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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Jerome Tang Coaches Kansas State Basketball => Topic started by: CHONGS on January 16, 2012, 10:46:23 AM
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This is an officially authorized thread to criticize Frank Martin. Of course you can continue to post critical things in other threads, but this thread is to alleviate the perception that goEMAW.com does not allow negative things to be said about Frank.
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you can use swear words if you want
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This is an officially authorized thread to criticize Frank Martin. Of course you can continue to post critical things in other threads, but this thread is to alleviate the perception that goEMAW.com does not allow negative things to be said about Frank.
Reported.
Mods, lock/ban.
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As if any non-mod is going to risk falling for this. Nice try mind-spirit-chingon-squawks.
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mind-spirit-chingon-squawks.
:lol:
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OK, I'll start:
Sometimes, I'm worried Frank spoils us
:dubious:
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His suits fit poorly.
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"I'm a math teacher"
"Stats are for losers"
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"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"
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his analysis of how much money he makes leaves something to be desired
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"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"
"eff it, I'm just going to take it easy the entire summer of 2010"
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Recycled talking points.
If I hear one more sound byte containing "Kids haven't changed..." I will prob get a little upset.
Look, I know everyone does it. Maybe we are too close to this. I just feel like he should maybe throw a few more in the rotation.
That said, I do appreciate that he at least put Goodman in his place before spouting this one off again last week.
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Is tucking allowed in this thread in any form? If not please list forbidden forms.
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I wish he was better buds with Currie and the Animal
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Is tucking allowed in this thread in any form? If not please list forbidden forms.
everything is allowed. let it out.
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Too tolerant of germaphobes.
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"Society"
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Whenever I've gone up to him and told him good game or something, trying to be quick and not bother him, he has always been really friendly and occasionally started a conversation. He could maybe use that time more wisely :dunno:
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
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Before his first game as asst under Huggs, I saw him at Target getting a tie with his wife. She asked him if he had to wear purple. He said yes. I think he may be married to someone who does not like purple as much as I would like her to.
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That audio junction commercial is brutal.
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giving Watson 95's scholarship
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
this is the worst (since we didn't replace them with anyone worth a damn)
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Before his first game as asst under Huggs, I saw him at Target getting a tie with his wife. She asked him if he had to wear purple. He said yes. I think he may be married to someone who does not like purple as much as I would like her to.
She's eliminated plenty of purple material from her purple clothing this year. :love:
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
this is the worst (since we didn't replace them with anyone worth a damn)
Did he run off Nick? Dom and Fred were obvious.
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I rough ridin' hated when Wally had a cut on his eyebrow and Frank made him wear a white skin colored bandaid.
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
this is the worst (since we didn't replace them with anyone worth a damn)
Did he run off Nick? Dom and Fred were obvious.
yeah, how else would we have room for Jeremy Jones?
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1st year player excuses. If we didn't have such high turnover then we wouldn't be breaking in 7 new faces every year.
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"I'm a math teacher"
"Stats are for losers"
:curse:
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
this is the worst (since we didn't replace them with anyone worth a damn)
Did he run off Nick? Dom and Fred were obvious.
yeah, how else would we have room for Jeremy Jones?
Don't remember the recruiting timeline. At this point I'm willing to call JJ for Nick a wash.
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His lack of Technical Fouls this season. Especially the Baylor game, no self respecting coach would have let the stripes do what they did in the last 5 minutes (crowd be damned) without giving a ref good reason to T their ass up.
His twitter abilities are less than adequate
Playing Victor anytime, ever.
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His lack of Technical Fouls this season. Especially the Baylor game, no self respecting coach would have let the stripes do what they did in the last 5 minutes (crowd be damned) without giving a ref good reason to T their ass up.
Frank's hesitance to rip a ref's ass has always pissed me off
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His lack of Technical Fouls this season. Especially the Baylor game, no self respecting coach would have let the stripes do what they did in the last 5 minutes (crowd be damned) without giving a ref good reason to T their ass up.
His twitter abilities are less than adequate
Playing Victor anytime, ever.
unless it leads to Semi, if not :chainsaw: :curse: :chainsaw:
torenament :dubious:
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From what I have observed over the past couple of years,I would say he is horrible human being that knows less about basketball coaching than several people who frequent this board; and that is sad.
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Running off Nick Russell and Fred Brown and Dom Sutton were all incredibly stupid moves.
this is the worst (since we didn't replace them with anyone worth a damn)
Did he run off Nick? Dom and Fred were obvious.
yeah, how else would we have room for Jeremy Jones?
Don't remember the recruiting timeline. At this point I'm willing to call JJ for Nick a wash.
Based on playing time, I would call JJ for 95 a wash.
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His lack of Technical Fouls this season. Especially the Baylor game, no self respecting coach would have let the stripes do what they did in the last 5 minutes (crowd be damned) without giving a ref good reason to T their ass up.
Frank's hesitance to rip a ref's ass has always pissed me off
i know. it goes against his philosophy of the players being 100% accountable. he gives the refs who we are paying a complete pass most of the time. referees love him.
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Recruiting Nick Russell instead of Alec Burks.
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having our bigs defend their bigs on the perimeter like they are guards. i actually like it ok
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Recruiting Nick Russell instead of Alec Burks.
I'm sure it's what you meant, but he did recruit Alec Burks and actually preferred him to Nick. But Bzdelly beat him.
Still, a very valid criticism.
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i decline to criticize martin at this time. thanks for the opportunity though.
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I wish he valued Chris Babb-esque players more.
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I wish he valued Chris Babb-esque players more.
jones?
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I wish he valued Chris Babb-esque players more.
jones?
jones is nothing like babb. I'm more referring to guys who are great shooters but can do little else offensively. taking one or two of those guys wouldn't kill him.
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jones is nothing like babb. I'm more referring to guys who are great shooters but can do little else offensively. taking one or two of those guys wouldn't kill him.
they both can shoot, don't do much else, and have a least one gaping hole in their game. to me that's similar.
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jones is nothing like babb. I'm more referring to guys who are great shooters but can do little else offensively. taking one or two of those guys wouldn't kill him.
they both can shoot, don't do much else, and have a least one gaping hole in their game. to me that's similar.
Babb's height leads me to believe he could be more versatile on defense. I also think Babb is a better shooter, even though Jones' small sample size doesn't really support it.
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I think Frank drinks too much soda.
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Freddy Asprilla
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Babb's height leads me to believe he could be more versatile on defense. I also think Babb is a better shooter, even though Jones' small sample size doesn't really support it.
babb is supposed to be a really good defender. haven't seen enough myself to form an independent opinion. i think jones is a very good shooter (as is babb).
i meant that jones can't defend and and babb has no handle.
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players calling him frank
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Omfg free throw percentage.
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
Do they put the replays on free now or are they premium? I'll steal it and post it by the weekend if necessary.
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His inability to not get raped in the first 5 minutes at the Phog every year. Just once can we reserve falling behind by 18 until the 2nd half?
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
Do they put the replays on free now or are they premium? I'll steal it and post it by the weekend if necessary.
i think they're premium, but i paid into currie's little hd baby this season. i'm sure there are others that would like it to though.
