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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: kso_FAN on September 23, 2013, 10:05:31 AM
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Its a fair point to consider the competition we've faced, but its still 1/3 of the season, so its not insignificant.
The clear talking points that have already been mentioned stand out; turnovers and total number of snaps. Just in terms of "per play" stats right now, the offense and defense are comparable to the rest of Snyder 2. However, the turnover numbers on both sides of the ball have been the real downfall for this team and a major reason we are 2-2. Plays per game have become a real problem too; part of that is the turnover issue, part the TOP problems caused by the Waters led offense.
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Its a fair point to consider the competition we've faced, but its still 1/3 of the season, so its not insignificant.
The clear talking points that have already been mentioned stand out; turnovers and total number of snaps. Just in terms of "per play" stats right now, the offense and defense are comparable to the rest of Snyder 2. However, the turnover numbers on both sides of the ball have been the real downfall for this team and a major reason we are 2-2. Plays per game have become a real problem too; part of that is the turnover issue, part the TOP problems caused by the Waters led offense.
How about special teams.
Also, more than two and a half times the O t.o.'s as last year. :sdeek:
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How about special teams.
Also, more than two and a half times the O t.o.'s as last year. :sdeek:
The lack of TOs on defense is a huge concern as well.
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I feel like if Bill saw those numbers he’d come to the conclusion that all we have to do is not turn the ball over. I think that’s all the talking points you’re going to hear from Stan as well. “Waters is good, just needs to be more protective of the ball”. Much the same way you’d watch a circus and say “ya know, that juggler's good, just needs more arms”.
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How about special teams.
Also, more than two and a half times the O t.o.'s as last year. :sdeek:
The lack of TOs on defense is a huge concern as well.
Yeah, equally bad regression on both sides from last year to this.
Who is our turnovers coach? Was it Joe Bob?
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How about special teams.
Also, more than two and a half times the O t.o.'s as last year. :sdeek:
The lack of TOs on defense is a huge concern as well.
Yep, I feel like last year you could always count on the defense to cause a turnover at just the right time. Like you just knew it was going to happen. This year I do not feel that way and it makes me sad.
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I feel like if Bill saw those numbers he’d come to the conclusion that all we have to do is not turn the ball over. I think that’s all the talking points you’re going to hear from Stan as well. “Waters is good, just needs to be more protective of the ball”. Much the same way you’d watch a circus and say “ya know, that juggler's good, just needs more arms”.
This is kinda what a bunch of us have been saying by wanting Sams in. Half of it anyway.
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How about special teams.
Also, more than two and a half times the O t.o.'s as last year. :sdeek:
The lack of TOs on defense is a huge concern as well.
20yd cushions on WR's kind of makes it hard to sit on some routes like we usually do.
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Man, turnovers.
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How about special teams.
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Wow, punt coverage sucks. Krause really needs to get a little more loft under the ball and Sean needs to evaluate just who he has on the punt team trying to make tackles.
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This is the main problem...
Texas coach Mack Brown says LHC Bill Snyder told him, "If I have to lose, it needs to be to a friend."
Loser's mentality. Also includes hand writing congratulatory letters to the opponent when they beat us. I hope Bill still cares as much as he use to :Crybaby:
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bill must be best buds with that loser D2 coach who whipped his ass
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Wow, punt coverage sucks. Krause really needs to get a little more loft under the ball and Sean needs to evaluate just who he has on the punt team trying to make tackles.
That's where numbers can be skewed this early (we've only had 4 returns against us); the issue was really the one return vs NDSU. Besides the offensive issues that have been discussed enough from that game, that return is a big reason we lost against them, IMO.
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I'm too lazy to go back and look it up, but I'm just going to state something as though I have: Our starting field position has to be worse than last year, both offensively and defensively - primarily due to poor kick/punt coverage, turnovers, and avg return game. But that's what bad teams do. They put themselves in bad situations, routinely.
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I'm too lazy to go back and look it up, but I'm just going to state something as though I have: Our starting field position has to be worse than last year, both offensively and defensively - primarily due to poor kick/punt coverage, turnovers, and avg return game. But that's what bad teams do. They put themselves in bad situations, routinely.
