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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: EMAWmeister on September 22, 2013, 09:49:12 AM
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Will somebody tell me why anyone likes him better than Sams? Do tucks just hate @goEMAW so passionately that they choose the other guy no matter what? Do we have a lot of racists in our fan base?
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There are already multiple threads about this.
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tucks are desperate for an answer, one that pacifies. so reality is out. "bill knows what he's doing. sams must suck." the end.
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There are already multiple threads about this.
Yeah, I don't care
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There are already multiple threads about this.
there is no limit. thinking about starting one myself
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Agree with every post ITT.
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Before, I just wanted waters to not play, then I wanted him to get a minor injury so that Sams has to run the show with the coaches calling the game to win - and do so knowing that if they're going to throw the ball, Sams is the only option. Now I wouldn't care if waters has a career ending injury.
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Man, every board is full of Waters hate........in the game I watched I could of sworn that Sams had 0 Td drives, 0 passes attempted, and 0 passing yards.......I wish I had DVR'd that crap last night so I can go re-watch all of that Sams greatness....... :sdeek:
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Man, every board is full of Waters hate........in the game I watched I could of sworn that Sams had 0 Td drives, 0 passes attempted, and 0 passing yards.......I wish I had DVR'd that crap last night so I can go re-watch all of that Sams greatness....... :sdeek:
Shut the eff up, racist.
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Man, every board is full of Waters hate........in the game I watched I could of sworn that Sams had 0 Td drives, 0 passes attempted, and 0 passing yards.......I wish I had DVR'd that crap last night so I can go re-watch all of that Sams greatness....... :sdeek:
Sams wasn't allowed to attempt a pass last night. Texas caught on quickly and shut Sams down. Not Sams' fault our OC is a freaking moron.
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Man, every board is full of Waters hate........in the game I watched I could of sworn that Sams had 0 Td drives, 0 passes attempted, and 0 passing yards.......I wish I had DVR'd that crap last night so I can go re-watch all of that Sams greatness....... :sdeek:
Texas board doesn't hate Waters, although they might because he bought Mack another week. Regardless, shut the eff up dumbass.
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how is the other board handling the Waters issue?
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The other board is blaming playcalling. I agree with that assessment.
Sams rushed for 6.0 yards per carry which is exactly what Ole Miss did to Texas. He only had 8 carries though and Texas completely sold out for the run on many of those plays. We should have proven that Sams could throw in the non conference to keep the defenses more honest when he comes in.
Waters was 19/30 (63%) with 9.2 yards per pass.
Waters only got 1.4 yards per run with 18 attempts.
I don't really care which QB we go with but Sams has to throw some to keep the defense honest and Waters has to throw a lot more and use regular running plays instead of option (hopefully with Demarcus Robinson).
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Waters has to throw a lot more and use regular running plays instead of option (hopefully with Demarcus Robinson).
Waters isn't a good enough QB and the OL isn't good enough for this to work.
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
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Love the TeamWaters ppl pointing out sams not having any td last night. Like telling a boxer he can't use his right then declaring the other boxer the champ for winning the bout. Just stupid. Stupid of bill, stupid of our fans, just rough ridin' stupid.
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It looks like we're going to lose more than win this season, and I would rather lose with Sams getting 90% of the snaps.
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Fwiw I cussed him out a lot last night in front of a bunch of children. I might have embarrassed Gooch.
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Glad I changed my name back as to not be associated with this "Jake".
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The safeties basically had their toes on the line of scrimmage when Sams came in the game. There has to be something else going on behind the scenes that makes Bill feel like he has to play H2OMG more than SAMs, or SAMs must have an injury that prevents him from throwing the ball. Our defensive line sucks so hard this year (Blame Mo) that we have to score 40+ points to win, so when we go 3 and out, it's real bad. Like real bad guys. Like real real bad.
SAMs is the qb of the future for this program and you can tell the other players like him more than H2OMG, so since we will barely make a bowl game this year, we might as well give SAMs all of the snaps so he can win us the NC his senior year. Of course, this only happens if we fire Mo and get some decent 4 year players on our D-line and stop relying on JuCos and trying to beef up poor white kids like Mueller to compete with 350 pound O-linemen every week.
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H2OMG
Heh.
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
You honestly can't say that about Sams, we haven't had the chance to see. I don't think Waters sucks, play calling has put him in a shitty position since he doesn't fit as a dual threat
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Glad I changed my name back as to not be associated with this "Jake".
he sounds like the dorky "jake" you were confused with.
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We've all seen how shitty waters is at the run game.,think it's only fair to see how shitty sam's passing is....
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
what is it about sams you find suckiest? is it his 0 turnovers, his 75% completion %, or his 7+ yards per carry?
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
what is it about sams you find suckiest? is it his 0 turnovers, his 75% completion %, or his 7+ yards per carry?
I think its fair to give the coaching staff responsibility for who they play, but it would also seem fair to at least give Sams some of the responsibility for not being able to overtake Waters last spring or this fall.
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beginning to look like waters has zapped sams
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
what is it about sams you find suckiest? is it his 0 turnovers, his 75% completion %, or his 7+ yards per carry?
I think its fair to give the coaching staff responsibility for who they play, but it would also seem fair to at least give Sams some of the responsibility for not being able to overtake Waters last spring or this fall.
we've touched on this, but waters' arm is good and I'm sure it looks even better in practice where there's no threat to get hit (which probably also makes him look like a much better runner). it's possible the staff was simply looking for the best passer. if that's the case, sams probably didn't stand a chance.
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Sams Sucks. Waters Sucks. End Of Story.
what is it about sams you find suckiest? is it his 0 turnovers, his 75% completion %, or his 7+ yards per carry?
I think its fair to give the coaching staff responsibility for who they play, but it would also seem fair to at least give Sams some of the responsibility for not being able to overtake Waters last spring or this fall.
If this were the first time that LHC Bill Snyder flubbed a QB competition I would give him some leaway (not as much as you have, but more than I am) but it's not. He played Dunn over Ell for over a year and played Coffman over Klein for a year. I'm not going to concede that Sams sucks just because LHC Bill Snyder tells me to. You shouldn't either _FAN. All the data points we have from actual playing of football indicate otherwise.
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we've touched on this, but waters' arm is good and I'm sure it looks even better in practice where there's no threat to get hit (which probably also makes him look like a much better runner). it's possible the staff was simply looking for the best passer. if that's the case, sams probably didn't stand a chance.
The staff is going to look for who they think gives them the best chance to win, period. While they can and will make mistakes (and have in the past), it seems simplistic to me to absolve Sams of all responsibility because of some preconceived bias from the staff. It would seem that Sams had all the advantages going into last spring with 2 seasons at K-State under his belt and one as the back-up QB behind Klein last season. I will even dismiss his first year because he was mainly a scout team player, but I refuse to just let him slide with the advantage he had over Waters coming into spring football last year.
I think the play calling in games and use of the QB in games are fair game because I think they've been mismanaged, but it takes a tremendous Sams' bias to completely dismiss him of any responsibility in not being able to take the starting QB job from Waters.
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I'm not going to concede that Sams sucks just because LHC Bill Snyder tells me to. You shouldn't either _FAN. All the data points we have from actual playing of football indicate otherwise.
That's fair, and I acknowledge that this isn't a first time thing under Snyder.
Also, I never said Sams sucks, nor did I mean to imply it. I am only saying he didn't/hasn't passed Waters and he's had opportunities to do so.
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I'm not going to concede that Sams sucks just because LHC Bill Snyder tells me to. You shouldn't either _FAN. All the data points we have from actual playing of football indicate otherwise.
That's fair, and I acknowledge that this isn't a first time thing under Snyder.
Also, I never said Sams sucks, nor did I mean to imply it. I am only saying he didn't/hasn't passed Waters and he's had opportunities to do so.
bill isn't infallable _FAN. he's not the rough ridin' pope. "he hasn't passed waters and he's had the opportunities to do so" is a lot of LHC Bill Snyder apology in one sentence.
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bill isn't infallable _FAN. he's not the rough ridin' pope. "he hasn't passed waters and he's had the opportunities to do so" is a lot of LHC Bill Snyder apology in one sentence.
I don't think he's infallible and he clearly makes mistakes, but overall in his career he's been pretty good with QBs. Even in the examples you cited, both Roberson and Klein developed into really good QBs after having to compete with guys that had a much worse career than they did. Its reasonable that this is happening again with Sams, but we'll see. And I'm not sold that Roberson or Klein would've been better off had they just been inserted into the starting line-up from the start in their situations either. If that makes me a tuckish Snyder apologist so be it.
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Would Klein have looked good if we had asked him to pass way more than he was capable of? Like, it’s all about what was/is involved in the competition. A midget isn’t going to win a high jump, but he’ll win a limbo contest.
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It's pretty unlike you to go against what we've seen on the field to default to Snyder must be right anyway because he's Bill. That would make a pretty terrible _FAN Frames. Like, maybe a Kitchen Frames.
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Would Klein have looked good if we had asked him to pass way more than he was capable of? Like, it’s all about what was/is involved in the competition. A midget isn’t going to win a high jump, but he’ll win a limbo contest.
Again, I have no problem questioning how they've been used in games. The fact that Sams hasn't been allowed to throw or check into throws isn't good in-game coaching if they really wanted to give him a shot in games.
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This is far worse than Dunn starting over Roberson and Coffman starting over Klein because Dunn and Coffman didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as Waters is. Both Klein and Roberson were poor passers early in their careers, so it made a little bit of sense that Bill would be afraid to play them every down, but you don't bench a guy for being a poor passer and then keep playing another guy who can't protect the football.
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It's pretty unlike you to go against what we've seen on the field to default to Snyder must be right anyway because he's Bill. That would make a pretty terrible _FAN Frames. Like, maybe a Kitchen Frames.
I've let the evidence speak in my analysis, and will again this week. My entire point is not to say Snyder is infallible and 100% correct with this decision, nor is it to say that Sams not playing is 100% his fault. But I do not think its unfair to give Sams a bit of the responsibility in not passing Waters by this point.
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This is far worse than Dunn starting over Roberson and Coffman starting over Klein because Dunn and Coffman didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as Waters is. Both Klein and Roberson were poor passers early in their careers, so it made a little bit of sense that Bill would be afraid to play them every down, but you don't bench a guy for being a poor passer and then keep playing another guy who can't protect the football.
Dunn's first year at K-State he completed 49% of his passes at 5.7 YPA and had 4 TDs to go with 8 TDs.
I partially understand the Coffman hate, but his SR year numbers were actually pretty good; 65% completions, 7.8 YPA, 14 TDs and 7 INTs. That team had much bigger issues than Coffman.