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The fact that Bo Ryan owns him
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The fact that Bo Ryan owns him
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Our court design.
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Frank is going to be so mad when he sees this. :ohno:
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Losing to Scott Drew at home.
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The mango salsa at Taco Lucha.
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Poor Christmas yard ornament construction and placement.
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Losing to Scott Drew at home.
Drew is the only coach whom Frank has a losing record against at home :sdeek:
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Dunn! :shakingfist:
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The Bram's aisle width.
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Rodney really needs to bring back the baby 'fro.
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Not scheduling Xavier more.
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Not scheduling Xavier more.
To be fair we tried this year. X's fault they can't make finals of a shitty tourney.
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Recruiting
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Losing to Scott Drew at home.
Unforgivable: :facepalm: :curse:
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I don't think his method of checking people's temperature would be accepted at many hospitals.
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He cares TOO much.
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for selfish reasons i wish Frank cared more about winning and losing and less about player and life development.
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i hate our uniforms compared to the clemente senior year uniforms. why change when you have the best?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FNCAA%2BBasketball%2BTournament%2BWest%2BRegional%2BSalt%2B8Rwnfv3zNHnl.jpg&hash=e42934827944d989180300b89a4f6984a94b7175)
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Clam's post reminded me, Frank failing to stand up for EMAW and allowing wabash on the aerographic uni's
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Clam's post reminded me, Frank failing to stand up for EMAW and allowing wabash on the aerographic uni's
maybe one of the reasons he isn't better buds with the Animal?
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When I served at Carlos O' Kellys during the coaches show, all he would order was pretty much Dt. Pepsi. I worry about his health, poor guy loves him some caffeine.
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"you know"
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I feel like people aren't being as critical as they would be in an (Unofficial) thread.
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i hate our uniforms compared to the clemente senior year uniforms. why change when you have the best?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FNCAA%2BBasketball%2BTournament%2BWest%2BRegional%2BSalt%2B8Rwnfv3zNHnl.jpg&hash=e42934827944d989180300b89a4f6984a94b7175)
Those and the blacks were really good.
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i hate our uniforms compared to the clemente senior year uniforms. why change when you have the best?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww2.pictures.zimbio.com%2Fgi%2FNCAA%2BBasketball%2BTournament%2BWest%2BRegional%2BSalt%2B8Rwnfv3zNHnl.jpg&hash=e42934827944d989180300b89a4f6984a94b7175)
Those and the blacks were really good.
if by "really good" you mean the best uniforms in the history of collegiate athletics, then we agree.
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the blacks were so good that JMart used them as pajamas. FACT
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20 years from now, those 2009 whites will be our two tone lavenders.
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I like those whites, but the greys are still the best uniforms the history of K-State uniforms. JMHO.
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Yeah, the greys still reign supreme. Also, eff Frank for almost giving away this game.
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the grays, to me, were a flash in the pan. i actually don't like them too much anymore.
the 2009 black, then white, then purples were the best we've ever had. this isn't up for a debate.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleacherreport.net%2Fimages_root%2Fslides%2Fphotos%2F000%2F742%2F459%2F80327003_display_image.jpg%3F1298389492&hash=fa2049de5bb592e3e3acc86da03f321334805b54)
these are my GOAT. Greys are a close 2nd, imo.
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Yeah, the greys still reign supreme. Also, eff Frank for almost giving away this game.
Yep, Frank needs to work on his free throw offense and defense a lot this week.
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the grays, to me, were a flash in the pan. i actually don't like them too much anymore.
the 2009 black, then white, then purples were the best we've ever had. this isn't up for a debate.
the grays were made for Pullen to wear. they were like an extension of his soul - he looked so sexy in them. now that he's gone (and Wally :cry:) we lost our 2 best looking gray wearing players.
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ya that's probably true, the grey's were more for pullen than any other player.
seems like the material of the new uniforms is shittier, it's like they're replica jersey's you'd buy on eastbay instead of the thick, well made material.
i don't like the shorts either.
all of this crap should probably go in the assaley thread or lamont, but maybe it was frank's call? if so, FYF
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look at us, bitching about which of our 12 amazing jerseys are the most elite :love:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleacherreport.net%2Fimages_root%2Fslides%2Fphotos%2F000%2F742%2F459%2F80327003_display_image.jpg%3F1298389492&hash=fa2049de5bb592e3e3acc86da03f321334805b54)
these are my GOAT. Greys are a close 2nd, imo.
The blacks will always be my favorite of all time for that night specifically.
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The whole Clemente set was GOAT. Add in a gray version and make the powercat patch less patchy. :love:
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleacherreport.net%2Fimages_root%2Fslides%2Fphotos%2F000%2F742%2F459%2F80327003_display_image.jpg%3F1298389492&hash=fa2049de5bb592e3e3acc86da03f321334805b54)
these are my GOAT. Greys are a close 2nd, imo.
The blacks will always be my favorite of all time for that night specifically.
houcat or anyone else have a torrent available for this game?
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The Frank Criticisms thread has turned into everybody swimming around in a sea of great things that Frank brought us. :thumbs:
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The Frank Criticisms thread has turned into everybody swimming around in a sea of great things that Frank brought us. :thumbs:
Wow, what were the odds of that?
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thoughts on the Catcorn since Frank showed up on campus?
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When asked how big a blow his loss is, Martin replied that it is irrelevant, citing that the team won without him against Texas on Wednesday night.
I think this goes here
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Wait, is that about Watson?
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Wait, is that about Watson?
Nope, Vic taking JO's minutes.
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More Nino, less Vic. Please. :dunno:
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More Nino, less Vic. Please. :dunno:
Unless things have changed, I don't think Nino will be available for a few weeks or else he'd probably be getting some good minutes.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleacherreport.net%2Fimages_root%2Fslides%2Fphotos%2F000%2F742%2F459%2F80327003_display_image.jpg%3F1298389492&hash=fa2049de5bb592e3e3acc86da03f321334805b54)
these are my GOAT. Greys are a close 2nd, imo.
Are they dick bumping in this pic ?? Has KSU done away with chest bumping and gone straight to dick bumping ?? If so, that would be my one criticism of your coah; dick bumping Frank ?? Seriously ?? Kinda gay.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.bleacherreport.net%2Fimages_root%2Fslides%2Fphotos%2F000%2F742%2F459%2F80327003_display_image.jpg%3F1298389492&hash=fa2049de5bb592e3e3acc86da03f321334805b54)
these are my GOAT. Greys are a close 2nd, imo.
Are they dick bumping in this pic ?? Has KSU done away with chest bumping and gone straight to dick bumping ?? If so, that would be my one criticism of your coah; dick bumping Frank ?? Seriously ?? Kinda gay.
It's called a downstairs bump, MIG.
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dickflopping towards each other.
