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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2014, 09:06:40 PM

Title: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2014, 09:06:40 PM
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2nd half defense continues to let down and the Cats simply are going to struggle defending much longer/taller teams. Assistketball didn't happen. Westicles and Gip each had moments, but it wasn't enough; someone else has to step up to offset Foster. Arizona simply had too much defense on everyone else.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: EMAWzified on November 25, 2014, 09:09:02 PM
A lot of coffee tonight? Quick conformation the 2nd half PPP was as bad as it seemed.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 25, 2014, 09:09:28 PM
I thought Jevon looked ok
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on November 25, 2014, 09:19:34 PM
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2nd half defense continues to let down and the Cats simply are going to struggle defending much longer/taller teams. Assistketball didn't happen. Westicles and Gip each had moments, but it wasn't enough; someone else has to step up to offset Foster. Arizona simply had too much defense on everyone else.
Their length did bother us as much as dribble penetration, we also have a lot to clean up on the defensive end. It isn't very shocking oscar is a slow coach when it comes to installing. Zona is really good defensively.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Powercat Posse on November 25, 2014, 09:25:13 PM
I don't think our defense was good or even decent after the break ( our transition D in particular), but give Az credit, they seem to knockdown most of their jumpers in the 2nd half. 

Az made 12 of their 19 shots in the 2nd half and made 20 of their last 23 FTs, and they couldn't shake us.  Niño had a little bad luck shooting on his last 2 shots. 

eFG of 52%, TO% of 17, and FTR of 49% all pretty good numbers against a team that is one of best in the nation on defense.  Poor 2pt shooting in 1st half was the obvious disappointment
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: catzacker on November 25, 2014, 09:26:42 PM
are we, like, more athletic than we actually play?  it seems that way.  I look at our team and it looks like they should be athletic, but they don't play that way.  on either side of the ball.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2014, 09:32:29 PM
Edwards has been extremely disappointing. And Gip had to find a way to avoid quick first half fouls.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: TheProdigiousTalent on November 25, 2014, 09:46:50 PM
Arizona has some great shooters, guys.  Especially the bigs - wow.  They killed us with their range.  Mr. Set Shot was pretty devastating too - just painful to be subjected to effective long-distance set shooting by a short guy.  I felt like AZ just shot really well despite decent 2nd-half katz D.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: EMAWzified on November 25, 2014, 09:54:51 PM
They were effective running their offense in the 2nd half. Passes and cuts were crisp and good movement (I mean 1.31 PPP). We didn't disrupt it much. 
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: chum1 on November 25, 2014, 10:01:24 PM
Top stats words in this thread:

1. Crisp
2. Athletic
3. Range
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Bill Clarahan on November 25, 2014, 10:02:03 PM
Edwards has been extremely disappointing. And Gip had to find a way to avoid quick first half fouls.

Edwards isn't what the oscar propaganda machine promised but he's what should have been expected.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on November 25, 2014, 10:08:21 PM
Edwards has been extremely disappointing. And Gip had to find a way to avoid quick first half fouls.

Edwards isn't what the oscar propaganda machine promised but he's what should have been expected.

I think you mean the Marcus Foster propaganda machine. Honestly, I wasn't expecting him to live up to that hype, but I thought he could contribute and still think he might. Even if he was playing just decent, K-State probably wins at LBSU and maybe tonight.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: pissclams on November 25, 2014, 10:22:29 PM
the thing about Edwards that everyone needs to remember is that he has a 45" vertical
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: gatoveintisiet on November 25, 2014, 10:29:37 PM
This team stands around waiting for Marcus to do something.  nino, wes, justin, drive to the hoop.  Shooters- spot the eff up for a kick out 3.  oscar, get the defense together.  Ready-break!
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on November 25, 2014, 11:00:44 PM
are we, like, more athletic than we actually play?  it seems that way.  I look at our team and it looks like they should be athletic, but they don't play that way.  on either side of the ball.

I can't speak for LBSU, that's a throw away but the length of the last two teams we played have made the athleticism look pedestrian. On offense against Purdue we looked very athletic against their zone, we penetrated gaps and went over the top of the zone. When they went to man, they packed it in a little bit and forced us to shoot, that obviously worked well for us. Arizona is way bigger than us and just as athletic or even more so. I think Arizona and Wisconsin are the only teams that physically have a shot of matching up with Kentucky although Kentucky is way better. We don't have functional size, luckily the good teams in the conference, other than UT, don't either. Our athleticism will show well against most of our opponents including tomorrow night.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on November 25, 2014, 11:03:38 PM
This team stands around waiting for Marcus to do something.  nino, wes, justin, drive to the hoop.  Shooters- spot the eff up for a kick out 3.  oscar, get the defense together.  Ready-break!
This was oscar's best defensive scheme this year, dork. We lost on O boards down the stretch with that tall bastard they had.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Skipper44 on November 25, 2014, 11:23:12 PM
I been disappointed with our problems keeping guards óf the lane, even mid major McConnell was getting by people in the first half and we don't have the lenght to not get hurt after helping.  I hope that gets better as the season goes, it generally does after all the xmas break practices but Jevon, Marcus and Nigel could be better.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on November 25, 2014, 11:26:13 PM
I been disappointed with our problems keeping guards óf the lane, even mid major McConnell was getting by people in the first half and we don't have the lenght to not get hurt after helping.  I hope that gets better as the season goes, it generally does after all the xmas break practices but Jevon, Marcus and Nigel could be better.
Defensive rotations are more mental, imo.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: gatoveintisiet on November 25, 2014, 11:57:35 PM
This team stands around waiting for Marcus to do something.  nino, wes, justin, drive to the hoop.  Shooters- spot the eff up for a kick out 3.  oscar, get the defense together.  Ready-break!
This was oscar's best defensive scheme this year, dork. We lost on O boards down the stretch with that tall bastard they had.

