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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on April 22, 2013, 07:51:21 PM
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Short term it stinks. I really enjoyed watching Angel and with him oscar had a chance to have an all league type leader a couple more years. With that, the Cats were likely looking at more NCAA appearances as long as other players progressed and a couple newcomers came with some ability to contribute. But long term it puts the ball firmly in oscar's court and really shrinks the transition period. In some ways it takes some luster off the Big 12 title (at least in terms of job security) and now K-State fans will see his coaching and program building for what it is, not with as much benefit of "toughness residue" from Frank's tenure. The Frank residue is now a nice set of complimentary players, as its doubtful Shane, Will, or Gip are all league caliber.
Next year the backcourt is pretty much oscar's besides role playing Will. And even with Will, at times oscar showed a tendency to play Tay more minutes when it was clear Will couldn't compete athletically (or when Will was injured). In any case, for oscar's future he has to hope he hits on at least 3 of these current 4 perimeter recruits to be Big 12 level players, and at least one probably needs to be an all league caliber player. For the most part, the backcourt is where college basketball is built, and especially if oscar continues with his 2 guard/2 swing system. Losing Angel makes this oscar's team even quicker and the reality of fair judgement for K-State fans should follow suit.
With Angel, K-State fans were probably looking at 2 more years before we could fully call this oscar's program, especially with the carryover from a Big 12 title. But now, in 2 years (3 at the most), we will have a really clear picture of weather or not oscar truly learned from his failure at Illinois or if we'll be looking for a new coach.
oscar Weber, this is now your program.
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Excellent analysis.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Well said
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No way, _FAN. This team is just too young. We won't be able to see what oscar is made of until the players in this incoming class are juniors, maybe seniors.
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:bball:
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This is oscar's team. The three best players are still Frank's, but they are all ones of the caliber and style we will likely see in the future with oscar.
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Great stuff _fan. oscar just probably lost the best 2 players he will have at K-State during his tenure (angel and gruds). Hard to imagine he will even come close to the success he had this season. He will never have the type of recruiting classes he had at Illinois, so it's hard to envision a scenario where we make the tournament consistently since he couldn't even manage that with solid recruiting classes at Illinois.
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No way, _FAN. This team is just too young. We won't be able to see what oscar is made of until the players in this incoming class are juniors, maybe seniors.
They are juniors in 3 more years and I said 3 at the most. oscar gets the young team card for 2 years, then its all his. For me, this simply made judging oscar that much more clearer.
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No NCAA's, no job. Have to upgrade. Have to know how to keep your priorities.
You don't let all conf kids go. You don't let your leader go. You manage your talent and keep them happy.
You don't let post season walk out the door without bringing in a def upgrade unless that kid is leaving to go get drafted.
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Currie made the oscar hire. As long as Currie is still our AD, oscar will be given every chance to succeed.
I foresee a Jim Woolridge-type sixth year coming up soon.
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Until we start doing illegal things we will never compete with the big dogs
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I foresee a Jim Woolridge-type sixth year coming up soon.
No. Currie has his annoying traits, but he isn't nearly as dumb as whoever our AD was then.
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Short term it stinks. I really enjoyed watching Angel and with him oscar had a chance to have an all league type leader a couple more years. With that, the Cats were likely looking at more NCAA appearances as long as other players progressed and a couple newcomers came with some ability to contribute. But long term it puts the ball firmly in oscar's court and really shrinks the transition period. In some ways it takes some luster off the Big 12 title (at least in terms of job security) and now K-State fans will see his coaching and program building for what it is, not with as much benefit of "toughness residue" from Frank's tenure. The Frank residue is now a nice set of complimentary players, as its doubtful Shane, Will, or Gip are all league caliber.
Next year the backcourt is pretty much oscar's besides role playing Will. And even with Will, at times oscar showed a tendency to play Tay more minutes when it was clear Will couldn't compete athletically (or when Will was injured). In any case, for oscar's future he has to hope he hits on at least 3 of these current 4 perimeter recruits to be Big 12 level players, and at least one probably needs to be an all league caliber player. For the most part, the backcourt is where college basketball is built, and especially if oscar continues with his 2 guard/2 swing system. Losing Angel makes this oscar's team even quicker and the reality of fair judgement for K-State fans should follow suit.
With Angel, K-State fans were probably looking at 2 more years before we could fully call this oscar's program, especially with the carryover from a Big 12 title. But now, in 2 years (3 at the most), we will have a really clear picture of weather or not oscar truly learned from his failure at Illinois or if we'll be looking for a new coach.
oscar Weber, this is now your program.
Completely agree...every day I wake up going :bang: thinking about the fact the oscar is our coach. Hopefully he is exposed for the fraud he is sonner rather than later.
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What will it take to be rid of oscar? Missing tourney 3 years in a row 0-6 vs KU?
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Seriously, he needs to make it this season. I mean, he just let an ncaa game or three walk out the door.
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What will it take to be rid of oscar? Missing tourney 3 years in a row 0-6 vs KU?
Good question. Patience next year is understandable, but for where we are at, rebuilding should still mean an NIT. Should be NCAAs when his big class are SOs, and top 4 in the league and solid seed by the time they are JRs. That's not unreasonable in today's college basketball, I'm not interested in some SLTH standard.
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I joined teamburnitdown today.
Didn't want to, but the writing on the wall became clearer.
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No NCAA's, no job. Have to upgrade. Have to know how to keep your priorities.
You don't let all conf kids go. You don't let your leader go. You manage your talent and keep them happy.
You don't let post season walk out the door without bringing in a def upgrade unless that kid is leaving to go get drafted.
Will Shane step up? He definitely seemed to be more vocal than Angel. I assume we will see him leading the tunnel dance next year as well.
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Shane and gip are an island. That island cannot sustain an entire fanbase
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No way, _FAN. This team is just too young. We won't be able to see what oscar is made of until the players in this incoming class are juniors, maybe seniors.
They are juniors in 3 more years and I said 3 at the most. oscar gets the young team card for 2 years, then its all his. For me, this simply made judging oscar that much more clearer.
