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General Discussion => Essentially Flyertalk => Topic started by: CHONGS on June 19, 2013, 03:25:38 PM

Title: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CHONGS on June 19, 2013, 03:25:38 PM
The color you see with your eyes in complete darkness is called eigengrau.

(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F7%2F7e%2FEigengrau_Color_Example.png&hash=3d43b287f8c8a7e56c843a7d489ee5a05084eabb)
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 19, 2013, 03:38:51 PM
Fun!

Can there be only one fact per day?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: 'taterblast on June 19, 2013, 03:39:49 PM
Quote
Eigengrau is perceived as lighter than a black object in normal lighting conditions, because contrast is more important to the visual system than absolute brightness. For example, the night sky looks darker than eigengrau because of the contrast provided by the stars.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 19, 2013, 03:46:18 PM
This is really interesting.  In Principal Component Analysis, eigen values greater than one could be perceived as factors after a rotation (verimax/promax).  Eigen in German means self or one's perception (sometimes from the self) (via wikipedia, not me).  The translation of eigengrau means self gray/ashen or one's perception of darkness.  Pretty cool word and it would make and awesome band name.  Nice fact of the day!
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Unruly on June 19, 2013, 03:46:46 PM
Take it to the Random facts you find interesting thread.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 19, 2013, 03:48:57 PM
Take it to the Random facts you find interesting thread.

Oh yea...I forgot about that thread.  Unruly, you are truly the Dewey Decimal System to this goEMAW.com library.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 19, 2013, 03:49:11 PM
This is really interesting.  In Principal Component Analysis, eigen values greater than one could be perceived as factors after a rotation (verimax/promax).  Eigen in German means self or one's perception (sometimes from the self) (via wikipedia, not me).  The translation of eigengrau means self gray/ashen or one's perception of darkness.  Pretty cool word and it would make and awesome band name.  Nice fact of the day!

can I juice up on some of your brain pills
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 19, 2013, 03:54:09 PM
This is really interesting.  In Principal Component Analysis, eigen values greater than one could be perceived as factors after a rotation (verimax/promax).  Eigen in German means self or one's perception (sometimes from the self) (via wikipedia, not me).  The translation of eigengrau means self gray/ashen or one's perception of darkness.  Pretty cool word and it would make and awesome band name.  Nice fact of the day!

can I juice up on some of your brain pills

Provigil = straight cash.  It's like a steroid for your Hippocampus, cerebellum outer cortex memory functions.  Or just be a nerd...either way works.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Stevesie60 on June 20, 2013, 02:34:46 AM
Now this is a thread I can get behind.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Saulbadguy on June 20, 2013, 08:04:58 AM
'shopped
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: michigancat on June 20, 2013, 09:32:41 AM
This fact IS fun! :exctited:
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Fldermaus on June 20, 2013, 09:46:02 AM
I cannot wait for today's FUN FACT!!!   :party:
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CNS on June 20, 2013, 09:58:36 AM
This is really interesting.  In Principal Component Analysis, eigen values greater than one could be perceived as factors after a rotation (verimax/promax).  Eigen in German means self or one's perception (sometimes from the self) (via wikipedia, not me).  The translation of eigengrau means self gray/ashen or one's perception of darkness.  Pretty cool word and it would make and awesome band name.  Nice fact of the day!

Does this all mean that we need contrast to experience the color black, and if that is the case, does black even exist?  Or is it simply that we only see eigengrau but that it seems darker because of the contrast?  If that is the case, black isn't even a figment of our imagination, it is a physical creation of our shitty eyes?   I mean, if we are in complete darkness and see something lighter, that seems to be the case to me.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: SabiNation on June 20, 2013, 10:22:50 AM
DOES BLACK EVEN EXIST?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CNS on June 20, 2013, 10:29:44 AM
Yeah, I love this type of stuff and tend to nerd out on it.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: OK_Cat on June 20, 2013, 10:29:54 AM
DOES BLACK EVEN EXIST?

(https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2368568189/avatar.JPEG)
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Emo EMAW on June 20, 2013, 10:33:24 AM
DOES BLACK EVEN EXIST?

