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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 16, 2013, 01:20:03 PM
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There has been a lot of discussion about K-State players this year and attempts to compare them to one another. As a result, I thought we needed a good system to compare player to player on an equal basis. The following is the result, a simple chart that shows a variety of categories rated by how each player performs per 100 possessions. Also, these numbers are only factoring in possessions when players are on the floor; for each category the players numbers are factored into their percentage of minutes played divided by the total number of possessions for the season. Then that number is divided to get a fairly simple per 100 number so its easy to compare player to player, and it should be easy enough to follow whether or not you are a stat geek or not. I think it gives you a lot of the same info that kenpom and statsheet have for advanced stats, but perhaps is a bit easier to read.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F01%2FK-State-1-16-13-Per-100-Ratings.png&hash=4b50941d0f0c3d9a5c21d433fc4758cfeef6036b)
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OMARI!!! What a ballhawk
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Good stuff here. I'm surprised that 'Tay was at the bottom on scoring. Is he really that invaluable?
I also don't know how anyone can argue against Angel while looking at this. Not really speaking to this board. But K-State fans in general.
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Good stuff here. I'm surprised that 'Tay was at the bottom on scoring. Is he really that invaluable?
I also don't know how anyone can argue against Angel while looking at this. Not really speaking to this board. But K-State fans in general.
Angel has to play, but he also has to quit fouling. By far the worst foul rate of the guards. I understand his TO rate being the highest, but he's got to cut that down a bit.
Its hard to argue Tay over Will based on the numbers, but equal minutes is justified. Just play whoever is playing better.
I'm not surprised the guards aren't great oboarders because they often have defensive assignments, but I was surprised how bad Shane is at oboarding.
Nino is a more of a scorer than I anticipated.
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I really like these charts. Our HS coach used per100 charts for us and I thought it always showed a fairly precise way of breaking down what's going on. I can't wait to see what D.J. can do.
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Great stuff FAN!
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Everyone wants Angel to play more. I'm sure oscar wants Angel to play more. I can't wait until he gets the fouling under control. I'm not even too concerned with the turnovers. Sure they are higher than you would like, but he's still making things happen and the A/T ratio at 1.85 isn't too bad.
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Everyone wants Angel to play more. I'm sure oscar wants Angel to play more. I can't wait until he gets the fouling under control. I'm not even too concerned with the turnovers. Sure they are higher than you would like, but he's still making things happen and the A/T ratio at 1.85 isn't too bad.
True. I suppose I was just surprised his TOs per 100 was that high.
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
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I'm not even too concerned with the turnovers. Sure they are higher than you would like, but he's still making things happen and the A/T ratio at 1.85 isn't too bad.
Yeah, he's gonna have an inflated turnover total when:
A) He is the PG and he handles the ball every possesion
B) 75% of the time the throws it down low it gets dropped by Gip for a turnover.
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
huh, hadn't seen it.
but, i was thinking more along the lines of "stupid posts per 100" or "tries too hard to be edgy posts per 100"
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
huh, hadn't seen it.
but, i was thinking more along the lines of "stupid posts per 100" or "tries too hard to be edgy posts per 100"
chingon is working on a filter for that and we will be rolling out something soon
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good to hear
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
What does that prove?
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ha
Male to Female Ratio: 20.4:1
:sdeek:
Most Time Online
WillieWatanabe 227d 8h 0m
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
huh, hadn't seen it.
but, i was thinking more along the lines of "stupid posts per 100" or "tries too hard to be edgy posts per 100"
steve dave posts per 100 posts = 4.719
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
fatty still the #2 topic starter :frown:
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i wish there were stats in a similar fashion to this for goEMAW posters.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?action=stats
fatty still the #2 topic starter :frown:
Just a tribute to his disdain of master threads.
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36k posts i mean good God.
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The 4 bigs and Nino combine for an ave of 9.4 OR per 100 possessions.
We ave around 66 poss per game..... so that would meen these 5 are ave about 6.25 per every 66 possessions
Or you could say these 5 ave 6.25 OR per 40 minutes (since 66 possessions is what we play in 40 minutes)
Thats pretty impressive. Before the Fla game, Those 5 were getting basicly all the minutes at the 4/5 spots
These 5 ave 70 minutes of playing time per game ..... (now this is going down since Shane is getting minutes at the 4)
so basicly on ave so far, we have gotten 10.9 OR per game from these 5 guys
(6.25 for 40 minutes of game time.... so 10.9 for 70 minutes of game)
Rod is getting about the same ORs as last year..... so we need Shane to be little more assertive hitting the O-boards
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Shane is getting 1.3 more def rebounds per game this year (compared to last)... and he is ave 4.5 more min per game this year
Will is getting 1.1 more def rebounds per game this year... and basicly ave the same minutes played
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Everyone wants Angel to play more. I'm sure oscar wants Angel to play more. I can't wait until he gets the fouling under control. I'm not even too concerned with the turnovers. Sure they are higher than you would like, but he's still making things happen and the A/T ratio at 1.85 isn't too bad.
So, what was the deal with Angel's minutes tonight? Obviously he shot poorly, but he was creator and came up with two steals. Tay played very well offensively and picked the rock a couple of times. Will was the one in fouling tonight (he also got burned pretty badly at least once that I saw in the first half). Still, Will's game seemed decent, though not enough shots imo.
Will still got around 30 minutes and Angel and Tay split for around 20 each.
