goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: wes mantooth on January 29, 2011, 08:53:05 PM
-
Ok, so i knew losing Clemente would be huge, and it looks like losing Dom and even Lou hurts. But KU lost 3 guys to the draft and they look fine. We had a lot of returning talent, coaches picked us to win, so we obviously have good players, right? I mean 5 or 6 or 7 of these guys played in the Elite 8 10 months ago. So here we are and we look like dog crap. Frank hasn't put us, given the players we got back, and the players his staff recruited, in a position to get the most out of our players. How else can you explain the same guys that almost made the Final 4 last year, look like a bunch of Asbury rejects this year?
Anyone?
_Fan?
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
-
eff all of you
(serious)
-
i'm going to assume that last year was a complete fluke.
-
Self is an amazing coach.
-
Self is an amazing coach.
Obviously, see TRob thread.
-
I mean, KU is a good team. I at no point had a shed of hope for a win in this game. Obviously wasn't in the cards. But, the fact that we played like we did hurt. I'm terrified Frank is going to run Curt and we are just not a good team at all without him (relatively, we aren't a great team with him). At the end of the day it's the same L it would have been had we played them close. Going forward I'm terrified though.
-
I mean, KU is a good team. I at no point had a shed of hope for a win in this game. Obviously wasn't in the cards. But, the fact that we played like we did hurt. I'm terrified Frank is going to run Curt and we are just not a good team at all without him (relatively, we aren't a great team with him). At the end of the day it's the same L it would have been had we played them close. Going forward I'm terrified though.
OSU concerned me. CU numbed me. MU put the fear of god into me. Since then, I've just waited for the other shoe to drop every time we play.
-
I mean, KU is a good team. I at no point had a shed of hope for a win in this game. Obviously wasn't in the cards. But, the fact that we played like we did hurt. I'm terrified Frank is going to run Curt and we are just not a good team at all without him (relatively, we aren't a great team with him). At the end of the day it's the same L it would have been had we played them close. Going forward I'm terrified though.
This. I mentally prepared myself for a bad loss. I didn't even break anything while watching it, but agree since we played like such dogshit it really makes me question WTF Frank is doing
-
I mean, KU is a good team. I at no point had a shed of hope for a win in this game. Obviously wasn't in the cards. But, the fact that we played like we did hurt. I'm terrified Frank is going to run Curt and we are just not a good team at all without him (relatively, we aren't a great team with him). At the end of the day it's the same L it would have been had we played them close. Going forward I'm terrified though.
Great post, I agree, wasn't expecting to win, predicted a 15 point loss. But i thought we'd at least be in it by half. The players looked like they didn't give a crap about 2 minutes in, and it never changed. Then 95 comes in and plays with some energy, has a few good defensive plays, makes a slashing layup, then he doesn't play in the 2nd half?? WTF Frank. Never seen anyone more eradic (sp) with substitution patterns/unpatterns (not a word) than Frank.
-
I'd like to see K-State's players take up synchronized swimming for just a day, just to see if five guys can be in motion at once.
-
luv frank, luv his story, luv his passion, and think he is one helluva human being. Not impressed with his x's and o's and strategery though. :embarrassed:
-
:dubious:
-
luv frank, luv his story, luv his passion, and think he is one helluva human being. Not impressed with his x's and o's and strategery though. :embarrassed:
Sounds like a photo copy of Wooly
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
After we lost to Florida, HBBIQers we're like, "meh, we'll shoot better later." I'm definitely looking forward to that.
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
After we lost to Florida, HBBIQers we're like, "meh, we'll shoot better later." I'm definitely looking forward to that.
at least at Florida we planned good defense for a half. bet we gave up 30 points worth of layups/dunks.
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
After we lost to Florida, HBBIQers we're like, "meh, we'll shoot better later." I'm definitely looking forward to that.
I don't believe I ever said we would shoot better, but I did say we need to shoot better.
But tonight's game was similar in many ways to Florida. In the first half we missed a lot of good shots, fairly open threes, shots in the paint at the basket. Then in the 2nd half we just quit playing defense and things got out of hand. Really, comparably this game wasn't a ton worse than KU in Lawrence last year, both were bad losses that weren't very close.
Again, I go back to the games that we lost that are different than last year; at OSU, CU, and even at aTm. We should've won at least 2 of those, if not all 3, and losing those games is really the difference between this year and last, not losing to KU in Lawrence, even if it was an ugly loss.
-
Very poor recruiting in the backcourt coupled with very poor development in the frontcourt results in a terribly disappointing performance tonight.
Don't really know what else to say, hope we can grind one out Wed against the Nubbs and just try to build from there.
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
After we lost to Florida, HBBIQers we're like, "meh, we'll shoot better later." I'm definitely looking forward to that.
I don't believe I ever said we would shoot better, but I did say we need to shoot better.
