goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Powercat Posse on December 29, 2013, 12:15:37 AM
-
17.4 yds per completion
14 pass TDs (18 total TD) 4 ints
I still think we should play both QBs next year, and I think Sams will be a big part of this team next year. But 17.4 per completion, the Waters-Haters need to take a chill.
-
Love Sams, but if Waters plays like this consistently he'll be drafted, and get every relevant minute of playing time.
-
Guys, not the time or place yet. Enjoy the win.
-
Guys, not the time or place yet. Enjoy the win.
:thumbs:
-
Guys, not the time or place yet. Enjoy the win.
:thumbs:
:thumbs: :thumbs:
-
Based on performace last night, it was like, "Why are they even putting Sams in there at all?" Even when they put him in as a goal line specialist, he was totally outperformed by Waters on the goal line.
-
Based on performace last night, it was like, "Why are they even putting Sams in there at all?" Even when they put him in as a goal line specialist, he was totally outperformed by Waters on the goal line.
sad, but true.
-
Guys, not the time or place yet. Enjoy the win.
-
If Lockett catches that TD that SAMs put in his bread basket it's a different story.
-
If Lockett catches that TD that SAMs put in his bread basket it's a different story.
Yea, this place would be a non-stop party of QB awesomeness. Shame really
-
If Lockett catches that TD that SAMs put in his bread basket it's a different story.
Yea, this place would be a non-stop party of QB awesomeness. Shame really
it was devastating to me. I couldn't believe it. then the fumble....
but hey, cats won the battle.
-
If Lockett catches that TD that SAMs put in his bread basket it's a different story.
Yea, this place would be a non-stop party of QB awesomeness. Shame really
it was devastating to me. I couldn't believe it. then the fumble....
but hey, cats won the battle.
Was super sad over that two play series of events.
-
Yep. Especially because that pass was as well placed as any pass off the night. It was perfect.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
-
So, Jake performs better in the red zone (allegedly) for a game and we shouldn't play Sams?
:facepalm:
-
The last seven blah, blah, but last night was the first game Jake didn't go into an extended 3-and-out funk. It was far and away his best game and the only one that justifies his enshrinement as No. 1 QB.
If Sams makes strides or big strides in the next eight months, I don't know how he doesn't get time behind center.
-
I think our fans generally underestimate how good our offenses are
-
Outside of the Sams fumble (that hurt), I honestly thought both QB's performed well. Even Sams should had that passing TD, the one where somehow, Lockett dropped it, and that pass was right on the money.
I honestly, thought that this game, they played the QB's strengths perfectly.
-
I think Sams actually checked out of whatever QB sweep Dana/Del wanted him to run and went balls out to Lockett.
-
I think our fans generally underestimate how good our offenses are
Agreed.
It’s not a surprise to see Baylor sitting atop the Big 12 in yards per play. The Bears were one of college football’s most creative and versatile offenses while averaging 7.58 yards per play this season.
The same can be said about the team that sits second in the conference. It brings an explosive, balanced offense that is difficult to prepare for and always has a creative wrinkle. That team? Kansas State.
http://espn.go.com/blog/big12/post/_/id/77848/creativity-drives-ksus-offense
-
I think our fans generally underestimate how good our offenses are
yes, I remember at some point snyder had a crazy run of consecutive games with like 28+ points.
-
People around here know the numbers of each QB fine, but I only go by trends and what this season showed us for who this staff built this offense for...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg59%2F5131%2F52x3.png&hash=bff68083a1246297e24eb748b32badf67bd730f2)
The use of Sams correlates with the games Lockett missed most of the snaps, though it would've been interesting to see the balance at OSU had Lockett not gotten hurt. IMHO Sams was initially a change of pace against OSU to start that game and once Lockett got hurt and it was clear that Waters without him was ineffective, they stuck with Sams. Then the staff stuck with that formula when Lockett was out against Baylor. However, the overall plan from the time Waters became the starter, this team was built for the Waters to Lockett connection. That staff deviated from that when Lockett was hurt and it worked well, but this offense was never built to be for Sams. The rest of the season the trend is clear and they gradually turned the reigns back over to Waters. Its possible that Sams might have gotten dinged as some have speculated down the stretch, but Waters was going to get most of the snaps once Lockett was healthy.
