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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: cas4ksu on July 11, 2012, 11:10:46 AM
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1. K. Lockett
2. Jordy
3. Quincy
4. Darnell
5. James Terry? Mitch Running, Banks, Schwieger could easily be here, too.
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I have a tough time listing them. I would probably put Darnell ahead of Quincy but it't tough.
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1. Chris Harper
2. Tyler Lockett
3. Kyle Klein
4. Marquez Clark
5. Curry Sexton
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1. Chris Harper
2. Tyler Lockett
3. Kyle Klein
4. Marquez Clark
5. Curry Sexton
:like
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1. K. Lockett
2. Jordy
3. Quincy
4. Darnell
5. Andre Coleman
6. Mitch Running
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1. K. Lockett
2. Jordy
3. Quincy
4. Darnell
5. James Terry? Mitch Running, Banks, Schwieger could easily be here, too.
Looks about right but I would switch Jordy and Lockett.
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Michael Smith probably deserves some mention.
Had to do it.
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The best things about these threads is we can pretty much forget about anyone before 1990.
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switch this to master "rank player positions all time" thread so we can debate RB's QB's OT's DE's and DB's as well.
thanks
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I really enjoyed Quincy.
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Jordy
K. Lockett
Morgan
T. Lockett
Banks
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Eugene Goodlow was a good pre-Snyder WR, he left K-State early and played 2 years in the CFL and then 3 years in the NFL.
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1. Jordy Nelson
2. Kevin Lockett
3.Darnell McDonald
4.Quincy Morgan
5.Brandon Banks
1.Darren Sproles
2.Daniel Thomas
3.JJ Smith
4.Eric Hickson
5.Bryce Brown
1.Michael Bishop
2.Josh Freeman
3.Jonathan Beasley
4.Collin Klein
5.Chad May
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Pete is correct.
The lack of andre coleman love in here is pathetic.
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Pete is correct.
The lack of andre coleman love in here is pathetic.
Andre who?
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1.Michael Bishop
2.Josh Freeman
3.Jonathan Beasley
4.Collin Klein
5.Chad May
Is this a joke? Being a high draft pick does not constitute being a great college football player.
1) Michael Bishop
2) Jonathan Beasley
2) Ell Roberson
4) Chad May
5) Collin Klein
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It's Harper. #fatty4ksu
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at strictly wr (not including special teams), give me
Kevin
Quincy
Jordy
Andre
Darnell
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QBs:
Freeman
Bishop
Roberson
Klein
May
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D. Sproles
D. Thomas
J. Scobey
J. Smith
T. Clayton
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Andre definitely deserves some love. Used to hold the Super Bowl KO return record (first KO returned for a TD in SB history, I believe).
Eugene Goodlow was an amazing wideout. He was a pre-season Playboy All American his junior year, I believe. However, he opted to go play ball in Canada (or just drop out, can't remember) instead that same season. Was amazing his short career at KSU playing on some horrific teams to say the least. Play 2 years in the CFL, and then when he became eligible for the NFL did 4 years with the Saints. He was a real deep threat and made some huge plays (which were often accompanied by heart breaking losses (I believe he caught the big TD against Tulane in the Superdome with about 1 minute left apparently giving the 'Cats the win, but KSU lost the game became the DC left the both to go meet the team in the locker room to celebrate the win and Tulane came back with a quick TD to put the 'Cats away).
Mike Wallace was a great possession receiver who was damn tough.
Either of those guys, if they had played in the Snyder era, would have been pretty awesome (though Goodlow may have been in the doghouse and never saw the field under OB).
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QBs:
Freeman
Bishop
Roberson
Klein
Dickey
May
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QBs:
Freeman
Bishop
Roberson
Klein
DickeyMay
Who?
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Cartwright
Goolsby
T. Wilson
Mann
B. Wilson
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Andre definitely deserves some love. Used to hold the Super Bowl KO return record (first KO returned for a TD in SB history, I believe).
Eugene Goodlow was an amazing wideout. He was a pre-season Playboy All American his junior year, I believe. However, he opted to go play ball in Canada (or just drop out, can't remember) instead that same season. Was amazing his short career at KSU playing on some horrific teams to say the least. Play 2 years in the CFL, and then when he became eligible for the NFL did 4 years with the Saints. He was a real deep threat and made some huge plays (which were often accompanied by heart breaking losses (I believe he caught the big TD against Tulane in the Superdome with about 1 minute left apparently giving the 'Cats the win, but KSU lost the game became the DC left the both to go meet the team in the locker room to celebrate the win and Tulane came back with a quick TD to put the 'Cats away).
Mike Wallace was a great possession receiver who was damn tough.
Either of those guys, if they had played in the Snyder era, would have been pretty awesome (though Goodlow may have been in the doghouse and never saw the field under OB).
Goodlow was long gone before Stan Parrish's Tulane debacle.
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Freeman probably the best WR, TE, QB, OL, and RB in program history. probably would have made a good DE as well.
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Taco Wallace
Antoine Polite
Jermaine Moreira
Deon Murphy
Broderick Smith
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
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1.Michael Bishop
2.Josh Freeman
3.Jonathan Beasley
4.Collin Klein
5.Chad May
Is this a joke? Being a high draft pick does not constitute being a great college football player.
1) Michael Bishop
2) Jonathan Beasley
2) Ell Roberson
4) Chad May
5) Collin Klein
Freeman was really good. Stop kidding yourself. He had plenty of offensive production. He just lacked in the win category. Freeman had all the talent, statistics and crap. He just didnt have a defense in his 3 years at ksu. I feel perfectly fine with putting our All time passing leader SECOND.
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
Jeff Kelly
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
Brown at two is too high imo. At least at this point.
Does Buhl deserve a mention? I'd say substitute him for Beisel.
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LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
Brown at two is too high imo. At least at this point.
Does Buhl deserve a mention? I'd say substitute him for Beisel.
Brown
Simoneau
Buhl
Kelly
Leber
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:powerespect:
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
Brown at two is too high imo. At least at this point.
Does Buhl deserve a mention? I'd say substitute him for Beisel.