But tonight's game was similar in many ways to Florida. In the first half we missed a lot of good shots, fairly open threes, shots in the paint at the basket. Then in the 2nd half we just quit playing defense and things got out of hand. Really, comparably this game wasn't a ton worse than KU in Lawrence last year, both were bad losses that weren't very close.
Again, I go back to the games that we lost that are different than last year; at OSU, CU, and even at aTm. We should've won at least 2 of those, if not all 3, and losing those games is really the difference between this year and last, not losing to KU in Lawrence, even if it was an ugly loss.
We played dominating defense against Florida in the 1st half. This game was nothing like the Florida game. This game was decided by the tipoff.
-
Very poor recruiting in the backcourt coupled with very poor development in the frontcourt results in a terribly disappointing performance tonight.
Don't really know what else to say, hope we can grind one out Wed against the Nubbs and just try to build from there.
I don't even care anymore.
-
Very poor recruiting in the backcourt coupled with very poor development in the frontcourt results in a terribly disappointing performance tonight.
Don't really know what else to say, hope we can grind one out Wed against the Nubbs and just try to build from there.
My #1 concern. This staff has not produced a big worthy of playing in the Big 12.
-
Ok, so i knew losing Clemente would be huge, and it looks like losing Dom and even Lou hurts. But KU lost 3 guys to the draft and they look fine. We had a lot of returning talent, coaches picked us to win, so we obviously have good players, right? I mean 5 or 6 or 7 of these guys played in the Elite 8 10 months ago. So here we are and we look like dog cac. Frank hasn't put us, given the players we got back, and the players his staff recruited, in a position to get the most out of our players. How else can you explain the same guys that almost made the Final 4 last year, look like a bunch of Asbury rejects this year?
Anyone?
_Fan?
Really...how original...sounds almost word for word what Vitale said in the second half...how original. But true.
-
We played dominating defense against Florida in the 1st half. This game was nothing like the Florida game. This game was decided by the tipoff.
True. I'm just saying the Florida game turned b/c we quit hitting shots about the 10 minute mark of the first half and that eventually carried over to defense. Tonight we quit hitting shots from the tip and that eventually carried over to our defense.
Defensively we actually played worse in Lawrence last year. 1.27 PPP last year vs 1.22 PPP this year, though both are pretty terrible.
-
We don't shoot the ball well - sd LBBIQ summary of primary problem
After we lost to Florida, HBBIQers we're like, "meh, we'll shoot better later." I'm definitely looking forward to that.
I don't believe I ever said we would shoot better, but I did say we need to shoot better.
But tonight's game was similar in many ways to Florida. In the first half we missed a lot of good shots, fairly open threes, shots in the paint at the basket. Then in the 2nd half we just quit playing defense and things got out of hand. Really, comparably this game wasn't a ton worse than KU in Lawrence last year, both were bad losses that weren't very close.
Again, I go back to the games that we lost that are different than last year; at OSU, CU, and even at aTm. We should've won at least 2 of those, if not all 3, and losing those games is really the difference between this year and last, not losing to KU in Lawrence, even if it was an ugly loss.
First, can you call what Wally and Jamar were doing "shots" in the paint? They looked more like throws at the backboard to me.
Secondly, we were within 4 points with 11 minutes to go last year, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'. Not the same type of games at all.
-
First, can you call what Wally and Jamar were doing "shots" in the paint? They looked more like throws at the backboard to me.
Secondly, we were within 4 points with 11 minutes to go last year, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'. Not the same type of games at all.
True, we were in the game much longer last year. Defensively overall the games were about the same, but last year we actually hit some shots. We did allow them to shoot a ridiculously high percentage this year compared to last, though both were bad.
-
First, can you call what Wally and Jamar were doing "shots" in the paint? They looked more like throws at the backboard to me.
Secondly, we were within 4 points with 11 minutes to go last year, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'. Not the same type of games at all.
True, we were in the game much longer last year. Defensively overall the games were about the same, but last year we actually hit some shots. We did allow them to shoot a ridiculously high percentage this year compared to last, though both were bad.
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
-
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
No, its not. But having really good players makes it easier to run crisp offense. We just have many more raw players and players you have to develop much more than KU does. Wally Judge is the only player on our roster that was RSCI Top 100. KU has 7. Our only choice is to win with JYC, KU can play pretty good defense, but also have great offense.
-
Maybe we should stop recruiting raw offensive players. :dunno:
-
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
No, its not. But having really good players makes it easier to run crisp offense. We just have many more raw players and players you have to develop much more than KU does. Wally Judge is the only player on our roster that was RSCI Top 100. KU has 7. Our only choice is to win with JYC, KU can play pretty good defense, but also have great offense.
