Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
these make me sad :frown:
hoiberg is a stud. took a chance on questionable transfers (like frank) and lets them play a fun style of basketball. coaching basketball doesn't have to be hard, i'm not sure why so many coaches make it that way.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
these make me sad :frown:
Should make you mad.
Haven't seen UT but it looks like their young bigs are playing pretty well - prolly an 0-2 just that match up alone.
If Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
If Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.
oscar is a good enough coach and a bad enough one
Quote from: The one and only ksu_FENCEoscar is a good enough coach and a bad enough one
I think the potential to lose this team is pretty high. The early conference schedule is very toughIf Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.
| 01/04/14 vs. Oklahoma State TV Bramlage Coliseum 3:00 PM CT 01/07/14 at TCU TV Fort Worth, Texas 7:00 PM CT 01/11/14 at Kansas TV Lawrence, Kan. 1:00 PM CT 01/14/14 vs. Oklahoma TV Bramlage Coliseum 6:00 PM CT 01/18/14 vs. West Virginia TV Bramlage Coliseum 12:30 PM CT 01/21/14 at Texas TV Austin, Texas 6:00 PM CT 01/25/14 at Iowa State TV Ames, Iowa 12:30 PM CT |
If Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.
I don't know how we rebound or score enough points to have it make a difference. Unless Shane turns in to Rodney McGruder we are screwed because our bigs our undersized and underskilled and our swings and guards are not good at distribution (besides Shane) or shooting (besides Shane and Foster).
I mean it is possible that Foster and Jevon somehow just relentlessly drive to the rim and will us to a victory, but that seems unlikely.
Good rebounding isn't really a necessary ingredient for oscar teams to win, at least it was never my perception that it was. He has been good at getting his guards and wings to crash the boards to make up for less than stellar post rebounding. It would be my expectation that's what he'll do again.
Scoring will be an issue. My guess is they'll slow the pace way down come conference play and hope to limit scoring oppies for the other side and try to win ugly.
I think this team will improve on defense. If they get to 8 or 9 wins, it'll be because they get after it defensively, they rebound just enough to get by as a group and they force other teams to play slow and ugly. A real grind, scrappy as all get out. The outside shooting will also pick up. They'll get over 30% which will make a significant difference.
I don't expect it'll be fun for anyone to watch. I get the feeling oscar and co. are succeeding at getting this team to buy into having a chip on its shoulder. Wheter he can maintain that if they get their dicks kicked off in the coming weeks is the key between 8 or 9 wins in conference vs. a complete cum bath. If he loses the upperclassmen by getting humiliated again a la Georgetown in the noncon then he's mumped.
The real difference at this point is that he's got a guy or guys on his staff that are actually tough. Chester walked the walk when he played. That may be the difference. Jay rough ridin' Price wasn't firing anybody up.
I think the potential to lose this team is pretty high. The early conference schedule is very toughIf Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.2-5 is close to best case and TCU's resume is almost identical to ours - if oscar doesn't win in Ft. Worth that OU home game is nothing but tucks there to see Lonnie.
01/04/14 vs. Oklahoma State TV Bramlage Coliseum 3:00 PM CT
01/07/14 at TCU TV Fort Worth, Texas 7:00 PM CT
01/11/14 at Kansas TV Lawrence, Kan. 1:00 PM CT
01/14/14 vs. Oklahoma TV Bramlage Coliseum 6:00 PM CT
01/18/14 vs. West Virginia TV Bramlage Coliseum 12:30 PM CT
01/21/14 at Texas TV Austin, Texas 6:00 PM CT
01/25/14 at Iowa State TV Ames, Iowa 12:30 PM CT
Good rebounding isn't really a necessary ingredient for oscar teams to win, at least it was never my perception that it was. He has been good at getting his guards and wings to crash the boards to make up for less than stellar post rebounding. It would be my expectation that's what he'll do again.
Scoring will be an issue. My guess is they'll slow the pace way down come conference play and hope to limit scoring oppies for the other side and try to win ugly.
I think this team will improve on defense. If they get to 8 or 9 wins, it'll be because they get after it defensively, they rebound just enough to get by as a group and they force other teams to play slow and ugly. A real grind, scrappy as all get out. The outside shooting will also pick up. They'll get over 30% which will make a significant difference.
I don't expect it'll be fun for anyone to watch. I get the feeling oscar and co. are succeeding at getting this team to buy into having a chip on its shoulder. Whether he can maintain that if they get their dicks kicked off in the coming weeks is the key between 8 or 9 wins in conference vs. a complete cum bath. If he loses the upperclassmen by getting humiliated again a la Georgetown in the noncon then he's mumped.
