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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: pvegs on December 03, 2012, 12:20:07 AM

Title: Starting 5...
Post by: pvegs on December 03, 2012, 12:20:07 AM
Angel
Tay
Rod
Gip
Henriquez

I mean, why can't it be this? I want it to be this. We all want it be this. Why can't it be this? HBBIQers please comment.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: puniraptor on December 03, 2012, 07:37:04 AM
Brucevember. Brucember.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Barry McCockner on December 03, 2012, 01:59:00 PM
It should be...and Diaz & Straw should come off of the bench before Doc or Nino.

Scary how bad out guard depth is.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: ksupamplemousse on December 03, 2012, 07:40:59 PM
Angel
Tay
Rod
Gip
Henriquez

I mean, why can't it be this? I want it to be this. We all want it be this. Why can't it be this? HBBIQers please comment.

Angel
Will
Rod
Gip
JO

I know it's popular to hate on Will, with last year being totally justified by the way, but he is playing much better ball this year. Should he ever run the point? No, Marty should always fill in for Angel when we need someone to run the show, but I think Will has a chance to be a slightly above average shooting guard this year.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 03, 2012, 07:45:43 PM
it's popular to hate on will because he sucks and has no business playing division 1 basketball. 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: yosh on December 03, 2012, 07:59:04 PM
it's popular to hate on will because he sucks and has no business playing division 1 basketball.

 :dubious:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: sys on December 03, 2012, 08:22:42 PM
it's popular to hate on will because he sucks and has no business playing division 1 basketball.

 :dubious:

fool me once...
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: yosh on December 03, 2012, 08:38:49 PM
it's popular to hate on will because he sucks and has no business playing division 1 basketball.

 :dubious:

fool me once...

 :dubious:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Barry McCockner on December 03, 2012, 10:35:07 PM
Did you guys watch the last game?  He got blown by every time his man touched the ball.  He played 32 rough ridin' minutes, 4 more than McGruder, 19 more than Angel.  :facepalm:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 04, 2012, 07:37:47 AM
This isn't an Angel OR Will situation. oscar has talked a lot about Angel being a key at point guard and said that Angel didn't play as much on Sunday because he had an injured foot the previous week and didn't practice much.

Angel, Will, Rod are the 3 players that oscar mentions consistently as the 3 key players in the backcourt with Tay, Omari, and Shane as the key bench guys.

If anything its Tay (or Omari/Shane)  OR Will and it seems clear that Tay has had 2 years to pass up Will and he didn't do it with Frank and hasn't done it with oscar either. Both oscar and Lowery praised Will for being a key defender in the Upstate game as well.

Will is going to start and play 80% minutes his final 2 years here.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: CNS on December 04, 2012, 07:42:54 AM
so depressing.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 04, 2012, 08:12:39 AM
i guess that oscar and frank have more in common than many here initially wanted to believe.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: CNS on December 04, 2012, 08:16:54 AM
I don't know.  Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but if Frank was still around, Will would either have transferred or had a terrible accident at home when falling asleep while smoking.

Angel and Tay forever.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 04, 2012, 08:25:41 AM
so it only took frank ~40 starts to realize will sucked.  oscar, you're on the clock.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: CNS on December 04, 2012, 08:42:33 AM
Did frank take all the game film with him when he left? 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: michigancat on December 04, 2012, 11:57:52 AM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 04, 2012, 12:04:20 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Kat Kid on December 04, 2012, 12:18:51 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.

Be an the oath keeper _FAN.

Quote
The small sample size oath
by Ken Pomeroy on Saturday, November 17, 2012


[I’ve added individual stats to the team pages. Yes, this is the earliest ever, and the primary function for the next few days will be to provide a roster placeholder. Before using these stats, please take the oath below. We’re all on the honor system here.]

I, (state your name), understand that the player stats are based on extremely limited information in mid-November. I understand that Erik Murphy is not the best college basketball player of all time and that Adreian Payne is not going to grab anything close to 43% of opponents’ missed shots nor 0% of his own team’s misses for a full season. Additionally, I understand that some of the numbers displayed on these pages are utterly meaningless at this point, like Rahlir Hollis-Jefferson’s free throw rate or anything on Jordan Vandenberg’s line. I will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the responsible use of advanced stats for individuals in mid-November.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 04, 2012, 12:19:55 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.