Brown
Simoneau
Buhl
Kelly
Leber
ok butthurt ksufans expat
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LHCv1
Prince
Mike Ahearn
Lynn "Pappy" Waldorf
LHCv2
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LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
LaMark Brown
That's a damn fine looking list.
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Morgan
Nelson
Lockett
Coleman
Terry
Ell
Bishop
Freeman
Klein/Beasley
Webb
Brown
Buhl
Simoneau
Kelly
Leber
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Morgan
Nelson
Lockett
Coleman
Terry
Ell
Bishop
Freeman
Klein/Beasley
Webb
Brown
Buhl
Simoneau
Kelly
Leber
GMAMFB Webb
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QBs:
Freeman
Bishop
Roberson
Klein
DickeyMay
Who?
Indeed. I even know Chad May. I remember when the Vikings drafted him to be the quarterback of the future.
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WR's
1. Nelson
2. Coleman
3. Morgan
4. K. Lockett
5. McDonald
LB's
1. Simoneau
2. Kelly
3. Buhl
4. T. Ochs
5. Gaskins
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Did most of you start watching football in the Prince era? There are some awful lists on here. Freeman or A. Brown being on any list is almost laughable at this point.
LB:
1) Simoneau
2) Pierce
3) Buhl
4) Kelly
5) Leber
CB:
1) Newman
2) Canty
3) Butler
4) Faggins
5) REACH: (hoping for a big season.....Malone)
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Taco Wallace
Antoine Polite
Jermaine Moreira
Deon Murphy
Broderick Smith
Pretty good list, but I'd substitute ricky Lloyd for polite.
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Did most of you start watching football in the Prince era? There are some awful lists on here. Freeman or A. Brown being on any list is almost laughable at this point.
Why, exactly, is Freeman's presence laughable?
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Taco Wallace
Antoine Polite
Jermaine Moreira
Deon Murphy
Broderick Smith
Pretty good list, but I'd substitute ricky Lloyd for polite.
You are insane
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Taco Wallace
Antoine Polite
Jermaine Moreira
Deon Murphy
Broderick Smith
Taco :love:
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Tough to leave Gordon and McIntyre off a top 5 CB list...hardest position to score for sure.
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Did most of you start watching football in the Prince era? There are some awful lists on here. Freeman or A. Brown being on any list is almost laughable at this point.
Why, exactly, is Freeman's presence laughable?
You have a hard-on for his stats or something? Why is throwing for 44 TDs impressive when you also throw 34 INTs? That isn't the TD/INT ration I like. Career completion percentage is under 60%. If there was a chance for Freeman to crap his pants, he usually found a way. Blaming his career record on the defense is laughable. I defense the last three years has been damn near as terrible as the Prince years (if not worse in some respects). Snyder has simply willed them to make the big plays in big situations.......must to the disliking of Cosh.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, career record as a starter: 14-18.
The guy sucked. Simple as that.
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This thread reminds me of the "Best DOD Players" thread on ksufans when TP came in and "layed the smack down" on Manhatter if you will. Good times.
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Man, this is going to get a little messy with the quote function, but here goes nothing.
You have a hard-on for his stats or something? Why is throwing for 44 TDs impressive when you also throw 34 INTs? That isn't the TD/INT ration I like.
The thing about Freeman that a lot of people forget, is that he started as a freshman. His freshman season, he had terrible statistics. 6 tds, 15 ints (the Phog guys were so mean after that season). Which begs the question, how does his freshman statistics fit in the context of the rest of his careers, and the context of the rest of the KSU qbs in the discussion. Well, the thing is, in the last two decades, NO FRESHMAN QB AT KSU HAS BEEN GOOD. Hardly any have had the opportunity. The youngest guy I can remember starting as even a RS freshman under Snyder was Evridge (HA!). Besides him, Roberson started as a RS Sophomore and his numbers that year (when he was already 2 years older than Freeman was) were just dreadful.
My point is, is that Freemaw's TD/INT ratio is completely skewed because of his 6/15 freshman year disaster. During his final two years, he threw for 38/19 which isn't bad.
Career completion percentage is under 60%.
So was Chad May's (56.1), Ell's (48.9), Bishop's (49.4), Lynn Dickey (50.4) and probably every other qb in K-State history. FWIW, Freeman's completion percentage is over 59%.
If there was a chance for Freeman to crap his pants, he usually found a way. Blaming his career record on the defense is laughable.
Well, he certainly had a chance to crap his pants against UT at home, and didn't, so you're wrong.
Interesting, take on the defense though. Let's look at the numbers. In Freeman's 18 losses, the defense gave up an average of 41.5 points. I mean, averaging 42 points a game is a tall order for anyone. I think most people that were paying any attention in 2007/2008 would agree that the offense wasn't the issue; giving up over 33 points a game was.
I defense the last three years has been damn near as terrible as the Prince years (if not worse in some respects). Snyder has simply willed them to make the big plays in big situations.......must to the disliking of Cosh.
I'm not sure what your point is here, but, you're wrong. Under Snyder, the defense has given up an average of over 6 fewer points (or about a touchdown fewer) a game.
TL;DR:
You're a complete idiot who is ignoring the best passer Kansas State has ever had (8k yards in 2.5 years) because you don't like his head coach and the rest his shitty team, especially the defense.
Wake up, dumbass.
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Also, he was an incredible quarterback and anyone with eyes could see that.
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Yeah, dlew has great points, but not my battle. Freeman was/is a horrible human being. We don't have to put a * next to his career (cause of prince), he's got great intangibles, but lost ( a lot w/ bad numbers). However, of all time greats? Put that ass hat freeman behind all the greats, even May. I need winners!
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Yeah, dlew has great points, but not my battle. Freeman was/is a horrible human being. We don't have to put a * next to his career (cause of prince), he's got great intangibles, but lost ( a lot w/ bad numbers). However, of all time greats? Put that ass hat freeman behind all the greats, even May. I need winners!
Fine.
You guys take winner Brian Kavanaugh. I'll take loser Josh Freeman.