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I imagine that in practice, Waters and Sams see exactly the same look defensively, which is very unrealistic because Sams is never going to face the defensive packages that Waters has been facing. If Bill were to review the Texas tape and have the scout team play that way against Sams, I think he would be pleasantly surprised at just how well the air raid works.
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i'm usually pretty quick to defend snyder, but this whole situation has me so perplexed. i just don't get it. we all saw sams in the spring game, against the same shitty defense waters faced.
by all accounts, sams is a respected teammate that has maybe missed some classes, shown up late to a few things, but generally respected and not in the "doghouse."
he hasn't turned the ball over in games, he's completed most of the passes that he's been allowed to throw. he is a dynamic runner and athlete.
we are still calling QB runs with rough ridin' waters in the game. and just so we're clear that's all on the Dimel/Miller machine. mainly Dimel. the whole "clear it with bill" thing about play calling never existed or at least doesn't exist anymore.
if sams really does suck at passing i just wish he would put him in when we're down by 30 against okie state and let him just throw the eff out of the ball, to prove it to everyone. but until then, what in the hell is going on.
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This is far worse than Dunn starting over Roberson and Coffman starting over Klein because Dunn and Coffman didn't turn the ball over nearly as much as Waters is. Both Klein and Roberson were poor passers early in their careers, so it made a little bit of sense that Bill would be afraid to play them every down, but you don't bench a guy for being a poor passer and then keep playing another guy who can't protect the football.
Dunn's first year at K-State he completed 49% of his passes at 5.7 YPA and had 4 TDs to go with 8 TDs.
I partially understand the Coffman hate, but his SR year numbers were actually pretty good; 65% completions, 7.8 YPA, 14 TDs and 7 INTs. That team had much bigger issues than Coffman.
Waters has a better completion percentage, but he has turned the ball over 7 times in 4 games. If he would throw the ball away more often, he would get sacked less and have less turnovers, but his completion percentage and YPA would look a bit worse.
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i'm usually pretty quick to defend snyder, but this whole situation has me so perplexed. i just don't get it. we all saw sams in the spring game, against the same shitty defense waters faced.
by all accounts, sams is a respected teammate that has maybe missed some classes, shown up late to a few things, but generally respected and not in the "doghouse."
he hasn't turned the ball over in games, he's completed most of the passes that he's been allowed to throw. he is a dynamic runner and athlete.
we are still calling QB runs with rough ridin' waters in the game. and just so we're clear that's all on the Dimel/Miller machine. mainly Dimel. the whole "clear it with bill" thing about play calling never existed or at least doesn't exist anymore.
if sams really does suck at passing i just wish he would put him in when we're down by 30 against okie state and let him just throw the eff out of the ball, to prove it to everyone. but until then, what in the hell is going on.
yeah
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Waters has a better completion percentage, but he has turned the ball over 7 times in 4 games. If he would throw the ball away more often, he would get sacked less and have less turnovers, but his completion percentage and YPA would look a bit worse.
The turnovers are a humongous problem. I do wish Sams would get a more complete offensive package when he is in games.
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i'm usually pretty quick to defend snyder, but this whole situation has me so perplexed. i just don't get it. we all saw sams in the spring game, against the same shitty defense waters faced.
by all accounts, sams is a respected teammate that has maybe missed some classes, shown up late to a few things, but generally respected and not in the "doghouse."
he hasn't turned the ball over in games, he's completed most of the passes that he's been allowed to throw. he is a dynamic runner and athlete.
we are still calling QB runs with rough ridin' waters in the game. and just so we're clear that's all on the Dimel/Miller machine. mainly Dimel. the whole "clear it with bill" thing about play calling never existed or at least doesn't exist anymore.
if sams really does suck at passing i just wish he would put him in when we're down by 30 against okie state and let him just throw the eff out of the ball, to prove it to everyone. but until then, what in the hell is going on.
yeah
Agreed, those are all reasonable questions and concerns.
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I'm not going to concede that Sams sucks just because LHC Bill Snyder tells me to. You shouldn't either _FAN. All the data points we have from actual playing of football indicate otherwise.
That's fair, and I acknowledge that this isn't a first time thing under Snyder.
Also, I never said Sams sucks, nor did I mean to imply it. I am only saying he didn't/hasn't passed Waters and he's had opportunities to do so.
bill isn't infallable _FAN. he's not the rough ridin' pope. "he hasn't passed waters and he's had the opportunities to do so" is a lot of LHC Bill Snyder apology in one sentence.
#popefrancis4ksu
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Shitty running and staring down receivers bother me, but honestly I could totally live with that if we were winning and not turning the ball over. Snyder has always been about protecting the ball, not making stupid mistakes, and running the clock. It's like he couldn't give a crap about any one of the three this season.
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Shitty running and staring down receivers bother me, but honestly I could totally live with that if we were winning and not turning the ball over. Snyder has always been about protecting the ball, not making stupid mistakes, and running the clock. It's like he couldn't give a crap about any one of the three this season.
yeah, our new 3 and outs take up about 1/2 of the clock time that our old 3 and outs did. TX getting 45 cracks at our new lynch mob isn't really a recipe for success when we aren't scoring for crap.
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also, I blame the good plays for not being able to overcome the shitty plays despite having years of sitting in that tome of a playbook to do so. they bear some of the responsibility here.
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Maybe Waters is the starter because he can come from behind when we are down multiple scores. I mean just look at how well Waters managed that 2 minute drill at the end of the game. If Sams were back there running the ball, we probably would have used 7, maybe 8 more seconds on that drive.
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Honest question I've been asking myself...
What was more painful to watch? Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?
I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.
But, either way, they're both horrible.
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Honest question I've been asking myself...
What was more painful to watch? Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?
I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.
But, either way, they're both horrible.
c) Waters running speed option.
We actually had some nice plays off of zone read vs UT and I can't complain about that too much, but Waters is terrible on speed option.
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
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Honest question I've been asking myself...
What was more painful to watch? Dunn running the option or Waters running the zone read?
I'm inclined to say Dunn, but only because he had a better line blocking for him, so I'm assuming that it could have looked a lot worse.
But, either way, they're both horrible.
The fact that it's even called baffles me. I get it, we want to make Waters less one dimensional. But we would be 1000x more successful if we put Sams back there and said "you know it's coming, now TRY and stop him, [redacted]".
c) Waters running speed option.
We actually had some nice plays off of zone read vs UT and I can't complain about that too much, but Waters is terrible on speed option.
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.
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2004 Webb/Meier redux = confirmed
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
his stud receiver had 1,626 receiving yards and 25 TDs in his one juco season. he was the #1 ranked juco recruit in the country by Rivals.
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.
frank's playing him out of position too
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.
He has enough time to make at least one check down. The o line sucking is overplayed, imo.
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here's something you may consider when you watch waters stare at TLBL for 5 seconds and then either throw him the ball or panic. like 99% of his juco record passing yards were to one guy. he had a stud wr who could not be defended by juco DBs on his team that he threw the ball to on every down.
He doesn't have enough time in the pocket to run through his progressions. Our O-line sucks, explains why Hubert can't run for crap also.
frank's playing him out of position too
:thumbs:
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Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? :frown:
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Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? :frown:
3-1 for sure. I don't think Waters is THAT bad. He made some great throws. (Not saying Sams couldn't have made them). But he's also the absolute WORST sometimes. Can't turn the ball over and can't run the ball timidly/like a pussy.
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Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? :frown:
3-1 for sure. I don't think Waters is THAT bad. He made some great throws. (Not saying Sams couldn't have made them). But he's also the absolute WORST sometimes. Can't turn the ball over and can't run the ball timidly/like a pussy.
Both QBs are set up for failure in this little crap system we're doing now. Pick the better one (Sams) and ride or die. Go cats.
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We all know either QB is capable if the correct play calling is there. Waters just isn't ready/comfortable with the option yet. If they want to run option, it has to be Sams, but they have to let Sams throw. They can't continue to be this predictable. I think Waters does fine with the zone read, but he simply isn't ready to run speed option to the boundary side, so stop doing it. Also, they did nothing nothing with the zone to set up play action or a run pass option.
Snyder and staff are head over heels for Jake's efficiency as a thrower and for good reason. But, the play calling and tempo of the offense has to change to match our personnel. The OL is better and more physical when they're allowed to be aggressive. Taking forever to huddle up and call passing plays where they are in drop back protection just kills them. Also, Waters is much better when he can get the ball out in a 3 or 5 step drop or faster. They have to stop calling the slow developing pass plays they ran with Klein. Sams and Waters both have quicker releases.
Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).
It's ridiculous that the offensive staff can't match up the correct portion of that giant playbook with our current personnel. Stop calling plays for Klein, he is gone. Stop under utilizing your FB and TE, they're capable of more than just blocking. Stop castrating your OL with unaggressive/non-physical play calling. I'm not sure they have the vertical passing game figured out either, I think Lockett is just a beast and is bailing them out.
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Are we 4-0 if we ride or die with Sams 100% of the plays? :frown:
Probably. The difference in mentality, confidence, etc., whatever label you want to give those intangibles, gets it done the first three and most likely against UT. And if all Texas had prepped for was Sams and the run game became a liability, insert Waters who likely has a better chance for success against an unprepared D with a new DC. The bigger problem has been play calling with the two of them, but starting Sams from the get-go probably eliminates a lot of those issue, too.
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
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If we go with waters, we honestly need to forget all about QB runs with only extremely rare exceptions. Change the entire plan and man the positions accordingly.
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Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).
If the coaches insist on playing Waters, it's mind-boggling that we don't actually run plays that he could, I don't know, actually be successful with.
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what in the hell is going on.
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Furthermore, we didn't use TE or FB at all. I don't understand why when using Waters we aren't pushing tempo, moving TE and FB around without subbing, don't let the defense sub, and eff with them on alignment. We can still control time of possession and push tempo at the same time (even if we have to run the check with me, which I hate).
If the coaches insist on playing Waters, it's mind-boggling that we don't actually run plays that he could, I don't know, actually be successful with.
Yeah, it amazes me that we haven't thrown out a bunch of short tight end stuff.
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If we go with waters, we honestly need to forget all about QB runs with only extremely rare exceptions. Change the entire plan and man the positions accordingly.
I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
It makes perfect sense to play a guy that can't run the offense you won 21 games and a conference title in two years, and if you do play him, you need to change a lot of the fundamental pieces of said offense to something the team isn't built to run.
I'm going to end up having a stroke this year. Which is ironic because all of our coaches are so old that they should have higher risk for it.
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The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.
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The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.
If waters plays the majority of the snaps @ ku, we seriously might lose.