The real difference at this point is that he's got a guy or guys on his staff that are actually tough. Chester walked the walk when he played. That may be the difference. Jay rough ridin' Price wasn't firing anybody up.
Mr. Bread, I really enjoy your presence on this board.
I'm going to have to fire up some more Big 10/Breads ADV stats charts for you this year.
well, the only win at AFH in 20+ years was a pretty undersized team beating a very talented but very young KU team with a 2-3 zone they only played because they had no depth.
oscar's last season at Illinois (17-15/6-12) he did this:
#5 Ohio State - Assembly Hall - Champaign, IL - ESPN - W 79–74
#10 Michigan State - Assembly Hall - Champaign, IL - ESPN - W 42–41
1/3 of his conference wins were against top 10 teams.
oscar's last season at Illinois (17-15/6-12) he did this:
#5 Ohio State - Assembly Hall - Champaign, IL - ESPN - W 79–74
#10 Michigan State - Assembly Hall - Champaign, IL - ESPN - W 42–41
1/3 of his conference wins were against top 10 teams.
Those games are bizarre, mainly because of how different they were in pace and efficiency. One win with nearly 1.2 points per possession and one with .74 ppp. That Michigan State game had to be brutal to watch.
It is amazing how bad the defense got for oscar at the end of that season.
If Jevon is absolutely amazing, we could win 8 games. If he is the normal frosh who is skilled but slightly out of control, a little sloppy with the ball, not up to strength on defense, or if his natural tempo is drastically different than what our current team plays, then we could easily be a 4-6 win conf team. Easily.
My gut says he is better than Nigel in every way except three-point shooting. Faster, stronger, better dribbler, better disher and better driver. So you basically swap them out and bump up JT's minutes with everybody else staying healthy and I say it's 8-10 to 9-9 lock. This is all gut here. I don't know it, I just feel it. oscar will pull some upsets. He always does, even in his worst years. He's already cashed in some of his standard head scratching stinkers. These things follow a pattern.
It would be different if I thought he was losing this team, but I don't. Again just feelings.
I don't know how we rebound or score enough points to have it make a difference. Unless Shane turns in to Rodney McGruder we are screwed because our bigs our undersized and underskilled and our swings and guards are not good at distribution (besides Shane) or shooting (besides Shane and Foster).
I mean it is possible that Foster and Jevon somehow just relentlessly drive to the rim and will us to a victory, but that seems unlikely.
Good rebounding isn't really a necessary ingredient for oscar teams to win, at least it was never my perception that it was. He has been good at getting his guards and wings to crash the boards to make up for less than stellar post rebounding. It would be my expectation that's what he'll do again.
Scoring will be an issue. My guess is they'll slow the pace way down come conference play and hope to limit scoring oppies for the other side and try to win ugly.
I think this team will improve on defense. If they get to 8 or 9 wins, it'll be because they get after it defensively, they rebound just enough to get by as a group and they force other teams to play slow and ugly. A real grind, scrappy as all get out. The outside shooting will also pick up. They'll get over 30% which will make a significant difference.
I don't expect it'll be fun for anyone to watch. I get the feeling oscar and co. are succeeding at getting this team to buy into having a chip on its shoulder. Whether he can maintain that if they get their dicks kicked off in the coming weeks is the key between 8 or 9 wins in conference vs. a complete cum bath. If he loses the upperclassmen by getting humiliated again a la Georgetown in the noncon then he's mumped.
The real difference at this point is that he's got a guy or guys on his staff that are actually tough. Chester walked the walk when he played. That may be the difference. Jay rough ridin' Price wasn't firing anybody up.
Mr. Bread-
I really appreciate your posting. Probably the best course of action for this team is to slow the pace way down as you said and hope for open 3 point looks and pray Will/Shane/Foster can knock them down. Our offense will suck, but if we can slow down the pace enough it could still keep us within a few possessions assuming solid D.
The most concerning thing is our post defense. It sucks. Nino, Gip and DJamer have never been good post defenders even for their size. How does oscar feel about zones? Because I think we will be trying to go in to a soft trap after every made basket to take 10-12 seconds off the clock before the oppos can get in to their offense. That being said, we will bleed points in the paint and at a certain point the depth chart will burn up our fouls there. We will probably need to settle on an sagging zone D or be very aggressive in doubling down, denying entry passes. The problem I don't know if we have quick/smart enough guards to rotate. If we are content giving up 3 pt attempts then we really should just settle on a zone and work on fighting for long boards because if we are to compete even against the middle of the road big 12 teams we will need to solve those two enormous liabilities on D.
As far as the upsets? I guess I could see picking off Baylor, UT or even oSu if Smart got in foul troubs or was injured. But we are not touching KU. Sorry, Bill Self will not allow it under any circumstance.
