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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: Ghost of Stan Parrish on January 12, 2013, 04:03:57 PM
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Because I felt like wasting a bit of time, upon no popular demand whatsoever: here’s my list of the 40 top KSU players, broken down by position.
My starting 5 is: Pullen, Richmond, Rolando, Boozer and Beasley.
I've little doubt Angel Rodriguez will be on this list by the time he’s done, but McGruder is the only active player in my top 40 now. Even so, I'm sure there's a bit of "recency bias" here, especially further down the position lists... but anyway, enjoy!
POINT GUARD
1. Jacob Pullen (00s)
School's all-time leading scorer
Key Stats: #1 all-time points, #2 all-time assists
Accolades: Frances Pomeroy Naismith Award, 2x All-Conference
Post-KSU: Euroballer
2. Lon Kruger (70s)
The Player Of The Year
Key Stat: #18 all-time points (assists not kept during his era)
Accolades: Conf. Newcomer of the Year 1972, Conference POY 1973, Conference POY 1974
Post-KSU: NBA drafted; did not play
3. Steve Henson (80s)
He's not popular on this board, but he was good
Key Stats: #1 all-time assists, #6 all-time points
Accolades: All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 238 games played
4. Denis Clemente (00s)
Fastest player in KSU history?
Key Stats: #10 all-time assists, #15 all-time points
Accolades: Conf. Newcomer of Year
Post-KSU: Euroballer
5. Tyrone Adams (70s) EDIT: not a pg, my mistake...
Overlooked player
Key Stats: #4 all-time assists, #12 all-time points
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: NBA drafted; did not play
6. Anthony Beane (90s)
Key Stat: #6 all-time assists
Accolades: Conf. Newcomer of Year
Post-KSU: --
7. Elliot Hatcher (90s)
Key Stat: led KSU in scoring & assists for 2 seasons
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: Euroballer
8. Marcus Ziegler (90s)
Key Stat: #1 career assist/TO ratio ... by far
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: --
SHOOTING GUARD
1. Mitch Richmond (80s)
Best NBA player in school history
Key Stat: #4 career ppg
Accolades: 2d team AA, All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick, NBA ROY, 6x NBA All-Star, NBA All-Star MVP, 20K+ NBA points
2. Mike Evans
”Purple Popgun” #1 (70s)
Key Stats: #2 all-time points (pre-3 point line: 890 buckets scored v. 653 buckets for Pullen :surprised:)
Accolades: Conference POY 1977, Conference POY 1978, 3x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick, 4K+ NBA points
3. Chuckie Williams (70s)
”Purple Popgun” #2
Key Stats: #8 all-time points, #9 career ppg
Accolades: 2d team AA, 2x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick
4. Ernie Barrett (50s)
Mr. K-State ‘n stuff
Key Stat: led Final Four team in scoring
Accolades: 2d team AA
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick
5. Howie Shannon (40s)
#1 in the NBA draft, #5 on this list
Key Stat: led Final Four team in scoring
Accolades: All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA overall #1 pick
6. Jean Derouillere (90s)
The “Pippen” to Ski Jones’ “Jordan”
Key Stat: #8 career ppg
Accolades: Conf. Newcomer of Year
Post-KSU: CBA
7. Will Scott (80s)
Raining 3-pointers
Key Stat: #1 career 3pt% (51.3%) – only player to hit over half in school history
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: --
8. Ayome “Paco” May (90s)
illness hurt his career
Key Stat: #25 all-time points
Accolades: Freshman All-American
Post-KSU: --
9. F. I. Reynolds
Was the school's first All-American (1917), so he must have been good
Key Stat: one of only 3 consensus All-Americans in KSU history
Accolades: All-American 1917
Post-KSU: keeping things quiet on the Western Front?