If you weren't able to properly judge oscar before he took the kstate job, I seriously doubt that any amount if time will be enough to allow you to clearly do it. Jesus. It's like there is a guy with a gun pointed at you telling you that he's going to kill you and you already just saw him shoot five people and you're still standing there debating whether it not he is capable and willing to pull the trigger. So maddening.
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What will it take to be rid of oscar? Missing tourney 3 years in a row 0-6 vs KU?
Good question. Patience next year is understandable, but for where we are at, rebuilding should still mean an NIT. Should be NCAAs when his big class are SOs, and top 4 in the league and solid seed by the time they are JRs. That's not unreasonable in today's college basketball, I'm not interested in some SLTH standard.
this sucks
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If you weren't able to properly judge oscar before he took the kstate job, I seriously doubt that any amount if time will be enough to allow you to clearly do it.
the guy's probably going to retire after kstate. if you can't judge him by this point in his career, you're just not a person that judges.
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No way, _FAN. This team is just too young. We won't be able to see what oscar is made of until the players in this incoming class are juniors, maybe seniors.
They are juniors in 3 more years and I said 3 at the most. oscar gets the young team card for 2 years, then its all his. For me, this simply made judging oscar that much more clearer.
If you weren't able to properly judge oscar before he took the kstate job, I seriously doubt that any amount if time will be enough to allow you to clearly do it. Jesus. It's like there is a guy with a gun pointed at you telling you that he's going to kill you and you already just saw him shoot five people and you're still standing there debating whether it not he is capable and willing to pull the trigger. So maddening.
oscar's last year was a disaster and his last 6 were unspectacular, but once he was hired I wasn't just going to adopt some pessimistic, defeatist attitude toward K-State basketball and still haven't, but I haven't stopped anyone from doing so if they so chose that route. I believe I've been consistent on my oscar perspective. If you end up being correct with your initial judgement, congrats. All I have said its that oscar losing Angel only makes judgement easier for me.
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This is all a foregone conclusion. There is no way Weber makes the tournament the next two years with midmajor level freshman point guards. It just isn't happening until they are uppeclassmen, and it might not happen then. Who are you going to have inside?
Don't make the same mistake we did by letting him hang on and drag the program deep into the gutter. Best case you give him two years of missing the NCAAs then fire him if his players are not looking like they can make it in the third year.
It really is incredible that people in charge of a million dollar basketball program decided to not allow oscar Weber to run the program into the ground but overpay him to do so. So sorry for the loss of your basketball program.
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If you weren't able to properly judge oscar before he took the kstate job, I seriously doubt that any amount if time will be enough to allow you to clearly do it. Jesus. It's like there is a guy with a gun pointed at you telling you that he's going to kill you and you already just saw him shoot five people and you're still standing there debating whether it not he is capable and willing to pull the trigger. So maddening.
Agreed.
And, looks like Catzacker has a new rival in the best-goEMAW-analogy-writer game. That's a gem, Rick. :thumbs:
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If you weren't able to properly judge oscar before he took the kstate job, I seriously doubt that any amount if time will be enough to allow you to clearly do it.
the guy's probably going to retire after kstate. if you can't judge him by this point in his career, you're just not a person that judges.
#teamwaitandsee
just give him a chance. He's only been the k-state coach for a year.
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I totally disagree with your timeline. This team was arguably going to be oscar's team and program next year.
I see a few factors for this. 1) the divorce with Frank. oscar was brought in because of his proven track record talking point. He wasn't mean to be a coach who was suppose to grow and mature into the job. He was brought in to recreate the team in an image of his model. Now he wouldn't be able to do that necessarily, but there were key components to make that happen, Angel being one of them. 2) The players that were left from Frank are either graduating (3 seniors) or were candidates for Franking this season, I can think of Angel as being an exception. That fact makes them malleable as potential "oscar" guys instead of "Frank" guys. Angel as the exception though is an easy work around because he could have been a oscar type of player. Now we obviously know there was a personality conflict there, but I don't see it as a skill set issue where Angel wouldn't work in oscar's system. 3) Many of oscar's players are going to be hitting immediate playing time as the come in. There wouldn't be any true Frankite holdovers. Now Orris is an admitted exception here, but I wonder if he was always meant as a warm body and candidate for Brucing. We already knew we would have a lot of quick changeover, now if we want to talk "young team" talking point instead of "making it his program" talking point, that is an entirely different discussion.
Note: I don't mean my references to talking point as inherently negative. I use that term to cover the wide range of discussion topics and the discourse people have when referring to those talking points.
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burning things down is a very central texas thing to do. we are where we come from.
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It's all about perception to me, call it what you like. No matter what, Angel would've always been a strong connection to Frank and IMO his talent would've bought oscar more time. Now that is gone.
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Lame thread. BURN IT DOWN.
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Lame thread. BURN IT DOWN.
:D
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
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I'm just more apathetic than angry.
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
How long was Tubby at Kentucky after they won their title? I know he left before getting fired, but they were going to fire him eventually.
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I don't care if oscar has a young team next year. He doesn't get extra time for running off two juniors and a senior. If the players he is bringing in are worse than the players leaving early, he should get less time, not more.
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
How long was Tubby at Kentucky after they won their title? I know he left before getting fired, but they were going to fire him eventually.
nine years?
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
How long was Tubby at Kentucky after they won their title? I know he left before getting fired, but they were going to fire him eventually.
nine years?
I just checked; you were right. It was nine.
And I never realized he went to the NCAA tournament every year he was there. He never lost a first round game, either. In his ten years, they went to the Sweet 16 or better six times.
Crazy.
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
How long was Tubby at Kentucky after they won their title? I know he left before getting fired, but they were going to fire him eventually.
nine years?
I just checked; you were right. It was nine.
And I never realized he went to the NCAA tournament every year he was there. He never lost a first round game, either. In his ten years, they went to the Sweet 16 or better six times.
Crazy.
Sounds dreamy. :(
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
you're probably right
How long was Tubby at Kentucky after they won their title? I know he left before getting fired, but they were going to fire him eventually.
nine years?
I just checked; you were right. It was nine.
