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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: kso_FAN on February 09, 2011, 11:03:52 AM
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Granted, it may not matter for us, but Gasaway with a nice piece on why there should be a difference process for seeding compared to selection. (http://www.basketballprospectus.com/unfiltered/?p=632)
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Statistical breakdown definately has it's place in basketball. Using mathematics to see trends is okay, not perfect but okay. Using mathematics to attempt to breakdown what you've just seen is also okay. Using mathematics as a predictor is dumb and some of these guys take it too far. A math equation can be just as biased and subjective as using eyeballs, but not nearly as practical. Gassaway and Pomeroy can do what they do without ever watching a game, that's a problem.
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Statistical breakdown definately has it's place in basketball. Using mathematics to see trends is okay, not perfect but okay. Using mathematics to attempt to breakdown what you've just seen is also okay. Using mathematics as a predictor is dumb and some of these guys take it too far. A math equation can be just as biased and subjective as using eyeballs, but not nearly as practical. Gassaway and Pomeroy can do what they do without ever watching a game, that's a problem.
Personally, I would take a computer over the gang of retards using things like "post play" as evaluation criteria any day of the week. Maybe even twice on Sunday:
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/this_years_question_to_the_committee/
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Statistical breakdown definately has it's place in basketball. Using mathematics to see trends is okay, not perfect but okay. Using mathematics to attempt to breakdown what you've just seen is also okay. Using mathematics as a predictor is dumb and some of these guys take it too far. A math equation can be just as biased and subjective as using eyeballs, but not nearly as practical. Gassaway and Pomeroy can do what they do without ever watching a game, that's a problem.
Personally, I would take a computer over the gang of retards using things like "post play" as evaluation criteria any day of the week. Maybe even twice on Sunday:
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/this_years_question_to_the_committee/
I read that when he posted it. My post was not in support of the selection committee, but a critique of the overreaching of basketball sabermetrics. The selection committee watching games in person is really stupid, they should never se a game in prson, they should be somewhere watching 4 games at once. There are enough Luke Winn's out there to make the overall process better.
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Statistical breakdown definately has it's place in basketball. Using mathematics to see trends is okay, not perfect but okay. Using mathematics to attempt to breakdown what you've just seen is also okay. Using mathematics as a predictor is dumb and some of these guys take it too far. A math equation can be just as biased and subjective as using eyeballs, but not nearly as practical. Gassaway and Pomeroy can do what they do without ever watching a game, that's a problem.
Personally, I would take a computer over the gang of retards using things like "post play" as evaluation criteria any day of the week. Maybe even twice on Sunday:
http://kenpom.com/blog/index.php/weblog/this_years_question_to_the_committee/
I read that when he posted it. My post was not in support of the selection committee, but a critique of the overreaching of basketball sabermetrics. The selection committee watching games in person is really stupid, they should never se a game in prson, they should be somewhere watching 4 games at once. There are enough Luke Winn's out there to make the overall process better.
Agreed. I'll admit, I'm a basketball sabermetrics fan and I obviously carry that banner high, but you have to watch the teams play as well and have a knowledge of good/bad basketball. I did like Gasaway's premise of the value of the current system for selection, but a different system for seeding. Now the exact mechanisms of how that should change, I have no idea.
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kenpom should have no use in selections or seeding. it doesn't judge what a team "accomplishes"
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kenpom should have no use in selections or seeding. it doesn't judge what a team "accomplishes"
agree completely both selection and seeding should be based on accomplishments. metrics that assess quality as opposed to accomplishment should not be used for either. gasaway's premise that seeding should use different criteria than selection is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
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kenpom should have no use in selections or seeding. it doesn't judge what a team "accomplishes"
agree completely both selection and seeding should be based on accomplishments. metrics that assess quality as opposed to accomplishment should not be used for either. gasaway's premise that seeding should use different criteria than selection is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
Explain a little more. I thought it had some merit.
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kenpom should have no use in selections or seeding. it doesn't judge what a team "accomplishes"
agree completely both selection and seeding should be based on accomplishments. metrics that assess quality as opposed to accomplishment should not be used for either. gasaway's premise that seeding should use different criteria than selection is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
Explain a little more. I thought it had some merit.
wins + losses is all that should matter. it's what makes that last minute so exciting. it should be cherished, and things like "offensive efficiency" have no use in rewarding teams w/good seeds.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
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kenpom should have no use in selections or seeding. it doesn't judge what a team "accomplishes"
agree completely both selection and seeding should be based on accomplishments. metrics that assess quality as opposed to accomplishment should not be used for either. gasaway's premise that seeding should use different criteria than selection is Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
Explain a little more. I thought it had some merit.
wins + losses is all that should matter. it's what makes that last minute so exciting. it should be cherished, and things like "offensive efficiency" have no use in rewarding teams w/good seeds.
