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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: 420seriouscat69 on November 23, 2012, 10:32:55 PM
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Place questions here peeps. I'll start first. MIR, how difficult is the motion offense to learn? I figured it out in Middle School (#fanningbrag), why are these guys having a tough time "learning it?"
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It's easy, similar concepts on all levels but there are wrinkles. Everyone runs some motion concepts. They aren't having a hard time learning anything, anyone who says this has no credibility. Did we hear this talking point 72 hours ago? Did they regress with a trip to NYC or are some reaching to try to excuse the last two games?
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All offense are easy to run, but you don't run an offense for the sake of running offense. You run it to score. Players are still trying to learn how to best utilize their skills in oscar's offense and oscar will also tinker with the offense to better fit the players. It is still a work in progress.
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All offense are easy to run, but you don't run an offense for the sake of running offense. You run it to score. Players are still trying to learn how to best utilize their skills in oscar's offense and oscar will also tinker with the offense to better fit the players. It is still a work in progress.
That's a different answer than what fanning asked. Tweaking an offense is a constant thing everywhere. He asked how easy is motion to run and the answer is that its perhaps the easiest. Sure people are learning roles, sets are being added, etc. but that isn't unique to any program.
People who are going way too far to defend Weber are either saying or insinuating that the team struggled to score because the players are still learning the offense and that's bogus. Michigan's offense is much more complex than ours. I don't have an issue with taking players to task for not executing, but questioning their basketball iq for the sake of defending a coach who lost to the #4 team in the country is unacceptable.
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The concepts aren't hard, but playing together within a new system can be. I think it's fair to say the motion offense at the college level us more nuanced than high school. Plus, their are different versions of the motion offense. Saying you run the motion offense in basketball is like saying you run an option offense in football, there are lots of different ways to run it.
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They know how to run the offense they just don't know how to score efficiently in it or how to deal with how teams will defend them in it. For instance today Michigan switched on a lot of the screens something we haven't seen yet and it really caught us of guard. Thats on oscar and a lack of experience.
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They know how to run the offense they just don't know how to score efficiently in it or how to deal with how teams will defend them in it. For instance today Michigan switched on a lot of the screens something we haven't seen yet and it really caught us of guard. Thats on oscar and a lack of experience.
Scoring is a big issue, and honestly we missed a fair amount of good/open shots. I think we can run offense fine, there is plenty of movement, but consistently getting it to places where guys can consistently score is a problem. Again, see the inability to hit open shots as a problem here.
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They know how to run the offense they just don't know how to score efficiently in it or how to deal with how teams will defend them in it. For instance today Michigan switched on a lot of the screens something we haven't seen yet and it really caught us of guard. Thats on oscar and a lack of experience.
Scoring is a big issue, and honestly we missed a fair amount of good/open shots. I think we can run offense fine, there is plenty of movement, but consistently getting it to places where guys can consistently score is a problem. Again, see the inability to hit open shots as a problem here.
Agree with this, we have a big problem hitting shoots coming off screens, really have trouble setting our feet and getting balanced.
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Spradling has always been a role player. His freshman year was the perfect situation for him to be successful. He'll never be able to carry the load. Time for him and his family to accept that. Not a question for you guys, just a statement that has played out in fanning's world. :cry:
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We should run the Read and React.
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Based off tweets last night, we do not seem good at shooting a basketball. Is that accurate?
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Based off tweets last night, we do not seem good at shooting a basketball. Is that accurate?
Accurate.
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A 3-4 defense is really easy to understand/grasp. But, like, you saw what happens when maybe your players skill set doesn't match what the coach wants out of it.
this team, as it's currently built, needs to throw the ball at the basket and then crash the glass. and more importantly, the offense we run needs to put its players in Oreb positions. Instead, Diaz/Gip/JO are jumpshooting their asses off, while Rod, Will and Angel are on the other side of the court playing rock/paper/scissors on who was supposed to cut and who was supposed to rotate to the top of the key.
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The offense would be a lot better if . . . hang on here, if the players actually made the copious amount of wide open shots that it was giving them. Rodney for example had open looks all over the floor yesterday and against Deleware, a constant parade of open looks from 4 feet to 15 feet and he missed a lot. Almost all of our 3 point looks yesterday found defenders at LEAST 2 steps away, most of them were wide, wide open . . . we missed.
Our post players are getting a steady stream of looks from 2 to 4 feet, they can't finish.
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A 3-4 defense is really easy to understand/grasp. But, like, you saw what happens when maybe your players skill set doesn't match what the coach wants out of it.
this team, as it's currently built, needs to throw the ball at the basket and then crash the glass. and more importantly, the offense we run needs to put its players in Oreb positions. Instead, Diaz/Gip/JO are jumpshooting their asses off, while Rod, Will and Angel are on the other side of the court playing rock/paper/scissors on who was supposed to cut and who was supposed to rotate to the top of the key.
yeah, there needs to be more action to the basket.
