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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on January 30, 2012, 01:44:49 PM
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In any given election cycle, and politics in general, we hear a lot about "the poor." Most often, liberals invoke the devastating consequences to the poor of any efforts to curtail spending. And most people of any political persuasion would agree that the government should provide a safety net for the poor, but maybe it's time to redefine what poor means. A new study (http://campaign2012.washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/feds-%E2%80%98poor%E2%80%99-consume-rich/348206) re-confirms that America is a pretty darned good place to be "poor."
As President Obama crafts a reelection income equality message aimed at punishing the rich and rewarding the poor, his own government finds that the 46 million living below the so-called “poverty line” live and spend pretty much like everyone else.
Forget the image of Appalachia or rundown ghettos: A collection of federal household consumption surveys collected by pollster Scott Rasmussen finds that 74 percent of the poor own a car or truck, 70 percent have a VCR, 64 percent have a DVD, 63 percent have cable or satellite, 53 percent have a video game system, 50 percent have a computer, 30 percent have two or more cars and 23 percent use TiVo.
“What the government defines as poverty is vastly different from what most Americans envision,” he writes in his newly released book, “The People’s Money.” Consider other details from two recent Department of Agriculture surveys cited in the book:
--On an average day, just 1 percent of households have someone who is forced to miss a meal.
--On any day, children are hungry in .25 percent of U.S. homes.
--96 percent of poor parents say their children were never hungry during the year because they couldn’t afford food.
--83 percent of the poor said they have enough to eat.
Says Rasmussen, “About 40 million Americans are officially defined as living below the poverty line. Yet most of those have adequate levels of food, shelter, clothing and medical care. Sixty-three percent of American adults believe such a family is not living in poverty,” he writes. “Only 16 percent believe that a family is living in poverty if it has two color televisions, cable or satellite TV, a DVD player, and a VCR, but that’s what the average family living in poverty has as defined by the U.S. government,” he adds.
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Don't poor people get free food? Of course they're not hungry.
And WTF with "color" TV?
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And WTF with "color" TV?
How else are they supposed to enjoy their VCR's?
:cool: <---poor people watchin' their VHS tapes on their color TV's.
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Real poor (http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1266&bih=768&q=poor&gbv=2&oq=poor&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1061l1601l0l1865l4l4l0l0l0l0l71l199l3l3l0) versus American poor (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Tzoz0S7GlAU/ToS4Uigz53I/AAAAAAAABTY/Qtqh7InMLiY/s400/SharonJasperNOLA.jpg).
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Real poor (http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1266&bih=768&q=poor&gbv=2&oq=poor&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1061l1601l0l1865l4l4l0l0l0l0l71l199l3l3l0) versus American poor (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Tzoz0S7GlAU/ToS4Uigz53I/AAAAAAAABTY/Qtqh7InMLiY/s400/SharonJasperNOLA.jpg).
Nobody should have to suffer with a rear projection hi def tv. That is so 2004.
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The new conservative paradigm of "there aren't any ACTUAL poor people in this country!" is so laughable it's not even worth addressing.
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The new conservative paradigm of "there aren't any ACTUAL poor people in this country!" is so laughable it's not even worth addressing.
Nobody is saying that.
Props for being right on cue though
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The new conservative paradigm of "there aren't any ACTUAL poor people in this country!" is so laughable it's not even worth addressing.
Nobody is saying that.
Props for being right on cue though
Yes they are.
You're welcome
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i've seen some really poor people, and they were pretty happy. no cops.
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Poor people have to tie their shoes because they can't afford loafers.
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The uhh Republicans, the uhh the other guys, they'll have you believin' uhhh they'll be sayin' bein' poor ain't so bad errrr bein poor is easy or uhhhh what they're actually sayin is we don't care about the poor!!!. Well I care about the poor, because that's all of you and that's me, I was poor, and if elected for a second term I'm gonna tax the rich, and make them errr the rich, pay their fair share, and build an economy that works fer everyone, and then everyone is better off.
:facepalm:
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74% own cars/trucks. Fantastic spin there.
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70% own cars/trucks. Fantastic spin there.
really flies in the face of this comment, doesn't it?
