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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 07, 2015, 10:32:59 PM

Title: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 07, 2015, 10:32:59 PM
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It was some uglied up <60 possession Bruceketball, but its a win. For this game at least, the mental gymnastics with Foster seem to have worked, plus a good 2nd half from Gip and decent play from Westicles. Thomas swung back the PG yo-yo with an okay 5 points, 4 assists, and only 1 TO. Nino was big on the boards and better, but still had some Ninoed up moments.

We're ugly shooting 2s (37.5%?), decent on 3s (only 23.8% attempts?), but the biggest thing was turning around Oboards in the 2nd half and finally a decent eFG% game. TCU isn't a great team, but they are shooting 53.3% coming into this one, so I'll take it.

Now a tough one at OU.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 07, 2015, 10:38:12 PM
Still way too many bad turnovers
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 07, 2015, 10:40:10 PM
we almost scored 60!

60!!!!!!
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 07, 2015, 10:46:16 PM
when i was watching the game i was saying to myself, i bet we shatter the 60 pt mark tonight so i mean, was i disappointed when we didn't?
a little bit, i'm not going to lie to you puds.  but hey man, 58 pts is 58 pts and 58 pts don't lie.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 07, 2015, 10:47:35 PM
Weber's new slogan should be "First to 50 Wins!"
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 07, 2015, 10:52:23 PM
truth is, offenses across cbb are struggling this year.  with the exception of a few teams (ND, Duke, UK) probably the ugliest basketball i've seen in a long time.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 07, 2015, 10:58:48 PM
Yeah, average efficiency last year in NCAAs was 1.04 ppp; its down to 1.00 this year.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: sys on January 07, 2015, 11:00:57 PM
average efficiency last year in NCAAs was 1.04 ppp; its down to 1.00 this year.

wow.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 07, 2015, 11:03:11 PM
speaking of ND, those guys are rough ridin' good.  let's hire their coach if oscar heads to the league.  his name is mike brey and he's really weird looking lol, who knows i bet he'd kill to be a kat koach.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 07, 2015, 11:16:02 PM
We talked about it in chat a bit but the pace this year is horrendous. I don't know why he thinks with this personnel the right play is to play slower, but all it does is further expose all of our weaknesses. It's so gross to watch.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 07, 2015, 11:18:48 PM
We're desperately missing sprads. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that or thinks he sucks is a racially biased.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MFW on January 07, 2015, 11:43:50 PM
We've got so much athletic talent on the floor and we completely waste it by having an inept offense. It's embarrassing watching guys like Edwards not have an opportunity to get to the rim. I used to hate the way Frank's offense ran, dribbling around the top of the key until the clock ran out, but this is just atrocious.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: The Big Train on January 07, 2015, 11:46:19 PM
we are 2-0 in games i have attended this year  :Woot:
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: bones129 on January 07, 2015, 11:52:53 PM
we are 2-0 in games i have attended this year  :Woot:

Let's find a way to get TBT to all the games. May be our only hope.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: The Big Train on January 07, 2015, 11:55:39 PM
We're desperately missing sprads. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that or thinks he sucks is a racially biased.

he was at the game tonight, even got on the kiss cam with his wife!
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 12:51:44 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 08, 2015, 01:15:53 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

No it wasn't, I didn't think he was cutting hard either. The only change is that he was making shots.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: nicname on January 08, 2015, 02:13:08 AM
truth is, offenses across cbb are struggling this year.  with the exception of a few teams (ND, Duke, UK) probably the ugliest basketball i've seen in a long time.

Under 20 points has always been an anomaly. I feel like I'm seeing it all the time this season. Probably due to K-State suffering the fate multiple times, but I'm seeing it all over the place.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: mocat on January 08, 2015, 07:39:47 AM
We're desperately missing sprads. Anyone who refuses to acknowledge that or thinks he sucks is a racially biased.

You're the first person to mention that on this blog, it definitely hasn't been discussed yet, so you must be the sole non racist poster on here
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: TownieCat on January 08, 2015, 08:44:38 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

No it wasn't, I didn't think he was cutting hard either. The only change is that he was making shots.

The biggest change in Marcus last night was he attacked the basket on a few occasions. This got him a couple of layups and several FT opportunities. It was nice to see him be something other than a jump shooter.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 08:48:31 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

No it wasn't, I didn't think he was cutting hard either. The only change is that he was making shots.