As far as the team chemistry/oscar motivational techniques. I think oscar has already dipped in to the well early on the us against them crap. The players aren't idiots. They notice that the fan support thus far has been dismal. I just don't think that a team as marginal as this one can battle out a schedule like we have under those circumstances. As far as the personalities of the individual players?
Shane Southwell and Will Spradling are my best guess as to the leaders of the lockerroom. Emotional toughness is not the first thought that enters my mind. At some point it may well get to the point that oscar hands the team to the freshman, throws the seniors under the bus and talks about being stabbed in the back by the old regime and its traitorous fruits. It certainly worked for another infamous Austrian.
Regretfully,
KK
As far as handing things to the frosh goes, this is the path that will be taken. It's the only path to be taken.
Mr. Bread-
I really appreciate your posting. Probably the best course of action for this team is to slow the pace way down as you said and hope for open 3 point looks and pray Will/Shane/Foster can knock them down. Our offense will suck, but if we can slow down the pace enough it could still keep us within a few possessions assuming solid D.
The most concerning thing is our post defense. It sucks. Nino, Gip and DJamer have never been good post defenders even for their size. How does oscar feel about zones? Because I think we will be trying to go in to a soft trap after every made basket to take 10-12 seconds off the clock before the oppos can get in to their offense. That being said, we will bleed points in the paint and at a certain point the depth chart will burn up our fouls there. We will probably need to settle on an sagging zone D or be very aggressive in doubling down, denying entry passes. The problem I don't know if we have quick/smart enough guards to rotate. If we are content giving up 3 pt attempts then we really should just settle on a zone and work on fighting for long boards because if we are to compete even against the middle of the road big 12 teams we will need to solve those two enormous liabilities on D.
As far as the upsets? I guess I could see picking off Baylor, UT or even oSu if Smart got in foul troubs or was injured. But we are not touching KU. Sorry, Bill Self will not allow it under any circumstance.
As far as the team chemistry/oscar motivational techniques. I think oscar has already dipped in to the well early on the us against them crap. The players aren't idiots. They notice that the fan support thus far has been dismal. I just don't think that a team as marginal as this one can battle out a schedule like we have under those circumstances. As far as the personalities of the individual players?
Shane Southwell and Will Spradling are my best guess as to the leaders of the lockerroom. Emotional toughness is not the first thought that enters my mind. At some point it may well get to the point that oscar hands the team to the freshman, throws the seniors under the bus and talks about being stabbed in the back by the old regime and its traitorous fruits. It certainly worked for another infamous Austrian.
Regretfully,
KK
Is there any evidence that slowing pace increases chances of upsets? I doubt there is.
oscar doesn't use zone. The post defense will continue to be a liability all season, there's no way around it. It will improve though. This is as bad at it will be assuming everyone stays healthy from here on out. The loss of the teams best and most experienced post player isn't something this team can overcome obvs even if Gipson isn't a good rebounder or rim protector. He's still much better than what they had. It's not going to be pretty, but in say 9 or 10 of the games it'll be serviceable enough to claw out a victory if other aspects break right.
As for leadership, my guess is it'll be Gipson and Chet (I realize he's not a player, but he's still young, plays in practice with them and is actually a leader) rallying the freshmen if Shane doesn't snap out of his funk. If Shane gets hot, his enthusiasm will return even if they're not winning regularly. He seems like that kind of guy. If it stays together it'll be because of Lowery (oscar teams were better with him on staff) and Chester and maybe ABIII (I don't really know much about him), not oscar. oscar does not motivate. He's incapable, but these other guys might. They'll sell the freshmen on the future and likely really sell the JT infusion. Something to look forward to through the tough times. The only time oscar completely lost an Illinois team was when the writing was on the wall. Everyone knew he was getting fired. That's not the case here. They can sell building for the future and it's not a lie the players would have to be dumb to believe if they have any self-respect and pride. Will will never be a leader. Not even oscar would push that imo. No fans will just be spun into the us vs. the world, go it alone, nobody believes in us, chip on shoulder cry.
It's not that I believe it will happen, but I can see them getting 8 or 9 wins. I could also see them getting blown out by the Zags and GW and Ole Miss and then just having a real crap show abortion of a season.
Is there any evidence that slowing pace increases chances of upsets? I doubt there is.
Maybe it does if you're terrible on offense and your oppenent isn't and thus the total number of shots per game (including your opponent's) is reduced. Less opportunity for you to eff up and less opportunity for them to succeed. It reduces the margin for error. So if they're a little off that night and you're a little more on than usual, you might have a shot where as if you were jacking up tons of shots you'd get burried. I think because math you've increased your odds of a fluke win.
Is there any evidence that slowing pace increases chances of upsets? I doubt there is.