SMALL FORWARD
1. Rolando Blackman (80s)
Sports Illustrated cover boy
Key Stat: #3 all-time points
Accolades: Conference POY 1980, 3x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick, 4x NBA All-Star, 17K+ NBA points
2. Willie Murrell (60s)
Led KSU to its most recent Final Four
Key Stats: #5 career ppg, #6 career double-doubles
Accolades: 2x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted; 3 seasons in ABA
3. Askia Jones (90s)
Ski Lift
Key Stat: #4 all-time points
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: NBA cup of tea; Euroballer
4. Bill Walker (00s)
Damn those weak knees…
Key Stat: two 30-point games for KSU
Accolades: Freshman All-American
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 157 games played
5. Cartier Martin (00s)
Key Stat: #7 all-time points
Accolades: Conf. 6th Man of Year
Post-KSU: NBA undrafted, but 143 games played ... and counting
6. Rodney McGruder
Can move up if he gets consistent!
Key Stat: top 20 all-time points
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: ???
7. Curtis Redding (70s)
Hot Dog
Key Stat: #7 career ppg
Accolades: Conf. Newcomer of Year
Post-KSU: transferred to St. Johns, drafted
POWER FORWARD
1. Bob Boozer (50s)
Two-time All-American
Key Stats: #2 career ppg, #4 career rebs.
Accolades: All-American 1958, All-American 1959, Conference POY 1958, Conference POY 1959
Post-KSU: NBA #1 overall pick, NBA All-Star, 13K NBA points
2. Norris “Sarge” Coleman (80s)
Stayed loyal to KSU when NCAA encouraged him to leave
Key Stats: #3 career ppg, #10 career rpg
Accolades: 2x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, Euroballer
3. Jamar Samuels (00s)
I’m surprised he’s at #3 on my list…
Key Stats: #11 all-time points, #6 all-time rebs, #7 all-time blocks
Accolades: Conf. 6th Man of Year
Post-KSU: Euroballer
4. Lew Hitch (50s)
Key Stat: Led Final Four team in rebouding
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 414 games played
5. Jeremiah Massey (00s)
Key Stat: #10 career ppg
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: Euroleague “Most Spectacular Player”
6. Manny Dies (90s)
The Collegian’s biggest fan
Key Stats: #2 all-time blocks, #17 all-time rebs
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: Euroballer
7. David Hoskins (00s)
Key Stat: #25 points in a season
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: --
8. Fred McCoy (80s)
Fat Fred might be on this list mostly because he's a personal fave
Key Stat: #50 all-time points
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: --
CENTER
1. Mike Beasley (00s)
What if he stayed four years!
Key Stats: #1 career ppg, #1 season rebounding
Accolades: All-American 2008, Conference POY 2008
Post-KSU: NBA 1st round draft pick, 4K+ NBA points
2. Jack Parr (50s)
Wanted to win to an unhealthy level, frankly
Key Stats: #1 career rpg, #3 all-time double-doubles
Accolades: 3x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 66 games played
3. Ed Nealy (80s)
Immovable object
Key Stats: #1 all-time rebs, #10 all-time points, #9 all-time assists
Accolades: All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 540 games played
4. Dick Knostman (50s)
Key Stats: #3 career ppg, #5 all-time rebs
Accolades: 2d team AA, 2x All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted, 5 games played
5. David Hall (70s)
Key Stats: #3 all-time rebs, #4 all-time double-doubles
Accolades: All-Conference
Post-KSU: NBA drafted; did not play
6. Steve Mitchell (70s)
Key Stats: #7 all-time rebs, #17 all-time points
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: NBA drafted; did not play
7. Curt Kelly (00s)
Key Stats: #4 career fg%, #4 all-time blocks
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: Euroballer
8. Deryl Cunningham (90s)
McDonald’s All-American
Key Stat: #8 all-time rebs
Accolades: --
Post-KSU: CBA, Euroballer
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Why only 40?
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Who would coach it?
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Who would coach it?
Tex or Hartman.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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Why only 40?
Just worked out that way. I didn't feel like wasting the amount of time it would take to get to 50.
