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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Kat Kid on January 07, 2015, 11:29:31 PM
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Peggy Po's
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Foster played well. He does not have enough touches and does not have enough plays run for him. oscar needs to start calling more set plays for Marcus. I counted 4 with a return of 9 points. He looked engaged for the most part, and went on a nice little stretch where he got hot, but we do not do enough to get him the ball. I hope he starts next game because Marcus looks motivated to me. This team needs him and I hope that we move forward with him as a guy getting 35 minutes a game and starting. Going back to the well for a 3rd straight game would be a mistake and a horrible miscalculation. The coaches need to give a little on this and assume that the message has been received. Considering how quickly everyone declared the end of the Marcus Foster era it was great to see that his demise may have been overestimated.
Wes is playing better and with more confidence.
Nino balled out he is playing his heart out for this team. I love him. He has done more than should have ever been asked of him and has brought effort, hustle and scrappiness to every possession. Good for him. He is my second favorite player.
Hurt/Bolden I liked the Defense/Offense sub pattern toward the end of the first half and they both put some quality minutes in with Bolden making a couple nice plays on defense and Hurt playing some nice minutes and getting to the line.
Edwards is starting to get within the speed of the game
Nancy Neg's
oscar I will try to keep this to what I see with my own eyes and not speculate as there has been plenty of that over the past few weeks. On the court oscar struggles to communicate with the players. He has so much nervous energy and is constantly yelling random crap and in the guys ears that I think they tune him out. That is my theory.
What I can know for sure is that our team is chronically unprepared for assignments out of free throws and timeouts. We are chronically unprepared for end of game situations, particularly situations that involve pressure on the ball. I am not talking about novel plays that are being thrown at us.
I am talking about a team that just went full court all out double the ball pressure and three guys turning and running back down in to the front court. I am talking about a full on panic at the end of the game by oscar and the team about who is supposed to be positioned where and what the assignments are after the free throws. It is bad.
A lot is made about how badly oscar has communicated in the media, the press conference when he first was announced, his goofy pre-game and halftime speeches. None of those really struck me as things that potentially made a big impact on the team either way. But I think there is a lot of evidence that his ineffective communication in-game is hurting this team.
Jevon and Nigel were sitting on the bench in crunch time with the other team putting on full court pressure. It is hard to think of a bigger indictment of our backcourt that oscar finally turned to Marcus and Wes. I will also note that they didn't turn the ball over during that sequence. I would much rather go with Marcus/Wes/Justin to start.
Gip is lost I think him getting yanked from games is not helping and our consistent inability to get him quality looks is hurting. But he screwed up two handoffs. TWICE we had turnovers off bad handoffs! He still panics when a double comes.
Our offense is bad There should be a sense of urgency to fix this. It is terrible. The turnovers are bad enough, but our motion does not create good looks. 4 out/Princeton with Hurt at the free throw line would be interesting to see. Running Foster off screens would be more fun to watch. oscar could call set plays all game and it would be better/more interesting. The motion is broken. Irreparably.
Rebounding and defense were better but still bad
Officiating lots of little pushes on drives called both ways, very choppy and uneven. It was poorly officiated both ways. Gary Maxwell was the problem but Gerry Pollard was not at his best either and he thinks he's God's gift to officiating so was equally annoying.
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You get tuned out when you try and micro manage the whole game. I mean FFS our guys should know how to some stuff without oscar telling them when to breath.
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Our offense is bad There should be a sense of urgency to fix this. It is terrible. The turnovers are bad enough, but our motion does not create good looks. 4 out/Princeton with Hurt at the free throw line would be interesting to see. Running Foster off screens would be more fun to watch. oscar could call set plays all game and it would be better/more interesting. The motion is broken. Irreparably.
This perfectly sums us up. The offense does not fit the personnel at all, I wish our coach would adjust.
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What I can know for sure is that our team is chronically unprepared for assignments out of free throws and timeouts. We are chronically unprepared for end of game situations, particularly situations that involve pressure on the ball. I am not talking about novel plays that are being thrown at us.
This. Absolutely this.
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Does anyone remember when Missouri sucked and just ran Thomas Gardner off screens for a year like he was Rip Wallace?
I propose we do the same with Marcus Foster.
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Does anyone remember when Missouri sucked and just ran Thomas Gardner off screens for a year like he was Rip Wallace?
I propose we do the same with Marcus Foster.
no one guy is bigger than the team
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Does anyone remember when Missouri sucked and just ran Thomas Gardner off screens for a year like he was Rip Wallace?
I propose we do the same with Marcus Foster.
no one guy is bigger than the team
MIR is correct. That said, Marcus is capable, if clicking on all physical and mental cylinders, to at least come close to carrying this team through tough situations.