The biggest change in Marcus last night was he attacked the basket on a few occasions. This got him a couple of layups and several FT opportunities. It was nice to see him be something other than a jump shooter.
And he was doing it without ball screens at times (I think he's more effective without one). Was good to see.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 08, 2015, 08:49:06 AM
The eye test in catching pieces of multiple games last night was that the offense absolutely blew in a lot of games across the college basketball spectrum.

I am sure for some games the granular stats will say something different, but from a viewing pleasure perspective, it was ugly as hell last night.

Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 08, 2015, 08:53:13 AM
I thought Marcus played better defense last night. He wasn't playing it all before, though.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 08:55:33 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

He definitely had stretches where Marcus was better, but he does not put much effort in defensively.  Some of that is we don't extend our man pressure very far and we switch on every screen.

As far as offense, that should be most possessions.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: TownieCat on January 08, 2015, 08:56:34 AM
Several games were played in the 50s or low 60s last night. Syracuse beat GA Tech 46-45   :zzz:
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: slobber on January 08, 2015, 08:59:21 AM
I didn't think Marcus looked noticeably different than previous games, other than the fact that he played more minutes than the past two games. I'm being serious, and I realize that others disagree with me, but I thought the dumbasses pbp and color guys were trying way too hard to claim how much more engaged Marcus was. 


Gonna win 'em all!
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 09:08:48 AM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

He definitely had stretches where Marcus was better, but he does not put much effort in defensively.  Some of that is we don't extend our man pressure very far and we switch on every screen.

As far as offense, that should be most possessions.
I'd like to see way more transition 3's
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 09:09:20 AM
I didn't think Marcus looked noticeably different than previous games, other than the fact that he played more minutes than the past two games. I'm being serious, and I realize that others disagree with me, but I thought the dumbasses pbp and color guys were trying way too hard to claim how much more engaged Marcus was. 


Gonna win 'em all!
I agree with you, slobber
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 08, 2015, 09:48:46 AM
Marcus was sweating, which means he was definitely working harder than in previous games.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 09:55:37 AM
Marcus was sweating, which means he was definitely working harder than in previous games.
He didn't play enough to sweat the previous games
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 08, 2015, 10:01:41 AM
ok

nino:  3/9 FGs, 0-1 3pt, 9 reb, 3 TO

to me, this is out standing

jaws does not need to be shooting 3's and he needs to increase his fg%
ya rebounds
3 TO's

eff that crap

after his kat kareer, he needs to open up a dispensary and name it Nino's Baseline J's b/c that's all he's good at
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 10:03:25 AM
He needs to practice 3's more and bust another one out in a couple weeks
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 08, 2015, 10:04:53 AM
fair enough, let's give him a couple of weeks practice at the new facility meant just for getting better and we'll go from there.

nino, until then- NO MORE 3's!!  i'm serious bro, no more.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 08, 2015, 10:08:15 AM
ok

Westicles:  3/4 FGs, 1-1 3pt, 2 reb, 3 assists, 2 TO, in 30 mins

ruling:  ou tstanding
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 11:03:08 AM
ok

Westicles:  3/4 FGs, 1-1 3pt, 2 reb, 3 assists, 2 TO, in 30 mins

ruling:  ou tstanding

also, shoot more 3's!
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: CNS on January 08, 2015, 12:15:03 PM
We talked about it in chat a bit but the pace this year is horrendous. I don't know why he thinks with this personnel the right play is to play slower, but all it does is further expose all of our weaknesses. It's so gross to watch.

I hate slow basketball almost as much as slow losing basketball.  Not entertaining at all
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ltrain on January 08, 2015, 12:56:28 PM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

He definitely had stretches where Marcus was better, but he does not put much effort in defensively.  Some of that is we don't extend our man pressure very far and we switch on every screen.

As far as offense, that should be most possessions.

He loses his man, like, a lot.  And not because of a bad switch or anything.  Like he's watching the ball and loses track of his guy who is standing in the opposite corner or under the basket or something.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 12:59:08 PM
Was Foster's defense better? Because when I wasn't busy discussing Kansas geography in chat he looked just as lazy on defense as he had before.

Also, loved the second half possession that started with an in bound under our basket and Marcus literally had his hands on his hips with the ball in play, runs around a screen, and nails a 3. :love:

He definitely had stretches where Marcus was better, but he does not put much effort in defensively.  Some of that is we don't extend our man pressure very far and we switch on every screen.

As far as offense, that should be most possessions.

