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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on August 26, 2013, 02:22:45 PM
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From the most disgustingly political DOJ in the history of the United States comes this latest little gem, and it's not just political - it's just rough ridin' stupid.
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/25/justice-department-tries-to-block-louisiana-school-voucher-program/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29 (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/08/25/justice-department-tries-to-block-louisiana-school-voucher-program/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+foxnews%2Fpolitics+%28Internal+-+Politics+-+Text%29)
The Justice Department is trying to stop a school vouchers program in Louisiana that attempts to help families send their children to independent schools instead of under-performing public schools.
The agency wants to stop the program, led by Republican Gov. Bobby Jindal, in any school district that remains under a desegregation court order.
In papers filed in U.S. District Court in New Orleans, the agency said Louisiana distributed vouchers in 2012-13 to roughly 570 public school students in districts that are still under such orders and that "many of those vouchers impeded the desegregation process."
The federal government argues that allowing students to attend independent schools under the voucher system could create a racial imbalance in public school systems protected by desegregation orders.
Any resident libtards want to take a stab at defending this bullshit?
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any resident neocons want to post any additional fox news links on this topic?
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I'm not a libtard but, what is stopping the parents from sending their children to the independent schools now?
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What if you don't like the idea of vouchers in the first place?
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I'm not a libtard but, what is stopping the parents from sending their children to the independent schools now?
cost
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I don't think we would have nearly as many shitty, underperforming public schools if private schools did not exist.
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I'm not a libtard but, what is stopping the parents from sending their children to the independent schools now?
cost
So they want a hand out to go to these schools? Those damn liberal leeches in Louisiana are going to be the death of this country.
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What if you don't like the idea of vouchers in the first place?
This. I'm not at all versed on the subject, but what is the point of school vouchers if public school is available?
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What if you don't like the idea of vouchers in the first place?
This. I'm not at all versed on the subject, but what is the point of school vouchers if public school is available?
I think it comes from white guilt, but I'm really not sure.
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Meanwhile D.C. elites including our pres continue to send their children to private schools.
I believe Jimmy Carter was the last president to send his child to public K-12 schools while in DC.
Why shouldn't they? They have the money to... Anyone with the means should be able to as long as private schools are going to be a thing.
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Meanwhile D.C. elites including our pres continue to send their children to private schools.
I believe Jimmy Carter was the last president to send his child to public K-12 schools while in DC.
I'm not 100% certain and didn't read the link but I don't think anyone is trying to outlaw private schools.
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Meanwhile D.C. elites including our pres continue to send their children to private schools.
I believe Jimmy Carter was the last president to send his child to public K-12 schools while in DC.
Um, Clinton and Obama are the only presidents to have school aged kids since Carter.
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I never would have thought Dax would be in the "give your children to the state for re-education" camp.
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I'm 93% sure DC uses a voucher system,
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Hey libtards, instead of getting all defensive and virulent, why don't you acknowledge calling a voucher system racist is idiotic and acknowdlege desegregating school is a rough ridin' stupid idea. See KCMO for example.
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Basically, take a break from being libtarded
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Link to where the doj called it racist?
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Here's a non-Fox link for the libtads.
http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2013/08/26/justice-department-attempts-to-block-louisiana-school-voucher-program
The U.S. Department of Justice is attempting to block a portion of a school voucher program in Louisiana, arguing that vouchers issued in some districts "impeded the desegregation process."
The department filed a lawsuit on Saturday seeking a permanent injunction to stop the state from awarding vouchers to students who attend schools located in districts that are still under federal desegregation orders.
The voucher program, officially called the Louisiana Scholarship Program, was created in New Orleans in 2008 and expanded to the rest of the state in 2012. It gives financial assistance to low-income families who want to transfer their students out of failing schools.
Of the 5,000 vouchers distributed last year, 91 percent went to minority students. The state is expected to issue another 8,000 vouchers for the coming school year.
The Justice Department's lawsuit claims that allowing students to leave failing schools for private schools upsets the racial balance that the desegregation laws were created to maintain.
Louisiana Gov. Bobby Jindal said in a released statement that the federal filing is "shameful" and that President Barack Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder are trying to trap students in failing public schools.
"It's the latest example of government trying to tell parents that they know best," Jindal said. "This action highlights the fundamental disregard of the federal government for the rights of parents to make choices for their children."
Jindal said the voucher program is a "moral imperative" and that parents should be able to decide where their children attend school.
If the Justice Department's lawsuit is successful, 34 school systems could be affected for the 2014-15 school year.
The voucher system has been controversial since it was expanded to the entire state and has already had several lawsuits filed against it.