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Does anyone remember when Missouri sucked and just ran Thomas Gardner off screens for a year like he was Rip Wallace?
I propose we do the same with Marcus Foster.
no one guy is bigger than the team
MIR is correct. That said, Marcus is capable, if clicking on all physical and mental cylinders, to at least come close to carrying this team through tough situations.
I get it, but this season is lost. Watching Marcus play Kobe would be entertaining, at least more so than the current abomination we call an offense.
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Guys, I was being sarcastic. I have been pretty vocal about oscar's crap offense and inflexibility as the biggest reason for all of our problems. I would love nothing more than to see our only consistent and legit offensive weapon put up 30 shots a game.
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Would love us to play faster
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Peggy Po's
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Foster played well. He does not have enough touches and does not have enough plays run for him. oscar needs to start calling more set plays for Marcus. I counted 4 with a return of 9 points. He looked engaged for the most part, and went on a nice little stretch where he got hot, but we do not do enough to get him the ball. I hope he starts next game because Marcus looks motivated to me. This team needs him and I hope that we move forward with him as a guy getting 35 minutes a game and starting. Going back to the well for a 3rd straight game would be a mistake and a horrible miscalculation. The coaches need to give a little on this and assume that the message has been received. Considering how quickly everyone declared the end of the Marcus Foster era it was great to see that his demise may have been overestimated.
I'd like to go back and watch some Rod from his senior season under oscar and look at some different ways that he was used that Marcus is getting and how much it has to do with strengths and weaknesses of the two players (not having Angel also definitely changes things)
Wes is playing better and with more confidence.
Loved Wes tonight, I liked his authority on the drive especially, whether dishing or finishing at the rim.
Nino balled out he is playing his heart out for this team. I love him. He has done more than should have ever been asked of him and has brought effort, hustle and scrappiness to every possession. Good for him. He is my second favorite player.
Absolutely. **** tho.
Hurt/Bolden I liked the Defense/Offense sub pattern toward the end of the first half and they both put some quality minutes in with Bolden making a couple nice plays on defense and Hurt playing some nice minutes and getting to the line.
Obviously foul-trouble forced this for the most part, but it was nice. I'd like to see Boldon's athleticism utilized more if at all possible, but he obviously has some limitations or he would be playing more.
Edwards is starting to get within the speed of the game
Yes. More later
Nancy Neg's
oscar I will try to keep this to what I see with my own eyes and not speculate as there has been plenty of that over the past few weeks. On the court oscar struggles to communicate with the players. He has so much nervous energy and is constantly yelling random crap and in the guys ears that I think they tune him out. That is my theory.
What I can know for sure is that our team is chronically unprepared for assignments out of free throws and timeouts. We are chronically unprepared for end of game situations, particularly situations that involve pressure on the ball. I am not talking about novel plays that are being thrown at us.
I am talking about a team that just went full court all out double the ball pressure and three guys turning and running back down in to the front court. I am talking about a full on panic at the end of the game by oscar and the team about who is supposed to be positioned where and what the assignments are after the free throws. It is bad.
A lot is made about how badly oscar has communicated in the media, the press conference when he first was announced, his goofy pre-game and halftime speeches. None of those really struck me as things that potentially made a big impact on the team either way. But I think there is a lot of evidence that his ineffective communication in-game is hurting this team.
Can't comment either way. You have great seats.
Jevon and Nigel were sitting on the bench in crunch time with the other team putting on full court pressure. It is hard to think of a bigger indictment of our backcourt that oscar finally turned to Marcus and Wes. I will also note that they didn't turn the ball over during that sequence. I would much rather go with Marcus/Wes/Justin to start.
oscar said something with regard to this in the press conference. It's in here somewhere, but I'm not going to wade through all the rambling.
"I was sweating. I feel bad for Jevon [Thomas]. You just hope that he makes that free throw because now you do not have to worry; you can leave him in there because we are better defensively. But, he has a tendency where he starts thinking, he breaks down on defense, he does not switch right away on the next play and we just said as a staff that until he gets confident and keeps his head poised, we have to see if somebody else will do it and get other people to the free throw line. Marcus [Foster] was good at the free throw line down the stretch. We were good enough, not great, at the free throw line down the stretch but good enough to get the win. I thought turnovers were real good in the first half. We took care of it and gave ourselves a chance. There was a little stretch there when we extended the lead up to eight or 10, and that is when Jevon threw it away, Marcus tried to split the defenders, and Marcus lost a handoff – we had three or four there. Thomas had a couple unlucky ones where a couple guys made good passes but they just went off the tip of his fingers. If we could just cut it down to where we are only having eight to 10 turnovers a game it would help us.”
