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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 02:02:05 PM

Title: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 02:02:05 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg913%2F806%2FAitbks.png&hash=46c8d6df8581aa559985b8da9985ec95a0e673b1)

Another half under 20 points and .70 ppp to add to this miserable season. I'll be highly surprised if this team wins another game. Moments of competitive play, but too many things seem to be unraveling. And Marcus wasn't even in the top 10 of problems with this trainwreck.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: 8manpick on February 21, 2015, 02:04:31 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg913%2F806%2FAitbks.png&hash=46c8d6df8581aa559985b8da9985ec95a0e673b1)

Another half under 20 points and .70 ppp to add to this miserable season. I'll be highly surprised if this team wins another game. Moments of competitive play, but too many things seem to be unraveling. And Marcus wasn't even in the top 10 of problems with this trainwreck.
He never was
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: EMAWican on February 21, 2015, 02:05:26 PM
Lowest points scored in a game since Nebraska in 2005.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: ChiComCat on February 21, 2015, 02:08:25 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 02:09:22 PM
Lowest points scored in a game since Nebraska in 2005.

If I counted correctly, this is our 10th half of basketball where we failed to score more than 22 points this season.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2015, 02:09:51 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.
God I hope so. I won't be able to take another year like this.

#TheWesIsTheFuture

Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 02:10:13 PM
Am I reading that right that 45% of our attempts in the second half were threes? 
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: The Big Train on February 21, 2015, 02:10:19 PM
Lowest points scored in a game since Nebraska in 2005.

nope.  Texas on Jan 10, 2001
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:10:51 PM
Just think, a 20 loss season is coming.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:11:57 PM
Wooly never even lost 20 games....
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 02:12:10 PM
Just think, a 20 loss season is coming.

:sdeek:
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: BackPayne on February 21, 2015, 02:13:15 PM
We barely beat Baylor's 1st half. Holy suck!
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:13:28 PM
Tom Asbury never lost 20 games...
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: bones129 on February 21, 2015, 02:14:17 PM
A post-game oscar gem:  "Too many subs in at the same time."
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:16:10 PM
this might be the worst season in modern KSU bball history...
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 02:17:29 PM
In terms of efficiency differential, today's deficit of -0.46 points per possession is the 2nd worst loss since 2002. Only the UMKC game in 2003 was worse at -0.58 points per possession.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:17:53 PM
oh just more losses than any team since 1946
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: EMAWican on February 21, 2015, 02:18:04 PM
Lowest points scored in a game since Nebraska in 2005.

nope.  Texas on Jan 10, 2001
nope. Had 42 in '05 season against Nebraska and '04 Iowa State
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 02:21:07 PM
This is probably one the worst 20 losses in terms of efficiency for K-State since WW2. Maybe Top 10. Getting beat by nearly a half a point per possessions is really, really bad.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:24:28 PM
TURN OUT THE LIGHTS
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 02:28:30 PM
Wooly never even lost 20 games....

i don't understand your counting methodology.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: j rake on February 21, 2015, 02:30:29 PM
nice job w/ this adv stats headline.

i would have gone with "Baylor dominates, fans die of Bear-dom" ... but format seemed wrong.

Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:31:13 PM
Wooly never even lost 20 games....

i don't understand your counting methodology.
in a season..I might be missing something in my fury at the thought of it
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:34:25 PM
Wooly never even lost 20 games....

i don't understand your counting methodology.
in a season..I might be missing something in my fury at the thought of it
I was.  I was looking at the kenpom projected record and mistaking it for our current record.  I am an idiot.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 02:34:49 PM
are you counting the preseason scrimmage?  kstate is 13-15 now, with a maximum of 4 losses left, afaicc.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 02:35:57 PM
I was looking at the kenpom projected record and mistaking it for our current record.  I am an idiot.

you should apologize to weber!
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:37:24 PM
I was looking at the kenpom projected record and mistaking it for our current record.  I am an idiot.

you should apologize to weber!

never

:don'tcare:
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 02:37:59 PM
but you never even gave him a chance.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CHONGS on February 21, 2015, 02:41:20 PM
but you never even gave him a chance.
I did, last year.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 02:44:34 PM
I have faith.  We will lose in similar fashion to KU Monday and by prob 20  to someone else yet this season. 
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 02:45:36 PM
Was this our most complete game as far as being completely inept on both sides of the ball?
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: The Big Train on February 21, 2015, 02:47:21 PM
the absolute worst thing that could happen would be for us to beat ku.  oscar is gonna push hard for playing hard for one more game just to save his own ass i fear.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 21, 2015, 02:49:16 PM
the absolute worst thing that could happen would be for us to beat ku.  oscar is gonna push hard for playing hard for one more game just to save his own ass i fear.

