goemaw.com

TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 03:12:20 PM

Title: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 03:12:20 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg673%2F1479%2F4JadRT.png&hash=94c11aaa81e0be9be094f04a9d341f48ffaab1cd)

Pretty much what we all expected, though the first half was really bad. Foster and Gip showed some fight. Nino needs to get healthy. Edwards and Hurt need to figure out how to play again. Malek plays really hard but isn't there yet. We have 2 point guards.

Pretty much have to win twice this week to keep postseason hope alive. And I mean any type of postseason, even if you don't care for some of it.

Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Skipper44 on January 31, 2015, 03:20:04 PM
I think you missed the word "bad" at the end of the first paragraph
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 03:23:04 PM
pretty good defense in the first!
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 03:23:36 PM
pretty good defense in the first!

Yes!

And that TO%!
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 03:25:50 PM
pretty good defense in the first!

Yes!

And that TO%!

pretty amazing, really
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 03:31:19 PM
And I really only think we need to beat TTU to still have a shot at NCAA's. Still lots of oppy's for quality wins.

http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=34331.msg1305843#msg1305843
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 31, 2015, 04:02:11 PM
We should only do box out drills and mikan drills at our next practice. We should have won that rough ridin' game and I expect us to win at home against these assclowns.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 31, 2015, 05:50:48 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 06:12:56 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year

I will admit that I always get pissed at refs when we play in Allen more than I do at any other time. I like never get mad at the refs during other games, but I get soooo pissed at the Allen games.

Still, it's never the reason we lose.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Skipper44 on January 31, 2015, 06:16:11 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year

I will admit that I always get pissed at refs when we play in Allen more than I do at any other time. I like never get mad at the refs during other games, but I get soooo pissed at the Allen games.

Still, it's never the reason we lose.
Beasley's 2nd and Bill's second fouls might be the only exception to that
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 31, 2015, 06:55:57 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year

They carried water for ku, per usual
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Trogdor on January 31, 2015, 07:56:07 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year

I will admit that I always get pissed at refs when we play in Allen more than I do at any other time. I like never get mad at the refs during other games, but I get soooo pissed at the Allen games.

Still, it's never the reason we lose.

Was present for the game. Thought the officiating was pretty solid.

The home crowd was pretty sour when Graham got T'ed up tho. They thought the refs were out to get them.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2015, 07:57:09 PM
I think our fans are getting better at not blaming refs when we lose in Allen every year

I will admit that I always get pissed at refs when we play in Allen more than I do at any other time. I like never get mad at the refs during other games, but I get soooo pissed at the Allen games.

Still, it's never the reason we lose.

Was present for the game. Thought the officiating was pretty solid.

The home crowd was pretty sour when Graham got T'ed up tho. They thought the refs were out to get them.

BOOO!
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: pvegs on January 31, 2015, 08:03:48 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg673%2F1479%2F4JadRT.png&hash=94c11aaa81e0be9be094f04a9d341f48ffaab1cd)

Pretty much what we all expected, though the first half was really bad. Foster and Gip showed some fight. Nino needs to get healthy. Edwards and Hurt need to figure out how to play again. Malek plays really hard but isn't there yet. We have 2 point guards.

Pretty much have to win twice this week to keep postseason hope alive. And I mean any type of postseason, even if you don't care for some of it.

Was the 2nd half our best offensive half of Big 12 play?
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 31, 2015, 08:19:31 PM
dunno where this goes, so I'm putting it here. Date of our 10th loss, by season:

2015: January 31
2014: March 3 (9 Seed)
2013: Only lost 8 (4 seed)
2012: March 8* (8 seed)
2011: March 10* (5 seed)
2010: Only lost 8 (2 seed)
2009: March 3 (NIT)
2008: March 1 (11 Seed)
2007: Feb. 27 (NIT)
2006: Feb 22
2005: Feb 19
2004: Feb 14
2003: Feb 8
2002: Jan 26

Only 1 team post Wooly (Huggins 2006-07 team) had its 10th loss before March, and that was 2 days before March. You have to go back to 2002 to find another team with 10 losses before February 1st, and that was a Wooly team.

This team blows. I'm tired of people making excuses for oscar. If you think he gets a mulligan year, because of the Dr. Pepper, that's fine But many of our fans act like he's about to turn the corner, when the reality is that he is on pace for the worst season in 13 years of K-State basketball. Is the collection of talent THAT much different from Wooly teams? Marcus is a better guard than Wooly ever had, but outside of that, what separates this group from say, the 2005 team?