C'mon Wacky, we can do better than give up 1.14 per. That dork thing was hurtful too pal.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: MakeItRain on November 25, 2014, 11:59:29 PM
I been disappointed with our problems keeping guards óf the lane, even mid major McConnell was getting by people in the first half and we don't have the lenght to not get hurt after helping.  I hope that gets better as the season goes, it generally does after all the xmas break practices but Jevon, Marcus and Nigel could be better.
Defensive rotations are more mental, imo.

yeah, in middle school where the ball doesn't move 4x faster than your feet
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: illBisonYourdele on November 26, 2014, 10:47:02 AM
I been disappointed with our problems keeping guards óf the lane, even mid major McConnell was getting by people in the first half and we don't have the lenght to not get hurt after helping.  I hope that gets better as the season goes, it generally does after all the xmas break practices but Jevon, Marcus and Nigel could be better.
Defensive rotations are more mental, imo.

yeah, in middle school where the ball doesn't move 4x faster than your feet

 :thumbs:
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on November 26, 2014, 12:08:48 PM
Problem: we struggle to run plays and/or create in half court sets in end of half or end of game situations.  We had 3 straight chances to tie or take the lead down 2 and could not do it.

We also continue to have the most inexplicable problems with inbounding the basketball.  Our inbounds plays are terrible and on the one play we did get a lay up off of the play it should've been a 5 count.  On the inbounds play that Nino scored on it was probably the worst shot of the game and completely LOL worthy.

These always seem like nitpicky stupid things to complain about until you are in a close game and need to run a  play or have someone create an opportunity off dribble penetration or you need to inbound the ball under pressure at the end of a game.

It drives me crazy because at least the inbounds play seems to be easily correctable.  The last play stuff is more difficult to correct, but when Marcus foster doesn't see the ball and Nino throws up a contested jumper with the game on the line it makes me furious.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 12:18:56 PM
KK, we had two very good possessions in the last minute even though we didn't score. nino had a very nice look and Foster got the ball into the paint before traveling. still nice possessions.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 12:20:20 PM
I think a 2 for 1 would have been nice, too, but whatever.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Stevesie60 on November 26, 2014, 12:23:11 PM
I lol'd pretty hard (well, I would have if I wasn't so stressed about the game at the time) when the announcers went on about how great our inbounds play was from the corner because that's a rare spot to have to inbound the ball and we "knew exactly which play we wanted to run".
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on November 26, 2014, 12:23:27 PM

KK, we had two very good possessions in the last minute even though we didn't score. nino had a very nice look and Foster got the ball into the paint before traveling. still nice possessions.

The travel in the lane was not good and the Nino possession was insane. 

Foster dribble drove with no game plan except hoping for a foul. 
Nino's shot should've gone to Gip or Foster.  A guarded baseline jumper is a terrible shot for Nino or anyone else on our team.

The defense did play well and rebound for that stretch run which was nice.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on November 26, 2014, 12:24:51 PM

I lol'd pretty hard (well, I would have if I wasn't so stressed about the game at the time) when the announcers went on about how great our inbounds play was from the corner because that's a rare spot to have to inbound the ball and we "knew exactly which play we wanted to run".

I think Nino thought there were two seconds left on the shot clock and probably yelled "KOBE!" As he threw up his one footed turn around/fadeaway 20 footer in the corner.  I LOL'd.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 12:26:21 PM



KK, we had two very good possessions in the last minute even though we didn't score. nino had a very nice look and Foster got the ball into the paint before traveling. still nice possessions.

The travel in the lane was not good and the Nino possession was insane. 

Foster dribble drove with no game plan except hoping for a foul. 
Nino's shot should've gone to Gip or Foster.  A guarded baseline jumper is a terrible shot for Nino or anyone else on our team.

The defense did play well and rebound for that stretch run which was nice.

Nino wasn't guarded very closely. And yes, Foster made a mistake but him getting the ball in that area is a better scenario than almost any play you can draw up against a team as well coached as Arizona. Give me "Foster dribble-drive and hope for the foul" over any other play.
Title: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on November 26, 2014, 12:31:27 PM
You are trolling.  When you don't get a shot off and you turn the ball over it is almost always not a good possession barring some bad offensive foul call.  The Nino shot was bad because it was Nino and anything other than wide open is bad and even that is something I would not like as much as a Foster or Gip shot.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: CNS on November 26, 2014, 12:37:22 PM
The last inbounds play was infuriating.  the one where we had foster and gip(?) set at the ball end wide open, then both ran toward the goal while our guard(don't remember who) ran up for the inbound while guarded.  Then we threw a weak ass pass straight to both our guy and AZ's guy. 

