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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on March 06, 2010, 09:51:53 PM

Title: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 06, 2010, 09:51:53 PM
Amazing list from this loss.

Sr night against #11 team.

Terrible shooting; Jake/Denis struggles.

Pathetic effort on defense and rebounding.

Not managing to win in OT when ISU was without Brackins.

Feel free to add or discuss.

Been awhile since we had a loss this terrible.  OSU at least is a tournament team.  BU last year pretty terrible.  I suppose I'd have to go back to "turn out the lights" NU to match it though.  Awful.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on March 06, 2010, 09:56:55 PM


Not managing to win in OT when ISU was without Brackins.

cannot be stressed enough.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: iCat Pro on March 06, 2010, 09:57:47 PM
Worst part is the nosedive right before tournament time.  Not a good time to completely fall apart.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 06, 2010, 09:59:00 PM
Obviously I was overconfident with my podcast prediction, but I thought it was in the bag once we got to OT.  Unbelievable. 
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: steve dave on March 06, 2010, 10:00:37 PM
turn out the lights
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: slimz on March 06, 2010, 10:02:58 PM
Obviously I was overconfident with my podcast prediction, but I thought it was in the bag once we got to OT.  Unbelievable. 

Am I misremembering things, or did Frank barely sub for our "Top 5" during last 10 minutes of regulation and OT?

If so, then we gained nothing from ISU's lack of depth and foul trouble.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 06, 2010, 10:05:12 PM
No, he didn't.  I think he thought eventually his best players would make plays.  Honestly, I did too.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: yoga-like_abana on March 06, 2010, 10:07:14 PM
Back up the truck! Back it up!
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: slimz on March 06, 2010, 10:14:19 PM
Denis was fading away on a lot of his 3's tonight. Seem to really cut down on his accuracy.

Wonder if there was any hangover effect from KU, combined with a "if we show up, we win" mentality.

Thought one of the big keys for ISU was that they do have a couple of very talented players who were able to step up and answer/make plays at critical junctures to keep us from streaking.

We had at least 6-7 opportunities to take a lead late and I've the place explode, but could never make that one extra play.

Once again looked pretty bad running plays with time running out or after a time out to set up a play. Frank often acts like guys aren't doing what they're supposed to do on those plays. If so, why is this happening this late in the season?
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: KITNfury on March 06, 2010, 10:18:34 PM
Worst part is I lost my sexy. I mean, I pretty much convinced myself Elite 8, Sweet 16 minimum. I could see us get bounced second round, hell maybe first.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kcchiefdav on March 07, 2010, 08:16:33 AM
The worst part is that Frank is the terrible defense we've played the last couple games. We just aren't making stops once teams get into their half court offense. The word is out that we can be driven on. Last night there must have been at least 5 occasions (and at least one of those was overtime) where our guy guarding their guard who had the ball, had to switch on a screen situation, leaving our big to guard a faster ball handler so everyone backed off for the iso play and ball was easily driven to the lane where lay ups and fouls abounded. JFC
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: ChiComCat on March 07, 2010, 09:16:24 AM
I thought poor defense was prob the biggest thing.  There are a lot of games where we've shot poorly (though usually not for a whole game), but giving up this many points to ISU is awful.  They had too many open looks and overall looked just a lot more focused.  Really embarrassing to have a team playing for nothing to be more focused than our team playing for a 1/2 seed.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: canadian_breeze on March 07, 2010, 09:52:26 AM
Worst part is I lost my sexy. I mean, I pretty much convinced myself Elite 8, Sweet 16 minimum. I could see us get bounced second round, hell maybe first.
same here, I'm almost positive elite 8 is not a possibility
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: Andy on March 07, 2010, 12:24:11 PM
The worst part is that Frank is the terrible defense we've played the last couple games. We just aren't making stops once teams get into their half court offense. The word is out that we can be driven on. Last night there must have been at least 5 occasions (and at least one of those was overtime) where our guy guarding their guard who had the ball, had to switch on a screen situation, leaving our big to guard a faster ball handler so everyone backed off for the iso play and ball was easily driven to the lane where lay ups and fouls abounded. JFC

def not rotating and taking the charges as much
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: felix rex on March 07, 2010, 12:48:21 PM

Been awhile since we had a loss this terrible.  OSU at least is a tournament team.  BU last year pretty terrible.  I suppose I'd have to go back to "turn out the lights" NU to match it though.  Awful.