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
Do they put the replays on free now or are they premium? I'll steal it and post it by the weekend if necessary.
i think they're premium, but i paid into currie's little hd baby this season. i'm sure there are others that would like it to though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHS5aLGx8MI&feature=youtu.be
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
Do they put the replays on free now or are they premium? I'll steal it and post it by the weekend if necessary.
i think they're premium, but i paid into currie's little hd baby this season. i'm sure there are others that would like it to though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHS5aLGx8MI&feature=youtu.be
homeworks
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Frank math teacher'd the crap out of a guy asking about Angel on the radio show 20 minutes ago.
looking forward to this. i love his math teacher stuff.
Do they put the replays on free now or are they premium? I'll steal it and post it by the weekend if necessary.
i think they're premium, but i paid into currie's little hd baby this season. i'm sure there are others that would like it to though.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHS5aLGx8MI&feature=youtu.be
homeworks
Not an English teacher...
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Forcing the team to lose 3 games at the start of the season so they will realize how bad they suck and be forced to run off 14 straight...
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Frank says hey... (http://www.themercury.com/k-statesports/article.aspx?articleId=742d6f82d32344dcb773a15c160a412f)
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probably already mentioned, but.....
torn ament.
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Lon Kruger is the new Tad Boyle? :surprised:
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
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getting swept by a shitty borderline ncaa/nit big 12 team becoming the new norm
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getting swept by a shitty borderline ncaa/nit big 12 team becoming the new norm
OU is comfortably in the NIT, and so are we.
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If Frank is going to recruit juco players, he needs to do it in the fall when there's talent availablel and not just picking up the slag in April.
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Going 1-4 against former K-State coaches in the past two years.
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
That's why I didn't put it in the "things I am furious about" thread.
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
That's why I didn't put it in the "things I am furious about" thread.
We did draw up a great play to get the ball in JO's hands 20 feet from the basket there at the end.
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
That's why I didn't put it in the "things I am furious about" thread.
We did draw up a great play to get the ball in JO's hands 20 feet from the basket there at the end.
This is what inspired my post. That and OU drawing up a score after every timeout.
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
That's why I didn't put it in the "things I am furious about" thread.
We did draw up a great play to get the ball in JO's hands 20 feet from the basket there at the end.
Yeah, but to be fair it worked out and we did get an open 3 to tie for our best player.
But loses like last night, which are all too regular, is by far number 1 on my list. Roster management/constant attrition is number 2.
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No worse inbounds plays in America, or anywhere else.
A lot to be furious about, this isn't one of them IMO
That's why I didn't put it in the "things I am furious about" thread.
We did draw up a great play to get the ball in JO's hands 20 feet from the basket there at the end.
Yeah, but to be fair it worked out and we did get an open 3 to tie for our best player.
But loses like last night, which are all too regular, is by far number 1 on my list. Roster management/constant attrition is number 2.
#2 causes #1
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
I don't disagree with that philosophy, but we got about as good a look got McGruds as we could have asked for.
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
I don't disagree with that philosophy, but we got about as good a look got McGruds as we could have asked for.
While I do not disagree. I've never seen Rodney shoot or make a three that was beyond the minimum for 3pt range. I'm not sure what correlation this has to anything or if this is even irregular for 3pt shooters in general.
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
I don't disagree with that philosophy, but we got about as good a look got McGruds as we could have asked for.
That one didn't have the TO. The TO led to the JO foul.
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
this. doesn't trust the pg's to get it to rod? Or just stupid over coaching.
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calling a timeout was stupid. come down and pop off your 3. much higher % play than letting ou's coaches tell everyone to foul, exchange fts, and then (fortunately) get off a 3 in 5 seconds.
this. doesn't trust the pg's to get it to rod? Or just stupid over coaching.
weird because frank didn't call a time out versus west virginia
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I can't believe this thread hasn't gotten all extra serious and meltdowny after last game.
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
Nothing worse than getting back-doored repeatedly. :sdeek:
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
doesn't it make more sense to play sound assignment defense than to overplay passing lanes. I'm just saying the success rate of tipping a pass or intercepting it is pretty slim. But that opens up a back door cut every time for an easy basket every time. i think he cares about it but can't fathom not being an attacking in your face defense.
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I was really pissed about all the backdoors but I was over it before this year started. It's just the way we're going to continue to play defense so it's just something we'll have to live with happening to us. Nothing we can do about it.
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
doesn't it make more sense to play sound assignment defense than to overplay passing lanes. I'm just saying the success rate of tipping a pass or intercepting it is pretty slim. But that opens up a back door cut every time for an easy basket every time. i think he cares about it but can't fathom not being an attacking in your face defense.
We give up maybe 2 to 3 back doors a game because of the way we play defense. But we also force 15-20 turnovers. I think the good outweighs the bad, and it has every season Frank has been here.
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I was really pissed about all the backdoors but I was over it before this year started. It's just the way we're going to continue to play defense so it's just something we'll have to live with happening to us. Nothing we can do about it.
than we'll also have to live with being a bottom half team.
i used to love frank but there are so many things that drive me up the wall when watching this team that i'm done with this little charade. Delonte leaving was the worst thing that ever happened to this team.
they can't hit free throws, they can't hit open shots, they play scared, the "offense" is a joke, the "defense" is a worse joke. :flush: :bang:
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I was really pissed about all the backdoors but I was over it before this year started. It's just the way we're going to continue to play defense so it's just something we'll have to live with happening to us. Nothing we can do about it.
than we'll also have to live with being a bottom half team.
i used to love frank but there are so many things that drive me up the wall when watching this team that i'm done with this little charade. Delonte leaving was the worst thing that ever happened to this team. they can't hit free throws, they can't hit open shots, they play scared, the "offense" is a joke, the "defense" is a worse joke. :flush: :bang:
:lol:
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I was really pissed about all the backdoors but I was over it before this year started. It's just the way we're going to continue to play defense so it's just something we'll have to live with happening to us. Nothing we can do about it.
than we'll also have to live with being a bottom half team.
i used to love frank but there are so many things that drive me up the wall when watching this team that i'm done with this little charade. Delonte leaving was the worst thing that ever happened to this team.
they can't hit free throws, they can't hit open shots, they play scared, the "offense" is a joke, the "defense" is a worse joke. :flush: :bang:
I've learned that it is pointless to get upset about the backdoors, there are so many other things that make a much bigger difference in the game. Like _Fan said, the good outweighs the bad in this deal. I mean we probably throw it directly to the opposing team with our guards 5-6 times a game at least, now THAT is something to get angry about :curse:
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
doesn't it make more sense to play sound assignment defense than to overplay passing lanes. I'm just saying the success rate of tipping a pass or intercepting it is pretty slim. But that opens up a back door cut every time for an easy basket every time. i think he cares about it but can't fathom not being an attacking in your face defense.
you're 100% wrong. read _Fanalysis
http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
doesn't it make more sense to play sound assignment defense than to overplay passing lanes. I'm just saying the success rate of tipping a pass or intercepting it is pretty slim. But that opens up a back door cut every time for an easy basket every time. i think he cares about it but can't fathom not being an attacking in your face defense.
you're 100% wrong. read _Fanalysis
http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786
I don't think it will make a difference.