I didn't pay close enough attention to the rotations to discern how guys like Shane, etc. minutes impacted the guard minutes.
I don't mention Rod because he is a given and not needed for discussion.
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You could make a decent argument that Nino should play a lot more based on these numbers.
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You could make a decent argument that Nino should play a lot more based on these numbers.
Yeah, but not based on how he played tonight.
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I thought Angel played more than 21 minutes vs TCU but i dont think he played much in 2nd half. The bigs go 57 minutes tonight. Shane and Nino had foul trouble first half and Nino barely played 2nd half
JO had 10 boards in 24 minutes, but the other 3 only had 3 boards in 33 minutes. I did not like our effort on the def boards in the 2nd half
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ha
Male to Female Ratio: 20.4:1
:sdeek:
Most Time Online
WillieWatanabe 227d 8h 0m
YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY, FEDOR?!
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I thought Angel played more than 21 minutes vs TCU but i dont think he played much in 2nd half. The bigs go 57 minutes tonight. Shane and Nino had foul trouble first half and Nino barely played 2nd half
JO had 10 boards in 24 minutes, but the other 3 only had 3 boards in 33 minutes. I did not like our effort on the def boards in the 2nd half
I don't think oscar liked how Angel played early and he took him out and put in Tay. When Angel came back in he played fine, but the game was over midway through the 2nd half.
After the bad start, we boarded really well the rest of the first and had a large rebounding margin going into half time. We seemed okay to start the 2nd, then down the stretch we mailed it in a bit on the boards.
I want our guys to give full effort for the game, but I can understand after seeing how bad TCU was that you would sort of coast a bit. They were just so terrible.
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Comparison by category from last season to this season.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg585.imageshack.us%2Fimg585%2F6981%2Fkstate13to12per100chart.png&hash=9eb141c6899f9d72348998720e3afdead289b7e5)
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Nice to see=
1) the 3 guards and Rod all improved their asst per 100
2) basicly everyone is better with TOs
3) Counting OR and DR combined.... JO is 3.3 and Gip is 2.5 better, while Shane is 3.2 better on DR
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Comparison by category from last season to this season.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg585.imageshack.us%2Fimg585%2F6981%2Fkstate13to12per100chart.png&hash=9eb141c6899f9d72348998720e3afdead289b7e5)
The only significant improvement Will has made is DReb. :dubious:
You could argue Assists, but I would counter with the fact that he improved the least in that category of any guard.
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The only significant improvement Will has made is DReb. :dubious:
You could argue Assists, but I would counter with the fact that he improved the least in that category of any guard.
Your obsession with Will is noted.
I was a probably most surprised by the improvements in oboarding by JO and Gip.
And the overall improvements in assists/TOs by all of the guards is significant.
Granted, it is very early and there are lots of games against good competition to bring those numbers down. Then again, we play Tech twice and TCU once more too.
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OMARI!!! What a ballhawk
Yeah, that's nice, doesn't quite make up for being a turnover machine. Hopefully he can improve in that area.
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The only significant improvement Will has made is DReb. :dubious:
You could argue Assists, but I would counter with the fact that he improved the least in that category of any guard.
Your obsession with Will is noted.
Am I wrong?
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Am I wrong?
The point is we already have threads devoted to trashing Will, we don't need to muddy up more with more repetitiousness talking points about Will.
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Nice job on the Stats. Good thing we got Michael Orris :thumbs:
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Comparison by category from last season to this season.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg585.imageshack.us%2Fimg585%2F6981%2Fkstate13to12per100chart.png&hash=9eb141c6899f9d72348998720e3afdead289b7e5)
i am looking forward to seeing the 2012 stats (which include the full conference numbers) versus the 2013 stats after the season is over.
we see a lot of improvement year over year but we've been playing puds. unless you took a snapshot through 16 games of 2012 which i can't imagine you did.
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Am I wrong?
The point is we already have threads devoted to trashing Will, we don't need to muddy up more with more repetitiousness talking points about Will.
I disagree. You just posted these rankings which exhibit Will's crappiness yet again. So I feel compelled to comment on that conclusion from those stats.
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Our Asst/TO ratio is 1.27. Best in the league and 33rd nationally
Past 2 years we have been .99 last year and .95 two yrs ago
Not only do we have a 1.27, but our opp only have a 0.65 ratio. That is good for 20th best in the nation
And yes we are still 4th in the nation in OR with 15.5 per game
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Our Asst/TO ratio is 1.27. Best in the league and 33rd nationally
Past 2 years we have been .99 last year and .95 two yrs ago
Not only do we have a 1.27, but our opp only have a 0.65 ratio. That is good for 20th best in the nation
And yes we are still 4th in the nation in OR with 15.5 per game
Wonder what the opponent's A/T ratio is as compared to years passed.
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Our Asst/TO ratio is 1.27. Best in the league and 33rd nationally
Past 2 years we have been .99 last year and .95 two yrs ago
Not only do we have a 1.27, but our opp only have a 0.65 ratio. That is good for 20th best in the nation
And yes we are still 4th in the nation in OR with 15.5 per game
Friendly reminder to consider our SOS currently when comparing to other teams and previous years.
