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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: Dr.Spaceman on December 07, 2011, 03:04:00 PM

Title: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Dr.Spaceman on December 07, 2011, 03:04:00 PM
http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/754950?sssdmh=dm1.740471&src=nl_newsalert

 :flush:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 07, 2011, 05:15:03 PM
copy/paste please.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Dr.Spaceman on December 07, 2011, 06:03:39 PM
December 7, 2011 — Plan B One-Step -- the emergency contraceptive "morning-after pill" -- will remain hidden behind pharmacy counters. Girls under age 17 will still need a prescription.

Teva Pharmaceuticals had petitioned the FDA to allow stores to put Plan B on shelves with other family-planning products -- and to sell it to anyone who wanted it. The company conducted a study it said showed that girls as young as 12 could understand how to safely use the single-pill product.

The FDA agreed. In a statement released today, FDA Commissioner Margaret Hamburg, MD, said "there is adequate and reasonable, well-supported, and science-based evidence that Plan B One-Step is safe and effective and should be approved for nonprescription use for all females of childbearing potential."

But in an extremely unusual action, HHS Commissioner Kathleen Sebelius -- Hamburg's boss -- overruled the FDA.

Sebelius noted that about 10% of girls are able to get pregnant at age 11. In a statement, Sebelius said her action "reflects my conclusion that the data provided as part of the actual use study and the label comprehension study are not sufficient to support making Plan B One-Step available to all girls 16 and younger without talking to a health-care professional."

The studies submitted to FDA, as published, included girls aged 12 to 17. At least 79% of the youngest girls could understand the instructions.

By the time a girl gets a prescription for Plan B, it may be too late. The drug must be taken within three days -- 72 hours -- of unprotected sex.

"The sooner Plan B is taken, the better it works," Amy Niemann, vice president of Teva Women's Health, tells WebMD. "That is the entire rationale for having widespread availability for this product."

Nancy L. Stanwood, MD, MPH, section chief of family planning at Yale School of Medicine, says full OTC status would have made emergency contraception available to many more people who need it.

"The irony of Plan B not being OTC for women of all ages is that it has not been available for the women who need it the most," Stanwood tells WebMD. "Teens may be sexually active for a while before they see a doctor to get a prescription for contraceptives. ... [With emergency contraceptives] they don't just have to hope the condom doesn't break. There is something they can do."

And there's another group of women that may want emergency contraception: rape victims.

"Many women who have been raped do not come in for medical care, and many do not see a doctor in a timely manner," Stanwood says. "With over-the-counter sale of Plan B, at least they could do this. And young women are more likely to be raped. We want these women to get medical care, but most do not do it quickly."
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 07, 2011, 08:11:03 PM
Dr., is your girlfriend not old enough to buy it from the pharmacist?

Seriously though, this is a calculated move by the Obama administration to shore up any problems it may cause with socially conservative democrats. Purely a political move. Not  Sebelius' decision. It would be pretty sickening to see a 12 year old girl buying it anyway.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 07, 2011, 08:57:31 PM
Seems like the morning after pill can have some pretty serious side effects.  I assume that's a major reason for not giving it OTC status.  Plus, it's not meant to be used as a frequent form of birth control.  Dunno, I'm just going on a small amount of infoI've read.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on December 07, 2011, 09:16:07 PM
I think it already is OTC if you're over 17.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 12:10:58 AM
I think it already is OTC if you're over 17.

It is, but its kept behind the pharmacist's counter .

The perverts wanted it out with the lip gloss and skittles so a 12 year old could pick some up before the slumber party.  Some boys might sneak in after mom and dad go to bed.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 02:51:38 AM
Seems like the morning after pill can have some pretty serious side effects.

Nah, not really.
Quote
Plus, it's not meant to be used as a frequent form of birth control.

And it never would be.  It's $55 per dose. 

Sibelius looks like a big ol' dummy right now.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: K-S-U-Wildcats! on December 08, 2011, 07:38:23 AM
What would happen if a girl takes this when she's already a few months into her pregnancy?
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 08:52:50 AM
Seems like the morning after pill can have some pretty serious side effects.

Nah, not really.
Quote
Plus, it's not meant to be used as a frequent form of birth control.

And it never would be.  It's $55 per dose. 

Sibelius looks like a big ol' dummy right now.

Not her decision. She and the rest  of the perverted left have been pushing for the 12 year olds  for months.  The administration realized the political backlash would be too much.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 09:09:18 AM
Seems like the morning after pill can have some pretty serious side effects.

Nah, not really.
Quote
Plus, it's not meant to be used as a frequent form of birth control.

And it never would be.  It's $55 per dose. 

Sibelius looks like a big ol' dummy right now.

Not her decision. She and the rest  of the perverted left have been pushing for the 12 year olds  for months.  The administration realized the political backlash would be too much.