Maybe it does if you're terrible on offense and your oppenent isn't and thus the total number of shots per game (including your opponent's) is reduced. Less opportunity for you to eff up and less opportunity for them to succeed. It reduces the margin for error. So if they're a little off that night and you're a little more on than usual, you might have a shot where as if you were jacking up tons of shots you'd get burried. I think because math you've increased your odds of a fluke win.
yeah, I get the logic behind it, but was looking for like, evidence.
Is there any evidence that slowing pace increases chances of upsets? I doubt there is.
Maybe it does if you're terrible on offense and your oppenent isn't and thus the total number of shots per game (including your opponent's) is reduced. Less opportunity for you to eff up and less opportunity for them to succeed. It reduces the margin for error. So if they're a little off that night and you're a little more on than usual, you might have a shot where as if you were jacking up tons of shots you'd get burried. I think because math you've increased your odds of a fluke win.
yeah, I get the logic behind it, but was looking for like, evidence.
Is there any evidence that slowing pace increases chances of upsets? I doubt there is.
Maybe it does if you're terrible on offense and your oppenent isn't and thus the total number of shots per game (including your opponent's) is reduced. Less opportunity for you to eff up and less opportunity for them to succeed. It reduces the margin for error. So if they're a little off that night and you're a little more on than usual, you might have a shot where as if you were jacking up tons of shots you'd get burried. I think because math you've increased your odds of a fluke win.
yeah, I get the logic behind it, but was looking for like, evidence.
I don't like that crap at all as a fan and I certainly don't know if it works, but somebody say why they don't agree with it working in theory. tia
oscar doesn't use zone. The post defense will continue to be a liability all season, there's no way around it. It will improve though. This is as bad at it will be assuming everyone stays healthy from here on out. The loss of the teams best and most experienced post player isn't something this team can overcome obvs even if Gipson isn't a good rebounder or rim protector. He's still much better than what they had. It's not going to be pretty, but in say 9 or 10 of the games it'll be serviceable enough to claw out a victory if other aspects break right.
As for leadership, my guess is it'll be Gipson and Chet (I realize he's not a player, but he's still young, plays in practice with them and is actually a leader) rallying the freshmen if Shane doesn't snap out of his funk. If Shane gets hot, his enthusiasm will return even if they're not winning regularly. He seems like that kind of guy. If it stays together it'll be because of Lowery (oscar teams were better with him on staff) and Chester and maybe ABIII (I don't really know much about him), not oscar. oscar does not motivate. He's incapable, but these other guys might. They'll sell the freshmen on the future and likely really sell the JT infusion. Something to look forward to through the tough times. The only time oscar completely lost an Illinois team was when the writing was on the wall. Everyone knew he was getting fired. That's not the case here. They can sell building for the future and it's not a lie the players would have to be dumb to believe if they have any self-respect and pride. Will will never be a leader. Not even oscar would push that imo. No fans will just be spun into the us vs. the world, go it alone, nobody believes in us, chip on shoulder cry.
It's not that I believe it will happen, but I can see them getting 8 or 9 wins. I could also see them getting blown out by the Zags and GW and Ole Miss and then just having a real crap show abortion of a season.
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
It all depends on the upset. I was curious so I went back and checked the last few seasons and compared the average pace of kenpom's Top 20 to the average pace for all of college basketball. Each year the average pace of the top 20 was nearly the same as all of college basketball, so there is no indicator that playing faster means you are better. If you try to slow down a team that already plays slow (like Florida), then it doesn't help you much.
It all depends on the upset. I was curious so I went back and checked the last few seasons and compared the average pace of kenpom's Top 20 to the average pace for all of college basketball. Each year the average pace of the top 20 was nearly the same as all of college basketball, so there is no indicator that playing faster means you are better. If you try to slow down a team that already plays slow (like Florida), then it doesn't help you much.
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
OFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
It all depends on the upset. I was curious so I went back and checked the last few seasons and compared the average pace of kenpom's Top 20 to the average pace for all of college basketball. Each year the average pace of the top 20 was nearly the same as all of college basketball, so there is no indicator that playing faster means you are better. If you try to slow down a team that already plays slow (like Florida), then it doesn't help you much.
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
Bro, do you even kenpom? We can't DREB.QuoteOFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
Bro, do you even kenpom? We can't DREB.QuoteOFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
We can live with that dboarding, but we can't live with that oboarding.
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
Bro, do you even kenpom? We can't DREB.QuoteOFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
We can live with that dboarding, but we can't live with that oboarding.
You think the DREB gets better? I don't.
I understand. I think the problems will get worse at DREB more than they get better at OREB.
