goemaw.com

TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 09:34:30 AM

Title: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 09:34:30 AM
The Scout on the Badgers. (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=968)

Should be a fun game and I anticipate it will come down to the last 5 minutes.
Title: Re: On Wisconson
Post by: kslim on March 18, 2011, 09:39:40 AM
straight to the bottom  :cry:
Title: Re: On Wisconson
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 18, 2011, 09:40:57 AM
 :ohno:

What jerseys are we wearing?
Title: Re: On Wisconson
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 09:42:51 AM
straight to the bottom  :cry:

Later. (It worked for Utah State, 65-60 was close)
Title: Re: On Wisconson
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 18, 2011, 09:52:28 AM
Nicely done.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 09:53:54 AM
wisconson?

I'm terrible. My editor needs to be fired.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: WillieWatanabe on March 18, 2011, 09:54:56 AM


I'm terrible. My editor needs to be fired.


I'll edit my post. it never happened.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Joker on March 18, 2011, 09:59:15 AM
The Scout on the Badgers. (http://goEMAW.com/blog/?p=968)

Should be a fun game and I anticipate it will come down to the last 5 minutes.

Was going to ask you how they compared to the '08 team.  Still very  :ohno: about this one.  Do not have a good feeling at all.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on March 18, 2011, 10:06:04 AM
Real good stuff there, thanks _FAN.

I think Samuels being able to handle Leuer 1 on 1 in the post and blanketing him on the wing could be really big for us. Since they've got shooters across the board, overhelping against these guys could spell trouble.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: catzacker on March 18, 2011, 10:22:59 AM
Real good stuff there, thanks _FAN.

I think Samuels being able to handle Leuer 1 on 1 in the post and blanketing him on the wing could be really big for us. Since they've got shooters across the board, overhelping against these guys could spell trouble.

i don't have much faith in samuels to do much of anything besides foul.  he apparently is fine with giving us louis colon minute and production.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 18, 2011, 10:23:47 AM
i do not like the attitude of that badger that is posted on the linked article. he and i would fight if we met in real life.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Underdog Wildcat on March 18, 2011, 10:55:29 AM
Real good stuff there, thanks _FAN.

I think Samuels being able to handle Leuer 1 on 1 in the post and blanketing him on the wing could be really big for us. Since they've got shooters across the board, overhelping against these guys could spell trouble.

i don't have much faith in samuels to do much of anything besides foul.  he apparently is fine with giving us louis colon minute and production.

Of course you don't, you don't have faith in anything.

I'm not going to say Jamar played great last night and foul trouble has certainly saddled him the past couple months. I do think he got our most important bucket of the night last night with about 3 mins to go and they had cut our lead to 6, Pullen drove in the lane, drew help, hit Samuels with a nice pass on the baseline and Jamar knocked down that leaning 8 fter off the glass. Good bucket in a BIG spot.

I also think he provides us with the best possible defensive matchup to Leuer's inside-outside game. I don't think Curt is real comfortable or experienced clsoing out on shooters from the wing, and Leuer shoots it extremely well from deep, and god bless JO, but I don't think he can be expected to hang with ANYBODY on the perimeter, let alone an  all-conference player and projected 1st rd pick like Leuer.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 18, 2011, 10:58:00 AM
i mean seriously. i would grab that sweater and yank him down so hard and fast that it wouldn't even be funny.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: jaa1025 on March 18, 2011, 11:00:55 AM
I'm not confident in this match up at all. I hate this style of BBall and it's why the shot clock needs to be dropped even more. It's going to take a great effort to beat Wisconsin and a healthy Jacob Pullen.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Dr Rick Daris on March 18, 2011, 11:04:50 AM
why are his fists clenched? is he looking for a fight?
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: fatty fat fat on March 18, 2011, 11:05:51 AM
why are his fists clenched? is he looking for a fight?

he's a f*cking b*tch that needs his ass kicked.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Kat Kid on March 18, 2011, 11:07:52 AM
i mean seriously. i would grab that sweater and yank him down so hard and fast that it wouldn't even be funny.

impossible.  I mean sure, we'd be shocked at the speed and the wrath, but we'd process that and begin chuckling in no time at all.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 11:10:18 AM
Of course you don't, you don't have faith in anything.

