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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: Pete on July 08, 2011, 04:32:42 PM

Title: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Pete on July 08, 2011, 04:32:42 PM
I think we are on the right track...

1. Wichita boys came back
2. Daniel Sams
3. Stadium improvement that might put us back on par with the lower middle class of Big 12, like Texas Tech, for example
4. Chance to have back to back bowl games for first time since our recruits got pubes
5. I hear from those in the know that we are doing a good job identifying in-state talent, and winning recruiting battles.   OB has apparently been evolving, thank God.

Those are good things, and deserve to be celebrated.

But, what is going to ensure sustained success? 

I come back, each time I think on this, to coaching.   OB is an offensive mastermind, always has been...but what about the D?  When we won in the past, we had massive coaching talents on D.   
Can we expect to improve with this Defensive coaching staff?   I honestly don't know, and am asking for insight from you dudes...

Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Dugout DickStone on July 08, 2011, 04:38:18 PM
a "down" mu, ut, ou, osu, atm, tt, bu.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Pete on July 08, 2011, 04:42:40 PM
a "down" mu, ut, ou, osu, atm, tt, bu.

All the more reason to schedule down in noncon.

I think we could see a down Baylor eventually, Bryles will be on some lists.   The rest aren't going anywhere
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 04:46:16 PM
a very good defensive coordinator with innovative ideas

more concretely:
The ability to control the line of scrimmage on defense.  If we cannot get e big players we need to do this with a conventional system (like we used to from the juco ranks), we need to find a way to do via schemes and clever/ aggressive play calling.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 04:46:53 PM
Unless our D-staff leaves on their own accord within the next year or so, and the new coaching staff hired to replace them is not only rough ridin' awesome, but they don't mind being unemployed as soon as OBz calms the waters & decides to retire again

So my guess is, a rough ridin' miracle.

Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 04:47:21 PM
a very good defensive coordinator with innovative ideas

Why in the hell would anyone want to coach with Snyder?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 04:48:13 PM
The more I think about it, I think the reason Sean was brought on as a coach is because no on else would even apply for a job.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 08, 2011, 04:50:35 PM
an act of god.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 08, 2011, 04:52:41 PM
1.  Better depth.

2.  Better overall talent, particularly on defense.  Which means recruiting is going to have to get better.

3.  A defense that's in the 40's in total and scoring defense, and we are plus takeaways.

Putting the ball in the endzone against most teams probably won't be an issue with the offensive staff.   Defensive staff  :ck:

Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 04:53:32 PM
a very good defensive coordinator with innovative ideas

Why in the hell would anyone want to coach with Snyder?
The non-cynical me would point out that Bill has a great track record of defensive coordinators getting big time jobs.

The cynical me would them point out that this trend has crashed and burned lately.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Pete on July 08, 2011, 04:54:45 PM
 :thumbs:
The more I think about it, I think the reason Sean was brought on as a coach is because no on else would even apply for a job.

I fear this is accurate.   My dream is OB as offensive coord., with a Venzy type running the show.  

I wonder if OB is too proud to do something like that?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 08, 2011, 04:57:36 PM
I wonder if OB is too proud to do something like that?

pffft, of course he is. he's a control freak as well.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: AbeFroman on July 08, 2011, 04:57:53 PM
A time machine.

Face it, the years of 0 or 1 loss seasons are over. We may end up with 9-3 records on occasion, but it will be very few and far between.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Stevesie60 on July 08, 2011, 04:58:18 PM
Leach.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 04:58:58 PM
I feel better about the program at this point in time then I did last July.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 05:00:02 PM
:thumbs:
The more I think about it, I think the reason Sean was brought on as a coach is because no on else would even apply for a job.

I fear this is accurate.   My dream is OB as offensive coord., with a Venzy type running the show.  

I wonder if OB is too proud to do something like that?

Would be amazing, but it would require the head coach to allow Bill to have FULL CONTROL of something along with running offense.

Would never work - think of the pissing matches that would occur.  No one would respect the head coach if his coordinators talked to him like they ran the show.  
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 05:00:40 PM
A time machine.

Face it, the years of 0 or 1 loss seasons are over. We may end up with 9-3 records on occasion, but it will be very few and far between.
I would consider 9-3 seasons a success.  A 9 and 3 in 201x is prob about as hard to do as 10-2 was in 199x.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 05:01:20 PM
I feel better about the program at this point in time then I did last July.
I'm feeling better knowing this site isn't completely over-run with 'tards.  Good thread.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Pete on July 08, 2011, 05:14:21 PM
IMO, we will have 10 more years of OB.   I have come terms with that.