In May, the Louisiana Supreme Court ruled that the state could not use funds dedicated to public education to pay for the vouchers. The court did not rule on the educational quality of the programs, however.
"Not only was the voucher program patently unconstitutional, but it placed children into schools without adequate oversight and with no assurance of quality instruction," said Louisiana Federation of Teachers President Steve Monaghan, in a released statement.
You're racist if you are against the LA voucher system.
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
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One of my favorite things about libtards is how they're programmed to immediately dismiss and discredit FoxNews. Well trained little foot soldiers. Machiavellian
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Quite the Hobson's choice, eh libtard?
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Quite the Hobson's choice, eh modtard?
FYP
And yes, I guess it is. Is Hobson the stuffed tiger or is Calvin? I can never remember.
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.
I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.
True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.
I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.
True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.
sounds like something a moderate would post
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.
I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.
True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.
sounds like something a moderate would post
:thumbs:
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I'm confused. So, I'm racist if I'm for it and I'm racist if I'm against it?
Moderates, like myself, can figure this out on their own. I highlighted the facts in the article for the libtards.
I've noticed some moderate tendencies in you, jthtd. Except you seem to have more disdain for libtards than neotards.
True moderates, like sd, dislike both sides equally.
The libtards have been more libtarded recently.
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acknowdlege desegregating school is a rough ridin' stupid idea.
:sdeek:
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acknowdlege desegregating school is a rough ridin' stupid idea.
:sdeek:
Libtard is as libtard does
- Forrest Gump
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School voucher programs help low income students escape squalid public schools. These vouchers generally don't cost any additional money: they are paid for by money earmarked for the public schools, which is a major reason why the teacher's unions hate them. That money is already allocated based on number of students, so the voucher system just takes the money allocated per student (usually less, actually), and just offers it to the student in the form of a voucher to help that student afford to attend a school without graffiti, gangs, and rough ridin' metal detectors at the entrances.
Liberals oppose school voucher systems because (1) it's what the teacher's unions want them to do, and (2) liberals are inherently opposed to choice unless it concerns social issues like abortion, gay marriage, etc. They hate the possibility that certain people would try to better their situation by seeking a different education. To your typical libtard, this just isn't fair that some kids should get a better education than others (unless it's their kids), and so it's better if all kids (except theirs) get an equally shitty education.
Simply put, if you're opposed to school vouchers, you're a rough ridin' moron. Even the head of D.C. public schools Michelle Rhee now supports them. http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/04/michelle-rhee-my-break-with-the-democrats.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/02/04/michelle-rhee-my-break-with-the-democrats.html)
But you know what's even dumber than opposing school vouchers? The Department of Liberal Politics (formerly DOJ) suing to stop a voucher program because it enhances segregation, despite the fact the vast majority of voucher recipients are minorities.
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I oppose vouchers because I don't want my tax money going toward private education. If people want private schools to accept low income kids, then maybe they could start a scholarship foundation for those schools with private donations.
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So instead of using that money to improve the "bad" school, they just ship a few lucky students out and are like "oh well" about the rest? Sounds like normal Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) logic from k-s-u-bigot.
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Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?
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So instead of using that money to improve the "bad" school, they just ship a few lucky students out and are like "oh well" about the rest? Sounds like normal Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) logic from k-s-u-bigot.
They've been using all that money to "improve" the urban public schools for years. The schools have gotten worse. I would encourage you to read the article I linked above about Michelle Rhee (from Daily Beast, a generally liberal publication). She used to drink the kool-aid, too. Now she's wised up. Educate yourself.
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Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?
I'm sure they are probably successful for the few kids who get the vouchers. They just reduce school funding for the many kids who don't get them, though.
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Is there evidence that the voucher system in Louisiana has been successful so far?
I'm sure they are probably successful for the few kids who get the vouchers. They just reduce school funding for the many kids who don't get them, though.
Are they? Is there any conclusive evidence of this or a similar program improving the overall quality of education? I mean besides an anecdote from a democrat in a generally liberal publication.
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I'm kind of curious how the kids who get the vouchers are selected, honestly. I could probably support the program if the vouchers went to kids who are about to flunk out of school. If they are going to kids who are performing well, I don't see the point at all.
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You have to "apply", and you might not get it in. 250% above the poverty line is the cutoff.
http://www.louisianabelieves.com/schools/louisiana-scholarship-program
https://www.policymic.com/articles/46349/louisiana-student-vouchers-private-schools-get-an-f-by-the-program-s-own-standard/626457
:dunno:
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You have to "apply", and you might not get it in. 250% above the poverty line is the cutoff.
http://www.louisianabelieves.com/schools/louisiana-scholarship-program
https://www.policymic.com/articles/46349/louisiana-student-vouchers-private-schools-get-an-f-by-the-program-s-own-standard/626457
:dunno:
Well, that makes it look like the program is a massive failure and that the private schools might be even worse than the public schools. :dunno:
Maybe skinny benny could chime in as he has experience with the Louisiana school system.