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Yeah, dlew has great points, but not my battle. Freeman was/is a horrible human being. We don't have to put a * next to his career (cause of prince), he's got great intangibles, but lost ( a lot w/ bad numbers). However, of all time greats? Put that ass hat freeman behind all the greats, even May. I need winners!
Fine.
You guys take winner Brian Kavanaugh. I'll take loser Josh Freeman.
Let's not get crazy here.
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Yeah, dlew has great points, but not my battle. Freeman was/is a horrible human being. We don't have to put a * next to his career (cause of prince), he's got great intangibles, but lost ( a lot w/ bad numbers). However, of all time greats? Put that ass hat freeman behind all the greats, even May. I need winners!
Fine.
You guys take winner Brian Kavanaugh. I'll take loser Josh Freeman.
Let's not get crazy here.
Great, welcome aboard #TeamFreemaw, Fanning.
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Yeah, dlew has great points, but not my battle. Freeman was/is a horrible human being. We don't have to put a * next to his career (cause of prince), he's got great intangibles, but lost ( a lot w/ bad numbers). However, of all time greats? Put that ass hat freeman behind all the greats, even May. I need winners!
Fine.
You guys take winner Brian Kavanaugh. I'll take loser Josh Freeman.
Let's not get crazy here.
Great, welcome aboard #TeamFreemaw, Fanning.
:lol:
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The lack of James Terry on all of these lists is perplexing. He deserves big ups and mad love and he simply isn't getting it.
Lockett
Morgan
Nelson
McDonald
Terry
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Also, he was an incredible quarterback and anyone with eyes could see that.
:thumbs:
best in KSU history w/o a doubt
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Freeman at least deserves to sneak in at #5 or 4
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dlew running circles around fanning.
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Simoneau
Brown
Pierce
Leber
Beisel
Brown is better than Simoneau. Pierce at 3 is debatable. Beisel wasn't a linebacker.
We all like to joke around on this board from time to time, but if you say that Brown is Simaneau you are a rough ridin' stupid head.
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If I had to choose between Percell Gaskins and Arthur Brown, I'd tell Arthur Brown to go eff himself (in the nicest possible way).
Percell was a rough ridin' freak.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huskermax.com%2Fimages%2Fgaskins.jpg&hash=a2a65374e1274168550a5acf3ad1a0f089ad3421)
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Josh Freeman would have won 3 heisman trophies playing for our '97-'99 teams
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here's the thing about our fans. they are, for the most part, rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). the uniforms we had under prince were far superior to the snyder striped uniforms. josh freeman would have been one of if not the best QB LHC Bill Snyder ever recruited/coached. our fanbase apparently, based on their reactions, see these things and just see a huge floating Ron Prince head where the uniforms and QB would be and freaks the eff out. they are completely blind to anything good or superior that occurred during that timeframe. if jordy nelson hadn't been a riley kansas white kid who originally signed with bill our majority Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) fanbase would hate his guts for looking exactly like a floating ron prince head.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
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If I had to choose between Percell Gaskins and Arthur Brown, I'd tell Arthur Brown to go eff himself (in the nicest possible way).
Percell was a rough ridin' freak.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.huskermax.com%2Fimages%2Fgaskins.jpg&hash=a2a65374e1274168550a5acf3ad1a0f089ad3421)
no idea who that is
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What sd would rather the football team wear over the Snyder unis:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fkeepinitreal2.webs.com%2FPurple-Plain-T-shirt-Gildan-2000-Brand-New-t-shirts-top-tees-www_MoreThanATshirt_com.jpg&hash=96b0e98de7000fc900153cda682c0feb016d6577)
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i know we like to joke and whatever, but anyone's linebacker list without Sean Lowe is rough ridin' stupid.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
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Freeman was fantastic. Just look at the numbers he put up with Logan Dold and Lamark Brown at running back. It's not his fault that Ron Prince chose to not recruit a defense and then run an offense that puts continuous pressure on that defense.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
I was the first person to show him around campus cause I was his ambassador at the time. He showed up so nice and motivated. By the time he had left: He'd brag to ppl about how he wanted to make a bronze male genitals of himself once he had hit up to a thousand girls, was usually passed out on some pool table every weekend, actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college, and just ended up being an arrogant douche overall . But other than that, I like the guy.
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I would do all that stuff and more if I was Josh Freeman
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Lulz at Dlew and his supporters
what was Freemaw's record against the teams people care about other than Texas?
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actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college,
You go out and prey on married women under the auspices of owning this site.
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I would do all that stuff and more if I was Josh Freeman
Well, ya. I'm just jealous.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
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Lulz at Dlew and his supporters
what was Freemaw's record against the teams people care about other than Texas?
0-0
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Did most of you start watching football in the Prince era? There are some awful lists on here. Freeman or A. Brown being on any list is almost laughable at this point.
Why, exactly, is Freeman's presence laughable?
You have a hard-on for his stats or something? Why is throwing for 44 TDs impressive when you also throw 34 INTs? That isn't the TD/INT ration I like. Career completion percentage is under 60%. If there was a chance for Freeman to crap his pants, he usually found a way. Blaming his career record on the defense is laughable. I defense the last three years has been damn near as terrible as the Prince years (if not worse in some respects). Snyder has simply willed them to make the big plays in big situations.......must to the disliking of Cosh.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, career record as a starter: 14-18.
The guy sucked. Simple as that.
:lol:
Is this a steve dave sock?
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Gary Spani
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
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I took rum pulls from the same bottle as freems at the elite, upstairs VIP section of a house party the weekend before the Louisville game (remember? it was on a wednesday!)
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Kevin Lockett
Jordy Nelson
Andre Coleman
Darnell McDonald
Quincy Morgan
Josh Freeman
Michael Bishop
Ell Roberson
Chad May
Jonathan Beasley
Mark Simoneau
Terry Pierce
Percell Gaskins
Jeff Kelly
Ben Leber
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
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T. Newman
C. Canty
J. Gordon
K. McIntyre
D. Faggins
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Returners:
D. Allen
A. Lockett
B. Banks
T. Newman
Y. Figures
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Returners:
D. Allen
A. Lockett
B. Banks
T. Newman
Y. Figures
deon murphy would be somewhere in my list
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Any list that has Freemaw above Bishop is ridiculous.