2005 starters:
Massey
Cartier
Fred Peete**
Clent Stewart
Lance Harris

Bench:
J-Dub <---- :love:
Hayden**
Hughes
Curtis Allen**
Sky Thomas
Canby

The 2005 starters were better IMO, 2015 bench is far superior.

I'm not saying oscar is a coach that is equally as bad as Wooly, but really, this year's group isn't that different, in talent and record from some of Jim's teams. This season is boring and sucky, I'm completely uninterested and apathetic, and I don't see much hope for better years with this group and oscar. I used to plan my Saturday around KSU hoops, and didn't miss a minute. This year, I haven't watched a game start to finish in Big XII play except the home game with Baylor. Even if we make the tourney (lol), there's no chance of this group making the sweet 16. I want a reason to be passionate about Cat hoops, and I can't think of one.

*Big XII Tourney
** Frank'd
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2015, 08:34:19 PM
Have you considered the scheduling
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 31, 2015, 08:40:37 PM
Have you considered the scheduling

yes. 10 losses is 10 losses though. People keep bringing up a tough schedule, but I find that talking point over stated. Tennessee and Pitt are very average teams. Honestly outside of Arizona, what good team did we play in the non-con? Just because I've heard of a team, doesn't make it a tough game. I mean, Bradley is 7-16 and we had to hang on to win by 3 at home.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2015, 08:53:05 PM
Have you considered the scheduling

yes. 10 losses is 10 losses though. People keep bringing up a tough schedule. Tennessee and Pitt are very average teams. Honestly outside of Arizona, what good team did we play in the non-con? Just because I've heard of a team, doesn't make it a tough game. I mean, Bradley is 7-16 and we had to hang on to win by 3 at home.

The wooly non cons were against teams like university of Denver.  This team sucks but comparing when they got their tenth loss to a wooly team doesn't seem to be apples to apples.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 08:57:49 PM
Have you considered the scheduling

yes. 10 losses is 10 losses though. People keep bringing up a tough schedule. Tennessee and Pitt are very average teams. Honestly outside of Arizona, what good team did we play in the non-con? Just because I've heard of a team, doesn't make it a tough game. I mean, Bradley is 7-16 and we had to hang on to win by 3 at home.

The wooly non cons were against teams like university of Denver.  This team sucks but comparing when they got their tenth loss to a wooly team doesn't seem to be apples to apples.
You can use kenpom ratings instead. We're currently at 74. Wooly's last four teams?

88
72
90
68

So the comparison's pretty fair.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: CNS on January 31, 2015, 09:04:14 PM
You could use CNS Interest ratings too.

This team is a 2.7.

Woolys last 4 teams:
2.5
1.9
2.7
1.4

Again, holds up
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: CNS on January 31, 2015, 09:06:46 PM
Note: anything below a 3 usually means I read a book while quasi watching th game
 
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on January 31, 2015, 09:24:06 PM
KSU lost by 11 today.

Wooly's last 3 teams in AFH:
1/14/04: KU 73 KSU 67
3/5/05: KU 72 KSU 65
1/14/06 KU 55 KSU 59

So the last Wooly 3 years, average score in AFH: KU 67 KSU 64.

Somehow we've bought this line that the games in AFH have to start out with us down 15 right away because they have an intimidating intro video, yet one of the worst coaches the Big XII has ever seen managed to go there 3 times in a row, with lousy teams, and play close games.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: wetwillie on January 31, 2015, 09:26:47 PM
Have you considered the scheduling

yes. 10 losses is 10 losses though. People keep bringing up a tough schedule. Tennessee and Pitt are very average teams. Honestly outside of Arizona, what good team did we play in the non-con? Just because I've heard of a team, doesn't make it a tough game. I mean, Bradley is 7-16 and we had to hang on to win by 3 at home.

The wooly non cons were against teams like university of Denver.  This team sucks but comparing when they got their tenth loss to a wooly team doesn't seem to be apples to apples.
You can use kenpom ratings instead. We're currently at 74. Wooly's last four teams?

88
72
90
68

So the comparison's pretty fair.

I was comparing SOS, I think you misread my post
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 31, 2015, 09:35:23 PM
Have you considered the scheduling

yes. 10 losses is 10 losses though. People keep bringing up a tough schedule. Tennessee and Pitt are very average teams. Honestly outside of Arizona, what good team did we play in the non-con? Just because I've heard of a team, doesn't make it a tough game. I mean, Bradley is 7-16 and we had to hang on to win by 3 at home.

The wooly non cons were against teams like university of Denver.  This team sucks but comparing when they got their tenth loss to a wooly team doesn't seem to be apples to apples.
You can use kenpom ratings instead. We're currently at 74. Wooly's last four teams?

88
72
90
68

So the comparison's pretty fair.

