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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Powercat Posse on February 25, 2013, 10:43:57 PM

Title: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 25, 2013, 10:43:57 PM
So up 5 with 35 seconds left.  KU ball.     

Let KU get all the 2s they want.   So u probably should have 5 guards out there and switch all screens

Withey sets a screen for EJ.  Niang is nowhere in sight to help on the ball screen.  He is lost, trying to worry about the basket. 

EJ comes off screen and hits a 3 with no one in his face.     

Hoiberg is absolutely CLUELESS on how to gameplan on defense.   
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: ednksu on February 25, 2013, 10:45:24 PM
Yeah I wonder if taking a TO near the end (I think they had one) would have been better. 

Young team, shell shocked, they needed to regroup.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: AppleJack on February 25, 2013, 10:47:29 PM
He is the Paul Rhodes of college hoops. He is perfect for them and their love of mediocrity.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Demo158 on February 25, 2013, 10:50:15 PM
He is the Paul Rhodes of college hoops. He is perfect for them and their love of mediocrity.
I feel like this sums up Iowa State University perfectly
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 25, 2013, 10:52:41 PM
It didn't matter. ISU did what they needed to do by setting up and drawing a charge on the next possession.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 25, 2013, 10:53:51 PM
He is the Paul Rhodes of college hoops. He is perfect for them and their love of mediocrity.
I feel like this sums up Iowa State University perfectly

Can confirm.  The losers from from the Skunk River Sewers were just happy to be close.

I'd feel pity for them if I thought they'd care.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 25, 2013, 10:56:51 PM
And then he did his best Travis Ford impression =

4.9 seconds.  Lets have our PG dribble down the court and shoot a 30 foot shot.     Seriously, you dont have a better offensive play to run than that?
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Pett on February 25, 2013, 11:08:19 PM
He was a pussy for not assaulting the refs at the end of the game imho
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 25, 2013, 11:10:15 PM
I am really going to hate Niang too.... especially if that dude is here all 4 years.

He is a  really good player, but he was just flat awful tonight.   3-17 from the field ad 0-8 on 2pt shots, and snagged a whopping 2 reb
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: bones129 on February 25, 2013, 11:12:30 PM
He was a pussy for not assaulting the refs at the end of the game imho

Appeared as though he yelled at one of the refs after the game when the ref wasn't looking. I don't think that counts. Kind of soft, to say the least.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 25, 2013, 11:13:15 PM
He was a pussy for not assaulting the refs at the end of the game imho

Appeared as though he yelled at one of the refs after the game when the ref wasn't looking. I don't think that counts. Kind of soft, to say the least.

He did, and I believe he threw his dry erase market at that ref's feet. He high tailed it out of there by the time the ref turned around, though.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Frank martin is a douche on February 25, 2013, 11:39:50 PM
You people are idiots.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 25, 2013, 11:45:35 PM
So the 4 close games that Isu lost late

With 2:00 on the clock in the 2nd half --

at KU ... Isu had 4 pt lead
at Osu ... Isu had 4 pt lead
at Tex... Isu had 5 pt lead
KU .... Isu had 4 pt lead

at KU ....  KU had 10 pts in 5 poss last 2:00
at Osu .... Osu had 6 pts in 5 poss last2:00
at Tex ...  UT had 9 pts in 5 poss last 2:00
KU  ....  KU had 10 pts in 4 poss last 2:00

35 points. 19 Poss.   Hey Mr Mayor, u might want to get a stop.   0-4 is what Pussy coached teams do     

Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 12:23:22 AM
So the 4 close games that Isu lost late

With 2:00 on the clock in the 2nd half --

at KU ... Isu had 4 pt lead
at Osu ... Isu had 4 pt lead
at Tex... Isu had 5 pt lead
KU .... Isu had 4 pt lead

at KU ....  KU had 10 pts in 5 poss last 2:00
at Osu .... Osu had 6 pts in 5 poss last2:00
at Tex ...  UT had 9 pts in 5 poss last 2:00
KU  ....  KU had 10 pts in 4 poss last 2:00

35 points. 19 Poss.   Hey Mr Mayor, u might want to get a stop.   0-4 is what Pussy coached teams do     

 :sdeek:
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Havs on February 26, 2013, 02:38:35 AM
Do you really expect "the best shooter ever" to know anything about defense? You people need some common sense sprinkled in every once in a while. Things shock people on this site a little too easily and its scary.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 07:00:50 AM
Also disappointing to get your 81% FT shooting PG with 12 seconds left and he makes 1 of 2.

