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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 03:26:53 PM

Title: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 03:26:53 PM
Well, are we?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2014, 03:27:18 PM
I hope not.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 03:28:04 PM
Why not?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: MadCat on April 16, 2014, 03:39:44 PM
1-dimensional offense?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2014, 03:41:11 PM
Why not?

I like winning.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ydarg2012 on April 16, 2014, 03:43:52 PM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 16, 2014, 03:44:08 PM
Waters will run some and the Wildat with Sams.  :love: We'll try and mix it up i'm sure.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: CNS on April 16, 2014, 03:47:05 PM
Hope not.  I don't think Bill could keep that up.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 16, 2014, 03:48:40 PM
Waters will run some and the Wildat with Sams.  :love: We'll try and mix it up i'm sure.

I hope we never run a designed run for Waters. Let the runners run and the passers pass.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: star seed 7 on April 16, 2014, 03:50:49 PM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Unfortunately with ol' three and out at the helm, being down late in the fourth will probably be very common, unlike it was for ck
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Shooter Jones on April 16, 2014, 03:55:30 PM
Waters will run some and the Wildat with Sams.  :love: We'll try and mix it up i'm sure.

I hope we never run a designed run for Waters. Let the runners run and the passers pass.

a season full of Waters fainting goats and losses would be frustrating as all fucks.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: meow meow on April 16, 2014, 04:00:42 PM
I hope DRob (<--cool nickname for Demarcus Robinson) has a breakout year, gets 1,000+ yards rushing.  He seems much more explosive than Hubert, just hope he can put it all together this year.  If he does, look out guys!  :driving:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 04:01:20 PM
Waters will run some and the Wildat with Sams.  :love: We'll try and mix it up i'm sure.

I hope we never run a designed run for Waters. Let the runners run and the passers pass.

Seems like we waste so many plays and drives with the waters draw.

What would happen if we throw it 40-50 times a game?

This will never happen btw.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2014, 04:02:09 PM
Jack Waters is a poor man's Chad May
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 04:03:09 PM
I hope DRob (<--cool nickname for Demarcus Robinson) has a breakout year, gets 1,000+ yards rushing.  He seems much more explosive than Hubert, just hope he can put it all together this year.  If he does, look out guys!  :driving:

Don't hold your breath.

I am still wondering if he even exists.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 04:07:34 PM
Jack Waters is a poor man's Chad May

Maybe.

If we're going with waters then let's go! 

Fit the offense around the players you have and stuff!
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2014, 04:10:06 PM
The offense will be incredibly predictable when Sams is in the wildcat. I just hope the coaching staff is smart enough to throw a pass play in there every once in a while. Kind of like they did @Texas last year. Oh wait....
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: catz on April 16, 2014, 04:12:59 PM
The offense will be incredibly predictable when Sams is in the wildcat. I just hope the coaching staff is smart enough to throw a pass play in there every once in a while. Kind of like they did @Texas last year. Oh wait....

Sams in = QB run
Waters in = Throw the same route 3 times in a row because it worked twice earlier in the game.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: CNS on April 16, 2014, 04:13:14 PM
The offense will be incredibly predictable when Sams is in the wildcat. I just hope the coaching staff is smart enough to throw a pass play in there every once in a while. Kind of like they did @Texas last year. Oh wait....

Back to the color coded offense.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 16, 2014, 04:14:56 PM
We have much more of an identity of ourselves this year. I think the players and coaching staff found out a lot about themselves last year. Growing pains? Yes. Improvement through the year? Yes. I'm very excited to watch the offense this year. I'm nervous about the RB situation, but we'll have plenty of playmakers.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 04:20:46 PM
I feel our lack of rb talent/experience is going to hurt us.

I wish when SAMs was in the play calling was exactly like the first drive of the OSU game.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 16, 2014, 04:26:45 PM
We have much more of an identity of ourselves this year. I think the players and coaching staff found out a lot about themselves last year. Growing pains? Yes. Improvement through the year? Yes. I'm very excited to watch the offense this year. I'm nervous about the RB situation, but we'll have plenty of playmakers.