I just him to make the most of it.   Not because I am rooting for LHC Bill Snyder, I am no Redisni....but for ksucatsfootball.   Leave the rough ridin' thing better than you found it, Bill....and I dont include.the crap we would have had anyway...the rising tide of the conference and the sport raises all boats.


What is LHC Bill Snyder doing to make us rise higher than our conference foes?   Is he doing better or worse than our foes at hiring talented AC's?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 08, 2011, 05:14:27 PM
I feel better about the program at this point in time then I did last July.

i feel the exact same about it.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 05:14:36 PM
9-3 seasons are likely top 20 seasons.  If you really feel like we're owed something more than that, well, you're an idiot.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 08, 2011, 05:16:23 PM
9-3 seasons are likely top 20 seasons.  If you really feel like we're owed something more than that, well, you're an idiot.

if you really feel like we're headed back to numerous 9-win seasons or better, well, you're an idiot.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: sonofdaxjones on July 08, 2011, 05:18:11 PM
If the conferences stays at 10 teams with the round robin schedule, going 9-3 is a fantastic season IMO.   But I only see 7 or 8 win seasons at best in the future.





Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 05:22:53 PM
IMO, we will have 10 more years of OB.   I have come terms with that.

I just him to make the most of it.   Not because I am rooting for LHC Bill Snyder, I am no Redisni....but for ksucatsfootball.   Leave the rough ridin' thing better than you found it, Bill....and I dont include.the crap we would have had anyway...the rising tide of the conference and the sport raises all boats.


What is LHC Bill Snyder doing to make us rise higher than our conference foes?   Is he doing better or worse than our foes at hiring talented AC's?
He is doing a bit worse probably.  Time of course will tell, but as programs only KU, ISU, and Baylor are arguably in worse shape right now.  
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 05:28:25 PM
Seems like Snyds has a decent track record with leaving things better than he found them.  Hell, isn't Whitney even married now?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 05:34:24 PM
Seems like Snyds has a decent track record with leaving things better than he found them.  Hell, isn't Whitney even married now?
There is one data point in your record, and frankly back to back last place finishes in your division isn't something I would consider that much improved.

( yes yes yes better than worst of all time blah blah blah, but seriously last place is last place)
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 05:37:39 PM
And Prince took the the 06 team to a bowl, so we obviously weren't nearly as bad as you try to pretend.  CCG, 2 bad years, Texas Bowl.  How many times had that happened pre-Snyder?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 05:46:55 PM
And Prince took the the 06 team to a bowl, so we obviously weren't nearly as bad as you try to pretend.  CCG, 2 bad years, Texas Bowl.  How many times had that happened pre-Snyder?
listen, last place is last place.  The talent level that Bill brought in in 02, 03, and 04 was terrible and trending downwards very fast. 

was the program in 2005 better than being the worst of all time?  yes
was it better than being the worst in the big 12? questionable
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 05:53:32 PM
Pretty sure we beat KU and Mizzou that year.  :dunno:
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 05:55:53 PM
Pretty sure we beat KU and Mizzou that year.  :dunno:
yeah and we beat texas in 06 and 07, did that make our program better than theirs?
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 08, 2011, 06:09:11 PM
Pretty sure we beat KU and Mizzou that year.  :dunno:

nothing more tuckish (suck it Belvis!) than using head-to-head as the sole evaluation of one team vs. another.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 06:13:01 PM
Yeah, we should really invent some sort of computer program to let us know which team is better.  This whole "playing each other" crap is way overrated.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 06:20:32 PM
Yeah, we should really invent some sort of computer program to let us know which team is better.  This whole "playing each other" crap is way overrated.
key word is "program" not "team"

furthermore, I know you know the transitive property breaks down pretty fast when you only play one game a year.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: jtksu on July 08, 2011, 06:45:07 PM
Koougs said team, not program.  And would the transitive prop still be useful if, say, we were to beat UT repeatedly?
Title: Re: Re: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: CHONGS on July 08, 2011, 07:06:04 PM
Koougs said team, not program.  And would the transitive prop still be useful if, say, we were to beat UT repeatedly?
Well kougs is an idiot.   Trans prop works better in this case if the teams have similar conference records and repeated head to head beatings
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 08, 2011, 07:24:58 PM
And Prince took the the 06 team to a bowl, so we obviously weren't nearly as bad as you try to pretend.  CCG, 2 bad years, Texas Bowl.  How many times had that happened pre-Snyder?