And I never realized he went to the NCAA tournament every year he was there. He never lost a first round game, either. In his ten years, they went to the Sweet 16 or better six times.
Crazy.
Yeah, it wasn't really a Wooly situation. Tubby was actually a pretty good coach.
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once he was hired I wasn't just going to adopt some pessimistic, defeatist attitude toward K-State basketball and still haven't, but I haven't stopped anyone from doing so if they so chose that route. I believe I've been consistent on my oscar perspective.
you don't have to judge him as horrible, i certainly don't. you can judge him however you want. i just don't see how you can look at a 55 year old man and say you don't have enough information to evaluate him.
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once he was hired I wasn't just going to adopt some pessimistic, defeatist attitude toward K-State basketball and still haven't, but I haven't stopped anyone from doing so if they so chose that route. I believe I've been consistent on my oscar perspective.
you don't have to judge him as horrible, i certainly don't. you can judge him however you want. i just don't see how you can look at a 55 year old man and say you don't have enough information to evaluate him.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmedia.tumblr.com%2Ftumblr_mb8wbhaXfc1rwc6t5.gif&hash=09f81112f53ba5c6207a6112852f071ac0415cbb)
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This is oscar's team. The three best players are still Frank's, but they are all ones of the caliber and style we will likely see in the future with oscar.
Hell no. Are you talking about Nino or Will. No no no no no no no no no no no no. If either of those guys are the third best player next year it would either take a colossal jump in talent or we will be in horrific condition.
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This is oscar's team. The three best players are still Frank's, but they are all ones of the caliber and style we will likely see in the future with oscar.
Hell no. Are you talking about Nino or Will. No no no no no no no no no no no no. If either of those guys are the third best player next year it would either take a colossal jump in talent or we will be in horrific condition.
I have seen nothing to indicate that we are not in horrific condition for next season. I think he was talking about Southwell, Gipson, and Will. Will may not crack the top 3, but he will be #1 in minutes, so it doesn't matter at all.
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I don't care if oscar has a young team next year. He doesn't get extra time for running off two juniors and a senior. If the players he is bringing in are worse than the players leaving early, he should get less time, not more.
And this will be a test of Currie's integrity. They floated the supposed mass exodus as a reason for needing to start over last season. If Currie is willing to admit to his misses he will evaluate oscar the way you propose.
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This is oscar's team. The three best players are still Frank's, but they are all ones of the caliber and style we will likely see in the future with oscar.
Hell no. Are you talking about Nino or Will. No no no no no no no no no no no no. If either of those guys are the third best player next year it would either take a colossal jump in talent or we will be in horrific condition.
I have seen nothing to indicate that we are not in horrific condition for next season. I think he was talking about Southwell, Gipson, and Will. Will may not crack the top 3, but he will be #1 in minutes, so it doesn't matter at all.
:goodbyecruelworld:
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Everyone gets what they want. Team #KingBruce gets the pg they hated off the team (and for a pg who hopefully plays the right way) and team #BID sees another part of the prophesy revealed. #KingBruce is assured at least 5 more years. #BID has ammo for days.
Oh and team #WishyWashy gets an excuse to refrain from judgement and team #TrollNoMatterWhat will keep on trucking by posting the most obviously "against-the-grain" (and painfully run into the ground) opinions to get reactions.
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Angel >>> any possible mass exodus
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Angel >>> any possible mass exodus
Agreed.
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hopefully angel enjoys being closer to home
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I want to cry
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Who could have guessed oscar was on teamburnitdown? The bastid. I'd like to smush a custid in that stupid looking mouth of his.
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Oh and team #WishyWashy gets an excuse to refrain from judgement
I'm pretty sure this is me and I've said several times now if anything this only makes judgement more clear, at least for me. Things should be pretty clear by the end of year 3 and very clear by the end of year 4. This is a good thing IMO.
And I get the "oscar is already what he is" thought process and for the most part that's true. But I'm still going to judge him on what he does at K-State, because its still a different league and a different enough situation that he could have more success (or failure) than he did in his last job. That is what will get him fired or allow him to stay here. That's been my stand from the start.
Sincerely,
#teamfence
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fan in a worse case scenario, how long do you give a coach? I'm not saying that scenario has anything to do with ncaa issues, player misconduct, or coach misconduct. But the program is completely falling apart, not winning games, not recruiting D1 players, the perfect storm of Wooly and Asbury coaching.
Am I wrong that your minimum for oscar is 4 years before a decision should/could be made?
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fan in a worse case scenario, how long do you give a coach? I'm not saying that scenario has anything to do with ncaa issues, player misconduct, or coach misconduct. But the program is completely falling apart, not winning games, not recruiting D1 players, the perfect storm of Wooly and Asbury coaching.
Am I wrong that your minimum for oscar is 4 years before a decision should/could be made?
No, if the next 2 years are complete disasters, then a move could be made after year 3. See Ron Prince.
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And I get the "oscar is already what he is" thought process and for the most part that's true. But I'm still going to judge him on what he does at K-State, because its still a different league and a different enough situation that he could have more success (or failure) than he did in his last job. That is what will get him fired or allow him to stay here. That's been my stand from the start.
Sincerely,
#teamfence
are the jobs REALLY that different? What are the differences that could lead to more success than he had at Illinois?
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The worst case scenario is two years of mediocrity followed by a crappy year or two. oscar failing teribbly the next two years is "best" case, imo.
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if only we had multiple more data points and three more years of eFG numbers to crunch then i could plug it into a formula that might possibly allow me to maybe sort of slightly lean one way or the other on this. beep boo bop bo beep bootcfg ansi.sys command defrag.
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If we don't finish top 3 or 4 next year it is a disaster
If we don't finish top 3 or 4 the following year it is a disaster.
The big 12 is complete garbage, he runs off an all big 12 player and a guy that would break some of Pullen's records. I'm not changing my expectations. If he loses these kids he's got to deal with it.
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oscar will be here for a long time. He's Currie's guy. I can't see any scenario that oscar gets fired short of a major scandel. So someone start digging.
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anyone else heard rumors of oscar asking angel to see his green card?
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fan in a worse case scenario, how long do you give a coach? I'm not saying that scenario has anything to do with ncaa issues, player misconduct, or coach misconduct. But the program is completely falling apart, not winning games, not recruiting D1 players, the perfect storm of Wooly and Asbury coaching.
Am I wrong that your minimum for oscar is 4 years before a decision should/could be made?
No, if the next 2 years are complete disasters, then a move could be made after year 3. See Ron Prince.
What if Year 2 is meh and Year 3 is disastrous? Do you give him a 4th?
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fan in a worse case scenario, how long do you give a coach? I'm not saying that scenario has anything to do with ncaa issues, player misconduct, or coach misconduct. But the program is completely falling apart, not winning games, not recruiting D1 players, the perfect storm of Wooly and Asbury coaching.
Am I wrong that your minimum for oscar is 4 years before a decision should/could be made?
No, if the next 2 years are complete disasters, then a move could be made after year 3. See Ron Prince.
What if Year 2 is meh and Year 3 is disastrous? Do you give him a 4th?
Shouldn't we be expecting the opposite? Disastrous year 2 (no/fresman PG, no shot blocker), meh year 3, 4, 5, 6, retirement. Basketball head hired as replacement.
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fan in a worse case scenario, how long do you give a coach? I'm not saying that scenario has anything to do with ncaa issues, player misconduct, or coach misconduct. But the program is completely falling apart, not winning games, not recruiting D1 players, the perfect storm of Wooly and Asbury coaching.
Am I wrong that your minimum for oscar is 4 years before a decision should/could be made?
No, if the next 2 years are complete disasters, then a move could be made after year 3. See Ron Prince.
What if Year 2 is meh and Year 3 is disastrous? Do you give him a 4th?
Shouldn't we be expecting the opposite? Disastrous year 2 (no/fresman PG, no shot blocker), meh year 3, 4, 5, 6, retirement. Basketball head hired as replacement.
It's not about what I expect; I was asking what _FAN would expect under that scenario.
If Year 2 is disastrous, I would fire him then. No Year 3.
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I fully expect for next year to be meh, only because the big 12 will be dog shlt. 14 will be meh at best depending on the rest of the big 12.
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13/14 - miss NIT
14/15 - NIT
If he has these results the next two years, he gets a 3rd. EMAW Hoops Everyone!
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13/14 - miss NIT
14/15 - NIT
If he has these results the next two years, he gets a 3rd. EMAW Hoops Everyone!
The first time we miss the NCAAs, and oscar doesn't get fired, that Currie billboard is goin' up.
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What if Year 2 is meh and Year 3 is disastrous? Do you give him a 4th?
Shouldn't we be expecting the opposite? Disastrous year 2 (no/fresman PG, no shot blocker), meh year 3, 4, 5, 6, retirement. Basketball head hired as replacement.
It's not about what I expect; I was asking what _FAN would expect under that scenario.
If Year 2 is disastrous, I would fire him then. No Year 3.
I've been wrong plenty of times, but I try to keep my speculations realistic.
Everyone knows that even if next year is a disaster, he's not going to get fired. It would take 2 consecutive disaster years to fire oscar at this point. A meh next year followed by a disaster in year 3 will likely get him a very hot seat in year 4.
One of my points in this thread is that with Angel, oscar was going to probably get at least 5 more years at minimum. IMO, losing Angel brings that minimum to 4 years, maybe 3 if the back to back disaster season scenario takes place. But IMO, 3 straight years of meh and he's on a very hot seat, if not gone.
FYI, IMO a meh season means NIT/bubblish season. Disaster = typical sub .500 Woolyish season with absolute disaster = TA's final season.
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:dubious: The NIT is a disaster.
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What if Year 2 is meh and Year 3 is disastrous? Do you give him a 4th?
Shouldn't we be expecting the opposite? Disastrous year 2 (no/fresman PG, no shot blocker), meh year 3, 4, 5, 6, retirement. Basketball head hired as replacement.
It's not about what I expect; I was asking what _FAN would expect under that scenario.
If Year 2 is disastrous, I would fire him then. No Year 3.
I've been wrong plenty of times, but I try to keep my speculations realistic.
Everyone knows that even if next year is a disaster, he's not going to get fired. It would take 2 consecutive disaster years to fire oscar at this point. A meh next year followed by a disaster in year 3 will likely get him a very hot seat in year 4.
One of my points in this thread is that with Angel, oscar was going to probably get at least 5 more years at minimum. IMO, losing Angel brings that minimum to 4 years, maybe 3 if the back to back disaster season scenario takes place. But IMO, 3 straight years of meh and he's on a very hot seat, if not gone.
FYI, IMO a meh season means NIT/bubblish season. Disaster = typical sub .500 Woolyish season with absolute disaster = TA's final season.
I think a firm NIT season now = a sub .500 Wooly season 7 years ago
Maybe that's not fair. who knows.
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What if oscar/Lowry know what they're doing? What if Chester Frazier handpicked Jevon Thomas and Nigel Johnson and believes that these two guys have the potential to be really good players?
K-State fans have a right to be upset about Angel leaving, but after thinking about things a little bit, I'm not sure that this loss will be as devastating as it seems. Angel is a really good player, and it always sucks losing good players, but Angel did have moments where he was out-matched athletically and times when he didn't take care of the ball. Look at his stat line from the LaSalle game and tell me that he didn't piss down his pants that day:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306)
(36 minutes, 0-6 fg, 4:3 a/to, 2 stl, 2 pts)
To tell you the truth, I don't think oscar and co. are all that upset that Angel is transferring. K-State's bread and butter next year will be Southwell and Gipson, and honestly, that's a pretty damn good one/two punch. K-State's task will be finding an inside presence on defense (maybe DJamer/Neville Fincher?) and a reliable starting point guard. When it's all said and done, I think at least one of Jevon Thomas/Nigel Johnson will end up being a really good player for K-State. As for the rest of the roster, Nino Williams will be improved. Westicles/Foster could make an impact... we'll see. The '13 recruiting class for K-State is really just a big question mark. These kids aren't highly ranked or anything like that, but they still seem like guys who could be impact players at a mid major program, and maybe that's what Weber needs. Eventually Weber will have to land a top 50-75 prospect, but right now the program looks like it will have enough talent to at least make the NCAA tourney.
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Look at beems, setting us up for the kill.
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What if oscar/Lowry know what they're doing? What if Chester Frazier handpicked Jevon Thomas and Nigel Johnson and believes that these two guys have the potential to be really good players?
K-State fans have a right to be upset about Angel leaving, but after thinking about things a little bit, I'm not sure that this loss will be as devastating as it seems. Angel is a really good player, and it always sucks losing good players, but Angel did have moments where he was out-matched athletically and times when he didn't take care of the ball. Look at his stat line from the LaSalle game and tell me that he didn't piss down his pants that day:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306)
(36 minutes, 0-6 fg, 4:3 a/to, 2 stl, 2 pts)
To tell you the truth, I don't think oscar and co. are all that upset that Angel is transferring. K-State's bread and butter next year will be Southwell and Gipson, and honestly, that's a pretty damn good one/two punch. K-State's task will be finding an inside presence on defense (maybe DJamer/Neville Fincher?) and a reliable starting point guard. When it's all said and done, I think at least one of Jevon Thomas/Nigel Johnson will end up being a really good player for K-State. As for the rest of the roster, Nino Williams will be improved. Westicles/Foster could make an impact... we'll see. The '13 recruiting class for K-State is really just a big question mark. These kids aren't highly ranked or anything like that, but they still seem like guys who could be impact players at a mid major program, and maybe that's what Weber needs. Eventually Weber will have to land a top 50-75 prospect, but right now the program looks like it will have enough talent to at least make the NCAA tourney.
Thanks beems.
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What if oscar/Lowry know what they're doing? What if Chester Frazier handpicked Jevon Thomas and Nigel Johnson and believes that these two guys have the potential to be really good players?
K-State fans have a right to be upset about Angel leaving, but after thinking about things a little bit, I'm not sure that this loss will be as devastating as it seems. Angel is a really good player, and it always sucks losing good players, but Angel did have moments where he was out-matched athletically and times when he didn't take care of the ball. Look at his stat line from the LaSalle game and tell me that he didn't piss down his pants that day:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306)
(36 minutes, 0-6 fg, 4:3 a/to, 2 stl, 2 pts)
To tell you the truth, I don't think oscar and co. are all that upset that Angel is transferring. K-State's bread and butter next year will be Southwell and Gipson, and honestly, that's a pretty damn good one/two punch. K-State's task will be finding an inside presence on defense (maybe DJamer/Neville Fincher?) and a reliable starting point guard. When it's all said and done, I think at least one of Jevon Thomas/Nigel Johnson will end up being a really good player for K-State. As for the rest of the roster, Nino Williams will be improved. Westicles/Foster could make an impact... we'll see. The '13 recruiting class for K-State is really just a big question mark. These kids aren't highly ranked or anything like that, but they still seem like guys who could be impact players at a mid major program, and maybe that's what Weber needs. Eventually Weber will have to land a top 50-75 prospect, but right now the program looks like it will have enough talent to at least make the NCAA tourney.
:D
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What if oscar/Lowry know what they're doing? What if Chester Frazier handpicked Jevon Thomas and Nigel Johnson and believes that these two guys have the potential to be really good players?
K-State fans have a right to be upset about Angel leaving, but after thinking about things a little bit, I'm not sure that this loss will be as devastating as it seems. Angel is a really good player, and it always sucks losing good players, but Angel did have moments where he was out-matched athletically and times when he didn't take care of the ball. Look at his stat line from the LaSalle game and tell me that he didn't piss down his pants that day:
http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306 (http://espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=330812306)
(36 minutes, 0-6 fg, 4:3 a/to, 2 stl, 2 pts)
To tell you the truth, I don't think oscar and co. are all that upset that Angel is transferring. K-State's bread and butter next year will be Southwell and Gipson, and honestly, that's a pretty damn good one/two punch. K-State's task will be finding an inside presence on defense (maybe DJamer/Neville Fincher?) and a reliable starting point guard. When it's all said and done, I think at least one of Jevon Thomas/Nigel Johnson will end up being a really good player for K-State. As for the rest of the roster, Nino Williams will be improved. Westicles/Foster could make an impact... we'll see. The '13 recruiting class for K-State is really just a big question mark. These kids aren't highly ranked or anything like that, but they still seem like guys who could be impact players at a mid major program, and maybe that's what Weber needs. Eventually Weber will have to land a top 50-75 prospect, but right now the program looks like it will have enough talent to at least make the NCAA tourney.
:D
This is the Dee Brown/Chester Frazier transition all over again, isn't it?
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Beems is getting damn good at the Jedi mind trick. Unfortunately most of the fanbase will buy this crap and we will be stuck with 10 shitty years of oscar. I'm so rough ridin' pissed right now.
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Beems is getting damn good at the Jedi mind trick. Unfortunately most of the fanbase will buy this crap and we will be stuck with 10 shitty years of oscar. I'm so rough ridin' pissed right now.
They aren't going to buy that crap because of what beems posted, yoman.
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Beems is getting damn good at the Jedi mind trick. Unfortunately most of the fanbase will buy this crap and we will be stuck with 10 shitty years of oscar. I'm so rough ridin' pissed right now.
They aren't going to buy that crap because of what beems posted, yoman.
Wasn't well stated, but I more meant that the content in his post will be the overall attitude of the tuck majority. Not because of what he posted bit because that is the type of crap the tucks believe.
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I've always thought that a conference championship buys a coach a minimum of five more years. (Ten for a natoonal championship.)
Gene Chizick agree's
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Seriously, he needs to make it this season. I mean, he just let an ncaa game or three walk out the door.
Prior to Angel leaving I thought he needed to win a tournament game in order to stay off the hot seat next season, now w/o angel I think he needs to atleast reach the ncaa's. It's gonna be a close one ladies and gents :blindfold:
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beems, can you teach rough ridin' ljmhawk how to message board already? I mean, that was great.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
I think he can be mediocre and still coach. :dunno:
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
I think he can be mediocre and still coach. :dunno:
Also he is white. And losing to ku is accepted/happens almost all the time in basketball.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
I think he can be mediocre and still coach. :dunno:
So in other words, we drop from being slightly above mediocre during the Huggins/Martin/Weber 1st year . . . to just mediocre.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
I think he can be mediocre and still coach. :dunno:
So in other words, we drop from being slightly above mediocre during the Huggins/Martin/Weber 1st year . . . to just mediocre.
No, we'll be bad.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
I think he can be mediocre and still coach. :dunno:
Also he is white. And losing to ku is accepted/happens almost all the time in basketball.
What does being white have to do with anything catzacker?
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slightly OT: but FAN's meltdown threads have great meme potential. YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK, WEBER!
:thumbs:
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I don't see the Ron Prince comparison as an accurate one. Ron had a mediocre first season, less than mediocre 2nd season and a BAD third season. oscar had a very good first season.
Also, I would probably put money on Neville Fincher not qualifying.
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If we finish dead last in the conference next year then I will contend that a change is immediately necessary.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
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Ron had a very good first season compared to the previous two.
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Ron had a very good first season compared to the previous two.
We had two shitty years prior, but I think the expectations of the program were a little bit higher than a Texas bowl being a very good season.
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I don't see the Ron Prince comparison as an accurate one. Ron had a mediocre first season, less than mediocre 2nd season and a BAD third season. oscar had a very good first season.
Also, I would probably put money on Neville Fincher not qualifying.
Prep School, BRO.
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I don't see the Ron Prince comparison as an accurate one. Ron had a mediocre first season, less than mediocre 2nd season and a BAD third season. oscar had a very good first season.
Also, I would probably put money on Neville Fincher not qualifying.
Interesting the way you differentiate Ron's last two seasons
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I don't see the Ron Prince comparison as an accurate one. Ron had a mediocre first season, less than mediocre 2nd season and a BAD third season. oscar had a very good first season.
Also, I would probably put money on Neville Fincher not qualifying.
Interesting the way you differentiate Ron's last two seasons
Tougher schedule in year 2
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slightly OT: but FAN's meltdown threads have great meme potential. YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK, WEBER!
:thumbs:
TY.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
The program is bigger than one person, pissclams.
please call me back about the roofing job you were going to do
emaw
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
He was a massive part of it, but it wasn't a Larry Brown at SMU type of thing.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
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NOT A ROSE GARDEN!
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
No, but I never thought "holy crap, we are going to rough ridin' suck ass next year" under frank.
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SICK AND TIRED
so you better clean up your acts and quit pretending cuz that bar ain't bending
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
All coaches are self-serving douchebags (and yes Frank was a big one with a bad streak of paranoia and an inferiority complex). But Frank's self-serving douchebagyness built a brand that benefited KSU in more ways than it hurt.
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
No, but I never thought "holy crap, we are going to rough ridin' suck ass next year" under frank.
:dubious: After Beasley and walker left......
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I think what pisses me off the most about the transition from Frank to oscar is that under Frank, WE HAD A BRAND. We were an extremely marketable team. "Frank Martin Basketball" was something that you could get excited about. You knew that every season, regardless of who you lost, you would have a team that played hard, tough defense, and rebounded their faces off. I have absolutely no idea what kind of basketball we're going to see next year. oscar's offensive teams at Illinois were successful when they had good guard play. Without good guards, the wheels fell off. We do not have good guard play going into next year.
i'm so sick of people saying that we had a brand. we didn't have crap. frank has a brand. everything he did was to promote himself, not k-state.
You're right but he was Frank Martin, head coach of the Kansas State Wildcats. Purple, powercats, and swooshes everywhere.
agreed but it's important that people see frank for who/what he was and not romanticize some dream about him and us and we. call it a helpful dose of reality.
I think the OP realized it left with Frank. You just decided to turn it into a semantics argument.
whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
No, but I never thought "holy crap, we are going to rough ridin' suck ass next year" under frank.
:dubious: After Beasley and walker left......
If we go 9-7 in conference play next year, I'd be a little surprised.
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Big 12 is way way down next year. Get to play Tech, Wvu and TCU six times.
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Frank hurt 'clams. :frown: eff you, Frank! :shakesfist:
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Frank hurt 'clams. :frown: eff you, Frank! :shakesfist:
You just haven't been here long enough. Clams has always disliked Frank and his brand (ha!) of basketball.
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Frank hurt 'clams. :frown: eff you, Frank! :shakesfist:
You just haven't been here long enough. Clams has always disliked Frank and his brand (ha!) of basketball.
I'm not sure I can make any jokes about that.
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Big 12 is way way down next year. Get to play Tech, Wvu and TCU six times.
This team probably gets a win at the field house somehow.
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Big 12 is way way down next year. Get to play Tech, Wvu and TCU six times.
I would not be surprised if we go 3-3 vs those teams and I will eat my hat if we go 5-1
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Big 12 is way way down next year. Get to play Tech, Wvu and TCU six times.
I would not be surprised if we go 3-3 vs those teams and I will eat my hat if we go 5-1
:dubious:
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whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
Shouldn't Frank and every other coach be self-servingk? Hell shouldn't every employee ever be self-serving? I mean we only care(d) about him because he was a beloved coach of our school, should we expect him to treat us any differently than a means to an end. Slandering him because he looked out for him and his family is so basic and such hypocritical bullshit. This was a job to him and no one should expect any coach or player for that matter to feel any differently.
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Big 12 is way way down next year. Get to play Tech, Wvu and TCU six times.
Yeah, but everyone else gets to play K-State twice.
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Quality of wins is going to be K-state issue next year. Not the amount, I don't think wining 10 conference game is out of reach. W: 2 X Tech, 2 X TCU, 2 X WVU, Texas, ISU, OU, Baylor are all winnable.
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whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
Shouldn't Frank and every other coach be self-servingk? Hell shouldn't every employee ever be self-serving? I mean we only care(d) about him because he was a beloved coach of our school, should we expect him to treat us any differently than a means to an end. Slandering him because he looked out for him and his family is so basic and such hypocritical bullshit. This was a job to him and no one should expect any coach or player for that matter to feel any differently.
yes. they should all be. we all should be. you missed the point. don't pick the low hanging fruit and try a little harder next time. no one is slandering him because he looked out for him and his family.
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Quality of wins is going to be K-state issue next year. Not the amount, I don't think wining 10 conference game is out of reach. W: 2 X Tech, 2 X TCU, 2 X WVU, Texas, ISU, OU, Baylor are all winnable.
The Big 12 looks pretty bad, could be a 3 bid league.
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Frank hurt 'clams. :frown: eff you, Frank! :shakesfist:
You just haven't been here long enough. Clams has always disliked Frank and his brand (ha!) of basketball.
FRANK BUILT US A BRAND, MAN! WE LAID IT ON THE LINE TOGETHER! gmafb.
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#memelol
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#doberman
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#purplepalace
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#payfrank
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#buyinorquit
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#jorts
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#how#about#playing#a#little#defense,#ever#heard#of#that#one,#stan? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVY-BE2AuN4)
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whether or not he realized it left with frank has nothing to do with the realization that frank is a self-serving douchebag. i'm quite sure there's a lot of folks here that won't accept that, if that's semantics, cool. things here under frank weren't the rough ridin' rose garden that people like to pretend they were.
Shouldn't Frank and every other coach be self-servingk? Hell shouldn't every employee ever be self-serving? I mean we only care(d) about him because he was a beloved coach of our school, should we expect him to treat us any differently than a means to an end. Slandering him because he looked out for him and his family is so basic and such hypocritical bullshit. This was a job to him and no one should expect any coach or player for that matter to feel any differently.
yes. they should all be. we all should be. you missed the point. don't pick the low hanging fruit and try a little harder next time. no one is slandering him because he looked out for him and his family.
How else should I take your assessment of Frank being a self-serving douchebag?
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#selfish
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frank wasn't a self serving douche bag, he was an angel, a saint, and the greatest basketball coach the game has ever known. his undefeated record at Kansas state speaks for itself and we will never again be graced with a coach of his caliber.
with frank we lived a dream.
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The Big 12 looks pretty bad, could be a 3 bid league.
this post did not go unnoticed, _FAN :thumbs:
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#hyperbole
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frank wasn't a self serving douche bag, he was an angel, a saint, and the greatest basketball coach the game has ever known. his undefeated record at Kansas state speaks for itself and we will never again be graced with a coach of his caliber.
with frank we lived a dream.
:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:
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Quality of wins is going to be K-state issue next year. Not the amount, I don't think wining 10 conference game is out of reach. W: 2 X Tech, 2 X TCU, 2 X WVU, Texas, ISU, OU, Baylor are all winnable.
I'll bet you anything you want right now that we don't go 6-0 against Tech, TCU, and WVU. I would have made the same bet even if we still had Angel. TCU was crazy old but that may be a good thing. Their best player, Kyan Anderson, will be a junior. We will get a look at former 'cruit Aaron Durley with TCU next year as well.
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frank wasn't a self serving douche bag, he was an angel, a saint, and the greatest basketball coach the game has ever known. his undefeated record at Kansas state speaks for itself and we will never again be graced with a coach of his caliber.
with frank we lived a dream.
It was a pretty straightforward question, was it not? I'm really not interested in "message boarding" so if this is what this is going to be don't bother responding.
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Quality of wins is going to be K-state issue next year. Not the amount, I don't think wining 10 conference game is out of reach. W: 2 X Tech, 2 X TCU, 2 X WVU, Texas, ISU, OU, Baylor are all winnable.
I'll bet you anything you want right now that we don't go 6-0 against Tech, TCU, and WVU. I would have made the same bet even if we still had Angel. TCU was crazy old but that may be a good thing. Their best player, Kyan Anderson, will be a junior. We will get a look at former 'cruit Aaron Durley with TCU next year as well.
Would agree, also think stealing games from top half teams next year is going to be easier than years past with the youth of the league.
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TICK TOCK oscar [redacted]
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if we play our cards right, maybe we can get frank back.
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
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if we play our cards right, maybe we can get frank back.
Doubtful.
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
it wasn't his fault.
#ticktock
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
So you're disloyal if you don't stay at your job forever and ever? Interesting. I'd guess a grand majority of people consider themselves loyal to their job/employer but would leave if circumstances merited doing so. I suppose its fair to hold basketball coaches to a grander standard than such careers as doctors, teachers, and clergy.
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
So you're disloyal if you don't stay at your job forever and ever? Interesting. I'd guess a grand majority of people consider themselves loyal to their job/employer but would leave if circumstances merited doing so. I suppose its fair to hold basketball coaches to a grander standard than such careers as doctors, teachers, and clergy.
I'm really not interested in "message boarding" so if this is what this is going to be don't bother responding.
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who will emerge as the alpha male?
stay tuned to BIG DAWGS brought to you by truck nutz
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Until we start doing illegal things we will never compete with the big dogs
Well said. You ain't cheating then you ain't trying!
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
I think you are discounting how bizarre the the Jamar receipt thing was. No coach with options is going to take that especially if he already has a strained relationship with his AD.
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And no coach with options SHOULD take that, either.
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i liked when Frank talked about loyalty and how when the going gets tough the tough gets going, except when your boss annoys the crap out of you.
So you're disloyal if you don't stay at your job forever and ever? Interesting. I'd guess a grand majority of people consider themselves loyal to their job/employer but would leave if circumstances merited doing so. I suppose its fair to hold basketball coaches to a grander standard than such careers as doctors, teachers, and clergy.
That's not what I'm saying. And Frank isn't some random guy. Frank's a guy who spoke ad nauseum about the merits of loyalty and overcoming adversity and so on. But he seemed to become pretty self-interested when the circumstances merited doing so. I don't blame him for leaving at all. He had to make a move that was best for him and I understand that and I also understand what a pain in the ass it had to be working under Currie.
I just find the whole ordeal kind of funny in hindsight, given his unique devotion to talking about the importance of loyalty. Of course I don't think coaches should be held to a higher standard, but if any teacher told me every chance he got how important loyalty is, and then had a huge disagreement with the principle and left shortly after, I'd probably bring up the whole loyalty thing to some of my friends and we'd all have a short laugh about it.
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There wasn't a disagreement and he left shortly thereafter, they had issues the entire time Currie was here. The first six months alone had Frank being left out of Currie's extension handouts, Frank being forced to apologize after the Oregon game and Currie very publicly sitting right behind Frank after the Oregon game and taking notes. Here's where someone should post the shop/gif/emoticon of Currie leering from behind the newspaper. So no this was far from an isolated argument about Dillon's trashcans and then bolting to USC. Would he fit your standard for loyalty if he left and it wasn't after a highly publicized disagreement with his boss?
Either way Frank not meeting someone elses definition of loyal doesn't make him disloyal IMO. If that were the case I suppose we'd all be disloyal to some extent.
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There wasn't a disagreement and he left shortly thereafter, they had issues the entire time Currie was here. The first six months alone had Frank being left out of Currie's extension handouts, Frank being forced to apologize after the Oregon game and Currie very publicly sitting right behind Frank after the Oregon game and taking notes. Here's where someone should post the shop/gif/emoticon of Currie leering from behind the newspaper. So no this was far from an isolated argument about Dillon's trashcans and then bolting to USC. Would he fit your standard for loyalty if he left and it wasn't after a highly publicized disagreement with his boss?
Either way Frank not meeting someone elses definition of loyal doesn't make him disloyal IMO. If that were the case I suppose we'd all be disloyal to some extent.
Agreed.
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There wasn't a disagreement and he left shortly thereafter, they had issues the entire time Currie was here. The first six months alone had Frank being left out of Currie's extension handouts, Frank being forced to apologize after the Oregon game and Currie very publicly sitting right behind Frank after the Oregon game and taking notes. Here's where someone should post the shop/gif/emoticon of Currie leering from behind the newspaper. So no this was far from an isolated argument about Dillon's trashcans and then bolting to USC. Would he fit your standard for loyalty if he left and it wasn't after a highly publicized disagreement with his boss?
Either way Frank not meeting someone elses definition of loyal doesn't make him disloyal IMO. If that were the case I suppose we'd all be disloyal to some extent.
Listen, I think I must be doing a poor job of expressing what I'm trying to say.
I'm not trying to make some "frank is a big bad person and i hated him." i liked frank. i just think his "loyalty, loyalty, loyalty," stuff is funny given his and the AD's inability to get along with one another and him leaving to go to South Carolina. Maybe the observation is not funny at all. Who knows.
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There wasn't a disagreement and he left shortly thereafter, they had issues the entire time Currie was here. The first six months alone had Frank being left out of Currie's extension handouts, Frank being forced to apologize after the Oregon game and Currie very publicly sitting right behind Frank after the Oregon game and taking notes. Here's where someone should post the shop/gif/emoticon of Currie leering from behind the newspaper. So no this was far from an isolated argument about Dillon's trashcans and then bolting to USC. Would he fit your standard for loyalty if he left and it wasn't after a highly publicized disagreement with his boss?
Either way Frank not meeting someone elses definition of loyal doesn't make him disloyal IMO. If that were the case I suppose we'd all be disloyal to some extent.
hilarious.
listen dlew, frank not meeting your definition of disloyal doesn't make him disloyal according to my definition.
now if there's anything else you want to discuss, let's just hash it out right here and i'll tell you you're wrong and we can be done with it.
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Are there people out there who believed that Frank Martin deserved yet another pay raise from K-State?
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does it matter?
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does it matter?
I responded in another thread . . . sure it matters, when you start tossing out things like that, I'd like to know who those "people of influence" are, and I got my answer, he was just throwing crap at the wall seeing if it would stick, per usual.
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No raise. He was grossly overpaid for what he did.
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There wasn't a disagreement and he left shortly thereafter, they had issues the entire time Currie was here. The first six months alone had Frank being left out of Currie's extension handouts, Frank being forced to apologize after the Oregon game and Currie very publicly sitting right behind Frank after the Oregon game and taking notes. Here's where someone should post the shop/gif/emoticon of Currie leering from behind the newspaper. So no this was far from an isolated argument about Dillon's trashcans and then bolting to USC.
technically he wasn't left out. he was just insulted by the paltry cola raise that was offered, mushed currie and then went on a run that eventually ended up in the elite 8 and forced currie to offer him an actual raise and renegotiate the contract. frank won that battle. lost the war, but won that. agree with the rest.
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#ticktock
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I foresee a Jim Woolridge-type sixth year coming up soon.
No. Currie has his annoying traits, but he isn't nearly as dumb as whoever our AD was then.
Oh man.
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Oh boy.
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Oh boy.
Don't feel bad, it was only a matter of time.
slightly OT: but FAN's meltdown threads have great meme potential. YOU'RE ON THE CLOCK, WEBER!
:thumbs:
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
:frown:
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What a world we live in guys :frown:
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Why do only dufus cats are the ones that really have 9 lives?
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
:frown:
oscar is amazing at being just good enough to not get fired. A true tightrope walker.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
:frown:
oscar is amazing at being just good enough to not get fired. A true tightrope walker.
Exactly .500 across 2 P5 leagues over 12 years is the definition of this. 106-106. Amazing really.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
:frown:
oscar is amazing at being just good enough to not get fired. A true tightrope walker.
Exactly .500 across 2 P5 leagues over 12 years is the definition of this. 106-106. Amazing really.
But he got fired from his other P5 job for having a season similar to his last two? He's not walking a tightrope he lucked into John Currie.
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A hearty :lol: at anyone who thinks oscar can suck but will still be coaching at K-State for a long time.
Jon Wefald left the building a long time ago kids.
:frown:
oscar is amazing at being just good enough to not get fired. A true tightrope walker.
Exactly .500 across 2 P5 leagues over 12 years is the definition of this. 106-106. Amazing really.
But he got fired from his other P5 job for having a season similar to his last two? He's not walking a tightrope he lucked into John Currie.
k-state