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Our opp A/TO ratio was 0.71in each of the last 2 seasons
We are +2.2 in TO/gm margain this year (+0.76 last yr, +1.26 two yrs ago)
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Counting the 3 Big12 games, plus Fla Mich Gonz and GW....... our A/TO ratio is 1.26
those 7 opp are .90
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Overall per 100 rankings.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg541.imageshack.us%2Fimg541%2F7141%2Fkstate12013overallper10.png&hash=7950dfb6300d05afdb710e4be8c09fe687b89577)
Big 12 only per 100 rankings (through 4 games).
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg26.imageshack.us%2Fimg26%2F7470%2Fkstate12013big12per100r.png&hash=71d37d152806173a26f4c756dd180387ae6244ca)
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The Big 12 addition is great. Thanks, _FAN.
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Angel is a big stud.
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HBBIQ Question: How is the motion O effecting McOreb's orebs? Haven't been able to watch them play enough to form my own conclusion.
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HBBIQ Question: How is the motion O effecting McOreb's orebs? Haven't been able to watch them play enough to form my own conclusion.
His Oboarding per 100 possessions is about the same as it was last year, but its still early. It is down in Big 12 play, but so is everyone else's.
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Angel -- 22 ast/8 TO, Will 10/1, Tay 14/6
Angel and Tay = 16 combined steals
Rod and Shane = 21-42 3pt (50%)
:love:
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Shane's 3 point shooting has been such a nice surprise this year. Didn't see that coming at all.
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:users:
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Updated 1-25-13:
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_Fan, I really enjoy these. Per 100 posessions is a great way to model player efficiency in these categories.
Would it be possible to have a little bit of trend data? Maybe just a +/- from the week or two weeks before? Would be a good way to tell if a player is improving through Big 12 play? :dunno:
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Good idea. I'll see what I can do next time I update.
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Our bigs are freaking hack monsters in conference play, mercy.
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Our bigs are freaking hack monsters in conference play, mercy.
Yeah, a major reason why JO is at 50% minutes played (which is actually up, he's at 39% for the entire season) and Gip is at only 44% (compared to 49% for the season).
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Gip's O-Board numbers and Turnover numbers in Big 12 play are pretty disheartening.
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Yeah, Gip needs to get those 2 numbers to improve. In league games, he is basicly committing twice the TOs than he had in non con games, and his ORs in non con were about 2.5 times better than in league play
Love to see Shane hitting the D-boards. 2nd best on the team to go along with his #2 ranking in scoring in Big 12 play
JO also with a nice 13.5 D-boards in league play.
Angel had been under performing a bit until the Ku game, and we all know the issues with Will's shooting.... but it is nice to see the Asst and TO numbers for our starting 1-2. 42 combined asst and only 12 TOs in league play
Both starting guards have to shoot the 3s better. Will especially since he is the shooting guard (only 17 for his last 60, 28.3%). And Angel too (only hit on 12 of his last 48, 25%)
Rod and Shane on the other hand = cominbed 29-60 from 3pt in conf play. And Tay chipping in with respectible 3-8
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Good stuff, thanks for listening!
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Angel's assists & steals. Shane's DRs and scoring :thumbsup:
26 asst and only 3 TOs for Angel in last 4 games
At least 2 steals for Angel in every B12 game
21 DRs for Shane in last 4 games.
66 pts last 5 games for Shane
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Omari 8.4 ORebs / 100... lol
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Omari 8.4 ORebs / 100... lol
lol'd at this as well.
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If I hear oscar or an analyst praise Will's defensive rebounds per game, I'm going to punt a baby.
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Omari 8.4 ORebs / 100... lol
Yeah, his 6 oboard game vs UT in only 19 minutes (and only 38 minutes in Big 12 play) definitely skews his numbers.
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If I hear oscar or an analyst praise Will's defensive rebounds per game, I'm going to punt a baby.
I agree that oscar's "Rod, Shane, and Will are our best defensive rebounders" talking point going into the UT game was silly, though he did acknowledge in post game that those guys do play more minutes.
However, Will is still 4th in per DRB per 100 in league play, which is still solid for a guard. But the guys that should be our leading DRBers (JO, Gip, and Shane) are where they need to be too.
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Gip finally had a good rebounding game and his conf numbers went up. 7 total reb in his 21 min
Combining ORs and DRs, Gip only had 17 reb in 96 min b4 last night. To compare, JO had 32 boards in 109 minutes.
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If I hear oscar or an analyst praise Will's defensive rebounds per game, I'm going to punt a baby.
I agree that oscar's "Rod, Shane, and Will are our best defensive rebounders" talking point going into the UT game was silly, though he did acknowledge in post game that those guys do play more minutes.
However, Will is still 4th in per DRB per 100 in league play, which is still solid for a guard. But the guys that should be our leading DRBers (JO, Gip, and Shane) are where they need to be too.
No, he is rebounding the ball just fine, just not good enough for it to be mentioned more than once. Frankly it just the issue of lowered expectations that I've mentioned more than once, my problem I guess.
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Couple little trends on individual players =
**Tay, last 6 games, is 7-12 from 3pt and is shooting 59.6 eFG%
** Will, last 6 games, is 12-24 from 3pt and is shooting 65.8 eFG%
** Gip is shooting 78.6% (11-14) and Shane is 83.3% (12-14) from FT in league play
** Angel's 47 assists are the best in league play
** Will, Angel, Tay, and Shane -- all 4 are in the top 8 in A/TO ratio in Big12 play
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Where do you find stats exclusive to Big 12 play? All I can find are starts for total games played.