The coaching staff coached like a bunch of rough ridin' idiots the first 3-4 games last season. You can't argue otherwise.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Trogdor on April 16, 2014, 04:27:28 PM
(https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSMkTrJpf2CEzOb5Z934OWx8AFmasnnkfQLa9nd8j61CfEz4GiQ)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F3.bp.blogspot.com%2F-HE6_XY2-jNA%2FUEOdpa1U9tI%2FAAAAAAAAB3g%2FZaSvvDWA8sM%2Fs1600%2Fg12c000000000000000a6321040652b4d0b63f8d5dfc67a1fea7204106b.jpg&hash=2035fa0a67f2c1dfb1c3c0c9c593b0fe2364c05e)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsports.kcstar.com%2Fmedia%2Fvarsity%2Fimg%2Fgallery%2F5OKns.St.81_jpeg_640x800_autocrop-True_upscale-True_q85.jpg&hash=56a48049138a08d69de4cb30e86443e214b9e649) <---#15 wasnt ready for the Mack attack

:love:

My answer: Hell No
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 16, 2014, 04:32:32 PM
We have much more of an identity of ourselves this year. I think the players and coaching staff found out a lot about themselves last year. Growing pains? Yes. Improvement through the year? Yes. I'm very excited to watch the offense this year. I'm nervous about the RB situation, but we'll have plenty of playmakers.

The coaching staff coached like a bunch of rough ridin' idiots the first 3-4 games last season. You can't argue otherwise.
Nope. I can't. They were real crap heads. I wanted to murder them in Austin.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 04:48:17 PM
We have much more of an identity of ourselves this year. I think the players and coaching staff found out a lot about themselves last year. Growing pains? Yes. Improvement through the year? Yes. I'm very excited to watch the offense this year. I'm nervous about the RB situation, but we'll have plenty of playmakers.

The coaching staff coached like a bunch of rough ridin' idiots the first 3-4 games last season. You can't argue otherwise.
Nope. I can't. They were real crap heads. I wanted to murder them in Austin.

The play calling was bizarre.

Would a "watered" down air raid offense work or would it leave our defense out to dry?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2014, 07:19:25 PM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Did you forget all about the Texas AM comeback when
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F17%2Ftaqy5ude.jpg&hash=7e5dded2107be17dc567ec77af09515df7356d0f)


was born? (credit to asava for the pic)


Down 10 with 6 minutes left.....
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: That_Guy on April 16, 2014, 07:33:09 PM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Did you forget all about the Texas AM comeback when
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F17%2Ftaqy5ude.jpg&hash=7e5dded2107be17dc567ec77af09515df7356d0f)


was born? (credit to asava for the pic)


Down 10 with 6 minutes left.....

Easily One of the best games i've been to.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: That_Guy on April 16, 2014, 07:34:26 PM
Jack WaLters is a poor man's Chad May
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Benja on April 16, 2014, 07:36:39 PM
We'll do k-state stuff mixed with throw to lockett stuff
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ben ji on April 16, 2014, 07:38:41 PM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Did you forget all about the Texas AM comeback when
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F17%2Ftaqy5ude.jpg&hash=7e5dded2107be17dc567ec77af09515df7356d0f)


was born? (credit to asava for the pic)


Down 10 with 6 minutes left.....

Easily One of the best games i've been to.

This.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJbWRT7uKPY ,  is probably my favorite LHC Bill Snyder moment.

I view it as the day Bill got his swagger back.....started out 7-0, lost 2 straight, then pulled this out. I imagine that while Bill was staring at the crowd he was thinking "This is it. This is why I came back, for moments like this"
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 08:01:18 PM
Guys CK is gone...

3rd and 4 we are going to have to Pass.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: wetwillie on April 16, 2014, 08:07:49 PM
We will dink and dunk the crap out of everyone.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 08:34:45 PM
We will dink and dunk the crap out of everyone.

Yes :ksu:

Also, chicks dig the long ball :love:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: LickNeckey on April 16, 2014, 08:38:29 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: wetwillie on April 16, 2014, 08:42:07 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett

We are going to be really good this year aren't we?  Just give it to me straight.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kim carnes on April 16, 2014, 08:51:38 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett

who the eff is matt miller?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 16, 2014, 08:53:54 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett

who the eff is matt miller?

He was Waters before we ever had a Bish, Ell, or Beas
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 16, 2014, 08:54:53 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
I'm so ready for a big back. :love: :crossfingers:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Cire on April 16, 2014, 09:46:46 PM
Lots of hitches outs and comebacks
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Bqqkie Pimp on April 16, 2014, 10:18:36 PM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
I'm so ready for a big back. :love: :crossfingers:

Our RB's have been 5'7 - 190 for so long that we now think 6'0-203 is a "big back".  :lol:

And, since 1989, LHCBS has been doing everything in his power (while admitting as much) to maintain balance in the rushing/passing attacks.  Expecting anything else would be foolish at this point, IYAM.  I think we'll end up slightly heavier to the pass, but balance is the goal.

Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ksupamplemousse on April 16, 2014, 11:34:00 PM
To repeat what somebody said earlier on, I pray that they put the QB run game on the shelf for the most part. Run some options to the outside, but other than that let the running backs take it themselves. No need to put Jake in harm's way, especially when he's so ineffective running between the tackles. Hopefully offseason film review has been illuminating for our coaching staff.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Demo158 on April 17, 2014, 12:56:34 AM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Did you forget all about the Texas AM comeback when
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F17%2Ftaqy5ude.jpg&hash=7e5dded2107be17dc567ec77af09515df7356d0f)


was born? (credit to asava for the pic)


Down 10 with 6 minutes left.....

Easily One of the best games i've been to.

This.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJbWRT7uKPY ,  is probably my favorite LHC Bill Snyder moment.

I view it as the day Bill got his swagger back.....started out 7-0, lost 2 straight, then pulled this out. I imagine that while Bill was staring at the crowd he was thinking "This is it. This is why I came back, for moments like this"
This is pretty great, I imagined the same thing watching the video before I read your comment after it.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: star seed 7 on April 17, 2014, 12:58:47 AM
Waters wishes he was matt miller
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: KSUfaithful on April 17, 2014, 07:13:02 AM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
I'm so ready for a big back. :love: :crossfingers:

Our RB's have been 5'7 - 190 for so long that we now think 6'0-203 is a "big back".  :lol:

And, since 1989, LHCBS has been doing everything in his power (while admitting as much) to maintain balance in the rushing/passing attacks.  Expecting anything else would be foolish at this point, IYAM.  I think we'll end up slightly heavier to the pass, but balance is the goal.

Daniel Thomas tho
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 07:22:41 AM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
I'm so ready for a big back. :love: :crossfingers:

Our RB's have been 5'7 - 190 for so long that we now think 6'0-203 is a "big back".  :lol:

And, since 1989, LHCBS has been doing everything in his power (while admitting as much) to maintain balance in the rushing/passing attacks.  Expecting anything else would be foolish at this point, IYAM.  I think we'll end up slightly heavier to the pass, but balance is the goal.
That would be considered a big back in Snyder's system. Daniel Thomas and parts of Thomas Clayton were fun to watch.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2014, 09:19:58 AM
Waters will run some and the Wildat with Sams.  :love: We'll try and mix it up i'm sure.

I hope we never run a designed run for Waters. Let the runners run and the passers pass.

Seems like we waste so many plays and drives with the waters draw.

What would happen if we throw it 40-50 times a game?

This will never happen btw.

I would expect an increase in turnovers, worse average starting field position, worse TOP, and less wins. We would probably score more points, though.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kso_FAN on April 17, 2014, 09:22:42 AM
I expect us to be better in most advanced metrics for offense (and our numbers last year were really good).
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2014, 09:29:09 AM
O/U on Waters INT's is set at 12.5

Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 09:32:42 AM
O/U on Waters INT's is set at 12.5
U. :)
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ydarg2012 on April 17, 2014, 09:37:57 AM
I guess my lasting memory was vs Oregon on CK.  I loved that Texas A&M game.  By far the best game I've ever watched live. Though I think all the suspense might have taken a few years off of my life. 
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 09:39:50 AM
He gave me a hi five after that game.  :gocho:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ydarg2012 on April 17, 2014, 09:40:42 AM
He gave me a hi five after that game.  :gocho:

I'm guessing you still haven't washed that hand? I wouldn't blame you.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: meow meow on April 17, 2014, 09:41:33 AM
I say no. . .but we won't have to worry as much when we are down late in the game.  When we had CK at the helm and we were down late in the fourth. . .we kinda knew it was over.

Did you forget all about the Texas AM comeback when
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F04%2F17%2Ftaqy5ude.jpg&hash=7e5dded2107be17dc567ec77af09515df7356d0f)


was born? (credit to asava for the pic)


Down 10 with 6 minutes left.....

Easily One of the best games i've been to.

This.....https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZJbWRT7uKPY ,  is probably my favorite LHC LHC Bill Snyder moment.