I'm not going to say Jamar played great last night and foul trouble has certainly saddled him the past couple months. I do think he got our most important bucket of the night last night with about 3 mins to go and they had cut our lead to 6, Pullen drove in the lane, drew help, hit Samuels with a nice pass on the baseline and Jamar knocked down that leaning 8 fter off the glass. Good bucket in a BIG spot.

I also think he provides us with the best possible defensive matchup to Leuer's inside-outside game. I don't think Curt is real comfortable or experienced clsoing out on shooters from the wing, and Leuer shoots it extremely well from deep, and god bless JO, but I don't think he can be expected to hang with ANYBODY on the perimeter, let alone an  all-conference player and projected 1st rd pick like Leuer.

Good points.

I really wish Jamar would stop making easy shots hard. I wish he would avoid dumb, overly aggressive fouls. I wish he'd hit his 3s (I didn't mind either one last night). I wish he'd get to the foul line more.

However, the overly aggressive, hyper-energetic manner in which he plays which causes most of his problems, is also the most benefit to us. He really bothers other bigs and makes it hard for them to score. He will make plays at times, last night's example is a great one. And I've just accepted that this is what Jamar has become for us and moved on. Even if he only plays 17 minutes and only scores 4 points, he is still a key piece for us with the minutes he plays. Now, if he can put it together and have one of those 12-15 point nights Saturday that would be great, I just don't expect it.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Emo EMAW on March 18, 2011, 12:12:09 PM
Of course you don't, you don't have faith in anything.

I'm not going to say Jamar played great last night and foul trouble has certainly saddled him the past couple months. I do think he got our most important bucket of the night last night with about 3 mins to go and they had cut our lead to 6, Pullen drove in the lane, drew help, hit Samuels with a nice pass on the baseline and Jamar knocked down that leaning 8 fter off the glass. Good bucket in a BIG spot.

I also think he provides us with the best possible defensive matchup to Leuer's inside-outside game. I don't think Curt is real comfortable or experienced clsoing out on shooters from the wing, and Leuer shoots it extremely well from deep, and god bless JO, but I don't think he can be expected to hang with ANYBODY on the perimeter, let alone an  all-conference player and projected 1st rd pick like Leuer.

Good points.

I really wish Jamar would stop making easy shots hard. I wish he would avoid dumb, overly aggressive fouls. I wish he'd hit his 3s (I didn't mind either one last night). I wish he'd get to the foul line more.

However, the overly aggressive, hyper-energetic manner in which he plays which causes most of his problems, is also the most benefit to us. He really bothers other bigs and makes it hard for them to score. He will make plays at times, last night's example is a great one. And I've just accepted that this is what Jamar has become for us and moved on. Even if he only plays 17 minutes and only scores 4 points, he is still a key piece for us with the minutes he plays. Now, if he can put it together and have one of those 12-15 point nights Saturday that would be great, I just don't expect it.

Do think he's the same next year?
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 12:14:01 PM
Of course you don't, you don't have faith in anything.

I'm not going to say Jamar played great last night and foul trouble has certainly saddled him the past couple months. I do think he got our most important bucket of the night last night with about 3 mins to go and they had cut our lead to 6, Pullen drove in the lane, drew help, hit Samuels with a nice pass on the baseline and Jamar knocked down that leaning 8 fter off the glass. Good bucket in a BIG spot.

I also think he provides us with the best possible defensive matchup to Leuer's inside-outside game. I don't think Curt is real comfortable or experienced clsoing out on shooters from the wing, and Leuer shoots it extremely well from deep, and god bless JO, but I don't think he can be expected to hang with ANYBODY on the perimeter, let alone an  all-conference player and projected 1st rd pick like Leuer.

Good points.

I really wish Jamar would stop making easy shots hard. I wish he would avoid dumb, overly aggressive fouls. I wish he'd hit his 3s (I didn't mind either one last night). I wish he'd get to the foul line more.