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So on ISU's posession right before the end of the first half, Frank switches to zone. That looked awfully familiar..........like the end of the OU game. If you can't beat em, copy them? :dunno:
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Inability to address getting back-doored repeatedly? :dunno:
It's part of the defense. Overplay the passing lanes. It's going to happen and he doesn't care.
he cares
doesn't it make more sense to play sound assignment defense than to overplay passing lanes. I'm just saying the success rate of tipping a pass or intercepting it is pretty slim. But that opens up a back door cut every time for an easy basket every time. i think he cares about it but can't fathom not being an attacking in your face defense.
you're 100% wrong. read _Fanalysis
http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=1786
I don't think it will make a difference.
I just read your analysis on Franks defense, then I went to statsheet and looked through our schedules in the martin era and something stood out to me. While your argument for our statistics with this strategy makes sense as a season overview, it is not really very representative of how basketball really works. For example the large body of our schedules are made up of teams that are less talented than us that we could beat with a lot of different strategies, but Franks works especially well against them because they are not solid with the ball and don't have the ability to break us down with penetration. That leaves the games that in my mind really matter, the games against equal or more talent and sometimes just one or two dynamic offensive players. I would love to see our defensive numbers against teams with at least one dynamic threat off the dribble. Examples of players like this would be Jimmer, colorado dudes, pierre jackson, ole miss guards, james anderson, royce, kyrie irving, wva jones/ bryant, the list goes on. It would be really easy to say that those guys are nba talent and of course you will lose more than your share to them, but my point is there are just guys you can't pressure and contain one on one, and these are the guys that torch us every time. If Frank wants to play his style against everyone else I think that's great, but to not have a different strategy for the guys no one on our team can guard is just :bang: Thoughts and hopefully stats?
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I just read your analysis on Franks defense, then I went to statsheet and looked through our schedules in the martin era and something stood out to me. While your argument for our statistics with this strategy makes sense as a season overview, it is not really very representative of how basketball really works. For example the large body of our schedules are made up of teams that are less talented than us that we could beat with a lot of different strategies, but Franks works especially well against them because they are not solid with the ball and don't have the ability to break us down with penetration. That leaves the games that in my mind really matter, the games against equal or more talent and sometimes just one or two dynamic offensive players. I would love to see our defensive numbers against teams with at least one dynamic threat off the dribble. Examples of players like this would be Jimmer, colorado dudes, pierre jackson, ole miss guards, james anderson, royce, kyrie irving, wva jones/ bryant, the list goes on. It would be really easy to say that those guys are nba talent and of course you will lose more than your share to them, but my point is there are just guys you can't pressure and contain one on one, and these are the guys that torch us every time. If Frank wants to play his style against everyone else I think that's great, but to not have a different strategy for the guys no one on our team can guard is just :bang: Thoughts and hopefully stats?
Frank isn't likely to change his philosophy on defense, and I do have some stats for you. Here is a breakdown of Frank's teams in his career. It would seem that his philosophy is fairly sound because starting with the Top 50 our offensive efficiency is better than our defensive efficiency. IMHO that's pretty good, there aren't very many teams that are going to be really good against Top 25 or Top 10.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FFrankEfficienty.png&hash=10eebe08a126ca208a4fd9bb014e05629fea6801)
I understand being down on Frank, K-State basketball, players, whatever at this point. The last few weeks have been frustrating, but even in points of frustration, you've got to let things play out. At this point I think this is probably a .500 Big 12 team that will sit on the bubble and go to the NIT. However, I'm not even in the ball park for Frank being on the hot seat or anything like that. He's done enough so far in his career that IMHO we can be patient.
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I just read your analysis on Franks defense, then I went to statsheet and looked through our schedules in the martin era and something stood out to me. While your argument for our statistics with this strategy makes sense as a season overview, it is not really very representative of how basketball really works. For example the large body of our schedules are made up of teams that are less talented than us that we could beat with a lot of different strategies, but Franks works especially well against them because they are not solid with the ball and don't have the ability to break us down with penetration. That leaves the games that in my mind really matter, the games against equal or more talent and sometimes just one or two dynamic offensive players. I would love to see our defensive numbers against teams with at least one dynamic threat off the dribble. Examples of players like this would be Jimmer, colorado dudes, pierre jackson, ole miss guards, james anderson, royce, kyrie irving, wva jones/ bryant, the list goes on. It would be really easy to say that those guys are nba talent and of course you will lose more than your share to them, but my point is there are just guys you can't pressure and contain one on one, and these are the guys that torch us every time. If Frank wants to play his style against everyone else I think that's great, but to not have a different strategy for the guys no one on our team can guard is just :bang: Thoughts and hopefully stats?
Frank isn't likely to change his philosophy on defense, and I do have some stats for you. Here is a breakdown of Frank's teams in his career. It would seem that his philosophy is fairly sound because starting with the Top 50 our offensive efficiency is better than our defensive efficiency. IMHO that's pretty good, there aren't very many teams that are going to be really good against Top 25 or Top 10.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2FgoEMAW.com%2Fblog%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F02%2FFrankEfficienty.png&hash=10eebe08a126ca208a4fd9bb014e05629fea6801)
I understand being down on Frank, K-State basketball, players, whatever at this point. The last few weeks have been frustrating, but even in points of frustration, you've got to let things play out. At this point I think this is probably a .500 Big 12 team that will sit on the bubble and go to the NIT. However, I'm not even in the ball park for Frank being on the hot seat or anything like that. He's done enough so far in his career that IMHO we can be patient.
First let me say that I am not down on Frank or the team. Could you address these questions?
1. Do you see a correllation between getting abused off the dribble (which creates points in the paint, kickouts for open 3s, FTR for the other team, and foul trouble for us) and us getting beat ?
2. Why would changing approaches constantly throughout the game to keep a Royce White off balance be a bad thing?
3. Frank says he doesn't like teams to feel comfortable, so when teams find something as basic as a one on one missmatch, why would we let them get comfortable exploiting it endlessly?
I love Frank and would be happy with him if he never changed, but I don't think you can point to very many championship coaches that when faced with a situation where they were overmatched partially or totally took the attitude of eff it, this is what we do, it's never worked before, but today we are going to play even harder and execute even better.
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First let me say that I am not down on Frank or the team. Could you address these questions?
1. Do you see a correllation between getting abused off the dribble (which creates points in the paint, kickouts for open 3s, FTR for the other team, and foul trouble for us) and us getting beat ?
2. Why would changing approaches constantly throughout the game to keep a Royce White off balance be a bad thing?
3. Frank says he doesn't like teams to feel comfortable, so when teams find something as basic as a one on one missmatch, why would we let them get comfortable exploiting it endlessly?
I love Frank and would be happy with him if he never changed, but I don't think you can point to very many championship coaches that when faced with a situation where they were overmatched partially or totally took the attitude of eff it, this is what we do, it's never worked before, but today we are going to play even harder and execute even better.
1. Yes. When we don't get teams sped up and create turnovers or tough shots, we get beat more often than not. Last night's first half compared to the second half would be a good example, though we never really turned ISU over much in either half. The first half we made it tough enough that ISU had less than 1.0 points per possession, you are going to win most games doing that. But in the 2nd they had nearly 1.4, you aren't going to wins those. A lot of that was do to the difference in perimeter defense from half to half.