There were very questionable calls at the end, but ISU found a way to lose a close game. Again.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 08:36:41 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 08:37:44 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

Yeah.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 08:39:46 AM
And his "close game" record really isn't that bad.

 http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/fred-hoiberg/career_record
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Cire on February 26, 2013, 08:54:07 AM
I hate babb did not feel bad for him
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 09:13:33 AM
He was a pussy for not assaulting the refs at the end of the game imho

Appeared as though he yelled at one of the refs after the game when the ref wasn't looking. I don't think that counts. Kind of soft, to say the least.

He did, and I believe he threw his dry erase market at that ref's feet. He high tailed it out of there by the time the ref turned around, though.

Heh, what a sissy
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: pc5k on February 26, 2013, 09:15:35 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

I used to think the same thing about Jim Woolridge
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 09:17:39 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

I used to think the same thing about Jim Woolridge

Woolridge couldn't even sniff the NIT.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 09:19:31 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

I used to think the same thing about Jim Woolridge

Jim wasn't that bad in close games either, his problem was he got blown out a shitload.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/jim-wooldridge/career_record
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 09:20:09 AM
Keepers of the Faith!
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: SleepFighter on February 26, 2013, 09:20:51 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

I used to think the same thing about Jim Woolridge

Imagine that.  A close game record near 50%.

http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/jim-wooldridge/career_record (http://statsheet.com/mcb/coaches/jim-wooldridge/career_record)
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 09:24:47 AM
I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: steve dave on February 26, 2013, 09:27:13 AM
close game record is a bullshit stat imo
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 09:29:57 AM
Rusty, let me bait ISU fans in peace.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 09:32:42 AM
Hoiberg is fine. His bad luck at ends of games will balance out eventually.

Clones are #299 in kenpom's "Luck" rating.

Hawks are #181.

Cats are #20.

Quote
Luck - A measure of the deviation between a team’s actual winning percentage and what one would expect from its game-by-game efficiencies. It’s a Dean Oliver invention. Essentially, a team involved in a lot of close games should not win (or lose) all of them. Those that do will be viewed as lucky (or unlucky).
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 09:37:17 AM
I think a good team that plays slow should win more close games than a good team that plays fast, simply because those last few possessions of the game constitute a higher percentage of the overall possessions in the game. It would be interesting to see the stats.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 10:12:42 AM
The "non call" is a legit point, but...

Making 1 of 2 FTs on the other end, allowing the non-call to be a factor and not a (likely) contested 3?

1.3 points per possession and 64% eFG% allowed, AND KU rebounded 40% of their misses?

28% on 2s?

Hitting 1 of 9 from 3 the last 3 minutes and OT?

I'm don't feel sorry for ISU. They blew the game.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 10:14:18 AM
The "non call" is a legit point, but...

Making 1 of 2 FTs on the other end, allowing the non-call to be a factor and not a (likely) contested 3?

1.3 points per possession and 64% eFG% allowed, AND KU rebounded 40% of their misses?

28% on 2s?

Hitting 1 of 9 from 3 the last 3 minutes and OT?

I'm don't feel sorry for ISU. They blew the game.

OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: nicname on February 26, 2013, 10:17:42 AM
I've said before that I thought he was a good coach.    :facepalm:
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 10:22:23 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: jmlynch1 on February 26, 2013, 10:29:14 AM
NBA shotclock
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 10:29:58 AM
I don't begrudge Hoiberg for shooting early in the shot clock on those possessions. It's hard to get a good shot when you hold the ball and try to use the full shot clock. The Cyclones won on the court. The refs decided to take over the game and give it to KU instead.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: ChiComCat on February 26, 2013, 10:30:38 AM
The "non call" is a legit point, but...