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A 3-4 defense is really easy to understand/grasp. But, like, you saw what happens when maybe your players skill set doesn't match what the coach wants out of it.
this team, as it's currently built, needs to throw the ball at the basket and then crash the glass. and more importantly, the offense we run needs to put its players in Oreb positions. Instead, Diaz/Gip/JO are jumpshooting their asses off, while Rod, Will and Angel are on the other side of the court playing rock/paper/scissors on who was supposed to cut and who was supposed to rotate to the top of the key.
yeah, there needs to be more action to the basket.
Its like when Ron took our 2 best players on a servicable defense - rush DEs Campbell and Jackson - and neutered/elliminated their ability for the sake of running a 3-4.
This will be interesting to watch.
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The offense would be a lot better if . . . hang on here, if the players actually made the copious amount of wide open shots that it was giving them. Rodney for example had open looks all over the floor yesterday and against Deleware, a constant parade of open looks from 4 feet to 15 feet and he missed a lot. Almost all of our 3 point looks yesterday found defenders at LEAST 2 steps away, most of them were wide, wide open . . . we missed.
Our post players are getting a steady stream of looks from 2 to 4 feet, they can't finish.
It looked to me like oscar's offense was getting us open looks on jump shots (which we kept clanging) and dribble drives. Our post players missed some bunnies, but most of those were pretty contested.
Maybe if we ever hit an outside shot it might have opened up things on this inside. :dunno:
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So are we of the opinion that this was just a bad shooting night against a more talented, efficient team, or that the problems we saw in NYC will only magnify as the season progresses?
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We are of the opinion that we saw some troubling things yesterday but we understand one game doesn't make a trend. We're watching.
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So are we of the opinion that this was just a bad shooting night against a more talented, efficient team, or that the problems we saw in NYC will only magnify as the season progresses?
A few things.
There were more issues than just bad shooting.
I would hope that watching previous seasons has shown us that a poor a game in November doesn't translate to the rest of the season.
The Big 12 is simply not that great and this team won't face too many teams even close to Michigan's caliber in league play.
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I know that questions isn't aimed at me, but the way I see it, this team will struggle to shoot against good teams and beat the crap out of pud teams. Frank really mind raped these guys from shooting the basketball well against non-puds. :lol:
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So are we of the opinion that this was just a bad shooting night against a more talented, efficient team, or that the problems we saw in NYC will only magnify as the season progresses?
A few things.
There were more issues than just bad shooting.
I would hope that watching previous seasons has shown us that a poor a game in November doesn't translate to the rest of the season.
The Big 12 is simply not that great and this team won't face too many teams even close to Michigan's caliber in league play.
Definitely this.
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I think the league may be underrated. We struggled with Michigan's athleticism and there are long athletic teams in this league.
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I think the league may be underrated. We struggled with Michigan's athleticism and there are long athletic teams in this league.
They combined athleticism with skill and shooting though. They are top 5 for a reason.
And we are more athletic than how we played last night.
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I think the league may be underrated. We struggled with Michigan's athleticism and there are long athletic teams in this league.
They combined athleticism with skill and shooting though. They are top 5 for a reason.
And we are more athletic than how we played last night.
yeah I know they are good offensively, I was more referring to our trouble scoring
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Michigan has consistently been solid, but not great defensively under Beilein. (Top 70 kenpom) Plus, they controlled and played their pace (low 60s on average). I really think oscar wants to play in the upper 60s, not the pace we played last night.
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Are we gonna lose to Iowa State?
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Are we gonna lose to Iowa State?
twice, maybe three times
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Are we gonna lose to Iowa State?
Split.
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I think the league may be underrated. We struggled with Michigan's athleticism and there are long athletic teams in this league.
I think the league will produce some good games, but I don't this is a good league. Like, teams 2-9 will just battle it out.
I'm going to say that michigan is good, but prolly a 3/4 seed. 3 of their top 6 scorers (right now) are frosh, burke (though really good, is a Soph). And Hardaway is playing out of his ass (or at least over his previous two years) so we'll see if he can keep it up.
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The truth of the matter is:
We have lost big to decent teams in the non-con before
Rod usually doesn't start being Rod til the last 5 games of the non-con
JO doesn't start being good JO until 5 games into the conference season
Will sucks
As much as I hate Bruceketball (and I rough ridin' hate Bruceketball), these facts aren't necessarily different from Frank teams the past two years.
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Are we gonna lose to Iowa State?
Split.
Welp, I'm still out then. If cire is right, I'm 100% burn it down.