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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: wabash909 on December 14, 2013, 10:30:05 PM
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This is real.
Basketball ambivalence.. Situation improving.
Earlier today I met five buddies for lunch in a big sports bar in Williamsburg, Virginia. We are all former federal investigators and all are Vietnam combat vets. One, an African American, is a former pole vaulter at Oregon, and all of us played organized sports at some level.
While enjoying beer and steaks, Arizona and Michigan were playing basketball, while alongside a re-run of Ohio State and Michigan State was airing. I couldn't help but notice that all of us were mostly paying attention to a football game wherein the the outcome was known rather than a basketball game involving the country's top collegiate team; so I conducted an informal poll as to who routinely (often) watches basketball, college or pro? Not a single hand went up; nor did I raise mine.
As background, I went to KSU in the late 60's, and Jack Hartman was our coach. In four years, I did not miss a single game where I could help it, and afterwards I closely followed the career of Lon Kruger. Then, imperceptibly, I found that I did not care as much anymore about basketball, and although I read the morning paper (wherever ) to see how my school was doing on the hardwoods, it did not pain me to see the 'Cats lose as much as if it was a football game--when a loss could send me into a deep funk.
Now, why do some guys of my generation often shun watching basketball--especially pro ball? My non-empircal study today reflects that most of us feel the team-centered, play-by -the-rules basketball we knew and played in our youth has morphed into something else altogether. And although I can't quite put my finger on the precise reasons for our ambivalence, most of us believe that individual "hot-doggism" today has taken over in some corners. Further, there are too many renegade coaches who specialize in exhibiting gross behavioral conduct that of course leads to rude and obnoxious behavior in their players. ("Character and fair play be damed; let's win this f...... ball game.")
So after reading the above, you might ask this old and proud K-Stater, "Well, now what did you think of Frank Martin?"
Easy answer, in three parts... I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.
And best wishes to Coach oscar Weber and his young team. A gentleman is now back at the helm, and I'm again watching K-State basketball.
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"hot-doggism"
:D
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I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.
:opcat:
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jfc
I wonder how many times the author included something about spicy latin flair and edited it out.
Also I wonder how he squares his circle with Bill Self and Tom Izzo how never cuss, yell, or bang clip boards, evar!
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I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.
:opcat:
AND starts off with a statement that one of his buds is black. :sdeek:
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this would have made me very :curse: a couple years ago.
now.. :blank:
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this would have made me very :curse: a couple years ago.
now.. :blank:
you are hot-doggish on this blog
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I can't wait till @luke finds this thread and just starts setting rough ridin' fires
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My God, this is Morgan to McDermott all over again. :opcat:
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I still can't believe he was hired at Kansas State. I am thrilled he is gone. And I sincerely hope his like never again darkens our doorstep.
:opcat:
That post was filled with code
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A different tuck perspective, I was a student when Hartman coached as well, I hated loosing Frank, Bruceket ball sucks and I will never forgive Currie for not making the necessary relational changes to keep Frank around longer. Between Kruger and Huggins, we were in purgatory and we are headed there again.
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A different tuck perspective, I was a student when Hartman coached as well, I hated loosing Frank, Bruceket ball sucks and I will never forgive Currie for not making the necessary relational changes to keep Frank around longer. Between Kruger and Huggins, we were in purgatory and we are headed there again.
Tuck has nothing to do with age. The biggest tucks in the EMAW game; mike tuckfano, ksu winter, cocktail waitress in vegas, merv, et al are young enough to be your kids.
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Well maybe not cocktail waitress is vegas, she's like 40. Replace her with riley gates and that trenton kid.
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Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths. There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.
Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life. Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been :horrorsurprise: about.
I :lol: at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.
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Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths. There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.
Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life. Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been :horrorsurprise: about.
I :lol: at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.
Jack Hartman was a SAINT! You son of a bitch.
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Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths. There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.
Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life. Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been :horrorsurprise: about.
I :lol: at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.
our dumbass fans think snyder is mother teresa. from what i can tell, he is a terrible human being.
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Darkening a doorstep refers to a person's shadow, not to their skin.
My dad is very offended by hot-doggism. He even threw hotdogs at opposing players when he was at Fort Hays in the 70s. Even though he uses the term broadly today, I'd bet that black athletes received a majority of the well processed meats. :sdeek:
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there were less than 4k at the game today.
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Darkening a doorstep refers to a person's shadow, not to their skin.