I view it as the day Bill got his swagger back.....started out 7-0, lost 2 straight, then pulled this out. I imagine that while Bill was staring at the crowd he was thinking "This is it. This is why I came back, for moments like this"
This is pretty great, I imagined the same thing watching the video before I read your comment after it.

Bill is just watching the players as they go around the field, waiting for them to go into the locker room.  He's not admiring the scene like we'd all like to believe.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: sonofdaxjones on April 17, 2014, 09:42:34 AM
Holy crap, the consummate big K-State back has been forgotten?


(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fairjudden1.tripod.com%2Fksu%2Fimages%2Fksuhall1.jpg&hash=8f83d688851e53068b84ef41b68f406197bf28e0)


Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 09:43:39 AM
He gave me a hi five after that game.  :gocho:

I'm guessing you still haven't washed that hand? I wouldn't blame you.
I have glass around it so air can't touch it.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kso_FAN on April 17, 2014, 09:52:52 AM
O/U on Waters INT's is set at 12.5



I'm guessing 25 TDs to 10 INTs, probably better. Waters will probably run less, but average more yards per carry. 65% completions, 3500+ yards, 9ish yards per attempt. I'm not sure why anyone would expect a regression. Snyder's quarterbacks almost always make improvements from their JR to SR seasons and usually very dramatic improvements.

Winning more games and being a legit contender for the Big 12 next year will come down to the play of the defense and special teams. Our offense finished in the Top 15 last year and I expect it to remain at least in the top 20. However, our special teams were less than spectacular (#33) and our defense was mediocre (#43). If those don't improve, then the offense won't matter much.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2014, 09:59:46 AM
O/U on Waters INT's is set at 12.5



I'm guessing 25 TDs to 10 INTs, probably better. Waters will probably run less, but average more yards per carry. 65% completions, 3500+ yards, 9ish yards per attempt. I'm not sure why anyone would expect a regression. Snyder's quarterbacks almost always make improvements from their JR to SR seasons and usually very dramatic improvements.

Winning more games and being a legit contender for the Big 12 next year will come down to the play of the defense and special teams. Our offense finished in the Top 15 last year and I expect it to remain at least in the top 20. However, our special teams were less than spectacular (#33) and our defense was mediocre (#43). If those don't improve, then the offense won't matter much.

Last year he threw an INT every 29 attempts. I can see him improving on that average but he'll have 150-200 more attempts this year. I think he'll end up right around a dozen.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2014, 10:23:18 AM
I'd like to see a healthy reliance on the play action.  Assuming we have a RB/OL that keeps the defense honest.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kso_FAN on April 17, 2014, 10:27:57 AM
I'd like to see a healthy reliance on the play action.  Assuming we have a RB/OL that keeps the defense honest.



QB run action passes to Gronk! :love:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 10:30:23 AM
I know Waters isn't Sams, but he can run too. He was very successful with it in JUCO. Maybe he's gotten a lil bit better everyday? :dunno:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2014, 10:31:57 AM
I know Waters isn't Sams, but he can run too. He was very successful with it in JUCO. Maybe he's gotten a lil bit better everyday? :dunno:

Waters shies away from contact too much to be effective at designed run plays at the D1 level. I don't mind him scrambling, but having him run designed draws didn't work last year and probably never will.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 17, 2014, 10:36:27 AM
What are the odds a healthy SAMs has more snaps at qb than a healthy waters during a game this season?

I say pretty damn good!
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2014, 10:41:44 AM
What are the odds a healthy SAMs has more snaps at qb than a healthy waters during a game this season?

I say pretty damn good!

Whatever the opposite of pretty damn good is. That's my answer.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: KITNfury on April 17, 2014, 10:45:21 AM
I know Waters isn't Sams, but he can run too. He was very successful with it in JUCO. Maybe he's gotten a lil bit better everyday? :dunno:

Waters shies away from contact too much to be effective at designed run plays at the D1 level. I don't mind him scrambling, but having him run designed draws didn't work last year and probably never will.
IIRC, I think he had some decent QB draws later in the season. I think you're right that option type plays aren't his forte, but designed runs at the right time will work. He also realized that he's not the best at taking contact and would go ahead and dive forward when he was about to get hit which limited his fumbles. I'm ok with that as he usually had a first down by that point. He's obviously no big play threat with his legs, but good enough to add that element of surprise to a defense.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Shooter Jones on April 17, 2014, 10:46:35 AM
I know Waters isn't Sams, but he can run too. He was very successful with it in JUCO. Maybe he's gotten a lil bit better everyday? :dunno:

Waters shies away from contact too much to be effective at designed run plays at the D1 level. I don't mind him scrambling, but having him run designed draws didn't work last year and probably never will.

