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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:19:20 PM

Title: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:19:20 PM
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1st, let's be clear. This is an awful Bradley team that will struggle to finish in the upper half of the Mo Valley.

2nd, the aberration of this season to this point is that this team somehow played a reasonably close game with Arizona.

The first half was terrible, the 2nd half had slightly more entertainment value, but K-State was still bad. A couple of Marcus Foster spurts were the only thing that saved this team. To this point it seems as if this staff completely swung and missed on both transfers because neither looks like a major D1 player. The talk about Edwards just seems idiotic right now. Oh, he's a serviceable athletic wing, but no more than a role player it would seem, but it looks like the staff thought he would be a legit compliment to Foster. To be even competitive in the Big 12 it will take some major retooling of what we do and I'm not sure what the answer is going to be besides 25 shots for Foster per game.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: The Big Train on December 09, 2014, 09:21:56 PM
umm, _FAN that player is in the NBA
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:24:15 PM
umm, _FAN that player is in the NBA

Yeah.

This team's propensity for mistakes must be contagious.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: SleepFighter on December 09, 2014, 09:25:07 PM
What this bbs needs is for sys to start calling people Nazis again.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:26:28 PM
I mean, I used to really wonder how oscar's final team at Illinois just absolutely fell apart...
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: pissclams on December 09, 2014, 09:27:19 PM
it's somewhat surprising that this team is struggling to replace what we lost last year

the guys are young but even  the young guys got a fair amount of minutes last year
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: ksupamplemousse on December 09, 2014, 09:27:47 PM
I mean, I used to really wonder how oscar's final team at Illinois just absolutely fell apart...

The residue of toughness has finally worn off.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:28:27 PM
it's somewhat surprising that this team is struggling to replace what we lost last year

the guys are young but even  the young guys got a fair amount of minutes last year

Yes, there is plenty of experience back. "Young team" is a BS excuse.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: pissclams on December 09, 2014, 09:32:38 PM
I'm not going to go that far
young guys- experienced in last years system doesn't equate to knowing what they're doing this year

definitely not trying to make excuses though- just looking at it logically
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Steffy08 on December 09, 2014, 09:34:33 PM
I mean, I used to really wonder how oscar's final team at Illinois just absolutely fell apart...

The residue of toughness has finally worn off.

I'm concerned about this, too.

This team shouldn't be that bad.  When I see Weber talking and none of these guys paying attention, I am concerned.
Title: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on December 09, 2014, 09:35:47 PM
I am shocked at the regression of Wes.  I think he is hurt.  I will do a PP/NN so be sure to stay up for it guys.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: The Big Train on December 09, 2014, 09:36:01 PM
maybe will was actually not a rat voiced loser and actually showed some resemblance of a leader
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: HerrSonntag on December 09, 2014, 09:36:18 PM
I'm not going to go that far
young guys- experienced in last years system doesn't equate to knowing what they're doing this year

definitely not trying to make excuses though- just looking at it logically
i told myself this a few times in the last 6ish weeks, just need to get the new guys up to speed.  I fear that other shoe will never drop.  I fear we're looking at it...  Gip could play a little better (needs better feeds) Foster can get more consistant, but that won't drastically change our team.  We need complete turn arounds from everyone else to even finish above .500 in conference.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 09:50:56 PM
@KellisRobinett: oscar Weber: "We keep trying to hit home runs. We need to get somebody on base and chip away at them -- Royals Ball."
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: BackPayne on December 09, 2014, 09:56:42 PM
@KellisRobinett: oscar Weber: "We keep trying to hit home runs. We need to get somebody on base and chip away at them -- Royals Ball."

He doesn't even know which sport he coaches.  :eek:
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Powercat Posse on December 09, 2014, 10:18:24 PM
Last 2 games... 36.6% on 2pt shots and 39 TOs in 124 poss. 

I meen it's hard not to suck on offense when you make only slightly better than 1/3 of your 2pt shots and turn the ball almost 1/3 of your poss.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: CyberToothCat on December 09, 2014, 10:19:56 PM
At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Pete on December 09, 2014, 10:20:55 PM

At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?

TCU.  But, ya 9th is in play.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Tobias on December 09, 2014, 10:23:53 PM
i wish we were tcu, to date
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 09, 2014, 10:26:17 PM
i wish we were tcu, to date

Undefeated. 2 wins over SEC teams, one over a Pac 12 team. Yeah.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: cfbandyman on December 09, 2014, 10:59:25 PM
I mean, I used to really wonder how oscar's final team at Illinois just absolutely fell apart...

The residue of toughness has finally worn off.

I'm concerned about this, too.

This team shouldn't be that bad.  When I see Weber talking and none of these guys paying attention, I am concerned.

