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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 03:21:51 PM

Title: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 03:21:51 PM
3rd best defensive eFG%  ever in Big 12 games under Frank. 35.9% is just silly.

But it was still one of the most frustrating wins I've ever watched. Man, that was ugly. I would call it a grinder, but it didn't feel like a grinder, it just felt like bad basketball (by both teams).

At the end of the day, take the win and go home.

1st   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   33   0.93   46.6%   30.1%   50.0%   48.3%
Opp   33   0.72   32.0%   27.1%   26.3%   40.0%

2nd   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   34   1.02   30.8%   17.6%   47.8%   100.0%
Opp   34   0.99   40.5%   20.5%   6.7%   90.5%

Total   Pace   PPP   eFG%   TO%   OR%   FTR
KSU   68   0.97   39.1%   23.6%   48.9%   72.7%
Opp   68   0.85   35.9%   23.6%   17.6%   63.0%
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: CHONGS on January 21, 2012, 03:35:34 PM
shut down paige

i think if gip didn't get that T this is not as close as turned out to be.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 03:37:26 PM
shut down paige

i think if gip didn't get that T this is not as close as turned out to be.

True.

Our 2nd half shooting was pretty terrible though. 30.8%?!?!

But Oboards and actually making some FTs helped us hold them off.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: GoodForAnother on January 21, 2012, 03:39:53 PM
shut down paige

i think if gip didn't get that T this is not as close as turned out to be.

Gip Ross was dominating until the goddamn pigs came after his stash
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: CHONGS on January 21, 2012, 03:40:03 PM
I know OSU is not good this year, but it has been so long that a win in Stillwater makes me feel really happy.  
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sys on January 21, 2012, 03:40:24 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: ChiComCat on January 21, 2012, 03:42:08 PM
I know OSU is not good this year, but it has been so long that a win in Stillwater makes me feel really happy. 

Yea, I don't care how, its just nice to have @ OSU done with a W
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 03:44:00 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.

They took poor shots, had no movement and were really impatient.  Does Paige not have the ability to get himself open off of picks?  Travis Ford is terrible.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 03:48:13 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.

They took poor shots, had no movement and were really impatient.  Does Paige not have the ability to get himself open off of picks?  Travis Ford is terrible.

Some of their problems were because of our defense, but they are bad. I'm embarrassed I thought Nash might be good.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 03:49:58 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.

They took poor shots, had no movement and were really impatient.  Does Paige not have the ability to get himself open off of picks?  Travis Ford is terrible.

Some of their problems were because of our defense, but they are bad. I'm embarrassed I thought Nash might be good.

When horrible coaches happen to good players see Martin, Cartier.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: wetwillie on January 21, 2012, 03:56:53 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.

They took poor shots, had no movement and were really impatient.  Does Paige not have the ability to get himself open off of picks?  Travis Ford is terrible.

I don't think even Marcus Smart could save Ford's job.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: felix rex on January 21, 2012, 03:59:58 PM
osu helped, but kstate was good.

They took poor shots, had no movement and were really impatient.  Does Paige not have the ability to get himself open off of picks?

Agreed. I know Paige not hitting was an automatic talking point, but he was not getting good looks.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Powercat Posse on January 21, 2012, 04:00:06 PM
at one point OK St was 11-39 FG and 0-13 from deep.    Combination of us playing solid D, them taking some bad shots and Paige having an off game

UGLY ball is right = from the 16:45 to the 10:00 mark in the 2nd half our possesions were bad..... we scored ony 4 pts.   But our lead stays in tact (OK St scored 5 pts)

But us being Plus 21 on the boards and hitting 73% of our FTS in the 2nd ...... that was enough to get us a road win.







Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 04:06:39 PM
at one point OK St was 11-39 FG and 0-13 from deep.    Combination of us playing solid D, them taking some bad shots and Paige having an off game

UGLY ball is right = from the 16:45 to the 10:00 mark in the 2nd half our possesions were bad..... we scored ony 4 pts.   But our lead stays in tact (OK St scored 5 pts)

But us being Plus 21 on the boards and hitting 73% of our FTS in the 2nd ...... that was enough to get us a road win.









I hope the Paige thing doesn't become a prevailing talking point (I know it will).  Howard and Armstrong kept talking about him like he's JJ Redick.  He scored over his average.  If web are going to focus on Paige let's focus on how many shots he forced against defense.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: catzacker on January 21, 2012, 04:07:27 PM
But it was still one of the most frustrating wins I've ever watched. Man, that was ugly. I would call it a grinder, but it didn't feel like a grinder, it just felt like bad basketball (by both teams).

