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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: wabash909 on September 22, 2013, 07:03:20 PM
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
I don't know the passing concepts from that era, but I think the passing game we're using now is probably more like we used then. Its just the insistence on staying with QB run with Waters in the game that seems futile.
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
I don't know the passing concepts from that era, but I think the passing game we're using now is probably more like we used then. Its just the insistence on staying with QB run with Waters in the game that seems futile.
You are being too kind.
LHC Bill Snyder FAILED last night. FAILED in his preparation, failed in his execution. He was self-limiting, and he hurt people who depend upon him.
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
I don't know the passing concepts from that era, but I think the passing game we're using now is probably more like we used then. Its just the insistence on staying with QB run with Waters in the game that seems futile.
You are being too kind.
LHC Bill Snyder FAILED last night. FAILED in his preparation, failed in his execution. He was self-limiting, and he hurt people who depend upon him.
Over analysis. His belief that he had to keep UT's defense honest with the QB run even though Waters and Lockett were having frequent success through the air. UT had no answer for Lockett, and I give Snyder some credit for finding creative ways to get him open.
But yes, he hurt the chances for winning by insisting that Waters run and when using Sams making him a completely 1 dimensional run threat.
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I have said this before, what worked in the early 90's Big 8 against defenses built to stop NU, OU and CU option football will not work vs teams filed with Texas HS players that have faced the spread since birth. I think when we go 5 wide Son of Stanbot is involved.
also, early 90s D >>>2013 D
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I have said this before, what worked in the early 90's Big 8 against defenses built to stop NU, OU and CU option football will not work vs teams filed with Texas HS players that have faced the spread since birth. I think when we go 5 wide Son of Stanbot is involved.
also, early 90s D >>>2013 D
Both are fair points.
But still, the passing concepts are fine and worked well. Waters made some really good throws, but still had plenty of problems and struggled with some of the stuff he was asked to do (run game specifically).
And I think we all agree that we all would've liked to see Sams get a drive or two with a full compliment of plays (running and passing) out of a wider variety of formations.
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Waters just isn't as good as May, Miller, or Kavanaugh. All those other QBs were run frequently, too, and really there isn't any excuse for any QB to not be able to convert the short yardage QB runs that are being called for Waters. Winners convert those first downs, regardless of running ability. crap, Coffman even converted most of them.
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Waters just isn't as good as May, Miller, or Kavanaugh. All those other QBs were run frequently, too, and really there isn't any excuse for any QB to not be able to convert the short yardage QB runs that are being called for Waters. Winners convert those first downs, regardless of running ability. crap, Coffman even converted most of them.
Waters would not start for any of our bowl teams (Coffman at least had less turnover troubles) and other than Smargiasso, can't think of any worse, maybe Dylan
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Waters and Dylan are roughly equal. Evridge is worse than Waters, though. Waters is our worst starting QB since Evridge.
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I have said this before, what worked in the early 90's Big 8 against defenses built to stop NU, OU and CU option football will not work vs teams filed with Texas HS players that have faced the spread since birth.
This is the only explanation that seems logical. Although Tech and Okie State continue to have success with it.
What I cannot comprehend is Snyder's inability or unwillingness to recognize that the Collin Klein offense is not going to work with a guy that inherently has no idea how, nor the skillset to run it properly.
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
I don't know the passing concepts from that era, but I think the passing game we're using now is probably more like we used then. Its just the insistence on staying with QB run with Waters in the game that seems futile.
Pretty sure ob addressed this in his book. Something to the effect that passing is a talent gap equalizer.
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I think the QB run game is more of a talent gap equalizer today.
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Kav was pretty bad, Miller was what I had high hopes for Waters. May was slow but ran with determination and toughness we haven't seen from Waters. The only game I saw Watson play a pretty salty KU D full of NFL guys made him look a lot like Waters.
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Snyder ran the spread offense to a high degree of success with each of these QB's that was tailored specifically to their strengths during the DOD.
I seriously don't understand the unwillingness to adapt the offense. And I really would like to hear an explanation and some HFIQ as to why this is not happening.
I don't know the passing concepts from that era, but I think the passing game we're using now is probably more like we used then. Its just the insistence on staying with QB run with Waters in the game that seems futile.
The challenge as I see it is this... Our starter can't execute our run game efficiently, and our backup apparently can't execute the passing game efficiently enough to give it a go in a game.