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Too bad Derrick Evans didn't get a senior year.
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Any list that has Freemaw above Bishop is ridiculous.
This.
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Man, this is going to get a little messy with the quote function, but here goes nothing.
You have a hard-on for his stats or something? Why is throwing for 44 TDs impressive when you also throw 34 INTs? That isn't the TD/INT ration I like.
The thing about Freeman that a lot of people forget, is that he started as a freshman. His freshman season, he had terrible statistics. 6 tds, 15 ints (the Phog guys were so mean after that season). Which begs the question, how does his freshman statistics fit in the context of the rest of his careers, and the context of the rest of the KSU qbs in the discussion. Well, the thing is, in the last two decades, NO FRESHMAN QB AT KSU HAS BEEN GOOD. Hardly any have had the opportunity. The youngest guy I can remember starting as even a RS freshman under Snyder was Evridge (HA!). Besides him, Roberson started as a RS Sophomore and his numbers that year (when he was already 2 years older than Freeman was) were just dreadful.
My point is, is that Freemaw's TD/INT ratio is completely skewed because of his 6/15 freshman year disaster. During his final two years, he threw for 38/19 which isn't bad.
Career completion percentage is under 60%.
So was Chad May's (56.1), Ell's (48.9), Bishop's (49.4), Lynn Dickey (50.4) and probably every other qb in K-State history. FWIW, Freeman's completion percentage is over 59%.
If there was a chance for Freeman to crap his pants, he usually found a way. Blaming his career record on the defense is laughable.
Well, he certainly had a chance to crap his pants against UT at home, and didn't, so you're wrong.
Interesting, take on the defense though. Let's look at the numbers. In Freeman's 18 losses, the defense gave up an average of 41.5 points. I mean, averaging 42 points a game is a tall order for anyone. I think most people that were paying any attention in 2007/2008 would agree that the offense wasn't the issue; giving up over 33 points a game was.
I defense the last three years has been damn near as terrible as the Prince years (if not worse in some respects). Snyder has simply willed them to make the big plays in big situations.......must to the disliking of Cosh.
I'm not sure what your point is here, but, you're wrong. Under Snyder, the defense has given up an average of over 6 fewer points (or about a touchdown fewer) a game.
TL;DR:
You're a complete idiot who is ignoring the best passer Kansas State has ever had (8k yards in 2.5 years) because you don't like his head coach and the rest his shitty team, especially the defense.
Wake up, dumbass.
This is going to get even messier.
We can't eliminate his freshman year from the equation. Picking and choosing what stats you want in include in the argument is bullshit. He had a shitty freshman year, a pretty good sophomore year, and a pretty good junior year (mostly due to the fact he figured out he could actually run the ball -- his passing game actually degressed his junior year).
Nearly every other QB in recent history has been dual threat. For someone who was almost strictly a passing QB, you expect a high completion percentage. 59% may be highest among our QBs, but in relation to the rest of the college football world, that isn't very good.
I love how all the Freeman supporters constantly point to the Texas games as his defining moments as a truly great QB. I suppose the Texas wins also validate how awesome Prince was as a coach. Great QBs find a way to win games. Freeman never had that capability.
Last year's defense gave up closer to 5 fewer points a game than Prince's 2008 squad (Freeman's last year and our worst defense). Last year's defense gave up a little less than 4 points compared to the 2007 squad. Don't make Snyder's defense's out to be light years ahead of the Prince era. Morris was a far better D-coordinator than Cosh. Fact is, Freeman wasn't even close to winning most games. Our average margin of defeat was nearly 18 points during Freeman's last two years. In fact, during those last two years, we only had two losses that were decided by a TD or less. The rest were rough ridin' blowouts! Sure, the defense wasn't good, but Freeman couldn't keep us close anyways.
I'm done shooting holes in your paperbag argument. It sickens me to think some around here believe Josh Freeman was a Top 5 QB.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
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Dlewy and I were discussing how it's bullshit that Freeman doesn't get his due here at K-State. It's a shame. A travesty, if you will.
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D. Sproles
D. Thomas
J. Scobey
J. Smith
T. Clayton
Where's Frank Murphy?
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
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Dlewy and I were discussing how it's bullshit that Freeman doesn't get his due here at K-State. It's a shame. A travesty, if you will.
it's mainly our white trashy fans that get angry about him.
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Lulz at Dlew and his supporters
what was Freemaw's record against the teams people care about other than Texas?
0-0
:rolleyes:
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Last year's defense gave up closer to 5 fewer points a game than Prince's 2008 squad (Freeman's last year and our worst defense). Last year's defense gave up a little less than 4 points compared to the 2007 squad. Don't make Snyder's defense's out to be light years ahead of the Prince era. Morris was a far better D-coordinator than Cosh. Fact is, Freeman wasn't even close to winning most games. Our average margin of defeat was nearly 18 points during Freeman's last two years. In fact, during those last two years, we only had two losses that were decided by a TD or less. The rest were rough ridin' blowouts! Sure, the defense wasn't good, but Freeman couldn't keep us close anyways.
I'm done shooting holes in your paperbag argument. It sickens me to think some around here believe Josh Freeman was a Top 5 QB.
Actually the difference was more than 8 points per game, and if you weren't Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), you would know that that makes a huge difference. That defense was 114th in the nation in points allowed per game.
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Hey, shivvyman, if you add 8 points to the other team's score for every game last season, how many games did Klein win?
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This is going to get even messier.
We can't eliminate his freshman year from the equation. Picking and choosing what stats you want in include in the argument is bullshit. He had a shitty freshman year, a pretty good sophomore year, and a pretty good junior year (mostly due to the fact he figured out he could actually run the ball -- his passing game actually degressed his junior year).
Nearly every other QB in recent history has been dual threat. For someone who was almost strictly a passing QB, you expect a high completion percentage. 59% may be highest among our QBs, but in relation to the rest of the college football world, that isn't very good.