Are you saying teams are seeded now just based on wins and losses?
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
No it doesn't. It contributed to our offensive efficiency.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
BITB agrees with you, or vice versa.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
No it doesn't. It contributed to our offensive efficiency.
i live for fist pump moments as a sports fan. i'll leave the dorkstore stuff for school.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
No it doesn't. It contributed to our offensive efficiency.
i live for fist pump moments as a sports fan. i'll leave the dorkstore stuff for school.
dorkstore stuff only magnifies the fist pump moments for me.
But the same info is used for seeding as it is for selection, I think that's all Gasaway was saying. Of course, he's advocating for he and kenpom's stuff to be used; I'm not necessarily saying that. But I think adding and taking some of the human element out when it comes to seeding wouldn't hurt. Again, the tournament isn't bad by any means, even with the system that is used, but perhaps something like this could make it better.
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leave the predictor stuff for vegas, and predictions.
selections, anything of merit should be based on w's and l's and nothing else.
and no, dorkstore stuff doesn't magnify fist pump moments. it gets you through the week, but those EMAW hormones that are released after a last second lay-up...my goodness. :D
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and no, dorkstore stuff doesn't magnify fist pump moments. it gets you through the week, but those EMAW hormones that are released after a last second lay-up...my goodness. :D
Well... can't disagree with that.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
No it doesn't. It contributed to our offensive efficiency.
i live for fist pump moments as a sports fan. i'll leave the dorkstore stuff for school.
dorkstore stuff only magnifies the fist pump moments for me.
But the same info is used for seeding as it is for selection, I think that's all Gasaway was saying. Of course, he's advocating for he and kenpom's stuff to be used; I'm not necessarily saying that. But I think adding and taking some of the human element out when it comes to seeding wouldn't hurt. Again, the tournament isn't bad by any means, even with the system that is used, but perhaps something like this could make it better.
Both of those dudes are to a degree aarogant. Their systems have flaws just as the RPI does and frankly the end result isn't very much different.
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I would actually prefer that robots developed the computer ranking system used to pick/seed teams in the NCAA tournament. Humans are too emotional.
then that "fist pump" you had vs ISU, becomes worthless.
No it doesn't. It contributed to our offensive efficiency.
i live for fist pump moments as a sports fan. i'll leave the dorkstore stuff for school.
dorkstore stuff only magnifies the fist pump moments for me.
But the same info is used for seeding as it is for selection, I think that's all Gasaway was saying. Of course, he's advocating for he and kenpom's stuff to be used; I'm not necessarily saying that. But I think adding and taking some of the human element out when it comes to seeding wouldn't hurt. Again, the tournament isn't bad by any means, even with the system that is used, but perhaps something like this could make it better.
Both of those dudes are to a degree aarogant. Their systems have flaws just as the RPI does and frankly the end result isn't very much different.
No doubt. Its pretty clear both are "I"m pretty good, just ask me" kind of guys. But I do think there is merit in PPP and the four factors, none of which either of those guys came up with, they've just gotten it out there. statsheet.com uses the same stuff basically. What I appreciate is going beyond the box score, and I think there is some merit for using that (and not just RPI) for selecting and/or seeding teams.
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More games on TV... (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6107744&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_6107744)
Games will be seen on CBS, TBS, TNT and truTV, allowing organizers to spread out start times in contrast to the regional coverage offered in years past. CBS executive vice president Mike Aresco told the paper the plan is to "create nonstop basketball from noon [ET] to midnight."
:emawkid:
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More games on TV... (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/news/story?id=6107744&campaign=rss&source=twitter&ex_cid=Twitter_espn_6107744)
Games will be seen on CBS, TBS, TNT and truTV, allowing organizers to spread out start times in contrast to the regional coverage offered in years past. CBS executive vice president Mike Aresco told the paper the plan is to "create nonstop basketball from noon [ET] to midnight."
:emawkid:
christ i hope we're a part of this. :frown:
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truTV is only SD on directv. does anyone get this channel in HD?
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never thought i'd see the day i could open a beer and watch the Q@s on TruTV. Livin the dream.