That's whats amazing, it's not like EMAPE, Shane, and Sprads were that essential to our success, and at least on paper we improved in talent in every spot, yet this team just looks like absolute garbage. Stanbot even made the observation that it seemed amazing at how Gip was not fed the ball/if he was fed the ball he didn't even look to score. Gip seems to be a nonfactor, Wes is worthless, and everyone just seems to look at Foster to do something cause he's the only on that can. This team has zero chemistry, zero desire, and zero toughness. What a hot mess, and not in a good way at all.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: CNS on December 09, 2014, 11:08:04 PM
This team is obvs going to mutiny oscar.  How long until curries trash can steps in?
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: dal9 on December 09, 2014, 11:11:02 PM
Last 2 games... 36.6% on 2pt shots and 39 TOs in 124 poss. 

I meen it's hard not to suck on offense when you make only slightly better than 1/3 of your 2pt shots and turn the ball almost 1/3 of your poss.
Well but last game was against that unusual match-up zone, and then this game this obscure junk defense called the MAN TO rough ridin' MAN.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on December 09, 2014, 11:12:34 PM
@KellisRobinett: oscar Weber: "We keep trying to hit home runs. We need to get somebody on base and chip away at them -- Royals Ball."

Keep the Royals name out of your mouth oscar. How dare you. You haven't earned that you gigantic dork.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on December 09, 2014, 11:15:51 PM
oscar mentioned the Royals. My blood is boiling. He wishes. Dream on stupid idiot.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Trim on December 10, 2014, 01:16:33 AM

At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?

TCU.  But, ya 9th is in play.

"Why settle for 9th when last is available?"
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Pete on December 10, 2014, 07:16:27 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on December 10, 2014, 07:36:57 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?

Qualifier: If the offense continues to be this bad and this turnover prone, yes.  A compounding issue is the poor defense.

I think it is entirely possible this is a below .500 team.  That is shocking.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2014, 07:45:47 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?
No
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2014, 08:00:29 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?
No
I should specify I've really only watched the Maui games.

I caught the last five minutes of last nights game and oh my God the open threes we let Bradley take. :sdeek:
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 10, 2014, 08:02:35 AM
This team has zero chemistry, zero desire, and zero toughness.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: michigancat on December 10, 2014, 08:09:14 AM
This team has zero chemistry, zero desire, and zero toughness.
Yeah but they do have Foster and Gip
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 10, 2014, 08:18:51 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?

Qualifier: If the offense continues to be this bad and this turnover prone, yes.  A compounding issue is the poor defense.

I think it is entirely possible this is a below .500 team.  That is shocking.

Yeah, you can really pinpoint three things.
1) We turn it over like crazy, currently over 1/5 of our possessions (22%) end in TOs right now.
2) Teams shoot really well against us (52.6% eFG% allowed) and we are neither good defending 2s (50.5% allowed) or 3s (37.7% allowed).
3) Teams go to the FT line A LOT (45.4% FT rate allowed).

Now, we do some things really well ourselves, a couple of which are somewhat surprising.
1) We are FT rating like Frank teams (54.3%).
2) We shoot really well on 3s (40.1%). That is a bit sporadic though because we have had some dreadful games (LBSU, Pitt, most of Tenn).
3) We oboard pretty well (37.6%).

I think the TOs and offense can be improved with experience, defense I'm not sure. If we can correct TOs, this offense can be pretty good, probably on par with 2013. However, the defensive issues of allowing teams to shoot so well AND go to the FT line is problematic. Like most oscar/Lowry teams we force a lot of TOs, but we can't live with teams shooting this well against us. Granted, the 3PT thing is a lottery comes into play, but teams have also consistently killed us on 2s.

Like michigan, I don't believe we are as bad as we've shown and as sys said, there is some merit to the variance in shooting that could swing us 2 wins in the positive very easily. But then I look at how ugly some stretches of basketball can be and its hard to be positive. Plus, we're going to have to win 10-11 Big 12 games now because our OOC resume is going to pretty bad since its questionable if we've beat a tournament team yet (Purdue's resume will probably look a lot like ours).

So far just a very frustrating start with what looked to be a pretty decent team.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 10, 2014, 08:22:00 AM
Last 2 games... 36.6% on 2pt shots and 39 TOs in 124 poss. 

I meen it's hard not to suck on offense when you make only slightly better than 1/3 of your 2pt shots and turn the ball almost 1/3 of your poss.
Well but last game was against that unusual match-up zone, and then this game this obscure junk defense called the MAN TO rough ridin' MAN.

Man to man is tougher to play against. That is why so many teams run it.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: pissclams on December 10, 2014, 08:46:42 AM
Last 2 games... 36.6% on 2pt shots and 39 TOs in 124 poss. 

I meen it's hard not to suck on offense when you make only slightly better than 1/3 of your 2pt shots and turn the ball almost 1/3 of your poss.
Well but last game was against that unusual match-up zone, and then this game this obscure junk defense called the MAN TO rough ridin' MAN.