It all depends on the upset. I was curious so I went back and checked the last few seasons and compared the average pace of kenpom's Top 20 to the average pace for all of college basketball. Each year the average pace of the top 20 was nearly the same as all of college basketball, so there is no indicator that playing faster means you are better. If you try to slow down a team that already plays slow (like Florida), then it doesn't help you much.
on kenpom's game plans, he has pace's correlation to OEFF and DEFF, and a quick glance at the correlations of a couple of elite coaches (Izzo and Self) shows that pace has basically no effect on their efficiency. So as an underdog it'd probably be best to play at the pace you're most comfortable with.
I guess if you plan on sucking and your best idea for not sucking is to shoot with 5 left on the shot clock every time, that may be what you're most comfortable with. But I don't think that's a very good plan.
I figured as much, but didn't want to assume. Given the level of competition faced so far, and what is in store I don't see how it could possibly improve.
I agree on Chet. I disagree on ABIII, he seems like a cheese dick. I just have a feeling at some point Shane is going to punk out on this team. I don't know if Gip can really rally the troops given that he will be part of the "old guard", but I could imagine a scenario where Foster and JT emerge as leaders.
TT, TCU = 3-4 (4)
WVU, OU, UT = 2-4 (3)
ISU, oSu, BU = 0-2 (1)
KU = 0
I still am not sure how any of that translates in to more than 8 wins. I mean even being realistically optimistic you have to sweep a min. of 3 teams in the league to start realistically piecing together 8 wins. That would logically require us to:
1. defend our home court
2. take this show on the road
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
Bro, do you even kenpom? We can't DREB.QuoteOFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
oscar used zone against GT and probably Charlotte, I think.
Much? That's gonna hurt on the boards.
Bro, do you even kenpom? We can't DREB.QuoteOFF DEF D1 AVG
Off. Reb. %: 35.4 (79) 33.5 (226) 31.9
If he uses more zone going forward, then it's going to make the DREB numbers even shittier than they are now. I mean if you are already shitty at it, going zone is probably not a good solution. Like hey that first shot they took was harder cause zone, but then they got the ball right back cause OREB. Damn. When you're already not comfortbale with zone, seems like another decent reason not to commit to it. I would guess he'll buckle down on the man to man and the boxing out and hope the post defense and DREB get better some way some how.
oscar only ever really trotted out the press and zone when he was getting blown out. I don't ever recall a situation he used it to do anything other than stop the bleeding. Things can change, but I doubt that does.
I figured as much, but didn't want to assume. Given the level of competition faced so far, and what is in store I don't see how it could possibly improve.
I agree on Chet. I disagree on ABIII, he seems like a cheese dick. I just have a feeling at some point Shane is going to punk out on this team. I don't know if Gip can really rally the troops given that he will be part of the "old guard", but I could imagine a scenario where Foster and JT emerge as leaders.
TT, TCU = 3-4 (4)
WVU, OU, UT = 2-4 (3)
ISU, oSu, BU = 0-2 (1)
KU = 0
I still am not sure how any of that translates in to more than 8 wins. I mean even being realistically optimistic you have to sweep a min. of 3 teams in the league to start realistically piecing together 8 wins. That would logically require us to:
1. defend our home court
2. take this show on the road
I think if Foster had a coach that was good at toughening up players, that he would be good at getting boards like Rod did. Will see if that develops or not.
I think if Foster had a coach that was good at toughening up players, that he would be good at getting boards like Rod did. Will see if that develops or not.
Marcus/Rodney comparisons don't make a lot of sense to me. Very different physical characteristics and skill sets.
Marcus' game is closer to Jake's than Rodney's IMO :dunno:
What if I blew your mind and told you that this is going to happen a bunch of times this year?
As for the DREB. Yeah the zone hurts it, but it already sucks as is so why not try to find a strength and work toward that? We are long at the guard spots, but undersized and short on depth inside. It could create a potentially tough zone. As I said, something will have to give on D between:
1) lack of rebounding
2) lack of guard quickness
3) lack of size/D inside
Obviously there are some moving parts here.
Frankball: Step up the Pressure
If we try to pressure the ball and deny the post we have no guard quickness and absolutely no one to protect the rim.
Adv: + TO, +DREB
Disad: -DEFF, -DFTR
Bruceketball: Man up, no double, switch or go under screens, no/slow help
Points/foul troubs in the paint, wide open threes for teams that can string together 3 passes in a row or have a guy who can pull up off a screen. Yet to see a wing that has emerged to replace McGruder's rebs.
Adv: +FG% D (hopefully), -Pace, +DREB
Disad: -TO, -DFTR
Zones:
Hold down foul troubs, force teams in to contested jump shots, slow down game in conjunction w/ 2/3rds court trap and hope to force a TO or two with different junky looks.
