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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on February 28, 2013, 08:11:08 PM
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http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html
:D
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Good article.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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Sounds like two best friends holding hands at the top of the conference.
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Enjoyed that
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Not a trace of squawk anywhere to be found in that article.
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the author was a big winner with Frank leaving, it had to be a lot easier for him to do his job.
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"Coach is a savant"
Savant, you guys
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9am to midnight.
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"Coach is a savant"
Savant, you guys
chicken nuggets savant :dunno:
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! chicken nuggets! OMG deuce!
:flush:
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
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"Coach is a savant"
Savant, you guys
savant may explain some of oscar's mannerisms
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! chicken nuggets! OMG deuce!
:flush:
Steve Dave, why are you so mean :bawl:
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9am to midnight.
Left handed boner pills user outed!
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9am to midnight.
Left handed boner pills user outed!
Extremely high quality joke here, folks.
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I hate "regular" stats.
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I hate "regular" stats.
I've grown so accustomed to adv stats, that I forget that most people are still stupid. Like most people (Kellis in this article for one) think K-State is a great defensive team and a mediocre offensive team. Mindblowing.
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
yeah... but otherwise :D
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I hate "regular" stats.
I've grown so accustomed to adv stats, that I forget that most people are still stupid. Like most people (Kellis in this article for one) think K-State is a great defensive team and a mediocre offensive team. Mindblowing.
It really is. I don't know how you can watch more than two of our games and not look at those stats and realize something is wrong with them, mostly because of the offensive side.
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So Weber is Keady and Lowery is Weber?
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I mean, I don't even...
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So Weber is Keady and Lowery is Weber?
that is our best case, yes. hopefully Chet is our Painter
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So Weber is Keady and Lowery is Weber?
that is our best case, yes. hopefully Chet is our Painter
Cuonzo Martin :dubious:
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So Weber is Keady and Lowery is Weber?
that is our best case, yes. hopefully Chet is our Painter
Cuonzo Martin :dubious:
I think AB3 would be Cuonzo
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If Kellis was still living in Idaho he would win another pseudo-prestigious Idaho sports writers trophy for this
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If Kellis was still living in Idaho he would win another pseudo-prestigious Idaho sports writers trophy for this
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm9.staticflickr.com%2F8099%2F8519131104_a5fce9160c_m.jpg&hash=3ebcd6efadb761918ba8fb1ec3899cb1d9ce79d5)
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_FAN, any chance of changing out Gottlieb for Lowery in your sig pic?
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_FAN, any chance of changing out Gottlieb for Lowery in your sig pic?
Yes.
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Now I have to turn sigs on to see what all the fuss is about
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Worth it.
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I hate "regular" stats.
LOL, when I read those ppg stats I was like, "Hey! That doesn't tell me anything Kellis." It was a good article though. I think sometimes guys get in a bind. BBall junkies want advanced stats and I think a lot of the reporters want to throw some in there, but it runs the risk of befuddling a majority of less astute fans. Oh well.
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:dubious:
What a lazy statement
Lowery is a defensive guru. He convinces players to pressure the ball without getting beat to the basket. His ways have clearly rubbed off. The Wildcats lead the Big 12 in scoring defense, allowing 59.7 points.
Read more here: http://www.kansas.com/2013/02/28/2696452/weber-lowery-former-effective.html#storylink=cpy
I mean, I don't even...
FYI, that is one of our main-man Doug Gottlieb's keys to success in college bball. So it isn't really a point to make fun of.
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
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blame it on oscar
got em playin loose
blame it on chris
not gonna diss
blame it on the kuh kuh kuh kuh kuh kuh wildcats
blame it on the kuh kuh kuh kuh kuh kuh wildcats
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it takes two to make a thing go right
oscar! chris!
it takes two to make it outta sight
oscar! chris!
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Some traditional stats are fine, but saying we have the "best scoring defense" by using PPG is dumb.