Its a good point, so I looked it up.
Last year our average starting field position was our 36 yard line. Opponents' was their 26 yard line.
This year our ASP is our 29 yard line. Opponents' average is their 30 yard line.
From +10 to -1.
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thanks _Fan. Not as drastic as I thought, but still material.
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thanks _Fan. Not as drastic as I thought, but still material.
When you combine TO ratios and field position lost/gained its a big deal.
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remember when our offense would pick up a couple of yards here and a couple of yards there and then we'd just tell collin to fall forward on a third and two and then just get right back up and do it all over again. i mean do you guys? cause oh man :love:
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thanks _Fan. Not as drastic as I thought, but still material.
When you combine TO ratios and field position lost/gained its a big deal.
certainly, I was just expecting the +/- between opponent's ASP between years to be greater.
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remember when our offense would pick up a couple of yards here and a couple of yards there and then we'd just tell collin to fall forward on a third and two and then just get right back up and do it all over again. i mean do you guys? cause oh man :love:
JAKE WATERS YPA, THO!
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thanks _Fan. Not as drastic as I thought, but still material.
When you combine TO ratios and field position lost/gained its a big deal.
certainly, I was just expecting the +/- between opponent's ASP between years to be greater.
Our KO return coverage is actually slightly better this year.
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remember when our offense would pick up a couple of yards here and a couple of yards there and then we'd just tell collin to fall forward on a third and two and then just get right back up and do it all over again. i mean do you guys? cause oh man :love:
JAKE WATERS YPA, THO!
I feel like this is directed at me. :D
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remember when our offense would pick up a couple of yards here and a couple of yards there and then we'd just tell collin to fall forward on a third and two and then just get right back up and do it all over again. i mean do you guys? cause oh man :love:
JAKE WATERS YPA, THO!
I feel like this is directed at me. :D
it was directed at everyone who talks up this bullshit stat (along with other stats not related to us scoring or keeping the ball)
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man, this bbs'ing season is going to feel like the bbs'ing off season after we hired oscar if bill doesn't get this thing figured out.
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man, this bbs'ing season is going to feel like the bbs'ing off season after we hired oscar if bill doesn't get this thing figured out.
Then will roll into a very interesting bbs basketball season
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I wonder what our YPP on first down is like compared to last year.
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Our 3rd down conversion rate comparo would probably be pretty :lol:.
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I wonder what our YPP on first down is like compared to last year.
I would like to see that stat, too. I really don't think it would be all that different. 3rd down is a drive killer for us this year, regardless of the yardage to gain. If anything, 3rd and medium is better than 3rd and short because it takes the QB fetal position play off the table.
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I wonder what our YPP on first down is like compared to last year.
This year:
73 rush attempts, 5.14 YPC, 6 TD
45 pass attempts, 11.4 YPA, 2 TD, 2 INT
Last year:
273 rush attempts, 5.07 YPC, 16 TD
124 pass attempts, 9.8 YPA, 2 TD, 2 INT
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Our 3rd down conversion rate comparo would probably be pretty :lol:.
Offense:
This year 51.0%
Last year 50.0%
Defense:
This year 48.5%
Last year 40.2%
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Our 3rd down conversion rate comparo would probably be pretty :lol:.
Offense:
This year 51.0%
Last year 50.0%
Defense:
This year 48.5%
Last year 40.2%
Offense = Much closer than I would have thought.
Defense = holy crap :frown:
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now that we're through the tough stretch in the schedule I expect our numbers to improve. drastically.
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The offense really converts on half of its 3rd downs? Doesn't feel like it.
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The offense really converts on half of its 3rd downs? Doesn't feel like it.
we turn it over shitloads.
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I don't think our defensive 3rd down numbers will change much over the next couple of games. There won't be a whole lot of 3rd downs played.
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we turn it over shitloads.
We didn't commit our 9th turnover of the season until the Baylor game last year.
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we turn it over shitloads.