ADV: -Pace, +DEFF, +FTR, +FG % D (hopefully)
Disad: -DREB, -TO, if we turn ball over at current rate on O not worth bothering with
I have always heard coaches say that a zone is something you either commit fully to or don't do at all because to do it right, it takes that much time to get it down. Otherwise it is a clusterfuck that will implode.
I don't see Hagop as anything other than the Armenian Sulic unless he proves me wrong.
these make me sad :frown:
Should make you mad.
these make me mad :curse:
I'm not really convinced that slowing the pace leads to that many more upsets. There is probably some advantage there, but if a team that normally plays fast tries to slow down to pull an upset, I feel that the problems with playing a different style offset whatever advantage fewer possessions might have.
KK: The only point of disagreement I'd have with #bruceketball defense is that at its best it is designed to force TOs at a pretty high clip with ball pressure, especially with Lowry (that was THE feature of his best defenses).
FYI:Quote from: Mr. PomeroyI'm not really convinced that slowing the pace leads to that many more upsets. There is probably some advantage there, but if a team that normally plays fast tries to slow down to pull an upset, I feel that the problems with playing a different style offset whatever advantage fewer possessions might have.
but what bad teams play at a really fast pace and would then need to "slow it down in attempt to pull off the upset". i dunno, but it seems like most bad teams somewhat slow it down 24/7 and wouldn't need to adjust much against the good ones. sucky fast playing teams? does such a thing exist?
but what bad teams play at a really fast pace and would then need to "slow it down in attempt to pull off the upset". i dunno, but it seems like most bad teams somewhat slow it down 24/7 and wouldn't need to adjust much against the good ones. sucky fast playing teams? does such a thing exist?
There are usually one or two in each AQ league and there are all kinds of low major teams that play fast and are terrible. Like Central Arkansas.
From last year: Texas Tech last year played fairly fast, but was bad. Purdue in the Big 10. DePaul and St Johns in the Big East. Oregon State from the Pac 12. Etc.
KK: The only point of disagreement I'd have with #bruceketball defense is that at its best it is designed to force TOs at a pretty high clip with ball pressure, especially with Lowry (that was THE feature of his best defenses).
FYI:Quote from: Mr. PomeroyI'm not really convinced that slowing the pace leads to that many more upsets. There is probably some advantage there, but if a team that normally plays fast tries to slow down to pull an upset, I feel that the problems with playing a different style offset whatever advantage fewer possessions might have.
Yeah, I defer to others on Lowry/oscar's history of defensive systems. I just know that the difference between Frankball and Bruceketball on-ball pressure, hedging on screens, help expected/given is night and day. Is that all poor execution? I doubt it.
KK: The only point of disagreement I'd have with #bruceketball defense is that at its best it is designed to force TOs at a pretty high clip with ball pressure, especially with Lowry (that was THE feature of his best defenses).
FYI:Quote from: Mr. PomeroyI'm not really convinced that slowing the pace leads to that many more upsets. There is probably some advantage there, but if a team that normally plays fast tries to slow down to pull an upset, I feel that the problems with playing a different style offset whatever advantage fewer possessions might have.
but what bad teams play at a really fast pace and would then need to "slow it down in attempt to pull off the upset". i dunno, but it seems like most bad teams somewhat slow it down 24/7 and wouldn't need to adjust much against the good ones. sucky fast playing teams? does such a thing exist?
why do you keep calling it a junk defense?
why do you keep calling it a junk defense?
Because that's what it's called.
:dunno:
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
Yeah, I defer to others on Lowry/oscar's history of defensive systems. I just know that the difference between Frankball and Bruceketball on-ball pressure, hedging on screens, help expected/given is night and day. Is that all poor execution? I doubt it.
I think the intent of #bruceketball is ball pressure without getting beat as much AND without the backdoors/open lay-ups that #frankball sometimes gave up. #brucketball pressure is more predicated by creating TOs with steals because of ball pressure combined with "more sound" position with off the ball defense. #frankball pressure was predicated by overwhelming ball handlers, and while that occasionally led to lay-ups/backdoors, more often than not it also led to teams throwing the ball out of bounds, etc.
I think both defensive systems rely on a rim protector, but #frankball left that guy on an island more than #bruceketball does.
That would be my explanation of the differences.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
You're trying too hard. The defenses disrupted KU's offense, which kept us out of rhythm and led to poor shot selection. Statistics only tell so much of the story.
It seems like #frankball led to more fast break dunks than #bruceketball does despite #bruceketball focusing more on steals. Is this actually the case, selective memory, or just difference in the quality of the teams? Or does #bruceketball look more often to slow it down and run the offense off of steals?