This is a Waters/Lockett team and now the key is figuring out how to use Sams and if the staff thinks they have a back-up QB they can trust to move Sams full time to another spot, likely receiver.
It just all seems pretty clear from looking at that to me.
-
So, for the people who have trouble reconciling Snyder's decision to bench Sams in favor of Waters with his historical tendency to opt for more athletic QBs, just think of it in terms of him deciding to bench Sams in favor of one of his pets, Baby Lockett.
-
Loved that we kept getting crowd shots of future and past k-state stud Locketts last night
-
Jake the snake!
-
Jake the snake!
Jake Me Up Before You Go Go!
-
Outside of the Sams fumble (that hurt), I honestly thought both QB's performed well. Even Sams should had that passing TD, the one where somehow, Lockett dropped it, and that pass was right on the money.
I honestly, thought that this game, they played the QB's strengths perfectly.
You place commas in your sentences as if you are sprinkling raisins in your oatmeal. :D
-
Outside of the Sams fumble (that hurt), I honestly thought both QB's performed well. Even Sams should had that passing TD, the one where somehow, Lockett dropped it, and that pass was right on the money.
I honestly, thought that this game, they played the QB's strengths perfectly.
This exactly. I prefer Sams more, but you can't deny that Waters/ Lockett was great tonight. I still think that Sams has that throwing ability that is at or at least near Waters level, but if Waters plays this well I think he needs to stay under center for around half the snaps. But we also need to let Sams get those pass plays as well.
-
People around here know the numbers of each QB fine, but I only go by trends and what this season showed us for who this staff built this offense for...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg59%2F5131%2F52x3.png&hash=bff68083a1246297e24eb748b32badf67bd730f2)
The use of Sams correlates with the games Lockett missed most of the snaps, though it would've been interesting to see the balance at OSU had Lockett not gotten hurt. IMHO Sams was initially a change of pace against OSU to start that game and once Lockett got hurt and it was clear that Waters without him was ineffective, they stuck with Sams. Then the staff stuck with that formula when Lockett was out against Baylor. However, the overall plan from the time Waters became the starter, this team was built for the Waters to Lockett connection. That staff deviated from that when Lockett was hurt and it worked well, but this offense was never built to be for Sams. The rest of the season the trend is clear and they gradually turned the reigns back over to Waters. Its possible that Sams might have gotten dinged as some have speculated down the stretch, but Waters was going to get most of the snaps once Lockett was healthy.
This is a Waters/Lockett team and now the key is figuring out how to use Sams and if the staff thinks they have a back-up QB they can trust to move Sams full time to another spot, likely receiver.
It just all seems pretty clear from looking at that to me.
dat graph. :love:
-
The final numbers:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg545%2F6075%2Fmz5l.png&hash=35be791807b8c55a8d4a21e5c4989f08da961568)
FYI, Sams had the fewest attempts of any QB I left on the list at 53. The next fewest were Allen Webb at 94 and 105 in 04 and 05. Also, the list goes back to 93 for Snyder coached QBs.
-
Outside of the Sams fumble (that hurt), I honestly thought both QB's performed well. Even Sams should had that passing TD, the one where somehow, Lockett dropped it, and that pass was right on the money.
I honestly, thought that this game, they played the QB's strengths perfectly.
This exactly. I prefer Sams more, but you can't deny that Waters/ Lockett was great tonight. I still think that Sams has that throwing ability that is at or at least near Waters level, but if Waters plays this well I think he needs to stay under center for around half the snaps. But we also need to let Sams get those pass plays as well.
Did you watch us this year at all? If Sams was at the same level as Waters in terms of throwing ability, then he would have been on the field a lot more. Lockett 10 TDs in the final 7 games and Thompson ave over 17 yds per reception has a ton to do with Waters being able to get the ball down the field and stretch the defense. Just like everyone else, I like Sams. I want him involved next year, whether it be playing QB or playing QB/WR combo. That said, Jake needs to be taking a majority of the snaps at QB unless something changes before late Aug
-
I don't think you can say that Sams doesn't have the same throwing ability as Waters. He wasn't given the same opportunities to draw that conclusion.