I'm pretty sure all poor people take public transit so they don't really care about oil prices.
I don't know who to believe
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Well clearly someone has never caught an episode of repo men.
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Real poor (http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1266&bih=768&q=poor&gbv=2&oq=poor&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1061l1601l0l1865l4l4l0l0l0l0l71l199l3l3l0) versus American poor (http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Tzoz0S7GlAU/ToS4Uigz53I/AAAAAAAABTY/Qtqh7InMLiY/s400/SharonJasperNOLA.jpg).
Nobody should have to suffer with a rear projection hi def tv. That is so 2004.
I think that picture was taken around 2007 or 2008, so I'm sure she's upgraded by now.
Real poverty (http://images.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1280&bih=737&q=poverty&gbv=2&oq=poverty&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=2401l3769l0l4222l7l7l0l3l3l0l187l395l3.1l4l0) versus American poverty (http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/images/2009/03/05/obamamichmiriamsappablomartnzmonsiv.jpg).
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70% own cars/trucks. Fantastic spin there.
really flies in the face of this comment, doesn't it?
I'm pretty sure all poor people take public transit so they don't really care about oil prices.
I don't know who to believe
LOL. So cute.
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I have a high school friend who has the cheap subscription to Netflix and only goes to Whole Foods like once a month. I help him out when I can and don't blame him for voting Democrat.
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70% own cars/trucks. Fantastic spin there.
really flies in the face of this comment, doesn't it?
I'm pretty sure all poor people take public transit so they don't really care about oil prices.
I don't know who to believe
LOL. So cute.
you didn't make that up did you?
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=18625.50
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http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/angry-about-inequality-dont-blame-the-rich/2012/01/03/gIQA9S2fTQ_story_2.html
good read
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as comparatively generous?
who knew?
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-0228-greed-20120228,0,5965885.story
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as comparatively generous?
who knew?
http://www.latimes.com/news/science/la-sci-0228-greed-20120228,0,5965885.story
DNR. I stopped at UC Berkeley researchers. :facepalm:
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
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Piff, who is writing a paper about attitudes toward the Occupy movement, said that his team had been accused of waging class warfare from time to time.
"Berkeley has a certain reputation, so yeah, we get that," he said.
But rather than vilify the wealthy, Piff said, he hopes his work leads to policies that help bridge the gap between the haves and have-nots.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
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agree with this ^
now if you make 15-17K that is a fair number for the working poor
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
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I don't know where this fits in. But I think that you (individually or with your partner) should make a certain amount of money before you are allowed to have children. If you don't have adequate income to provide for a child, you shouldn't be having one in the first place.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
Yeah, they will get a decent return. I'm not saying they need charity or anything like that. I'm just saying that I would think of that person as poor. I certainly wouldn't view that person as middle class.
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disadvantaged maybe.
poor? no.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
Yeah, they will get a decent return. I'm not saying they need charity or anything like that. I'm just saying that I would think of that person as poor. I certainly wouldn't view that person as middle class.
Everybody looks poor through purple colored glasses, understandable.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
Yeah, they will get a decent return. I'm not saying they need charity or anything like that. I'm just saying that I would think of that person as poor. I certainly wouldn't view that person as middle class.
Everybody looks poor through purple colored glasses, understandable.
I guess that's true. :cheers:
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I'm kinda feeling poor reading some of this guise.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
A head of household in Kansas renting an apartment with 1 child making $35,000/ year will end up paying more than $1,000 in federal income taxes if you take the standard deduction, personal exemption and child care tax credit. There's another $1,800 or so in FICA, plus all your state and local taxes and fees.
This same person also will not qualify for SCHIP, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing etc.
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
A head of household in Kansas renting an apartment with 1 child making $35,000/ year will end up paying more than $1,000 in federal income taxes if you take the standard deduction, personal exemption and child care tax credit. There's another $1,800 or so in FICA, plus all your state and local taxes and fees.
This same person also will not qualify for SCHIP, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing etc.
Who makes 35k a year? :kstategrad:
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I would say you are poor if you make less than $35,000 per year.