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The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.
His interceptions are a product of poor passing game play calling and Waters trying to force the ball because he can't/won't tuck it and run. Also, he isn't comfortable with 75% or more of our QB run game. Ultimately it falls on the coaching staff to see this and correct it. If they've coached him not to force the ball, because they won't improve they're play calling, then he should have been pulled in favor of Sams (who will run instead of forcing, therefore bailing out the poor play calling).
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The plays we have been calling for Waters could definitely improve, but they aren't the reason Waters has turned the ball over like crazy. We would be winning games with Waters at QB if he were capable of protecting the football. He just doesn't know how to manage the offense and win.
His interceptions are a product of poor passing game play calling and Waters trying to force the ball because he can't/won't tuck it and run. Also, he isn't comfortable with 75% or more of our QB run game. Ultimately it falls on the coaching staff to see this and correct it. If they've coached him not to force the ball, because they won't improve they're play calling, then he should have been pulled in favor of Sams (who will run instead of forcing, therefore bailing out the poor play calling).
He could also, you know, just throw the ball away. Has he even done that at all this season? I recall on time it looked like maybe he was trying to do that against NDSU, but that ball was intercepted because he is such an inaccurate passer he can't even hit a sideline that is 100 yards wide.
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Throw aways were probably taken out of his bag of allowable tricks so that he wouldn't throw it away every time we ran an option.
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he is such an inaccurate passer he can't even hit a sideline that is 100 yards wide.
The INTs and QB run game are a problem, but this is just based on blind hate of the guy and not what he's actually done in games. I don't think he's just lucked into 67% completions; he throws the ball well and has a really quick release. He's just made at least 5 terrible decisions with throws, but his accuracy is fine.
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he is such an inaccurate passer he can't even hit a sideline that is 100 yards wide.
The INTs and QB run game are a problem, but this is just based on blind hate of the guy and not what he's actually done in games. I don't think he's just lucked into 70% completions; he throws the ball well and has a really quick release. He's just made at least 5 terrible decisions with throws, but his accuracy is fine.
I was done by the time he started fumbling so I didn't see the cause. Spinning the football in his hand prior to throwing probably needs to stop regardless
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I was done by the time he started fumbling so I didn't see the cause.
butt
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That would make a pretty terrible _FAN Frames. Like, maybe a Kitchen Frames.
:D
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2004 Webb/Meier redux = confirmed
this was a great point. Meier pretty much played the whole season, gets spaghetti brained against OU, Webb starts against Nubb and we destroy them, then we play Meier against Tech and lose. Meier starts agains MU, then Webb comes in the second half to save the day.
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncf/recap?gameId=243110142
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
Couldn't be any worse than some of Klein's passing in 2010 and beginning of 2011
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
I would like more inverted veer plays
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Waters is our QB. Sams isn't good enough to unseat him. Seems pretty damn straight forward don't you think?
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Sams is bbs'ing without his index fingers.
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Waters is our QB. Sams isn't good enough to unseat him. Seems pretty damn straight forward don't you think?
I can see how someone who doesn't know crap about football (you, _FAN) would believe this.
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Didn't read all this thread . . . if Waters is going to be the guy, than run an offense that's suited for his game and quit all the QB run game BS once and for all, and quit making the O-Line man have to adjust for what each QB does better than the other.
This is why you recruit guys that are the best fit for your system, and the style of QB that has brought you the greatest amount of success.
The QB situation falls fully on Snyder for being unable to land quality true dual threat QB's. Whiffing again and again on Dual Threat QB's over 4 recruiting classes is like a Rolls-Royce salesman leaving an Arab Oil Sheik trade show not having racked up one sale, or the guy from Lockheed Martin not closing one deal at the Paris Air Show.
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
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Waters is our QB. Sams isn't good enough to unseat him. Seems pretty damn straight forward don't you think?
I can see how someone who doesn't know crap about football (you, _FAN) would believe this.
FTR, I have never said Sams isn't good enough, because I don't know based on what I've seen. Clearly is a dynamic quarterback, but his play selection has been so limited I don't know what he can do. My assumption based on how he's used in games is that the coaches don't trust him, but then Snyder keeps saying bizarre stuff in interviews. I have said that I do put part of the responsibility on him for not beating out Waters, but that is an assumption that he was given a fair shot in practice since last January to do so.
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
it's obvious to everyone but a very special select few (one of who (whom?) unfortunately gets to decide). during our game twitter was a who's who of other team media, website owners and analysts saying the exact things most of us are saying.
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
it's obvious to everyone but a very special select few (one of who (whom?) unfortunately gets to decide). during our game twitter was a who's who of other team media, website owners and analysts saying the exact things most of us are saying.
That's the power of groupthink.
If everyone inside the coaching staff thinks it's right and obvious, even when the outside majority says, "WTF?" They'll still make the same head-scratching decisions because the groupthink is so prevalent.
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
it's obvious to everyone but a very special select few (one of who (whom?) unfortunately gets to decide). during our game twitter was a who's who of other team media, website owners and analysts saying the exact things most of us are saying.
That's the power of groupthink.
If everyone inside the coaching staff thinks it's right and obvious, even when the outside majority says, "WTF?" They'll still make the same head-scratching decisions because the groupthink is so prevalent.
Maybe the rest of us are all caught up in some Sams group think :runaway:
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
it's obvious to everyone but a very special select few (one of who (whom?) unfortunately gets to decide). during our game twitter was a who's who of other team media, website owners and analysts saying the exact things most of us are saying.
That's the power of groupthink.
If everyone inside the coaching staff thinks it's right and obvious, even when the outside majority says, "WTF?" They'll still make the same head-scratching decisions because the groupthink is so prevalent.
Maybe the rest of us are all caught up in some Sams group think :runaway:
yeah, that's probably what's causing our football team to suck so hard
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:dubious:
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a Mizzou coworker just basically reiterated all of the (good) talking points in this thread. so like, it's obvious to outsiders. rough ridin', what.
it's obvious to everyone but a very special select few (one of who (whom?) unfortunately gets to decide). during our game twitter was a who's who of other team media, website owners and analysts saying the exact things most of us are saying.
That's the power of groupthink.
If everyone inside the coaching staff thinks it's right and obvious, even when the outside majority says, "WTF?" They'll still make the same head-scratching decisions because the groupthink is so prevalent.
Maybe the rest of us are all caught up in some Sams group think :runaway:
or have all of our mental faculties
:dunno:
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
Like the spring game where he threw a pick against one of the scrubbiest defenses on earth?
He doesn't play for a reason.
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
Like the spring game where he threw a pick against one of the scrubbiest defenses on earth?
He doesn't play for a reason.
lol at how hard it is to find a negative data point for sams :lol:
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Eastcat, did you defend Dunn like this, too?
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
Like the spring game where he threw a pick against one of the scrubbiest defenses on earth?
He doesn't play for a reason.
lol at how hard it is to find a negative data point for sams :lol:
Not enough data on him to work with. It's like you guys are Jehovah Witnesses and #LIFE is Jesus. Sure you say he can throw it around but I nor any of you have seen it so I have a hard time believing it.
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75% #LIFEtime completion percentage tho
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We have seen Waters throw it, and while he is a good passer, imo, he also has a high amt of interceptions.
Also, we have seen waters run and it is the absolute worst.
Sams running = Ell
Sams throwing simply can't be bad enough to overshadow his running ability so that the two don't equate to more than the sum of Waters' running/throwing. Also, we have seen him do it well.
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I have watched enough LHC Bill Snyder football to know that any QB who can run as well as Sams does in this system is going to have plenty of wide open receivers down the field to throw bombs to over the course of a season. I don't actually have to see Sams throw one to know that he is capable of it because anyone is capable of hitting wide open wide receivers.
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Sams throwing simply can't be bad enough to overshadow his running ability so that the two don't equate to more than the sum of Waters' running/throwing. Also, we have seen him do it well.
This.
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Sams throwing simply can't be bad enough to overshadow his running ability so that the two don't equate to more than the sum of Waters' running/throwing. Also, we have seen him do it well.
This.
If he would've thrown 2 GD times the game would've been different. All he had to go is 1 for 2 and we score. Robinson must've received a phone call from Snyder and Dimel that we were absolutely not going to throw the ball with Sams. for effs sake, even Klein converted WR was able to throw against Texas.
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Waters is our QB. Sams isn't good enough to unseat him. Seems pretty damn straight forward don't you think?
Your screen name is so on point right now.
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my mizzou neighbor has bet on the cats the last 2 weeks. he hates waters, loves sams and thinks snyder is a dumbass for not playing him. in fact, every non-dumbass i've spoke to thinks sams should start.
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Spaghetti Brainz whippin' his ass.
http://www.goreivers.com/sports/news.asp?Sport=football&Num=1360
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:lynchmob:
Spaghetti Brainz whippin' his ass.
http://www.goreivers.com/sports/news.asp?Sport=football&Num=1360
a 25-0 victory over North Dakota State College of Science at Bute Alumni Stadium
Is this a real?
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
Like the spring game where he threw a pick against one of the scrubbiest defenses on earth?
He doesn't play for a reason.
lol at how hard it is to find a negative data point for sams :lol:
You mean the one time in history that he has thrown more than 5 passes? I can't reiterate enough how shitty our first string defense is, let alone our 2nd string spring game squad.
Maybe the pass to Harper against oSu in the endzone while he was in triple coverage last year?
The whole point of a QB is the ability to throw the football. If Sams is so incredible at running have him play RB or WR.
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Spaghetti Brainz whippin' his ass.
http://www.goreivers.com/sports/news.asp?Sport=football&Num=1360
so we traded bender for waters :facepalm:
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I think Sams could run the offense we called for Collin. The rest of the team has a bit of experience in it as well.
He doesn't have the bulk to run between the tackles like collin did at all. Collin was a rare animal, Neither Sams nor Waters are going to be successful in an offense designed around CK.
It's pretty obvious that Sams passing game isn't effective enough to use in a game. I don't think Bill smiles on the sidelines while losing to crap teams.
Our O-Line's ability to pass block is very limited. They rarely had to do it under Collin. Watching the Baylor/oSu offensive lines pass block compared to ours makes me want to cry.
hey maybe if you just keep saying it you'll eventually have some evidence to back it up.
but probably not.
Like the spring game where he threw a pick against one of the scrubbiest defenses on earth?
He doesn't play for a reason.
lol at how hard it is to find a negative data point for sams :lol:
You mean the one time in history that he has thrown more than 5 passes? I can't reiterate enough how shitty our first string defense is, let alone our 2nd string spring game squad.