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These findings are particularly disappointing when considering the progress made by the Louisiana Department of Education in public schools throughout New Orleans. This year New Orleans public schoolchildren, who used to rank at the far bottom of state performance indicators, are close to closing their gap with the Louisiana average. Behind by just 6 points (an improvement from 26 points in 2000), many education reformers predict these students will soon outperform the state. Since the largest proportion of voucher students come from New Orleans, it is hard to argue these children are better off in private schools.
Although this makes it look like maybe the voucher system is working. Getting the worst kids out of the public school system and into private schools appears to be improving the public schools in New Orleans.
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
Public school is available to everyone and private school is not. Plus, the public actually has some say in how the money is budgeted and spent at public schools.
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.
The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me. :dunno:
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.
The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me. :dunno:
It said New Orleans public school students improved relative to the rest of the state, not that that students overall improved. Also, it's not exactly what I'd call "hard data".
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Hey bonercat. How are they supposed to collect "hard data" if the program is blocked by the doj?
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Why do libtards care if the money the state allocates to a student is used at a public school or a private school? Oh yeah, its because libtards hate civil liberties and are a police state fascist Nazis. It also helps accomplish there goal of keeping everyone stupid and government dependent, and consequently poor and a consistent (D) voter (provided they can track them down and have them signed the precompleted voter registration card and absentee ballot "rocking the vote").
I'd be all for it if someone could share hard data that showed vouchers improved the overall quality of education where they've been implemented.
The article you posted says that public schools in New Orleans have improved greatly since vouchers have removed their worst students. That seems like a decent argument for vouchers to me. :dunno:
It said New Orleans public school students improved relative to the rest of the state, not that that students overall improved. Also, it's not exactly what I'd call "hard data".
True, but we aren't really going to get hard data unless voucher programs become more prevalent. Even then, not all states would use the same standards in selecting their recipients. Most people are going to stick to their own preconceived notions until they actually see some good data to change their mind, and even then, most people aren't smart enough to change their mind in the face of overwhelming evidence.
Personally, my preconceived notion is that public schools attract the best teachers, but cannot get rid of the bad ones, so experiences can vary greatly. I think that private school is a good alternative if you live in an area surrounded by poor people who do not value education because their kids will usually be awful and very distracting to your kid. Still, the parents have by far the most influence in determining the success of their children in school regardless of where they send them. A program that gives vouchers to the worst performing kids in a school, in my mind, will greatly reduce the amount of time teachers in the school have to worry about discipline, so they can focus on their job, while students are less distracted. I don't really think the vouchers are going to make those kids successful, but just getting them out of the public school environment at least gives them a change of scenery and surrounds them with kids who actually care about school.
I don't support a voucher program that just gives scholarships to poor kids who are doing well in public schools, though. What is the point if they are already doing well?
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Still, the parents have by far the most influence in determining the success of their children in school regardless of where they send them.
I disagree with this. (unless you have data showing otherwise, heh). I mean, it's great to be altruistic and all, but when push comes to shove, parents with the means to send their kids to a non-failing school will approximately 100% of the time.
A program that gives vouchers to the worst performing kids in a school, in my mind, will greatly reduce the amount of time teachers in the school have to worry about discipline, so they can focus on their job, while students are less distracted. I don't really think the vouchers are going to make those kids successful, but just getting them out of the public school environment at least gives them a change of scenery and surrounds them with kids who actually care about school.
I don't think the Louisiana program just gives vouchers to the worst students, though. Does anyone do that?
Here's more data from DC, where vouchers have been in effect since 2004:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/wp/2012/11/18/d-c-vouchers-what-you-need-to-know/
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Also, I don't understand the notion that parents don't have "choice" without vouchers. Are there laws anywhere preventing anyone from attending a private school?
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Also, I don't understand the notion that parents don't have "choice" without vouchers. Are there laws anywhere preventing anyone from attending a private school?
What an elitist POV.
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I don't understand the big deal, gays cans already get married. . .to people of the opposite sex. -bonercat
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Does the voucher system work for college too? I'd like to get my kids vouchers to Harvard.
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I don't understand the big deal, gays cans already get married. . .to people of the opposite sex. -bonercat
fantastic analogy. :billdance:
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i don't like having to pay for michigancat's (excess) children to go to public schools, i'll be damned if i'm going to pay for them to attend private school as well.
:curse:
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is this like obamacare for education?
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All children should go to the university of the united states of america.