Making 1 of 2 FTs on the other end, allowing the non-call to be a factor and not a (likely) contested 3?

1.3 points per possession and 64% eFG% allowed, AND KU rebounded 40% of their misses?

28% on 2s?

Hitting 1 of 9 from 3 the last 3 minutes and OT?

I'm don't feel sorry for ISU. They blew the game.

OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

Was there a reason for this?  I had the game on mute and couldn't figure this out
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 10:31:19 AM
The "non call" is a legit point, but...

Making 1 of 2 FTs on the other end, allowing the non-call to be a factor and not a (likely) contested 3?

1.3 points per possession and 64% eFG% allowed, AND KU rebounded 40% of their misses?

28% on 2s?

Hitting 1 of 9 from 3 the last 3 minutes and OT?

I'm don't feel sorry for ISU. They blew the game.

OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

Was there a reason for this?  I had the game on mute and couldn't figure this out

Kevin Young raised his hand and the refs agreed to give Withey's 5th foul to him instead.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: ChiComCat on February 26, 2013, 10:32:35 AM
The one that Withey reached clear across the guards body and Young didn't seem involved?  Makes sense for this game I guess
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 10:33:18 AM
The one that Withey reached clear across the guards body and Young didn't seem involved?  Makes sense for this game I guess

Yeah, that was the one. This loss is on ISU, though. They should have shot 100% from the field, used the full shot clock every possession, and blocked every shot KU put up. Sure, KU would get some points on bogus foul calls, but ISU wins in that scenario every time.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: ChiComCat on February 26, 2013, 10:41:30 AM
I hate to say the officials cost anybody the game but last nights game was as close as it gets.  Iowa St/Hoiberg didn't do everything perfect by any stretch but they did enough.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 10:42:44 AM
I hate to say the officials cost anybody the game but last nights game was as close as it gets.  Iowa St/Hoiberg didn't do everything perfect by any stretch but they did enough.

I agree that there were multiple bad calls in the last minute. The non-call then foul on the ground on the last possession were really bad.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kougar24 on February 26, 2013, 10:44:08 AM
You people talking about feeling sorry for ISU or not are missing the point. Feel sorry for EMAW.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 10:45:00 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: ChiComCat on February 26, 2013, 10:45:20 AM
I hate to say the officials cost anybody the game but last nights game was as close as it gets.  Iowa St/Hoiberg didn't do everything perfect by any stretch but they did enough.

I agree that there were multiple bad calls in the last minute. The non-call then foul on the ground on the last possession were really bad.

Yea, if they had both been no calls, I get "let the players decide it" to a point (still would disagree but know its a view that some have).  But to not call the obvious and then call a questionable at best is incredibly weird and inconsistent.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 10:47:18 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.

They made a record number or 3's. 
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 10:48:59 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.

True, their offense was really good and with around 4 minutes to go they were 16-32 from 3. It was pretty amazing that they were hit 28% from 2 though. And I partially couldn't blame the quick shots because they were shooting so well and I like the attack mode. But you always like things until they don't work, which is the only reason I'm questioning it. If they had hit one of those 3 shots they win the game most likely.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 10:50:45 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.

True, their offense was really good and with around 4 minutes to go they were 16-32 from 3. It was pretty amazing that they were hit 28% from 2 though. And I partially couldn't blame the quick shots because they were shooting so well and I like the attack mode. But you always like things until they don't work, which is the only reason I'm questioning it. If they had hit one of those 3 shots they win the game most likely.

This is just like the foul discussion. I think you're a little too emotional. (I would quantify this if I could. :D)
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 10:54:45 AM
This is just like the foul discussion. I think you're a little too emotional. (I would quantify this if I could. :D)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRuCLdLDcsj7fWl11UWiZIVpK-MDEjqrfkkl4Ays3aweKmTD77H)
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 10:55:58 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.

They made a record number or 3's. 

limestone, you miss 100% of the threes your coach doesn't let you take.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 10:59:57 AM
OT probably goes a bit differently as well if Withey isn't on the floor with 5 fouls . . .

OT shouldn't have been a factor.