Maybe the pass to Harper against oSu in the endzone while he was in triple coverage last year?
The whole point of a QB is the ability to throw the football. If Sams is so incredible at running have him play RB or WR.
the thing about sams is that he's our best option throwing and running. so playing him at QB when we have turnoverdeliverysystem.com taking snaps is pretty much a no brainer.
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If we had Payton Manning on the roster or something, then yeah, ask Sams to switch positions so he can see the field. The QB that we have is not a great passer, though. He's about average at throwing the ball and he's the worst QB in the league in terms of not turning the ball over, avoiding pressure, and converting short yardage situations. You would just have to blindly hate Sams to not want him in the lineup at this point.
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Couple of questions...
1. Didn't eastcat at one point have the "racist POS" tagline on his profile? If so, explains a lot.
2. On tapatalk so it is hard to see, but is eastcat's avatar a picture of @DS4ms? If so, that makes no sense.
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is eastcat's avatar a picture of @DS4ms?
Confirmed
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Updated:
Name Team TD%
Bryce Petty Baylor 11.9%
Clint Chelf Okla St 10.7%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 9.3%
David Ash Texas 8.0%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 7.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 6.0%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 5.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 4.0%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 3.2%
Case McCoy Texas 1.8%
Name Team INT%
Bryce Petty Baylor 0.0%
Clint Chelf Okla St 0.0%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 0.0%
Case McCoy Texas 0.0%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 1.2%
David Ash Texas 2.3%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 2.7%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 2.8%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 4.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 5.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
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eastcat's avatar a picture of @DS4ms
one of life's greatest mysteries. you don't see K-S-U W strolling around with an obama avatar. so weird.
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Updated:
Name Team TD%
Bryce Petty Baylor 11.9%
Clint Chelf Okla St 10.7%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 9.3%
David Ash Texas 8.0%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 7.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 6.0%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 5.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 4.0%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 3.2%
Case McCoy Texas 1.8%
Name Team INT%
Bryce Petty Baylor 0.0%
Clint Chelf Okla St 0.0%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 0.0%
Case McCoy Texas 0.0%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 1.2%
David Ash Texas 2.3%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 2.7%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 2.8%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 4.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 5.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
so jake waters is slightly better at throwing TDs than the WR that TCU was forced into playing at QB but worse by a larger margin as far as throwing picks.
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Updated:
Name Team TD%
Bryce Petty Baylor 11.9%
Clint Chelf Okla St 10.7%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 9.3%
David Ash Texas 8.0%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 7.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 6.0%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 5.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 4.0%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 3.2%
Case McCoy Texas 1.8%
Name Team INT%
Bryce Petty Baylor 0.0%
Clint Chelf Okla St 0.0%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 0.0%
Case McCoy Texas 0.0%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 1.2%
David Ash Texas 2.3%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 2.7%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 2.8%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 4.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 5.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
so jake waters is slightly better at throwing TDs than the WR that TCU was forced into playing at QB but worse by a larger margin as far as throwing picks.
TCU has played an easier schedule
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Spaghetti Brainz whippin' his ass.
http://www.goreivers.com/sports/news.asp?Sport=football&Num=1360
so we traded bender for waters :facepalm:
The redshirt freshman from Lincoln, who transferred from Kansas State to Iowa Western prior to this spring, eclipsed the school’s single-game rushing mark by a quarterback in a steady rain Saturday.
We dumped Bender because he was a runner, obviously.
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Updated:
Name Team TD%
Bryce Petty Baylor 11.9%
Clint Chelf Okla St 10.7%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 9.3%
David Ash Texas 8.0%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 7.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 6.0%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 5.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 4.0%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 3.2%
Case McCoy Texas 1.8%
Name Team INT%
Bryce Petty Baylor 0.0%
Clint Chelf Okla St 0.0%
Blake Bell Oklahoma 0.0%
Case McCoy Texas 0.0%
J.W. Walsh Okla St 1.2%
David Ash Texas 2.3%
Baker Mayfield Texas Tech 2.7%
Sam Richardson Iowa State 2.8%
Trevone Boykin TCU 3.3%
Jake Heaps Kansas 4.3%
Jake Waters Kansas St 5.0%
Davis Webb Texas Tech 6.3%
so jake waters is slightly better at throwing TDs than the WR that TCU was forced into playing at QB but worse by a larger margin as far as throwing picks.
TCU has played an easier schedule and Boykin hasn't had the tough situational throws that Waters has had.
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Jake Spradling or Will Waters?
Jill Waterling?
Wake Wadling?
I dunno.
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Wake Wadling
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Take Balldling
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Jill Spradlers
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Jill Spradlers
:thumbs:
i really was trying to figure out a last name to Jill. That's wonderful.
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You photo shop wizzards to need to get to work on this. Just two buds, hanging out in Manhattan....
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You photo shop wizzards to need to get to work on this. Just two buds, hanging out in Manhattan....
Sounds like a Poetwarrior narrative idea.
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H2NO
Credit to Colbert. http://www.colbertnation.com/the-colbert-report-videos/429200/september-19-2013/michelle-obama-s-h2o-campaign
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he stinks
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Someone teach him how to dump the ball off. Taking a sack because he refuses to hit a wide open Gronk in the flat :curse:
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He is having a decent running game. Good for him.
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He is having a decent running game. Good for him.
he is better at running than passing.
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As long as he doesn't make stupid mistakes, then trim 3:16
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waters :facepalm:
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:confused: Waters is 18 of 24 passing for 213 and 2 tds AND has 104 yards rushing..... :dunno:
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:confused: Waters is 18 of 24 passing for 213 and 2 tds AND has 104 yards rushing..... :dunno:
well he's not passing the eye test
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:confused: Waters is 18 of 24 passing for 213 and 2 tds AND has 104 yards rushing..... :dunno:
well he's not passing the eye test
make that 20 of 26 for 232 and 3 tds....
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:confused: Waters is 18 of 24 passing for 213 and 2 tds AND has 104 yards rushing..... :dunno:
well he's not passing the eye test
make that 20 of 26 for 232 and 3 tds....
Bunch of dumbasses on this board
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Wildcatnation, you should try starting another board
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Is it still the consensus that Webb > Waters?
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Jeff volters makes me want to puke
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Wildcatnation, you should try starting another board
Say that to my face
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Wildcatnation, you should try starting another board
Say that to my face
ok. come to sd and i will say it to your face like the mature adult that i am.
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
i'd be curious to see how often that lockett drop is mentioned as some sort of reason that jake had a good game against auburn.
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GE'ing is getting out of hand, the board is becoming incredibly boring.
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GE'ing is getting out of hand, the board is becoming incredibly boring.
who's GE'ing?
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Waters had a great game. Some asshats always feel the need to piss all over him.
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Sexton and Lockett bailed him out several times last night. He was great running the ball but his numbers are in now way indicative of how he threw it. I'm sure some jackass who watched at home or didn't watch at all will attempt to argue but several of the big pass plays were because of receivers making adjustments on under thrown balls or balls behind them.
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Sexton and Lockett bailed him out several times last night. He was great running the ball but his numbers are in now way indicative of how he threw it. I'm sure some jackass who watched at home or didn't watch at all will attempt to argue but several of the big pass plays were because of receivers making adjustments on under thrown balls or balls behind them.
Come on man. This could be said for any QB. Sometimes receivers bail you out, and sometimes they drop wide open passes. At the end of the day, the numbers speak for themselves. He's a good QB with a good receiving corp. Hes also a decent runner with good pocket presence.
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
i'd be curious to see how often that lockett drop is mentioned as some sort of reason that jake had a good game against auburn.
I think he played pretty well against one of the best defenses in the country. Yep.
Don't know if I'd call it a really good performance. Certainly wasn't great.
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:zzz:
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
i'd be curious to see how often that lockett drop is mentioned as some sort of reason that jake had a good game against auburn.
I think he played pretty well against one of the best defenses in the country. Yep.
Don't know if I'd call it a really good performance. Certainly wasn't great.
QBR of 33.9?
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
i'd be curious to see how often that lockett drop is mentioned as some sort of reason that jake had a good game against auburn.
I think he played pretty well against one of the best defenses in the country. Yep.
Don't know if I'd call it a really good performance. Certainly wasn't great.
QBR of 33.9?
Yeah, I mean, these ratings are calculated with numbers such as TDs and ints. If you want to ignore all context and perspective and simply rely on a QBR to tell you how well a guy played, that's fine. It is what it is. I'm not excusing the mistakes he made or he plays he missed. But the Lockett play was neither a play nor a mistake. He threw the ball perfectly and should have had 1 more TD and 1 less INT and, if he had, his QBR would have been a bit better.
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It would be super neat if Jake could have those types of games against Auburn, OU, TCU and Baylor.
I'd be curious to see how waters numbers against auburn stack up against other QBs. considering locketts dropped, perfectly placed TD pass.
i'd be curious to see how often that lockett drop is mentioned as some sort of reason that jake had a good game against auburn.
I think he played pretty well against one of the best defenses in the country. Yep.
Don't know if I'd call it a really good performance. Certainly wasn't great.
QBR of 33.9?
Yeah, I mean, these ratings are calculated with numbers such as TDs and ints. If you want to ignore all context and perspective and simply rely on a QBR to tell you how well a guy played, that's fine. It is what it is. I'm not excusing the mistakes he made or he plays he missed. But the Lockett play was neither a play nor a mistake. He threw the ball perfectly and should have had 1 more TD and 1 less INT and, if he had, his QBR would have been a bit better.
yeah, TD's and INt's are way rough ridin' overrated stats.
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And blah blah blah on the lockett catch. Jake is a 8-4 QB. That's it. Which is fine, I suppose. But against good teams, he's not good enough with his legs to make our offense be "balanced" in how it operates. Balance does not mean 50/50 it means doing enough of one thing well enough to do the other well enough. I could give a eff if jake throws for 250yds if we only rush for 40yds. The QB in bill's offense needs to be able to run enough against good teams to keep the defense honest. He can't do that. And his passing isn't elite enough to make up for it (nor is our OL and WR corp).
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Sexton and Lockett bailed him out several times last night. He was great running the ball but his numbers are in now way indicative of how he threw it. I'm sure some jackass who watched at home or didn't watch at all will attempt to argue but several of the big pass plays were because of receivers making adjustments on under thrown balls or balls behind them.
Going to the last two games has made me dislike jack even more. He makes it very tough for a rec to catch the ball and is pretty damn lucky that we have those two
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Yeah, man. Waters totally lucked into those 5 TD's. Phew!!!
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All that being said, i'm probably going to lament not having Waters next year when we run out whatever terrible QB we currently have on our roster now. Because those guys look like 4-8 QB's.