[/quote
Good question, I'd have to go back and compare fast break points. I think part of that was a factor of pace and Frank's teams looked to push the ball more than oscar's, so took more fast break opportunities. Also, my impression is that most of the steals from #bruceketball aren't occurring in the back court.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
You're trying too hard. The defenses disrupted KU's offense, which kept us out of rhythm and led to poor shot selection. Statistics only tell so much of the story.
What you said there is absolutely true.
I was just pointing out that you said those were examples of teams using slow pace to pull off the upset when it was mainly just good defense, regardless of pace. The pace for both of those games was still in the upper 60s which is about KU's average.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
You're trying too hard. The defenses disrupted KU's offense, which kept us out of rhythm and led to poor shot selection. Statistics only tell so much of the story.
What you said there is absolutely true.
I was just pointing out that you said those were examples of teams using slow pace to pull off the upset when it was mainly just good defense, regardless of pace. The pace for both of those games was still in the upper 60s which is about KU's average.
yep. If you want an example of irregular pace leading to an upset, look at KU vs. Davidson in the Sprint Center a couple years ago:
It was Davidson's 2nd fastest pace that season and KU's 3rd fastest.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
You're trying too hard. The defenses disrupted KU's offense, which kept us out of rhythm and led to poor shot selection. Statistics only tell so much of the story.
What you said there is absolutely true.
I was just pointing out that you said those were examples of teams using slow pace to pull off the upset when it was mainly just good defense, regardless of pace. The pace for both of those games was still in the upper 60s which is about KU's average.
yep. If you want an example of irregular pace leading to an upset, look at KU vs. Davidson in the Sprint Center a couple years ago:
It was Davidson's 2nd fastest pace that season and KU's 3rd fastest.
That's kind of the exception to the rule, though. That KU team played at a pretty moderate pace (by Bill Self standards) and didn't have a whole lot of depth. Our first two players off the bench were Connor Teahan and Kevin Young. KenPom's adjusted offense for KU fell from ~116 in '11 to ~111 in '12. KU relied heavily on our starters and a very good defense (especially inside). Davidson won 25 games that season, played in the NCAA tournament, and only had four games all year where they failed to score at least 70 points.
Iona is a good example of a mid major that plays fast. They've led the NCAA in scoring over the past couple years, IIRC. If anyone wants evidence of a team slowing down the pace and running a junk defense to pull off an upset, take a look at the KU/UTEP game in the Bahamas last weekend. UTEP played a triangle and two, and trapped at halfcourt, and it caused KU fits. KU was unable to really break down the defense and find a rhythm offensively. The TCU game in Ft. Worth last year is another good example.
I think its fair to say that the defenses used against KU in those games disrupted their offense, but neither were really, really slow paced games possession wise. KU just missed a lot of shots (particularly 3 pointers) in each of those, especially against TCU.
You're trying too hard. The defenses disrupted KU's offense, which kept us out of rhythm and led to poor shot selection. Statistics only tell so much of the story.
What you said there is absolutely true.
I was just pointing out that you said those were examples of teams using slow pace to pull off the upset when it was mainly just good defense, regardless of pace. The pace for both of those games was still in the upper 60s which is about KU's average.
yep. If you want an example of irregular pace leading to an upset, look at KU vs. Davidson in the Sprint Center a couple years ago:
It was Davidson's 2nd fastest pace that season and KU's 3rd fastest.
That's kind of the exception to the rule, though. That KU team played at a pretty moderate pace (by Bill Self standards) and didn't have a whole lot of depth. Our first two players off the bench were Connor Teahan and Kevin Young. KenPom's adjusted offense for KU fell from ~116 in '11 to ~111 in '12. KU relied heavily on our starters and a very good defense (especially inside). Davidson won 25 games that season, played in the NCAA tournament, and only had four games all year where they failed to score at least 70 points.
whereas your idiotic TCU example was within a possession of KU's normal pace.
I don't have KenPom premium, so I'm just looking at his adjO numbers for KU. I understand what "pace" means. KU's average pace was skewed in that TCU game by the fact that we had to maximize possessions and lengthen the game at the end (because we were losing). Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand how statistics can be misleading.
:dunno:
I don't think you understand what's being discussed, beems, and it doesn't make you look very smart.
I don't have KenPom premium, so I'm just looking at his adjO numbers for KU. I understand what "pace" means. KU's average pace was skewed in that TCU game by the fact that we had to maximize possessions and lengthen the game at the end (because we were losing). Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand how statistics can be misleading.
:dunno:
That's a fair point. 1st half pace was 30 poss, 2nd half pace was 36 poss. What an ugly game, TCU didn't even play that well. Bizarre.
I don't have KenPom premium, so I'm just looking at his adjO numbers for KU. I understand what "pace" means. KU's average pace was skewed in that TCU game by the fact that we had to maximize possessions and lengthen the game at the end (because we were losing). Perhaps you're the one who doesn't understand how statistics can be misleading.