-
It can't be said enough how lucky we are to have a guy like _FAN who provides an endless supply of data, numbers and graphics to aid in discussion. Truly a #1Cat.
-
I don't think you can say that Sams doesn't have the same throwing ability as Waters. He wasn't given the same opportunities to draw that conclusion.
I think the sample size albeit limited showed he (sams)is more accurate overall. I think waters statistically probably has a good edge on balls thrown 15+ yards in the air.
-
I don't think you can say that Sams doesn't have the same throwing ability as Waters. He wasn't given the same opportunities to draw that conclusion.
Sams ran the ball 3 times for every pass he attempted. Why do you think that is?? Even in 2011, when Klein was not a great passer and he carried the ball a ton.... he ran 317 times and attempted 281 passes.
for most of the year, Sams was around or above 70%, but for some reason, Bill did not want him throwing much or throwing the ball all over the field.
-
If Lockett catches that TD that SAMs put in his bread basket it's a different story.
Yea, this place would be a non-stop party of QB awesomeness. Shame really
it was devastating to me. I couldn't believe it. then the fumble....
but hey, cats won the battle.
No, denied. The Cats won the war; Sams lost a lone battle.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
Because the coaches are stupid. Except when they aren't.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I've seen it with my own eyes, chum. The eyes don't lie.
-
I don't think you can say that Sams doesn't have the same throwing ability as Waters. He wasn't given the same opportunities to draw that conclusion.
Sams ran the ball 3 times for every pass he attempted. Why do you think that is?? Even in 2011, when Klein was not a great passer and he carried the ball a ton.... he ran 317 times and attempted 281 passes.
for most of the year, Sams was around or above 70%, but for some reason, Bill did not want him throwing much or throwing the ball all over the field.
the conclusion is the coaches think he doesn't have the same ability. not that he doesn't have it. and what? Klein was all of a sudden a great passer in '12?
you can't say someone can't do something when they don't get the opportunity to do it, and in the limited opportunities he has done it, which is why the assertion the coaches' have is, imo, misguided based on results on the game field.
but Sams has done enough to not make him starting a definitive answer. But it hasn't been a fair competition.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successful team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
-
People around here know the numbers of each QB fine, but I only go by trends and what this season showed us for who this staff built this offense for...
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg59%2F5131%2F52x3.png&hash=bff68083a1246297e24eb748b32badf67bd730f2)
The use of Sams correlates with the games Lockett missed most of the snaps, though it would've been interesting to see the balance at OSU had Lockett not gotten hurt. IMHO Sams was initially a change of pace against OSU to start that game and once Lockett got hurt and it was clear that Waters without him was ineffective, they stuck with Sams. Then the staff stuck with that formula when Lockett was out against Baylor. However, the overall plan from the time Waters became the starter, this team was built for the Waters to Lockett connection. That staff deviated from that when Lockett was hurt and it worked well, but this offense was never built to be for Sams. The rest of the season the trend is clear and they gradually turned the reigns back over to Waters. Its possible that Sams might have gotten dinged as some have speculated down the stretch, but Waters was going to get most of the snaps once Lockett was healthy.
This is a Waters/Lockett team and now the key is figuring out how to use Sams and if the staff thinks they have a back-up QB they can trust to move Sams full time to another spot, likely receiver.
It just all seems pretty clear from looking at that to me.
The decline of snaps for Sams also correlates with the decline of diversity of play calling. The most frustrating thing about the season for me was not the number of snaps he had, it was frustrating but not the most frustrating for me, but whatthe coaches did with his snaps. At some point, I think it was when tlbl came back, the coaches decided Sams was John Riggins and just battered him into the line with every run call. They decided out fastest, most elusive runner shouldn't run in space, he was best between the tackles. Ultra stupid.
-
One thing I've been wondering is how each quarterback stacks up with regards to performance in different areas of the field. Just a simple passing chart with the width of the field divided into thirds and length of passes categorized as 0-10 yards, 11-20 yards and 20+ yards.
It's obvious that the coaches want Waters in there to take pressure off of the run game, but more importantly to get it to the deep threats downfield. Is he markedly better over a large portion of the chart, or areas of the field in general? He should have to be to take most of the snaps, imo. We can't watch practice, so we can't judge there. And obviously the smallish sample size for Sams would yield skeptical results when looking at a passing chart.