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very cool GoSP.
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Who would coach it?
Tex or Hartman.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
I'm on a break from all coaching debates right now...
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Nice work, Massey and CK are vastly underrated
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Nealy never played center. We was always at power forward.
Probably won't be popular here, but Evans > Pullen.
That list of shooting guards is just sad. Although Blackman should be on it (and probably Evans and Pullen, too). Blackman started at guard. Adams at small forward :blank: That idiot loses all credibility putting Adams on the point guard list. He should be listed among the small forward, probably just before or after Redding.
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That idiot loses all credibility putting Adams on the point guard list. He should be listed among the small forward, probably just before or after Redding.
:sdeek:
:horrorsurprise:
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I'm sorry, thought Stan was posting someone's else list. Don't mean to be that argumentative. Jankovich and Marshall were points guards for the Blackman/Adams/Nealy teams. And some Brazilian guy who had an identical name and game to some later Brazilian guy.
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Nealy never played center. We was always at power forward.
Probably won't be popular here, but Evans > Pullen.
That list of shooting guards is just sad. Although Blackman should be on it (and probably Evans and Pullen, too). Blackman started at guard. Adams at small forward :blank: That idiot loses all credibility putting Adams on the point guard list. He should be listed among the small forward, probably just before or after Redding.
Ouch man! I did move some guys around from the position they started at for KSU. Richmond was listed at the 3. I know Ro was listed at the 2. But some of that had to do with the personnel they were playing with. But Adams I just whiffed on completely. :embarrassed:
I'm sorry, thought Stan was posting someone's else list. Don't mean to be that argumentative. Jankovich and Marshall were points guards for the Blackman/Adams/Nealy teams. And some Brazilian guy who had an identical name and game to some later Brazilian guy.
Ed-weirdo Galvo I believe. Do I get cred restored for knowing that? :D
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Point guards worth consideration. Wheeler Hughes, who played on Cotton Fitzsimmons' Big-12 championship team, and Louie Small who played for Tex. Small was a juco recruit K-State and KU were after. It was said the recruiting winner would win the Big 8. K-State did and did. But he wasn't around for his senior year -- don't know exactly what happened. Another one and had to leave town was Lakeefe Humphrey who would probably be on any top-5 list had it not been for the underage sex thing.
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Point guards worth consideration. Wheeler Hughes, who played on Cotton Fitzsimmons' Big-12 championship team, and Louie Small who played for Tex. Small was a juco recruit K-State and KU were after. It was said the recruiting winner would win the Big 8. K-State did and did. But he wasn't around for his senior year -- don't know exactly what happened. Another one and had to leave town was Lakeefe Humphrey who would probably be on any top-5 list had it not been for the underage sex thing.
Good stuff. I saw Lakeith play and would've put him on the list if he had stuck around.
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Point guards worth consideration. Wheeler Hughes, who played on Cotton Fitzsimmons' Big-12 championship team, and Louie Small who played for Tex. Small was a juco recruit K-State and KU were after. It was said the recruiting winner would win the Big 8. K-State did and did. But he wasn't around for his senior year -- don't know exactly what happened. Another one and had to leave town was Lakeefe Humphrey who would probably be on any top-5 list had it not been for the underage sex thing.
When I'm super old I'm going to mention Fred Peete in a post like this and no one will know what I'm talking about either. :fatty:
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Point guards worth consideration. Wheeler Hughes, who played on Cotton Fitzsimmons' Big-12 championship team, and Louie Small who played for Tex. Small was a juco recruit K-State and KU were after. It was said the recruiting winner would win the Big 8. K-State did and did. But he wasn't around for his senior year -- don't know exactly what happened. Another one and had to leave town was Lakeefe Humphrey who would probably be on any top-5 list had it not been for the underage sex thing.
When I'm super old I'm going to mention Fred Peete in a post like this and no one will know what I'm talking about either. :fatty:
I'll never forget Casper. Never.