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In other news, trial is underway concerning the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal. http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/ (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/)
Looks like the national media is ignoring this.
Here's a good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal)
Or, if you prefer left-wing sources only: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating)
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In other news, trial is underway concerning the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal. http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/ (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/)
Looks like the national media is ignoring this.
Here's a good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal)
Or, if you prefer left-wing sources only: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating)
What crime are these people being charged with?
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is this like obamacare for education?
Kind of, but if you're a democrat you have to be against it because its not your idea
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is this like obamacare for education?
Kind of, but if you're a democrat you have to be against it because its not your idea
well, Obamacare's pretty much a republican idea.
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also, NATIONAL MEDIA IGNORING THIS
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/
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also, NATIONAL MEDIA IGNORING THIS
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/
From April?
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In other news, trial is underway concerning the Atlanta public schools cheating scandal. http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/ (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/local/atlanta-cheating-investigator-testifies-about-go-t/nZdnb/)
Looks like the national media is ignoring this.
Here's a good summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlanta_Public_Schools_cheating_scandal)
Or, if you prefer left-wing sources only: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tag/atlanta-schools-cheating)
What crime are these people being charged with?
Lots of defendants, lots of charges. Mainly conspiracy, false statements, some RICO, etc.
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I have no problem with voucher programs, especially when public schools are failing to meet state education requirements. My only concern is that many of the private schools these kids are being sent to are even worse when it comes to educating their students. For example, many of these private schools teach things like intelligent design, which is fine, but in the interest of educating our children, I'd like to at least see evolution taught as an alternative science. I think a lot of people are just afraid that these programs are going to lead to mass indoctrination. Personally, I don't have a problem with it, but I can see why others might.
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also, NATIONAL MEDIA IGNORING THIS
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/
From April?
Ah, so it is.
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also, NATIONAL MEDIA IGNORING THIS
http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/04/01/atlanta-cheating-scandal-puts-national-education-policy-on-trial/
From April?
Ah, so it is.
Also, pretty sure MSNBC doesn't qualify as "national media" anymore. Viewership is in free fall (http://freebeacon.com/msnbc-ratings-down-double-digits-from-a-year-ago/). Primetime now averaging about a half-million viewers, which is probably less than some blogs. I would guess that NBC is going to sell it off within a year or two, and it will sell for pennies on the dollar. Think Air America.
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Ok
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Fox News' ratings are down as well (lowest ratings in a decade):
http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/july-2013-ratings-fox-news-down-despite-big-news-month_b190131 (http://www.mediabistro.com/tvnewser/july-2013-ratings-fox-news-down-despite-big-news-month_b190131)
http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/27/cnn-has-ratings-gains-across-the-board-in-august-while-fxnc-and-msnbc-shed-viewers-throughout-all-dayparts/ (http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2013/08/27/cnn-has-ratings-gains-across-the-board-in-august-while-fxnc-and-msnbc-shed-viewers-throughout-all-dayparts/)
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For example, many of these private schools teach things like intelligent design, which is fine, but in the interest of educating our children.
that's not fine at all. it's bad enough we are all forced to pay for the effort to make other people's children smarter, we shouldn't pay to make them stupider as well.
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For example, many of these private schools teach things like intelligent design, which is fine, but in the interest of educating our children, I'd like to at least see evolution taught as an alternative science.
that's not fine at all. it's bad enough we are all forced to pay for the effort to make other people's children smarter, we shouldn't pay to make them stupider as well.
Well, I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with the omitted text.
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All children should go to the university of the united states of america.
KState s already pretty crowded
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Well, I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with the omitted text.
your qualification was almost worse.
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Well, I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with the omitted text.
your qualification was almost worse.
No crap.. "as an alternative science"
Pfft.
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Well, I agree, which is why I qualified my statement with the omitted text.
your qualification was almost worse.
No crap.. "as an alternative science"
Pfft.
Context, people... JFC.
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http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html
:fatty:
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http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html
:fatty:
That's parody, right? I can't tell because it's Slate. I mean, this is the true philosophy behind much of the opposition to vouchers, I just wouldn't expect the a "mainstream" liberal publication to admit it.
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http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html
:fatty:
lol
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http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/08/private_school_vs_public_school_only_bad_people_send_their_kids_to_private.html
:fatty:
That's parody, right? I can't tell because it's Slate. I mean, this is the true philosophy behind much of the opposition to vouchers, I just wouldn't expect the a "mainstream" liberal publication to admit it.
did you read it? It's basically calling on liberals to put their money where their mouth is. It's pretty funny, too.
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That's a great article, michigancat. It's spot on.
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Thanks for sharing, mich. Good stuff.