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? LBBIQ, my perception after looking at the Big 12 only stats : that the reason Will gets more minutes than Martavious is turnover and fouls per 100 :dunno:
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I use statsheet.com a lot. But i have used Big12sports.com, Kstatesports.com, Espn and even occasionally yahooSports
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Where do you find stats exclusive to Big 12 play? All I can find are starts for total games played.
http://statsheet.com/mcb/teams/kansas-state/players?&stats=conference
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Notable:
The return of McOrebs.
5 Oboard game and back to back 9 RB games. Plus a really efficient offensive game, 18 PTs with an offensive rating of 148.
Rod is shooting .429 in Big 12 games, back to where we expected after he struggled in the OOC (only .250)...
The 2 spot.
I've given my share of critique to the 2 spot, but back to back solid games, and really decent the last 4.
Last 4 games:
Tay 12-24 FG, 7-12 3PT, 31 points.
Will 15-28 FG, 8-14 3PT, 41 points.
If those 2 can combine to get 18 PPG on a regular basis and 4-7 from 3, that does a lot for this offense and Rod. Tay has quietly raised his 3PT% up to .417 (.500 in Big 12 play!), tying Shane for the best on the team on the season, which leads us to...
Slumping Shane:
5-23 overall the last 3 games. 1-9 from 3 the last 2. We knew he'd have some down shooting eventually, hopefully he can stop the slide. However he has been flying up the per100s assists (4 in each of the last 3 games) plus has maintained solid dboarding, so he's still doing plenty to help this team.
Gip it inside:
The Cats have made an effort to get Gip involved and he's had double digit scoring games 2 of the last 3. More importantly he's been able to stay on the floor while avoiding foul trouble. He's our 2nd most efficient scorer in Big 12 play to Rod, and remember he only played 9 minutes in Ames...
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Also nice to see Angel hit 3 of 6 from 3pt last night. Bringing his total up to 8 for 36 (22.2) in conf play. Hope this can get him going to go along with the 4 other players shooting 38% or better from 3 --
Tay 50.0%
Rod 42.9%
Shane 39.5%
Will 38.2%
Of the 11 guys we play, 9 are at 50% or better in conf games (Nino barely missing at 48.3)
I was pretty critical of the ORs we were getting. 38 ORs in our last 3 games and we now have more ORs than our opp (90-87). Much better and a great sign that we had 9 guys get into the stat sheet with an OR
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We are 2-4 when our OR% <= 30%. And one of those two wins was our second worst offensive performance of the year.
The correlations to OE and DE for both of our rebounding stats are much stronger than the TO stats.
While TO% is what we are best at, it isn't as important to this team's statistical efficiency or plain old wins and losses as rebounding.
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We are 2-4 when our OR% <= 30%. And one of those two wins was our second worst offensive performance of the year.
The correlations to OE and DE for both of our rebounding stats are much stronger than the TO stats.
While TO% is what we are best at, it isn't as important to this team's statistical efficiency or plain old wins and losses as rebounding.
Good point.
kenpom had a somewhat interesting blog today about being "good" at rebounding. http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/entry/when_rebounding_needs_no_adjective
When rebounding needs no adjective
by Ken Pomeroy on Wednesday, February 6, 2013
I always wonder why analysts get away with saying a team is good at “rebounding”, thereby conflating both offensive and defensive aspects to the skill. Nobody says a team is good at “turnovers” or “shooting” and means that to say a team is good at those things both offensively and defensively.
Before you send the e-mail, I understand why rebounding is referred to differently. It’s essentially the same act whether it occurs after a team’s own shot or its opponent’s. And rebounds were not differentiated statistically until about 1991 so generations before that had no way to distinguish between the offensive and defensive versions. Some of those traditions linger today and I get it. Still, rebounding stats were modernized a few years before the internet happened, yet people referring to rebounding margin in a broadcast are held in higher regard than those who do research using printed encyclopedias.
Things are coming around, though. The Big Ten Network’s Dave Revsine is the honorary chair of the Foundation for Rebounding Percentage Awareness and takes great pain during each Minnesota broadcast to inform viewers about the Gophers’ offensive rebounding prowess and their puzzling weakness on the defensive glass. There are many others like him, both on the national networks and calling games locally. (These aren’t the only ones, but shout-outs are in order to South Carolina’s Andy Demetra and BYU’s Greg Wrubell for advancing the cause.)
Minnesota’s case might seem unusual, but it’s not as rare as you might think. The top ten teams in offensive rebounding percentage last season had the following ranks in defensive rebounding percentage: 34, 215, 117, 64, 219, 76, 78, 130, 83, and 25. As David Hess pointed out last season, the correlation in the D-I universe between a team’s offensive and defensive rebounding is surprisingly weak. I’ve plotted the last five seasons of team-level data below.
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(My executive summary to why rebounding margin is evil comes down to two things: It combines only loosely-related skills, and field goal percentage skews the raw rebounding figures that go into it.)
That’s not to say there’s no relationship between the two skills at all, though. A very good offensive rebounding team is more likely than not to be above average at defensive defensive rebounding. But, it’s rare to be great at both. Of the 100 best offensive rebounding seasons over the past five years, just nine also had one of the top 100 defensive rebounding seasons.
