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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 13, 2014, 10:13:19 AM
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Advanced Stats comparison:
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OU is a much better match-up because like us they aren't real big and don't really have a dominant big. Clark might be the best scorer in the league and has size at 6-7, but he's more of a swing forward than a true post. Hield is a great shooter and a top 10 scorer in the league. They also have a nice FR point in Woodard, a solid big in Spangler, and a 3rd very good guard in Cousins. All these guys play over 70% mins, but Neil, Hornbeak, and Booker are a solid trio of bench players.
OU is a contrast in styles in that they want to play fast, have a great offense, and a below average defense. Offensively nothing stands out as great (top 20), but everything is really good as the Sooners are top 90 nationally in each of the 4 factors which leads to a Top 20 offense at 1.17 ppp. Plus they've maintained quality offense against Top 100 teams. However, they are equally average on defense as all 4 factors rank #135 or worse leading to a #180th ranked defense at 1.04 points per possession. Against higher quality competition those defensive numbers get even worse and quality opponents are shooting 55% and scoring at a 1.13 ppp clip.
However, the Cats offense has been pretty bad, especially shooting the ball, plus the Cats aren't gaining the advantage in TO% to help make up for the shooting deficiencies. K-State's 2 bad games against top 100 teams were dreadful, allowing GT and KU both to score at over 1.3 points per possession while K-State was .97 ppp or worse offensively. Against everyone else they've been okay on defense (no one over 1.03 PPP) which has been enough to make up for sub par shooting.
This is a game K-State should win at home. I think a favorable match-up for K-State and a home game will lead to a solid defensive performance in a game that will likely be played in the upper 60s possession wise. Both teams get over 1.00 ppp, but the Cats finish with and advantage somewhere near 1.10 to 1.03 ppp.
Cats 75 - Sooners 69
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:Woohoo:
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OU has the kind of lineup that our switch all ball screens 1-4 D can force in to some horrible shots late in shot clock. They are also a team Nino should be able to continue his run of great play against and I will be very concerned if we lose this one.
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The pace of this game will be really interesting.
OU has only played 2 games under 70 possessions (both at 67) and 6 games at 78 or more possessions.
The Cats have only played 1 game at 70 possessions (the win vs OSU) and only 6 of 67 possessions or more.
OU's defense also has allowed opponents to shoot a lot of 3s against them (37.8% of opponent shots), but with our shooting that may not matter.
In Big 12 games they are shooting nearly as well from 3 (41.6%) as they are from 2 (43.5%). Opponents are shooting 58.9% eFG and 61.7% on 2PT shots against them. One of the big keys to their 2 Big 12 wins was out oboarding Texas 46% to 26.7% and Iowa State 31.7% to 17.6%.
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How hard is it for writers to actually research pace and tempo free stats? Just a little bit? kenpom costs $20 a year and you can learn all you want to learn (and more). And I point out kenpom because its easy to use, has easily sortable stats, and you can search his blog to answer almost any question you could have.
(sorry for my rant on twitter if you follow, but sheesh.)
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SttB!
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I'm pretty excited for the game tonight. It seems like a really interesting match-up. My key to the game? Rebounding.
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i'm excited too (wildcat fan here) - glad we're playing at home so we don't have to listen to that damn sooner band!! :Yuck:
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i'm excited about the 6 pm start. plenty of bbs'ing time after the big win.
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i'm excited about the 6 pm start. plenty of bbs'ing time after the big win.
Tuesday night games are terrible for me, I'll probably only get to watch the first half.
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Never seen a team like OU, who relies so heavily on outside shooting, have much sustained success. especially on the road. I expecet our defense to show up at home. Hoping that Jevon, Foster and Nigel (if he gets any minutes) can get looks in the paint. OU's front court is really thin.
We'll see. our horrible FG% can be crippling. and if OU is shooting the ball well, we'll be in trouble.
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If they dictate pace, it will be interesting to see how our guys react to that speed and what that does to the defense, minutes played by certain ppl, and fouls.
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If they dictate pace, it will be interesting to see how our guys react to that speed and what that does to the defense, minutes played by certain ppl, and fouls.
My cautious optimism is that we handled a fairly fast paced game versus a more talented team in OSU (70 possessions) fairly well. We've been fairly good at dictating pace also as that was the highest paced game we've played all year.
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this should be a score or get fouled on every catch in the paint game for Gip
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this should be a score or get fouled on every catch in the paint game for Gip
I'll be disappointed if Gip doesn't have at least 15 tonight. I read a lot about Clarke being a tough match-up for us, (and he is) but Gip is an equally tough match-up for them. He's going to be about the same height, but have 20-30 pounds on each of their bigs.