You might even be able to say that generally Sams would be more ideal for a Snyder offense, but that with this particular group getting the ball to Lockett, and to a lesser extent, the other pass catchers Waters' skills are more valued. That obviously does not settle the debate over whether or not Waters' passing game is actually that much better than Sams' is. I would wager to say that it probably is, I don't imagine that the coaches would deliberately put the wrong guy out there time after time.
-
Sams can audible into passing plays. He chooses not to. He chooses to call his own number, what did they say during the bowl broadcast, 80% of the time?
-
NDSU - 6.2
ULL - 6.4
UMASS - 7.9
UT - 5.7
OSU - 5.1
BU - 5.6
WVU - 7.0
ISU - 6.6
TTU - 6.6
TCU - 6.4
OU - 7.3
KU - 5.6
UM - 6.6
YPP in each game.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time? I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.
-
If you want to just look at offensive and defensive numbers the biggest problem with this year's team is simple; turnovers. (Both QBs had their share of problems with turnovers.)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.com%2Fa%2Fimg197%2F5268%2F2x8h.png&hash=5da207b8ab4fff34f0cd1e68cf2db2814c24421e)
I have neglected to share it, but in my chart of KSU career QB numbers one of the stats that I didn't point out is that Sams had the highest INT% (7.5%) of any quarterback that has played a significant number of snaps going back to 1993. Dunn's 7.1% in '01 is the only other Snyder QB over 6%.
That also might have contributed to who played QB and who didn't.
-
I don't think you can say that Sams doesn't have the same throwing ability as Waters. He wasn't given the same opportunities to draw that conclusion.
Sams ran the ball 3 times for every pass he attempted. Why do you think that is??
Well, he is clearly the best running QB Snyder has ever had, which could have something to do with it.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time? I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.
No. Will win.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time? I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.
No. Will win.
The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?
-
The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?
I'd say there are significant differences in our option game between now and then. Likely some differences in the passing game. College football has changed quite a bit in the last decade.
-
One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.
-
One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.
:facepalm:
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time? I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.
No. Will win.
The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?
Both predicated on a dual threat qb. The coaches seem better at adjusting a running qb offense than to a more passing qb offense.
-
I seriously don't understand how people think Sams is a much better runner and an equivalent passer when Waters gets so much more playing time. It makes no sense. But I guess that would explain why so many are so pissed off.
I think it's the idea that we haven't won a championship or been a successfuol team (i.e. 11+ wins) when we haven't had a dual threat QB. We haven't had a passing QB since May (Kavanaugh?) and our defense isn't as good as it was then (nor will the offenses today let it be). So, imo, it's hard to imagine that these coaches will figure out how to drive the porche (or whatever metaphoric car you want to use for a passing qb). And if it's hard to imagine that (because we haven't really seen it consistently) then there is a natural desire to have a dual threat qb - i.e. Sams.
So...imo, Sams' ability to run combined with his passing ability is greater than Water's ability to throw combined with his running ability. (given the back drop of our coaches being apes trying to figure out fire).
People think we would have won 11 games with Sams playing QB full time? I guess that's further explanation for why so many are so pissed.
No. Will win.
The offense with Klein was way different than the offense with Roberson, though, right?
Both predicated on a dual threat qb. The coaches seem better at adjusting a running qb offense than to a more passing qb offense.
That's too hocus pocusy for me to be on board with.
-
Seems that waters had a fairly typical juco learning curve.
-
Feels good to have been on the Jake Waters train from the get go, now all of you are eating crow.
-
He had 1 good game. Good grief. 1 game prior he was complete crap.
-
vs Baylor and Okie State, we had our top WR out, and we heavily shift our possessions at QB toward Sams. While, when we have our healthy WR, especially later in the season, we shift our possessions at QB more to Waters. If this doesn't say something, at least in regard to what our coaches think about the QB position, not sure what else would.
Also, for me to say that Waters probably throws a better ball than Sams and to think that our wideouts would better prefer Waters throwing them the ball, isn't beyond delusional.
-
vs Baylor and Okie State, we had our top WR out, and we heavily shift our possessions at QB toward Sams. While, when we have our healthy WR, especially later in the season, we shift our possessions at QB more to Waters. If this doesn't say something, at least in regard to what our coaches think about the QB position, not sure what else would.