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did you read it? It's basically calling on liberals to put their money where their mouth is. It's pretty funny, too.
Right, I especially enjoyed this part:
Your children and grandchildren might get mediocre educations in the meantime, but it will be worth it, for the eventual common good. ... So, how would this work exactly? It’s simple! Everyone needs to be invested in our public schools in order for them to get better. Not just lip-service investment, or property tax investment, but real flesh-and-blood-offspring investment.
:lol:
I also enjoyed the analogy of this "everybody has to go to shitty public schools to eventually make them better" approach to single-payer healthcare. :lol: :lol:
So is the author serious or not? I really can't tell. That's the extent of libtards libtardedness.
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Well wonders never cease, from the majority liberal WaPo editorial board: http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-justice-department-bids-to-trap-poor-black-children-in-ineffective-schools/2013/09/01/2173e5a6-0f77-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-justice-department-bids-to-trap-poor-black-children-in-ineffective-schools/2013/09/01/2173e5a6-0f77-11e3-85b6-d27422650fd5_story.html)
Justice Department bids to trap poor, black children in ineffective schools
By Editorial Board, Published: September 1
NINE OF 10 Louisiana children who receive vouchers to attend private schools are black. All are poor and, if not for the state assistance, would be consigned to low-performing or failing schools with little chance of learning the skills they will need to succeed as adults. So it’s bewildering, if not downright perverse, for the Obama administration to use the banner of civil rights to bring a misguided suit that would block these disadvantaged students from getting the better educational opportunities they are due.
The Justice Department has petitioned a U.S. District Courtto bar Louisiana from awarding vouchers for the 2014-15 school year to students in public school systems that are under federal desegregation orders, unless the vouchers are first approved by a federal judge. The government argues that allowing students to leave their public schools for vouchered private schools threatens to disrupt the desegregation of school systems. A hearing is tentatively set for Sept. 19.
There’s no denying the state’s racist history of school segregation or its ugly efforts in the late 1960s and early 1970s to undermine desegregation orders by helping white children to evade racially integrated schools. These efforts included funneling public money to all-white private schools. But the situation today bears no resemblance to those terrible days. Since most of the students using vouchers are black, it is, as State Education Superintendent John White pointed out to the New Orleans Times-Picayune, “a little ridiculous” to argue that the departure of mostly black students to voucher schools would make their home school systems less white. Every private school participating in the voucher program must comply with the color-blind policies of the federal desegregation court orders.
The government’s argument that “the loss of students through the voucher program reversed much of the progress made toward integration” becomes even more absurd upon examination of the cases it cited in its petition. Consider the analysis from University of Arkansas professor of education reform Jay P. Greene of a school that lost five white students through vouchers and saw a shift in racial composition from 29.6?percent white to 28.9?percent white. Another school that lost six black students and saw a change in racial composition from 30.1?percent black to 29.2?percent black. “Though the students .?.?. almost certainly would not have noticed a difference, the racial bean counters at the DOJ see worsening segregation,” Mr. Greene wrote on his blog.
The number that should matter to federal officials is this: Roughly 86 percent of students in the voucher program came from schools that were rated D or F. Mr. White called ironic using rules to fight racism to keep students in failing schools; we think it appalling.
Unfortunately, though, it is not a surprise from an administration that, despite its generally progressive views on school reform, has proven to be hostile — as witnessed by its petty machinations against D.C.’s voucher program — to the school choice afforded by private-school vouchers. Mr. White told us that from Day One, the five-year-old voucher program has been subject to unrelenting scrutiny and questions from federal officials. Louisiana parents are clamoring for the choice afforded by this program; the state is insisting on accountability; poor students are benefiting. The federal government should get out of the way.
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The vouchers are not working, K-S-U-Wildcats! The private schools these kids are getting sent to would receive an F grade under the same standards the public schools are held. Why should the Louisiana taxpayers be expected to continue to fund a failing program?
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The vouchers are not working, K-S-U-Wildcats! The private schools these kids are getting sent to would receive an F grade under the same standards the public schools are held. Why should the Louisiana taxpayers be expected to continue to fund a failing program?
maybe the federal school grading system is flawed or skewed to fit the public schools curriculum. poor minorities are still trying to escape the public schools for private, so they must be doing something right.
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The vouchers are not working, K-S-U-Wildcats! The private schools these kids are getting sent to would receive an F grade under the same standards the public schools are held. Why should the Louisiana taxpayers be expected to continue to fund a failing program?
maybe the federal school grading system is flawed or skewed to fit the public schools curriculum. poor minorities are still trying to escape the public schools for private, so they must be doing something right.