However, the overly aggressive, hyper-energetic manner in which he plays which causes most of his problems, is also the most benefit to us. He really bothers other bigs and makes it hard for them to score. He will make plays at times, last night's example is a great one. And I've just accepted that this is what Jamar has become for us and moved on. Even if he only plays 17 minutes and only scores 4 points, he is still a key piece for us with the minutes he plays. Now, if he can put it together and have one of those 12-15 point nights Saturday that would be great, I just don't expect it.

Do think he's the same next year?

Hopefully a more consistent scorer and better decision maker, but who knows. His energy is important to this team though.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: michigancat on March 18, 2011, 12:14:55 PM
I think Jamar should make it a goal to be a part of a double foul tomorrow night.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 18, 2011, 12:18:47 PM
Prepare yourself for this deceptive state: Wisconsin gives up "only" 58 points per game defensively. I guarantee you it will be an announcer talking point from Harlan and crew about their great defense. It sounds really good, but it does not factor in that Wiscy plays the slowest pace in college basketball. Wisconsin actually gives up 1.01 points per possession, good for #157 in the country. So in reality they are a pretty average defense. If they played the same pace as us (68 possessions per game) they would give up nearly 70 points per game.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 18, 2011, 12:25:07 PM
I think Jamar should make it a goal to be a part of a double foul tomorrow night.

Me too, but I hope that he has 15 and 8 before he fouls out this time.   :emawkid:
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: CNS on March 18, 2011, 12:32:19 PM
I am totally fine with Jamar fouling out and only getting 4 pts if he gets the other team's best player in heavy foul troub early off. 

Better than said player not being in foul troub and jamar going 15 and 8, imo.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: catzacker on March 18, 2011, 01:14:59 PM
Real good stuff there, thanks _FAN.

I think Samuels being able to handle Leuer 1 on 1 in the post and blanketing him on the wing could be really big for us. Since they've got shooters across the board, overhelping against these guys could spell trouble.

i don't have much faith in samuels to do much of anything besides foul.  he apparently is fine with giving us louis colon minute and production.

Of course you don't, you don't have faith in anything.

I'm not going to say Jamar played great last night and foul trouble has certainly saddled him the past couple months. I do think he got our most important bucket of the night last night with about 3 mins to go and they had cut our lead to 6, Pullen drove in the lane, drew help, hit Samuels with a nice pass on the baseline and Jamar knocked down that leaning 8 fter off the glass. Good bucket in a BIG spot.

I also think he provides us with the best possible defensive matchup to Leuer's inside-outside game. I don't think Curt is real comfortable or experienced clsoing out on shooters from the wing, and Leuer shoots it extremely well from deep, and god bless JO, but I don't think he can be expected to hang with ANYBODY on the perimeter, let alone an  all-conference player and projected 1st rd pick like Leuer.

my point wasn't that jamar wasn't our best option defensively, it's that he's our foul collector on defense.  also, with his ability he shouldn't just give us colon production offensively.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: sys on March 18, 2011, 01:19:42 PM
my point wasn't that jamar wasn't our best option defensively, it's that he's our foul collector on defense.  also, with his ability he shouldn't just give us colon production offensively.

what ability, exactly, are you claiming?
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Kat Kid on March 18, 2011, 01:21:24 PM
my point wasn't that jamar wasn't our best option defensively, it's that he's our foul collector on defense.  also, with his ability he shouldn't just give us colon production offensively.

what ability, exactly, are you claiming?

hops!
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: catzacker on March 18, 2011, 01:32:26 PM
my point wasn't that jamar wasn't our best option defensively, it's that he's our foul collector on defense.  also, with his ability he shouldn't just give us colon production offensively.

what ability, exactly, are you claiming?

scoring ability.  he should be better around the rim than he has been over basically the past month. 
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: sys on March 18, 2011, 01:53:03 PM
scoring ability.  he should be better around the rim than he has been over basically the past month. 

he's never demonstrated any scoring ability.  he can hit an adequate % of open shots.  in the post, he has no moves, he just moves to the rim and draws fouls.

there's nothing wrong with that, but he's not a focal scorer.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Emo EMAW on March 18, 2011, 01:53:50 PM
scoring ability.  he should be better around the rim than he has been over basically the past month. 

he's never demonstrated any scoring ability.  he can hit an adequate % of open shots.  in the post, he has no moves, he just moves to the rim and draws fouls.

there's nothing wrong with that, but he's not a focal scorer.