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I point out kenpom because its easy to use, has easily sortable stats.
his site design is ridiculously good. he has the exact same data as are available free elsewhere and i basically have no interest in ever looking at a different site.
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I point out kenpom because its easy to use, has easily sortable stats.
his site design is ridiculously good. he has the exact same data as are available free elsewhere and i basically have no interest in ever looking at a different site.
Yep. Statsheet is terrible by comparison.
I like kenpom's new "frequent line-ups" feature. He adds cool stuff every year. And his blog is really good if you like reading about different stuff. Plus if you email him he'll always email back and answer questions.
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I hope our guys give a great effort and come out on top.
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when i think of ou, i think of mid range jumpers. so i hope our defense from about 10-18 feet is great tonight.
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when i think of ou, i think of mid range jumpers. so i hope our defense from about 10-18 feet is great tonight.
This is one of the best 3PT shooting teams Kruger has ever had. His first 2 teams at OU weren't big 3PT teams, only 22% and 27% of their shot attempts were 3s. This year they are really balanced; according to hoop-math.com 36.8% of their shots are at the rim, 37.9% are 2PT jumpers, and 33.3% are 3PT shots.
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I bet this game comes down to the final possession. I BET IT DOES!
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How has Jevon affected our pace? Sorry if this has been addressed somewhere else.
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How has Jevon affected our pace? Sorry if this has been addressed somewhere else.
No, there aren't really any noticeable trends since he's joined. His 5 games have been 54, 69, 70, 60, and 64 possessions, so all over the map really.
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when i think of ou, I think about 17, I think about my old jeep, I think about the stars in the sky
:D
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:lol:
holy crap luke
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:lol:
holy crap luke
has there ever been a more adorable luke post in the history of lukeEMAW.com? i think not!
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:lol:
holy crap luke
has there ever been a more adorable luke post in the history of lukeEMAW.com? i think not!
no, there hasn't. some won't get the reference at first (or at all), but that is truly an amazing post by luke.
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The fact that "my old jeep" works well to describe ou just completes it.
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OU has played 6 games away from home this year (5 of them neutral sites). They were on fire vs Texas from 3 (13-28). The other 5 games they are 24-88 (27.2%). Those 5 games 30% of the shots came from 3pt.
Of those 6 road/neutral games.... the first 4 games, they shot 50% once from 2pt and above 50% the other 3 gms. The last 2 games they shot 43% and 40%
A strength for us has been limiting our opp 3Pt attempts and teams have not shot good from 3 on us.... so its encouraging to see that OU away from home hasn't shot the 3 as well, with the exception of in Austin.
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SttB!
Cats 75 - Sooners 69
:Woot:
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:blush:
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not worried.
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As long as they don't put a thirty row section of families in the student section. . .I think we'll be alright. :runaway:
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As long as they don't put a thirty row section of families in the student section. . .I think we'll be alright. :runaway:
It won't fill up otherwise :dunno:
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As long as they don't put a thirty row section of families in the student section. . .I think we'll be alright. :runaway:
It won't fill up otherwise :dunno:
Touche Mr. Salesman, but I'd still take some rowdy 20 somethings in those front rows then small children.
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Pretty sure we just hit 5 threes in seven possessions around the 12 min mark in first half. Foster w three, will and wes both w one.
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wow, OU is one of the dirtiest teams we've played in years. obviously not as dirty as KthUg but damn these guys are playing prison rules. what a joke of a team.
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oscar = the master pace controller
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Spangler? more like dickheadler
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our defense is so bad tonight
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we're going to the NIT
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Where did this Spangles guy come from? Playing like a Burger Boy.
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we are getting absolutely crushed on the boards
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Where did this Spangles guy come from? Playing like a Burger Boy.
he came from spangles
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Can we get a non-yelly PA guy. Really tired of that guy.
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Westicles has been huge tonight
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Can we get a non-yelly PA guy. Really tired of that guy.
ya. i've been beating this drum for a couple of years. he's ridiculous.
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Great win. Sooner or later there will be games like these. We beat a ranked team on a night we played poorly and sit alone at second in the conference. 3-1 over the last four? Will take.
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Westicles has been huge tonight
11 pts, 6 reb, 3 ast, 0 TOs
He had the biggest shot of the night IMO. We were down 6 and really struggling. He hit his 3rd 3pt to get us going
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Great win. Sooner or later there will be games like these. We beat a ranked team on a night we played poorly and sit alone at second in the conference. 3-1 over the last four? Will take.