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i wanna coach right now
i'm BW and i came to get down
i'm not internationally known
but i'm known to go and recruit alone
cause i fly a lot and i mean a lot
stay away from me if you don't have a good shot
cause i've been a winna and sometimes a losea
head coach of da cats is what i choosea
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i wanna coach right now
i'm BW and i came to get down
i'm not internationally known
but i'm known to go and recruit alone
cause i fly a lot and i mean a lot
stay away from me if you don't have a good shot
cause i've been a winna and sometimes a losea
head coach of da cats is what i choosea
:thumbs:
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my name is chris, i got a defensively oriented concept
feet side to side, arms up and keep in step
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Some traditional stats are fine, but saying we have the "best scoring defense" by using PPG is dumb.
It depends on what you mean by best. Plus, all stats are dumb in a sense.
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Some traditional stats are fine, but saying we have the "best scoring defense" by using PPG is dumb.
It depends on what you mean by best. Plus, all stats are dumb in a sense.
Wins and losses are stats in a sense. So now we've gotten to the point where sports are dumb in a sense. Which may be right!
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i wanna coach right now
i'm BW and i came to get down
i'm not internationally known
but i'm known to go and recruit alone
cause i fly a lot and i mean a lot
stay away from me if you don't have a good shot
cause i've been a winna and sometimes a losea
head coach of da cats is what i choosea
my name is chris, i got a defensively oriented concept
feet side to side, arms up and keep in step
You know what's not dumb? This.
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Some traditional stats are fine, but saying we have the "best scoring defense" by using PPG is dumb.
It depends on what you mean by best. Plus, all stats are dumb in a sense.
HA! classic chum1 right here.
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yeah i mean everyone knows our offense is better than our defense, but if you use points per game as your measuring stick, you would not think this. that's what's dumb.
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I hate how people think tempo adjusted stats are always superior. Each type is merely an indicator, neither gives an entire picture of anything, and often it just doesn't matter which you use to make a point. Get off your high horses. You're not as smart as you think you are.
Some traditional stats are fine, but saying we have the "best scoring defense" by using PPG is dumb.
It depends on what you mean by best. Plus, all stats are dumb in a sense.
Wins and losses are stats in a sense. So now we've gotten to the point where sports are dumb in a sense. Which may be right!
No, they reflect somewhat arbirarily chosen points that we've all agreed to give significance to. Wins make us happy and losses make us sad in a way that things like differences in PPG do not. It's just part of the arrangement.
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:D
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
That's not a good test case because you can't have them independent of winning.
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
is the fact that kenpom has KSU as the 4th best team in the Mountain West reduced your enjoyment of this season?
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
That's not a good test case because you can't have them independent of winning.
you can't win if both your offensive and defensive efficiencies suck.
high kenpom ratings make me very happy
is the fact that kenpom has KSU as the 4th best team in the Mountain West reduced your enjoyment of this season?
I don't care about the Mountain West.
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
That's not a good test case because you can't have them independent of winning.
you can't win if both your offensive and defensive efficiencies suck.
Call it what you want, it's still the same arbitrary event.
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
That's not a good test case because you can't have them independent of winning.
you can't win if both your offensive and defensive efficiencies suck.
Call it what you want, it's still the same arbitrary event.
What is "it"?
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high kenpom ratings make me very happy
That's not a good test case because you can't have them independent of winning.
you can't win if both your offensive and defensive efficiencies suck.
Call it what you want, it's still the same arbitrary event.
What is "it"?
What I would call "winning." Here's my question: Isn't being very happy with a high kenpom ranking ultimately the same is being very happy with lots of wins? Is it possible for you to be happy with a high ranking in a stat based ranking system that had no correlation with wins whatsoever?
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What I would call "winning." Here's my question: Isn't being very happy with a high kenpom ranking ultimately the same is being very happy with lots of wins?
No, they aren't perfectly analogous. Is your enjoyment of wins over the SWAC equal to your enjoyment of wins over teams like Florida?
Is it possible for you to be happy with a high ranking in a stat based ranking system that had no correlation with wins whatsoever?
well, no. Because it definitely wouldn't use extremely useful and always superior possession-based stats.
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What I would call "winning." Here's my question: Isn't being very happy with a high kenpom ranking ultimately the same is being very happy with lots of wins?
No, they aren't perfectly analogous. Is your enjoyment of wins over the SWAC equal to your enjoyment of wins over teams like Florida?