In addition to that, from the 5 minute mark to the 3 minute mark ISU had 3 possessions with leads of 5, 5, and 2 points. In those possessions ISU used 20 seconds, 5 seconds, and 15 seconds of possession before shooting a shot. Surely the Mayor and his Rolodex of NBA plays has some better sets to use 25 seconds of clock, but still generate a decent 3. (I don't begrudge ISU shooting 3s, if anything they should have shot more the way they shot the ball from 2.)

I mean, it's really hard to blame their offense, too. Hoi's OEFF have been the second and third worst KU games this year.

They made a record number or 3's. 

limestone, you miss 100% of the threes your coach doesn't let you take.

OEFF
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kougar24 on February 26, 2013, 11:01:09 AM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: steve dave on February 26, 2013, 11:02:27 AM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

WHOA  :sdeek:
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kougar24 on February 26, 2013, 11:09:13 AM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

just watched it on ESPN3. was definitely along those lines, whatever he said.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 12:26:35 PM
You people talking about feeling sorry for ISU or not are missing the point. Feel sorry for EMAW.

Yeah. IDGAF that ISU got screwed. It just sucks that K-State probably just got mumped out of a Big 12 Championship because of the worst officiating that I have ever seen in any sport at any level.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Havs on February 26, 2013, 12:38:43 PM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

Ok now I'm back to loving Fred again.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 12:40:12 PM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

Ok now I'm back to loving Fred again.

And Paul Rhodes
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kougar24 on February 26, 2013, 12:40:48 PM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

Ok now I'm back to loving Fred again.

And Paul Rhodes

lol
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Emo EMAW on February 26, 2013, 12:42:23 PM
Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 12:45:04 PM
Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?

No, there is no Doc except for the Doc.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Havs on February 26, 2013, 12:45:24 PM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

Ok now I'm back to loving Fred again.

And Paul Rhodes

Putting words in peoples' mouths never get you anywhere.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kso_FAN on February 26, 2013, 12:47:35 PM
Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?

Trent Johnson is the closest thing.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Dugout DickStone on February 26, 2013, 12:56:55 PM
Rumor has it Hoi told the refs "Get the eff out of my gym" when he confronted them and pointed to the exit after the game. Need a gif.

Ok now I'm back to loving Fred again.


And Paul Rhodes

Putting words in peoples' mouths never get you anywhere.

I thought u loved HCPR?
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 01:06:54 PM
Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?

Trent Johnson is the closest thing.

Yes, but he's not really on Doc's level. Maybe Tech will actually hire Doc after this season and we can have him back.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 26, 2013, 02:23:57 PM
I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 02:33:39 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on February 26, 2013, 02:36:56 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 02:39:21 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

Why not use the score at the 30 second mark?
Title: Re: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 02:40:13 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on February 26, 2013, 02:45:00 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

Why not use the score at the 30 second mark?

because at best, each team is getting only 1 possession so that would be stupid
Title: Re: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: EllRobersonisInnocent on February 26, 2013, 02:47:04 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

I'd say the team sucks then. When they're leading by 2+ possessions at the 2 minute mark and they lose all 4 games you deserve to be called a shitty coach. Some of it can be players/refs but it is a sign of poor coaching
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 02:49:40 PM
The point is that coaches don't win or lose close games at the end of the game. There is way too much that happens beyond the control of the coach. Good coaches get most of their wins in blowout fashion so the element of chance is taken away. Hoiberg's team did everything they needed to to come away with a win last night. They were hosed by the refs. If they were blowing out KU, that wouldn't have happened, but KU is a pretty good team themselves.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 02:52:44 PM
I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4

And I'm saying this isn't some systematic problem for Hoiberg, it's just a string of bad luck this year. Here are some examples from last year:


Down 3 at the 2:00, won by 2:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/31/kansas-state-70-iowa-state-72-2012/play_by_play

Tied at 1:45, won by 4:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/25/iowa-state-65-kansas-state-61/play_by_play

Up 3 at 2:00, won by 8:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/28/kansas-64-iowa-state-72/play_by_play