Gip is lost I think him getting yanked from games is not helping and our consistent inability to get him quality looks is hurting. But he screwed up two handoffs. TWICE we had turnovers off bad handoffs! He still panics when a double comes.
I didn't really see this today. He did grab some pine early in the first half, but wasn't the rest of his limited time due to foul trouble? I thought he played like a man in the second as he has for most of the last two games. He, then Marcus and Nino have responded well to their Brucings imo. Took a little longer for Marcus and, in a less publicized version, Nino. The handoffs are maddening, but I don't really see this as a Thomas problem. I can't stand that portion of the offense. The whole team seems to turn it over tima dn time again. Other teams easily read it as well and often jump the damn handoff.
Our offense is bad There should be a sense of urgency to fix this. It is terrible. The turnovers are bad enough, but our motion does not create good looks. 4 out/Princeton with Hurt at the free throw line would be interesting to see. Running Foster off screens would be more fun to watch. oscar could call set plays all game and it would be better/more interesting. The motion is broken. Irreparably.
It's also boring. Big thing I noticed today was guys making things happen off the bounce. Foster, Thomas, Edwards and Wes all made things happen on the move, but why wait until there is under 10 on the shot clock? There are some athletes on this team "scared offensive schemes aren't doing this team any favors."
Rebounding and defense were better but still bad
Officiating lots of little pushes on drives called both ways, very choppy and uneven. It was poorly officiated both ways. Gary Maxwell was the problem but Gerry Pollard was not at his best either and he thinks he's God's gift to officiating so was equally annoying.
Also, yes, Trent Johnson does look like a turtle.
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Does anyone remember when Missouri sucked and just ran Thomas Gardner off screens for a year like he was Rip Wallace?
I propose we do the same with Marcus Foster.
no one guy is bigger than the team
Isn't that what oscar did with McGruder? Rod was had impeccable conditioning that I'm not sure Foster possesses, but there should be more of this. The back-to-back threes in the second half were a nice wrinkle and they tried to run that again the other direction, but it was snuffed out.
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We should run the Read and React offense.
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I think a lot of our problems on offense stem from the fact that oscar and his staff absolutely have no trust in their PGs. I also think that's a reason they have slowed the tempo, we were playing much faster to start the season.
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I would much rather go with Marcus/Wes/Justin to start.
Yes, this. At the very least, it creates matchup problems for the opposing defense, boosts the free throw shooting and improves the rebounding. It may have the by-product of improving the defense too by putting more length on the floor. If the turnovers are relatively stagnant either way, you do this and don't look back.
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I think a lot of our problems on offense stem from the fact that oscar and his staff absolutely have no trust in their PGs. I also think that's a reason they have slowed the tempo, we were playing much faster to start the season.
One of them has to go after this season, and we need to be scouring the JUCO ranks or something for a kid that can competently handle the ball and play solid defense.
I like The Flush a lot, but asking him to carry the load next year may be a bit much. I'm no fan of Thomas, but he has games where, statistically, he can contribute at a decent clip and limit turnovers.
I'm just not sure where Nigel fits after this year.
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Would love us to play faster
Who would push our faster pace? The guys you bench when pressure turns up?
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I think a lot of our problems on offense stem from the fact that oscar and his staff absolutely have no trust in their PGs. I also think that's a reason they have slowed the tempo, we were playing much faster to start the season.
I'm just not sure where Nigel fits after this year.
I think from his perspective this might be worth just sticking it out even if he isn't playing. Where is he really going to go?
I don't know that recruiting PG is worth the effort and we would be better served by just recruiting combo guards, swing and bigs.
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Would love us to play faster
Who would push our faster pace? The guys you bench when pressure turns up?
you can play faster based on where you throw the outlet passes and having more than one player receiving them. Plays like Wesley's coast to coast dunk was a good example of increasing pace of without passing to one of our two traditional "pure" PG's.
And a big positive of playing fast is that it's harder for the defense to pressure the ball. So yeah, I think it would help Jevon and Nigel a lot.
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It is hard to want a team that is pretty shitty at passing, as is, to increase pace by pass selection, though. Also, that would be little spurts throughout the game and not sustainable, imo. Still would end up with things getting caught up, often, and need guards force fill the holes 70% of the time, imo.
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It is hard to want a team that is pretty shitty at passing, as is, to increase pace by pass selection, though. Also, that would be little spurts throughout the game and not sustainable, imo. Still would end up with things getting caught up, often, and need guards force fill the holes 70% of the time, imo.
Increasing pace would make our shitty passing less of a weakness! Slowing pace forces half court sets with far more passes against a defense that is set and organized.
I'm not sure what you're talking about with the rest. I'm not suggesting playing different or fewer guards.