Waters on a designed run, huge hole, defender "closing" in, and..

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F2542037%2Ffainting-goat-o.gif&hash=2442f275bf245e0634cf01e6406530fbb94c5200)
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 10:49:35 AM
I know Waters isn't Sams, but he can run too. He was very successful with it in JUCO. Maybe he's gotten a lil bit better everyday? :dunno:

Waters shies away from contact too much to be effective at designed run plays at the D1 level. I don't mind him scrambling, but having him run designed draws didn't work last year and probably never will.

Waters on a designed run, huge hole, defender "closing" in, and..

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview6%2F2542037%2Ffainting-goat-o.gif&hash=2442f275bf245e0634cf01e6406530fbb94c5200)
Looks like a first down tho.  :)
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: SPEmaw on April 17, 2014, 10:51:13 AM
Waters is much more akin to a wealthy individuals Matt Miller.

also dont't sleep on Leverett
I'm so ready for a big back. :love: :crossfingers:

Our RB's have been 5'7 - 190 for so long that we now think 6'0-203 is a "big back".  :lol:

And, since 1989, LHCBS has been doing everything in his power (while admitting as much) to maintain balance in the rushing/passing attacks.  Expecting anything else would be foolish at this point, IYAM.  I think we'll end up slightly heavier to the pass, but balance is the goal.
That would be considered a big back in Snyder's system. Daniel Thomas and parts of Thomas Clayton were fun to watch.

Which parts specifically, Wacky? :fatty: (not that there's anything wrong with that)
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 17, 2014, 10:51:41 AM
What are the odds a healthy SAMs has more snaps at qb than a healthy waters during a game this season?

I say pretty damn good!

Whatever the opposite of pretty damn good is. That's my answer.

Wanna bet?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on April 17, 2014, 10:53:44 AM
What are the odds a healthy SAMs has more snaps at qb than a healthy waters during a game this season?

I say pretty damn good!

Whatever the opposite of pretty damn good is. That's my answer.

Wanna bet?

Uhh, yea.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: WildcatNkilt on April 17, 2014, 10:55:46 AM
Water's running/scrambling abilities improved throughout the season.  He started to learn to buy some time in the pocket and still make accurate passes on the run.  In the Michigan game, he scrambled for a couple first downs when he couldn't get a pass off.  I also recall during the OU game that he scrambled a few times out of the pocket and had a long TD pass to Lockett.  If you give him time, he can beat you with his arm or his legs.  Now that he has had more time to get comfortable with his receivers and the game has slowed down for him, I think he could have an amazing season.  I've never felt this confident about a K-State QB in a long time (even Klein).  I have never been concerned about Water's accuracy and arm strength.  He also started to identify the defensive mismatches more and audible to take advantage of that (something Klein did very well). 

Guys I'm really excited about the upcoming season.  If our defense lives up to expectations and our O-Line doesn't suck balls I'm team #10wins. 
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2014, 11:05:57 AM
How are the tackles doing though?  :ohno:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 17, 2014, 11:13:13 AM
Water's running/scrambling abilities improved throughout the season.  He started to learn to buy some time in the pocket and still make accurate passes on the run.  In the Michigan game, he scrambled for a couple first downs when he couldn't get a pass off.  I also recall during the OU game that he scrambled a few times out of the pocket and had a long TD pass to Lockett.  If you give him time, he can beat you with his arm or his legs.  Now that he has had more time to get comfortable with his receivers and the game has slowed down for him, I think he could have an amazing season.  I've never felt this confident about a K-State QB in a long time (even Klein).  I have never been concerned about Water's accuracy and arm strength.  He also started to identify the defensive mismatches more and audible to take advantage of that (something Klein did very well). 

Guys I'm really excited about the upcoming season.  If our defense lives up to expectations and our O-Line doesn't suck balls I'm team #10wins.

 :emawkid:

I feel the same way!
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kso_FAN on April 17, 2014, 11:31:35 AM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on April 17, 2014, 12:29:29 PM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.

Interesting. My recollection of Miller was that he was a better runner with a weaker arm compared to Jake. But...stats and stuff. I tend to trust fan on this one.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2014, 12:35:38 PM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.