Colorado State leads the nation in rebound margin this season, and I suppose it’s fair to say they are a great rebounding team. The only reason I know they lead in rebounding margin is because it’s mentioned on nearly every one of their broadcasts. It makes sense, because they currently reside in the top three in the country in both offensive (42.1%, third) and defensive rebounding percentage (77.7%, first).
It’s equally interesting that CSU is doing this without a lot of big people. Their effective height ranks 268th. Yes, they have Colton Iverson (6-10, 261 - thanks for the precise weight measurements, CSU), who is indeed a large human being, but the nominees for best supporting role in a rebounding juggernaut go to 6-5 Pierce Hornung, 6-6 Greg Smith, and 6-4 Daniel Bejarano. These guys are front-line players, giving away inches in almost every game they play. Larry Eustachy isn’t really doing anything gimmicky - his guards are not involved in rebounding at all. Three guys on the floor, two of them undersized, are responsible for almost all of the rebounds on both ends.
Since there are many teams in the Mountain West that aren’t interested in or good at offensive rebounding, I think it’s a safe bet that the Rams will finish with the best defensive rebounding percentage in the nation. Their offensive rebounding may slip a little, but since they’ve grabbed about 39% of available offensive boards in conference play, maybe not by much. Still, what they’re doing is rare. Only one team has finished top five on both sides of the glass in the past decade (2006 Texas, who ranked fifth in both).
So yeah, just saying Colorado State is a great rebounding team is accurate and by using rebounding margin, you’ll get to that conclusion. But I’d still say it waters down the enormity of their accomplishment this season. It’s extremely rare to simultaneously dominate the offensive and defensive glass and it’s a feat that can’t be appreciated by viewing rebounding as a single entity.
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Good guard play ---
Angel ave 11.6 in his last 7 gms. Made 20 of last 21 from FT line
Will 68.3 eFG%, 8.8 pts, 9-16 3pt last 5 gms
Tay 62.9 eFG%, 8.2 Pts, 9-16 3pt last 5 gms
And Big Gip -- 12.8 Pts, 21-34 Fg, 5.8 reb last 4 gms and making 74% FT in conf play
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg845.imageshack.us%2Fimg845%2F703%2Fkstate21013overallper10.png&hash=8da49b04a4af9ca24808374efc8676956ce379fa)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F7051%2Fkstate21013big12per100r.png&hash=227103ad5262f524eaf93167ba970e1b4a129005)
Now 4 players scoring at 22+ points per 100 in Big 12 play making it extremely tough to guard us. Plus Tay continues to improve and has become our best 3PT shooter. Nice balanced and efficient offense.
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I decided to add a little context to per 100 possession ratings, so I compiled per 100 stats for the categories going back 10 seasons to 2003. To qualify, players had to play at least 1/3 of the available minutes.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F116%2Fkstate200312big12per100.png&hash=145441fc8c0c79cc84c3f7d6dabbafab1863c527)
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Awesome
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those charts are calling weber a rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) for only getting jhr 14.6 minutes/game. also it's great to see that 12-13 art is the greatest assist king of all time.
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those charts are calling weber a rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) for only getting jhr 14.6 minutes/game. also it's great to see that 12-13 art is the greatest assist king of all time.
#TeamJO
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those charts are calling weber a rough ridin' respect for only getting jhr 14.6 minutes/game. also it's great to see that 12-13 art is the greatest assist king of all time.
yeah. It's ridiculously glaring based on those numbers.
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Fan, could we see a perspective on least turnover per 100 rather than most? maybe fouls too, but definitely interested in turnovers. seems more relevent to the current team. Perhaps that's too difficult... :dunno: TIA
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I knew Beas was good at putting the ball in the hoop but damn, that's a ridiculous outlier.
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I knew Beas was good at putting the ball in the hoop but damn, that's a ridiculous outlier.
Yeah. Wow. His O and D board numbers are nuts too.
Season GP MPG PPG FG% 3FG% FT% APG RPG BPG SPG
2007-08 33 31.5 26.2 53.2 37.9 77.4 1.2 12.4 1.6 1.3
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something is wrong with Angel's per 100 turnover #s
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg39.imageshack.us%2Fimg39%2F6901%2Fkstate21213overallper10.png&hash=c1de1befcc3f5a26199d2a0cea5e08695cb949c0)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg827.imageshack.us%2Fimg827%2F6282%2Fkstate21213big12per100r.png&hash=c2dc7431dadfe04d691021d87e0b563939489067)
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Fan, could we see a perspective on least turnover per 100 rather than most? maybe fouls too, but definitely interested in turnovers. seems more relevent to the current team. Perhaps that's too difficult... :dunno: TIA
Not difficult. I debated which way to go for TOs and fouls. Here's both of those with the least.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg594.imageshack.us%2Fimg594%2F1446%2Fkstate200312per100ratin.png&hash=8cd0c684a30172c58ecd1d7540f337b831f02a4f)
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something is wrong with Angel's per 100 turnover #s
I'm guessing the year is tagged wrong and that was his number in '11 not '12.
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Thank _Fan.
looks like even more pro-JO data.
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A month ago a made a 2012 to 2013 season comparison chart for the per 100 numbers, here is the updated version. Sorted by best improvement differential per stat.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg829.imageshack.us%2Fimg829%2F6981%2Fkstate13to12per100chart.png&hash=0d3807d3fd7bb498e91febe53e8c6fb0a7038137)
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Big 12 games only; 2012 to 2013 comparison chart:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg849.imageshack.us%2Fimg849%2F932%2Fkstateconf13to12per100c.png&hash=77d319553182ac424b0627e98f560c279edd4cd6)
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Shane's improvement this year is probably the most drastic I've seen from 1 year to the next.