Also, for me to say that Waters probably throws a better ball than Sams and to think that our wideouts would better prefer Waters throwing them the ball, isn't beyond delusional.
Agreed.
-
Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?
-
Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year. Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.
-
Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year. Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.
Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.
-
Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year. Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.
Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.
probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams.
-
Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year. Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.
Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.
probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams.
Which last night were incredibly unproductive.
-
Weird, considering Tramaine complained about Sams' lack of snaps earlier in the year. Sams is also clearly more liked among the players, and it's also pretty clear they follow his lead more than Jake's.
Have to disagree. The offense seems to click more when Jake's in. Rhythm and timing sems better.
probably because Bill runs 5 plays with Sams.
Which last night were incredibly unproductive.
Due to 3 holding and false starts by Lucas and a drop. 0% on Sams. Happens when Jake's in too. I'd also rather my QB miss deep balls instead of 8 yard curl routes.
-
Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?
Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range
-
Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?
Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range
We have one person on the team that can catch a pass over 10 yards? And Waters is ineffective when this player is not on the field? But is clearly our best option when the deep threat is on the field? And this all makes sense to people?
-
One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.
This is dumber than anything tim has ever posted.
I wish you weren't a cat fan, rough ridin' moron.
-
One thought haven't heard on here yet is the possibility that maybe our receivers, like TLBL, enjoy Waters at QB more than Sams. Would explain the obvious dropped pass with Sams in at QB, probably reaching here anyway.
This is dumber than anything tim has ever posted.
I wish you weren't a cat fan, rough ridin' moron.
It's true tho. ON OPPOSITE DAY.
-
Like, wouldn't the shitty receivers also benefit from a superior QB?
Not necessarily. Waters has struggled in the intermediate range passing game, but is successful with a home run threat (typically tlbl). Guys like Currie Sexton and TLBK are generally pretty solid across the middle in the 5-10 yard range
We have one person on the team that can catch a pass over 10 yards? And Waters is ineffective when this player is not on the field? But is clearly our best option when the deep threat is on the field? And this all makes sense to people?
I guess I just don't get what's confusing about the adjustments we hade to make without our top 2 receivers. Sams is the only reason those two games were even close, which is why it is so goddamn frustrating that the coaches made him completely one dimensional and thus ineffective. We knew Waters was "the guy" from day 1, and I am okay with that. I am not okay with how we used Sams this year.
-
I pretty much agree. I just don't understand how there can be enough of a gap between Sams and Waters that Waters gets 80% of snaps while Sams plays an uncreative version of the Wildcat when the loss of receiver or two completely flips the effectiveness.
-
I pretty much agree. I just don't understand how there can be enough of a gap between Sams and Waters that Waters gets 80% of snaps while Sams plays an uncreative version of the Wildcat when the loss of receiver or two completely flips the effectiveness.
Yep. 100% agree.
-
It's like, I love the idea of Sams. I would love for a true dual-threat to recreate Bishop/Roberson/Klein. But, the fact is that Sams isn't our QB, for reasons none of us will ever know. Hopefully Sharp can be that guy in 2015.
So, the only question IMO is whether Waters at QB and Sams at WR/RB/#2QB, can be a formula to delivering 9+ Ws in 2014. I say yes. Snake improved over the season and demolished Michigan with his arm and legs. I'm optimistic.
-
I think that 3rd and long scramble for a first when the pocket really collapsed around him is the first time Waters ever really avoided a sack and scrambled for a 1st down. He still goes down at the first contact. His flop is really weird. It's like he allows his legs to stay behind and falls forward in a very strange way.
-
I do totally place some blame on coaching staff for the utilization of Sams, especially for the plays with him in near end of season. But, after Bill's 1 month of extra practice or whatever, Waters looked significantly better than he has all year. No fumbles, no INTs, but Sams still turns it over once.
Who should be the QB for next year going forward, who knows, but after watching this bowl game I will go out and say I think Waters is the better option.
-
It's like, I love the idea of Sams. I would love for a true dual-threat to recreate Bishop/Roberson/Klein. But, the fact is that Sams isn't our QB, for reasons none of us will ever know. Hopefully Sharp can be that guy in 2015.