Down 3 at 2:00, won by 3:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/18/oklahoma-state-68-iowa-state-71/play_by_play
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Skipper44 on February 26, 2013, 02:54:26 PM
PP, I wonder how ISU was in choose games last year when they had a stud to play through Srthe end of games.  I know they beat us twice in close games.
Title: Re: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 26, 2013, 03:00:05 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

I'd say the team sucks then. When they're leading by 2+ possessions at the 2 minute mark and they lose all 4 games you deserve to be called a shitty coach. Some of it can be players/refs but it is a sign of poor coaching

Totally agree.  Its not all Hoiberg's fault but I dont care if my coach was Frank oscar or Bill Self...... If my team had a 2 possession lead with 2:00 to go and i found a way to lose them all.... i would be pissed off at my team and especially at my coach.

Sure there is some emotion in my reaction as a KU loss would have been big for us.... but i have been telling my friends how poor Isu and Hoiberg have been late in games for several weeks.      I just rolled my eyes every time.  This time i am rolling my eyes and saying a few swear words with it.

Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 03:05:25 PM
Why does the score at the 2:00 mark matter?

Because its like, the very end of the game and they choke it away  :dunno:

would you think more of him as a coach if he was down 10 at the 2:00 mark and lost by 10? probably, because you're letting your emotions get the best of you.

I'd say the team sucks then. When they're leading by 2+ possessions at the 2 minute mark and they lose all 4 games you deserve to be called a shitty coach. Some of it can be players/refs but it is a sign of poor coaching

Totally agree.  Its not all Hoiberg's fault but I dont care if my coach was Frank oscar or Bill Self...... If my team had a 2 possession lead with 2:00 to go and i found a way to lose them all....

A big problem problem with your premise is he hasn't found a way to lose them all.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Powercat Posse on February 26, 2013, 03:21:19 PM
I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4

And I'm saying this isn't some systematic problem for Hoiberg, it's just a string of bad luck this year. Here are some examples from last year:


Down 3 at the 2:00, won by 2:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/31/kansas-state-70-iowa-state-72-2012/play_by_play

Tied at 1:45, won by 4:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/25/iowa-state-65-kansas-state-61/play_by_play

Up 3 at 2:00, won by 8:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/28/kansas-64-iowa-state-72/play_by_play

Down 3 at 2:00, won by 3:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/18/oklahoma-state-68-iowa-state-71/play_by_play

Good find.   So 3 times last year they were tied or behind by 1 possession late and won the game.    Although I would not refer to that as having good luck just like i would not say that this year is having bad luck

Its just my opinion (and you obviously have yours) but Hoiberg has done a piss poor job of gameplanning on defense this year when his team has a 2 possession lead late.  35 points in 19 possessions late in those 4 games proved costly.

   His fault or not, his team failed to foul in certain situations and 3 pointers cost him.    Last night his team was totally lost on defense on the 3 pointer that Johnson hit to cut the lead from 5 to 2 pts with 30 seconds left.   
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 26, 2013, 03:26:24 PM
I don't understand how anybody can say that Hoiberg was not a victim of bad luck last night. His offense created 3 open looks, and his defense set up perfectly to force a turnover on KU's last possession in regulation up by 2 points.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: michigancat on February 26, 2013, 03:35:25 PM
I mean, he beat oscar and Huggs in close games this year. PP is a stats guy, he needs to be more rational. I expect you to react emotionally, Limestone, it's what you do and I love you for it.

My issue is not just with losing close games, but how they are losing them.   They had a 4 or 5 point lead when the clock said 2:00 in the 2nd half (and i think twice they had the ball) and lost all  4 of those games

They beat WV by 2 pts and Baylor by 5 pts this year.
They were up 6 pts with the ball vs WV at 2:00 and almost choked that game.  WV tied it before Isu won it with basket with 3 seconds left
In baylor game they were up 7 with 2:00 left


We had some close losses last year.  In Big 12, Kstate was 2-4 in games decided by 4 pts or less.
Lost by 2,2,3,4 pts..... and only one of them were we ahead at 2:00 (and ahead by 3 pts, so 1 possession not 2)
Won by 1 and 4 pts.....  We were behind at Baylor by 1 point with 2:00 and won by 1.   Up 4 with 2:00 vs Texas and won by 4