That's like $17 per hour, and you aren't going to be paying any taxes if you have even one child. Doesn't seem that poor to me.
If you have one child at that pay, you are going to really struggle to find a place you can afford to live without having to share a room with that child.
It is pretty easy to find a two bdr apartment or even 2 bdr house to rent for $500 or less.
Licknecky is right. Once you get down to a full time job at like 18k a year that is real poverty. Full time at minimum wage is just over 15k per year. When I think of working poor I think of Mom working 30-40 hrs/ wk at close to minimum wage and Dad working 60+ slightly above min wage. It's worse when Mom is 60+ at near min.
When I think poor, I think of anything less than middle class. Somebody making $35,000 per year would have a monthly paycheck of just over $2000 after taxes. If they rent a $500 apartment, pay $500 per month for daycare, $100 per month for electric, $70 per month for gas, $200 per month on food, $100 per month on gasoline, and have a $200 car payment, that only leaves about $300 per month. That is living with no cell phone, cable, or internet.
This person is going to get a pretty big check back from the gov.
A head of household in Kansas renting an apartment with 1 child making $35,000/ year will end up paying more than $1,000 in federal income taxes if you take the standard deduction, personal exemption and child care tax credit. There's another $1,800 or so in FICA, plus all your state and local taxes and fees.
This same person also will not qualify for SCHIP, Food Stamps, Section 8 housing etc.
Who makes 35k a year? :kstategrad:
poor people.
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teachers? :dunno:
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teachers? :dunno:
poor people
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teachers? :dunno:
Not in your neck of the woods.
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teachers? :dunno:
Not in your neck of the woods.
I bet they're not paying taxes either right JD :lol:
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teachers? :dunno:
Not in your neck of the woods.
I bet they're not paying taxes either right JD :lol:
They're making $100K, so I would assume they are. I just hope those making $35,000 aren't coming to you for tax advice.
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teachers? :dunno:
Not in your neck of the woods.
I bet they're not paying taxes either right JD :lol:
They're making $100K, so I would assume they are. I just hope those making $35,000 aren't coming to you for tax advice.
I don't think they could afford much better advice.
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
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So JD, care to point out where I went wrong figuring the tax on a head of household making $35k? I mean your understanding of the current tax code is so vast and all. How big of check is the government going to cut that hypothetical person?
I even gave the person the benefit of the doubt that the kid was under 12 and sent to a qualifying daycare for the tax credit.
8500 standard deduction
3700 personal exemption
900 or so childcare credit
$1,000 child tax credit
What else do you want to add in here?
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html
That only shows that teachers are not making $100,000 in the bay area. Administrators are not teachers.
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My apologies JD, I found another whopping $160 through the EITC for our hypothetical worker with a kid. They still owe about $1,000 in federal income tax.
What else am I missing?
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html
That only shows that teachers are not making $100,000 in the bay area. Administrators are not teachers.
Santa Clara is in the bay area.
EDIT: Also, the TEACHER'S chart is average salary, so You have to imagine that if the average is say $80,000, there must be many making over $100K
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html
That only shows that teachers are not making $100,000 in the bay area. Administrators are not teachers.
Santa Clara is in the bay area.
Yeah, I didn't scroll down far enough. I just read the bold print at the top.
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teachers in my neck of the woods are not making $100k.
I thought you were in the Bay area?
yep
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-Oakland-CA.aspx
http://swz.salary.com/SalaryWizard/Teacher-Elementary-School-Salary-Details-San-Francisco-CA.aspx
http://www.sacbee.com/2011/01/26/995141/see-how-well-your-school-district.html
That only shows that teachers are not making $100,000 in the bay area. Administrators are not teachers.
Santa Clara is in the bay area.
EDIT: Also, the TEACHER'S chart is average salary, so You have to imagine that if the average is say $80,000, there must be many making over $100K
Yeah, while there are SOME teachers in the Bay area that make $100k/year, they are far from the norm, and concentrated mostly in Silicon Valley, which is not what I would consider my "neck of the woods".
But still, they exist. So really, we're both right.
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my aunt is a teacher in the sacramento suburbs, and she makes less than 13/hr equivalent.
i don't know how this fits into anything