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something is wrong with Angel's per 100 turnover #s
I'm guessing the year is tagged wrong and that was his number in '11 not '12.
confirmed. thanks!
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Shane's improvement this year is probably the most drastic I've seen from 1 year to the next.
I've got yearly per 100 possession charts for each team going back to 03 (sorted a bit different). At some point I'll try to format them and put them up here. Its is a different way to look at each team, and then you can look year by year and see improvements, etc.
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something is wrong with Angel's per 100 turnover #s
I'm guessing the year is tagged wrong and that was his number in '11 not '12.
confirmed. thanks!
2011-12 is listed as "12" beside the player, so 12 is last year, 13 is this year, etc. This year's players/stats were not included yet.
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something is wrong with Angel's per 100 turnover #s
I'm guessing the year is tagged wrong and that was his number in '11 not '12.
confirmed. thanks!
2011-12 is listed as "12" beside the player, so 12 is last year, 13 is this year, etc. This year's players/stats were not included yet.
ah. thanks for clarifying. love this thread :grin:
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Seasonal charts for per 100 possession numbers going back to 03. Each chart is sorted by Points per 100.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg21.imageshack.us%2Fimg21%2F3694%2Fkstateyearlyper100part1.png&hash=d754c613b831ccb474a7be3afe27f6ccc9f08739)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg7.imageshack.us%2Fimg7%2F6590%2Fkstateyearlyper100part2.png&hash=a15541d5be31c0b4327528717d676237a54e99fd)
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Unless I'm reading this wrong, Will got too many minutes last year. I guess recruiting is as much to blame as anything else.
Also, lol at Cartier's %minutes in 2004.
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Unless I'm reading this wrong, Will got too many minutes last year. I guess recruiting is as much to blame as anything else.
Also, lol at Cartier's %minutes in 2004.
He was just coming into his own and got hurt in a loss to St. Louis and missed nearly a month. Once he came back, he was never quite 100% and only had three 20+ minute games the rest of the season.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg690.imageshack.us%2Fimg690%2F2025%2Fkstate21713overallper10.png&hash=5c29c93a1023b0d680543da1e62a0ddf7791cada)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg692.imageshack.us%2Fimg692%2F3228%2Fkstate21713big12per100r.png&hash=2583a50425f67d45c8936692016cbd2cc1ef82ab)
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2/3 of the conf season in the books
Angel is 2nd in steals 1.9 (Smart is 1st at 3.25)
Angel is 3rd in FT% at 81.8 and he has made 24 of last 27
Rod is 5th in scoring 16.3 and 7th in eFG% (57.1)
Will, Shane and Angel are 1st, 2nd, 3rd in A/TO ratio (3.1,3.0,2.8) ---- Kstate 4th in nation A/TO in conf games
Shane (43.9) and Rod (42.4) are 4th and 5th in 3pt% and their 25 3s is tied for 8th
JO is tied for 2nd in blocks (1.83) and has highest block % rate of anyone (JO 12.2 Withey 9.0)
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Will, Shane and Angel having the top 3 A/TO's in conference play is absolutely amazing.
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Will, Shane and Angel having the top 3 A/TO's in conference play is absolutely amazing.
This was something I wouldn't have imagined in a million years. Plus, this is an incredible sign for the tourney/next year.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg23.imageshack.us%2Fimg23%2F654%2Fkstate21913overallper10.png&hash=1c93809530a254683a08af409988b42bca46bc66)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg17.imageshack.us%2Fimg17%2F1200%2Fkstate21913big12per100r.png&hash=82168abaa5e216fd6cfeb6c5412ef82bd61b2b67)
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Seasonal charts for per 100 possession numbers going back to 03. Each chart is sorted by Points per 100.
reaffirms Jason Bennett's shot blocking eliteness and how terrible of a person wally judge was. its a shame Beasley hasn't adjusted to the NBA
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I kind of like Omari. And his /100 stats kind of back that up. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes at the 2/3.
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I kind of like Omari. And his /100 stats kind of back that up. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes at the 2/3.
I hope he starts at the 3 next year.
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I kind of like Omari. And his /100 stats kind of back that up. I wouldn't mind seeing him get a few more minutes at the 2/3.
I hope he starts at the 3 next year.
yes, I think he can be double digit scorer for this team if he gets 25+ minutes. I am optimistic he gives us some big buckets this season as go down the stretch.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg27.imageshack.us%2Fimg27%2F4803%2Fkstate22413overallper10.png&hash=96e75f30ce7df96d7369520173b7c37b0f3efd8a)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg812.imageshack.us%2Fimg812%2F6821%2Fkstate22413big12per100r.png&hash=d98c21c691d14e1be74868715eb78f8f46e6c926)
Big 12 3PT shooting:
Tay - .483
Shane - .460
Will - .412
Rod - .403
Angel - .302 (42% last 6 games)
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Interesting...