When I ponder such things, I'm reminded of a famous Basque quote that (translated) says:

"Everything that has a name exists."

http://www.buber.net/Basque/Folklore/olentzero.html
Title: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Kat Kid on June 20, 2013, 10:39:01 AM
Train conductors never really check tickets they just walk around and hole punch stuff and collect cash for tickets from total rubes.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 20, 2013, 02:51:29 PM
This is really interesting.  In Principal Component Analysis, eigen values greater than one could be perceived as factors after a rotation (verimax/promax).  Eigen in German means self or one's perception (sometimes from the self) (via wikipedia, not me).  The translation of eigengrau means self gray/ashen or one's perception of darkness.  Pretty cool word and it would make and awesome band name.  Nice fact of the day!

Does this all mean that we need contrast to experience the color black, and if that is the case, does black even exist?  Or is it simply that we only see eigengrau but that it seems darker because of the contrast?  If that is the case, black isn't even a figment of our imagination, it is a physical creation of our shitty eyes?   I mean, if we are in complete darkness and see something lighter, that seems to be the case to me.

I kind of know where to go with this post but I don't want to write a wall of text.  As a young Blumperz, I remember reading this article on color vision and the evolution therein.  http://www.imaging.org/ist/publications/reporter/issues/Reporter20_1.pdf  In general, humans see black, white and red similarly.  Variations exists with other colors, but perception of colors is remarkably stable across cultures.  The famous work of Berlin and Kay (1969) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_Color_Terms:_Their_Universality_and_Evolution points out that color categories are indeed universal.  Color combinations are subject to cultural limitations which is what relativism proposes.  Black does exist, but not within our perception.  Take a dog whistle as an example.  You don't hear the high pitch frequency because it is beyond our perception, but the frequency exists.  Black is no different.

Things get even more bizarre when culture/language shapes what we actually hear (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6747097).  Because most of us only speak English, we can only perceive English based phonemes and syntax.  Crazy stuff.  As an adult, it is difficult for me to even perceive Mandarin Chinese because I lack the cognitive structures to actually hear it.  I gotta stop or I'll write a freaking thesis here.

Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 20, 2013, 02:54:09 PM
Train conductors never really check tickets they just walk around and hole punch stuff and collect cash for tickets from total rubes.

Then whats up with people who get booted from the train? staged? just didn't like the look of them?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CNS on June 20, 2013, 02:58:03 PM
Blump would be awesome to hang out with in a place that is quiet enough to have a convo.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: michigancat on June 20, 2013, 02:59:17 PM
Train conductors never really check tickets they just walk around and hole punch stuff and collect cash for tickets from total rubes.

Then whats up with people who get booted from the train? staged? just didn't like the look of them?

Have you ever seen someone get booted from a train in real life?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 20, 2013, 02:59:48 PM
DOES BLACK EVEN EXIST?

Are we human or are we dancer?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Super PurpleCat on June 20, 2013, 03:03:14 PM
So on the flipside is pure white really just eggshell white to our eyes?  How does this affect our kitchen appliances?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 20, 2013, 03:14:22 PM
Train conductors never really check tickets they just walk around and hole punch stuff and collect cash for tickets from total rubes.

Then whats up with people who get booted from the train? staged? just didn't like the look of them?

Have you ever seen someone get booted from a train in real life?

Yup. From the Metra. He didn't have a ticket. But he was also drunk and belligerent and had a 30 pack under one arm. But no ticket.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 20, 2013, 03:16:43 PM
So on the flipside is pure white really just eggshell white to our eyes?  How does this affect our kitchen appliances?

White is the coolest of the colors.  We all know about rods and cones.  Cones have a high density in the center of our eye (called the fovea).  Color receptors are on these cones which attach to what is called the Retinal Pigment Epithelium (detached retina is when your eyes are no longer attached to the Epithelium).  White light frequency comes in and pretty much effs your cones with awesomeness.  That is why we have to close our eyes when the light is bright enough.  All of the color perceptors are firing at once and when the frequency stops the receptors rest and you see an after-image opposite of the color you are looking at.  The Retinal Pigment Epithelium is the food tortilla wrapping around the burrito that is our eye balls.