2. It wouldn't, but this is something Frank will have to learn or adjust in his philosophy. He really doesn't run different styles of man, right now his only change up is going zone once in a while. Even a guy like Self has shown he'll change up more than most, like going triangle and 2 agaisnt us in the past couple of years. But that's probably something that took him time to get to, and of course he has really good players. But yeah, Frank is probably going to have to add another change up to his pressure man philosophy and I don't think he's gotten there yet.
3. Yeah. I think he was afraid of his usual change up (zone) because of ISU's shooters. And like I said, besides minor tweaks of where we force the ball or let people catch the ball there isn't much we can do in our man defense. I suppose Frank having us pick up White at half court was a tweak too for the bigs. But I would've certainly done something different, especially in the last possession. If you are playing for OT (which Frank obviously was without the foul) you have to change. Once White when to half court to hold the ball, I probably would've gone zone so you could double him and not let him drive for example. Or stay man, and send a double team from whoever was guarding ISU's worse offense threat on the floor. Frank took a shot staying with his gameplan for the game and as it did often in the 2nd half it didn't work.
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First let me say that I am not down on Frank or the team. Could you address these questions?
1. Do you see a correllation between getting abused off the dribble (which creates points in the paint, kickouts for open 3s, FTR for the other team, and foul trouble for us) and us getting beat ?
2. Why would changing approaches constantly throughout the game to keep a Royce White off balance be a bad thing?
3. Frank says he doesn't like teams to feel comfortable, so when teams find something as basic as a one on one missmatch, why would we let them get comfortable exploiting it endlessly?
I love Frank and would be happy with him if he never changed, but I don't think you can point to very many championship coaches that when faced with a situation where they were overmatched partially or totally took the attitude of eff it, this is what we do, it's never worked before, but today we are going to play even harder and execute even better.
1. Yes. When we don't get teams sped up and create turnovers or tough shots, we get beat more often than not. Last night's first half compared to the second half would be a good example, though we never really turned ISU over much in either half. The first half we made it tough enough that ISU had less than 1.0 points per possession, you are going to win most games doing that. But in the 2nd they had nearly 1.4, you aren't going to wins those. A lot of that was do to the difference in perimeter defense from half to half.
2. It wouldn't, but this is something Frank will have to learn or adjust in his philosophy. He really doesn't run different styles of man, right now his only change up is going zone once in a while. Even a guy like Self has shown he'll change up more than most, like going triangle and 2 agaisnt us in the past couple of years. But that's probably something that took him time to get to, and of course he has really good players. But yeah, Frank is probably going to have to add another change up to his pressure man philosophy and I don't think he's gotten there yet.
3. Yeah. I think he was afraid of his usual change up (zone) because of ISU's shooters. And like I said, besides minor tweaks of where we force the ball or let people catch the ball there isn't much we can do in our man defense. I suppose Frank having us pick up White at half court was a tweak too for the bigs. But I would've certainly done something different, especially in the last possession. If you are playing for OT (which Frank obviously was without the foul) you have to change. Once White when to half court to hold the ball, I probably would've gone zone so you could double him and not let him drive for example. Or stay man, and send a double team from whoever was guarding ISU's worse offense threat on the floor. Frank took a shot staying with his gameplan for the game and as it did often in the 2nd half it didn't work.
Ok Agreed, this mystery is solved, Frank will win but probably not win big until he matures as a strategerist.
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we do worse against the best teams?!?!? :horrorsurprise:
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we do worse against the best teams?!?!? :horrorsurprise:
Yeah. Funny how that works.
Still, I stand by my comments that there are things Frank can learn defensively, but he's still a young coach at this level. I still think overall he's really good, even after the past few weeks.
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we do worse against the best teams?!?!? :horrorsurprise:
Yeah. Funny how that works.
Still, I stand by my comments that there are things Frank can learn defensively, but he's still a young coach at this level. I still think overall he's really good, even after the past few weeks.
He's made plenty of defensive adjustments during games, also. Every coach can get better. I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.
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I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.
True. Very true.
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Heh.
I’m puzzled at the reaction to the closing moments of the Missouri/Texas game on Monday night, a game in which the Tigers won 67-66. For my taste, Missouri head coach Frank Haith is getting a little too much credit for the events of the final possession. For example, the reaction on twitter has almost universally praised Haith for throwing a zone defense at Texas after the Longhorns’ timeout with 27 seconds remaining. See also, this blurb from Andy Katz.
I suppose Haith deserves credit for throwing a zone at Texas out of the timeout prior to the game-deciding possession. But I’m really not sure. I mean, I have few reasons to make such a judgment, other than to say, “Missouri won, therefore Haith is brilliant!” However, unless Rick Barnes is lying, this move was anticipated. And besides, it’s not like it’s rare for a coach to change defenses out of a timeout late in the game.
Sure, the Longhorns’ offense was disrupted by the move, but then again, they ended up getting a pretty decent shot from Myck Kabongo, one on which he appeared to get fouled. Now, officials are not necessarily going to call fouls on the final possession using the same standard as the rest of the game, but I hope we can agree that Haith had no control over whether the whistle was blown is that situation. And I have a hard time heaping praise on a person based on an outcome that was out of the person’s control.
Had a foul been called and Texas gone on to win the game, I think it’s safe to say that few people would be praising Haith or calling for him to win coach of the year based on his final-possession strategy. In fact, I’m guessing they’d be talking about blowing a ten-point lead in the closing minutes and how Missouri is reeling, and perhaps that Haith has a less-than-stellar track record in close games during his career. That, too, would have been an overreaction. And just to be clear, the difference between these two extremes is an event that Haith had no influence on.
There’s no denying that Frank Haith has done a great job this season. There are few teams in the country better than Missouri right now, and I’d say that whether the Tigers had won or lost in Austin. Mizzou was primed to be very good, but there’s something to be said for not screwing that up as a new coach. Especially when the hire had little support among the fan base. However, let’s not anoint Frank Haith as the basketball version of Bill Belichick. Perhaps his move at the end of game was brilliant, but the outcome of the game was also influenced by random events out of Haith’s control. Giving him credit for the switch to zone is fine, but praising him for the outcome of the game is a bit much.
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we do worse against the best teams?!?!? :horrorsurprise:
Yeah. Funny how that works.
Still, I stand by my comments that there are things Frank can learn defensively, but he's still a young coach at this level. I still think overall he's really good, even after the past few weeks.
He's made plenty of defensive adjustments during games, also. Every coach can get better. I just think based on his track record defense should be at the bottom of list of complaints.
I dissagree, the only thing Frank can do is try to figure out how to win the games he loses right? OK then find the common denominator in the losses. Granted we are what we are and he has to work within the possible, but if we are playing a team with 4 average joes and Michael Jordan you can't allow the other team to isolate Mj one on one all night, you already know what the outcome of that will be. Last night, I would have mixed defenses from our standard man, to tiangle and two and others, to not let isu get in any rythym. It almost appeared last night that Royce was getting winded from driving and dunking, so much that he passed up the ball sometimes to catch his breath, on those possesions they gave it to chowder or Allen to drive and draw fouls. Iowa State is good but not great, we can consistently beat teams like that with some defensive tweaks.