So, the only question IMO is whether Waters at QB and Sams at WR/RB/#2QB, can be a formula to delivering 9+ Ws in 2014. I say yes. Snake improved over the season and demolished Michigan with his arm and legs. I'm optimistic.
:nono:
Sams will be a senior in 2015.
-
It's like, I love the idea of Sams. I would love for a true dual-threat to recreate Bishop/Roberson/Klein. But, the fact is that Sams isn't our QB, for reasons none of us will ever know. Hopefully Sharp can be that guy in 2015.
So, the only question IMO is whether Waters at QB and Sams at WR/RB/#2QB, can be a formula to delivering 9+ Ws in 2014. I say yes. Snake improved over the season and demolished Michigan with his arm and legs. I'm optimistic.
:nono:
Sams will be a senior in 2015.
Oh yeah. It's gonna be tricky tho. I doubt he can be the #2QB and, at the same time, a full time WR. I imagine it's going to be kind of an either/or scenario. I dunno. so, if they convert him to WR in '14, does he then come back to QB in 15? Seems unlikely.
-
Why is everyone so scared of making Sams a full time WR? It's the best scenario for everyone in the short term and long term given how enamored we are with Jake. What Sams needs is maximum reps at QB or none at all.
Just give up on this Sams at QB dream if you're unwilling to fully commit to it.
-
FWIW, at this point, Waters is #14 nationally in QBR at this point between Braxton Miller and David Carr.
He could fluctuate a little bit up or down based on the next week of games, but because a lot of guys in front of him are graduating or going pro (i.e. Manziel, Bridgewater), he's probably going to be one of the best 5-7 QB's returning in 2014 based on QBR.
-
Who should be the QB for next year going forward, who knows, but after watching this bowl game I will go out and say I think Waters is the better option.
I've stopped looking at as 'who's the better option.' We know which option the coaches have chosen. And that doesn't appear to be changing.
So, the only question IMO, is whether the Waters option will put us in contention for the Conference in 2014.
-
Why is everyone so scared of making Sams a full time WR? It's the best scenario for everyone in the short term and long term given how enamored we are with Jake. What Sams needs is maximum reps at QB or none at all.
Just give up on this Sams at QB dream if you're unwilling to fully commit to it.
People are scared b/c they don't want to give up on the Sams @ QB dream.
It's pretty obvious, he's changing positions tho. So, yeah, they need to commit to this fully. Make Ertz the backup. I still think WR Sams could play the wildcat.
-
FWIW, at this point, Waters is #14 nationally in QBR at this point between Braxton Miller and David Carr.
He could fluctuate a little bit up or down based on the next week of games, but because a lot of guys in front of him are graduating or going pro (i.e. Manziel, Bridgewater), he's probably going to be one of the best 5-7 QB's returning in 2014 based on QBR.
Umm.... according to espn he is #47 in adjusted QBR and #57 in raw QBR.
-
FWIW, at this point, Waters is #14 nationally in QBR at this point between Braxton Miller and David Carr.
He could fluctuate a little bit up or down based on the next week of games, but because a lot of guys in front of him are graduating or going pro (i.e. Manziel, Bridgewater), he's probably going to be one of the best 5-7 QB's returning in 2014 based on QBR.
Umm.... according to espn he is #47 in adjusted QBR and #57 in raw QBR.
http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/player/split01/category02/sort02.html (http://www.cfbstats.com/2013/leader/national/player/split01/category02/sort02.html)
http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating (http://espn.go.com/college-football/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/collegeQuarterbackRating)
I see that you went for ESPN's total QBR. I haven't dug into that yet. I'll have to see what Football Outsiders has, too.
-
FWIW, at this point, Waters is #14 nationally in QBR at this point between Braxton Miller and David Carr.
He could fluctuate a little bit up or down based on the next week of games, but because a lot of guys in front of him are graduating or going pro (i.e. Manziel, Bridgewater), he's probably going to be one of the best 5-7 QB's returning in 2014 based on QBR.
Umm.... according to espn he is #47 in adjusted QBR and #57 in raw QBR.
Dude, that's passer efficiency not QBR
My bad.
-
Why is everyone so scared of making Sams a full time WR? It's the best scenario for everyone in the short term and long term given how enamored we are with Jake. What Sams needs is maximum reps at QB or none at all.