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the best way to play really fast is to cherry pick. hurt would be perf and defenses wouldn't know what hit them
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the best way to play really fast is to cherry pick. hurt would be perf and defenses wouldn't know what hit them
offensive efficiency through the roof
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yup + dunks
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dunks are the most efficient shot, not sure why we don't do them more often.
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not enough 'pickin
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dunks are the most efficient shot, not sure why we don't do them more often.
Yep, the run and dunk offense would be a great choice.
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The Run and Dunk Offense would recruit itself.
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no it wouldn't. not everyone likes to dunk.
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Would love us to play faster
Who would push our faster pace? The guys you bench when pressure turns up?
you can play faster based on where you throw the outlet passes and having more than one player receiving them. Plays like Wesley's coast to coast dunk was a good example of increasing pace of without passing to one of our two traditional "pure" PG's.
And a big positive of playing fast is that it's harder for the defense to pressure the ball. So yeah, I think it would help Jevon and Nigel a lot.
Absolutely agree, anyone but Gip, Hurt, Malek and Bolden need to bring the ball up the court on a defensive rebound, it drives me insane to watch Nino and especially Edwards waste time looking for our "pg" instead of getting up court so we can listen to oscar screech "MOTION! MOTION!" for 25 seconds and then get a crap shot or turnover.
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532-PICK
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There was a play last night when Edwards got a rebound and waited a few seconds for Jevon to come get it instead of just taking off himself. I remember being very pissed about this at the time. There is no reason that Foster, Edwards, or even Westicles should have to pass to Jevon/Nigel after a defensive rebound.
This team is too athletic to play at a slow pace. Our best 20 minutes of basketball all season was the 1st half vs. Purdue when we pressed the hell out of them.
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no it wouldn't. not everyone likes to dunk.
Has Nino ever dunked in a game? Serious question.
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no it wouldn't. not everyone likes to dunk.
Has Nino ever dunked in a game? Serious question.
he has a couple of dunks vs OSU last year, including a sweet follow dunk on a missed fast break layup IIRC
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There was a play last night when Edwards got a rebound and waited a few seconds for Jevon to come get it instead of just taking off himself. I remember being very pissed about this at the time. There is no reason that Foster, Edwards, or even Westicles should have to pass to Jevon/Nigel after a defensive rebound.
This team is too athletic to play at a slow pace. Our best 20 minutes of basketball all season was the 1st half vs. Purdue when we pressed the hell out of them.
We also excel at turning the ball over, so it kinda pick your poison.
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I would like to see us play a little faster, but I'm not sold our offense would be anymore efficient. I'd love to see the team that we saw in that first half against Purdue too, but that was a crazy combination of our lowest turnover% of the year combined with really good shooting. It also featured our worst half of defense in the 2nd half when Purdue scored at a crazy 1.63 PPP clip. It was a game that turned into an shootout and that has been the exception this year by far.
After playing a variety of paces in Hawaii that all featured terrible defense, I think our staff figured that if we didn't improve on defense we weren't going to win many games. TOs have still plagued this team, but continuing to let teams shoot 58% or better is the main thing that had to be fixed for any success. In many ways I think they had to rethink what they went into the season with; it seems our original approach was to play fast and "outscore" people, but our defense became so bad that this approach wasn't realistic. Unfortunately the transition to slower, defensive basketball became even uglier in late December. I'm not sure it will work out, but I'm sure we'll continue to see this approach throughout Big 12 play.
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You guys. Rebounds
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And just chasing the ball. There is no urgency what so ever.
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What the hell are you talking about, Greg? This isn't little league.
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@Kat Kid or @Rick... What are your thoughts on the t-shirt toss kid? What an arm, right??? That pump fake and then rifling it to the 20th row... :love:
He really seemed to get our crowd jazzed up, which in turn got our team fired up for a late 2nd half surge. This team and our fan base need more people like that moving forward! :emawkid:
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@Kat Kid or @Rick... What are your thoughts on the t-shirt toss kid? What an arm, right??? That pump fake and then rifling it to the 20th row... :love:
He really seemed to get our crowd jazzed up, which in turn got our team fired up for a late 2nd half surge. This team and our fan base need more people like that moving forward! :emawkid:
stud kid. no doubt.
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You guys. Rebounds
Rebounding is probably the thing this team does best (really).
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@Kat Kid or @Rick... What are your thoughts on the t-shirt toss kid? What an arm, right??? That pump fake and then rifling it to the 20th row... :love:
He really seemed to get our crowd jazzed up, which in turn got our team fired up for a late 2nd half surge. This team and our fan base need more people like that moving forward! :emawkid:
i actually know that kid. total stud kid and a second grader at marlatt. when he came out i told kk "holy crap that's _____. he's going to launch these things" or something to that affect and then he did. affect or effect there? not sure.
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chad may jr