Conclusion: Looking at a white toaster gives our eyeballs a spectral erection.  If it lasts too long, see your doctor.

sidenote: Back in the day, the egyptians/romans believed cats could see the underworld as evidenced when they saw "fire" in their eyes and that they could sense the dead.  This is called emination theory.  It really is just light reflecting off of their retinal pigment epitheliums.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Asteriskhead on June 20, 2013, 03:21:34 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftheoatmeal-img%2Fcomics%2Fmantis_shrimp%2Fmantis_shrimp_1.png&hash=48eb1dc7fd74b8078b52f0e8ef07cb5538be04c4)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fs3.amazonaws.com%2Ftheoatmeal-img%2Fcomics%2Fmantis_shrimp%2Fmantis_shrimp_2.png&hash=a41a8f2408787daff48ebf9092b53e063500d8be)

see it all here: http://theoatmeal.com/comics/mantis_shrimp
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CNS on June 20, 2013, 03:45:04 PM
:surprised:
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: star seed 7 on June 20, 2013, 03:45:52 PM
pretty great post MH.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Unruly on June 20, 2013, 03:56:55 PM
 :curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:


MODS MERGE THESE


http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=27168.125
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 20, 2013, 03:57:48 PM
:curse: :curse: :curse: :curse:


MODS MERGE THESE


http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=27168.125

nope, this is for discussing one fact per day. Not just whatever fact you find interesting.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: highway61 on June 20, 2013, 04:03:40 PM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: puniraptor on June 20, 2013, 04:21:32 PM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.

I heard this on a sciencey podcast of some kind also
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Unruly on June 20, 2013, 04:23:30 PM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.

Really?

You didn't get what set of cones he was talking about?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Stevesie60 on June 20, 2013, 05:16:01 PM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.

I heard this the other day in a conversation!
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: OK_Cat on June 21, 2013, 09:24:50 AM
that mantis shrimp sure is a stud boss
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: SabiNation on June 21, 2013, 10:03:28 AM
that mantis shrimp sure is a stud boss

 :horrorsurprise:    no kidding
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: michigancat on June 21, 2013, 10:25:46 AM
I saw the mantis shrimp one when it was just the first image and it made no sense. The second one made sense. :thumbs:
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 21, 2013, 10:25:56 AM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.

Really?

You didn't get what set of cones he was talking about?

How would you know if you had these extra cones?

Do extra cones allow you to differentiate between different shades better or allow you (or a shrimp) to see part of the spectrum that people can't see (like ultraviolet)?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: OK_Cat on June 21, 2013, 10:32:52 AM
i think he was being hur hur and talking about breasts.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 21, 2013, 10:40:38 AM
i think he was being hur hur and talking about breasts.

I don't think so. Well maybe he was, but it's a real thing.
http://discovermagazine.com/2012/jul-aug/06-humans-with-super-human-vision#.UcRzYPk3vfQ
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Shacks on June 21, 2013, 11:03:46 AM
A tour guide on a bus in NYC told me that some women, but not all, have a 4th set of cones that lets them see different shades that others can't differentiate.  No idea if he knew what he was talking about, but he seemed smart.

Really?

You didn't get what set of cones he was talking about?

How would you know if you had these extra cones?

Do extra cones allow you to differentiate between different shades better or allow you (or a shrimp) to see part of the spectrum that people can't see (like ultraviolet)?

Spending hours at Home Depot trying to pick between 100 different shades/variations of the same color paint and sighing when your significant other says he doesn't give a damn which one you pick because they all look identical
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: steve dave on June 21, 2013, 11:07:59 AM
what do you guys think those extra colors look like? like, green'ish probably?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Spaces on June 21, 2013, 11:11:57 AM
what do you guys think those extra colors look like? like, green'ish probably?
prob not that great
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: SabiNation on June 21, 2013, 11:12:21 AM
what do you guys think those extra colors look like? like, green'ish probably?

or purple-y
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Mrs. Gooch on June 21, 2013, 11:13:06 AM
what do you guys think those extra colors look like? like, green'ish probably?

I don't think you even have words to describe them.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: steve dave on June 21, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
what do you guys think those extra colors look like? like, green'ish probably?

I don't think you even have words to describe them.

the hell if I don't
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on June 21, 2013, 11:20:23 AM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: bubbles4ksu on June 21, 2013, 11:20:37 AM
some women have a fourth cone in their eyeballs. not sure how they name crap. they should probably get together with sd and come up with names.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: bubbles4ksu on June 21, 2013, 11:22:33 AM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

didn't read your whole dumb question but i'm almost positive that blumperz first post answered it.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Stevesie60 on June 21, 2013, 11:23:02 AM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

Never taken a philosophy class I take it?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: CNS on June 21, 2013, 11:25:38 AM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

Never taken a philosophy class I take it?

