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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: ksupamplemousse on December 09, 2012, 11:43:50 PM
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Our offense looks like an abortion right now. oscar has clearly instructed Angel not to take the ball to the hoop as much. That is rough ridin' stupid. The only reason we won the GW game is because Angel said "Eff it" and took the ball to the hole relentlessly. Our guards outside of Angel basically dribble the ball around the arc, passing it sometimes, and try to avoid getting their pocket picked because there is no way in hell they are beating their man off the dribble. New plan. Angel, don't let the other guards touch the ball (maybe McGruder when he has a favorable matchup.) Go to the hole or feed the ball to one of our bigs on the block. Big men, either make a strong move to the hoop (preferably with a pump fake since none of our guys can jump) or if you get doubled, send it out to the corner where Will will be standing (this is all Will should ever do, stand in the corner). Rodney, you can't dribble the ball, stop trying to do that as much. Rod needs to live at the elbow where he can shoot jumpers, dribble once and then elevate for a floater, or crash the boards for trash points. If your guy doesn't bite on our post when he gets the ball, then make him pay by cutting to the hoop and putting the help defender on a poster. Don't stray from this strategy whatever you do. Because if you do, we will continue playing offense like we have been...poorly. Obviously this is an over-simplification of what needs to happen, but I think the general theory here is solid.
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
Our eFG% is simply at a ridiculously low level; 43.9%. This is worse than any shooting over the last 10 years by 4.5 percent. 2PT % is at an abysmal 42.8%, by comparison Frank's worst team was 2011 at 46.4%.
The concerns about FTR are valid, but honestly a significant improvement in our own TO% (by 3% over last year) makes up for that plus the fact we're oboarding better than any team over the last 10 years.
Defensively the biggest concern is rebounding, but we are fouling much less. All other numbers are pretty consistent to where we need to be.
The next 2 weeks and a pair of top 10 opponents will tell us a lot.
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Our o-boarding is skewed because we miss so many freaking shots. I refuse to give credit to this team for that.
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Our o-boarding is skewed because we miss so many freaking shots. I refuse to give credit to this team for that.
:confused:
If you were just going by offensive rebounds per game by pointing out that we average 5 more oboards per game than last year that would be a valid point.
But offensive rebounding percentage doesn't allow for that, we are still oboarding 46% of the available opportunities, so the number of misses really doesn't matter.
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
These guys will never do that. They aren't capable. So to me, this is a really simple square-peg-in-round-hole situation with oscar trying to run his offense with this roster.
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
These guys will never do that. They aren't capable. So to me, this is a really simple square-peg-in-round-hole situation with oscar trying to run his offense with this roster.
One or two will step up and do it often enough to make ppl think that it is starting to work.
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
These guys will never do that. They aren't capable. So to me, this is a really simple square-peg-in-round-hole situation with oscar trying to run his offense with this roster.
One or two will step up and do it often enough to make ppl think that it is starting to work.
Maybe. Then we'll turn around and lose the next game @TCU while shooting 32% from the field.
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
These guys will never do that. They aren't capable. So to me, this is a really simple square-peg-in-round-hole situation with oscar trying to run his offense with this roster.
The point is we don't have to be some great shooting team, but just get back up to Frank levels (middle of the pack nationally) at around 48-49% eFG% and 48-49% from 2 and you are talking about an NCAA tournament team that finishes 4th or better in this league. (which is what I'm hoping for)
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Really the key is simple; hit shots.
These guys will never do that. They aren't capable. So to me, this is a really simple square-peg-in-round-hole situation with oscar trying to run his offense with this roster.
The point is we don't have to be some great shooting team, but just get back up to Frank levels (middle of the pack nationally) at around 48-49% eFG% and 48-49% from 2 and you are talking about an NCAA tournament team that finishes 4th or better in this league. (which is what I'm hoping for)
I'm saying I don't see that happening in oscar's O. These guys clearly aren't comfortable shooting coming off baseline screens, and our bigs are horrid at inside-out work. We're going to continue clanking shot after shot that oscar will call "good shots that just aren't falling."
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
Do we really have better shooters than that? Really?
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
Do we really have better shooters than that? Really?
Yes.
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I have zero problems w/ oscar's offense. I like that we're still crashing the o-boards, I like the lower TO's, and I like that we set a lot of high ball screens for Angel in the second half Saturday.