12 year olds were not the problem. It was those pesky 11 year olds. :shakesfist:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 09:49:08 AM
What would happen if a girl takes this when she's already a few months into her pregnancy?

Absolutely nothing.  All it does is suppress ovulation and sometimes (rarely, from my understanding) impair implantation into uterine lining.   :nerd:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: ben ji on December 08, 2011, 09:55:54 AM
What would happen if a girl takes this when she's already a few months into her pregnancy?

Absolutely nothing.  All it does is suppress ovulation.   :nerd:

Apparently Lori on the walking dead didnt know this :smh:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 08, 2011, 11:12:24 AM
Can't imagine a large, artificial dose of progesterone or estrogen and progesterone would be a good thing for a pregnant woman.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: TBL on December 08, 2011, 11:16:30 AM
Can't imagine a large, artificial dose of progesterone or estrogen and progesterone would be a good thing for a pregnant woman.


Pfffft......they have enough massive amounts of hormones flowing that it prolly wouldn't make any difference.    :frown:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 11:30:29 AM
Dr., is your girlfriend not old enough to buy it from the pharmacist?

Seriously though, this is a calculated move by the Obama administration to shore up any problems it may cause with socially conservative democrats. Purely a political move. Not  Sebelius' decision. It would be pretty sickening to see a 12 year old girl buying it anyway.

Seeing a 12 year old girl having a baby would be even more sickening, honestly.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 11:44:28 AM
Since 12 year olds are able to understand all of the ramifications of purchasing and taking this drug, why don't we just legalize child porn and let them participate?   Actually, we don't even need to call it "child porn" anymore.  They will also be able to afford the pill without help from mommy and daddy.

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 01:14:42 PM
Can't imagine a large, artificial dose of progesterone or estrogen and progesterone would be a good thing for a pregnant woman.

http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=What+happens+if+you+take+plan+b+when+you%27re+already+pregnant%3F
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 01:15:38 PM
It would be pretty sickening to see a 12 year old girl buying it anyway.

Seeing a 12 year old girl having a baby would be even more sickening, honestly.

And this is what the retards fail to realize.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 08, 2011, 01:29:01 PM
Thanks for getting that for me.

"Plan B One-Step should not be used if a woman is pregnant or suspects that she may already be pregnant."

:dunno:

www.mckinley.illinois.edu/handouts/plan_b_contraception.html
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: AbeFroman on December 08, 2011, 01:35:48 PM
Had a condom break junior year of college. Love Plan B.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 01:43:42 PM
It would be pretty sickening to see a 12 year old girl buying it anyway.

Seeing a 12 year old girl having a baby would be even more sickening, honestly.

And this is what the retards fail to realize.

 :facepalm:

I have no problem with Plan B, but 12 year olds can't even buy spray paint at Home Depot without their parents.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 01:46:40 PM
And that's why keeping them from having kids should be our top priority. At pretty much any cost.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 08, 2011, 01:57:55 PM
I don't think anyone is saying that we should no allow young kids access to Plan B, just that some parental involvement is probably a good idea.  Also, whoever is having sex with that 12 yr old needs to be brought to the attention of the authorities.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 02:09:19 PM
I don't think anyone is saying that we should no allow young kids access to Plan B, just that some parental involvement is probably a good idea.  Also, whoever is having sex with that 12 yr old needs to be brought to the attention of the authorities.

Good point, but sometimes 12 and 13 year old boys are sexually active, too.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 08, 2011, 02:10:30 PM
Yeah, well they can deal with that however they choose.  I'd be more worried about molestation cases.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 02:18:05 PM
And that's why keeping them from having kids should be our top priority. At pretty much any cost.

You mentioned it costing $55 per dose. Where is a 12 year old getting $55?  If she is already having sex, what will she be willing to do to get that $55?
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 02:31:29 PM
And that's why keeping them from having kids should be our top priority. At pretty much any cost.

You mentioned it costing $55 per dose. Where is a 12 year old getting $55?  If she is already having sex, what will she be willing to do to get that $55?

How do you think she got pregnant in the first place?
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 08, 2011, 02:38:43 PM
Quote
You mentioned it costing $55 per dose. Where is a 12 year old getting $55?  If she is already having sex, what will she be willing to do to get that $55?

Pool her allowance with her boyfriend's paper route money?  I honestly don't give a crap what she does as long as what she does doesn't result in 12 year-olds having babies. 

Quote
How do you think she got pregnant in the first place?

She isn't pregnant yet, that's why she's getting Plan-B.    :nerd:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 02:46:24 PM
How long has Plan B been around? It should only be a matter of time before generic knock-offs become available at reasonable prices, shouldn't it?
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: kim carnes on December 08, 2011, 07:21:09 PM
If someone wants to take Plan B, they should be allowed to, regardless of age.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 08, 2011, 08:44:43 PM
If someone wants to take Plan B, they should be allowed to, regardless of age.