I love how all the Freeman supporters constantly point to the Texas games as his defining moments as a truly great QB. I suppose the Texas wins also validate how awesome Prince was as a coach. Great QBs find a way to win games. Freeman never had that capability.
Last year's defense gave up closer to 5 fewer points a game than Prince's 2008 squad (Freeman's last year and our worst defense). Last year's defense gave up a little less than 4 points compared to the 2007 squad. Don't make Snyder's defense's out to be light years ahead of the Prince era. Morris was a far better D-coordinator than Cosh. Fact is, Freeman wasn't even close to winning most games. Our average margin of defeat was nearly 18 points during Freeman's last two years. In fact, during those last two years, we only had two losses that were decided by a TD or less. The rest were rough ridin' blowouts! Sure, the defense wasn't good, but Freeman couldn't keep us close anyways.
I'm done shooting holes in your paperbag argument. It sickens me to think some around here believe Josh Freeman was a Top 5 QB.
So Dickey and May can get away with >60% completion percentages, but Freeman can't.
Got it.
Let me reiterate, in '07 and 08, everyone with eyes knew that the problem was our defense. I can't believe it's taken less than a decade for anti-Freeman revisionist history to set in. He was a phenomenal quarterback under a horrible coach on an absolutely terrible team.
Anyone who doesn't like him does so for completely non-football reasons. Either because he's perceived as cocky, or not "K-State" enough, or because he was a Prince recruit. Those reasons, while they may be true, are completely irrelevant to this discussion.
Anyways, you haven't posted your top 5. I'd love to see it.
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isn't it obvious that no other QB in the history of KSU football belongs in the same room with Josh Freeman. i thought it was. i guess i was wrong.
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
I think it depends largely on who is coaching the team, but with most coaches Freeman would be the no brainer choice.
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
You would take Chad May if you liked more TD's and less INT's, everything else is really close though. Except wins of course, LOL.
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I'd probably take grant gregory or carson coffman over freeman..
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
I think it depends largely on who is coaching the team, but with most coaches Freeman would be the no brainer choice.
I don't think Freeman would have been any better under Snyder. He could run a bit, and was tough to bring down, but he was effing slow. It doesn't seem that he would have excelled under Snyder's schemes. But who am I to say. I would still take Bishop, maybe not in the '98 Dr. Pepper though.
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
You would take Chad May if you liked more TD's and less INT's, everything else is really close though. Except wins of course, LOL.
Actually May had 10 fewer passing TDs and almost 3,000 fewer yards than Freeman.
May had almost -500 yards rushing (7 rushing TDs). Freemaw's career rushing was about 350 (20 rushing TDs).
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I'd probably take grant gregory or carson coffman over freeman..
Let's not get carried away now!
Curious as to why Ell isn't getting more love on the QB list, I guess I'd go:
Bishop
Freeman
Beasley (he won a LOT of games)
Dickey (Grogan? Never watched either play for the 'Cats)
Roberson
May
(not putting active duty QBs on the list, though I think Klein and possibly Sams make this list eventually - don't ask me who they'll displace)
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WRs
Nelson
McDonald
Morgan
Lockett (K)
#5 is a toss up among a lot of guys: Terry, Lockett (A), Banks, Figurs
(not sure if any on our current roster make this list someday, though I'm excited to see some of the new talent on this year's team)
LBs
Simoneau
Leber (don't know why he's so far down on many lists here - he's had a VERY solid pro career)
Spani (!)
Kelly
Pierce
Close cut: Gaskins, Buhl
(I think Brown will be here someday)
RBs
Sproles
Thomas
Herron
Scobey
Cartwright
Honorable mentions: Hixson, Lawrence, Smith (JJ), Murphy
:ksu:
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
You would take Chad May if you liked more TD's and less INT's, everything else is really close though. Except wins of course, LOL.
Actually May had 10 fewer passing TDs and almost 3,000 fewer yards than Freeman.
May had almost -500 yards rushing (7 rushing TDs). Freemaw's career rushing was about 350 (20 rushing TDs).
You are comparing career stats with Freeman's 3 years starting to May's 2. If you average the stat's they are very close, except like I said before May has more TD and less Int's, and so many more wins. What could May have done with another year, who knows, I don't but I bet it would have been neat with lots of TD and not very many INT's.
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give every college coach that has ever coached the game a choice between Josh Freeman and Chad May and 100% take Josh Freeman. he's just miles better than May. the fact that this is being debated is hilarious.
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LHC Bill Snyder WOULD TAKE MAY!
no he wouldn't dumbass. in fact, he would laugh that you even thought there was a reason to ask him.
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Honorable mentions: Hixson, Lawrence, Smith (JJ), Murphy
:ksu:
Hickson*
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LHC Bill Snyder WOULD TAKE MAY!
no he wouldn't dumbass. in fact, he would laugh that you even thought there was a reason to ask him.
Of course he would all that 6'5" 250 lbs with the beautiful brown doe eyes of potential would be irresistible.
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Hickson*
Good catch, thanks!
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
You would take Chad May if you liked more TD's and less INT's, everything else is really close though. Except wins of course, LOL.
Actually May had 10 fewer passing TDs and almost 3,000 fewer yards than Freeman.
May had almost -500 yards rushing (7 rushing TDs). Freemaw's career rushing was about 350 (20 rushing TDs).
You are comparing career stats with Freeman's 3 years starting to May's 2. If you average the stat's they are very close, except like I said before May has more TD and less Int's, and so many more wins. What could May have done with another year, who knows, I don't but I bet it would have been neat with lots of TD and not very many INT's.
Okay I'm up for giving May another (half) year but it has to be against only conference competition and it has to be his true freshman season.
Let's see if his stats get better or worse.
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If you can find five QB's that a better than Freeman, then I would love to see it.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
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FWIW, as I posted earlier in this thread, I'd take Bish over Freeman all day. No one else though.
You would take Chad May if you liked more TD's and less INT's, everything else is really close though. Except wins of course, LOL.
Actually May had 10 fewer passing TDs and almost 3,000 fewer yards than Freeman.