Really, all I don't like about oscar on the court is the general laziness he allows the players to have. Frank (like Huggs) was exceptional at getting players to ALWAYS play hard for him. They truly had a JYC mentality (beyond FTR and OR%). I am really surprised at how quickly that went away.
(note this isn't a nice guy post).
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I have zero problems w/ oscar's offense. I like that we're still crashing the o-boards, I like the lower TO's, and I like that we set a lot of high ball screens for Angel in the second half Saturday.
Really, all I don't like about oscar on the court is the general laziness he allows the players to have. Frank (like Huggs) was exceptional at getting players to ALWAYS play hard for him. They truly had a JYC mentality (beyond FTR and OR%). I am really surprised at how quickly that went away.
(note this isn't a nice guy post).
Good point. It's like they forgot how to motivate themselves without Frank breathing down their necks, and oscar isn't up to the challenge.
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
Do we really have better shooters than that? Really?
Yes.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd22yihw874nvs.cloudfront.net%2FTrying-to-disagree-with-someone-without-being-rude_raw.gif&hash=88fe075d3c5dbde5caa125d8d5c39e01ff511a42)
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I have zero problems w/ oscar's offense. I like that we're still crashing the o-boards, I like the lower TO's, and I like that we set a lot of high ball screens for Angel in the second half Saturday.
Really, all I don't like about oscar on the court is the general laziness he allows the players to have. Frank (like Huggs) was exceptional at getting players to ALWAYS play hard for him. They truly had a JYC mentality (beyond FTR and OR%). I am really surprised at how quickly that went away.
(note this isn't a nice guy post).
Good point. It's like they forgot how to motivate themselves without Frank breathing down their necks, and oscar isn't up to the challenge.
I think it goes back to practice more than anything. He just created an environment where going half-speed isn't acceptable. You heard Huggs talk about it early, and Frank talked about it as well. You really need to have guys that have been a part of that environment and want it to continue to really make it work.
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
Do we really have better shooters than that? Really?
Yes.
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We have 8 real returning players; Angel, Rod, Will, JO, Tay, Gip, Shane, and Diaz.
Angel, Will, and Shane are the 3 that are shooting better right now.
I don't think Rod, Tay, JO, and Gip will all continue to shoot 6-8% worse (eFG%) than they did last season.
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I doubt we'll shoot 44% for the year though. We have better players than that regardless of the offense.
Do we really have better shooters than that? Really?
Yes.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fd22yihw874nvs.cloudfront.net%2FTrying-to-disagree-with-someone-without-being-rude_raw.gif&hash=88fe075d3c5dbde5caa125d8d5c39e01ff511a42)
We have 8 real returning players; Angel, Rod, Will, JO, Tay, Gip, Shane, and Diaz.
Angel, Will, and Shane are the 3 that are shooting better right now.
I don't think Rod, Tay, JO, and Gip will all continue to shoot 6-8% worse (eFG%) than they did last season.
Shane will regress to his mean. Will will regress because he sucks and we all know it.
I hate to say this, but I don't see Tay progressing much from where he is now, nor Gip.
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Shane will regress to his mean. Will will regress because he sucks and we all know it.
I hate to say this, but I don't see Tay progressing much from where he is now, nor Gip.
Sprads will probably finish around 50-51%. I agree that Shane will not keep up his 70% shooting pace, probably 45% or so is realistic for him. Angel could be even better than his current 45%.
But Rod is better than 44%. Tay and Gip are better than 43%.
Now, JO at his current 46% is probably a little low, but he likely won't get up to the 54% he was last year.
DJamer at 47% seems about right. Diaz probably won't stick at 51%.
Still, my point remains, we are better than a 44% shooting team. Last year's 48% in Big 12 play seems realistic to me.
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I think part of the reason that the eFG has dropped for some of those guys is that people like Gipson and Diaz now have the freedom to shoot 18 footers whereas last year that would have never happened. Martavious is taking guarded jumpers from 19 feet with 22 left on the shot clock. They aren't worse shooters than they were, they are just taking different (harder) shots than they used to. I think with this group, you will see people's eFG drop significantly from last year.
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I think part of the reason that the eFG has dropped for some of those guys is that people like Gipson and Diaz now have the freedom to shoot 18 footers whereas last year that would have never happened. Martavious is taking guarded jumpers from 19 feet with 22 left on the shot clock. They aren't worse shooters than they were, they are just taking different (harder) shots than they used to. I think with this group, you will see people's eFG drop significantly from last year.