I agree, but I think you should be at least whatever the age of consent is in your state.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 08, 2011, 11:16:47 PM
If someone wants to take Plan B, they should be allowed to, regardless of age.

I agree, but I think you should be at least whatever the age of consent is in your state.

The age of consent is set to protect victims. It's not illegal for 12 year olds to have sex.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 09, 2011, 10:04:21 AM
It is for whoever is having sex with the 12 yr old. 
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 09, 2011, 10:19:59 AM
Pretty much feel like any 10, 11, or 12 year-old who is being raped by her dad should be allowed to buy the pill whenever she wants, and as soon as she wants.  
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 09, 2011, 11:00:51 AM
It is for whoever is having sex with the 12 yr old. 

Yes, if that person is over 18.

Regardless, I don't see a problem with a 12 year old girl who had sexual intercourse (raped or not) going to the pharmacy and preventing an unwanted pregnancy. If anything, we should be giving them the pill for free.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: theKSU on December 09, 2011, 11:54:13 AM
Good plan, Seb.  We can't have 11 year olds getting addicted to Plan B. 
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Stupid Fitz on December 09, 2011, 12:31:08 PM
I am pretty sure the world is going to end really soon. 
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 09, 2011, 12:48:22 PM
I am pretty sure the world is going to end really soon. 

yes, we are finished.  :flush:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: jtksu on December 09, 2011, 03:48:40 PM
Pretty sure sex with a 12 yr old is considered rape, no matter your age.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 09, 2011, 03:56:27 PM
Even if it's two 12 year-olds?   :confused:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: felix rex on December 09, 2011, 04:16:14 PM
It seems like everyone should be staunchly on the side of 12-year olds not involuntarily having babies. That seems like a good side.  :dunno:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: kim carnes on December 09, 2011, 06:01:26 PM
It seems like everyone should be staunchly on the side of 12-year olds not involuntarily having babies. That seems like a good side.  :dunno:

It seems like it should be that way, but apparently some people feel differently.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Tobias on December 10, 2011, 12:15:55 AM
And that's why keeping them from having kids should be our top priority. At pretty much any cost.

You mentioned it costing $55 per dose. Where is a 12 year old getting $55?  If she is already having sex, what will she be willing to do to get that $55?

How do you think she got pregnant in the first place?

this post is as underrated as it is dark :thumbs:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 10, 2011, 12:19:02 AM
http://www.rhrealitycheck.org/article/2011/12/08/disappointed-doesn%E2%80%99t-cut-it-anymore-mother%E2%80%99s-rebuttal-president-obama%E2%80%99s-plan-b-po
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: ednksu on December 10, 2011, 07:12:26 AM
talked to a pharmacist about this yesterday actually. 

First thing they said was that it should be controlled for the younger crowd in case there is abuse.  It is not that hard to get as is, this is a reasonable limitation to protect those who can't consent. 

Also it has been out for around 10 years and costs less than $55, more like slightly over $40 in Manhattan.  I'm sure if you went to county health you could probably get it for free or reduced cost. 
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 10, 2011, 11:05:15 AM
Interesting.  When you say abuse, do you mean sexual abuse or abuse of the drug?  Because if it's the former, I have to think that a dad who is raping his daughter isn't going to sign off on letting her go to the doctor to get a prescription for this, so it should be over-the-counter.  If it's the latter, well, even at $40/dose I don't see that happening.

This is a pretty good excerpt from the column I posted:

Quote
If either of my daughters ever needs back-up birth control, I hope I will be among the first to know and I would help them in whatever way I could. But, life is not always as we want it to be, and therefore, it is essential that young people have the access to the information and services they need to ensure their health and safety.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Trim on December 10, 2011, 11:08:28 AM
It's about $45 at Walgreen's.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 10, 2011, 11:21:41 AM
Disappointed in liberals who are angry just to be angry.  Frankly the behavior of some is embarrassing.  Having plan b controlled is common sense.  Using the argument that it will lead to more 12 year olds having babies is intentionally simple. Let's just make no drugs controlled so that kids who have the power to self diagnose can get ritalin, vicodin, and viagra whenever they want.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 10, 2011, 11:35:02 AM
Disappointed in liberals who are angry just to be angry.  Frankly the behavior of some is embarrassing.  Having plan b controlled is common sense.  Using the argument that it will lead to more 12 year olds having babies is intentionally simple. Let's just make no drugs controlled so that kids who have the power to self diagnose can get ritalin, vicodin, and viagra whenever they want.