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Waters infuriates this fan base! :love:
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You guys whine too much, as do I. Imagine if we had Tech's qb. Woof.
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All that being said, i'm probably going to lament not having Waters next year when we run out whatever terrible QB we currently have on our roster now. Because those guys look like 4-8 QB's.
Maybe less :frown:
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And blah blah blah on the lockett catch. Jake is a 8-4 QB. That's it. Which is fine, I suppose. But against good teams, he's not good enough with his legs to make our offense be "balanced" in how it operates. Balance does not mean 50/50 it means doing enough of one thing well enough to do the other well enough. I could give a eff if jake throws for 250yds if we only rush for 40yds. The QB in bill's offense needs to be able to run enough against good teams to keep the defense honest. He can't do that. And his passing isn't elite enough to make up for it (nor is our OL and WR corp).
Haha. You're a complete dumbass. Do u realize he's, by far, the best rushing QB in the big12? Do u realize he's 6th in the conference in rushing yards and 4th in rushing TDs? The dude is going to rush for 1000+ and 12+.
And how do you define "good team"? Are OSU, tech, WVU, Baylor good teams? Because he already rushed for 100+ against tech and ISU and I'd expect him to put up similar rushing against all of these teams. Against losers like UT and KU, he could top 200.
If you're deriding waters because he can't run against OU and Auburn, both top 20 rush defenses, I think it's safe to say you're not judging him fairly or reasonably.
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If you think tech and isu are good, then you might not be judging fairly either
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This thread is so weird.
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The best rushing qb in the big 12 you say....that is interesting.
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jake is good. he's not great. daniel was good not great. they have different strengths and weaknesses. neither was ever going to be as good as bish, ell or colin. simple as that.
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I don't think he should tempt fate by playing oklahoma.
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This thread is so weird.
Yeah. Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30." When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards? Would have to think it was a Freeman led team. Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.
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This thread is so weird.
Yeah. Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30." When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards? Would have to think it was a Freeman led team. Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.
The "receivers bailed him out" is my favorite talking point by some of these dorks.
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Yeah, man. Waters totally lucked into those 5 TD's. Phew!!!
Wacky literally no one said that. Whenever this comes up the talk invariably goes to "Waters haters" when the true issue are the people who refuse to acknowledge Abby critique at all. By my count there were 7 phenomenal, beyond routine, catches; Sexton 1 hander, under throw to Sexton, behind Sexton, 2 under throws to Lockett where he picked the balls off of the turf, one severely behind Lockett, and a severe under throws to Cook.
I'm not saying he was awful last night that would be stupid. I mean if Waters was awful then what the hell was Webb? He didn't throw the ball as well as his numbers indicated.
Jake Waters is Jon Beasley 2.0
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OK. That's fair.
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jake is good. he's not great. daniel was good not great. they have different strengths and weaknesses. neither was ever going to be as good as bish, ell or colin. simple as that.
Yes. I also agree with the Beasley 2.0 comparison. Or Miller 2.0.
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This thread is so weird.
Yeah. Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30." When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards? Would have to think it was a Freeman led team. Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.
First of all the thread is 14 months old. Secondly, you too are being just as absolutist as the waters sucks crowd. Critiquing the quarterback comes with the gig, why do sensitive when it's Jake?
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Waters is over critiqued at times tho cause of what went down with Sams. Like, so ppl still can't get over it and they hate Waters for it. That just really annoys me.
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UPDATE:
Queso has as good an arm as Waters. Waters is not terrible, but it's debatable that he's in the upper half of the Big 12 no? Well lets see:
Clearly better:
Knight
Petty
Boykin
Trickett
Arguably better:
Garman
Clearly worse:
Webb
Swoopes
Richardson
Cozart
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waters is the fifth or sixth best QB in the big 12. that's not good enough for me.
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I evaluate waters on what he does and has done. If he goes to f'ing norman and throws for 150 w/ no picks and runs for 79 (4.6ypc), and because of his effective running/throwing allows our RB's to run for 100+yds and we walk away with a win, then i'll shut the eff up about jake rough ridin' waters. Because last year, jake threw for 348yds (2 picks) against OU but we could only run for 24 net yards.
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Waters is over critiqued at times tho cause of what went down with Sams. Like, so ppl still can't get over it and they hate Waters for it. That just really annoys me.
Some people will be irrational about quarterbacks no matter the situation, that doesn't matter all discussion is ridiculous and should be stifled. All waters critiques generally are rebutted with, you are a hater, get over Sams.
I will say that if we lose to TCU and Waters didn't play well, the pro lifers will go nuts because Sams was a much better QB than Boykin.
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As far as Boykin goes, the new TCU OCs deserve raises and promotions for what they've done to that offense. They instantly became a really scary team.
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I'm really concerned that he is going to get injured. He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.
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I'm really concerned that he is going to get injured. He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.
he'll probably get injured against tcu b/c they injure all of our players
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Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.
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They way he turns and flops back first makes me worry about injury a lot.
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He needs to slide way more and has to start avoiding getting sacked.
Its a tough balance. I get concerned because he's overly patient while waiting for his receivers to get open on longer developing routes. Its clear he has a lot of trust in Lockett and Sexton getting open, even if it takes a long time. That said, I don't really want him pulling it down and running a lot. He's gotten a lot better with the QB running game, but I agree he can only take so many shots because he's not a big guy.
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Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.
oh yeah, what has waters done?
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Jake Waters
Likes:
understands and can execute back shoulder throw to Lockett even when he is well covered
seems like he makes a lot of reads/checks, our playcalling has been good so far this year imo
has underrated ability to read/hit hole and decent speed
is able to throw a good deep ball
is able to make throws/reads to keep sticks moving
Dislikes:
does not throw the ball away/takes a lot of sacks/does not step up in pocket to deliver balls/does not evade with the purpose of making a throw well when there is pressure
not good throwing on the run
accuracy issues in general
speed option reads are painful to watch
RZ execution is bad (offense as a whole)
He is not bad. Waters possesses a key weakness that is terrifying -- he does not handle pressure well. Because of this, teams will continue to dial up blitzes the rest of the year in the hopes they can force the TO. The OU/TCU/UT/Baylor stretch will define Waters' career for better or worse.
As far as Waters' place in the Big 12 QB rankings. I think there are 4 tiers and Jake is Tier 2.
Gunslinger Elites- Fast paced, offenses designed to put up huge points, talented receivers to support them, can make all the throws
Petty
Trickett
Solid Gamers- make most of the throws, can win a game for you with arm or feet, Surrounding cast is solid, Defense/ST support
Boykin
Knight
Waters
Any Given Saturday- can put up a monster day and beat you deep if your defense is off its game, high TD/high INT #'s, wannabe elites
Webb
Garman
Bad- these guys are bad at football and will cost their teams many more games than they will win
Swoopes
Richardson
KU QB carousel
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"oh yeah"
Dumbass fourth-grader rejoinder
Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.
oh yeah, what has waters done?
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"oh yeah"
Dumbass fourth-grader rejoinder
Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.
oh yeah, what has waters done?
oh yeah?
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:D
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This thread is so weird.
Yeah. Hard for some people to admit that maybe they were wrong about "H30." When is the last time our offense had more than 500 yards? Would have to think it was a Freeman led team. Granted, we ran upwards of 80 plays last night, but 520 yards and 1 turnover is great.
First of all the thread is 14 months old. Secondly, you too are being just as absolutist as the waters sucks crowd. Critiquing the quarterback comes with the gig, why do sensitive when it's Jake?
Well, I critiqued jake a shitload last year. I hated him. At one point I think I posted something like "OK, that's it, i never want him to take another snap." And I think the Beasley comparisons are apt. I'm just saying that Jake (and Sexton/Lockett played a pretty damn good game last night, and our offense looked as good as it's ever looked -- whether that's due mostly to waters, the receivers, the line, whatever, I'm just happy that we looked great. Were all of his throws right on the money? No. But they were good enough to let our talented receivers make plays and score points.
I never have loved Waters unconditionally, but I do love Waters and our offense in weeks where he accrues 390 yards of offense, 5 TDs and no TOs.
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As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is. After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS. I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them.
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As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is. After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS. I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them.
Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.
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As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is. After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS. I wouldn't put any stock on numbers put up against them.
Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.
Yes. That's why our poor offensive showing against ISU worried me (ISU has the second worst defense behind Tech). But Waters was effective last night, and that's better than what we saw against ISU.
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As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is. After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS. I wouldn't put any stock on
numbers put up against them.
Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.
pfft. what game were you watching?
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As hard as it is to believe I think people are still not appreciating how shitty tech's defense is. After going through the big 12 season they will likely rank DFL in defense in the FBS. I wouldn't put any stock on
numbers put up against them.
Yeah they're very bad, probably the worst in the Big 12, but it's important to wood-shed bad defenses and we did that lastnight.
pfft. what game were you watching?
The one where we put up 45 points and the most yards we've had since 2008 ("28-28").
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jake really spread the ball around last night. he completed passes to 4 different WRs and 21 of his 24 completions were to two guys.
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Can't see rating Knight ahead of Jake. He was a big part of their loss yesterday -- 14 for 35 and 2 INTs. He's had one big game against an overrated SEC defense that didn't know what to do against a 21st century offense.
oh yeah, what has waters done?
Completes more than 40% of his passes :driving:
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If we don't have rough ridin' Tom Brady back there slinging the rock complemented by the 1985 Bear's defense, then our team is complete dog crap according to these losers. There's no point in arguing with them because they are dumb as eff.
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Jake should have had at least 4 more intended incompletions. That kind of worries me.
Gonna win 'em all!
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Hey, here's an idea. Quit hating on a top 25 team. :comehere:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
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Waters is averaging about 380 yards (260/120) of total offense per game in conference games. :love:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
-
I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
Well that's not true, and I'm disappointed that such a terrible poster took such a great screen name
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Mbc hated Klein and Sams, that's all you need to know
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MBC, do you like me?
?yes
?no
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Mbc hated Klein and Sams, that's all you need to know
Loved both.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Pot, meet kettle. :facepalm:
Edit: add this non-significant poster to the "bottom 70" that views Kim as one of, if not the worst poster on this board.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Pot, meet kettle. :facepalm:
Edit: add this non-significant poster to the "bottom 70" that views Kim as one of, if not the worst poster on this board.
Correct, you are non-significant, and bottom 70%
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Didn't realize 8mp considered himself a top 30% poster. Interesting
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Pot, meet kettle. :facepalm:
Edit: add this non-significant poster to the "bottom 70" that views Kim as one of, if not the worst poster on this board.