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there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers. And your strategy ideas for last night are terrible.
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there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers. And your strategy ideas for last night are terrible.
Fan and I are agreed on the majority of this, you don't have to be on the right side of history if you don't want to.
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there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers.
it's definitely turnovers.
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there isn't a common denominator to any of the losses. The closest is probably turnovers.
it's definitely turnovers.
I'm talking about over his entire career. It's mostly turnovers this year, but I don't think that's the case in prior years. Too lazy to look, though.
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I think sometimes he gets his eye sockets too big. Very unattractive.
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I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?
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he throws out a 3-2 and does some trapping but it sucks.
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I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?
That's a fair question. I think most coaches have one or two aspects of their program that they consider who they are and what they are about, and based on Frank's career I would guess his are pressure man defense and rebounding. And when those things have been the consistent strengths of his program, its unlikely he's going to change and he's going to put his career on the line based on those things. The other things are up for change, and obviously "his" offense was the first thing he was willing to make a major overhaul with. I highly doubt his defense will ever change, no matter where he ends up, unless things start going really south with the program. The strength of this team (by far) is still defense, the biggest problem with this team is offense right now.
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Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.
Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.
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Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.
Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.
I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively. I see that we change how we guard ball screens. And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from). But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball. Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything. I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?
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I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?
We could, but I don't think we ever will.
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Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.
Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.
I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively. I see that we change how we guard ball screens. And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from). But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball. Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything. I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?
If we get beat in transition a couple times should he just send no one to the offensive glass and settle for one shot per possession?
I can see Frank telling them to not pressure the ball and the result would be like when Syracuse played man-to-man against LeMoyne. I don't think it would be a good idea at all. Perimeter fouls or other mistakes due to "pressuring the ball" haven't been a significant problem, with Angel in conference play being the obvious exception.
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Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.
Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.
I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively. I see that we change how we guard ball screens. And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from). But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball. Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything. I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?
can't remember when but he's done it. i specifically remember him motioning tay to stay at a certain level and not pick up the dribbler until they reached a certain point (top of key). i'm pretty sure that was at the end of a half or game :dunno:
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Frank has adjusted his defense during games - the average fan should be able to notice changes in how they defend ball screens during games, but there have been other changes as well. That said, I don't think he'll ever stop pressuring the perimeter as much as he does, just like he didn't stop crashing the offensive glass when he changed his offense.
Complaining about Frank's defense and/or wanting him to change it significantly is just stupid.
I'm not asking him to go to a 1-3-1 zone or make wholesale changes defensively. I see that we change how we guard ball screens. And it's clear that we have game plans on how we'll guard the perimeter (i.e. where help will come from). But for the most part, regardless of what happens, we pressure the ball. Like, regardless of fouls, regardless of whether our guards are getting abused...regardless of anything. I mean, if we're willing to change our offense, we can't say to Sprads or Angel "hey, back up a few feet"?
If we get beat in transition a couple times should he just send no one to the offensive glass and settle for one shot per possession?
I can see Frank telling them to not pressure the ball and the result would be like when Syracuse played man-to-man against LeMoyne. I don't think it would be a good idea at all. Perimeter fouls or other mistakes due to "pressuring the ball" haven't been a significant problem, with Angel in conference play being the obvious exception.
I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen. K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year.
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My biggest criticism is that he is not John Calipari.
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I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen. K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year.
Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print
Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?
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"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320320305
I wouldn't have minded us taking a harder run at Todd Mayo either.
It happens, I guess.
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"I am not going to offer Deangelo Harrison"
http://espn.go.com/ncb/recap?gameId=320320305
I wouldn't have minded us taking a harder run at Todd Mayo either.
It happens, I guess.
I mean Harrison said we were one of his leaders (along w/ aTm) in March. Then he blew up at Top of the Hill or something and it's like we didn't even try after that. It's absolutely infuriating without knowing how or why we quit trying. The fact that he went to St. John's and not some blue blood just pisses me off even more. Todd Mayo would have been nice, but so would Nick Russell.
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It's very frustrating, it's like Frank will cut off his nose(supposed lack of fit, JYCness) just to spite his face (winning games, which believe it or not, can be aided by players with offensive abilities and mentalities).
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I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen. K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year.
Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print
Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?
sure, but they didn't use it all year that year (08/09). The point is that Bill wasn't afriad to use something, something that has been categorized as a junk defense, to stop a less talented team.
And as for the zone, that, to me is an example of frank not being able to adjust. Having Dom up top of a 3-2 is far more effective than having Rodney. I dunno what the right answer is (probably why Jamar at the 3 was Frank’s dream? He’d be nice to have out there as a 3 w/ a combination of JO/Diaz/Gip at the 4/5. Could put Jamar out top of the 3-2) but when you don’t have the players to run something, you shouldn’t run it. Or you should find a way around your weaknesses.
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I watched KU go to a triangle and 2 to stop Clemente and Pullen. K-freaking-U, with infinitely more talent than we had and I don't believe they ever used that defense all year.
Self has been teaching the triangle and two for a long-ass time.
http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2001/mar/24/self_credits_williams/?print
Maybe Frank should be going zone more often?
sure, but they didn't use it all year that year (08/09). The point is that Bill wasn't afriad to use something, something that has been categorized as a junk defense, to stop a less talented team.
I don't get your point. It's something he always teaches, he used ten years ago, he used it the year prior and the year after, and I would guess he used it at some other point that season but you just didn't realize it. It's just another tool, like Frank's half court traps or full court pressure or zone. You can't teach EVERY POSSIBLE defense and expect to do well. (Note: having superior talent would make it easier)
but when you don’t have the players to run something, you shouldn’t run it. Or you should find a way around your weaknesses.
Yeah, I agree that he shouldn't run much zone. He should pressure the ball more.
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michigancat has gone full frankitetard on us :lol:
it's only january!!
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It's very frustrating, it's like Frank will cut off his nose(supposed lack of fit, JYCness) just to spite his face (winning games, which believe it or not, can be aided by players with offensive abilities and mentalities).
I think the JYC-ness can be taught much more easily than 3 point shooting. I know Frank likes guards to attack the rim, but Rodney NEVER did that before this season. I think attacking the rim can also be taught more easily than 3 point shooting. Sheesh.
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It's very frustrating, it's like Frank will cut off his nose(supposed lack of fit, JYCness) just to spite his face (winning games, which believe it or not, can be aided by players with offensive abilities and mentalities).
I think the JYC-ness can be taught much more easily than 3 point shooting. I know Frank likes guards to attack the rim, but Rodney NEVER did that before this season. I think attacking the rim can also be taught more easily than 3 point shooting. Sheesh.
How much/to what extent can you teach 3 PT shooting? :dunno:
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It's very frustrating, it's like Frank will cut off his nose(supposed lack of fit, JYCness) just to spite his face (winning games, which believe it or not, can be aided by players with offensive abilities and mentalities).