:thumbs: Great win for the Cats. Really showed your claws... just ask Spangles :Stretcher:
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Nino just needs to be on the + side of the good/stupid line every night. Think he managed to do that tonight
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Nino just needs to be on the + side of the good/stupid line every night. Think he managed to do that tonight
10 & 9. Did well when we needed him
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SttB!
Cats 75 - Sooners 69
:Woot:
6 points?? :horrorsurprise: (ftp://:horrorsurprise:)
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That's why _FAN is BITB. Probably needs to start a CBB betting thread with a tip jar in it :Ugh:
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Neither team shot well 2nd hf--- Ou 10-35, Kstate 8-28. We did hit 5 of our last 11 and OU missed 8 of final 9 shots
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That was a huge win you guys. Is there anything better than pulling out a victory when you were preparing yourself for a loss when down 6? Huge victory! HUGE!!!
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Completely agree...he should be taking all of the 12.5 minutes per game Omari is averaging plus his own
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i was yelling so hard you guys. the two non bald refs were making me so mad you guys. :curse:
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Completely agree...he should be taking all of the 12.5 minutes per game Omari is averaging plus his own
Westicles is only playing 23 minutes a game as well. He could play another five minutes, and between him and nino, Omari will never have to see the floor again.
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Completely agree...he should be taking all of the 12.5 minutes per game Omari is averaging plus his own
They don't play the same position. (nor, at times, the same sport).
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
3-15 for his career :gocho:
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Completely agree...he should be taking all of the 12.5 minutes per game Omari is averaging plus his own
They don't play the same position. (nor, at times, the same sport).
I don't care what position they play. I want the best players on the court...at all times.
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Completely agree...he should be taking all of the 12.5 minutes per game Omari is averaging plus his own
They don't play the same position. (nor, at times, the same sport).
I don't care what position they play. I want the best players on the court...at all times.
And let's not act like Nino wouldn't be an upgrade at SF over Omari. Typing that hurts, says a lot about our wing recruiting.
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Nino has a nice 15 ft shot, but the 3pt shot is just not in his arsenal anymore. There are times like tonight when he is our sparkplug. He isn't always gonna play this well, but his energy boost can be much needed on certain nights
Omari's minutes are a waste. We could have Shane play the 3 and Nino the 4 (instead of Omari 3 and Nino 4). That is one option, then the other is go 3 guards (Foster at the 3) while Westicles is on the bench
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Nino could easily be the Big 12 6th Man of the Year. I wish he'd take more 3's though. I remember him shooting and making a few his freshman year. This is the second win in 4 games that he's sealed with free throws.
Nino has a nice 15 ft shot, but the 3pt shot is just not in his arsenal anymore. There are times like tonight when he is our sparkplug. He isn't always gonna play this well, but his energy boost can be much needed on certain nights
Omari's minutes are a waste. We could have Shane play the 3 and Nino the 4 (instead of Omari 3 and Nino 4). That is one option, then the other is go 3 guards (Foster at the 3) while Westicles is on the bench
That would mean playing Nigel, which apparently oscar isn't willing to do anymore.
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big picture thought: it's year two of oscar in what most would call a rebuilding year, and we just beat a top 25 team in a game that felt like we didn't play very well (although we did shoot pretty well overall)
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big picture thought: it's year two of oscar in what most would call a rebuilding year, and we just beat a top 25 team in a game that felt like we didn't play very well (although we did shoot pretty well overall)
I thought we defended well, but yeah its a point well taken
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big picture thought: it's year two of oscar in what most would call a rebuilding year, and we just beat a top 25 team in a game that felt like we didn't play very well (although we did shoot pretty well overall)
Feels pretty rough ridin' good, bud. Now let's get Sprads to graduation ASAP.
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The only thing we did poorly was defensive boards. They were at 39.6 OR%.... but that number was higher until the final 10 minutes. We acutally got 9 defensive boards to their 2 off boards in those final 10 minutes
We outshot them 53.0 to 38.6 on eFG%. They had 4 fewer TOs, and FT shooting was pretty similar (we just got 7 more FTAs)
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when i think of ou, I think about 17, I think about my old jeep, I think about the stars in the sky
:D
OMG
:lol: :lol:
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when i think of ou, I think about 17, I think about my old jeep, I think about the stars in the sky
:D
OMG
:lol: :lol:
yes, thanks for the bump. i've had "when i think of ou" in my head ever since he posted this gem.
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How does MIR hate Nino? So weird. Have you seen him smile, MIR? Have you?
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How does MIR hate Nino? So weird. Have you seen him smile, MIR? Have you?
Nino makes a lot of awkward shots and that bothers some people. (Not me.)
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How does MIR hate Nino? So weird. Have you seen him smile, MIR? Have you?
He's friends and affiliated with Spradling. MIR and Trim can't let this go away.