Don't think he can pull that off this time.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 02:49:39 PM
I hope walk on plays a eff load.  Also, tre.  Like all game
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Super fan#99 on February 21, 2015, 02:50:25 PM
the absolute worst thing that could happen would be for us to beat ku.  oscar is gonna push hard for playing hard for one more game just to save his own ass i fear.
If they play well it will be in spite of oscar.  Buuuut we're probably going to lose by 20 so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 21, 2015, 02:51:20 PM
the absolute worst thing that could happen would be for us to beat ku.  oscar is gonna push hard for playing hard for one more game just to save his own ass i fear.

Don't think he can pull that off this time.

The team certainly looks like it has given up. Not much you can do about that.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 02:51:24 PM
have the post game oscar comments come out yet? 
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 02:51:57 PM
Slim pickings.  He tripped over himself a bunch and basically sounded at a complete loss.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 21, 2015, 02:56:50 PM
Slim pickings.  He tripped over himself a bunch and basically sounded at a complete loss.

Some weird rambling recount of various plays in the second half
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 02:59:55 PM
He is supposed to be a big X and O guy but had next to zero coherent thoughts or recollections of what the eff just happened.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 03:01:15 PM
Didn't frank used to have some players available for  comment after games?  maybe I'm just remembering incorrectly.  I thought pullen's I won't play on NIT came from one of those.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 03:02:58 PM
Yep.  Twitter has some Gip quotes.  Basically just tossing himself and other players under oscar's bus saying that literally no one is giving max effort, him included.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2015, 03:03:09 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 21, 2015, 03:04:29 PM
Gip dropped some truth
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Mr Bread on February 21, 2015, 03:15:18 PM
Yep.  Twitter has some Gip quotes.  Basically just tossing himself and other players under oscar's bus saying that literally no one is giving max effort, him included.

He should say why he isn'personally giving it his all.  Maybe it's for the reader to decide.   
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Rock Lobster on February 21, 2015, 03:18:19 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.

I'm mad at OU right now.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: CNS on February 21, 2015, 03:18:52 PM
A good old fashioned blame off is what this team needs.  We could set up a bracket and let the coaches play too.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Mr Bread on February 21, 2015, 03:21:14 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.

I'm mad at OU right now.

You should be mad at Marcus.  It's entirely his fault those wins happened.  #isthiswhatyouwantedmarcus #huh
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Rock Lobster on February 21, 2015, 03:25:07 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.

I'm mad at OU right now.

You should be mad at Marcus.  It's entirely his fault those wins happened.  #isthiswhatyouwantedmarcus #huh

True. Marcus, you shouldn't behave like that. #ThisIsOnYouMyMan
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Steffy08 on February 21, 2015, 03:56:23 PM
All we needed to do was to hold Baylor to 2 points in the second half, and we would've won this game.

Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 21, 2015, 04:09:07 PM
I feel bad for Gip. He deserved so much better than this. Sometimes we forget these guys moved far from home to represent our university on the court. He's always been a competitor and done about as well as expected with the talent he has.

He deserves more than this garbage fire.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 04:09:54 PM
So does Nino.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: SdK on February 21, 2015, 04:11:03 PM
Yeah. I hate it for Gip. In time, I hope he will remember the better times. I feel less bad for Nino for some reason.

#TheWesIsTheFuture
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 04:16:35 PM
Was this our most complete game as far as being completely inept on both sides of the ball?

It was the 2nd worst game in the last 14 seasons, so yeah.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 04:18:29 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.

Yeah, I didn't think it would get this bad. This is going to be worse than his collapse at Illinois 2012.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 04:18:55 PM
if only they could manage to combine the first half defense with the second half offense in a single half.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Trim on February 21, 2015, 04:33:17 PM
So does Nino.

Nope!
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: AndrewVonLintel on February 21, 2015, 04:43:53 PM
I underestimated oscar.  I didn't think there was anyway he could get fired this season and he just might get it done yet.

yeah I didn't think he could do it, either.