I think the JYC-ness can be taught much more easily than 3 point shooting. I know Frank likes guards to attack the rim, but Rodney NEVER did that before this season. I think attacking the rim can also be taught more easily than 3 point shooting. Sheesh.
How much/to what extent can you teach 3 PT shooting? :dunno:
You can tweak form, getting stronger helps (see Pullen), as does lots of practice. I think you'll see Angel's release get quicker and higher over the years.
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How much/to what extent can you teach 3 PT shooting? :dunno:
rustyksu & lance harris can improve a lot. with most other player/coach combos it's difficult.
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it's definitely turnovers.
I'm talking about over his entire career. It's mostly turnovers this year, but I don't think that's the case in prior years. Too lazy to look, though.
i just meant this year. didn't realize how expansive the conversation had become.
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I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?
That's a fair question. I think most coaches have one or two aspects of their program that they consider who they are and what they are about, and based on Frank's career I would guess his are pressure man defense and rebounding. And when those things have been the consistent strengths of his program, its unlikely he's going to change and he's going to put his career on the line based on those things. The other things are up for change, and obviously "his" offense was the first thing he was willing to make a major overhaul with. I highly doubt his defense will ever change, no matter where he ends up, unless things start going really south with the program. The strength of this team (by far) is still defense, the biggest problem with this team is offense right now.
What defines Franks teams are not pressure man and rebounding, they are defined by their willingness to play harder than the other team each night. You can give more effort with any strategy you chose.
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I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?
That's a fair question. I think most coaches have one or two aspects of their program that they consider who they are and what they are about, and based on Frank's career I would guess his are pressure man defense and rebounding. And when those things have been the consistent strengths of his program, its unlikely he's going to change and he's going to put his career on the line based on those things. The other things are up for change, and obviously "his" offense was the first thing he was willing to make a major overhaul with. I highly doubt his defense will ever change, no matter where he ends up, unless things start going really south with the program. The strength of this team (by far) is still defense, the biggest problem with this team is offense right now.
What defines Franks teams are not pressure man and rebounding, they are defined by their willingness to play harder than the other team each night. You can give more effort with any strategy you chose.
Yes, but I think they go together, at least in Frank's mind. You don't really think he's going to change his defensive philosophy do you?
Also, I think the weaknesses of Martin teams have been fairly clear.
1) Turnovers on offense.
2) Poor/inconsistent shooting.
3) Fouling too much.
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I’ll apologize if this complaint has already been filed, but why can Frank change/adjust offenses when it’s apparent that he’s not getting what he wants out of the one he’s running, but not change/adjust his defense when the same is apparent?
That's a fair question. I think most coaches have one or two aspects of their program that they consider who they are and what they are about, and based on Frank's career I would guess his are pressure man defense and rebounding. And when those things have been the consistent strengths of his program, its unlikely he's going to change and he's going to put his career on the line based on those things. The other things are up for change, and obviously "his" offense was the first thing he was willing to make a major overhaul with. I highly doubt his defense will ever change, no matter where he ends up, unless things start going really south with the program. The strength of this team (by far) is still defense, the biggest problem with this team is offense right now.
[/quote
What defines Franks teams are not pressure man and rebounding, they are defined by their willingness to play harder than the other team each night. You can give more effort with any strategy you chose.
Yes, but I think they go together, at least in Frank's mind. You don't really think he's going to change his defensive philosophy do you?
Also, I think the weaknesses of Martin teams have been fairly clear.
1) Turnovers on offense.
2) Poor/inconsistent shooting.
3) Fouling too much.
All I want addressed with the defense is the most basic thing, stop penetration to the rim. This would eliminate alot of fouling alone, but we also need to curtail the over agressive one on one hand-checking at half court.
I looked through the games on statsheet that we lost and turnovers historically have not been the problem, you have to remember that a stagnet offense that stands around passing on the perimeter that we have had in the past doesn't commit many turnovers but also doesn't create easy shots either to your point of poor shooting. When k-state struggles it is simply due to not being able to control an opposing offensive player, examples below
Games where we lost and got beat off the dribble all night, offensive turnover total to the right
08-09 Kentucky Meeks 16to
08-09 Ku Taylor, Collins 12to
09-10 Osu Anderson 16to
09-10 Ole miss White, Warren 11to
10-11 Wiscy Taylor 8to
10-11 Col Burks, Higgins 15,10,11to
10-11 Fla Walker, Boynton 9to
10-11 Duke Irving 21to
11-12 Isu White 12to
11-12 Baylor Jackson 20to
LOL at turnovertards, Stop the damn ball
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I'm tired of watching you sit pouting with your chin in your hand when your team is struggling instead of calling a timeout and settling them down. COACH dude please!
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team played too much 1v1 bb in the 2nd half.
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Criticisms of Frank . . .
. . . 1) illogical and overly emotional anger driven Substitution patterns
. . . 2) Man crushes on over-hyped latino players with marginal basketball IQ (Denis is the ONLY exception).
. . . 3) The way he rode Pullen's butt literally for 4 years while giving Angel a free pass for sucking.
. . . 4) The way he pimped himself for the Miami job. Disgusting.
. . . 5) He almost always places the blame on the players.
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Gets team to play hard and inspired in early season reaching Top 25 status with overachievers - stupid fans, like me, get excited only to be doused with cold reality during the conference season.
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Criticisms of Frank . . .
. . . 1) illogical and overly emotional anger driven Substitution patterns Yes
. . . 2) Man crushes on over-hyped latino players with marginal basketball IQ (Denis is the ONLY exception). :confused:
. . . 3) The way he rode Pullen's butt literally for 4 years while giving Angel a free pass for sucking. :confused:
. . . 4) The way he pimped himself for the Miami job. Disgusting. Yes
. . . 5) He almost always places the blame on the players. :jerk:
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I love frank when he angry i love him more. :bball: :ksu:
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I love frank when he angry i love him more. :bball: :ksu:
The Word
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I would like to use the official Frank Criticism Thread to criticize Frank for losing a lot to coaches who used to play for Big 8 / Big XII schools -- Bill Self, Tad Boyle, Fred Hoiberg, and Lon Kruger.
Also, how does he expect to win when he is wearing that horrible bow tie? Even if he is trying to cure AIDS by wearing it.
Other than that, I can't think of any criticisms to add to this thread.
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I'm sure this is tuck, but I hate seeing Frank doing his best Wooly impression on the sideline. The head down, rubbing the temples, shaking the head, staring off into space, etc. just make me sad. I want him with the sly smile or yelling at someone. Those other faces are not the faces of the Frank I love.
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No idea if this is true, but...
Brian Mull
? @BGMull
40 percent of scholarship college basketball players transfer by end of their sophomore year at original school. 2-in-5.
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No way. Maybe he meant 4%, or .4%.
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Guess maybe, if you include juco players?
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It likely isn't 40 but its a hell of a lot more than 4
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I'm sure this is tuck, but I hate seeing Frank doing his best Wooly impression on the sideline. The head down, rubbing the temples, shaking the head, staring off into space, etc. just make me sad. I want him with the sly smile or yelling at someone. Those other faces are not the faces of the Frank I love.
add - picking nose, waving index finger across face,
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http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/07/3474812/martins-wildcats-are-again-hitting.html
Good article. Frank admits everything I've posted in this thread. Props to me, I guess.