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Also, he's our highest rated recruit on the team. Think about that.
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Don't want to fire up the Officiating thread again, so I'll put this here.
Wtf was the story with Westicles's over the back call and Gip's non-shooting foul, both late in the second half. Both seemed pretty blatant errors from my seat. Did they show replays on TV?
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According to the phog, we got all the calls tonight. :dubious:
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over the back call was pretty weak but it was poorly officiated fairly evenly.
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who cares. rules to going to a kstate game...
1)boo
2)boo louder
3)yell at refs and tell them they suck
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Don't want to fire up the Officiating thread again, so I'll put this here.
Wtf was the story with Westicles's over the back call and Gip's non-shooting foul, both late in the second half. Both seemed pretty blatant errors from my seat. Did they show replays on TV?
Since Gip caught the ball in the air and never released it, I can see why it wasn't called a shooting foul. Was hard to say for sure that he was trying to shoot, although I thought he was.
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Don't want to fire up the Officiating thread again, so I'll put this here.
Wtf was the story with Westicles's over the back call and Gip's non-shooting foul, both late in the second half. Both seemed pretty blatant errors from my seat. Did they show replays on TV?
Since Gip caught the ball in the air and never released it, I can see why it wasn't called a shooting foul. Was hard to say for sure that he was trying to shoot, although I thought he was.
I mean, why else would he be touching the ball to the rim with his outstretched arms?
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who cares. rules to going to a kstate game...
1)boo
2)boo louder
3)yell at refs and tell them they suck
Words to live by, folks. Even if the refs are pretty good.
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It's official I'm putting money down on _fans predictos from now on
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We would have crushed them if Gip would have showed up.
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We would have crushed them if Gip would have showed up.
he seemed pretty down while everyone was happy after the game
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Oh man guys...one thing that everybody can love about Nino is that sweet baseline jumper that he and Gip have down to a science. If there's anyone on the team that has to shoot the midrange baseline J, then it's one of those two that I want with the ball.
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I enjoyed watching the game so much last night that I'm re-watching it this morning. Hope we win again.
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Another road game and even for me at this point its hard to be confident for a win. OU has really good offense and below average defense. K-State hasn't been nearly as good at controlling pace on the road and the only team we've held under 1.07 ppp is TCU. Most likely K-State is going to have to score at a rate of 1.10-1.15 to win in Norman. K-State will likely have to win the battle of TO% and/or OR% to have a shot and its likely that will finish even or an advantage for OU and I have a hard time thinking the Cats will outshoot OU in Norman. With limited minutes from one of our most experience players, it only gets tougher. With a win, the Cats are in a legitimate battle for 2nd in the league, a loss probably relegates K-State to 5th.
Cats 67 - Sooners 73
:frown:
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You landed on the wrong side of the fence when you fell off it.
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i dont like that attitude one bit _fan
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Someone get dobber in here. I need to hear from someone who thinks we'll win 'em all
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Someone get dobber in here. I need to hear from someone who thinks we'll win 'em all
im no dobber(aspiring to be) but i can pump you some sunshine, we will beat ou and fairly easily
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i dont like that attitude one bit _fan
Me neither. I want to believe, but the road woes have got to me.
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We have won @ TCU. Death, taxes, and KSU losing on the road.
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Oh look here comes Zacker! His house is on that side of the fence.
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my view is that it's not so much road versus home as much as it is how we play good teams versus average/mediocre/bad teams.
our young team plays up (and down) to the competition and i think we will again tomorrow.
cats 76, sooners 71
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my view is that it's not so much road versus home as much as it is how we play good teams versus average/mediocre/bad teams.
our young team plays up (and down) to the competition and i think we will again tomorrow.
cats 76, sooners 71
skipped right to the bottom
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I also think we play up and down to our competition. But with limited shane, and with Westicles being horrible the last few games, I think OU gets us unless nino and Omari both have ridic games.
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The 1 thing that may give us a chance is OU's defense is not very good at home. Most teams are gonna play better defense at home in comparison to the road. OU gives up 1.08 ppp and 52.2 eFG at home (they have better numbers on the road)
Last year OU was a pretty good offensive team too. We played a slower game down there(59 poss) and held them to 0.85ppp. That was the only time they were below 1.07 at home in Big 12. This year, our team is better on D, even if they are not real good on the road. oscar has shut down Lonnie's OU team (0.95 in 3 games). But i think it is gonna be tough to hold OU's offense way below their average, so I agree with FAN that the offense has to be productive against this Sooner D
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Not scientific, but I still hate the OU sweep of the 'Cats 2 years ago, and would like to think it wouldn't be a statistical anomaly for us to return the favor this year.