Prince took the 06 team to a shitty bowl after a shitty record with a future NFL coach running the D and a future D1 coach running the O. 
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Cire on July 08, 2011, 07:25:26 PM
Areturn to a run happy big 12 and nfl talent on both sides of the ball
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Bill Clarahan on July 08, 2011, 07:59:01 PM
Sorry, I kinda skipped over the discussion part of this thread to answer the root question, Pete.  I'm thinkin we need a dozen diamonds in the rough.   What do I win!!1!
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Skipper44 on July 09, 2011, 12:27:11 PM
A DoD level DC is ideal - Levitt would have been a home run IMO. 

A more realistic hope is a Bielema type AC hire.  I do not feel great about OB's ability to do either  :pray:
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: PowercatPat on July 09, 2011, 01:17:30 PM
A miracle.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: wetwillie on July 09, 2011, 01:28:28 PM
Divorcing ourselves from the snyder family completely
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: W.Churchill on July 09, 2011, 01:50:28 PM
"One Hundred Year Floods" [which is sort of what the DOD was] require a number of very unusual circumstances happening simultaneously. 
At this point it would require OU, UT, aTm TT and OSU to all suffer USC level NCAA sanctions at the same time which might lead Patterson to see some hope in bringing in the type of recruits he would need to win at his alma mater. 
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: 5601js on July 09, 2011, 01:59:01 PM
Talent and coaches that are able to 1) recruit the talent, and 2) develop the talent once they make it to KSU.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Winters on July 09, 2011, 02:09:22 PM
Divorcing ourselves from the snyder family completely
Bingo
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Dugout DickStone on July 09, 2011, 03:57:01 PM
Brian Butler finding at least 2 5* linemen.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: kougar24 on July 09, 2011, 04:16:08 PM
Koougs said team, not program.  And would the transitive prop still be useful if, say, we were to beat UT repeatedly?
Well kougs is an idiot.   Trans prop works better in this case if the teams have similar conference records and repeated head to head beatings

i said "team" instead of "program" intentionally, fuckstick; K-State actually has had better teams than Texas in certain years, for instance, but we will never have a better program. And a single head-to-head matchup is a horrible sole indicator for either one.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: nicname on July 10, 2011, 05:50:37 AM
And Prince took the the 06 team to a bowl, so we obviously weren't nearly as bad as you try to pretend.  CCG, 2 bad years, Texas Bowl.  How many times had that happened pre-Snyder?

Prince took the 06 team to a shitty bowl after a shitty record with a future NFL coach running the D and a future D1 coach running the O. 

Yeah, and the 06 team was going to be decent whether Snyder or Prince was the coach.  Prince screwed himself by being a d-bag and running off a great staff.  He further cemented his abortion of a tenure by laughable replacement hires. 
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: AppleJack on July 10, 2011, 09:44:56 AM
I am 100% convinced the most important thing to get the meow cats back to relevance is an Afro-American quarterback. it doesnt matter if he can throw, its all about swagger. God I love black QB's. Anyone care to disagree? Racist.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: _33 on July 10, 2011, 05:41:59 PM
I am 100% convinced the most important thing to get the meow cats back to relevance is an Afro-American quarterback. it doesnt matter if he can throw, its all about swagger. God I love black QB's. Anyone care to disagree? Racist.

LHC Bill Snyder disagrees according to d_scott

Quote from: d_scott
In addition to Tyler Lockett and Morgan Burns, Daniel Sams as a WR has impressed Collin Klein.

 :flush:

Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Playboy X on July 10, 2011, 05:50:07 PM
I thought this was a K-State FAN website.  Sounds like some of you losers don't support that same team as I do, K-STATE.



PBX
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: HeinBallz on July 11, 2011, 12:18:06 AM
I thought this was a K-State FAN website.  Sounds like some of you losers don't support that same team as I do, K-STATE.



PBX

It's okay to support a team and offer opinions on why that same team sucks.  Pull OBz dick out of your mouth and try to look at things objectively.
Title: Re: What is it going to take for us to "get back?"
Post by: Clevey 2 Times on July 11, 2011, 10:49:58 AM
Talent and coaches that are able to 1) recruit farm the talent, and 2) develop farm the talent once they make it to KSU.

Fixed.

Getting the best players in state is a must, thankfully OB sells a history of success and Gill only has the holy trinity on his side.