Be an the oath keeper _FAN.

Quote
The small sample size oath
by Ken Pomeroy on Saturday, November 17, 2012


[I’ve added individual stats to the team pages. Yes, this is the earliest ever, and the primary function for the next few days will be to provide a roster placeholder. Before using these stats, please take the oath below. We’re all on the honor system here.]

I, (state your name), understand that the player stats are based on extremely limited information in mid-November. I understand that Erik Murphy is not the best college basketball player of all time and that Adreian Payne is not going to grab anything close to 43% of opponents’ missed shots nor 0% of his own team’s misses for a full season. Additionally, I understand that some of the numbers displayed on these pages are utterly meaningless at this point, like Rahlir Hollis-Jefferson’s free throw rate or anything on Jordan Vandenberg’s line. I will, to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the responsible use of advanced stats for individuals in mid-November.

 :cheers:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 04, 2012, 12:20:29 PM
it's terrible to have such an issue at the 2, really no excuse for it
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: puniraptor on December 04, 2012, 12:21:46 PM
THE OATH tell me that Will may very well be the #1 player in the nation.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: _33 on December 04, 2012, 12:26:23 PM
Yeah, why can't we get a 1-2 punch?  Teams without a good 1-2 punch are never very good. That's why in the Elite8 and Final Four all the commentators are always talking about the 1-2 punches of the teams.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Skipper44 on December 04, 2012, 12:27:15 PM
I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.
He looks amazing at the free throw line
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Skipper44 on December 04, 2012, 12:28:40 PM
it's terrible to have such an issue at the 2, really no excuse for it
For all of Dax's rants on Frank's recruiting, not being able to recruit over Will for 2 years is pretty bad
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: puniraptor on December 04, 2012, 12:37:05 PM
I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.
He looks amazing at the free throw line

His biceps cant be beat on the court.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: mocat on December 04, 2012, 12:43:13 PM
well now i know for certain who is the #1 largest bag of douche on this board  :curse:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on December 04, 2012, 12:44:20 PM
did frank play will a decent amount and not recruit over him somewhat hoping that it would help him in his efforts to get cauley and semi? that's the only frank defense that i can even somewhat come up with and it seems to be beyond a stretch.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: CNS on December 04, 2012, 12:46:02 PM
Wish we got little releford instead. 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 04, 2012, 03:43:15 PM
as good as frank was at evaluating his 1's, he was equally as bad, if not worse, at evaluating his 2's.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: EMAWzified on December 04, 2012, 07:16:57 PM
In Frank's defense, he did call Will a pussy and by all accounts had him ready to transfer.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: wazucat on December 04, 2012, 07:25:51 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.

So Will is in fact the best we have?  If true that's really depressing.  Seems like in Frank/oscar were/are determined to have him on the floor more minutes than anyone on the team. 

LBBIQ, what does Will provide us that justifies two different coaches giving him massive minutes, I just can't figure it out??   Fan ?  Michigan?  Sys?
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pvegs on December 04, 2012, 07:32:44 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.

That Southwell stat is just staggering.  Seems like part of the reason Tay hasn't made much of an impact this yr is b/c he's been playing less.  I haven't looked at the stats but he seemed like an efficient player last yr.  If nothing else, we were more confident in him as an outside shooter and defender (esp during confy play).  I don't know, I guess I just always thought last season Tay would overtake Will and the 2 would be a strength with Will adding outside shooting and whatever else Will adds, but instead we've had 2 yrs of meh play from both. 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: yosh on December 04, 2012, 08:43:04 PM

Last 6 starting guards not name Clemente or Pullen.  Career numbers (not small sample sizes)   :users:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=lance-harris&angel-rodriguez=career&blake-young=career&clent-stewart=career&i=1&lance-harris=career&martavious-irving=career&p1=martavious-irving&p2=will-spradling&p3=clent-stewart&p4=blake-young&p5=angel-rodriguez&will-spradling=career
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Stevesie60 on December 04, 2012, 08:51:18 PM

Last 6 starting guards not name Clemente or Pullen.  Career numbers (not small sample sizes)   :users:

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=lance-harris&angel-rodriguez=career&blake-young=career&clent-stewart=career&i=1&lance-harris=career&martavious-irving=career&p1=martavious-irving&p2=will-spradling&p3=clent-stewart&p4=blake-young&p5=angel-rodriguez&will-spradling=career

Angel :love:
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Skipper44 on December 04, 2012, 10:35:09 PM
I think I like Will more than Tay now that Will isn't shooting 18% or whatever he did last year. And Will's honestly been more aggressive off the dribble which has always bugged me most about him. I've never ever liked anything Tay does on the court.