Correct, you are non-significant, and bottom 70%
What's funny about this is that there are about ten to fifteen posters on this board who are really good and then about fifty others who think they are but really aren't. I know I'm no Steve Dave or Kat Kid but at least I don't delude myself into thinking I am... I'm done now. I'm feeling good about the 'Cats and I'm not going to let you depressing dorks bring me down.
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Didn't realize 8mp considered himself a top 30% poster. Interesting
i can confirm that he is
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The best rushing qb in the big 12 you say....that is interesting.
They announced it last night.
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I evaluate waters on what he does and has done. If he goes to f'ing norman and throws for 150 w/ no picks and runs for 79 (4.6ypc), and because of his effective running/throwing allows our RB's to run for 100+yds and we walk away with a win, then i'll shut the eff up about jake rough ridin' waters. Because last year, jake threw for 348yds (2 picks) against OU but we could only run for 24 net yards.
CHRIST OH MIGHTY, I'm watching this game!!! Could be really enjoyable! :dance:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
Since you're struggling on what that way is, I'll let you know. We're superior to you idiots who don't get kc because of higher intellect, greater senses of humor, and rational sensibilities. Understand now?
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Pot, meet kettle. :facepalm:
Edit: add this non-significant poster to the "bottom 70" that views Kim as one of, if not the worst poster on this board.
Correct, you are non-significant, and bottom 70%
What's funny about this is that there are about ten to fifteen posters on this board who are really good and then about fifty others who think they are but really aren't. I know I'm no Steve Dave or Katdaddy, but at least I don't delude myself into thinking I am... I'm done now. I'm feeling good about the 'Cats and I'm not going to let you depressing dorks bring me down.
FYP :blush:
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Waters is fine people.
Get over it.
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Waters is fine people.
Get over it.
:thumbs:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
Since you're struggling on what that way is, I'll let you know. We're superior to you idiots who don't get kc because of higher intellect, greater senses of humor, and rational sensibilities. Understand now?
Trust me, you aren't. We all get exactly what he does. It's not clever or funny and it was played out a long time ago...on a sidenote you should probably see a therapist because the way you're always trying to tell everyone how much smarter you are than the rest of us makes you seem very insecure.
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Hey guys, more like BITCHBerryCrunch, amirite? :lol:
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Seriously though, mix berry crunch, man
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Waters is awesome :billdance:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
Since you're struggling on what that way is, I'll let you know. We're superior to you idiots who don't get kc because of higher intellect, greater senses of humor, and rational sensibilities. Understand now?
Trust me, you aren't. We all get exactly what he does. It's not clever or funny and it was played out a long time ago...on a sidenote you should probably see a therapist because the way you're always trying to tell everyone how much smarter you are than the rest of us makes you seem very insecure.
Not everyone just the morons, if my drawing a line between myself and morons bothers you, which it clearly does, consider yourself one of the morons.
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BREAKING NEWS:: Kim Carnes is still a douche
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MIR too :excited:
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u ok bucket?
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u ok bucket?
:lynchmob:
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Like I give a damn what some unconfident loser thinks about my posting on message board.
he doesn't care if you care, he's just saying that you're awful.
And ninety percent of this board thinks you're both awful.
ok. not really though.
At least 30% regard Kim as at to 10% poster he is. The other 70% are the bottom 70%.
The only people who like his posts are the insecure losers who get off on going against the majority because they think it makes them superior to the rest of us in some way.
Since you're struggling on what that way is, I'll let you know. We're superior to you idiots who don't get kc because of higher intellect, greater senses of humor, and rational sensibilities. Understand now?
Trust me, you aren't. We all get exactly what he does. It's not clever or funny and it was played out a long time ago...on a sidenote you should probably see a therapist because the way you're always trying to tell everyone how much smarter you are than the rest of us makes you seem very insecure.
Not everyone just the morons, if my drawing a line between myself and morons bothers you, which it clearly does, consider yourself one of the morons.
I'm secure enough in my intelligence that I don't need validation from posters on a football message board. You clearly do though....but to the original point, Waters is good, the team is good and Carnes is awful.
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Carnes > Waters
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Haven't read last few pages. He gets sacked too much.
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Haven't read last few pages. He gets sacked too much.
Klein wrecked you mentally. He spoiled the entire KSU nation....Just beyond spoiled.
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Haven't read last few pages. He gets sacked too much.
Klein wrecked you mentally. He spoiled the entire KSU nation....Just beyond spoiled.
I will admit that even in Saturday's ass kicking I didn't think we executed that well on offense, for the most part (by and large).
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I like Waters much more than I did a few months ago.
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Carnes > Waters
Runs like crap, tho
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Jake Water is the definition of average. Makes dumb plays or looks bad while throwing, then makes a nice run or throws a great pass. King of inconsistency. That was the worst 24/31 performance I've seen. His stats looked great, but watching him play it felt like he was closer to 50% completions.
It's whatever. I've accepted that he's just going to play average all year. I just hope the rest of the team does enough that his average play results in 24/31 nights and not 17/31.
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Haven't read last few pages. He gets sacked too much.
This is what I basically said, but the infighting is ruling this thread.
Gonna win 'em all!
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Jake Water is the definition of average. Makes dumb plays or looks bad while throwing, then makes a nice run or throws a great pass. King of inconsistency. That was the worst 24/31 performance I've seen. His stats looked great, but watching him play it felt like he was closer to 50% completions.
It's whatever. I've accepted that he's just going to play average all year. I just hope the rest of the team does enough that his average play results in 24/31 nights and not 17/31.
Jfc.
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i'll withhold judging Waters until after next Saturday's game. We've only played 1 team this year, and Water's was pretty average against an average defense at home. The 4 other teams we've played are absolute hot garbage.
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Haven't read last few pages. He gets sacked too much.
Klein wrecked you mentally. He spoiled the entire KSU nation....Just beyond spoiled.
...and Bishop, Beasley, and Ell. I mean, good qb's, they should be the exception.
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Jake Waters
Likes:
understands and can execute back shoulder throw to Lockett even when he is well covered
seems like he makes a lot of reads/checks, our playcalling has been good so far this year imo
has underrated ability to read/hit hole and decent speed
is able to throw a good deep ball
is able to make throws/reads to keep sticks moving
Dislikes:
does not throw the ball away/takes a lot of sacks/does not step up in pocket to deliver balls/does not evade with the purpose of making a throw well when there is pressure
not good throwing on the run
accuracy issues in general
speed option reads are painful to watch
RZ execution is bad (offense as a whole)
He is not bad. Waters possesses a key weakness that is terrifying -- he does not handle pressure well. Because of this, teams will continue to dial up blitzes the rest of the year in the hopes they can force the TO. The OU/TCU/UT/Baylor stretch will define Waters' career for better or worse.
As far as Waters' place in the Big 12 QB rankings. I think there are 4 tiers and Jake is Tier 2.
Gunslinger Elites- Fast paced, offenses designed to put up huge points, talented receivers to support them, can make all the throws
Petty
Trickett
Solid Gamers- make most of the throws, can win a game for you with arm or feet, Surrounding cast is solid, Defense/ST support
Boykin
Knight
Waters
Any Given Saturday- can put up a monster day and beat you deep if your defense is off its game, high TD/high INT #'s, wannabe elites
Webb
Garman
Bad- these guys are bad at football and will cost their teams many more games than they will win
Swoopes
Richardson
KU QB carousel
Petty completed 7 out of 22 attempts vs UT, good for an 8.2 QBR
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Would need someone to confirm, but i would guess Waters averages more YPP and PPP than Klein. FWIW
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Would need someone to confirm, but i would guess Waters averages more YPP and PPP than Klein. FWIW
You're pretty much correct. (not sure how team YPP or PPP works out.)
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/jake-waters-1.html
http://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/players/collin-klein-1.html
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
Klein really lucked into those TD's tho. He really needed our receivers to bail him out for his awful throws. Phew!
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
Klein really lucked into those TD's tho. He really needed our receivers to bail him out for his awful throws. Phew!
Klein has more rushing TD's than Waters has total TD's. Like, 13 more.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
Klein really lucked into those TD's tho. He really needed our receivers to bail him out for his awful throws. Phew!
Klein has more rushing TD's than Waters has total TD's. Like, 13 more.
Thank god his line bailed him out and carried him into the endzone. I mean, he was just awful and incompetent when others weren't bailing him out. :Ugh:
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Fanning doesn't handle criticism of college kids very well. Very weird/creepy.
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Fanning doesn't handle criticism of college kids very well. Very weird/creepy.
:facepalm: That's what you take from this? I don't handle dumbassery very well from dumbasses. I mean, there's a lot of ppl on this board, butthurt over Jake Waters cause he beat out their boy. Move the eff on and get behind the quarterback. Zacker's gonna zacker and fanning's going to fanning tho.
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Fanning doesn't handle criticism of college kids very well. Very weird/creepy.
It is really not even criticism. It's the idea that if you prefer or believe player A is better than player B that doesn't mean you are saying player B is crap. And the ide that at the end of any comment about waters there is this ghost "and sams is better".
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Also, how is it creepy when you stick up for a player you like? I mean, how did ok cat get there? :lol:
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the "receivers bailing out waters" meme is incredibly creative, i'll give you that #creative #synergy
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I'm still fueled up with adrenaline from this week. Maybe I do get a little protective over waters, but I just don't know how you come away from Saturday's game and be like "I'm going to bump the Waters thread, cause he sucks". :lol:
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
While I don't disagree with the overall comment, Waters' TD numbers would look way better right now if we weren't handing the ball to Jones in the Wildcat almost every time we get inside the five.
That's where Klein cleaned up.
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no crap klein killed it within the 5 and waters goes to jones wtf
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no crap klein killed it within the 5 and waters goes to jones wtf
Lol
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If the coaching staff though Waters and our WR corps would be more efficient in the red zone then they wouldn't run the wildcat so much. Maybe his pedestrian throwing helped his rushing numbers. Klein still made all those plays, though.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
While I don't disagree with the overall comment, Waters' TD numbers would look way better right now if we weren't handing the ball to Jones in the Wildcat almost every time we get inside the five.
That's where Klein cleaned up.
To put what you said another way, if Will Spradling only had Lebron's ability, KSU basketball would have been better.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
While I don't disagree with the overall comment, Waters' TD numbers would look way better right now if we weren't handing the ball to Jones in the Wildcat almost every time we get inside the five.
That's where Klein cleaned up.
To put what you said another way, if Will Spradling only had Lebron's ability, KSU basketball would have been better.
Exactly.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
While I don't disagree with the overall comment, Waters' TD numbers would look way better right now if we weren't handing the ball to Jones in the Wildcat almost every time we get inside the five.