Yeah, I didn't think it would get this bad. This is going to be worse than his collapse at Illinois 2012.


He was riding the National Championship appearance pretty much the whole time at Illinois.  He took a much better situation at Illinois and screwed it up.  (No offense to Rodney, Angel, Jordan, Shane and Will but yeah).

He was losing his luster and then he is fired which of course drops you down another peg or two. Mr. Bread warned us it would be bad and probably worse than Illinois and I have agreed with that opinion. At least Nebraska got Riley before Oregon State fired him :ROFL:
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Benja on February 21, 2015, 04:44:49 PM
No but seriously beating Ku somehow needs to be avoided at all costs
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: BackPayne on February 21, 2015, 05:10:44 PM
Eliminate the home court advantage.  Take a sign that reads "Shhh. Let's get oscar fired."
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 05:18:07 PM
Well, at least oscar isn't a full blown fool's gold guy.

Quote
“You have to make some threes,” Weber said. “Oklahoma State came in here last week and made threes. When we have played well against them we made threes. You can’t go 1 for 16.”

Gip wasn't happy...

Quote
“Nobody is on the same page,” said senior K-State forward Thomas Gipson after scoring a team-high 11 points. “That is just what happens when you are not on the same page. You get distant from each other and you don’t play as a team. You get beat by 27.”

This result stung Gipson in a way others have not. He showed more frustration than usual, calling out everyone on the roster, including himself. He doesn’t think anyone is playing with the effort it takes to win.

“It’s frustrating that we lost, period,” Gipson said. “But for them to beat us by 27 points, that means we just laid down at the end and let them do whatever they wanted to do. That is not good for us. That is not how K-State basketball does it.”

When asked to describe the mood of K-State’s postgame locker room, he simply shook his head.

“I can’t,” Gipson said. “I don’t know, but, for me, I’m mad. I can’t speak for everybody else. (I’m mad) because the season is not good right now and this is my last year.”

And Jevon, welp...

Quote
“It gets old and it gets kind of frustrating, but we are just going through growing pains,” said sophomore K-State guard Jevon Thomas after scoring six points. “Everything is not going to be perfect. This happens. This is basketball. You are going to go through a down season and you are going to go through down time.

“You just have to learn from it. I understand next year if we go through the same things something has to be changed. But we are young and this is stuff we have to go through.”

Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: catzacker on February 21, 2015, 05:22:07 PM
Goddamn I remember when we had a point guard who said he wouldn't play in the NIT.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: yoman on February 21, 2015, 05:27:17 PM
Goddamn I remember when we had a point guard who said he wouldn't play in the NIT.

Plus side: based on that response, Jevon never will either. We won't qualify.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 21, 2015, 05:27:50 PM
Jevon is as bad at conveying thought as he is at playing basketball.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 21, 2015, 05:32:52 PM
I wonder if Jevon knows that this team isn't really all that young? Everybody in his class has been a major contributor through two entire seasons of college bball at this point. Edwards and Hurt are juniors. Gip and Nino are seniors. Bolden is a third year sophomore. Malek and Tre have been getting more time, but that's because we're rough ridin' terrible, not because they are a part of some kind of youth movement. This must be how oscar has been trying to keep the team from falling apart, convincing them that this is all because they're a young team.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on February 21, 2015, 05:33:48 PM


Quote
This result stung Gipson in a way others have not. He showed more frustration than usual, calling out everyone on the roster, including himself. He doesn’t think anyone is playing with the effort it takes to win.


Gip takes responsibility. Why does oscar refuse to?
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on February 21, 2015, 05:48:33 PM


Quote
This result stung Gipson in a way others have not. He showed more frustration than usual, calling out everyone on the roster, including himself. He doesn’t think anyone is playing with the effort it takes to win.


Gip takes responsibility. Why does oscar refuse to?

...because he's a human being with very unpalatable character flaws.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: nicname on February 21, 2015, 06:23:41 PM
I know it's bad when I don't even want to look at the stats.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 08:30:55 PM
Going back to 2001, K-State has played 475 basketball games.

During that time, K-State has given up a points per possession differential of -0.40 ppp 7 times.

Today's was the 2nd worst, at -0.47 ppp.

Additionally, 4 of those 7 losses have come in the last 2 seasons.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: michigancat on February 21, 2015, 09:05:08 PM
Going back to 2001, K-State has played 475 basketball games.