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lol, fthis denis hating list (love you GOSP, just telling you that your list is an idiot)
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Larry Reid was the man
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I thought Massey was a better player than JamSam. Fun list though.
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I thought Massey was a better player than JamSam. Fun list though.
Yeah, Samuels is too high on that list.
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good job GOSP. i enjoyed reading that.
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Now rank those 40 overall, the top 5 will tell me everything I need to know.
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Larry Reid was the man
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I thought Massey was a better player than JamSam. Fun list though.
Is this like at their peak or overall? Because I think JamSam is higher because he's a 4 year player.
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Curtis Kelly should be higher imo
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where is paco?
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where is paco?
eff you Kim Carnes. Also, Paco's day to day theme song would be Black or White by Michael Jackson.
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where is paco?
eff you Kim Carnes. Also, Paco's day to day theme song would be Black or White by Michael Jackson.
what?
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Larry Reid?
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Thanks for the feedback.
In putting this together I dove headfirst into the record book. I don't think there are any unbreakable records there, but there are some pretty impressive kinda obscure marks where the leader is way out in front of anyone else in KSU history:
Rebounds
1. Ed Nealy (1,069)
2. Jack Parr (889)
3. David Hall (827)
Field Goals
1. Mike Evans (890)
2. Ro Blackman (755)
3. Jake Pullen (653)
3pt fg %
1. Will Scott (51.3%)
2. Steve Henson (44.7%)
3. Mitch Richmond (41.3%)
Will Scott was helped by the 3 point line being new, but he was a deadeye with a set shot. BTW, the top 2 players in 3-point percentage are the same top 2 players in free throw shooting percentage, so they clearly just had a good stroke.
The rebounds and field goal leaders are pretty impressive, yes? But then how sick is it that Beasley had 408 rebounds and 307 field goals in his freshman season? Another two years and he would've held every record in school.
The most unbreakable record might be Marcus Zeigler's career assist-to-turn-over rate of 3.18. That will be tough to top.
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
I definitely used that as a factor, NBA guys definitely got a boost. So did major award winners. But JamSam being listed so high is an example of someone's career numbers at KSU alone looking really impressive.
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how you have J Mas behind Jamar is beyond me. He is my adorable Wooly hero.
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To be fair, he blatantly said it was one guys top 40. If you want to make your own list, no one is stopping you.
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how you have J Mas behind Jamar is beyond me. He is my adorable Wooly hero.
Massey was definitely a highlight of the Wooly era. A highlight among not very many highlights.
Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2
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beas and ck would effing smash and teabag boozer and nealy
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good thread
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what an absolutely amazing list and write up. obvs nobody is going to agree with all of it but wow. fav part was the quick hitter line under each name. great job. :thumbs:
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what an absolutely amazing list and write up. obvs nobody is going to agree with all of it but wow. fav part was the quick hitter line under each name. great job. :thumbs:
Agreed. Great effort.
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My list would include:
Tyrone Davis. Surely some remember him. Played on Asbury's NCAA team. Fought an injury is senior year, but still averaged like 14 plus point.
Mike Wroblewski, blew up his senior season when the center averaged 19 points a game and was all-american. Still owns he K-State single-game scoring record against KU, I think.
Carl Gerlach. Was in the same class as Chuckie Williams. 6-11 center was a 10+ per game scorer and 8+ per game rebounder as junior and senior and a very good defensive player.
Larry Dassie. Was a juco player. 6-4 power forward Really came on as a senior when he averaged 13 points and 8.7 rebounds on the 1977 Big 8 championship team (K-State's last). Died young in a car crash in Spain while playing for a team there.
Small forward Jerry Venerable 15.5 points, 7.9 rebound in two years as a juco transfer. All conference on Cotton's 1970 championship team.
Dean Harris. What could have been? Died in a car wreck the summer after his freshmen year. Started as a 6-8 power forward as a freshman averaging 7.4 points and 6.5 rebounds.