I just watched all the meaningful offensive possessions from the BWW Bowl and Waters was nearly perfect.  He even ran the speed options decently.  He tends to slow play them a bit but we still gained yards on each one and I'd bet averaged 4 or 5 yards an attempt.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on April 17, 2014, 12:41:12 PM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.

I just watched all the meaningful offensive possessions from the BWW Bowl and Waters was nearly perfect.  He even ran the speed options decently.  He tends to slow play them a bit but we still gained yards on each one and I'd bet averaged 4 or 5 yards an attempt.

After rewatching, how good were we or how terrible was the Michigan defense? 
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 17, 2014, 12:53:53 PM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.

I just watched all the meaningful offensive possessions from the BWW Bowl and Waters was nearly perfect.  He even ran the speed options decently.  He tends to slow play them a bit but we still gained yards on each one and I'd bet averaged 4 or 5 yards an attempt.

After rewatching, how good were we or how terrible was the Michigan defense?

Tough for me to say.  They couldn't get much rush without blitzing.  Our WR's were too much to handle.  And the HB/QB run game was a very nice change of pace, keep them honest kind of situaish. 
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 75cat on April 17, 2014, 01:36:49 PM
All the talk regarding the passing game has been about Waters and the Wide Receivers but what about that pop pass or jump pass over the line.  it has long been in Snyder's play book, before Tebow & CK, and nobody has learned how to stop it; Little Gronk and Trujillo feasted on that play last year. What has happened to the play where Jordy rolled to his right with a pitched ball and threw for a couple of TD's?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on April 17, 2014, 01:40:27 PM
All the talk regarding the passing game has been about Waters and the Wide Receivers but what about that pop pass or jump pass over the line.  it has long been in Snyder's play book, before Tebow & CK, and nobody has learned how to stop it; Little Gronk and Trujillo feasted on that play last year. What has happened to the play where Jordy rolled to his right with a pitched ball and threw for a couple of TD's?

That Jordy play was in Ron Prince's playbook. I would love to see some plays like that for Sams, though.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kso_FAN on April 17, 2014, 01:42:41 PM
All the talk regarding the passing game has been about Waters and the Wide Receivers but what about that pop pass or jump pass over the line.  it has long been in Snyder's play book, before Tebow & CK, and nobody has learned how to stop it; Little Gronk and Trujillo feasted on that play last year. What has happened to the play where Jordy rolled to his right with a pitched ball and threw for a couple of TD's?

Its a great play. And while we usually ran it to the FB, we also ran the same action and threw to the inside receiver in trips formations (usually Sexton). We also ran a similar action and ran a bubble/slant combination and threw to both routes.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: stunted on April 17, 2014, 04:26:20 PM
Water's running/scrambling abilities improved throughout the season.  He started to learn to buy some time in the pocket and still make accurate passes on the run.  In the Michigan game, he scrambled for a couple first downs when he couldn't get a pass off.  I also recall during the OU game that he scrambled a few times out of the pocket and had a long TD pass to Lockett.  If you give him time, he can beat you with his arm or his legs.  Now that he has had more time to get comfortable with his receivers and the game has slowed down for him, I think he could have an amazing season.  I've never felt this confident about a K-State QB in a long time (even Klein).  I have never been concerned about Water's accuracy and arm strength.  He also started to identify the defensive mismatches more and audible to take advantage of that (something Klein did very well). 

Guys I'm really excited about the upcoming season.  If our defense lives up to expectations and our O-Line doesn't suck balls I'm team #10wins.

I feel the same way.  Its possible he has the best season ever for a ksu qb, and if the defense is solid and 11 or more wins, heisman is a possibility.  The way he throws the deep ball, he could have video game stats (at least if you adjust to a more normal pace of play).  Though he probably wont run for a billion tds like Klein
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: 420seriouscat69 on April 17, 2014, 04:30:53 PM
I've really been enjoying stunted's zeal lately.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 17, 2014, 04:31:27 PM
The Lockett post route over the middle should be there all season. Mix in SAMs bubble screens and the jump passes we have the chance to have a top 3 offense in the conference.

My worry is the play calling and the love of the qb run game.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: stunted on April 17, 2014, 04:34:02 PM
I doubt there will be an identity crisis with the playcalling.

Snyder has all summer to come up with plays for Jake  :ksu:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: DQ12 on April 17, 2014, 05:48:43 PM
Snyder is generally pretty good at handling offenses, especially when he has a capable qb.  But even with CCQ under center, our offenses were alright.  I'm very excited about our offense, especially if SDS.c's pocket presence improves. 