He loses his man, like, a lot.  And not because of a bad switch or anything.  Like he's watching the ball and loses track of his guy who is standing in the opposite corner or under the basket or something.


yes, and then he is very slow at his closeouts. I think it's bad coaching.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Skipper44 on January 08, 2015, 01:19:00 PM
We talked about it in chat a bit but the pace this year is horrendous. I don't know why he thinks with this personnel the right play is to play slower, but all it does is further expose all of our weaknesses. It's so gross to watch.

I hate slow basketball almost as much as slow losing basketball.  Not entertaining at all
I completely agree, after we make a fourth or fifth pass on a possession it usually requires an amazing shot or oreb to score.

I blame it on oscar's control freakness. His only good teams are when he has stud perimeter players that are good enough ignore 75% of his blathering and just go play. 
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on January 08, 2015, 02:02:12 PM
The motion offense sucks because we fail at the motion part. Most of the time the defender beats our guy to the spot forcing passes that move the offense away from the basket. The second and third looks aren't there because only one guy is ever moving.

Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 02:29:44 PM
The motion offense sucks because we fail at the motion part. Most of the time the defender beats our guy to the spot forcing passes that move the offense away from the basket. The second and third looks aren't there because only one guy is ever moving.

I agree in the sense that offensive system is not "the problem."  The motion offense has worked in many places. 

However, there is more to its failure this year than execution of principles.  Limited talent is a part, poor execution is a part, a lack of effective passers is a part...The biggest concern for me is a lack of innovation or wrinkles/reads to get us quality shots.  Our offense seems most successful at getting Nino baseline jumpers. 

It struggles to get Gip good isolated touches on the block.  We struggle to find cutters (and we don't often cut).  We don't have the personnel to execute pick and pops (even though we often read that when running motion).  We don't get enough open looks for Foster and our offense is much to egalitarian in touches.  I hate the offense because it doesn't play to our strengths and I don't think running it better is a viable solution because at its best it does not play to our strengths and we don't have the personnel to run it well imo.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 02:43:26 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 08, 2015, 02:46:04 PM
bring back the windmill
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 08, 2015, 02:50:56 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 02:52:32 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

I think they almost have too much trust in the player's competency at running motion.  oscar does not run very many called plays.  I think we should run more structured offense, not less.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 03:01:24 PM
He usually calls out sequences to run during the games. I know oscar and Lowery aren't easy on the players at times. For instances after the timeouts the team is told three offensive sets to run against man and zone. Then they need to read the defense and running the plays in sequence. Bob Knight has said it truly takes players 2 years to be able to learn a motion offense.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 03:07:47 PM
He usually calls out sequences to run during the games. I know oscar and Lowery aren't easy on the players at times. For instances after the timeouts the team is told three offensive sets to run against man and zone. Then they need to read the defense and running the plays in sequence. Bob Knight has said it truly takes players 2 years to be able to learn a motion offense.

Right.  I'm saying oscar should not be having the players perform this many reads right now.  They need to run more quick-hitters/set plays.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 08, 2015, 03:13:14 PM
He usually calls out sequences to run during the games. I know oscar and Lowery aren't easy on the players at times. For instances after the timeouts the team is told three offensive sets to run against man and zone. Then they need to read the defense and running the plays in sequence. Bob Knight has said it truly takes players 2 years to be able to learn a motion offense.

Right.  I'm saying oscar should not be having the players perform this many reads right now.  They need to run more quick-hitters/set plays.

Probably so, but this is fundamental to oscar's philosophy (or any true motion coach). They are going to stick with teaching the system and options of the offense so the players can run it and not have to "rely" on sets. They'll have some stuff for end of game, end of shot clock, and getting certain players shots, but the motion is going to carry (sometimes later than sooner) the team. I'm sure oscar believes firmly that in the long run teaching the offense this way is the best for the program. And with time restrictions, I don't believe you can teach a bunch of sets and teach a true motion offense and be good at either one.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 03:21:16 PM
He usually calls out sequences to run during the games. I know oscar and Lowery aren't easy on the players at times. For instances after the timeouts the team is told three offensive sets to run against man and zone. Then they need to read the defense and running the plays in sequence. Bob Knight has said it truly takes players 2 years to be able to learn a motion offense.

Right.  I'm saying oscar should not be having the players perform this many reads right now.  They need to run more quick-hitters/set plays.

Probably so, but this is fundamental to oscar's philosophy (or any true motion coach). They are going to stick with teaching the system and options of the offense so the players can run it and not have to "rely" on sets. They'll have some stuff for end of game, end of shot clock, and getting certain players shots, but the motion is going to carry (sometimes later than sooner) the team. I'm sure oscar believes firmly that in the long run teaching the offense this way is the best for the program. And with time restrictions, I don't believe you can teach a bunch of sets and teach a true motion offense and be good at either one.