During that time, K-State has given up a points per possession differential of -0.40 ppp 7 times.

Today's was the 2nd worst, at -0.47 ppp.

Additionally, 4 of those 7 losses have come in the last 2 seasons.
:sdeek:
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: bones129 on February 21, 2015, 09:33:20 PM
This is so depressing.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 09:42:08 PM
oscar and his teams are so weird though. Even this year, we have 6 wins against kenpom top 50 teams, 3 against the top 20. I don't know how he can have wins that good and still have the losses he has; both blowouts like today and bad losses like Texas Southern and Northern Colorado.

By comparison, in his last 5 years, Wooly had 11 Top 50 wins, 2 against Top 20 teams.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Cire on February 21, 2015, 09:55:53 PM
Kenpom sucks this year
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 21, 2015, 10:08:44 PM

Kenpom sucks this year

Then all metrics must suck this year, because the numbers don't vary much. Plus, the Cats are 90, which is about right.

And if kenpom sucks this year, it has to suck every year.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 10:16:41 PM
oscar and his teams are so weird though. Even this year, we have 6 wins against kenpom top 50 teams, 3 against the top 20. I don't know how he can have wins that good and still have the losses he has; both blowouts like today and bad losses like Texas Southern and Northern Colorado.

ou went to overtime today against tech.  they aren't as different as the rankings suggest.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: j rake on February 21, 2015, 10:26:53 PM
oscar and his teams are so weird though. Even this year, we have 6 wins against kenpom top 50 teams, 3 against the top 20. I don't know how he can have wins that good and still have the losses he has; both blowouts like today and bad losses like Texas Southern and Northern Colorado.

ou went to overtime today against tech.  they aren't as different as the rankings suggest.

if ou played k-state in the b12 tourney they'd be a 6-7 pt favorite. that's a pretty big difference.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 10:41:26 PM
if ou played k-state in the b12 tourney they'd be a 6-7 pt favorite. that's a pretty big difference.

can you easily research what the avg point spread would be for a neutral site kenpom 10 v kenpom 90 over the last decade?
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: j rake on February 21, 2015, 11:32:16 PM
if ou played k-state in the b12 tourney they'd be a 6-7 pt favorite. that's a pretty big difference.

can you easily research what the avg point spread would be for a neutral site kenpom 10 v kenpom 90 over the last decade?

year to year, a 10 vs 90 matchup will be a difference of 7-9 points on neutral. last year, probably closer to 8. this year, maybe 7.5 or so.

k-state played ou well both times. but i obviously don't think these teams are similar at all. ou is far more efficient on both ends of the floor than k-state, particularly in league play, and it's not close. oklahoma on its best day beat texas, iowa state, wvu, baylor and okla st by double digits. k-state on its best day is incapable of doing the same.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 21, 2015, 11:47:22 PM
if in most years it's 7-9 points and this year it's 6-7, that seems like a meaningful difference.  but you also said it was 7.5.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on February 21, 2015, 11:57:48 PM
TURN OUT THE LIGHTS

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtGxusvUT3k
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2015, 12:00:47 AM
Us sweeping OU is a lot like OU sweeping us in 2012
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: Stevesie60 on February 22, 2015, 12:02:01 AM
Us sweeping OU is a lot like OU sweeping us in 2012

I think it's like Colorado sweeping us in 2011.
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: michigancat on February 22, 2015, 12:03:25 AM
Us sweeping OU is a lot like OU sweeping us in 2012

I think it's like Colorado sweeping us in 2011.
No, that team was much better than us this year and 2012 OU
Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: j rake on February 22, 2015, 12:03:47 AM
if in most years it's 7-9 points and this year it's 6-7, that seems like a meaningful difference.  but you also said it was 7.5.

i said okla would be a 6-7 point favorite over k-state in the big 12 tourney, which is held in kansas city. k-state gets a small bump for presumed homecourt advantage.

obviously, you can extract HCA from previous games played this year (OU was -3.5 @ KSU and -12 vs KSU) and get to that 7.5-8 range very easily.

Title: Re: Bearly competing; Baylor ADV
Post by: sys on February 22, 2015, 12:47:28 AM
i said okla would be a 6-7 point favorite over k-state in the big 12 tourney, which is held in kansas city. k-state gets a small bump for presumed homecourt advantage.

got it.  still, 7.5 is on the low end of the range you list as typical.