Losing Hubes is a bummer because I loved him, but for the most part, RBs are a dime a dozen.

The biggest question I have is whether we can find a second quality receiver to take some pressure off of Lockett, who (imo) isn't the same kind of a threat that a Jordy, Justin Blackmon, or even Harper were.  I'd like to see a more physical receiver emerge as a quality second target.  Football roster experts: do we have anyone that could maybe act like that (good hands and >5'10)?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: That_Guy on April 17, 2014, 06:04:36 PM
Snyder is generally pretty good at handling offenses, especially when he has a capable qb.  But even with CCQ under center, our offenses were alright.  I'm very excited about our offense, especially if SDS.c's pocket presence improves. 

Losing Hubes is a bummer because I loved him, but for the most part, RBs are a dime a dozen.

The biggest question I have is whether we can find a second quality receiver to take some pressure off of Lockett, who (imo) isn't the same kind of a threat that a Jordy, Justin Blackmon, or even Harper were.  I'd like to see a more physical receiver emerge as a quality second target.  Football roster experts: do we have anyone that could maybe act like that (good hands and >5'10)?

Davis/Klein/Sams?
 :dunno:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: DQ12 on April 17, 2014, 06:08:57 PM
Davis/Klein/Sams?
 :dunno:
They certainly all look the part!  OTOH, Torell Miller did too.  Hope somebody "breaks out."
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: GoodForAnother on April 17, 2014, 07:12:35 PM
I hope we throw 50 yard bombs on every play
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Bqqkie Pimp on April 17, 2014, 08:22:34 PM
Snyder is generally pretty good at handling offenses, especially when he has a capable qb.  But even with CCQ under center, our offenses were alright.  I'm very excited about our offense, especially if SDS.c's pocket presence improves. 

Losing Hubes is a bummer because I loved him, but for the most part, RBs are a dime a dozen.

The biggest question I have is whether we can find a second quality receiver to take some pressure off of Lockett, who (imo) isn't the same kind of a threat that a Jordy, Justin Blackmon, or even Harper were.  I'd like to see a more physical receiver emerge as a quality second target.  Football roster experts: do we have anyone that could maybe act like that (good hands and >5'10)?


http://www.kstatesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/deante_burton_810990.html
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: DQ12 on April 17, 2014, 09:41:12 PM
Is Burton the guy we all used to call "Mercury" a couple years ago?  I think maybe he was on Clams' all burner team? 

Maybe?
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: eastcat on April 17, 2014, 10:45:24 PM
 :pray: please find us a tailback
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kim carnes on April 17, 2014, 10:47:35 PM
Snyder is generally pretty good at handling offenses, especially when he has a capable qb.  But even with CCQ under center, our offenses were alright.  I'm very excited about our offense, especially if SDS.c's pocket presence improves. 

Losing Hubes is a bummer because I loved him, but for the most part, RBs are a dime a dozen.

The biggest question I have is whether we can find a second quality receiver to take some pressure off of Lockett, who (imo) isn't the same kind of a threat that a Jordy, Justin Blackmon, or even Harper were.  I'd like to see a more physical receiver emerge as a quality second target.  Football roster experts: do we have anyone that could maybe act like that (good hands and >5'10)?

Did you seriously just post that Lockett is not a better WR than Harper?   like omg dlew
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: LickNeckey on April 17, 2014, 10:51:52 PM
I would defer to _fan on this but I would assume to see more of the "packaged" plays involving more vertical stretch concepts

threaten with run (and visions and options of power) while stretching the field with the h, te, or wr's


also i felt that during the Mich game we were more comfortable with Waters as a "scrambler" rather that forcing run first concepts
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: DQ12 on April 17, 2014, 11:09:59 PM
Snyder is generally pretty good at handling offenses, especially when he has a capable qb.  But even with CCQ under center, our offenses were alright.  I'm very excited about our offense, especially if SDS.c's pocket presence improves. 

Losing Hubes is a bummer because I loved him, but for the most part, RBs are a dime a dozen.

The biggest question I have is whether we can find a second quality receiver to take some pressure off of Lockett, who (imo) isn't the same kind of a threat that a Jordy, Justin Blackmon, or even Harper were.  I'd like to see a more physical receiver emerge as a quality second target.  Football roster experts: do we have anyone that could maybe act like that (good hands and >5'10)?