May had almost -500 yards rushing (7 rushing TDs). Freemaw's career rushing was about 350 (20 rushing TDs).
You are comparing career stats with Freeman's 3 years starting to May's 2. If you average the stat's they are very close, except like I said before May has more TD and less Int's, and so many more wins. What could May have done with another year, who knows, I don't but I bet it would have been neat with lots of TD and not very many INT's.
Okay I'm up for giving May another (half) year but it has to be against only conference competition and it has to be his true freshman season.
Let's see if his stats get better or worse.
OK, sure they get worse, Freshman Chad May drops from 7.6 yds/att to 7.0 and 2.1 TD/Int ratio to 1.3. Which just happen to be Freemans career averages. Does May get a future star NFL receiver to throw to, if so then I guess they could only get better, huh?
Look, there is no doubt that Freeman is the most talented QB to ever come through KSU. But in my mind QB's area judged on how many pelts...ha ha eff that. QBs need to win, move the chains, throw TD's and protect the ball. Freeman was the best there ever was at one of those and good to below average at the rest. Not all his fault but the pattern has continued in the NFL (where Chad May washed out).
*Edit for too harsh on Freemaw
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so blinded by dislike of Ron Prince that you cannot see what is going on in front of you. we won the games we won during ron's years because of josh. we won with the millers, kavanaughs, mays, beasleys, despite them. they were serviceable, but none of them ever won a game over a vastly superior team because of how they played. josh did.
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Taco Wallace :driving:
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so blinded by dislike of Ron Prince that you cannot see what is going on in front of you. we won the games we won during ron's years because of josh. we won with the millers, kavanaughs, mays, beasleys, despite them. they were serviceable, but none of them ever won a game over a vastly superior team because of how they played. josh did.
Yeah, I'm finished arguing it.
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Bishop is only QB that i have no problem putting ahead of Freemaw
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If you could only choose one per scenario and no repeats:
One Game: Klein
One Season: Bish
One Career: Freeman
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What about Jimmy Dean at RB?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
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DOD Take 2 just stirred up some serious crap :bwpopcorn:
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98% sure that me and freeman are eskimo brothers
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I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
NBD.
Are you/did you live with Kite's trivia guy/guy with weird convertible ford bronco thing?
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you guys should fight :dubious:
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the only guy in this thread i want to fight is shivy because he's a racist
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I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
NBD.
Are you/did you live with Kite's trivia guy/guy with weird convertible ford bronco thing?
lol
No, he moved in after I left. Also, I think one of his bum roommates stole a black xbox from DU when he was drunk over the winter break of '10.
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I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
NBD.
Are you/did you live with Kite's trivia guy/guy with weird convertible ford bronco thing?
lol
No, he moved in after I left. Also, I think one of his bum roommates stole a black xbox from DU when he was drunk over the winter break of '10.
lol. I know whose Xbox this was. He was so confused. Awesome :thumbs:
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I think we can all agree that this guy is just lucky he didn't walk away with KKK's black xbox. He wouldn't still be walking, if you know what I mean.
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I lived at the corner of University and Claflin in 08-09 and DID NOT explode mortar(Fireworks not fort riley) shells in DU's volleyball court on a regular basis.
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I lived at the corner of University and Claflin in 08-09 and DID NOT explode mortar(Fireworks not fort riley) shells in DU's volleyball court on a regular basis.
In the track house??
As for the mortar, I would have absolutely done the same thing. With that said, :shakesfist:
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No track house when I was there, not even sure what a track house is. Is that like a place where KU bball players go to shoot their dope?
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I just knew that they had the letters TRK on the side of the house (probably to mock the Greek system) and I had heard at one point that a bunch of track athletes lived there.
But ya, it was probably just like the KU drug place.
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No track house when I was there, not even sure what a track house is. Is that like a place where KU bball players go to shoot their dope?
That house has been rented by track "athletes" for like 4 straight years.
Also, we stole sand from the volleyball court to use in our cigarette/cigar buckets.
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I just knew that they had the letters TRK on the side of the house (probably to mock the Greek system) and I had heard at one point that a bunch of track athletes lived there.
But ya, it was probably just like the KU drug place.
A former DU/Olympian lives in the TRK frat now.
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I never in my wildest dreams would have thought that by starting this thread I would find out who stole the vanished XBOX. This is unreal.
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Impressive thread is impressive.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
Some dude got really confrontational with me the day I moved into DU because I was walking by as he was pissing on out sign.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
Some dude got really confrontational with me the day I moved into DU because I was walking by as he was pissing on out sign.
Did he refer to it as his "pissing sign"? Because that wasn't me, for the record.
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I will admit my dislike for freemaw is way more personal than anything. I know he's great.
What did he do to you?
actually hooked up with two girls I was seeing in college
This says much more about the girls you date than it does Josh, fwiw.
Touche. #TeamFreemaw
You should feel honored that Freemaw took your leftovers.
Oh, man. :thumbs:
making out with freeman at a TKE party was like a rite of passage for college girls back in my day. or so i've heard....
I was a TKE, can confirm that 99% of girls at the house hooked up with Freemaw. Dude was never a huge douche, at least when he was at our house.
Also, I moved after sophomore year to the house directly in front of DU's parking lot. Sorry if we pissed on your sign/broke your crap.
Some dude got really confrontational with me the day I moved into DU because I was walking by as he was pissing on out sign.
Did he refer to it as his "pissing sign"? Because that wasn't me, for the record.
Are you black? (no :opcat:). This man was of african american descent.
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Back on topic. :moreira: <----- is my favorite. Mainly because if this.
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i am super late to this party.
freeman would have done better than bishop if they switched places.
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This a list made from the heart and not the head
So my favorites in order:
Klein
Ell
Bishop
Chunky butt (out of guilt, I wanted Ell the whole season and felt bad afterwards because Ol' Johnny had a good year)
I'll always hate Freeman. Right or wrong, he will forever be tied to RP in my head. I lost interest in those years to be honest. My world was being shattered and FreeFro was at the helm qb-ing. If anyone has any video of his games, I'd be up for watching them to rethink my opinion.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp)
We would've been VERY salty in '08 if Neon Leon was in the backfield and beautiful person Lamark Brown devoted 100% of his time to catching footballs!