My psych prof posed this exact question like day 3 of class.  Says there is an orange chair in the corner of the room, we all look at it and now see the color orange because he declared it as such.  Said that colors may not exist, only assigned by our minds.  Physics disagrees. 

Also, we have what we need to describe other colors.  It's frequency range.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: The Tonya Harding of Twitter Users Creep on June 21, 2013, 11:27:33 AM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

Never taken a philosophy class I take it?

watched bill and ted's excellent adventure once?
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: OK_Cat on June 21, 2013, 12:42:20 PM
fun fact of the day that i just read:  michael jackson didn't sleep for the last 60 days of his life.   :horrorsurprise:
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 21, 2013, 01:09:30 PM
what if everyone saw colors differently?

for instance- i see orange. ive learned that that color in my mind is orange, so i call it orange. you see what i see as green, but in your mind its also orange. we would never know that were seeing different colors because weve learned it that way. how do you describe colors without other colors or objects? it would be impossible. think about that.

Never taken a philosophy class I take it?

My psych prof posed this exact question like day 3 of class.  Says there is an orange chair in the corner of the room, we all look at it and now see the color orange because he declared it as such.  Said that colors may not exist, only assigned by our minds.  Physics disagrees. 

Also, we have what we need to describe other colors.  It's frequency range.

Colors exist.  I hope your Psych prof was just trying to prove a point.  Hunter S. Thompson wrote about how we ascribe meaning to words (a theoretical framework called phenomenology which is grounded in constructivist theories researched/created by Jean Piaget and John Bowlsby).  He wrote famously the line "are we human or are we dancer"?  He was referring to the fact that humans live choreographed lives and the noun dancer equally applies to what is meant by the human condition (thus dancer and human are synonyms).  I think your psych prof was just trying to prove this point that culture/people shape the words you use to describe phenomenons.  It doesn't necessarily mean you actually perceive something differently, you just aren't describing it similarly.

I am a contextualist grounded in theories created by Lev Vygotsky (sociocultural perspective) and Urie Bronfenbrenner (bioecological models).  I believe phenemons are tangible (exist) and perceptions are stable across people (to some extent anyway).  I do, however, believe that genetics/environment interact with culture/time/place (growing up in the depression era in the US is much different than growing up in the 1980s).  Take an 11 year old child.  For them, 9/11 always happened.  For me, I lived it and experienced the change.  It is in my professional experience that perception is similar across people, but the memory and ability to describe a memory varies greatly from person to person.  Behavior and motivation behind behaviors is even more complex.  Take winning a national championship as an example.  If the Cats won (when they win) the national championship in football, our fanbase is going to flip their collective crap.  When Alabama wins a national title, it is expected and the fanbase doesn't react the same as ours would.  The event is the same, but the behavior and memory of events will differ greatly from person to person.  Some Alabama fans will remember what they were wearing and eating on that day...others will be ho hum as memory of the event will not be as vivid and behavior mild.

I could go on and on.  What got me into psychology was learning and memory.  I always found it fascinating that most of my memories are in the third person and I tend to look the way I am today in those memories.  So cool.  /end Blumperz effing awesome off-the-top of the head ramblings.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: SabiNation on June 21, 2013, 01:12:31 PM
Blumpz: you fascinate me, friend.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: KSUblumpkin on June 21, 2013, 02:17:33 PM
Blumpz: you fascinate me, friend.

Thanks SabiNation!  I'm just a dreamer dreaming the dreams we all once dreamt (really just a nerd though). 
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Mikeyis4dcats on June 22, 2013, 08:39:00 AM
fun fact of the day that i just read:  michael jackson didn't sleep for the last 60 days of his life.   :horrorsurprise:

didn't achieve REM, there's a difference...
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: Mr Bread on June 22, 2013, 01:30:56 PM
How the eff would anyone know he didn't achieve REM for sixty days?  Goddamnit Mikey.
Title: Re: Fun Fact for the day:
Post by: lopakman on June 22, 2013, 08:18:49 PM
How the eff would anyone know he didn't achieve REM for sixty days?  Goddamnit Mikey.

Because propofol dummy.