Did you seriously just post that Lockett is not a better WR than Harper?   like omg dlew
I said he isn't the same kind of threat that Harper was. Lockett's way faster and a better route runner etc. etc., but Harper was more physical. It's weird that I had to clarify that point to a great poster like you Carnes.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: stunted on April 18, 2014, 02:42:00 AM
Lockett is like the small baylor guy with stupid hair but way better, more confident, less spiteful/validation-seeking.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Stevesie60 on April 18, 2014, 04:29:31 AM
Early returns on Sams at WR are very good. A comparison to Ryan Broyles was thrown out there, from someone who knows a lot about football.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Bqqkie Pimp on April 18, 2014, 09:03:05 AM
Is Burton the guy we all used to call "Mercury" a couple years ago?  I think maybe he was on Clams' all burner team? 

Maybe?

Not sure about that, but the kid is a GREAT (think $EC quality) athlete and the staff seems very high on him at this point. 

With DSams development, we have a very solid crew of WR's with Lockett, Sexton, Burton, Klein and Davis.  Most years Judah Jones would see a lot of snaps, but will fight for playing time with this group.

Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: sunny_cat on April 18, 2014, 09:05:52 AM
Early returns on Sams at WR are very good. A comparison to Ryan Broyles was thrown out there, from someone who knows a lot about football.

Holy crap would take
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: kstate4life on April 18, 2014, 11:20:38 AM
Early returns on Sams at WR are very good. A comparison to Ryan Broyles was thrown out there, from someone who knows a lot about football.

Well he did used to play as Broyles on the scout team a couple years ago... makes sense.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 18, 2014, 11:51:26 AM
So do we even need running backs this year or what?

 :ksu:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on April 18, 2014, 12:11:56 PM
Waters is terrible on speed option, there is no doubt there (though he did improve as the season went along).

However, he's pretty good on zone read option and delay QB lead/draw plays. He is good at moving in the pocket to buy time to throw as well. He's not a detriment as a runner and the QB run game can still be a nice part of our offense, it just won't be the percentage it was for Klein or Sams.

The comparison with Matt Miller is almost spot on. Waters is actually a slightly better runner than Miller, Miller had a higher completion percentage, but Waters has a higher YPA. Their TD:INT is identical.

I just watched all the meaningful offensive possessions from the BWW Bowl and Waters was nearly perfect.  He even ran the speed options decently.  He tends to slow play them a bit but we still gained yards on each one and I'd bet averaged 4 or 5 yards an attempt.

After rewatching, how good were we or how terrible was the Michigan defense?

i know a guy that watched part of the game with some big12 coaches and he said that the coaches were loling at michigan the entire time and saying that they must not have watched five seconds of kstate tape. take whatever you want from that.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: Emo EMAW on April 18, 2014, 12:15:54 PM
Guys I want a bunch of Sams jet sweep actions but them BAM! deep pass to TLBL for the TOUCHDOWN WIIIILDCATS!!!  STAN DID YOU SEE THAT!  Yes I did Wyatt, the Sams jet action brought the the safeties up and Lockett beat them deep, and the Cats take a 14 point lead into halftime against the Tigers.
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: daBish7 on April 18, 2014, 12:31:19 PM
Guys I want a bunch of Sams jet sweep actions but them BAM! deep pass to TLBL for the TOUCHDOWN WIIIILDCATS!!!  STAN DID YOU SEE THAT!  Yes I did Wyatt, the Sams jet action brought the the safeties up and Lockett beat them deep, and the Cats take a 14 point lead into halftime against the Tigers.

Wyatt:  What you say?

Stan:  I can't hear you.

Wyatt: THIS PLACE IS GOING CRAZY!
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: ydarg2012 on April 18, 2014, 01:33:00 PM
Guys I want a bunch of Sams jet sweep actions but them BAM! deep pass to TLBL for the TOUCHDOWN WIIIILDCATS!!!  STAN DID YOU SEE THAT!  Yes I did Wyatt, the Sams jet action brought the the safeties up and Lockett beat them deep, and the Cats take a 14 point lead into halftime against the Tigers.


If this play isn't already in the main playbook then Snyders doing it wrong.

Point being that LHCBS never does it wrong, so it's in there.  :thumbsup:
Title: Re: Are we going to go all in on the passing game this season?
Post by: PIPE on April 18, 2014, 01:34:14 PM
We haven't seen the jail-break screen in several years, will it be back this year??