At the end of the day, take the win and go home.


It's like this team has an allergic reaction at the 5 minute mark of the second half.  But, oh well, we won this time.  

The baylor loss is even more painful now.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 04:08:46 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 04:20:33 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: catzacker on January 21, 2012, 04:25:05 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 04:26:13 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

Because I still think its a game we should've won. Seeing Missouri not just win, but really control the 2nd half, makes it a bit more frustrating. Nothing can be done about it now I guess.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 04:28:27 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: catzacker on January 21, 2012, 04:36:30 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.

i'm not asking for pixie dust or a time machine, simply saying that it's painful to watch a team w/ 6 players go to baylor and beat them when we had them with 5 minutes to go and couldn't close it out.  just kind of picked at an old wound.  if the big picture is winning the big 12, home losses have a lot to do with it.  but, i know, having expecations for this team is awful. and I could give two sh*ts about your "winning the big 12 is an unreasonable expectation for this team" so just save that.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 04:49:23 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.

i'm not asking for pixie dust or a time machine, simply saying that it's painful to watch a team w/ 6 players go to baylor and beat them when we had them with 5 minutes to go and couldn't close it out.  just kind of picked at an old wound.  if the big picture is winning the big 12, home losses have a lot to do with it.  but, i know, having expecations for this team is awful. and I could give two sh*ts about your "winning the big 12 is an unreasonable expectation for this team" so just save that.

lolwut?  If winning the conference is the talking point the KU loss was much more damaging.  Like I said a win against Baylor would have put us in 3rd place 2 games behind the conference leader, not exactly a prime position.  Now that we have the benefit of hindsight the OU loss was no more damaging than the Baylor loss.  Point is everyone loses teeth knashing over individual games here or there is pretty pointless.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 05:06:17 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.

i'm not asking for pixie dust or a time machine, simply saying that it's painful to watch a team w/ 6 players go to baylor and beat them when we had them with 5 minutes to go and couldn't close it out.  just kind of picked at an old wound.  if the big picture is winning the big 12, home losses have a lot to do with it.  but, i know, having expecations for this team is awful. and I could give two sh*ts about your "winning the big 12 is an unreasonable expectation for this team" so just save that.

lolwut?  If winning the conference is the talking point the KU loss was much more damaging.  Like I said a win against Baylor would have put us in 3rd place 2 games behind the conference leader, not exactly a prime position.  Now that we have the benefit of hindsight the OU loss was no more damaging than the Baylor loss.  Point is everyone loses teeth knashing over individual games here or there is pretty pointless.

Come on, that's part of bring a fan for 90% of fans. And I'm sure zacker is thinking had we beat BU its likely we win at OU too, but that's speculation. Both were frustrating losses and I have no problem with zacker or anyone being disappointed with either one.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sonofdaxjones on January 21, 2012, 05:18:27 PM
Really good defense.

Needed it.

Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 05:27:49 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.

i'm not asking for pixie dust or a time machine, simply saying that it's painful to watch a team w/ 6 players go to baylor and beat them when we had them with 5 minutes to go and couldn't close it out.  just kind of picked at an old wound.  if the big picture is winning the big 12, home losses have a lot to do with it.  but, i know, having expecations for this team is awful. and I could give two sh*ts about your "winning the big 12 is an unreasonable expectation for this team" so just save that.

lolwut?  If winning the conference is the talking point the KU loss was much more damaging.  Like I said a win against Baylor would have put us in 3rd place 2 games behind the conference leader, not exactly a prime position.  Now that we have the benefit of hindsight the OU loss was no more damaging than the Baylor loss.  Point is everyone loses teeth knashing over individual games here or there is pretty pointless.

Come on, that's part of bring a fan for 90% of fans. And I'm sure zacker is thinking had we beat BU its likely we win at OU too, but that's speculation. Both were frustrating losses and I have no problem with zacker or anyone being disappointed with either one.

So because 90% of fans do it that makes it okay?  There are many things that 90% of sports fans do/think that are irrational.  And stop changing the conversation, no one said you shouldn't be disappointed about individual losses, that isn't even what this conversation is about.  You and zacker lamented the Baylor loss because of greater impact, he specifically mentioned the conference race.  I simply pointed out that the impact of the Baylor game with regards to the conference race is no more important than the OU game or any other random game KSU, KU, KU, Baylor, or ISU will lose.  Of course losing to Baylor or any other team is disappointing, ridiculous to think anyone believes otherwise.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 05:37:43 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

opportunity lost.  especially in reference to our play in the last 5 minutes of games. 