My exact thought. Was just thinking yesterday morning that we didn't really have anything in the "bad loss" column of the tourney breakdown...until we lost to those rough ridin' losers.

Bright side? We probably saved McNeck's job.

Dear ISU: Those K-State wins will hurt you in the long run.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: EMAWzified on March 07, 2010, 02:22:56 PM
Solid long term loss as far an McNeck security.

Did Kelly get a touch in OT? I can't remember one after a great second half.

And the driving thing. We've know for a long time Denis can't stay in front of anyone, but it seems to be everyone now.

Please, please, please don't let Denis' mom show up for any tournament games.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 07, 2010, 11:01:59 PM
Looking at the defensive numbers, while it wasn't great, it wasn't as terrible as I anticipated.   Compared to the rest of our games in the league, this was about right in the middle.  We let ISU shoot too well, but we didn't allow a ton of offensive rebounds and we forced TOs at a decent clip.  But the average defensive night was magnified by terrible offense, and really missing a lot of open shots.  I suppose when we have our worst eFG% game of the year, we shouldn't be surprised to lose.  36.6% is pretty terrible, especially for this team.  Really amazing how bad you can look when you simply don't hit shots, and really this was the story behind this loss and the OSU loss.  We managed to overcome similar offensive nights against good teams in MU and UT, but that's really the exception.  If anything, it shows that when this team really is locked in defensively, they can do it, and it probably takes a bigger opponent to do that.  More often than not, when you don't hit shots for most of the game, especially when you do generate some good ones (and we did), its simply hard to overcome that and still play great defense.  Still terrible to do that against a bad team like ISU, even if they are a bad team with a few good players.

Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: sys on March 07, 2010, 11:25:55 PM
yeah, i was going to discuss the kenpom game stats earlier, but fff has me poster intimidated about posting kenpom links.


it was like a perfect storm of not hitting shots and not oboarding.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: mcmwcat on March 08, 2010, 12:42:52 AM
yeah, i was going to discuss the kenpom game stats earlier, but fff has me poster intimidated about posting kenpom links.


it was like a perfect storm of not hitting shots and not oboarding.


worst EFG% against ISU all year except for Chicago St and N Dakota  :shy:

http://kenpom.com/expsked.php?&c=O_eFG&team=Iowa%20St.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: Cire on March 08, 2010, 07:18:52 AM
yeah, i was going to discuss the kenpom game stats earlier, but fff has me poster intimidated about posting kenpom links.


it was like a perfect storm of not hitting shots and not oboarding.


rebounding was terrible.  I think that gilstrap and brackens each had 8 boards at halftime or close thereafter.


Also it was terrible that christopherson went 4-4.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 08, 2010, 07:32:14 AM
yeah, i was going to discuss the kenpom game stats earlier, but fff has me poster intimidated about posting kenpom links.


it was like a perfect storm of not hitting shots and not oboarding.


rebounding was terrible.  I think that gilstrap and brackens each had 8 boards at halftime or close thereafter.


Also it was terrible that christopherson went 4-4.

I won't say the rebounding was good, but honestly the rebounding numbers were a bit twisted b/c we missed so many shots, especially in the first half.  When you look at the rebound opportunities, we actually outrebounded ISU on both the offensive and defensive end slightly. 
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: Andy on March 08, 2010, 09:33:47 AM
Looking at the defensive numbers, while it wasn't great, it wasn't as terrible as I anticipated.   Compared to the rest of our games in the league, this was about right in the middle.  We let ISU shoot too well, but we didn't allow a ton of offensive rebounds and we forced TOs at a decent clip.  But the average defensive night was magnified by terrible offense, and really missing a lot of open shots.  I suppose when we have our worst eFG% game of the year, we shouldn't be surprised to lose.  36.6% is pretty terrible, especially for this team.  Really amazing how bad you can look when you simply don't hit shots, and really this was the story behind this loss and the OSU loss.  We managed to overcome similar offensive nights against good teams in MU and UT, but that's really the exception.  If anything, it shows that when this team really is locked in defensively, they can do it, and it probably takes a bigger opponent to do that.  More often than not, when you don't hit shots for most of the game, especially when you do generate some good ones (and we did), its simply hard to overcome that and still play great defense.  Still terrible to do that against a bad team like ISU, even if they are a bad team with a few good players.