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liking k-state football is COOL again!
:grin:
wrong thread, do'h!
:embarrassed:
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the only guy in this thread i want to fight is shivy because he's a racist
I'm racist against all shitty black QBs who have played for KSU. Freeman included.
Although, wasn't Freeman mulatto? Looked pretty white other than the chest pubes growing on his head.
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Welp
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i am super late to this party.
freeman would have done better than bishop if they switched places.
Wut
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Freeman was kind of a dick to me the only time we interacted but it doesn't change the fact that he was a top fiveish QB talent to ever play at K-State.
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Also, lol at the Xbox story.
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If you could only choose one per scenario and no repeats:
One Game: Klein
One Season: Bish
One Career: Freeman
I take Bishop in every single rough ridin' scenario you can ever imagine (except for math and spelling contests).
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Also, lol at the Xbox story.
No kidding. I feel like my life is complete.
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If you could only choose one per scenario and no repeats:
One Game: Klein
One Season: Bish
One Career: Freeman
I take Bishop in every single rough ridin' scenario you can ever imagine (except for math and spelling contests).
yeah this blows my mind.. Bishop may have been one of the greatest college quarterbacks of all time.
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I'll take the Davey O'Brien award winner and runner up for heisman with a 22-3 career record over lame ass Freemaw any day of the week. This discussion is redic.
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All this thread did was make me wish for the days when we had WR's that were over 6 ft tall.
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Andre definitely deserves some love. Used to hold the Super Bowl KO return record (first KO returned for a TD in SB history, I believe).
Eugene Goodlow was an amazing wideout. He was a pre-season Playboy All American his junior year, I believe. However, he opted to go play ball in Canada (or just drop out, can't remember) instead that same season. Was amazing his short career at KSU playing on some horrific teams to say the least. Play 2 years in the CFL, and then when he became eligible for the NFL did 4 years with the Saints. He was a real deep threat and made some huge plays (which were often accompanied by heart breaking losses (I believe he caught the big TD against Tulane in the Superdome with about 1 minute left apparently giving the 'Cats the win, but KSU lost the game became the DC left the both to go meet the team in the locker room to celebrate the win and Tulane came back with a quick TD to put the 'Cats away).
Mike Wallace was a great possession receiver who was damn tough.
Either of those guys, if they had played in the Snyder era, would have been pretty awesome (though Goodlow may have been in the doghouse and never saw the field under OB).
Goodlow was long gone before Stan Parrish's Tulane debacle.
Goodlow (who also played basketball) was a star in 1978 during the first season Jim Dickey was at K-State
Goodlow quit the team and then went to Canada, played for the Saints
The 1978 K-State team won 4 games, after back to back 1 an 10 years
Non Con was pretty tough, losing to Auburn, beat Air Force when Parcells was coach
Got 3 conference wins (Okie State, Colorado- Top 20 team, Kansas) in a real good Big 8
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Jordy Nelson is so freakin' good. :excited:
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp)
We would've been VERY salty in '08 if Neon Leon was in the backfield and beautiful person Lamark Brown devoted 100% of his time to catching footballs!
Eh, we would have scored a lot of points, but that defense was so bad that it really wouldn't have mattered.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp)
We would've been VERY salty in '08 if Neon Leon was in the backfield and beautiful person Lamark Brown devoted 100% of his time to catching footballs!
Eh, we would have scored a lot of points, but that defense was so bad that it really wouldn't have mattered.
didn't stop 2011 baylor.
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QB's
Bishop- guy was a straight up winner, powerful arm, great runner, refused to lose, his determination and athleticism were the driving forces behind that team
Roberson- excellent runner, good passer, strong arm. He put pressure on the defense in many ways and once he devoted the time to reading defenses, he became a beast.
Freeman- physical freak. Probably had the same abilities but coach and his eye towards the NFL kept him in the passing only mode. He beefed up to 250lbs, but was probably a better runner at 230. Didn't win as much, but wasn't his fault.
Lynn Dickey- great passer, led the team to new heights and nearly fought off the long history of losing 20+ yrs before HCBS was able to pull it off.
Steve Grogan- multidimensional QB who played on awful teams, but proved his worth with a long NFL career with the Patriots.
Wendell Henrickson- OK, just kidding. For those of you who don't remember, played during the really dark yrs. Tiny QB with no offensive line who pretty much snapped the ball and ran for his life...but he had a good arm.
On the RB''s, Sproles is obviously the man...but, going back a little,
Mack Herron- Played with Dickey-led teams in the late 60's. Tremendous multipurpose player who could do it all..another mighty mite like Sproles
Larry Brown- Played mostly fullback at KSU but went on to have a very good career in the NFL with Washington, pre-Riggins.
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Just go sit in a rough ridin' corner, BigDeal
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QB's
Bishop- guy was a straight up winner, powerful arm, great runner, refused to lose, his determination and athleticism were the driving forces behind that team
Roberson- excellent runner, good passer, strong arm. He put pressure on the defense in many ways and once he devoted the time to reading defenses, he became a beast.
Freeman- physical freak. Probably had the same abilities but coach and his eye towards the NFL kept him in the passing only mode. He beefed up to 250lbs, but was probably a better runner at 230. Didn't win as much, but wasn't his fault.
Lynn Dickey- great passer, led the team to new heights and nearly fought off the long history of losing 20+ yrs before HCBS was able to pull it off.
Steve Grogan- multidimensional QB who played on awful teams, but proved his worth with a long NFL career with the Patriots.
Wendell Henrickson- OK, just kidding. For those of you who don't remember, played during the really dark yrs. Tiny QB with no offensive line who pretty much snapped the ball and ran for his life...but he had a good arm.
On the RB''s, Sproles is obviously the man...but, going back a little,
Mack Herron- Played with Dickey-led teams in the late 60's. Tremendous multipurpose player who could do it all..another mighty mite like Sproles
Larry Brown- Played mostly fullback at KSU but went on to have a very good career in the NFL with Washington, pre-Riggins.
nice of cyclist to finally make his way over here.