Did you know...

Will has the highest kenpom offensive rating (130.5, #69 nationally) for the K-State Wildcats so far this season. 2nd on the team behind the arc (tied with Angel) shooting .367 behind team leader Shane Southwell (!) at .583.

So Will is in fact the best we have?  If true that's really depressing.  Seems like in Frank/oscar were/are determined to have him on the floor more minutes than anyone on the team. 

LBBIQ, what does Will provide us that justifies two different coaches giving him massive minutes, I just can't figure it out??   Fan ?  Michigan?  Sys?
maybe it means Will is the best fit on the roster for Brucektball
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: sys on December 04, 2012, 10:51:59 PM
as good as frank was at evaluating his 1's, he was equally as bad, if not worse, at evaluating his 2's.

a lot of his 2s are basically failed 1s.  kinda makes it a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: sys on December 04, 2012, 10:54:47 PM
LBBIQ, what does Will provide us that justifies two different coaches giving him massive minutes, I just can't figure it out??   Fan ?  Michigan?  Sys?

irving sucks, southwell is beautiful to look at, but sucks at bball.  spradling can play in the big 12 if he hits 3s.  last year he didn't, but the other options suck.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 04, 2012, 11:27:14 PM
He can't hit 3s.  I too am encouraged by the fact that he's more aggressive this season.  I'm discouraged that he is a terrible basketball player.  I would rather go big with Southwell or McGruder at the 2 and play a 1-2-2 or 3-2.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: wabash909 on December 05, 2012, 08:00:55 AM
it's terrible to have such an issue at the 2, really no excuse for it
For all of Dax's rants on Frank's recruiting, not being able to recruit over Will for 2 years is pretty bad

Just think if Will was good at basketball.  Just think about that.



Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 05, 2012, 08:18:18 AM
LBBIQ, what does Will provide us that justifies two different coaches giving him massive minutes, I just can't figure it out??   Fan ?  Michigan?  Sys?

irving sucks, southwell is beautiful to look at, but sucks at bball.  spradling can play in the big 12 if he hits 3s.  last year he didn't, but the other options suck.

agreed that spradling can play in the b12 if he can hit 3s.

also, irving can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, southwell can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, orris can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, meyer (?) can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, Vulture can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: CNS on December 05, 2012, 09:59:57 AM
He can't hit 3s.  I too am encouraged by the fact that he's more aggressive this season.  I'm discouraged that he is a terrible basketball player.  I would rather go big with Southwell or McGruder at the 2 and play a 1-2-2 or 3-2.

I am tentative in being happy with Will's new found aggression.  I just have a feeling that he will get denied early and often by BigXII guards and will quickly let the coward in him control his game (our games?) from that point on.  I keep telling myself is may be like Gip's string of high scoring games last year in that it is more due to the ooc comp than any new found ability of Will's.

Hope I am wrong.  Really need to be wrong for 'clams' prediction of 5 BigXII teams making the NCAA's to come to fruition.

Southwell is too hesitant to shoot to be a shooting guard and I don't think Rodney has the speed needed to run as the two. 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 05, 2012, 10:38:18 AM
agreed, CNS Casey.  the strength and speed of b12 guards on the defensive side of the ball will strip Will of his soul, again.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: sys on December 05, 2012, 11:02:45 AM
also, irving can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, southwell can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, orris can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, meyer (?) can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, Vulture can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s.

true enough.  i think coaches think spradling is more likely to hit threes than those other players (despite the evidence to the contrary from his soph year).  i think that's the reason why martin and now weber give him more minutes than the other players.  that was the question i was responding to.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: michigancat on December 05, 2012, 11:03:37 AM
Spradling hit 3's at a decent clip his first year.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 05, 2012, 11:29:24 AM
Spradling hit 3's at a decent clip his first year.