We didn't commit our 9th turnover of the season until the Baylor game last year.
Yes.
Biggest issues going into the bye week:
Offensive turnovers.
Defensive lack of turnovers.
Defensive 3rd down conversions.
Offensive identity/plan.
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we turn it over shitloads.
We didn't commit our 9th turnover of the season until the Baylor game last year.
Yes.
Biggest issues going into the bye week:
Offensive turnovers.
Defensive lack of turnovers.
Defensive 3rd down conversions.
Offensive identity/plan.
Players all hating Waters
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man, this bbs'ing season is going to feel like the bbs'ing off season after we hired oscar if bill doesn't get this thing figured out.
Then will roll into a very interesting bbs basketball season
Suzie Fritz and the VolleyCats, tho.
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Yes.
Biggest issues going into the bye week:
Offensive turnovers.
Defensive lack of turnovers.
Defensive 3rd down conversions.
Offensive identity/plan.
The identity/plan go hand in hand with the turnovers on offense. Both turnovers on Saturday were a result of having the guys in the wrong situation, mainly having Waters running the ball by design.
The lack of takeaways is concerning on defense, but the inability to get off the field on 3rd down is terrible. Teams seem to be converting a very high % of 3rd & 7+ plays against us.
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One of Waters' turnovers was on a passing play, though.
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One of Waters' turnovers was on a passing play, though.
Good point. I've lost track of all of them.
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One of Waters' turnovers was on a passing play, though.
And the other was on an apparently good play call because it was a TD if the OL's ass had not been in the way.
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This defense won't create turnovers this year unless we find a better option than Roberts, get consistent pressure from ANYONE on our d-line, and put our more athletic linebackers on the field. Right now the QB has MORE than enough time to throw to the guy that Roberts is covering, regardless of how much time his route takes to complete, and when the other team runs all they have to do is get through the line and they are guaranteed to get into the secondary because our linebackers are so slow...and usually out of position or stuck on a block. I just pray that some of the backups on this team realize the opportunity in front of them and practice their asses off over the next two weeks.
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I'm not even sure if pressure from the d-line makes any type of difference when you have a corner who has to give a 15 yard cushion on 3rd and 6.
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I'm not even sure if pressure from the d-line makes any type of difference when you have a corner who has to give a 15 yard cushion on 3rd and 6.
If we were getting consistent pressure then I doubt we would be giving 15 yard cushions on 3rd and 6. We run a defense that tries to limit the big play. Having no pressure from the line plus a corner that doesn't have the speed to press and recover means we will be giving that cushion until we replace the corner with someone faster, or we start getting pressure.
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I'm not even sure if pressure from the d-line makes any type of difference when you have a corner who has to give a 15 yard cushion on 3rd and 6.
If we were getting consistent pressure then I doubt we would be giving 15 yard cushions on 3rd and 6. We run a defense that tries to limit the big play. Having no pressure from the line plus a corner that doesn't have the speed to press and recover means we will be giving that cushion until we replace the corner with someone faster, or we start getting pressure.
Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. Tighter coverage would force the receiver to run a route to get open. Our coverage leaves the receiver open at the snap for an easy 2 step drop and toss. You are right about the lack of a pass rush making tighter coverage a greater risk, too, though. At some point, I think our coaches need to grow a pair of balls and start getting stops, though. We are giving up big plays despite our soft coverage. We might as well tighten things up and hopefully get some 3 and outs as well.
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One of Waters' turnovers was on a passing play, though.
And the other was on an apparently good play call because it was a TD if the OL's ass had not been in the way.
the butt fumble was pretty upsetting for me because I only needed us to cover 6 points in order to hit a 3 team parlay :frown:
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I'm not even sure if pressure from the d-line makes any type of difference when you have a corner who has to give a 15 yard cushion on 3rd and 6.
If we were getting consistent pressure then I doubt we would be giving 15 yard cushions on 3rd and 6. We run a defense that tries to limit the big play. Having no pressure from the line plus a corner that doesn't have the speed to press and recover means we will be giving that cushion until we replace the corner with someone faster, or we start getting pressure.