Ernie Kusnyer. 6-5 forward average 12.7 pts and 7.5 rebs. in three year career 71, 72, 73. Was on two Big 8 championship teams.
Steve Honeycutt, point guard on Tex's last Big 8 championship team. Played 67 through 69. Didn't keep assists back then or he'd probably be near top. Also gets Zeigler off the list.
Others, Randy Reed, Tony Kitt, Larry Williams, Charles Bledsoe
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When I was a kid, I got Tyrone Davis autograph on a foam k-state cat claw. Pretty great.
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The number of Evans' FGs just blows my mind. And Beasley's numbers by comparison.
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The number of Evans' FGs just blows my mind. And Beasley's numbers by comparison.
Yeah, Beasley was really rough ridin' good. Also, rumors of him being traded to Memphis. Guess they want/need a scorer.
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Beasley had 20 is the Suns' win Saturday at Chicago. Maybe they were showcasing him because he hasn't been getting many minutes.
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
Why not?
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My list would include:
Tyrone Davis. Surely some remember him. Played on Asbury's NCAA team. Fought an injury is senior year, but still averaged like 14 plus point.
Mike Wroblewski, blew up his senior season when the center averaged 19 points a game and was all-american. Still owns he K-State single-game scoring record against KU, I think.
Carl Gerlach. Was in the same class as Chuckie Williams. 6-11 center was a 10+ per game scorer and 8+ per game rebounder as junior and senior and a very good defensive player.
Larry Dassie. Was a juco player. 6-4 power forward Really came on as a senior when he averaged 13 points and 8.7 rebounds on the 1977 Big 8 championship team (K-State's last). Died young in a car crash in Spain while playing for a team there.
Small forward Jerry Venerable 15.5 points, 7.9 rebound in two years as a juco transfer. All conference on Cotton's 1970 championship team.
Dean Harris. What could have been? Died in a car wreck the summer after his freshmen year. Started as a 6-8 power forward as a freshman averaging 7.4 points and 6.5 rebounds.
Ernie Kusnyer. 6-5 forward average 12.7 pts and 7.5 rebs. in three year career 71, 72, 73. Was on two Big 8 championship teams.
Steve Honeycutt, point guard on Tex's last Big 8 championship team. Played 67 through 69. Didn't keep assists back then or he'd probably be near top. Also gets Zeigler off the list.
Others, Randy Reed, Tony Kitt, Larry Williams, Charles Bledsoe
How old are you?
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
Why not?
Well, if we applied this logic to football we'd have like, 2 good football players on our team. And Michael Bishop and Collin Klein wouldn't even make the top 25.
Also, Jacob Pullen is probably the best player in K-State history based on intangibles and what he did for K-State. Should someone get the edge over him as a K-State great because they went to the NBA?
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Steve Henson is the best pg we've ever had and its not close. After that, I'd take all shooting guards. Just ridiculous talent at that position for the Cats.
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
Why not?
Well, if we applied this logic to football we'd have like, 2 good football players on our team. And Michael Bishop and Collin Klein wouldn't even make the top 25.
Also, Jacob Pullen is probably the best player in K-State history based on intangibles and what he did for K-State. Should someone get the edge over him as a K-State great because they went to the NBA?
Tuck answer.
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I think career post KSU should not be considered. just imo.
Why not?
Well, if we applied this logic to football we'd have like, 2 good football players on our team. And Michael Bishop and Collin Klein wouldn't even make the top 25.
Also, Jacob Pullen is probably the best player in K-State history based on intangibles and what he did for K-State. Should someone get the edge over him as a K-State great because they went to the NBA?
No, the logic you applied to the Bishop and Klein example would be if only the post-KSU career were considered. However, that is obviously not what GoSP is doing, and I appreciated the extra effort of detailing their professional careers. One way to look at it is that if you were putting together a team now based on these players in their prime, you would factor in not only the KSU statistics and their intangibles (as you mention), but you would also look at their overall talent level. In hindsight, knowing how they did in their professional career is an indicator of their overall talent level, so it can be considered to a small extent but should not be the primary basis of the rankings.