I was comparing SOS, I think you misread my post
ok
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 09:37:54 PM
No one is legitimately making excuses for oscar and this season has been mostly terrible. Not fireable yet, but if he strings them together, them yes he will get fired. I have no doubt about that.

My hope from this season came from the wins over OU, BU, and OSU. A stretch of 3 quality wins Wooly never put together in a single season, let alone a two week span. However, the loss to WVU was one this team probably can't absorb after the terrible stretch in December, so yeah I get the disappointment. The apathy part is your own choice, though it is one I somewhat understand. I won't ever be apathetic like that though.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: pvegs on January 31, 2015, 09:42:19 PM
dunno where this goes, so I'm putting it here. Date of our 10th loss, by season:

2015: January 31
2014: March 3 (9 Seed)
2013: Only lost 8 (4 seed)
2012: March 8* (8 seed)
2011: March 10* (5 seed)
2010: Only lost 8 (2 seed)
2009: March 3 (NIT)
2008: March 1 (11 Seed)
2007: Feb. 27 (NIT)
2006: Feb 22
2005: Feb 19
2004: Feb 14
2003: Feb 8
2002: Jan 26

Only 1 team post Wooly (Huggins 2006-07 team) had its 10th loss before March, and that was 2 days before March. You have to go back to 2002 to find another team with 10 losses before February 1st, and that was a Wooly team.

This team blows. I'm tired of people making excuses for oscar. If you think he gets a mulligan year, because of the Dr. Pepper, that's fine But many of our fans act like he's about to turn the corner, when the reality is that he is on pace for the worst season in 13 years of K-State basketball. Is the collection of talent THAT much different from Wooly teams? Marcus is a better guard than Wooly ever had, but outside of that, what separates this group from say, the 2005 team?

2005 starters:
Massey
Cartier
Fred Peete**
Clent Stewart
Lance Harris

Bench:
J-Dub <---- :love:
Hayden**
Hughes
Curtis Allen**
Sky Thomas
Canby

The 2005 starters were better IMO, 2015 bench is far superior.

I'm not saying oscar is a coach that is equally as bad as Wooly, but really, this year's group isn't that different, in talent and record from some of Jim's teams. This season is boring and sucky, I'm completely uninterested and apathetic, and I don't see much hope for better years with this group and oscar. I used to plan my Saturday around KSU hoops, and didn't miss a minute. This year, I haven't watched a game start to finish in Big XII play except the home game with Baylor. Even if we make the tourney (lol), there's no chance of this group making the sweet 16. I want a reason to be passionate about Cat hoops, and I can't think of one.

*Big XII Tourney
** Frank'd

My heart tells me this collection is more talented, but I think you're right CF3. We just don't have the talent we thought we had. Edwards, Hurt, Jevon, Wes, all guys I thought could be really solid but really only Foster, Gip and Nino are good to even decent Big 12 players. Everyone else is a piece or just plain bad. 
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Trogdor on January 31, 2015, 09:44:57 PM
Its worth noting that Hurt is probably our 2nd best 3 ball threat
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 09:46:38 PM
Thomas not living up to oscar's hopes as a legit point and Edwards struggles have been the two biggest disappointments this season and have really hurt this team.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 31, 2015, 09:48:31 PM
I suppose Bolden being worse than the walk on guys is up there too. oscar's evaluation of transfers is about the opposite of Hoi's.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: pvegs on January 31, 2015, 10:01:37 PM
Thomas not living up to oscar's hopes as a legit point and Edwards struggles have been the two biggest disappointments this season and have really hurt this team.

Yeah, Hurt/Bolden sucking is 3rd since we have no front court depth beyond Gip.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Pete on January 31, 2015, 10:01:57 PM

I suppose Bolden being worse than the walk on guys is up there too. oscar's evaluation of transfers is about the opposite of Hoi's.

I don't know if this is true.  It assumes oscar is landing his first choices, which I doubt very, very much.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 31, 2015, 10:03:35 PM
I suppose Bolden being worse than the walk on guys is up there too. oscar's evaluation of transfers talent in general is about the opposite of Hoi's.

I mean, the staff was startled at how good Foster was when he got on campus. Even when they hit on a player, they still misevaluate. Unless everyone but Foster is having a horrendous sophomore slump (or junior slump), then oscar has recruited one legitimately good basketball player, and the rest are role players at best. Three recruiting classes. You can throw the first one out if you want to, but good coaches always seem to be able to snag a juco player in the spring that was overlooked and plug them into the rotation. I think being at K-State is really highlighting what a bad judge of talent that oscar really is. I mean, people complained about his recruiting at Illinois, but when you're landing a bunch of four star kids and a five star every once in a while, it's tough to eff up too badly. This isn't really directed at you _Fan, your post just reminded me of how shitty oscar's recruiting has been here. His next class better be dynamite or we are all going to watch this ship sink, and it will probably happen slowly and painfully.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Steffy08 on January 31, 2015, 10:07:47 PM
Just let the season play out.