[insert anecdotal evidence here]
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 18, 2011, 02:07:18 PM
scoring ability.  he should be better around the rim than he has been over basically the past month. 

he's never demonstrated any scoring ability.  he can hit an adequate % of open shots.  in the post, he has no moves, he just moves to the rim and draws fouls.

there's nothing wrong with that, but he's not a focal scorer.

He should also draw 3-5 fouls more per game, but be sometimes prefers to avoid contact at the rim and miss a lay in. I don't care how it happens, he just needs to be "productive" Saturday.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: chum1 on March 18, 2011, 02:21:25 PM
samuels averaged 11 ppg last year.  8.5 this year.  it's not unreasonable to expect him to improve.  or at least not regress.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: catzacker on March 18, 2011, 02:25:25 PM
scoring ability.  he should be better around the rim than he has been over basically the past month. 

he's never demonstrated any scoring ability.  he can hit an adequate % of open shots.  in the post, he has no moves, he just moves to the rim and draws fouls.there's nothing wrong with that, but he's not a focal scorer.

this is an ability, imo.  and he was better at last year.  with more points/opps to score points available he hasn't performed as well.  He's at 8ppg, he was at 11 last year, I'm asking for 4-6 more points a game, which he has and has shown he has the ability to do.  he isn't finishing around the rim like he can.  
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: bigwillie20 on March 18, 2011, 02:27:19 PM
Needs to take "dunks on bitches" class this summer with Profesor Enreekay Robert
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Skipper44 on March 18, 2011, 02:54:12 PM
I am disappointed he has not been able to develop his mid range jumper. 

He has a nice looking release and most bigs will give him a open look from 10 ft or so out of respect for his ability to drive to the rim (irregardless of his ability to finish) but it appears he just sucks at shooting  :frown:
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Cackle on March 18, 2011, 02:55:36 PM
I bet Wisconsin doesn'teven have dicks to flop
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: sys on March 18, 2011, 03:23:09 PM
this is an ability, imo.  and he was better at last year.  with more points/opps to score points available he hasn't performed as well.  He's at 8ppg, he was at 11 last year, I'm asking for 4-6 more points a game, which he has and has shown he has the ability to do.  he isn't finishing around the rim like he can.  

his minutes and shot rates are almost identical as last year.  big difference is ftrate.  you can argue that he is doing something different to draw fewer fouls, and i'd have no counterargument.  however; imo, he just isn't getting as generous of calls.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: sys on March 18, 2011, 03:23:59 PM
I am disappointed he has not been able to develop his mid range jumper. 

He has a nice looking release and most bigs will give him a open look from 10 ft or so out of respect for his ability to drive to the rim (irregardless of his ability to finish) but it appears he just sucks at shooting  :frown:

good post, skipper44.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: steve dave on March 18, 2011, 03:53:14 PM
great job as usual _FAN
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: SwiftCat on March 18, 2011, 10:56:02 PM
These might be my favorite threads on this website.

I really enjoy pretending to have hbbiq when I repeat these stats to my friends.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: k-state87 on March 18, 2011, 11:35:58 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm3.static.flickr.com%2F2374%2F2154317239_332e6f777b_o.jpg&hash=7b0bde8da08026a8ceb7dd407fde9fb3abaf25cf)

Wisconsin doesn't even know what they are going to be in for tomorrow.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: swish1 on March 18, 2011, 11:38:41 PM
Prepare yourself for this deceptive state: Wisconsin gives up "only" 58 points per game defensively. I guarantee you it will be an announcer talking point from Harlan and crew about their great defense. It sounds really good, but it does not factor in that Wiscy plays the slowest pace in college basketball. Wisconsin actually gives up 1.01 points per possession, good for #157 in the country. So in reality they are a pretty average defense. If they played the same pace as us (68 possessions per game) they would give up nearly 70 points per game.