That's where Klein cleaned up.
Pretty sure Jake Beasley has more TDs inside the five than Jones.
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You guys act as though good time charlie hasn't been good out of the wildcat :dunno:
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You guys act as though good time charlie hasn't been good out of the wildcat :dunno:
the amount of wildcat we run in the redzone shows the limitations of this roster. I know Bill 2.0 has done it some every season (although I can't think of any RZ snaps with CK) but I take it as a lack of confidence in Waters.
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You guys act as though good time charlie hasn't been good out of the wildcat :dunno:
the amount of wildcat we run in the redzone shows the limitations of this roster. I know Bill 2.0 has done it some every season (although I can't think of any RZ snaps with CK) but I take it as a lack of confidence in Waters.
a) It has worked at a high rate of success.
b) We learned vs ISU that running your smaller QB at the goal line could be a dangerous idea. I don't think its a lack of confidence, its realizing we have a smaller QB that we don't want beat up by big hits.
This "limitation of the roster" rationale might have some merit, but if we bring the wildcat with Jones inside the 10 and it scores why would we complain about this?
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You guys act as though good time charlie hasn't been good out of the wildcat :dunno:
the amount of wildcat we run in the redzone shows the limitations of this roster. I know Bill 2.0 has done it some every season (although I can't think of any RZ snaps with CK) but I take it as a lack of confidence in Waters.
a) It has worked at a high rate of success.
b) We learned vs ISU that running your smaller QB at the goal line could be a dangerous idea. I don't think its a lack of confidence, its realizing we have a smaller QB that we don't want beat up by big hits.
This "limitation of the roster" rationale might have some merit, but if we bring the wildcat with Jones inside the 10 and it scores why would we complain about this?
Because Sams plays for Mcneese State :dunno:
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Sams was just as fragile tho.
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If we don't have rough ridin' Tom Brady back there slinging the rock complemented by the 1985 Bear's defense, then our team is complete dog crap according to these losers. There's no point in arguing with them because they are dumb as eff.
Yes.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
No.
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I don't think I've ever noticed how shitty MBC is. Good grief.
Hey, here's an idea. Quit hating on a top 25 team. :comehere:
Bravo.
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Do what you want.
I like this team tho. :ksu:
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Do what you want.
I like this team tho. :ksu:
Stud.
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If you want to be at a site where talking bad about your team is outlawed, then you need to head over to gopowercat.com, idiot.
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You can talk all the crap you want, just bring some rough ridin' zeal with it. Don't just throw out "he sucks", "you're creepy for liking him", etc. and not have any actual facts to why he sucks. Otherwise, you just sounds like a kim carnes mouthpiece.
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he seems to underthrow balls a lot. he takes a lot of sacks.
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If you want to be at a site where talking bad about your team is outlawed, then you need to head over to gopowercat.com, idiot.
gE is great. Hate the haters. Love the lovers. Great we're taters. Love like brothers.
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Kinda nice to not destroy the qb's shoulder by using a rb near the goal line! :popcorn:
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Canary gets it. Every cat fan here is a best friend blood brother forever to all other cat fans.
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All Jake needs is 42 more TD's this year and 3 more Int's to match CK's JR and SR yr production. And then also lead his team to a big 12 title.
While I don't disagree with the overall comment, Waters' TD numbers would look way better right now if we weren't handing the ball to Jones in the Wildcat almost every time we get inside the five.
That's where Klein cleaned up.
To put what you said another way, if Will Spradling only had Lebron's ability, KSU basketball would have been better.
I'm not speaking to ability, I was just commenting on the differences in TD's.
I'm all for letting Jones do his thing inside the 5. But Klien's gaudy TD numbers had a lot to do with the fact that if we were inside the five, Klien was dozing his way in there. You can't do that with Jake, but we've got a different solution, so either way, it's fine. We're still scoring TD's.
We're currently 7th in the nation in Red Zone attempts, 4th in pure Red Zone scoring, and 13th in TD conversion%. Had Lockett not popped up the INT and Cantele missed the 22 yarder against Auburn, we'd be 28/29 in the red zone, which would have put us at 6th place in the nation in red zone scoring percentage.
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I'm not speaking to ability, I was just commenting on the differences in TD's.
I'm all for letting Jones do his thing inside the 5. But Klien's gaudy TD numbers had a lot to do with the fact that if we were inside the five, Klien was dozing his way in there. You can't do that with Jake, but we've got a different solution, so either way, it's fine. We're still scoring TD's.
We're currently 7th in the nation in Red Zone attempts, 4th in pure Red Zone scoring, and 13th in TD conversion%. Had Lockett not popped up the INT and Cantele missed the 22 yarder against Auburn, we'd be 28/29 in the red zone, which would have put us at 6th place in the nation in red zone scoring percentage.
Great post. Besides the fluke against Auburn, in the redzone this team has been excellent at scoring when the opportunity comes. Plus we're top 20 in points per play, points per drive, and yards per point; all quality efficiency numbers.
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If you want to be at a site where talking bad about your team is outlawed, then you need to head over to gopowercat.com, idiot.
gE is great. Hate the haters. Love the lovers. Great we're taters. Love like brothers.
:cheers:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fdavidcedillo.com%2Fwordpress%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F12%2Fdrkatz.gif&hash=87ac1a82116494ba0c5a3bddad34cdddc3f59414)
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
I have no idea.
The top 20 numbers for efficiency I posted only include our FBS games as well, so Stephen F Austin is not included.
The yards per play numbers aren't as good this year (like #33 or something at 6.1 YPP) and we're not quite as explosive, but as long as the efficiency numbers stay solid we're going to win games.
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Your hate for Waters and love for Sams has been well known for quite sometime. It's very possible that you can't get out of your own way. Which there's nothing wrong with that, but I think that's the case right here.
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
I have no idea.
The top 20 numbers for efficiency I posted only include our FBS games as well, so Stephen F Austin is not included.
The yards per play numbers aren't as good this year (like #33 or something at 6.1 YPP) and we're not quite as explosive, but as long as the efficiency numbers stay solid we're going to win games.
That's the primary problem. We don't seem to have the home run ability that we showed at times last year.
On the flip side, we're 8th in the nation in 3rd down conversion %. We're currently at 50.77% on third down conversions. That's #1 in the Big 12. For comparison, OU is 8th in the league right now in 3rd down conversion % at just over 41%.
If you look at the number of long plays from scrimmage, we're 50th in plays of 10 yards or more and firmly in the 60-90 camp for anything over 20+ yards.
Also, in the last few games, we haven't had to march down the field as much because of how much we're forcing other teams to punt and how good Lockett has been at returning them. Considering that we're #2 in the nation in punt return average (24.7 per return), if it's getting kicked to us, we're going to have good field position, and we're going to sustain drives until we get into the red zone and convert.
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
I have no idea.
The top 20 numbers for efficiency I posted only include our FBS games as well, so Stephen F Austin is not included.
The yards per play numbers aren't as good this year (like #33 or something at 6.1 YPP) and we're not quite as explosive, but as long as the efficiency numbers stay solid we're going to win games.
As a fan of your fan analysis, are you considering doing them this year? Did you notice the play at 13:50 in the 3rd qtr against Tech? It got blown up, but seemed like a new formation that I don't recall seeing. Later in the game, they ran a similar formation, minus the motion. Is that new to others as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtA6qyRemM4#t=81m40s
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
I have no idea.
The top 20 numbers for efficiency I posted only include our FBS games as well, so Stephen F Austin is not included.
The yards per play numbers aren't as good this year (like #33 or something at 6.1 YPP) and we're not quite as explosive, but as long as the efficiency numbers stay solid we're going to win games.
As a fan of your fan analysis, are you considering doing them this year? Did you notice the play at 13:50 in the 3rd qtr against Tech? It got blown up, but seemed like a new formation that I don't recall seeing. Later in the game, they ran a similar formation, minus the motion. Is that new to others as well?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtA6qyRemM4#t=81m40s
I'm going to try. I'll be honest, I have been taking time I usually take for analysis in the past to watch the Royals.
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Honestly it's probably because of the Iowa State + Auburn games. We saw the offense just disappear and our run game evaporate. And even now, nothing "looks" easy. Waters looks like he has to run for his life a lot and then completions are challenged or require a great catch. It rightly or wrongly colors how the offense is perceived.
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The comfort blanket of an effective QB draw is just not there (yet?).
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Is it possible that we haven't seen as many home run plays because of Lockett's hammy? He doesn't seem to be getting as open as he did last year, which could be why Waters is holding the ball longer. And he really is our only deep play threat. Maybe as his he heals our offense will start to open up more.
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The comfort blanket of an effective QB draw is just not there (yet?).
Yeah. If we had a "money play" to convert short yardage situations, I would feel a whole lot better about our offense.
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In the past, what percent of the QB rushing yards were designed QB running plays vs this year?
When it's a scramble, it feels like a busted play that turned out ok. Designed runs that turn out good look awesome from the beginning.
Gonna win 'em all!
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Another play that has been largely taken off the table post-Auburn (and I suspect it will stay that way) is the fake QB draw seam pass. It was foiled by Tech on what should've been an INT and I think teams are keying that much better now and are game planning for it. That provided a lot of 20+ yard plays in the past to TE and FB.
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In the past, what percent of the QB rushing yards were designed QB running plays vs this year?
When it's a scramble, it feels like a busted play that turned out ok. Designed runs that turn out good look awesome from the beginning.
Gonna win 'em all!
Waters had one designed run that looked just fantastic against Texas Tech.
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Honestly it's probably because of the Iowa State + Auburn games. We saw the offense just disappear and our run game evaporate. And even now, nothing "looks" easy. Waters looks like he has to run for his life a lot and then completions are challenged or require a great catch. It rightly or wrongly colors how the offense is perceived.
Against ISU we had a bad stretch of not finishing drives that started with the FGs early in the game, but we moved the ball at a nice clip.
Here are some of our notable numbers against FBS teams:
Points per play:
UTEP 1.036
Tech 0.556
ISU 0.457
Aub 0.200
Points per drive:
UTEP 4.46
Tech 4.09
ISU 2.67
Aub 1.27
Yards per play:
UTEP 8.05
ISU 6.73
Tech 6.60
Aub 4.07
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In the past, what percent of the QB rushing yards were designed QB running plays vs this year?
When it's a scramble, it feels like a busted play that turned out ok. Designed runs that turn out good look awesome from the beginning.
Gonna win 'em all!
Waters had one designed run that looked just fantastic against Texas Tech.
That seems about right. (I think you are agreeing with the point?)