I don't know. I've never taken a federal test. I was part of the group as a HS senior that took early NCLB tests to set cutoffs for future classes, though. It seemed to just focus on reading, English, and math. You know, very basic stuff that nobody should be able to graduate high school without.
I really think that the success of private schools is really built more upon the lack of poor students moreso than any abundance of good teachers. It just doesn't make sense why a good teacher would stick around for the poor pay and lack of benefits compared to public ed.
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The vouchers are not working, K-S-U-Wildcats! The private schools these kids are getting sent to would receive an F grade under the same standards the public schools are held. Why should the Louisiana taxpayers be expected to continue to fund a failing program?
If the private schools are just as bad, if not worse, than the public schools, then why are parents clamoring to get their kids into the private schools? In many cases, the vouchers do not cover the entire cost of tuition, which means that not only are parents choosing to send their kids to a new school, they're footing the bill for at least some portion of the tuition.
And again, you're arguing the merits of voucher programs, which is pretty misguided in and of itself, but it completely ignores the shameful political action being taken by our supposed Department of "Justice." Under Holder and Obama, it truly has been transformed into the Department of Liberal Politics.
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The vouchers are not working, K-S-U-Wildcats! The private schools these kids are getting sent to would receive an F grade under the same standards the public schools are held. Why should the Louisiana taxpayers be expected to continue to fund a failing program?
If the private schools are just as bad, if not worse, than the public schools, then why are parents clamoring to get their kids into the private schools? In many cases, the vouchers do not cover the entire cost of tuition, which means that not only are parents choosing to send their kids to a new school, they're footing the bill for at least some portion of the tuition.
And again, you're arguing the merits of voucher programs, which is pretty misguided in and of itself, but it completely ignores the shameful political action being taken by our supposed Department of "Justice." Under Holder and Obama, it truly has been transformed into the Department of Liberal Politics.
People believe the private schools are better. No objective analysis has proven that to be the case.
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If you guys are still talking about Louisiana, the parents are choosing private schools for religion and racial issues.
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You could argue that this program removes some of the best students from a disproportionate number of minority schools, thus making minority schools even worse. I don't think there's real evidence to support that, though. (although there does seem to be evidence that this doesn't actually improve education).
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You could argue that this program removes some of the best students from a disproportionate number of minority schools, thus making minority schools even worse. I don't think there's real evidence to support that, though. (although there does seem to be evidence that this doesn't actually improve education).
I don't think it is removing the best students, though.
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I think you guys missed the part about 90% of the vouchers going to poor minority students.
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You could argue that this program removes some of the best students from a disproportionate number of minority schools, thus making minority schools even worse. I don't think there's real evidence to support that, though. (although there does seem to be evidence that this doesn't actually improve education).
I don't think it is removing the best students, though.
Yeah, that's true.
Also, kind of funny: the DOJ is only trying to stop this in districts that are still affected by desegregation laws. New Orleans students wouldn't be affected, it appears. About 570 students out of the 5000 who won the lottery were affected.
"...the United State is not asking that this Court enjoin the State from awarding any school vouchers," the suit says. "With respect to students attending school districts operating under federal desegregation orders, however, the United States requests that this Court permanently enjoin the State from issuing any future voucher awards to these students unless and until it [Louisiana] obtains authorization from the federal court overseeing the applicable desegregation case."
http://media.nola.com/education_impact/other/US%20DOJ%20petition%20vouchers%20deseg.pdf
http://www.nola.com/education/index.ssf/2013/08/us_government_files_to_block_s.html
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I think you guys missed the part about 90% of the vouchers going to poor minority students.
Why does that matter? The vouchers are not working. They are a waste of money. I thought you supported reducing wasteful government programs that don't work.
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I think you guys missed the part about 90% of the vouchers going to poor minority students.
Why does that matter? The vouchers are not working. They are a waste of money. I thought you supported reducing wasteful government programs that don't work.
I don't see this as wasteful. The government is still spending the same amount per student, and I'm not convinced a federal government study is a good way to judge the schools for which they would like to see gone.
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The government is still spending the same amount per student, and I'm not convinced a federal government study is a good way to judge the schools for which they would like to see gone.
what on earth are you talking about?
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One to Seven years in prison for the cheating cheaters. http://news.yahoo.com/pleas-mulled-former-atlanta-educators-test-cheating-scandal-120733406.html;_ylt=AwrBJR8ROi1VG0YAVUTQtDMD (http://news.yahoo.com/pleas-mulled-former-atlanta-educators-test-cheating-scandal-120733406.html;_ylt=AwrBJR8ROi1VG0YAVUTQtDMD)
I wonder if that's a minimum security prison or a pound me in the ass prison? Either way, the prison library staff just got a major boost.
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Prison seems really harsh for cheating on tests.