I honestly don't think it would be that difficult to teach some sets that reinforce motion concepts and that is probably what I would pitch it as if I were an assistant coach.  I think it is stupid for basketball coaches to be so married to a system.  This isn't football where you are attempting to coordinate 11 moving parts and you only have 3-4 tries to advance the ball 10 yards.  I know that coaches have systems and there are system guys all over the place, but I don't think it is smart to be inflexible in the face of mounting failure. 

I realize that this is all not going to happen, but it is frustrating to watch and I don't know how losing a bunch of games running crappy offense is actually building the program.  The fact that there does not seem to be any drastic steps being taken doesn't necessarily undermine my case.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 03:22:25 PM
I just want Foster to get more meaningful touches
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on January 08, 2015, 03:23:07 PM
I just want Foster to get more meaningful touches

YES
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on January 08, 2015, 03:25:08 PM
I just want Foster to get more meaningful touches

YES

I'm on board with this. His %Poss and %Shots are both down this year and that should not be the case.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Skipper44 on January 08, 2015, 03:25:38 PM
The lesson learned from 2012 is even with good players it took having 4 legit 3 pt shooters on the floor with Shane at the 4 for oscar's system to work.  We often don't have that due to JT, Nino or Malek's presence on the floor. 

It is too bad Nino's bouncy rainbow is only good out to 18 ft and he has to go back to that flat footed push shot like the one put up last night.

Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 08, 2015, 03:32:41 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 04:05:18 PM
He usually calls out sequences to run during the games. I know oscar and Lowery aren't easy on the players at times. For instances after the timeouts the team is told three offensive sets to run against man and zone. Then they need to read the defense and running the plays in sequence. Bob Knight has said it truly takes players 2 years to be able to learn a motion offense.

Right.  I'm saying oscar should not be having the players perform this many reads right now.  They need to run more quick-hitters/set plays.

Probably so, but this is fundamental to oscar's philosophy (or any true motion coach). They are going to stick with teaching the system and options of the offense so the players can run it and not have to "rely" on sets. They'll have some stuff for end of game, end of shot clock, and getting certain players shots, but the motion is going to carry (sometimes later than sooner) the team. I'm sure oscar believes firmly that in the long run teaching the offense this way is the best for the program. And with time restrictions, I don't believe you can teach a bunch of sets and teach a true motion offense and be good at either one.

The questions about motion offenses is it more effective in the long run and if you can keep roster continuity in todays college basketball environment. I do believe well coached and experienced motion offenses can be really hard for defense to take away. Having a roster with enough experience I think can be a real challenge. 
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 04:07:22 PM
motion offenses are brutally simple.

Well, they can be.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 04:09:56 PM
motion offenses are brutally simple.

Well, they can be.

Yes in theory, but not it practice. They usually present a lot of chances for someone to eff up.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 08, 2015, 04:40:39 PM
motion offenses are brutally simple.

Well, they can be.


Yes in theory, but not it practice. They usually present a lot of chances for someone to eff up.

All offenses do
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Trim on January 08, 2015, 08:05:17 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He does suck though.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 08, 2015, 09:01:22 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 10:09:23 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
It is always funny listening people talk about oscar and Illinois that didn't watch him coach at Illinois.
Title: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 08, 2015, 10:38:30 PM
what? you want me to try and defend a motion offense?  what the eff is that?

#H4H
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 11:06:01 PM
oscar's offense is so dependent on not turing the ball over. All his Great offenses were incredible at keeping the rock in their possession. oscar thinking this team could get buy on offense early is pretty crazy. Without any upperclass guards we didn't stand a chance. The sad part is the offense was actually pretty good early on, very early on. You compound that with not effectively reaching the team early on and it might equate oscar's worst job ever.

Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 08, 2015, 11:07:58 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
It is always funny listening people talk about oscar and Illinois that didn't watch him coach at Illinois.
You're not the only one who watches basketball, dickface.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: sys on January 08, 2015, 11:12:55 PM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 08, 2015, 11:17:02 PM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.

He can be bad at both things.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 08, 2015, 11:29:36 PM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.
Staff failed last year at landing a better guard. Ended up settling for Trey harris, who might not be a bad player, but at the moment has to many limitations. I find it hard to be critical about the 2013 class. 