are there examples of games in which they have been forced to play at a higher pace and this defensive weakness was a little more apparent?  from looking solely at the scores of their games the one that sticks out is the loss to ohio st.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: SleepFighter on March 19, 2011, 12:29:52 AM
Prepare yourself for this deceptive state: Wisconsin gives up "only" 58 points per game defensively. I guarantee you it will be an announcer talking point from Harlan and crew about their great defense. It sounds really good, but it does not factor in that Wiscy plays the slowest pace in college basketball. Wisconsin actually gives up 1.01 points per possession, good for #157 in the country. So in reality they are a pretty average defense. If they played the same pace as us (68 possessions per game) they would give up nearly 70 points per game.

are there examples of games in which they have been forced to play at a higher pace and this defensive weakness was a little more apparent?  from looking solely at the scores of their games the one that sticks out is the loss to ohio st.

Nobody speeds up Wisconsin.  Here's there game by game efficiencies sorted on pace.  http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Wisconsin&s=Pace (http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Wisconsin&s=Pace)

The highest paced game they played all year was 65.  Of course they still managed to score 99 points.  Notice too, that they've lost two of the three slowest paced games that they've played this year.  Maybe we should do that.  You know, like how all the TV guys will say that pressing teams don't like to be pressed.  But the opposite of that. :dunno:
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 19, 2011, 07:07:47 AM
Yeah, we aren't likely to speed them up. If we can push pace to the lower 60's it will be fast for them. But we don't really fast pace to win, just rebound and make shots.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 19, 2011, 07:24:12 AM
And I'm going with 64-61 Cats.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: theKSU on March 19, 2011, 11:57:18 AM
I agree with _Fan.  I see us as being about a 3 point favorite in this game, not the 3.5 point dog Vegas has us at.  I guess bettors are looking at the seed and the results of our last game against them, rather than how the team is playing.  Rodney and Pullen are hitting shots when they need to right now, and JHR has basically started shutting down big ugly white guys down low.

Keys of course are hitting the 3s and staying out of foul trouble.  If we do that, I think we can build a big enough lead to shut them out of any attempt at a comeback.  K-State needs to forget about trying to set a pace in the game.  Take fast breaks when they appear, otherwise run a standard offense. 

On D just keep them on the perimeter and avoid the backdoor cuts so they have to knock down 3s.  Our guards have gotten so good at defense in the past couple of months that nobody is hitting 3s with any consistency against us.  I think that is the biggest reason why we've been able to hang on to leads. 
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: Stupid Fitz on March 19, 2011, 12:00:12 PM
And I'm going with 64-61 Cats.
:pbj:
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kougar24 on March 19, 2011, 12:23:02 PM
Except Samuels isn't drawing fouls anymore either. He puts the ball behind his head and flails so much, the refs aren't baling him out.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kougar24 on March 19, 2011, 12:23:25 PM
Nm
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: sys on March 19, 2011, 03:14:33 PM
On D just keep them on the perimeter and avoid the backdoor cuts so they have to knock down 3s.

opposite, imo.  make them win on 2s, if they can.


but really, i think wisconsin will do what they do offensively.  kstate will have to match their efficiency to win.  kinda agree with ken pomeroy on the likelihood of that.
Title: Re: On Wisconsin
Post by: kso_FAN on March 19, 2011, 03:47:09 PM
On D just keep them on the perimeter and avoid the backdoor cuts so they have to knock down 3s.

opposite, imo.  make them win on 2s, if they can.


but really, i think wisconsin will do what they do offensively.  kstate will have to match their efficiency to win.  kinda agree with ken pomeroy on the likelihood of that.

Yes, my thought is to win this game we need to score at a rate over 1.0 PPP probably close to 1.1.  My score of 64-61 assumes a 59 to 60 possession game. I certainly don't see us holding them under 1.0 PPP defensively.