relatively speaking, it was good for a freshman but it was only 4 percent better than last year.  look at the FTr

http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/roster_player/will-spradling
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: michigancat on December 05, 2012, 11:37:32 AM
Spradling hit 3's at a decent clip his first year.

relatively speaking, it was good for a freshman but it was only 4 percent better than last year.  look at the FTr

http://kstateupdate.com/kansas-state-basketball/roster_player/will-spradling

confy games were 6% better. That's a significant difference.

what an ugly FTR trend.
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: yosh on December 05, 2012, 05:02:12 PM
Curious about the effect of playing alongside Pullen exclusively as a freshman, as opposed to playing alongside Irving/Angel as a sophomore.  I'd venture to say more than half the minutes last year were Will/Martavious backcourt minutes also.  Does this matter?  IDK.  It'll be interesting to see if Spradlings numbers increase significantly the more he shares the floor with Angel. 
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 05, 2012, 05:14:43 PM
i think it's just a confidence issue.  frank anally raped will and will hasn't been able to recover.  hopefully he does better under oscar the panda bear.

imo, what made him decent his freshman year was he knocked down open j's and he hustled for loose balls.  when he was asked to do more in the offense, he struggled, frank pressed, will crashed, frank pressed harder, will crashed farther, and things went from there.

there's no way that kid should ever be asked to be more than a spot up shooter and a decent defender at this level.
Title: Re: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: kso_FAN on December 05, 2012, 05:26:58 PM
i think it's just a confidence issue.  frank anally raped will and will hasn't been able to recover.  hopefully he does better under oscar the panda bear.

imo, what made him decent his freshman year was he knocked down open j's and he hustled for loose balls.  when he was asked to do more in the offense, he struggled, frank pressed, will crashed, frank pressed harder, will crashed farther, and things went from there.

there's no way that kid should ever be asked to be more than a spot up shooter and a decent defender at this level.

Will Spreslip
Title: Re: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: sys on December 05, 2012, 05:40:15 PM
Will Spreslip

not similar players (style/skills), not similar shooters (quality).
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: Barry McCockner on December 05, 2012, 06:24:10 PM
i think it's just a confidence issue.  frank anally raped will and will hasn't been able to recover.  hopefully he does better under oscar the panda bear.

imo, what made him decent his freshman year was he knocked down open j's and he hustled for loose balls.  when he was asked to do more in the offense, he struggled, frank pressed, will crashed, frank pressed harder, will crashed farther, and things went from there.

there's no way that kid should ever be asked to be more than a spot up shooter and a decent defender at this level.

I see nothing to suggest that he is capable of being a decent defender.
Title: Re: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 05, 2012, 06:59:45 PM
Will Spreslip

not similar players (style/skills), not similar shooters (quality).

I'd kill Gooch & fanning for Heslip over Doc, even though Heslip is a worst defender by about 97%.
Title: Re: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: nicname on December 05, 2012, 08:49:51 PM
Will Spreslip

not similar players (style/skills), not similar shooters (quality).

I'd kill Gooch & fanning for Heslip over Doc, even though Heslip is a worst defender by about 97%.

Being able to do one thing exceptionally well is always highly valuable and usually able to justify at least two, maybe more murders.
Title: Starting 5...
Post by: pissclams on December 05, 2012, 09:02:29 PM
lol
Title: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: gatoveintisiete on December 05, 2012, 10:13:49 PM
LBBIQ, what does Will provide us that justifies two different coaches giving him massive minutes, I just can't figure it out??   Fan ?  Michigan?  Sys?

irving sucks, southwell is beautiful to look at, but sucks at bball.  spradling can play in the big 12 if he hits 3s.  last year he didn't, but the other options suck.


agreed that spradling can play in the b12 if he can hit 3s.

also, irving can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, southwell can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, orris can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, meyer (?) can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s, Vulture can play in the big 12 if he can hit 3s.
Sorry if you already covered this but if Fred Brown had been capable of making 3 point field goals, could he too have played in the big 12, I'll hang up and listen.
Title: Re: Re: Starting 5...
Post by: MakeItRain on December 05, 2012, 10:45:36 PM
Will Spreslip

not similar players (style/skills), not similar shooters (quality).

I'd kill Gooch & fanning for Heslip over Doc, even though Heslip is a worst defender by about 97%.

Being able to do one thing exceptionally well is always highly valuable and usually able to justify at least two, maybe more murders.