So, our practice time ends up being used totally inefficiently. When we've had more of a "pure passer" in the past, you can imagine that is the type of offense that was practiced exclusively by both the starter and the backup and when we've had more of a "dual threat" like Bishop, Roberson, etc., then practice was spent on the QB run game and the "pass plays" that accompany such.
As it stands now, we are not getting "really good" at either being a passing offense or "really good" at being a running offense. So, we end up being just short of average at both and it rough ridin' sucks.
Klein's passing was serviceable last year because we schemed the eff outta the defenses and he was generally throwing into huge, wide open windows. I'm of the belief that Sams probably can't do what Waters does in the passing game and that side of the offense, so we don't try. However, I'm also of the belief that Sams CAN do what Klein did and would be VERY good at it, just like Bishop and Roberson were at throwing slip screens, jailbreaks, and deep balls to Lockett ala Bishop to MacDonald or Roberson to Terry.
:th_twocents:
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Klein's passing was serviceable last year because we schemed the eff outta the defenses and he was generally throwing into huge, wide open windows. I'm of the belief that Sams probably can't do what Waters does in the passing game and that side of the offense, so we don't try. However, I'm also of the belief that Sams CAN do what Klein did and would be VERY good at it, just like Bishop and Roberson were at throwing slip screens, jailbreaks, and deep balls to Lockett ala Bishop to MacDonald or Roberson to Terry.
:th_twocents:
Well said
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Kav was pretty bad, Miller was what I had high hopes for Waters. May was slow but ran with determination and toughness we haven't seen from Waters. The only game I saw Watson play a pretty salty KU D full of NFL guys made him look a lot like Waters.
I don't remember May being asked to run the option at all.
And Kavanaugh was pretty bad by our high standards at the time, but he was a good game manager and he still led us to a 9 win season, Top 20 ranking and the first New Year's Day bowl in our history.
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UT had no answer for Lockett, and I give Snyder some credit for finding creative ways to get him open.
Post routes? Button hooks to the sidelines? Super creative.
(Snyder's "creativity" had little to do with Lockett's big night. Lockett is just a little stud.)
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Mentioning Jake Waters in the same sentence as Chad May is a rough ridin' insult to CM.
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You wanna touch $38.17?
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Waters and Dylan are roughly equal. Evridge is worse than Waters, though. Waters is our worst starting QB since Evridge.
False. He is better than Coffman.
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Waters and Dylan are roughly equal. Evridge is worse than Waters, though. Waters is our worst starting QB since Evridge.
False. He is better than Coffman.
Better at turning the ball over and not converting 3rd downs, maybe.
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You wanna touch $38.17?
:lol:
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Waters and Dylan are roughly equal. Evridge is worse than Waters, though. Waters is our worst starting QB since Evridge.
False. He is better than Coffman.
Better at turning the ball over and not converting 3rd downs, maybe.
Pretty crazy that we would probably be 4-0 with Coffman or even Gregory starting this year. Even crazier that the same people who still hate Freeman are such fierce defenders of Waters. I think it's the combination of the scrappy white underdog and Snyder's (albeit ambiguous) endorsement.
Just for fun, google "Jake waters" and "speed" or "fast." All the code words are there: sneaky, deceptive, etc.
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Coffmans numbers blow Waters out of the Waters. Statistically he was a far superior QB. And he had fewer weapons to throw to.
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My two talking points right now are:
1) Waters has more turnovers than Sams has passing attempts.
2) None of Waters' turnovers are his fault, while all of Sams' turnovers are none.
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You wanna touch $38.17?
Oh man....:thumbsup:
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Even crazier that the same people who still hate Freeman are such fierce defenders of Waters. I think it's the combination of the scrappy white underdog racism and Snyder's (albeit ambiguous) endorsement.
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Kav was pretty bad, Miller was what I had high hopes for Waters. May was slow but ran with determination and toughness we haven't seen from Waters. The only game I saw Watson play a pretty salty KU D full of NFL guys made him look a lot like Waters.
Snyder has always run the QB. Back to Watson and Straw, his first two. Those guys used to "run" the option and plod down the giant crown on the old field, and then get gutted by DEs and LBs from NU, OU and CU. Snyder has always felt the need to show the QB run as an option in his playbook, even when it doesn't work.
Miller, BTW, ran better than Beasley.
:cyclist: