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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: AndrewVonLintel on March 22, 2013, 06:57:19 PM
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oscar Weber and the Wildcats squandered a golden opportunity to make a nice run in the Big Dance.
The Good
Jordan Henriquez was an incredibly great mismatch and we got a lot out of it. 12 Rebounds, 17 points, 5 Blocks, 2 turnovers, 3 fouls on 28 minutes!!!!!!
Shane Southwell was 7-10 from the field and was the obvious hot shooter of the day (obvious to all except for Angel and oscar). Put him down for 17 points, 4 rebounds, and assist, a steal, a block and 1 turnover in 38 minutes.
We only had 9 turnovers and outrebounded them by 4.
The Bad :bang:
This was truly one of the worst coaching performances I have ever seen. We should have won the game by 20 even with Rodney and Angel having bad games. Shane was Hot, JO was hot and there were likely one or two guys on the bench that could have been hot but we will never know.
We only forced LaSalle into 8 turnovers. DJamer didn't play :curse:. Nino only played 2 minutes :bawl:. Diaz none :facepalm: and Omari none :dubious:. When you are playing that bad in the first half you have to try different things. Different players and/or different defenses. Our bench was left on the bench and it is the most important part of this years success. We won most of our games because somebody randomly would step up and be ready to play bball. You try things and some will fail but some may work and the momentum may change.
Angel had a horrible game and played 36 (Reminder I love Angel but you can't let any member of the team play that bad and get 36 minutes when other reasonable options are available). :sdeek:
The 2-3 Zone would have prevented LaSalles easy buckets and given JO more energy to play more minutes, which we needed from him today. More minutes and more targets. LaSalle only played 7 people (just like us) and we never went with the two post lineup. Diaz and JO could have torn them up on offense and then played zone on defense. The rim would have been protected and we force them to shoot threes. We should have fouled out 2 or three of their players and COASTED to a victory. :driving:
The Ugly
4 Seed at Bramlage East loses to a staggeringly inferior team and some people are waking up to the realization that we hired a really bad basketball coach.
:horrorsurprise:
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BTW, your input is welcome here. We won't call you a squawk, unless you're a squawk!!! :shakesfist:
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Pretty good post.
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why work on having a zone defense when you can spend time practicing jumpshots and super awesome plays?
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Some excellent points.
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I love you, Andrew. Please give me a great big hug :bawl:
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why work on having a zone defense when you can spend time practicing jumpshots and super awesome plays?
biggest coaching flaw of the year. We played 99.9% of the year in man defense and or soft full court trap in to man. I would say 100%, but I am leaving open the possibility that I missed something.
This hurt us because we did not play well at all against zone unless we just hit threes and because we never had a second option when we weren't playing well to try and break up a run.
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Weber clearly outcoached his opponent in 2nd half. Clearly.
LaSalle was unconscious in first half. Weber made some nice adjustments. You missed too many FT to make up the ground you needed.
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Weber clearly outcoached his opponent in 2nd half. Clearly.
LaSalle was unconscious in first half. Weber made some nice adjustments. You missed too many FT to make up the ground you needed.
the fact that we had to adjust to anything was baffling
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Weber clearly outcoached his opponent in 2nd half. Clearly.
LaSalle was unconscious in first half. Weber made some nice adjustments. You missed too many FT to make up the ground you needed.
the fact that we had to adjust to anything was baffling
Yup. It happens, people go nuts. Georgetown agrees.
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The white guys on Florida Gulf Coast are beasting out
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Starting Spradling. Why the eff would you do that? Obviously horrible matchup against LaSalle's speed and let them get off to a quick start.
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FGCU has been playing with ridiculous offensive efficiency all year.
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Weber clearly outcoached his opponent in 2nd half. Clearly.
LaSalle was unconscious in first half. Weber made some nice adjustments. You missed too many FT to make up the ground you needed.
Weber's major adjustment was to stop benching his 7 footer when the only post player on La Salle is just 6'6". I'm not going to give him credit for taking 20 minutes to figure that out.
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good, me masturbatuing in the bathroom,
bad
sutpid rough ridin' crap everywehre
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Pretty good post.
true
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good, me masturbatuing in the bathroom,
bad
sutpid rough ridin' crap everywehre
Ya no we hava spell checker. :lol:
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with the caveat that i didn't see the game, so i don't know if some players weren't playing hard, it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to remove a better player for a worse one without a reason. the better player not playing well is not a reason unless there is an identifiable reason that the better player is playing poorly (like he's hurt or not playing hard).
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with the caveat that i didn't see the game, so i don't know if some players weren't playing hard, it's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) to remove a better player for a worse one without a reason. the better player not playing well is not a reason unless there is an identifiable reason that the better player is playing poorly (like he's hurt or not playing hard).
I am not saying that Rodney and Angel should have been benched but they played 76 minutes and JO was much more effective than them. I would love to have seen Diaz come in at 4 with JO at 5 and then Southwell play 3 for a spell.
It would mean Shane gets more of the outside shots and Diaz and JO can try to foul out a small, undeep LaSalle team. The first half looked like crap so I don't think it would have killed us to take a look at it for a couple of possessions.
Putting two Bigs out there at once multiplies the problems for a very small team. Their best big has to guard JO and then the question is who guards Diaz?
Dunk City!!!!
:dance:
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It would mean that our offense would completely self destruct. Running a motion with two bigs that don't play motion together at the same time, for the first time in an NCAA game, would be dumb. Especially for Diaz who doesn't seem to fully grasp the offense for the position he actually is supposed to play.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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am i remembering correctly that "free throws don't matter" is a goEMAW talking point? well if so, those people can eff off.
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am i remembering correctly that "free throws don't matter" is a goEMAW talking point? well if so, those people can eff off.
well, the reward for improving at free throws isn't all that great. if K-State shot 73% instead of 68% this year that would be like 1 more point per game. still, free throws are too easy for anyone to be bad at imo
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FT % doesn't matter. FT Rate does.
But because oscar values a 15 footer over attacking the rim, he limits the rate at which FT's will be shot and therefore, stupidly, puts more pressure on the limited amount of times you get at the line.
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ex.
Team A shoots 90% from the line but gets 10 attempts (9/10)
Team B shoots 70% from the line but gets 20 attempts (14/20)
which is more valueable?
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If oscar's studly offense prevents us from ever taking advantage of small lineups than to hell with it.
Just run high low and the weave and actually win the game.
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Also, oscar should have attacked #25 as soon as he came back in. If he'd fouled out, we would have won by 10+ we owned the paint when he went to the bench.
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FT % doesn't matter. FT Rate does.
But because oscar values a 15 footer over attacking the rim, he limits the rate at which FT's will be shot and therefore, stupidly, puts more pressure on the limited amount of times you get at the line.
99% of the time it doesn't, but when your FT rate is within 5% of your opponent and you shoot 35% worse its a legit factor in why you lost by 2.
Again, many more factors to why we lost, but you can't just dismiss FT% from yesterday's game. We had several opportunities to stretch our lead at the FT line in the 2nd half and we didn't and it was pretty much the only way La Salle was scoring.
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ex.
Team A shoots 90% from the line but gets 10 attempts (9/10)
Team B shoots 70% from the line but gets 20 attempts (14/20)
which is more valueable?
what if on 2 of the possessions where team A didn't shoot FT's, they got a 3 and a 2. which team is more valuable?
i'm not getting into this discussion, in the grand scheme of things you're probably right. but yesterday one team made free throws and the other made significantly less, with more attempts. so eff us.
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Also, oscar should have attacked #25 as soon as he came back in. If he'd fouled out, we would have won by 10+ we owned the paint when he went to the bench.
i definitely agree with this.
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ex.
Team A shoots 90% from the line but gets 10 attempts (9/10)
Team B shoots 70% from the line but gets 20 attempts (14/20)
which is more valueable?
zacker everyone gets this, but everyone also gets that when given 20 free throws, making 15 is better than making 14. As you and I have both said, improving at FT% won't make a gigantic difference for your team, but improving at FT% can add 1-2ppg over the course of a season. FT% is the easiest thing in all of sports and no one should be bad at it.
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FT % doesn't matter. FT Rate does.
But because oscar values a 15 footer over attacking the rim, he limits the rate at which FT's will be shot and therefore, stupidly, puts more pressure on the limited amount of times you get at the line.
99% of the time it doesn't, but when your FT rate is within 5% of your opponent and you shoot 35% worse its a legit factor in why you lost by 2.
Again, many more factors to why we lost, but you can't just dismiss FT% from yesterday's game. We had several opportunities to stretch our lead at the FT line in the 2nd half and we didn't and it was pretty much the only way La Salle was scoring.
I guess what I'm saying is, if you don't get to the line that often, FT% becomes relevant. If you get to the line often, FT Rate is far more relevant. Yesterday, the attempts were just about equal, so FT% becomes relevant. That being said, we shot 52.9% from FT.....so get 6 more attempts and we win.
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Also, LOL at the idea that FT's are what mumped us. I mean, the goddamn 9million ppp in the first half was what rough ridin' killed us.
We lost to rough ridin' LaSalle. La rough ridin' Salle. And we're going to spend time talking about FT's?
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Also, LOL at the idea that FT's are what mumped us. I mean, the goddamn 9million ppp in the first half was what rough ridin' killed us.
We lost to rough ridin' LaSalle. La rough ridin' Salle. And we're going to spend time talking about FT's?
oh man.
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Also, LOL at the idea that FT's are what mumped us. I mean, the goddamn 9million ppp in the first half was what rough ridin' killed us.
We lost to rough ridin' LaSalle. La rough ridin' Salle. And we're going to spend time talking about FT's?
there's plenty of things to bitch about. free throws, particularly in the second half, is one of them.
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Also, LOL at the idea that FT's are what mumped us. I mean, the goddamn 9million ppp in the first half was what rough ridin' killed us.
We lost to rough ridin' LaSalle. La rough ridin' Salle. And we're going to spend time talking about FT's?
there's plenty of things to bitch about. free throws, particularly in the second half, is one of them.
yeah, and it's just about the last thing that should be on that list.
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ex.
Team A shoots 90% from the line but gets 10 attempts (9/10)
Team B shoots 70% from the line but gets 20 attempts (14/20)
which is more valueable?
what if on 2 of the possessions where team A didn't shoot FT's, they got a 3 and a 2. which team is more valuable?
This is a good point, and the simple answer is that for most players FT%>FG% and FTs are more efficient than FGs. However, this is not true for a player like JO(39%) and in his case free throws are much worse than FGs, especially when you consider that FT% is artificially inflated by missing the front end of a one-and-one. Statistically, JO shooting free throws is not a good outcome for an offensive possession.
edit: there are other, harder to quantify benefits that even terrible free throw shooters like JO get from FTR, like moving the team closer to double bonus and putting players in foul trouble. So, although JO shooting FTs may not be a great outcome those two factors make it less bad of an outcome. I am still of the opinion that FT% is too easy for anyone to be bad at.
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JO was 3-8. Everybody else combined for 6-9.
Stop complaining about FT%.
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it was a tie game with 30 seconds to go, correct? something like that anyway. in a game that close you can point to anything as the cause of the loss. to%, oboard, dboard, 2pt fg%, 3pt fg%, ft%, def fg%s, literally anything. yet it's always ft% with fans. a strange obsession.
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it was a tie game with 30 seconds to go, correct? something like that anyway. in a game that close you can point to anything as the cause of the loss. to%, oboard, dboard, 2pt fg%, 3pt fg%, ft%, def fg%s, literally anything. yet it's always ft% with fans. a strange obsession.
that's because it's easy to talk about how easy ft% should be. there is no randomness or opposition. just a single person not sucking at something. like, if your 5 year old son sucked at pissing in the toilet instead of pissing in his pants, i would point out that you should potty train him
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it was a tie game with 30 seconds to go, correct? something like that anyway. in a game that close you can point to anything as the cause of the loss. to%, oboard, dboard, 2pt fg%, 3pt fg%, ft%, def fg%s, literally anything. yet it's always ft% with fans. a strange obsession.
FWIW, I'd put 3PT% higher as well as terrible first half defense.
FT% only stuck out to me because 2PT% and FT rate ended up pretty similar. eFG% (-5%) and OR% (+13%) kind of balanced each other out.
The last 10 minutes, La Salle made one shot and went 9-10 from the FT line. We made 5 lay-ups/dunks and went 3-7 on FTs including a miss on a front end.
But yeah, it was just one thing of many in a close game that you can pick and choose from.
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it was a tie game with 30 seconds to go, correct? something like that anyway. in a game that close you can point to anything as the cause of the loss. to%, oboard, dboard, 2pt fg%, 3pt fg%, ft%, def fg%s, literally anything. yet it's always ft% with fans. a strange obsession.
Why do you insist on talking about the game if you didn't watch it?
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Why do you insist on talking about the game if you didn't watch it?
it's a pretty big topic at the moment. why shouldn't i discuss it?
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We did not do the things that won us 12 of 15 going into NCAA tourney
1) we were 4-13 from 3pt. That is 30.7%. We had been shooting almost 40%.
2) we were 9-17 on FTs. That is 52.9%. We had been shooting about 74%
3) we win TO% Dif. On ave we were about +3 in TOs per game. Against Lasalle we were -1
So make 1 more 3pt and 3 more FTs and we would have been close to what we had been doing (that is 6 more pts). And then instead of being +3 we are -1. That is 4 big possessions.
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We did not do the things that won us 12 of 15 going into NCAA tourney
1) we were 4-13 from 3pt. That is 30.7%. We had been shooting almost 40%.
2) we were 9-17 on FTs. That is 52.9%. We had been shooting about 74%
3) we win TO% Dif. On ave we were about +3 in TOs per game. Against Lasalle we were -1
So make 1 more 3pt and 3 more FTs and we would have been close to what we had been doing (that is 6 more pts). And then instead of being +3 we are -1. That is 4 big possessions.
:thumbs:
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It is true that if we would have bumped up any particular stat we would have won.
However it is important to note this wasn't Wichita State, Tubby Smith's Minnesota, or an athletic Oregon Team or even Ole Miss.
This was a giant turd that beat us because we can't game plan worth a damn and we were blind to the fact that JO and Shane were obviously the go to guys.
:cry:
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It is true that if we would have bumped up any particular stat we would have won.
However it is important to note this wasn't Wichita State, Tubby Smith's Minnesota, or an athletic Oregon Team or even Ole Miss.
This was a giant turd that beat us because we can't game plan worth a damn and we were blind to the fact that JO and Shane were obviously the go to guys.
:cry:
Meh, Angel had a crappy game and Rod struggled shooting the ball, but in crunch time i still want the ball in Angel's hands and i still want Rod taking the big shot. BB is a game of inches. Rod's 3 rattled in and out. His shot was at most an inch long (a lot of missed shots are off my a few inches)
We just did not execute on offense the final 7 minutes and a couple of uncharacteristic Angel TOs in 2nd hf were costly (both led to fast breaks where LaSalle got fouled and hit 4-4 FTs). LaSalle did nothing in the half court the 2nd half, so letting them get transistion pts was not a good thing
Rod had a fast break layup that he missed, Shane got the rebound, found Gip who missed a bunny layup to convert a possible 3 pt play. Gip only makes 1 of 2 FTs. Those are points we left on the court..... and with the game basicly tied from 7:05 mark to the :10 second mark of the 2nd half..... little things like that matter.
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The main problem was the crap-tacular defense in the first half. It was beyond awful and essentially forced us to play an almost perfect second half to just come back to fail at the end.
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The main problem was the crap-tacular defense in the first half. It was beyond awful and essentially forced us to play an almost perfect second half to just come back to fail at the end.
I agree, but not shooting 39% and turning it over on 1/4 of our possessions would've helped keep it much closer than 18 too. It was a terrible first half on offense and defense.
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The main problem was the crap-tacular defense in the first half. It was beyond awful and essentially forced us to play an almost perfect second half to just come back to fail at the end.
I agree, but not shooting 39% and turning it over on 1/4 of our possessions would've helped keep it much closer than 18 too. It was a terrible first half on offense and defense.
Yeah, in Lawrence we played a bad first half. KU had a 67.2 to 47.9 adv in shooting and KU was +3 in TOs
On Friday, LaSalle had a 67.7 to 39.6 adv. in shooting and LaSalle was +5 in TOs.
Just shows you how poor of a half we had in SC two days ago
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We got beat by a team that's already won 3 NCAA tournament games. I guess they must be super shitty and only played well because oscar is bad at coaching defense and free throwing.
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We got beat by a team that's already won 3 NCAA tournament games. I guess they must be super shitty and only played well because oscar is bad at coaching defense and free throwing.
relax. they've beaten another 13 and a 12 seed along with us. it's not outrageous to be pissed that we lost.
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I was really impressed with the adjustments we made at halftime. I specifically saw LaSalle run a couple plays in the second half that had worked in the first and our adjustments in switching assignments shut them down cold.
I'm also really upset we lost. I'm always angry when the Cats get upset by an inferior team. Usually it happens a few times a year, but this year it only happened once ... at a really noticeable time.
I still like what oscar showed me this year overall.