Maybe it's a chicken and egg thing. Tighter coverage would force the receiver to run a route to get open. Our coverage leaves the receiver open at the snap for an easy 2 step drop and toss. You are right about the lack of a pass rush making tighter coverage a greater risk, too, though. At some point, I think our coaches need to grow a pair of balls and start getting stops, though. We are giving up big plays despite our soft coverage. We might as well tighten things up and hopefully get some 3 and outs as well.
I'd be cool with having a safety help Roberts over the top, so that he could play press coverage more often. Ideally that would also include our slow as crap linebackers being replaced with their athletically superior backups, because our safeties have had to make way too many tackles this year, and I worry that if one of them was constantly asked to cover Roberts' ass, then would just give up big run plays instead of pass plays on that side of the field.
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now that we're through the tough stretch in the schedule I expect our numbers to improve. drastically.
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that FAN's numbers are meaningless crap (except turnovers, my god).
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now that we're through the tough stretch in the schedule I expect our numbers to improve. drastically.
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that FAN's numbers are meaningless crap (except turnovers, my god).
The numbers are very meaningful because they show us that if we could just get a QB into the game who could hold onto the football, our offense really isn't worse than it was last season.
Losing Malone was a big blow to the defense. He was a ball hawk. We absolutely have to find a corner who can at least cover a wide receiver for a few seconds, and I think we might start to get some more turnovers defensively. I just don't know if that player exists this year.
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bill must be best buds with that loser D2 coach who whipped his ass
:lol:
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now that we're through the tough stretch in the schedule I expect our numbers to improve. drastically.
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that FAN's numbers are meaningless crap (except turnovers, my god).
The numbers are very meaningful because they show us that if we could just get a QB into the game who could hold onto the football, our offense really isn't worse than it was last season.
Losing Malone was a big blow to the defense. He was a ball hawk. We absolutely have to find a corner who can at least cover a wide receiver for a few seconds, and I think we might start to get some more turnovers defensively. I just don't know if that player exists this year.
No, it shows we've done shitty compared to last year. We've played two D2 teams (I guess Umass is D1 but whatevs), a Sun Belt team, and the worst UT team in history, while last year's numbers include the most difficult conference schedule in Snyder's tenure.
(Now if FAN did last year's first 4 games and compared them to this year's first 4, I may change my tune.)
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now that we're through the tough stretch in the schedule I expect our numbers to improve. drastically.
Yeah, I've come to the conclusion that FAN's numbers are meaningless crap (except turnovers, my god).
The numbers are very meaningful because they show us that if we could just get a QB into the game who could hold onto the football, our offense really isn't worse than it was last season.
Losing Malone was a big blow to the defense. He was a ball hawk. We absolutely have to find a corner who can at least cover a wide receiver for a few seconds, and I think we might start to get some more turnovers defensively. I just don't know if that player exists this year.
No, it shows we've done shitty compared to last year. We've played two D2 teams (I guess Umass is D1 but whatevs), a Sun Belt team, and the worst UT team in history, while last year's numbers include the most difficult conference schedule in Snyder's tenure.
(Now if FAN did last year's first 4 games and compared them to this year's first 4, I may change my tune.)
Last year's Missouri State and North Texas games were pretty ugly offensively. We played well against Miami, though.
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My first point was that the schedule to this point in the season must be considered, so that critique is fair.
I'd say it's likely the offensive numbers will stay about the same because the league isn't great defensively and (hopefully) as this staff figures out how to use the pieces on offense we'll see decent efficiency with fewer turnovers. This is the worst 4 game stretch for turnovers in Snyder's second stint, and the last 8 games have featured 17 turnovers on offense, so it's a problem that goes back to last year as well.
Defensively, it's likely not going to get better, but hopefully we can figure out how to force some more turnovers.
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Some trends that probably aren’t too difficult to determine a cause:
’12 ‘13
Run Att/game 43 36
Pass Att/game 20 26
The most we threw it last year through the first 4 games was 28 against MoSt, we’ve thrown greater than that in every game this year except UMass.