My dad is very offended by hot-doggism. He even threw hotdogs at opposing players when he was at Fort Hays in the 70s. Even though he uses the term broadly today, I'd bet that black athletes received a majority of the well processed meats. :sdeek:
That was the least coded line in that post.
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did anyone set this loser straight?
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Funny thing is, many of the coaches "back-in-the-day" were huge cheaters/toss their mother in front of the bus to win/major hard ass psychopaths. There just wasn't the Internet and communications systems like we have today.
Jack Hartman (for example) was not, I repeat NOT a nice man in practice, behind the scenes and at times in his personal life. Things happened during Jack Hartman's tenure (again, for example) that even guys like Bobby Knight would have been :horrorsurprise: about.
I :lol: at post like this because as they story goes, if those walls could talk.
Hartman hated, HATED the Wildkittens basketball team for interfering with his free use of Ahearn. Tried to make their lives miserable. Made it very odd that decades later he ended up being the interim coach for the women's team for part of a season.
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I wasn't happy that Frank Martin left, though I don't think he was as great as some folks make him out to be. I also don't hate the oscar Weber hire.
Not sure where to call home.
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I wasn't happy that Frank Martin left, though I don't think he was as great as some folks make him out to be. I also don't hate the oscar Weber hire.
Not sure where to call home.
The football board from the sounds of it. woof.
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Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be
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Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be
He was a good coach. Worse than Huggins, no better or worse than Kruger. <-- I feel like people make him out to be more than this.
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Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be
He was a good coach. Worse than Huggins, no better or worse than Kruger.
precisely
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Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be
He was a good coach. Worse than Huggins, no better or worse than Kruger. <-- I feel like people make him out to be more than this.
you've pedaled this out there quite a few times. so was dana a better coach at ksu than martin? while a coach at KSU, martin > huggs. i'd argue that martin was > kruger based on where each finished in the league (as a % of # of teams in the league).
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If we could take any of them to be our coach now, I'd pick in this order: Huggins, Kruger, Martin, Altman. I don't have an absolute rebuttal for anyone who picks Martin over Kruger, but I happen to feel more comfortable with Kruger's demonstrated ability to win over a longer period of time.
Huggins is just a HOF coach. No shame that the other guys don't measure up. And if we're just talking about what Huggins did in his one year at KSU, I still put him on top of that list. He absolutely rebuilt the place from scratch, bringing in top recruits and winning with what we already had here. I have little doubt we would've done better in Beasley's year if Huggins was coach. And at least equally as well as Martin did thereafter. But, hey, I can't prove that, so...
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Huggins, Martin, WGAF.
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Weber could turn out to be better than Martin. He's off to a good start.
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The sad thing about this tale is that we broke in 3 coaches that all made the NCAA tournament and let them all get away.
We have a tendency to take a CHANCE on an unproven coach and then let them get away when they are just starting to get settled into coaching.
Altman had a year at Marshall before he started coaching here?
Frank Martin was a really good High School basketball coach.
Kruger didn't have much of a track record either. He was 20-8 with texas pan american in 1987.
Frank still has a chance to prove himself better than Lon and Altman if he improve his recruiting and or coaching (Kruger and Altman did that in my opinion).
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I wasn't happy that Frank Martin left, though I don't think he was as great as some folks make him out to be. I also don't hate the oscar Weber hire.
Not sure where to call home.
The football board from the sounds of it. woof.
nope we don't want him either
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Altman should not be in the conversation of being a "good" coach at K-State. Later yes, but his K-State record speaks for itself even with a tournament appearance and nit run.
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I think pretty much any white person that uses African-American instead of Black is probably racist.
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I think pretty much any white person that uses African-American instead of Black is probably racist.
crap
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Frank was precisely as great as everyone made him out to be
He was a good coach. Worse than Huggins, no better or worse than Kruger. <-- I feel like people make him out to be more than this.
Frank brought much more to K-State than being a successful coach. We were nationally relevant to the media not solely due to him but largely due to his personality, antics, quotability. Choice TV slots, talking heads discussion etc have vanished with oscar's arrival. No rough ridin' way Frank lets his team lose to rough ridin' Lasalle in the first round either.
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I think pretty much any white person that uses African-American instead of Black is probably racist.
I lol a lot at white people who think the word black is racist. Nothing is more hilariously awkward than someone trying to describe someone who is black to me and are paralyzed by the word black.