We did a lot of really shitty passing last night.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: ChiComCat on November 26, 2014, 12:41:27 PM
The last inbounds play was infuriating.  the one where we had foster and gip(?) set at the ball end wide open, then both ran toward the goal while our guard(don't remember who) ran up for the inbound while guarded.  Then we threw a weak ass pass straight to both our guy and AZ's guy. 

We did a lot of really shitty passing last night.

On those full court inbounds plays we seemed like we had to run the set play, no matter how easy it was to inbound regularly.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 12:42:39 PM


You are trolling.  When you don't get a shot off and you turn the ball over it is almost always not a good possession barring some bad offensive foul call. 

If he wouldn't have traveled, he likely would have been fouled or passed to someone open. Getting the ball there with foster was a positive, even though the end result was not. You can have what I would consider  good execution on a possession even if the end result doesn't produce points.

 And I don't think nino was as closely guarded as you think.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Mixed-Nutz on November 26, 2014, 01:03:04 PM


You are trolling.  When you don't get a shot off and you turn the ball over it is almost always not a good possession barring some bad offensive foul call. 

If he wouldn't have traveled, he likely would have been fouled or passed to someone open. Getting the ball there with foster was a positive, even though the end result was not. You can have what I would consider  good execution on a possession even if the end result doesn't produce points.

 And I don't think nino was as closely guarded as you think.

Completely agree, we did some good things late to get Foster some looks. But Arizona has the talent to take away most teams best wing and post player. Tarczewski and Hollis-Jefferson are that talented defensively.

McConnell also played a hell of game although he was handy as crap and got away with it.

We need someone else to step up and score. I would of liked to see Nigel in the game when we need to score more. He is currently the 2nd best volume scorer on our team. Unless Justin figures it out and is that talented. I don't think that is Justin's game.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 01:06:35 PM
X
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on November 26, 2014, 01:12:30 PM


You are trolling.  When you don't get a shot off and you turn the ball over it is almost always not a good possession barring some bad offensive foul call. 

If he wouldn't have traveled, he likely would have been fouled or passed to someone open. Getting the ball there with foster was a positive, even though the end result was not. You can have what I would consider  good execution on a possession even if the end result doesn't produce points.

 And I don't think nino was as closely guarded as you think.

Nino was wide open from the short corner and the ball rimmed out. KK might be talking about the contested drive for Nino which was questionable. But I agree with Rusty that a wide open mid range jumper for Nino and Foster drives are both both possessions.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 01:20:19 PM
Ah, that makes sense. But nino did have at least one fantastic second half drive. Maybe two.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 26, 2014, 01:20:42 PM
Yeah if Nino gets that look and doesn't take it, he shouldn't be on the floor. That was the discussion about Will last year when he was chicken to shoot.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: PIPE on November 26, 2014, 01:21:58 PM
Nino can hit those baseline jumpers pretty good, so I think he had 2 possessions at the end like that.  I thought those were good looks. 

Now, what the heck was up w/ Wesley throwing away the inbounds play.....it wasn't his fault, cause we were running some play that took 8 seconds to set up. He could of thrown it in to Foster in less than a second, but we started to run this 21 second play instead...jeesh.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: brandochav on November 26, 2014, 01:35:51 PM
Top stats words in this thread:

1. Crisp
2. Athletic
3. Range

Number of times each word was typed prior to your post:

1. Crisp - 1
2. Athletic - 2
3. Range - 1

 :dunno:
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: pissclams on November 26, 2014, 01:38:47 PM
foster's travel in the lane against their 7 footer wasn't a good possession
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: Kat Kid on November 26, 2014, 01:42:22 PM

Ah, that makes sense. But nino did have at least one fantastic second half drive. Maybe two.

I think I was mixing together the Nino drive and jumper also i think execution vs. idea is what I was more upset about re: foster drive although I would argue that the bad execution was because he was indecisive and did not have a plan.
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: michigancat on November 26, 2014, 02:04:43 PM

Ah, that makes sense. But nino did have at least one fantastic second half drive. Maybe two.

I think I was mixing together the Nino drive and jumper also i think execution vs. idea is what I was more upset about re: foster drive although I would argue that the bad execution was because he was indecisive and did not have a plan.
That's fair, but that's not really a coaching failure IMO
Title: Re: Missed in Maui; Arizona ADV
Post by: kso_FAN on November 26, 2014, 03:48:17 PM

Ah, that makes sense. But nino did have at least one fantastic second half drive. Maybe two.

I think I was mixing together the Nino drive and jumper also i think execution vs. idea is what I was more upset about re: foster drive although I would argue that the bad execution was because he was indecisive and did not have a plan.
That's fair, but that's not really a coaching failure IMO

I have no problem with the best player on your team getting to the lane, and if he gets all the way to the rim on a jump stop it is even better, he just shuffled his feet before he drew the foul. His plan was to get to the rim and I'd coach Foster to do that if he has a driving lane every time.