:dunno:
That's a fair point. 1st half pace was 30 poss, 2nd half pace was 36 poss. What an ugly game, TCU didn't even play that well. Bizarre.
A 2nd half with several more possessions isn't an outlier, especially when teams start fouling to make comebacks. Average pace takes into account games like this
A 2nd half with several more possessions isn't an outlier, especially when teams start fouling to make comebacks. Average pace takes into account games like this
Also a fair point.
I remember watching the game, and the pace did increase down the stretch due to a number of factors and I checked the numbers to verify. I think its reasonable to say both of the points have some validity, not just because of FENCE.
I don't think Beems is wrong just because he's Beems.
A 2nd half with several more possessions isn't an outlier, especially when teams start fouling to make comebacks. Average pace takes into account games like this
Also a fair point.
I remember watching the game, and the pace did increase down the stretch due to a number of factors and I checked the numbers to verify. I think its reasonable to say both of the points have some validity, not just because of FENCE.
I don't think Beems is wrong just because he's Beems.
Pace is also tricky to point as a factor, because you don't have complete control over the length of your offensive possessions, and you have even less over your offensive possessions, both of which contribute to "pace". LENGTH of possession on offense and defense would be a better indicator of desired speed.
My point was that the TCU game was not a statistical outlier for either team's pace, so it's foolish to point to it as a factor. That doesn't just "have some validity", it's a fact.
I'd like to see how many more possessions the 2nd half has than the 1st half, on average. Taking shots early in the shot clock when you're behind, and then fouling the other team when it's close has to increase it a significant amount.
Did we slow it down very much against KU in 2006? I remember it being a low scoring game, but that may just be because both teams shot the ball poorly. I think if you're going to try to slow down a team in hopes of winning, doing it against a young team is probably a better bet. Freshman are usually not that adept at controlling the pace of a game. Although KU's squad this year is probably much more athletic than in 2006.we played a 2-3 zone most of the second half and KU made only 3 shots from the field in the last 12+ minutes of the game
Did we slow it down very much against KU in 2006? I remember it being a low scoring game, but that may just be because both teams shot the ball poorly. I think if you're going to try to slow down a team in hopes of winning, doing it against a young team is probably a better bet. Freshman are usually not that adept at controlling the pace of a game. Although KU's squad this year is probably much more athletic than in 2006.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
Did we slow it down very much against KU in 2006? I remember it being a low scoring game, but that may just be because both teams shot the ball poorly. I think if you're going to try to slow down a team in hopes of winning, doing it against a young team is probably a better bet. Freshman are usually not that adept at controlling the pace of a game. Although KU's squad this year is probably much more athletic than in 2006.
Game had 66 possessions, that season we averaged just under 65 poss per game.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
Likely to break:
Streak of 7 years of winning conference record.
Streak of 7 years with a win over top 25 opponent.
Possibilities:
10 years without an overall losing record.
Million year home winning record streak.
:lol:
I'M THE SMARTEST POSTER ON THE BOARD!* :adored:
*tied with chum and FSD (basketball only)
shutup Carnes, if it was you that said it, you were trolling and you know itI'M THE SMARTEST POSTER ON THE BOARD!* :adored:
*tied with chum and FSD (basketball only)
did you predict that we were going to the NCAA tourney even after we lost to Northern Colorado? b/c somebody here did
I'M THE SMARTEST POSTER ON THE BOARD!* :adored:
*tied with chum and FSD
Kim Carnes is the opposite of a troll you rough ridin' ignorant moronsWhile certainly not trolling, I wouldn't say what kim carnes does is the opposite of it. Kim Carnes is to trolling as street art is to graffiti.
There are quite a few threads started during the Northern Colorado, Charlotte, Georgetown run (and justifiably so) that are quite entertaining to read now.
There are quite a few threads started during the Northern Colorado, Charlotte, Georgetown run (and justifiably so) that are quite entertaining to read now.
POST THE LINKS
There are quite a few threads started during the Northern Colorado, Charlotte, Georgetown run (and justifiably so) that are quite entertaining to read now.
POST THE LINKS
Go back to around page 10: http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?board=2.225
Plenty of gems to be found...
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29742.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29793.msg961007#msg961007
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29736.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29839.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29970.0
This game was honestly pretty much meaningless
There are quite a few threads started during the Northern Colorado, Charlotte, Georgetown run (and justifiably so) that are quite entertaining to read now.
POST THE LINKS
Go back to around page 10: http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?board=2.225
Plenty of gems to be found...
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29742.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29793.msg961007#msg961007
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29736.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29839.0
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=29970.0This game was honestly pretty much meaningless
:D