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weird thing to be happy about and an absolute absurd reason to put someone in prision
yaaaayyy police state, maybe we will start imprisoning people next to murders, thieves, and rapists who lie to their spouses too
GO JAIL!!! :dance:
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They were convicted of racketeering. Teachers and adminsitrators conspired to engage in systemic cheating at certain schools and districts in order to increase the size of their own paychecks. That's not just cheating, it's theft. They absolutely deserved prison. This is not about some student hiding answers on his TI-85.
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They were convicted of racketeering. Teachers and adminsitrators conspired to engage in systemic cheating at certain schools and districts in order to increase the size of their own paychecks. That's not just cheating, it's theft. They absolutely deserved prison. This is not about some student hiding answers on his TI-85.
It's hardly theft. They deserve to be fired and to lose their licenses. We don't need to put them in prison. That's ridiculous.
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They were convicted of racketeering. Teachers and adminsitrators conspired to engage in systemic cheating at certain schools and districts in order to increase the size of their own paychecks. That's not just cheating, it's theft. They absolutely deserved prison. This is not about some student hiding answers on his TI-85.
It's hardly theft. They deserve to be fired and to lose their licenses. We don't need to put them in prison. That's ridiculous.
When you conspire to cheat in order to pad your own paycheck with more taxpayer money, it is absolutely theft.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
Not reporting it to the authorities is obstruction of justice.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
Not reporting it to the authorities is obstruction of justice.
The teachers who reported it to the authorities were fired by those authorities.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
Not reporting it to the authorities is obstruction of justice.
The teachers who reported it to the authorities were fired by those authorities.
don't be stupid.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
Not reporting it to the authorities is obstruction of justice.
The teachers who reported it to the authorities were fired by those authorities.
don't be stupid.
Oh, did you mean the police? You think teachers should have called the cops because some other teacher was fixing test scores?
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
Oh, so if you steal then restitution is enough? No other punishment? It's like the "no harm no foul" theory! :lol:
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
Oh, so if you steal then restitution is enough? No other punishment? It's like the "no harm no foul" theory! :lol:
what's the dollar amount they "stole"
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
Oh, so if you steal then restitution is enough? No other punishment? It's like the "no harm no foul" theory! :lol:
Should we send OK Cat to prison, too? He stole the first 4 episodes of Game of Thrones season 5.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
They took money from whatever government agency they are paid through via fraud. I would equate it to embezzlement.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
The way that reads, the teachers were told to either cheat or lose their jobs. Sounds like racketeering to me.
Not reporting it to the authorities is obstruction of justice.
The teachers who reported it to the authorities were fired by those authorities.
don't be stupid.
Oh, did you mean the police? You think teachers should have called the cops because some other teacher was fixing test scores?
I would say the district attorney's office would be the place to go if you are being blackmailed.
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Overcrowding prisons seems like a really stupid reason to stop punishing theft, fraud and conspiracy, and a really good reason to build more prisons. Police State dems can celebrate to shovel ready stimulus and low paying jobs like it's 2009.
MIR, don't worry, the Rico statutes provide for restitution.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
Yeah. I'd add a whole lot of community service to that, too.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
What? That's crazy. People would steal all the time if there were no consequences for it.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
What? That's crazy. People would steal all the time if there were no consequences for it.
The criminal record would cost you your job in just about every case. It wouldn't be enough for people who are already unemployed or have shitty jobs, though.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
What? That's crazy. People would steal all the time if there were no consequences for it.
The criminal record would cost you your job in just about every case. It wouldn't be enough for people who are already unemployed or have shitty jobs, though.
I think it would be fine. Keep in mind I'm not talking about armed robbery, breaking and entering, etc. Just common theft with no damage to people or property.
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
What? That's crazy. People would steal all the time if there were no consequences for it.
The criminal record would cost you your job in just about every case. It wouldn't be enough for people who are already unemployed or have shitty jobs, though.
I think it would be fine. Keep in mind I'm not talking about armed robbery, breaking and entering, etc. Just common theft with no damage to people or property.
The problem is that these people rarely get caught, and without any sort of punishment beyond giving the item back, there is nothing to keep them from just stealing all of the time. You need fines and community service as a deterrent. I agree that we don't need to throw more money into jails and prisons for them.
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I worked for a company that had someone embezzle 100 g's. The money was blown and there was no way to recover it or any additional interest. What now?
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I worked for a company that had someone embezzle 100 g's. The money was blown and there was no way to recover it or any additional interest. What now?
Well obviously you give them a stern talking to and put them on a repayment plan. I'm sure they feel terrible about it. Why overcrowd the prisons?