I, for one, was just happy that Niño was playing today.  Provides some hope.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2015, 10:17:30 PM
Just let the season play out.

I, for one, was just happy that Niño was playing today.  Provides some hope.

This post really says it all.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: JohnCurrie is Weird/Gross on January 31, 2015, 11:18:38 PM
I've been thinking a lot about how old I'll be when we will be good again (possibly).  I'm 29 and I suspect oscar will get fired in about 4 years.  That is so depressing to have to deal with oscar for the better part of a decade and my kids will be born into oscar. Chilling.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Pete on January 31, 2015, 11:18:54 PM

Just let the season play out.

I, for one, was just happy that Niño was playing today.  Provides some hope.

This post really says it all.

Trim, we could still win the Big 12 tourney and then all of our goals are achievable!
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Trim on January 31, 2015, 11:29:37 PM

Just let the season play out.

I, for one, was just happy that Niño was playing today.  Provides some hope.

This post really says it all.

Trim, we could still win the Big 12 tourney and then all of our goals are achievable!

Yep, I used to always tell myself back in the day that no matter what happens through February, we just have to win our last 10!
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Panjandrum on February 01, 2015, 12:10:28 AM
Just let the season play out.

I, for one, was just happy that Niño was playing today.  Provides some hope.

Jesus Christ.  How in the

 :buh-bye:
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 01, 2015, 10:23:19 AM
The conference is a lot better top to bottom now than it was under Wooly, Huggs or Frank. CU, Nubb, BU, aTm weren't even trying and usually only one of MU/ISU was good at the same time. Wooly never played anyone with a pulse in the non-con.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on February 01, 2015, 10:37:37 AM
steffy is a pretty decent sock. the tilde.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Cire on February 01, 2015, 10:39:00 AM
We got no calls underneath in the first 10 minutes.  It was fine though
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: EMAWzified on February 01, 2015, 02:21:14 PM
The conference is a lot better top to bottom now than it was under Wooly, Huggs or Frank. CU, Nubb, BU, aTm weren't even trying and usually only one of MU/ISU was good at the same time. Wooly never played anyone with a pulse in the non-con.
The bottom teams might be better, but those at the top are worse. Talents down, other than at KU. I don't see any Durants, Griffins, Alridges or DeAndre Jordans out there.
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on February 01, 2015, 03:28:20 PM
The conference is a lot better top to bottom now than it was under Wooly, Huggs or Frank. CU, Nubb, BU, aTm weren't even trying and usually only one of MU/ISU was good at the same time. Wooly never played anyone with a pulse in the non-con.


Big 12 (X)       Big 12 (XII)         Advantage
K-State     v       K-State                     X
KU            v         KU                      same
ISU           v         ISU                     same
UT             v         UT                       XII
OU            v         OU                       XII
OSU          v         oSu                      XII
Tech          v         Tech                    XII
Baylor        v         Baylor                  X

NEW          v         OLD
WVU                     aTm & MU           close but X
TCU                      NU & CU               XII
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: sonofdaxjones on February 01, 2015, 03:56:12 PM
Even if we're lucky enough to make the NCAA tourney, you can't do anything in it unless you good guard play and 4 out of our 5 guards suck.

Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: wetwillie on February 01, 2015, 04:28:21 PM
Do you have to have good guard play for NIT Dax?
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on February 01, 2015, 04:44:28 PM

Do you have to have good guard play for NIT Dax?

One if the best guards in K-State history went 1-1 in the NIT.

:dunno:
Title: Re: Another SELF-deprecating loss in Lawrence; KU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on February 01, 2015, 08:06:42 PM
The conference is a lot better top to bottom now than it was under Wooly, Huggs or Frank. CU, Nubb, BU, aTm weren't even trying and usually only one of MU/ISU was good at the same time. Wooly never played anyone with a pulse in the non-con.


Big 12 (X)       Big 12 (XII)         Advantage
K-State     v       K-State                     X
KU            v         KU                      same
ISU           v         ISU                     same
UT             v         UT                       XII
OU            v         OU                       XII
OSU          v         oSu                      XII
Tech          v         Tech                    XII
Baylor        v         Baylor                  X

NEW          v         OLD
WVU                     aTm & MU           close but X
TCU                      NU & CU               XII

I'll give you credit, it took a lot of effort to type something that stupid.