And I'm saying this isn't some systematic problem for Hoiberg, it's just a string of bad luck this year. Here are some examples from last year:


Down 3 at the 2:00, won by 2:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/31/kansas-state-70-iowa-state-72-2012/play_by_play

Tied at 1:45, won by 4:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/02/25/iowa-state-65-kansas-state-61/play_by_play

Up 3 at 2:00, won by 8:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/28/kansas-64-iowa-state-72/play_by_play

Down 3 at 2:00, won by 3:
http://statsheet.com/mcb/games/2012/01/18/oklahoma-state-68-iowa-state-71/play_by_play

Good find.   So 3 times last year they were tied or behind by 1 possession late and won the game.    Although I would not refer to that as having good luck just like i would not say that this year is having bad luck

Its just my opinion (and you obviously have yours) but Hoiberg has done a piss poor job of gameplanning on defense this year when his team has a 2 possession lead late.  35 points in 19 possessions late in those 4 games proved costly.

   His fault or not, his team failed to foul in certain situations and 3 pointers cost him.    Last night his team was totally lost on defense on the 3 pointer that Johnson hit to cut the lead from 5 to 2 pts with 30 seconds left.   

Yes, his come-from-behind wins last year are partially due to good luck. And I didn't look very hard, there could have been more games they have come from behind in. I'm certain there's been more games with a two-possession lead or less with 2 minutes left that he won.

And yeah, I don't believe the results of 19 possessions out of 1900+ this season alone means Hoiberg has a "pussy-coached team" or is "clueless". He may have some room to improve, but his overall results show that he is a fine coach.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: sys on February 26, 2013, 09:24:59 PM
Is Fred the Big 12's new Doc Sadler?

Trent Johnson is the closest thing.

oscar weber is the closest thing, actually.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: kitten_mittons on February 26, 2013, 09:39:15 PM
I'd say that one KU assistant is the closest right now.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: GCJayhawker on February 27, 2013, 03:44:02 PM
You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 27, 2013, 03:52:42 PM
You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.

I wish he were our DOBO.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: GCJayhawker on February 27, 2013, 03:54:45 PM
You all are wasting time who is the next Doc.  No one can ever match the greatness that is Doc. He and his teams were so adorable, can't get enough of that guy.

I wish he were our DOBO.

As you should. You would get cute things like this before games https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGLUV2LJezc
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 27, 2013, 03:56:36 PM
If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Belvis Noland on February 27, 2013, 05:06:44 PM
If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.

It would probably be a good idea to supply him with some knee-savers as well.  ya know, what catchers used to wear in the mid-90s. 
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 27, 2013, 05:07:31 PM
If I were AD and Doc were my DOBO, I would have an area right behind the bench where the seat is cut out so Doc would have more room to squat. Doc prefers to squat, not sit, and I would do everything in my power to cater to the talent.

It would probably be a good idea to supply him with some knee-savers as well.  ya know, what catchers used to wear in the mid-90s.

I would, but Doc is way too cool to ever put those on.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: GCJayhawker on February 28, 2013, 08:54:49 AM
No way Doc ever puts on the knee savers.  Doc does not have the knees of a regular man, he had his knees replaced with some futuristic tech that allows him to squat forever with no repercussions.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Cire on February 28, 2013, 08:58:08 AM
I would love to be there win doc comes in to seff's office after looking at film on his own time and he's telling seff all kinds of things that he sees etc and then seff says "thanks doc, did you schedule our meals for Baylor yet?"
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on February 28, 2013, 09:03:49 AM
I think it's pretty obvious that Withey is modeling his game off of Maric. If that's not Doc, then I don't know what is.
Title: Re: Hoiberg
Post by: KSUblumpkin on February 28, 2013, 12:24:58 PM
I am pretty sure Monday night was a victory in the eyes of ISU fans.  Here's why:

A) It didn't flood (yet)

B) They lost which allows them to continue to cheer for mediocrity

C) They got a golden shower from the refs, which will actually help clean some of those hillbillies

Overall, I see a win all around for Iowa State.