Opportunity for what?  To be 2 games out 1/3 of the way through the conference schedule?  Every team is going to have games they "should have won." Do they all get do-overs?  The Baylor means little to nothing to the big picture at this point.

i'm not asking for pixie dust or a time machine, simply saying that it's painful to watch a team w/ 6 players go to baylor and beat them when we had them with 5 minutes to go and couldn't close it out.  just kind of picked at an old wound.  if the big picture is winning the big 12, home losses have a lot to do with it.  but, i know, having expecations for this team is awful. and I could give two sh*ts about your "winning the big 12 is an unreasonable expectation for this team" so just save that.

lolwut?  If winning the conference is the talking point the KU loss was much more damaging.  Like I said a win against Baylor would have put us in 3rd place 2 games behind the conference leader, not exactly a prime position.  Now that we have the benefit of hindsight the OU loss was no more damaging than the Baylor loss.  Point is everyone loses teeth knashing over individual games here or there is pretty pointless.

Come on, that's part of bring a fan for 90% of fans. And I'm sure zacker is thinking had we beat BU its likely we win at OU too, but that's speculation. Both were frustrating losses and I have no problem with zacker or anyone being disappointed with either one.

So because 90% of fans do it that makes it okay?  There are many things that 90% of sports fans do/think that are irrational.  And stop changing the conversation, no one said you shouldn't be disappointed about individual losses, that isn't even what this conversation is about.  You and zacker lamented the Baylor loss because of greater impact, he specifically mentioned the conference race.  I simply pointed out that the impact of the Baylor game with regards to the conference race is no more important than the OU game or any other random game KSU, KU, KU, Baylor, or ISU will lose.  Of course losing to Baylor or any other team is disappointing, ridiculous to think anyone believes otherwise.

I think its fair to say that home losses are always more disappointing and have great impact on conference standings overall and not just for the league champ.

Besides, zacker's original post simply said to me that today's game made that loss more disappointing for the moment.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: MakeItRain on January 21, 2012, 05:42:48 PM
In that perspective yes home losses are more important, but that game can be made up.  Having that as a prevalent thought flowing a road win is ridiculous but quintessentially 'zacker.  Is your cynicism growing, _FAN?
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kougar24 on January 21, 2012, 06:19:28 PM
I know OSU is not good this year, but it has been so long that a win in Stillwater makes me feel really happy. 

Yep.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: gatoveintisiete on January 21, 2012, 06:36:40 PM
To win the big 12 you can't really have more than 2 or 3 losses and have a chance. At ku is an extremely probable loss, so that gives you 1 or 2 more out of mux2 bux2, kux1 more, at osu, at isu and any other jaw dropping fuckups you might have so if you think it isn't absolutely crushing anytime you give away a game you should have won, you are wrong.  This team is capable of beating anyone on the schedule anywhere, anytime.  Granted
winning the conference is not likely, but it is what I fantasize about and that dream ended against Baylor.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 06:38:51 PM
In that perspective yes home losses are more important, but that game can be made up.  Having that as a prevalent thought flowing a road win is ridiculous but quintessentially 'zacker.  Is your cynicism growing, _FAN?

I wouldn't say cynical, but my BBS persona has become a bit more reactionary I suppose. Probably have been getting caught up in expectations a bit too much.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: SwiftCat on January 21, 2012, 06:41:07 PM
In that perspective yes home losses are more important, but that game can be made up.  Having that as a prevalent thought flowing a road win is ridiculous but quintessentially 'zacker.  Is your cynicism growing, _FAN?

I wouldn't say cynical, but my BBS persona has become a bit more reactionary I suppose. Probably have been getting caught up in expectations a bit too much.

Don't let him do this to you _FAN. You can be whoever you want. You don't owe MIR anything.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Cire on January 21, 2012, 06:44:10 PM
I don't care who it is, confy road wins are confy road wins.  don't take any for granted.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Fuktard on January 21, 2012, 06:45:43 PM
Hate to harp on it again after the UT game but FT's again are the culprit of this "bad" game for KSU....23-40 for us 25-29 for them.  We left 18 points at the line against UT, 17 today...while both teams we played shot lights out.  Would be interesting to see if 2 back to back games could have been worse.  Again if we hit 70-75% from the line and they hit 75% the game is a snoozer.  We can't continue to shoot FT's this bad...there is no way.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: salcat on January 21, 2012, 06:46:43 PM
I was a yearling when we last won at Stillwater, so it feels good.  :runaway:
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 06:52:46 PM
Don't let him do this to you _FAN. You can be whoever you want. You don't owe MIR anything.