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I worked for a company that had someone embezzle 100 g's. The money was blown and there was no way to recover it or any additional interest. What now?
community service
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Tattoo their foreheads with "thief". Maybe even spell it wrong to make it more embarrassing.
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They probably only embezzled because the man wasn't paying a living wage. Punish the man.
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Yes, they deserved prison.
http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/ (http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/29/us/georgia-cheating-scandal/)
We know what happened, not sure why you posted the link. Charging them under the RICO statute like they are murderous gangsters is embarrassingly heavy handed. Losing their careers and any chance to work in those careers ever again along with restitution and public shame is fine. These people have spouses and children. I won't even get into the fact that we have overcrowded prisons and now we're putting people in them that cheated on standardized tests. Aren't you people the ones always whining about government spending, these are the people we need to be spending six figures on housing. Are these people menaces to society?
I didn't expect you to care about stealing tax dollars, but these people shortchanged the educations of thousands of mostly black students. I'm surprised you're being so lenient.
You're talking about theory, they didn't literally take money from anyone. Did you miss the part where I mentioned restitution or do you not know what that is?
Oh, so if you steal then restitution is enough? No other punishment? It's like the "no harm no foul" theory! :lol:
Should we send OK Cat to prison, too? He stole the first 4 episodes of Game of Thrones season 5.
I resisted the urge! So I won't go to prison! Yay!
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
No, that's appropriate punishment for borrowing money. Stealing it under false pretenses ruins people's lives you imbecile.
Think of it like this. You have kids who need food. Someone steals all your money. You can't feed your kids and they die. The thief can't pay you back because he won't work and the interest won't bring your kids back to life anyways.
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I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me how much money they stole and who they stole it from.
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I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me how much money they stole and who they stole it from.
I'm not familiar with the exact amount, but they were convicted of cheating in order to earn higher bonuses and other incentive pay. They stole those bonuses and other incentive pay. From the taxpayers. I don't understand why you can't understand this...
Student achievement helped the former principals, teachers and administrators to secure promotions and cash bonuses.
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3-6 months seems more appropriate
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
Where do you draw the line in that? I mean, how long was bernie madoff (sp) sentenced?
If they altered documents (tests) for financial self interest(bonuses). It's like the accountant signing himself extra checks or paying personal bills with the company credit card.
This is just getting ppl twisted because of the proximity to ed and standardized testing, imo.
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3-6 months seems more appropriate
of probation, maybe
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I think restitution + interest is plenty of punishment for straight up theft.
Where do you draw the line in that? I mean, how long was bernie madoff (sp) sentenced?
If they altered documents (tests) for financial self interest(bonuses). It's like the accountant signing himself extra checks or paying personal bills with the company credit card.
This is just getting ppl twisted because of the proximity to ed and standardized testing, imo.
How much money did Bernie Madoff take? How big of a bonus is a teacher earning $45k going to get? A couple thousand dollars? I think the incentive came more from trying to hold onto their job than from getting some bonus on the taxpayers' dime. The administrators who supported this should be jailed. For the teachers, I think the public disgrace and loss of career is enough.
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I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me how much money they stole and who they stole it from.
I'm not familiar with the exact amount, but they were convicted of cheating in order to earn higher bonuses and other incentive pay. They stole those bonuses and other incentive pay. From the taxpayers. I don't understand why you can't understand this...
Student achievement helped the former principals, teachers and administrators to secure promotions and cash bonuses.
Right, I understand all of that. The fact that you nor anyone else can tell us how much money they "stole" kinda proves the point that you guys should stop talking about these people in the same vain as if they robbed a bank. The larger crime here is them cheating the tests and not believing in their students capacity to learn. Returning the bonuses, being charged with felonies that essentially ends their careers in education, and giving them probation is absolutely enough of a penalty.
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I'm still waiting for one of you to tell me how much money they stole and who they stole it from.
I'm not familiar with the exact amount, but they were convicted of cheating in order to earn higher bonuses and other incentive pay. They stole those bonuses and other incentive pay. From the taxpayers. I don't understand why you can't understand this...
Student achievement helped the former principals, teachers and administrators to secure promotions and cash bonuses.
Right, I understand all of that. The fact that you nor anyone else can tell us how much money they "stole" kinda proves the point that you guys should stop talking about these people in the same vain as if they robbed a bank. The larger crime here is them cheating the tests and not believing in their students capacity to learn. Returning the bonuses, being charged with felonies that essentially ends their careers in education, and giving them probation is absolutely enough of a penalty.
I can't tell you how much because I'm only reading news accounts that don't report it - not the actual evidence as presented. If anyone finds out, please let me know.
I agree with you that the worse crime is how the teachers shortganged the students. We just disagree on the severity of the penalty.