For instance, when I think of Mitch Richmond, in a way it is difficult for me to separate his short 2-year KSU career from his stellar NBA career. If he had flopped in the NBA, it would probably slightly diminish how great of a KSU player he was in our minds, and we may be more likely to forget about him. But because of his NBA career, it tends to validate and enhance how talented he was and what a stud player he was at KSU. It makes me want to make damn sure he is in my starting 5 in other words.
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Darryl Winston
Former Kansas State basketball player and coach Darryl Winston told The Manhattan Mercury that he wants revenge against the Orange:
"We owe Syracuse one and I'm sticking by that.
"The Syracuse game was so tough because we were playing for the Final Four and we had the game won. We messed up some defensive assignments and the guy just caught the ball and threw up a lucky hook and it went in. I'll vividly remember that game for the rest of my life."
When the Orange takes the court this time against K-State it'll be without center Fab Melo, who is ineligible for the tournament.
http://blog.syracuse.com/orangebasketball/2012/03/former_kansas_state_basketball.html
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Thanks man.....I am so flattered that some still remember me. I busted my butt for our fans and it is an honor to still be remembered. Tyrone Davis #44 94-96 All Big 8 team
My list would include:
Tyrone Davis. Surely some remember him. Played on Asbury's NCAA team. Fought an injury is senior year, but still averaged like 14 plus point.
Mike Wroblewski, blew up his senior season when the center averaged 19 points a game and was all-american. Still owns he K-State single-game scoring record against KU, I think.
Carl Gerlach. Was in the same class as Chuckie Williams. 6-11 center was a 10+ per game scorer and 8+ per game rebounder as junior and senior and a very good defensive player.
Larry Dassie. Was a juco player. 6-4 power forward Really came on as a senior when he averaged 13 points and 8.7 rebounds on the 1977 Big 8 championship team (K-State's last). Died young in a car crash in Spain while playing for a team there.
Small forward Jerry Venerable 15.5 points, 7.9 rebound in two years as a juco transfer. All conference on Cotton's 1970 championship team.
Dean Harris. What could have been? Died in a car wreck the summer after his freshmen year. Started as a 6-8 power forward as a freshman averaging 7.4 points and 6.5 rebounds.
Ernie Kusnyer. 6-5 forward average 12.7 pts and 7.5 rebs. in three year career 71, 72, 73. Was on two Big 8 championship teams.
Steve Honeycutt, point guard on Tex's last Big 8 championship team. Played 67 through 69. Didn't keep assists back then or he'd probably be near top. Also gets Zeigler off the list.
Others, Randy Reed, Tony Kitt, Larry Williams, Charles Bledsoe
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Welcome fellow cat!
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I love this place
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Thanks man.....I am so flattered that some still remember me. I busted my butt for our fans and it is an honor to still be remembered. Tyrone Davis #44 94-96 All Big 8 team
please share funny/crazy/insightful stories with us!
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Asbury stories thread :pray:
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where is paco?
Paco may lives in dallas now. Raises horses and also races them. Hasnt touched a basketball in years. I couldnt believe it either
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Welcome fellow cat!
:thumbs:
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:excited:
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I remember practicing Tyrone Davis turnaround j's in the post in my junior high days.
:cool:
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where is paco?
Paco may lives in dallas now. Raises horses and also races them. Hasnt touched a basketball in years. I couldnt believe it either
oh man. seriously? :lol:
also, some quick questions if you are bored and want to answer them...
question #1- how come no one ever taught gavin how to dribble with his left hand?
question #2- who would have won in a fight between george hill and gerald eaker?
question #3- just how weird of a cat was asbury? feel free to go in depth/elaborate with behind the scenes stories if necessary.
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Askia Jones and Paco May.
:ksu:
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I'd like to nominate Steve Douglas (from you Final Four team) because I dated his daughter.