Will had a lot of heat on him as he wasn't shooting 3s well at all. Now 21-45 (46.4%) in his last 12 games
Our OR% was pretty dismal and many were frustrated. Now 38.1 OR% last 8 games
JO was getting a dose of bashing. Last 3 games, 24 reb 11 blocks in 61 minutes. Better production indeed
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Sounds like the team reads goEMAW.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg341.imageshack.us%2Fimg341%2F8665%2Fkstate22613overallper10.png&hash=05852ba87eb28dd29a0729371a015c3bf6a6e1c8)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg585.imageshack.us%2Fimg585%2F6821%2Fkstate22613big12per100r.png&hash=6a588ee2bc47fadcf0d71fce2e2aa0e7d7fc9ce9)
Note: When factoring the ratings, I account for min% played, but also potential possessions, so that is factored into all games. Therefore, JO dropped a bit, even though he wasn't even in Manhattan. Mostly this is because I'm lazy, but I think the ratings still have plenty of value.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg849.imageshack.us%2Fimg849%2F8664%2Fkstate3313overallper100.png&hash=a7170e45f5a41867197d0e2158cc909e7148c59e)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg545.imageshack.us%2Fimg545%2F2003%2Fkstate3313big12per100ra.png&hash=e4ccc6fc02bc7ec622cbb4e254066e4d4fec2be5)
JO's Big 12 boarding and shot blocking have been incredible.
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JO's Big 12 boarding and shot blocking have been incredible.
his minutes per game has been what i've found hardest to believe.
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JO's Big 12 boarding and shot blocking have been incredible.
his minutes per game has been what i've found hardest to believe.
Who would you take minutes away from to give to JO?
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JO's Big 12 boarding and shot blocking have been incredible.
his minutes per game has been what i've found hardest to believe.
Meh. Its a mix of foul trouble and games where Gip plays well. I have no major problem with it.
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Who would you take minutes away from to give to JO?
first johnson, then gipson if he still needs more.
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Meh. Its a mix of foul trouble and games where Gip plays well. I have no major problem with it.
you're kinda in a rut of "meh, the status quo is fine" posting lately.
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Meh. Its a mix of foul trouble and games where Gip plays well. I have no major problem with it.
you're kinda in a rut of "meh, the status quo is fine" posting lately.
Maybe, but it's hard to complain about a lot. The only solution to JO's minutes is playing him with Gip and that's not going to happen. I don't think we are a better team if we do that either.
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The only solution to JO's minutes is playing him with Gip.
no it isn't.
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The only solution to JO's minutes is playing him with Gip.
no it isn't.
Well, I can understand the split then. Gip hasn't been terrible.
Again, I'd say foul problems have been a big factor for JO. It was the main reason he didn't play more last night.
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I'd say foul problems have been a big factor for JO. It was the main reason he didn't play more last night.
if he fouled out every game, i wouldn't say a word about his minutes. seeing johnson in the game when giphr still has 6 fouls to spend is stupid and enraging.
playing gipson more than jhr isn't as egregious, but i do think jhr gives you more, and ideally i'd like to see him playing significantly more minutes than gipson.
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I think JO gives us more on defense and Gip more on offense. And oscar probably defers to the offense guy.
I'd rather not see DJamer as much either, but oscar is pretty struck on his 2 foul first half deal unless we're on big trouble.
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Before y-day, In Gip's previous 9 games he had been ave 10.9 pts 5.0 reb in 20 minutes of action, shooting 61% FG, 75% FT. I think he is earning his 20 minutes of playing time
JO has earned his minutes with his play of late too. While he has only ave 4.9 pts, 46% FG and 50% FT in his past 9 gms, he has been a beast the last 5 games with Reb and Blks -----96 minutes 38 boards 16 blks
Everyone would like to see JO and Gip combine for the 40 minutes. If both have 2 first half fouls in the 1st half, i would be OK with him playing 1 of them and risk getting the 3rd foul.
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Who would you take minutes away from to give to JO?
first johnson, then gipson if he still needs more.
I agree that he should be getting every single one of DJamer's minutes, but I think the biggest reason JO isn't getting more playing time is his fouls.
I can't think of a time when DJamer was getting minutes for the sake of DJamer getting minutes. It's almost always because JO and Gip are in foul trouble already.
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Who would you take minutes away from to give to JO?
first johnson, then gipson if he still needs more.
I agree that he should be getting every single one of DJamer's minutes, but I think the biggest reason JO isn't getting more playing time is his fouls.
I can't think of a time when DJamer was getting minutes for the sake of DJamer getting minutes. It's almost always because JO and Gip are in foul trouble already.
I mean in the foul trouble situation its either DJamer or Diaz. I'd pick DJamer and the stats seem to offer some validity there. With our availability of bigs I think its better safe than sorry and keep them on the bench with two fouls in the first half.
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2 fouls each for gipson and jhr isn't foul trouble.
we play 4 guards. they don't play together. that's 10 fouls for the game at one position. there's no reason for johnson to ever see the court, and certainly not because our coaching staff is nervous about only having six fouls to give at the center position in the second half.
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Updated charts comparing last year to this year.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg547.imageshack.us%2Fimg547%2F4751%2Fkstate13to12per100overa.png&hash=56bb002ba1871aa884830a91f9e1cc3c7169540d)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg823%2F7074%2Fkstate13to12per100big12.png&hash=e69564df0dd5a2793610b5f30092b5069bf5e54a)
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Shane's +10 in points/100 poss. :love: :love: :love:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg195%2F5094%2Fkstate3613overallper100.png&hash=b74f9ea94a231e5933b1c757d349c254e4a4543b)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimageshack.us%2Fa%2Fimg803%2F9836%2Fkstate3613big12per100ra.png&hash=1096aef64ff2d4596544ca3410f5a45da4c414a8)
In a bit of a surprise, Gip surpasses Rod on the per 100 chart. Granted, Gip has played less than half the available minutes, but still impressive.