Uh..........wut?  Liberals are furious with Obama.  This is a pretty rare event.  Furthermore, your "self-diagnosis to get Ritalin, Vicodin, and Viagra" argument is far more intentionally simple than our plan-B argument ... not to mention that it might be the lamest slippery-slope argument I've heard since "if men can marry other men then what why not make it legal for men to marry other kids, or their pets???"
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 11, 2011, 01:30:39 AM
Disappointed in liberals who are angry just to be angry.  Frankly the behavior of some is embarrassing.  Having plan b controlled is common sense.  Using the argument that it will lead to more 12 year olds having babies is intentionally simple. Let's just make no drugs controlled so that kids who have the power to self diagnose can get ritalin, vicodin, and viagra whenever they want.


Uh..........wut?  Liberals are furious with Obama.  This is a pretty rare event.  Furthermore, your "self-diagnosis to get Ritalin, Vicodin, and Viagra" argument is far more intentionally simple than our plan-B argument ... not to mention that it might be the lamest slippery-slope argument I've heard since "if men can marry other men then what why not make it legal for men to marry other kids, or their pets???"

I'm aware that SOME liberals are furious with Obama & that its rare.  Why did you feel the need to point this insanely obvious observation out?  Are you going to tell me next that the sun is hot?  I know that my argument was a slippery sloped straw man of an argument.  I did it intentionally to illustrate how stupid it is to profess that more 12 year olds will carry babies to term if we don't treat plan b like luden's cherry cough drops.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: ednksu on December 11, 2011, 01:51:21 AM
Interesting.  When you say abuse, do you mean sexual abuse or abuse of the drug?  Because if it's the former, I have to think that a dad who is raping his daughter isn't going to sign off on letting her go to the doctor to get a prescription for this, so it should be over-the-counter.  If it's the latter, well, even at $40/dose I don't see that happening.

This is a pretty good excerpt from the column I posted:

Quote
If either of my daughters ever needs back-up birth control, I hope I will be among the first to know and I would help them in whatever way I could. But, life is not always as we want it to be, and therefore, it is essential that young people have the access to the information and services they need to ensure their health and safety.
I did mean abuse of a minor.

The pharmacist I was talking to is very sharp and, I believe, would be able to tell some of the basic signs of abuse.  Lets be real here, if you are abusing a child you are going to slip up at some point.  I think it would be good to provide as many reasonable layers of protection that idiots would attempt to pass and ultimately fail at doing so.  The KS rules are not very intrusive and allow for a safe method of dispense for a critically important pill.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 11, 2011, 11:00:21 AM
 I know that my argument was a slippery sloped straw man of an argument.  I did it intentionally to illustrate how stupid it is to profess that more 12 year olds will carry babies to term if we don't treat plan b like luden's cherry cough drops.

Wow.  Very..............successful argument?

Quote
I think it would be good to provide as many reasonable layers of protection that idiots would attempt to pass and ultimately fail at doing so.  The KS rules are not very intrusive and allow for a safe method of dispense for a critically important pill.

And I think it would be good to provide as many reasonable layers of protection as possible to keep 12 year-olds from getting pregnant.  The FDA feels the same way.  Yet for some reason, Obama said "thanks but no thanks" to a panel of doctors and scientists who know what they're doing.  Baffling.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on December 11, 2011, 11:15:31 AM
Plan B, the Pedophiles' best  friend.  The victims mom will never need know!
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 11, 2011, 11:41:35 AM
Plan B, the Pedophiles' best  friend.  The victims mom will never need know!

 :rolleyes:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on December 11, 2011, 03:38:43 PM
Plan B, the Pedophiles' best  friend.  The victims mom will never need know!

 :lol:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) on December 11, 2011, 06:28:54 PM

Call me when coat hangers and baseball bats are unavailable OTC  :combofan:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 11, 2011, 06:30:37 PM

Call me when coat hangers and baseball bats are unavailable OTC  :combofan:



:surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised: :surprised:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 11, 2011, 08:18:08 PM
to keep 12 year-olds from getting pregnant.

you sound dumber and more out of touch with reality every time you say it
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 11, 2011, 08:43:16 PM
to keep 12 year-olds from getting pregnant.

you sound dumber and more out of touch with reality every time you say it


"Look at me, I'm MakeItRain."
 :jerk:
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: MakeItRain on December 12, 2011, 12:22:26 AM
to keep 12 year-olds from getting pregnant.

you sound dumber and more out of touch with reality every time you say it


"Look at me, I'm MakeItRain."
 :jerk:

I know you whine a lot and stuff, but you're not really as sensitive as you act on this board are you?  Serious question.
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: SkinnyBenny on December 12, 2011, 07:36:28 AM
I wasn't whining, I was rolling my eyes and masturbating. 
Title: Re: WTF, Sebelius?
Post by: Stupid Fitz on December 12, 2011, 08:51:54 AM
I wasn't whining, I was rolling my eyes and masturbating. 

lol