Just give up on this Sams at QB dream if you're unwilling to fully commit to it.
I agree with this. however it puts us in quite the pickle in two years. Especially since the one of the "reasons" for Waters being QB will graduate too.
-
I see that you went for ESPN's total QBR. I haven't dug into that yet. I'll have to see what Football Outsiders has, too.
I like the concept of QBR, but I put a bunch of links in another thread with legitimate critiques of ESPN's methodology in putting the ranking together.
-
I see that you went for ESPN's total QBR. I haven't dug into that yet. I'll have to see what Football Outsiders has, too.
I like the concept of QBR, but I put a bunch of links in another thread with legitimate critiques of ESPN's methodology in putting the ranking together.
I have just started getting into ADV stats in football. There are a lot of really good team stats, but individual stats don't really work for me right now, nor do I know where to get really good ones.
That said, I always call PE Rating QBR in football because I'm lazy and don't care.
-
God, I hope Ertz isnt our QB in 2015.
-
God, I hope Ertz isnt our QB in 2015.
He probably won't be.
-
Waters should be an absolute freak next year, he should have better targets. From my understanding Andre Davis is an absolute freak. Just a flat out speed demon should fill TripleEffingTs shoes and more. Deante Burton / Vernon Vaughn should be better then Toe and we will also have another burner in LeAndrew Gordon.
-
Waters should be an absolute freak next year, he should have better targets. From my understanding Andre Davis is an absolute freak. Just a flat out speed demon should fill TripleEffingTs shoes and more. Deante Burton / Vernon Vaughn should be better then Toe and we will also have another burner in LeAndrew Gordon.
Better work on making Michigan the norm rather than the outlier. Time to go to work.
Also, tighten up those TO's, son.
-
Waters should be an absolute freak next year, he should have better targets. From my understanding Andre Davis is an absolute freak. Just a flat out speed demon should fill TripleEffingTs shoes and more. Deante Burton / Vernon Vaughn should be better then Toe and we will also have another burner in LeAndrew Gordon.
pissklams, confirmo?
-
Waters should be an absolute freak next year, he should have better targets. From my understanding Andre Davis is an absolute freak. Just a flat out speed demon should fill TripleEffingTs shoes and more. Deante Burton / Vernon Vaughn should be better then Toe and we will also have another burner in LeAndrew Gordon.
pissklams, confirmo?
Can't confirm the reliability of the information. But at a neighborhood gathering (co-worker attended), current player alluded that Ertz is a stud. Might be what they need move Sams to WR/3rd string QB (not my words) :cry:
-
I bet 4 more pages and some additional graphs/statistics should convince you of nothing.
-
I think the only way Sams plays receiver is if he lines up as WR for like, two plays per quarter and is still QB2.
-
I think the only way Sams plays receiver is if he lines up as WR for like, two plays per quarter and is still QB2.
:thumbsup: Don't see a RS Sophomore starting in 2015, so Sam remains in his role but it expands.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small HS football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY his senior year, as well.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
I'm listening.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
Sharp was too, at a higher level. He looks like a more refined version of Sams.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
Sharp was too, at a higher level. He looks like a more refined version of Sams.
I had to change my quote. I made a few mistakes in there (i.e. college instead of high school, last year instead of Sr year).
I'm very intrigued by Sharp. I think he was a tremendous pickup. I think he and Ertz will have a really, really great QB battle in 2016.
I still think Sams gets the job in 2015.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
I'm listening.
IOWA FOOTBALL POY: JESSE ERTZ
SHARE (0)TWEET (0)EMAILMORE
For a list of the other Gatorade State Football Player of the Year winners, click here.
THE WINNER: Jesse Ertz
THE BASICS
School: Mediapolis (Iowa)
Grade: Senior
Position: Quarterback
Height: 6-foot-3
Weight: 190 pounds
THE PILLARS
Athletic achievement: He threw for 2,613 yards and 45 touchdowns against just two interceptions this past season, leading the Bulldogs (13-1) to the Class 2A state championship game. A returning Class 2A First Team All-State selection as named by the Des Moines Register, Ertz also rushed for 1,063 yards and 14 touchdowns on 98 carries. His 98 career passing touchdowns set an Iowa state record, breaking current University of Iowa quarterback James Vandenberg’s previous state record of 93.