Is it possible for you to be happy with a high ranking in a stat based ranking system that had no correlation with wins whatsoever?
well, no. Because it definitely wouldn't use extremely useful and always superior possession-based stats.
Useful for what?
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Useful for what?
comparing how well teams score
comparing how well teams prevent scoring
combining the two to predict how well a team will perform against another team
Lots of other things, too. What would you like to do?
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i wanna coach right now
i'm BW and i came to get down
i'm not internationally known
but i'm known to go and recruit alone
cause i fly a lot and i mean a lot
stay away from me if you don't have a good shot
cause i've been a winna and sometimes a losea
head coach of da cats is what i choosea
nicname thoroughly enjoyed this rickdaris post.
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Useful for what?
comparing how well teams score
comparing how well teams prevent scoring
combining the two to predict how well a team will perform against another team
Lots of other things, too. What would you like to do?
So, knowing those things is an end in itself, having meaning independent of wins? That's a new concept to me and I'm still skeptical of it. It no doubt originated in an attempt to predict wins. Even if you're just talking about which team is better, it seems nearly everyone would be thinking about which team would win more in one way or another.
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Useful for what?
comparing how well teams score
comparing how well teams prevent scoring
combining the two to predict how well a team will perform against another team
Lots of other things, too. What would you like to do?
So, knowing those things is an end in itself, having meaning independent of wins? That's a new concept to me and I'm still skeptical of it. It no doubt originated in an attempt to predict wins. Even if you're just talking about which team is better, it seems nearly everyone would be thinking about which team would win more in one way or another.
They definitely exist (in part) to compare the strength of teams and help predict wins and losses. And they are always superior to per-game stats for predicting wins and losses.
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Useful for what?
comparing how well teams score
comparing how well teams prevent scoring
combining the two to predict how well a team will perform against another team
Lots of other things, too. What would you like to do?
So, knowing those things is an end in itself, having meaning independent of wins? That's a new concept to me and I'm still skeptical of it. It no doubt originated in an attempt to predict wins. Even if you're just talking about which team is better, it seems nearly everyone would be thinking about which team would win more in one way or another.
They definitely exist (in part) to compare the strength of teams and help predict wins and losses. And they are always superior to per-game stats for predicting wins and losses.
Well, for one, you don't need to adjust for tempo when tempos are similar enough. I can also imagine cases in which margin of victory is as successful a predictor as kenpom. My point wasn't about the best system in general. It was about the dogmatic insistence that everyone must use that system in every situation and they're stupid if they don't.
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It was about the dogmatic insistence that everyone must use that system in every situation and they're stupid if they don't.
I don't believe anyone said this in this thread.
I will admit I may imply it sometimes (I did say I hate regular stats, and most of the time I do), but it was never explicit in this thread.
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It was about the dogmatic insistence that everyone must use that system in every situation and they're stupid if they don't.
I don't believe anyone said this in this thread.
I will admit I may imply it sometimes (I did say I hate regular stats, and most of the time I do), but it was never explicit in this thread.
Someone did. It happens a lot, though, and not just from that person. The assumption made very often here is that conclusions drawn from stats are completely invalid if the stats aren't adjusted for tempo. That's a false assumption.
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nothing means anything guys
especially if it is basic statistics stuff I don't understand
quit talking about anything guys
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especially if it is basic statistics stuff I don't understand
Ooooh! Please explain statistics stuff to me! Do it!!!
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especially if it is basic statistics stuff I don't understand
Ooooh! Please explain statistics stuff to me! Do it!!!
:lol:
gather ye rosebuds while ye may
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No stat means itself. Widening gyre. Infinite play.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fforum%2FSmileys%2FgoEMAW%2FJerk%2520off.gif&hash=389871d7ba57dfe39c8ab20ccf3e65d154b281bb)
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Well, for one, you don't need to adjust for tempo when tempos are similar enough. I can also imagine cases in which margin of victory is as successful a predictor as kenpom. My point wasn't about the best system in general. It was about the dogmatic insistence that everyone must use that system in every situation and they're stupid if they don't.
they are also often ignorant. But when it's a sportswriter, I'm pretty much okay with thinking they're stupid. I'll try to make my tone nicer next time so you're not offended.