Man to man is tougher to play against. That is why so many teams run it.

take a lap.
one defense isn't tougher than the other.  so many teams play man to man because that's the old balls way of doing things and coaches, like everyone else in this world, do what they're taught and what feels comfortable.
most teams actually struggle more against zone defenses vs man but that's only because they see less of them and most of their offense is built to counter man d.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Spracne on December 10, 2014, 08:55:07 AM
In big-time, modern college basketball, neither straight man-to-man nor straight zone work all the time.  Most defenses are some witches brew of both.  This defensive philosophy was pioneered by Forrest C. "Phog" Allen and his Stratified Transitional Man-for-Man Defense with the Zone Principle.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 10, 2014, 08:57:16 AM
In big-time, modern college basketball, neither straight man-to-man nor straight zone work all the time.  Most defenses are some witches brew of both.  This defensive philosophy was pioneered by Forrest C. "Phog" Allen and his Stratified Transitional Man-for-Man Defense with the Zone Principle.

How long after inventing the game of basketball did he implement these principles? Is this in the special building protecting the rules?
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Spracne on December 10, 2014, 08:58:38 AM
In big-time, modern college basketball, neither straight man-to-man nor straight zone work all the time.  Most defenses are some witches brew of both.  This defensive philosophy was pioneered by Forrest C. "Phog" Allen and his Stratified Transitional Man-for-Man Defense with the Zone Principle.

How long after inventing the game of basketball did he implement these principles? Is this in the special building protecting the rules?

He didn't invest basketball, just the basketball sandwich.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Mr Bread on December 10, 2014, 11:06:00 AM
Give it to me straight guys, are we as bad as I think we might be?
No
I should specify I've really only watched the Maui games.

I caught the last five minutes of last nights game and oh my God the open threes we let Bradley take. :sdeek:

You're right though.  It will not stay like this.  oscar and Lowery don't have terrible defensive teams (for an entire season), and there's too much talent for the offense to remain consistently awful.  At some point it will click and the cats will take off this season.  I can sense it.  It might be too late to make it in as an at-large, but there will a lot of buzz for a run to the Phillips or a if they make it to the champy and a few other teams falter then they're in scenario.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on December 10, 2014, 11:16:32 AM
You're right though.  It will not stay like this.  oscar and Lowery don't have terrible defensive teams (for an entire season), and there's too much talent for the offense to remain consistently awful.  At some point it will click and the cats will take off this season.  I can sense it.  It might be too late to make it in as an at-large, but there will a lot of buzz for a run to the Phillips or a if they make it to the champy and a few other teams falter then they're in scenario.
[/quote

I put my analysis of some of our defensive problems in the per 100 thread. I think some of it is just the size of our guards and that's going to be difficult to change.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: pvegs on December 10, 2014, 12:00:59 PM

At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?

TCU.  But, ya 9th is in play.

"Why settle for 9th when last is available?"

Remember how I said oscar was gonna have to win me back into the fold this year? Screw that, let's just go look to the aquarium and look at otters.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Trim on December 10, 2014, 12:06:59 PM

At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?

TCU.  But, ya 9th is in play.

"Why settle for 9th when last is available?"

Remember how I said oscar was gonna have to win me back into the fold this year? Screw that, let's just go look to the aquarium and look at otters.

Those otters, completely ignorant of emaw hoops, were very happy.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Lucas Scoopsalot on December 10, 2014, 12:22:59 PM
Remember what Bread told us about how they call oscar, "Bubbles" because he is one the bubble every year? That was pretty great.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: pvegs on December 10, 2014, 12:36:03 PM
Remember what Bread told us about how they call oscar, "Bubbles" because he is one the bubble every year? That was pretty great.

Did he specify NCAA or NIT bubble?  :frown:
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: CNS on December 10, 2014, 12:38:29 PM
Tolerance
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Mr Bread on December 10, 2014, 12:40:04 PM
Remember what Bread told us about how they call oscar, "Bubbles" because he is one the bubble every year? That was pretty great.

I didn't tell you that, luke.  Some other rando did. 
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on December 10, 2014, 09:25:07 PM
Remember what Bread told us about how they call oscar, "Bubbles" because he is one the bubble every year? That was pretty great.

I didn't tell you that, luke.  Some other rando did.

I can only hope we show up on some bubble watch list this year. We're pretty awful guys.

Thanks again Currie.
Title: Re: Only the chiefs can watch; Bradley ADV
Post by: CyberToothCat on December 11, 2014, 06:14:07 PM

At what point do we start discussing the odds that this team will be in contention for last in the league?

TCU.  But, ya 9th is in play.

TCU has much better accomplishments than we do. I don't think it's certain that we'll be better than them.

At this point, I am expecting zero road wins and three or four home conf losses. In other words, I'm expecting us to legitimately challenge for the league cellar.