this makes me feel better.  While I'm sure a poor shooting night will end up dooming us in the tourney, I am confident our def will keep us in any and every game until the end.  Here's hoping we get hot at just the right time.  :cheers:
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 08, 2010, 10:23:50 AM
Another forgotten aspect that may have contributed to the loss: the players had to do the tunnel dance on the court b/c of SR night stuff.  Merri even got involved.  Really could've thrown us off our rhythm with the unconventional approach.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: Skipper44 on March 08, 2010, 10:31:50 AM
Was this the "worst" loss ever in the big 12?

I mean, the 2 seed losing to 11 seed at home has probably never happened, but you then have to throw in #5 ranking  :barf:

Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: mcmwcat on March 08, 2010, 10:35:29 AM
Was this the "worst" loss ever in the big 12?

I mean, the 2 seed losing to 11 seed at home has probably never happened, but you then have to throw in #5 ranking  :barf:



possibly.  thankfullly it really cost us nothing.  maybe a #1/2 seed.  but we're still playing for a #3/2 seed.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: kso_FAN on March 08, 2010, 10:37:49 AM
Was this the "worst" loss ever in the big 12?

I mean, the 2 seed losing to 11 seed at home has probably never happened, but you then have to throw in #5 ranking  :barf:



possibly.  thankfullly it really cost us nothing.  maybe a #1/2 seed.  but we're still playing for a #3/2 seed.

No doubt, it was a bad loss.

Biggest loss is the 1 seed, or being the 2 seed in the same region as the 4th 1 seed. 

If we stay as a 2 seed, which is likely with a win or two in KC, then we'll be in UK or 'Cuse's bracket, but still likely play in OKC in the first weekend.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: OK_Cat on March 08, 2010, 10:40:32 AM
A game like this is the exception, not the rule (as far as this team, this season).  That's why level-headed fans aren't freaking out about it.  The shots just didn't fall.  Nothing can be done about that.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: catzacker on March 08, 2010, 11:53:26 AM
The worst part, imo, is that in our best regular season in 20 years, we tied for 4th place.  Hang a banner before you turn out the lights. 
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: steve dave on March 08, 2010, 11:54:29 AM
The worst part, imo, is that in our best regular season in 20 years, we tied for 4th place.  Hang a banner before you turn out the lights. 


There it is folks
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: Skipper44 on March 08, 2010, 12:08:55 PM
The worst part, imo, is that in our best regular season in 20 years, we tied for 4th place.  Hang a banner before you turn out the lights. 


QFT - I never thought there could be such a vast difference between 12-4 and 11-5.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: slimz on March 08, 2010, 12:14:32 PM
Still shocked we gave up 40 points in the paint.  AND we let them hit 50% from 3, IIRC.  Makes you wonder what, exactly, we were defending.

Surprised we didn't see a bit more of JHR.  Maybe down low in a zone?   :dunno:  Seems like we've had a couple of games recently where the defense has picked up when he's been in the game.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: sys on March 08, 2010, 12:55:40 PM
Makes you wonder what, exactly, we were defending.

totally eliminated their mid-range game.  they were reduced to just chucking 3s and attacking the rim.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: michigancat on March 08, 2010, 12:56:30 PM
Makes you wonder what, exactly, we were defending.

totally eliminated their mid-range game.  they were reduced to just chucking 3s and attacking the rim.

lols, what a brilliant f*cking post.
Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: mcmwcat on March 08, 2010, 12:59:22 PM
Makes you wonder what, exactly, we were defending.

totally eliminated their mid-range game.  they were reduced to just chucking 3s and attacking the rim.

my fav example of this was when Kelly left his man wide open under the bucket to attempt to block what would have been an already guarded 15 ft baseline jumper.  the potential jump shooter then finds kelly's guy wide open for an easy lay in. 

Title: Re: Worst part?
Post by: swish1 on March 09, 2010, 12:50:41 AM
The worst part, imo, is that in our best regular season in 20 years, we tied for 4th place.  Hang a banner before you turn out the lights. 


QFT - I never thought there could be such a vast difference between 12-4 and 11-5.

To be fair its gotta be pretty close to both baylor and aTm's best seasons ever as well...