Gonna win 'em all!
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_FAN can you take a look at this 2nd & 25 play just before half? When I was watching it live I had the impression that it was a called run, but it looked like a screen pass/QB draw with Waters being led by 3 linemen. After thinking about it later it occurred to me how hard that would be to accomplish. It appears the playside DE did us a favor and went inside. I think Jones was there to help if the DE went outside. Anyway, it is a very nifty play design that got us a big gain against an aggressive pass rush.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtA6qyRemM4#t=81m40s
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In the past, what percent of the QB rushing yards were designed QB running plays vs this year?
When it's a scramble, it feels like a busted play that turned out ok. Designed runs that turn out good look awesome from the beginning.
Gonna win 'em all!
Waters had one designed run that looked just fantastic against Texas Tech.
That seems about right. (I think you are agreeing with the point?)
Gonna win 'em all!
I think I was. Waters seems like he needs more space than a typical designed QB run allows, but he does have nice speed and occasionally pulls the designed plays off nicely. I appreciate that he is able to extend pass plays with his legs, though. It's a nice ability to have, especially given his tendency to hold onto the ball way too long in the pocket.
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_FAN can you take a look at this 2nd & 25 play just before half? When I was watching it live I had the impression that it was a called run, but it looked like a screen pass/QB draw with Waters being led by 3 linemen. After thinking about it later it occurred to me how hard that would be to accomplish. It appears the playside DE did us a favor and went inside. I think Jones was there to help if the DE went outside. Anyway, it is a very nifty play design that got us a big gain against an aggressive pass rush.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VtA6qyRemM4#t=81m40s
It looks like a designed run to me and yes the oline essentially use screen pass blocking principles to set it up. It looks to me like they thought they could influence #10 to rush inside, which opens up the play. Our RT widens as he starts his pass drop and #10 took the bait. We were counting on Tech's undisciplined play from their front and they played right into our hands. It wasn't pretty, but Jones cut block slowed the Tech LB enough for Jake to get out.
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I wish we would do some screens with Judah.
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I wish we would do some screens with Judah.
He would forget his route and just go deep.It's why he's not more in the mix
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Kinda nice to not destroy the qb's shoulder by using a rb near the goal line! :popcorn:
:thumbs:
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Canary gets it. Every cat fan here is a best friend blood brother forever to all other cat fans.
But we do like a little "Bread" with our blood sandwich. :cheers:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
I have no idea.
The top 20 numbers for efficiency I posted only include our FBS games as well, so Stephen F Austin is not included.
The yards per play numbers aren't as good this year (like #33 or something at 6.1 YPP) and we're not quite as explosive, but as long as the efficiency numbers stay solid we're going to win games.
That's the primary problem. We don't seem to have the home run ability that we showed at times last year.
On the flip side, we're 8th in the nation in 3rd down conversion %. We're currently at 50.77% on third down conversions. That's #1 in the Big 12. For comparison, OU is 8th in the league right now in 3rd down conversion % at just over 41%.
If you look at the number of long plays from scrimmage, we're 50th in plays of 10 yards or more and firmly in the 60-90 camp for anything over 20+ yards.
Also, in the last few games, we haven't had to march down the field as much because of how much we're forcing other teams to punt and how good Lockett has been at returning them. , and we're going to sustain drives until we get into the red zone and convert.Considering that we're #2 in the nation in punt return average (24.7 per return), if it's getting kicked to us, we're going to have good field position
Personally, I blame Sean for this travesty. :whistle1:
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What if our next QB has the last name "Milks"
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What if our next QB has the last name "Milks"
Signs and t-shirts would be amazing
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Or like if Texas had a QB named milks.
Tonight on ABC! We finally settle the argument of Waters vs. Milks!
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Or like if Texas had a QB named milks.
Tonight on ABC! We finally settle the argument of Waters vs. Milks!
:dunno: :excited:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
Yeah, other than Jones in the wildcat near the goal-line. They are very average. :frown:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
Yeah, other than Jones in the wildcat near the goal-line. They are very average. :frown:
I would honestly consider them below average. I thought Hubert was average and I've been missing him a lot this season. Maybe the line is mostly to blame but outside of DRobs 1 run against UTEP I haven't really seen them do anything special.
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Or like if Texas had a QB named milks.
Tonight on ABC! We finally settle the argument of Waters vs. Milks!
The headline after the game would be "K-State Milks Bevo".
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
Yeah, other than Jones in the wildcat near the goal-line. They are very average. :frown:
I would honestly consider them below average. I thought Hubert was average and I've been missing him a lot this season. Maybe the line is mostly to blame but outside of DRobs 1 run against UTEP I haven't really seen them do anything special.
demarcus is just not good at football
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
Yeah, other than Jones in the wildcat near the goal-line. They are very average. :frown:
I would honestly consider them below average. I thought Hubert was average and I've been missing him a lot this season. Maybe the line is mostly to blame but outside of DRobs 1 run against UTEP I haven't really seen them do anything special.
demarcus is just not good at football
I'm continually hoping that Jones takes at least 5-6 more carries a game from Robinson as we move into conference play.
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I think Jones is a solid back so far. He's at >5 YPC for the season and only has one game where he averaged below 5 YPC. The last few games he's carried it around 12 times per game, I'd like to see that around 15-16. He's a solid back.
Robinson had a great carry against UTEP, but he has 3 games at <4 YPC and only one game over 5 YPC.
Jones isn't going to run away from people, but he's got solid burst and consistently gets vertical. The Auburn game was the only game where he tried to bounce runs and he paid for it, but I think he's learned he's got to be a north-south runner. He's built a lot different, but I have no doubt he can be a Hickson/Lawrence level back.
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_FAN did you happen to watch the Oregon/Az game last week? It seemed like they took that FB/TE seam pass and added another wrinkle. IIRC they basically ran that same play just executed it running the option instead of a draw. Looked extremely difficult to defend.
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
I also do not get a warm fuzzy when watching our offense. To me, it is the lack of open receivers downfield that is problematic. We have not stretched the field. Thus, we eek out first downs without big plays. Thus far, we have done that very efficiently. But perhaps we all sense that better defenses will, like Auburn, stack the box and that our lack of athleticism at WR (besides Lockett) will stall our offense.
Really wish J.Jones would develop. He is very fast.
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In Waters defense, our receivers are worthless. Nothing against Curry, but he's no Harp and there's no TTT to bail us out. It's really amazing we win any games considering the crap our staff recruits and throws out onto the field
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Stop being a complete dumbass. Thanks.
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I think that is some very accurate analysis right there. Not sure what was "dumbass" about it I guess...explains the walk-on program here though...
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I think that is some very accurate analysis right there. Not sure what was "dumbass" about it I guess...explains the walk-on program here though...
:lol:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
Yeah, other than Jones in the wildcat near the goal-line. They are very average. :frown:
I would honestly consider them below average. I thought Hubert was average and I've been missing him a lot this season. Maybe the line is mostly to blame but outside of DRobs 1 run against UTEP I haven't really seen them do anything special.
demarcus is just not good at football
:bawl: :dubious:
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Serious question _fan, why does this offense "feel" bad? The stats show that it's pretty decent, but nearly every drive leaves a bad taste in my mouth. There is something unfulfilling. It's possible that it's just I don't like waters, but I don't think that's it. All of Kleins 15 minute drives were more exciting to me.
Dunno
Maybe it's the lack of flash that Waters provides. He looks weak when he runs despite the fact he's been doing it somewhat respectable.
I think we should bitch about our average tailbacks more than Waters. None of them can seem to make something happen on their own. I see no good cuts out of our backs
I also do not get a warm fuzzy when watching our offense. To me, it is the lack of open receivers downfield that is problematic. We have not stretched the field. Thus, we eek out first downs without big plays. Thus far, we have done that very efficiently. But perhaps we all sense that better defenses will, like Auburn, stack the box and that our lack of athleticism at WR (besides Lockett & Sexy Curry) will stall our offense.
Really wish J.Jones would develop. He is very fast.
Were you asleep during the last couple of games. :dubious: By the way, I FYP. You're welcome. :blush:
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Sexton had a big td pass last week, but it wasn't becsuse he just ran past his guy. He was dragging across the middle, Waters bought time in pocket, and then Currie found a seem in the now-broken down defense. We later tried to go deep with Sexton twice on first down, and he wasn't even in close to having beat his man. Sexton is a nice 3rd/4th teceiver, but we need someone else who can stretch the defense.
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Sexton had a big td pass last week, but it wasn't becsuse he just ran past his guy. He was dragging across the middle, Waters bought time in pocket, and then Currie found a seem in the now-broken down defense. We later tried to go deep with Sexton twice on first down, and he wasn't even in close to having beat his man. Sexton is a nice 3rd/4th teceiver, but we need someone else who can stretch the defense.
could you explain the seam he found? Looked like he reached over the defender that was border-line raping him and hauled it in with one hand/arm.
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Sexton had a big td pass last week, but it wasn't becsuse he just ran past his guy. He was dragging across the middle, Waters bought time in pocket, and then Currie found a seem in the now-broken down defense. We later tried to go deep with Sexton twice on first down, and he wasn't even in close to having beat his man. Sexton is a nice 3rd/4th teceiver, but we need someone else who can stretch the defense.
could you explain the seam he found? Looked like he reached over the defender that was border-line raping him and hauled it in with one hand/arm.
I think steff is talking about Sextons first td grab
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Sexton had a big td pass last week, but it wasn't becsuse he just ran past his guy. He was dragging across the middle, Waters bought time in pocket, and then Currie found a seem in the now-broken down defense. We later tried to go deep with Sexton twice on first down, and he wasn't even in close to having beat his man. Sexton is a nice 3rd/4th teceiver, but we need someone else who can stretch the defense.
could you explain the seam he found? Looked like he reached over the defender that was border-line raping him and hauled it in with one hand/arm.
I think steff is talking about Sextons first td grab
I figured when he said "big" td, they were referring to the "big" td Curry had ie. making the Top 10 on Sportscenter.
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Sexton had a big td pass last week, but it wasn't becsuse he just ran past his guy. He was dragging across the middle, Waters bought time in pocket, and then Currie found a seem in the now-broken down defense. We later tried to go deep with Sexton twice on first down, and he wasn't even in close to having beat his man. Sexton is a nice 3rd/4th teceiver, but we need someone else who can stretch the defense.
could you explain the seam he found? Looked like he reached over the defender that was border-line raping him and hauled it in with one hand/arm.
I think steff is talking about Sextons first td grab
Yes.....I'm talking about the athletic ability to beat a defender deep.....not make circus catches while tightly covered. That is what I meant by "big"