JK; WELCOME, BIGDEAL! :grin:
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Just go sit in a rough ridin' corner, BigDeal
:horrorsurprise: hey SPBT, i liked your zack morris pic and all, but that was just plain mean!
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITRi05ubQ-I&list=UU42MTdCtnv85DpRuJf9zDzQ&index=5&feature=plcp)
We would've been VERY salty in '08 if Neon Leon was in the backfield and beautiful person Lamark Brown devoted 100% of his time to catching footballs!
Eh, we would have scored a lot of points, but that defense was so bad that it really wouldn't have mattered.
didn't stop 2011 baylor.
KSU 2008 offense was no where near 2011 Baylor offense.
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Yeah, bishop wanted to win so bad that he fumbled away the biggest game IN school history
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Yeah, bishop wanted to win so bad that he fumbled away the biggest game IN school history
yeah the fumble was def. a product of him not wanting to win badly enough
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It was the electrical signals or some crap.
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If freeman played for Snyder this list would look a lot different! Dam trad burned money, could of been at top 3 pick.
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QB's
Bishop- guy was a straight up winner, powerful arm, great runner, refused to lose, his determination and athleticism were the driving forces behind that team
Roberson- excellent runner, good passer, strong arm. He put pressure on the defense in many ways and once he devoted the time to reading defenses, he became a beast.
Freeman- physical freak. Probably had the same abilities but coach and his eye towards the NFL kept him in the passing only mode. He beefed up to 250lbs, but was probably a better runner at 230. Didn't win as much, but wasn't his fault.
Lynn Dickey- great passer, led the team to new heights and nearly fought off the long history of losing 20+ yrs before HCBS was able to pull it off.
Steve Grogan- multidimensional QB who played on awful teams, but proved his worth with a long NFL career with the Patriots.
Wendell Henrickson- OK, just kidding. For those of you who don't remember, played during the really dark yrs. Tiny QB with no offensive line who pretty much snapped the ball and ran for his life...but he had a good arm.
On the RB''s, Sproles is obviously the man...but, going back a little,
Mack Herron- Played with Dickey-led teams in the late 60's. Tremendous multipurpose player who could do it all..another mighty mite like Sproles
Larry Brown- Played mostly fullback at KSU but went on to have a very good career in the NFL with Washington, pre-Riggins.
Love the history lessons here, but Daniel Thomas behind Herron or Brown? Don't think so.
Additionally, Mack Herron couldn't carry Sproles' jock strap.
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i am super late to this party.
freeman would have done better than bishop if they switched places.
Wut
i didn't stutter, wes mantooth.
bishop had the benefit of a great team around him, freemaw didn't. they both made their share of bone-headed plays, but bishop had a little wiggle room because of great team.
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Bishop was playing behind the best offensive line kansas state has ever had. he also had an amazing defense that he didn't have to make up for by being overly aggresive. he was amazing. but anyone saying Josh Freeman wasn't also amazing is absolutely Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) at football watching and processing what you watch.
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had Freeman played w/ Bishop's oline he would have never fumbled, been sacked or hurried. and KSU easily would have won the BCS championship thingy.
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Where do RB's Rock Cartwright and Joe Hall fit in?
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Where do RB's Rock Cartwright and Joe Hall fit in?
Joe Hall would probably not crack the top 25 rb list
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Hey remember when all you guys were talking crap on Snyder before last year? Your credibility is almost nil....especially michigancat
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Hey remember when all you guys were talking crap on Snyder before last year? Your credibility is almost nil....especially michigancat
Link?
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any list leaving veryl switzer off of the top 5 rb's is retarted imo
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any list leaving veryl switzer off of the top 5 rb's is retarted imo
sounds like someone old that i've never heard of or care about.
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any list leaving veryl switzer off of the top 5 rb's is retarted imo
sounds like someone old that i've never heard of or care about.
college football hall of famer for the wild wild wild wildcats back in the rough ridin' 1950s
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any list leaving veryl switzer off of the top 5 rb's is retarted imo
sounds like someone old that i've never heard of or care about.
college football hall of famer for the wild wild wild wildcats back in the rough ridin' 1950s
fake
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any list leaving veryl switzer off of the top 5 rb's is retarted imo
sounds like someone old that i've never heard of or care about.
college football hall of famer for the wild wild wild wildcats back in the rough ridin' 1950s
if we're making a list of the "top ____" then don't rough ridin' dare putting someone's name who played before the 90's.
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here's the thing about our fans. they are, for the most part, rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). the uniforms we had under prince were far superior to the snyder striped uniforms. josh freeman would have been one of if not the best QB LHC LHC Bill Snyder ever recruited/coached. our fanbase apparently, based on their reactions, see these things and just see a huge floating Ron Prince head where the uniforms and QB would be and freaks the eff out. they are completely blind to anything good or superior that occurred during that timeframe. if jordy nelson hadn't been a riley kansas white kid who originally signed with bill our majority Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) fanbase would hate his guts for looking exactly like a floating ron prince head.
That might be one of the greatest K-State bbs posts of all time.
OF ALL TIME.
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the uniforms we had under prince were far superior to the snyder striped uniforms.
no. hell no.
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here's the thing about our fans. they are, for the most part, rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). the uniforms we had under prince were far superior to the snyder striped uniforms. josh freeman would have been one of if not the best QB LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC LHC Bill Snyder ever recruited/coached. our fanbase apparently, based on their reactions, see these things and just see a huge floating Ron Prince head where the uniforms and QB would be and freaks the eff out. they are completely blind to anything good or superior that occurred during that timeframe. if jordy nelson hadn't been a riley kansas white kid who originally signed with bill our majority Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) fanbase would hate his guts for looking exactly like a floating ron prince head.
We had some pretty remarkable moments during the Prince era...like expecting to be irrelevant from day 1 and knowing we had to score at least 40 to win.
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Put Bishop on those teams Freeman played on...would we fare better, the same, worse?
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much worse.