Long term goal is to be ready in March. Doesn't care in the slightest if games are lost early on.
That's fine. So long as we don't give a crap about conference championships.
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http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/07/3474812/martins-wildcats-are-again-hitting.html
Good article. Frank admits everything I've posted in this thread. Props to me, I guess.
Long term goal is to be ready in March. Doesn't care in the slightest if games are lost early on.
That's fine. So long as we don't give a crap about conference championships.
I'm glad we're going to the NCAA's more often than not, but this is why we'll never win the Big XII and why we'll lose to KU 2.5 times per season as long as Frank's the coach. There's just so many life lessons to be taught and Frank only gets 4 years to teach all of them...
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benching players that aren't doing what you want them to doesn't prevent you from winning the conference.
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benching players that aren't doing what you want them to doesn't prevent you from winning the conference.
Right... benching players for "Life Lessons" does.
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benching players that aren't doing what you want them to doesn't prevent you from winning the conference.
Right... benching players for "Life Lessons" does.
Let's be honest, all those benchings were for basketball reasons.
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benching players that aren't doing what you want them to doesn't prevent you from winning the conference.
Right... benching players for "Life Lessons" does.
Let's be honest, all those benchings were for basketball reasons.
I'm honestly under different impressions for most of these instances. But I'm only itk part of the time.
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http://www.kansascity.com/2012/03/07/3474812/martins-wildcats-are-again-hitting.html
Good article. Frank admits everything I've posted in this thread. Props to me, I guess.
Long term goal is to be ready in March. Doesn't care in the slightest if games are lost early on.
That's fine. So long as we don't give a crap about conference championships.
Was Frank's approach ever really a question?
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it's only (insert any month but march or april :fatty:) here
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Was Frank's approach ever really a question?
Yes. quite a bit of discussion about it, actually.
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"I worry about our economy, i worry about inflation, but i do not worry about Rodney McGruder"
Frank.
Liberty
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I think you are confusing this with the "Awesome things Frank says" thread.
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TOTALLY AWESOME!
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Gone completely rough ridin' brain dead today. What a rough ridin' moron today. I can't believe he's left the bumbling Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) out there this long.
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:(
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it's either one of two things:
1) doesn't recruit offensive talent
2) has created a system which discourages offensive talent from being allowed to "shine."
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it's either one of two things:
1) doesn't recruit offensive talent
2) has created a system which discourages offensive talent from being allowed to "shine."
He recruits offensive talent, just not at the level of a Syracuse or KU....yet.
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They're out there guys
McCollum was a late bloomer. He was offered a scholarship by Bowling Green and given a couple sniffs by MAC schools, but he went to Lehigh because he wanted a better education. Temple couldn't possibly have recruited him as a freshman/soph in high school, cause the kid was about 5'6" and not being recruited by anyone.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/player/evaluation/_/id/66908/cj-mccollum
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Gone completely rough ridin' brain dead today. What a rough ridin' moron today. I can't believe he's left the bumbling respect out there this long.
This figures, Frank was great today. Excellent plan to attack Syracuse.
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Gone completely rough ridin' brain dead today. What a rough ridin' moron today. I can't believe he's left the bumbling respect out there this long.
This figures, Frank was great today. Excellent plan to attack Syracuse.
Give me a break, get off your horse and recognize one, the timing of the post and two, the vast majority of college coaches would have yanked Gip for Diaz.
:jerk:
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Gone completely rough ridin' brain dead today. What a rough ridin' moron today. I can't believe he's left the bumbling respect out there this long.
This figures, Frank was great today. Excellent plan to attack Syracuse.
Give me a break, get off your horse and recognize one, the timing of the post and two, the vast majority of college coaches would have yanked Gip for Diaz.
:jerk:
You thinking Diaz was the answer is enough for me.
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You thinking Diaz was the answer is enough for me.
Funny, don't see that anywhere in my post. Care to elaborate?
The fact that I thought Frank should try an alternative option when option A is not working, at all, is revealing how?
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You thinking Diaz was the answer is enough for me.
Funny, don't see that anywhere in my post. Care to elaborate?
The fact that I thought Frank should try an alternative option when option A is not working, at all, is revealing how?
the vast majority of college coaches would have yanked Gip for Diaz
I assume this implies Diaz was the answer? :dunno:
Plus, he tried Diaz and it was obvious (painfully) that he wasn't the answer.
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You thinking Diaz was the answer is enough for me.
Funny, don't see that anywhere in my post. Care to elaborate?
The fact that I thought Frank should try an alternative option when option A is not working, at all, is revealing how?
the vast majority of college coaches would have yanked Gip for Diaz
I assume this implies Diaz was the answer? :dunno:
You thinking a logical move to an alternative option equates to one player being "the answer" is enough for me.
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Diaz has panicked on the court at times this season in a lot less pressure. I don't think putting Diaz on the court against that Syracuse zone in an NCAA game after getting very few minutes the last 5 games or so is a logical anything
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Diaz has panicked on the court at times this season in a lot less pressure. I don't think putting Diaz on the court against that Syracuse zone in an NCAA game after getting very few minutes the last 5 games or so is a logical anything
eff I don't care, just put someone else in. Diaz has shown bright spots plenty of times this year.
The great thing about basketball is you have MULTIPLE SUBSTITUTIONS. If Diaz or option C don't work, fine throw Gip back in there. But to simply let him keep struggling without trying other options was a coaching mistake.
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Some of you pick really weird things and times to get really upset.
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Some of you pick really weird things and times to get really upset.
I can't see how the NCAA tournament is a weird time to get upset.
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I do wish Diaz would of played more in the late part of the conference, I thought he had a nice thing going and was finding his role. I wish Frank would of given him Vic's minutes at the 4, might of helped today
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Could of sworn we did give Diaz a chance tonight
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Ummm.....
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Saw the username secret panda whispers and clicked on thread. Was not disappointed.
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Remember when Nino had a couple really good games? Yes, that happened. Then Frank put him away and never spoke of him again. I wanted more Nino.
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Remember when Nino had a couple really good games? Yes, that happened. Then Frank put him away and never spoke of him again. I wanted more Nino.
Did you also want him not to be hurt?
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he left us
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollthemaps.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2Fhe-left-us.jpg&hash=94da0ccfc52e0f18d65fb01cf62128f6e187c63d)
HE LEFT US
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he left us
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rollthemaps.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2011%2F12%2Fhe-left-us.jpg&hash=94da0ccfc52e0f18d65fb01cf62128f6e187c63d)
HE LEFT US
Oh my God, I've been thinking of this scene all day.
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:(
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Can we please un-stick this thread? It pisses me off.
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Can we please un-stick this thread? It pisses me off.
Omg do you think Frank read this thread and felt disloyalized?????
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Omg do you think Frank read this thread and felt disloyalized?????
You are insufferable. All of these Criticisms of Frank are a walk in the park compared with what we are going to have to deal with next season, and that pisses me off.