It's alright, MIR is a good, knowledgable fan. Likes to push my BBS buttons a bit, but it's all good.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: kso_FAN on January 21, 2012, 06:56:40 PM
Hate to harp on it again after the UT game but FT's again are the culprit of this "bad" game for KSU....23-40 for us 25-29 for them.  We left 18 points at the line against UT, 17 today...while both teams we played shot lights out.  Would be interesting to see if 2 back to back games could have been worse.  Again if we hit 70-75% from the line and they hit 75% the game is a snoozer.  We can't continue to shoot FT's this bad...there is no way.

Not too worried, though the first half was bad. If compared to what we normally shoot, we left 3 points off the board with missed free throws which isn't neatly as bad as the UT game. This team will end up a 65% team, and now we are due for some good FT shooting games.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sys on January 21, 2012, 07:50:21 PM
those dboarding numbers are fantastic.  that's been a huge weakness, along with turnovers.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: nicname on January 21, 2012, 09:06:40 PM
The baylor loss is even more painful now.

Yeah, I thought that too.

Why?

Because I still think its a game we should've won. Seeing Missouri not just win, but really control the 2nd half, makes it a bit more frustrating. Nothing can be done about it now I guess.

Yeah,but MU is a match-up nightmare for a Zone team like BU.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Cire on January 21, 2012, 09:28:13 PM
OSU doesn't even try to oboard
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sys on January 21, 2012, 10:11:51 PM
OSU doesn't even try to oboard

ford, the new, 5 star-recruiting slth.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Cire on January 21, 2012, 10:14:17 PM
OSU doesn't even try to oboard

ford, the new, 5 star-recruiting slth.

yeah, hate him.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: catzacker on January 21, 2012, 10:31:37 PM
If Ford gets canned, would it be a realistic hope to think we could have a shot at smart, should they release him?  I want to know how much I will be able to use it against frank when he chooses baylor.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Pete on January 21, 2012, 10:32:27 PM
If Ford gets canned, would it be a realistic hope to think we could have a shot at smart, should they release him?  I want to know how much I will be able to use it against frank when he chooses baylor.

You will get to use it at a 7 level, IMO.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sys on January 21, 2012, 10:58:19 PM
yeah, hate him.

http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/012112aac.html
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Cire on January 21, 2012, 11:04:50 PM
yeah, hate him.

http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/012112aac.html

I think that kind of crap is more common with former player coaches.  irregardless he's an asshat.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: sys on January 21, 2012, 11:07:27 PM
I think that kind of crap is more common with former player coaches.  irregardless he's an asshat.

good insight.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: Cire on January 21, 2012, 11:08:11 PM
If Ford gets canned, would it be a realistic hope to think we could have a shot at smart, should they release him?  I want to know how much I will be able to use it against frank when he chooses baylor.

You will get to use it at a 7 level, IMO.

pretty sure he has a redic buyout.
Title: Re: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: michigancat on January 22, 2012, 01:57:00 AM
LOL at using score comparison to say Baylor was a "game we should have won" in the advanced stats thread. Take that junk to the townie friendly Jamar sucks at layups thread.
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: felix rex on January 22, 2012, 02:58:11 AM
yeah, hate him.

http://www.okstate.com/sports/m-baskbl/recaps/012112aac.html

I think that kind of crap is more common with former player coaches.  irregardless he's an asshat.

Frank:

Quote
"We fouled too much, but that is more Oklahoma State. They attacked us; they took it right at us and they didn't back up a step. They were as aggressive as I've seen them all year. They have been playing real well. I was worried about this game because Travis (Ford) has them playing the best basketball they've played all year and they attacked us and we fouled too much."
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: skycat on January 22, 2012, 01:57:12 PM
Ford sounds like a FP and a guy desperately clinging to his job.

Quote
Our kids mentioned (in the locker room) how much they appreciate the fans coming out. They didn't think there would be many people, and they really appreciated the fans.

Is he saying there were more people than expected, or about the same? Because if more, then wow. That place was half empty.

Quote
We're the youngest (team) in America, someone told me yesterday.

They're not even the youngest team in the Big 12. Texas and Texas Tech have them beat. http://statsheet.com/mcb/stattracker/experience/confs?conf=big-12

Quote
I just don't grasp why he doesn't get the respect he deserves out there on the court, and I'm sick of it. Everybody is just all over him.

"Come after me, I'm a man, I'm 42."
Title: Re: Defense (OSU adv stats)
Post by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2012, 07:26:39 PM

They're not even the youngest team in the Big 12. Texas and Texas Tech have them beat. http://statsheet.com/mcb/stattracker/experience/confs?conf=big-12


Mizzou has 7 seniors?? holy crap.