It will even out IMO. Its not like Frank's offense generated all these great, wide open shots. I'm not trying to argue that oscar's offense will be a lot better, but I can't see that its going to make shooting a lot harder this year than it did last year or any other year under Frank.
A big factor will simply be getting McGruds on track. The guy is going to take a high % of our shots and he's proven to be much better than a 44% shooter and he's also shown to be a slow starter.
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So, @ksu_FAN, we just sit around and do what we're doing, while we wait for McG to start making a high % of his shots? Everyone else is currently fulfilling their roles?
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So, @ksu_FAN, we just sit around and do what we're doing, while we wait for McG to start making a high % of his shots? Everyone else is currently fulfilling their roles?
That's what I said? :dunno:
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So, @ksu_FAN, we just sit around and do what we're doing, while we wait for McG to start making a high % of his shots? Everyone else is currently fulfilling their roles?
That's what I said? :dunno:
Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
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Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
:dubious:
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So, @ksu_FAN, we just sit around and do what we're doing, while we wait for McG to start making a high % of his shots? Everyone else is currently fulfilling their roles?
That's what I said? :dunno:
Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F04%2Fthatswrong.gif&hash=33adf30c7f0e78a3364c5baf34e545b539c22f2e)
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i'm really going to enjoy this season's oscar's offense versus frank's offense discussions. they'll be very telling, for sure.
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i'm really going to enjoy this season's oscar's offense versus frank's offense discussions. they'll be very telling, for sure.
Yeah, very.
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Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
:dubious:
don't act surprised, t42ys
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i'm really going to enjoy this season's oscar's offense versus frank's offense discussions. they'll be very telling, for sure.
It will be a study in people seeing what they want to see.
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Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
:dubious:
don't act surprised, t42ys
Nobody puts _FAN in any corner except the edge of a sand trap.
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i'm really going to enjoy this season's oscar's offense versus frank's offense discussions. they'll be very telling, for sure.
It will be a study in people seeing what they want to see.
good point, i guess most basketball bbs'n can be described that way.
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i'm really going to enjoy this season's oscar's offense versus frank's offense discussions. they'll be very telling, for sure.
It will be a study in people seeing what they want to see.
good point, i guess most basketball bbs'n can be described that way.
that or super elite HBBIQ stats analysis
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Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
:dubious:
don't act surprised, t42ys
Nobody puts _FAN in any corner except the edge of a sand trap.
But it's fun to try.
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Yes. I'm going to force you into either #burnitdown or #teambruce corners, there is no middle ground here pard'ner.
:dubious:
don't act surprised, t42ys
Nobody puts _FAN in any corner except the edge of a sand trap.
But it's fun to try.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.fjcdn.com%2Fgifs%2FHow%2Bi%2Bplay%2Bgolf.%2BMe%2BGusta_c6b548_4153280.gif&hash=3c5be292d8caa17ffd6f18362192c4390fc2cdcf)
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give art the ball. he is a bball genius.
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I think part of the reason that the eFG has dropped for some of those guys is that people like Gipson and Diaz now have the freedom to shoot 18 footers whereas last year that would have never happened. Martavious is taking guarded jumpers from 19 feet with 22 left on the shot clock. They aren't worse shooters than they were, they are just taking different (harder) shots than they used to. I think with this group, you will see people's eFG drop significantly from last year.
Diaz took quite a few 15-18 footers last year. I think you are suffering from Franknesia. Gibson has taken a handful of those shots this year and hit a couple of them, not like he is jacking up shots like KG from the elbow or anything. I think the reason we are seeing our eFG go down so much from last year is our lack of intensity on offense. Last year every player on our offense was moving at all times. That pinwheel really made the other team chase us for the entire shot clock. Eventually it would mentally/physically wear them down and they would start to make mistakes that would lead to open shots for our guys. We are very lethargic on offense this year. Most of our screens are totally halfassed (quarterassed in Diaz's case) and the off guard is just standing like a statue behind the arc the majority of the time. We seem super lazy when it comes to doing the things that REALLY create open shots ie hard picks, hard cuts, crisp passes. I think this offense would be fine if we had players who were more capable of creating space for their shot, bigs who were better passers with better hands, and we had a JYC mentality when it came to doing the little things. We don't have those things though, so maybe it's time to tweak it a little bit.