Missed out on Nate Mason who committed to Minnesota and Javon Bess who committed to Michigan State. Michigan State swooped in late and stole him.
Nate is playing quite a bit for Minn and doing so at a good level. Javon barely plays for MSU but is playing well in that time.

The Flush in the 2015 class appears to be a very good recruit. He is probably my favorite recruit oscar has landed at K-State.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: catzacker on January 09, 2015, 07:03:06 AM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.

i'm trying to figure out what offense Jevon and Edwards would actually be good in. 
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: pissclams on January 09, 2015, 08:25:31 AM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.

i'm trying to figure out what offense Jevon and Edwards would actually be good in. 

the cherry pick offense.  sys knows all about it, i used to run it on his ass at the chester e peters
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 09, 2015, 09:46:45 AM
why doesn't he just recruit more and better guards?  he has three recruiting classes here.  it's not that he's stubbornly refusing to change his offense to fit his players.  it's that he's stubbornly refusing to recruit players to fit his offense.

i'm trying to figure out what offense Jevon and Edwards would actually be good in.

As previously discussed, Jevon would be much better in a faster tempo, less precise offense. I'd actually like to see him in a dribble drive motion. Edwards is fine. We took the most athletic player in oscar's three years and turned him into a jump shooter. Makes since.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 09, 2015, 09:52:39 AM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
It is always funny listening people talk about oscar and Illinois that didn't watch him coach at Illinois.

Also what a load of bullshit this is. You spent all summer talking about Hopper and I can almost guarantee you that pamplemousse saw more Illinois basketball with oscar Weber than you saw Hopper play Maine basketball.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 09, 2015, 10:52:21 AM
I'd wager that I watched 35-45 games while oscar was head coach at Illinois. If Mixed-Nutz watched that many Maine games over a two year period then he's either a Maine fan or has very unique priorities.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on January 09, 2015, 12:18:35 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
It is always funny listening people talk about oscar and Illinois that didn't watch him coach at Illinois.

Also what a load of bullshit this is. You spent all summer talking about Hopper and I can almost guarantee you that pamplemousse saw more Illinois basketball with oscar Weber than you saw Hopper play Maine basketball.
I was wrong about Justin, my people were wrong about Justin. It happens.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: sys on January 09, 2015, 12:21:16 PM
 :lol:
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: michigancat on January 09, 2015, 12:22:29 PM
all I need to know about oscar's tenure at Illinois I found on his wikipedia page.

all I needed to know to formulate my preseason Hopper opinion was a look at his Maine 3FG%
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on January 09, 2015, 04:26:33 PM
all I need to know about oscar's tenure at Illinois I found on his wikipedia page.

all I needed to know to formulate my preseason Hopper opinion was a look at his Maine 3FG%

This is also true.
Title: Re: Back on the Marc; TCU ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on January 09, 2015, 05:41:29 PM
oscar is usually pretty good at putting in wrinkles for us to adapt to. But we run the offense like garbage, so adding wrinkles would complex our current problems.

Yeah, its easy to just say "oscar sucks", but I think he's proven to be a pretty good offensive coach. I just think he either is having troubles reaching this group, or this group can't handle what the staff is trying to put in. Probably a combination of the two.
 
And he and Lowrey have always made pressure defense a point of emphasis and they aren't going to let it be as terrible as it has been this year, especially the crap we put on the floor in Hawaii.

Who is just saying "oscar sucks?" No one. I think the consensus is that oscar is stubborn and inflexible, none of that is news.

He would probably be less stubborn and inflexible if John Currie hadn't generously rewarded his obvious failure at Illinois. oscar's situation basically didn't change at all after he was fired. He was immediately hired at a place that's about equal to his last job. Probably a little harder to recruit here, but fan expectations are lower than what he faced at Illinois, and he sure as crap didn't take a pay cut. We deserve what's happening to us, or it shouldn't be surprising at least.
It is always funny listening people talk about oscar and Illinois that didn't watch him coach at Illinois.

Also what a load of bullshit this is. You spent all summer talking about Hopper and I can almost guarantee you that pamplemousse saw more Illinois basketball with oscar Weber than you saw Hopper play Maine basketball.
I was wrong about Justin, my people were wrong about Justin. It happens.

That isn't the point. It's bush for you to assume that he didn't watch oscar Weber coach before he was here because you disagree with him. I knew I saw Edwards more than you did but I didn't dismiss your opinion of him because you don't have NESN and the America East web package. Let's just talk basketball without that bullshit.