Academic excellence: Ertz has maintained a 3.11 GPA in the classroom.
Exemplary character: In addition to donating his time as a youth football and basketball instructor, he has volunteered locally on behalf of 4-H and Future Farmers of America. Ertz has also participated in a youth literacy-outreach program and performed snow removal for both his church and area elderly.
THE PRAISE
“He obviously is a great quarterback, and I have nothing but glowing things to say about this young man,” said Ben Slife, head coach of rival West Liberty (Iowa). “He exemplifies everything that is great about high school athletics. He absolutely killed us in the two games that we played against him. He was never a showman. He acted with class the entire game, and I have the utmost respect for him and the Mediapolis football team.”
THE FUTURE: Ertz has verbally committed to play football on an athletic scholarship at Kansas State University beginning in the fall of 2013.
-
80/20 Waters/Sams, with Sams at WR when he's not QB.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
Sharp was too, at a higher level. He looks like a more refined version of Sams.
I had to change my quote. I made a few mistakes in there (i.e. college instead of high school, last year instead of Sr year).
I'm very intrigued by Sharp. I think he was a tremendous pickup. I think he and Ertz will have a really, really great QB battle in 2016.
I still think Sams gets the job in 2015.
I do too, kinda weird how easily people are giving up on him completely as a QB though he AND Jake have made massive improvements. Sharp seems smarter than Sams with the ball and he could be really good. I hope Ertz is a stud too, but I wanna be able to run more with the QB than we could this year.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
Sharp was too, at a higher level. He looks like a more refined version of Sams.
I had to change my quote. I made a few mistakes in there (i.e. college instead of high school, last year instead of Sr year).
I'm very intrigued by Sharp. I think he was a tremendous pickup. I think he and Ertz will have a really, really great QB battle in 2016.
I still think Sams gets the job in 2015.
I do too, kinda weird how easily people are giving up on him completely as a QB though he AND Jake have made massive improvements. Sharp seems smarter than Sams with the ball and he could be really good. I hope Ertz is a stud too, but I wanna be able to run more with the QB than we could this year.
The trend of QB running typically trends down each year that a QB returns. We throw more and run less.
Ertz can run. The only reason his team didn't win state his SR year is because he tore his ACL (I think that's what it was...) in the semifinals.
Sharp is incredibly fast. His arm, while accurate, is not that strong from the limited video that I've seen. That can obviously change once we get him on campus.
Ertz/Sharp will be the next great QB debate we have. It's a high class problem.
-
Sams at QB in 2015(and 2014 if it was my decision). Sharp in 2016, I want nothing to do with Ertz. Dual threat studs>>> 2 star white pocket passers from Iowa with 0 FBS offers and one D3 offer or something.
Ertz played small college football, so he was overlooked.
Granted, it was small high school, but he was a wrecking ball that scored a gazillion TD's and broke the Iowa state record for them in all classes.
I believe he was the Iowa Gatorade POY last year, as well.
Sharp was too, at a higher level. He looks like a more refined version of Sams.
I had to change my quote. I made a few mistakes in there (i.e. college instead of high school, last year instead of Sr year).
I'm very intrigued by Sharp. I think he was a tremendous pickup. I think he and Ertz will have a really, really great QB battle in 2016.
I still think Sams gets the job in 2015.
I do too, kinda weird how easily people are giving up on him completely as a QB though he AND Jake have made massive improvements. Sharp seems smarter than Sams with the ball and he could be really good. I hope Ertz is a stud too, but I wanna be able to run more with the QB than we could this year.
The trend of QB running typically trends down each year that a QB returns. We throw more and run less.
Ertz can run. The only reason his team didn't win state his SR year is because he tore his ACL (I think that's what it was...) in the semifinals.
Sharp is incredibly fast. His arm, while accurate, is not that strong from the limited video that I've seen. That can obviously change once we get him on campus.
Ertz/Sharp will be the next great QB debate we have. It's a high class problem.
That's what Ive noticed on tape. Not a great arm, but solid. Hopefully one of the two will be TD machines. I havent watched tape on Ertz, so admittedly I jumped the gun on judging him.