And as PP has pointed out well in other threads, Angel is a complete stud. This program is in great shape for at least a couple of years with him here.
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He's going to destroy Steven Henson's career assists record. Honestly wouldn't be surprised if he broke it before conference play of his senior year.
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Top kenpom "similar to" comparos for K-State 2013! (I put Will's first because his are great, I really like that the numbers don't profile.)
Will - 08 Austin Johnson, 09 Tweety Carter
Angel - 12 Shabazz Napier, 09 Jacob Pullen
Rod - 11 Kyle Singler
Tay - 12 Stu Douglass
Shane - 09 Dan Werner
Omari - 10 Theron Jenkins
Gip - Nobody of note this year, but last year; 09 Marcus Morris
JO - Nobody of note, but freshman year; 10 Wally Judge
DJamer - 08 Ron Anderson
Nino - 08 Jamal Boykin
Diaz - 13 Thomas Gipson
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Will also has 07 Dominique Kirk and 08 Trent Meacham as similar players.
Plus all of Will's comparisons listed are rated 900 or better.
Something else to consider when using this tool is the level of similarity in the list of comparables. A score over 900 is a great match. Anything above 850 is still useful.
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Diaz - 13 Thomas Gipson
lolwut?
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Will and 09 Tweety Carter is hilarious.
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Final Big 12 Per 100 numbers, compared to last season. Also added shooting% stats.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg443.imageshack.us%2Fimg443%2F1038%2F2013finalbig12compariso.png&hash=de6d5136091dc015b1682cc9e298d9cb411e5a43)
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg706.imageshack.us%2Fimg706%2F1702%2Fkstate2013seasonper100r.png&hash=19593853579a82b5afaffaa2c6df16273d906e07)
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EDIT: Thanks for these _FAN. It's a great tool. A lot of what I see with my eyes matches up with the /100 stats, but there are always a few surprises. Here are some of my thoughts/reflections after reading the final stats.
It would be great if Shane became better at Dribble Drive. I realize oscar's O is built for Jumpshots, but he's been okay at creating his own shot this year. I would love to see him attack the rim instead of settling for mid range jumpers when he does that.
Angel could be a little more efficient on offense. I'm happy to see his 3PT% end up where it did though. It would be lovely if he gains some touch around the rim. He's gotten there all year, but had trouble finishing over bigs.
Gip. Stop fouling and turning the ball over so much. He'll be fine next year, but if wants to play more minutes both of those have to come down.
I don't know what my expectations are for Will. Maybe he can produce something similar to his freshman year? I don't hate him coming off screen and shooting mid range shots. Just be the best version of yourself, Will.
Omari: Shoot the cover off the ball this summer. He's shown flashes of talent this year, but consistency and shooting will both need to improve.
Nino: Keep on hustling? I don't see many places his can improve on the offensive end. This year feels like the ceiling for him. If he can limit fouls and play better defense, his /game stats will go up.
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It would be great if Shane became better at Dribble Drive. I realize oscar's O is built for Jumpshots, but he's been okay at creating his own shot this year. I would love to see him attack the rim instead of settling for mid range jumpers when he does that.
Angel could be a little more efficient on offense. I'm happy to see his 3PT% end up where it did though. It would be lovely if he gains some touch around the rim. He's gotten there all year, but had trouble finishing over bigs.
Gip. Stop fouling and turning the ball over so much. He'll be fine next year, but if wants to play more minutes both of those have to come down.
I don't know what my expectations are for Will. Maybe he can produce something similar to his freshman year? I don't hate him coming off screen and shooting mid range shots. Just be the best version of yourself, Will.
Omari: Shoot the cover off the ball this summer. He's shown flashes of talent this year, but consistency and shooting will both need to improve.
Nino: Keep on hustling? I don't see many places his can improve on the offensive end. This year feels like the ceiling for him. If he can limit fouls and play better defense, his /game stats will go up.
Agree on Shane, no reason he can't do some of the things Rodney did this year as far as attacking the rim. And he needs to be a better oboarder.
Angel will be more efficient next year. I can see 35-36% on 3s, but even bigger would be getting to 45% on 2s.
Gip just needs to continue to work on his body. Biggest thing is figuring out how to be a better defender in the post and how to stay on the floor 25 minutes a game.
Will's numbers this year (efficiency) are nearly identical to his freshman year. My hope is that he can just makes some improvements because we all know a) he will start and b) will play 70% minutes (at least).
Omari, I don't know what to think. Needs to be more of a factor.
Nino, hopefully can get better and work on some offensive skills. Would be nice if he can play some 4 and Shane some 3 together.
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the easiest and most likely path for art to improve his 2pt fg% is to get more fouls called when he drives. i like southie shooting mid range js. he's pretty great at it.
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the easiest and most likely path for art to improve his 2pt fg% is to get more fouls called when he drives. i like southie shooting mid range js. he's pretty great at it.
Yeah, I'd just like to see him get to the FT line a bit more often. I think he's capable of that.
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Yeah, I'd just like to see him get to the FT line a bit more often. I think he's capable of that.
that would certainly help.