I don't disagree, and I said as much. I guess the thing that bothers me is just how out of synch we always seem to be. It is clear that we aren't the team that people thought we were in the preseason but there is no reason that we should've struggled like we have so far this year. I really think that Frank has bludgeoned this team so much that it is killing them. The substitutions, the benchings, blaming players, it is Frank's job to put the team in a position to win, not the other way around. The yelling wasn't going to be effective when we were down by so much tonight, so what did Frank do? He pouted like a rough ridin' baby on the sidelines.
I'm going off topic, sorry, I am frusterated. I feel like Frank is failing this team, out of sheer hard-headedness.
-
I don't disagree, and I said as much. I guess the thing that bothers me is just how out of synch we always seem to be. It is clear that we aren't the team that people thought we were in the preseason but there is no reason that we should've struggled like we have so far this year. I really think that Frank has bludgeoned this team so much that it is killing them. The substitutions, the benchings, blaming players, it is Frank's job to put the team in a position to win, not the other way around. The yelling wasn't going to be effective when we were down by so much tonight, so what did Frank do? He pouted like a effing baby on the sidelines.
I'm going off topic, sorry, I am frusterated. I feel like Frank is failing this team, out of sheer hard-headedness.
Yeah, I can see that. No doubt, Frank has made plenty of mistakes with this team.
But again, I don't get overly frustrated after these games. I can see these coming, its the OSU and CU games that kill us and make these games worse. This team put itself in position that there is very little room for error and now they have to live with it; Frank, staff, players, and (unfortunately) fans.
-
What I don't understand is how we have traditionally done better at KU playing in zones and also agressively attacking the rim (especially when we cant hit a jumper), but neither of these seem like part of the game plan year after year. I remember stretches where we would make runs in the past and a lot of that was centered around switching to zones and KU taking 2 minutes to get back into rhythm. Drives me nuts that this did not seem to be a part of the game plan tonight.
-
First, can you call what Wally and Jamar were doing "shots" in the paint? They looked more like throws at the backboard to me.
Secondly, we were within 4 points with 11 minutes to go last year, if I'm not mistaken. Just sayin'. Not the same type of games at all.
True, we were in the game much longer last year. Defensively overall the games were about the same, but last year we actually hit some shots. We did allow them to shoot a ridiculously high percentage this year compared to last, though both were bad.
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
KU has 18.3 assists per game. (I say this because that seems to be the best stat in terms of measuring how well oiled a machine is) Must be nice.
-
:dubious:
Love when you use this.
-
MEH!
-
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
No, its not. But having really good players makes it easier to run crisp offense. We just have many more raw players and players you have to develop much more than KU does. Wally Judge is the only player on our roster that was RSCI Top 100. KU has 7. Our only choice is to win with JYC, KU can play pretty good defense, but also have great offense.
I'm not buying the talent level being the reason we can't run crisp offense, you don't have to be a 5star to set screens, seal, move without the ball etc. Hell every year you get to watch 2 or 3 mid-majors run crisp offense in the tornament with squat for talent. :jerk:
-
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
No, its not. But having really good players makes it easier to run crisp offense. We just have many more raw players and players you have to develop much more than KU does. Wally Judge is the only player on our roster that was RSCI Top 100. KU has 7. Our only choice is to win with JYC, KU can play pretty good defense, but also have great offense.
I'm not buying the talent level being the reason we can't run crisp offense, you don't have to be a 5star to set screens, seal, move without the ball etc. Hell every year you get to watch 2 or 3 mid-majors run crisp offense in the tornament with squat for talent. :jerk:
You know what ultimately makes good offense? Making shots. We had plenty of good looks at the basket in the first half while KU built their lead, we just didn't make very many of them. I'll grant that our offense doesn't have a lot of "pretty flow", but we still had plenty of decent shots and weren't just turning it over all the time. We just didn't make shots.
But we stunk just as bad on defense tonight, so it didn't really matter.
-
I think it's pretty easy to see that this "poor shooting" we've had over the last month is due, in large part, to none of the players having any confidence in this offense. It seems wholly unfamiliar to everyone and players are shocked when they have an open shot.
I admit to having a LBBIQ, but even I know that any offense that makes pressuring the ball (25 ft away from the basket) so easy is never gonna work. Especially when the idea behind the offense seems to be very small windows in the defense that require split second timing on passes.
-
I think it's pretty easy to see that this "poor shooting" we've had over the last month is due, in large part, to none of the players having any confidence in this offense. It seems wholly unfamiliar to everyone and players are shocked when they have an open shot.
I admit to having a LBBIQ, but even I know that any offense that makes pressuring the ball (25 ft away from the basket) so easy is never gonna work. Especially when the idea behind the offense seems to be very small windows in the defense that require split second timing on passes.
everyone that plays ku this year should press the hell out of them until their guards show they can handle it.
-
KU is super-efficient with the ball. Part of that is because they have great players, and the other part is that they are coached extremely well. Whenever I watch them I am amazed at how easy it seems for them to get open looks. This is one area where we have always struggled under Frank. I don't think that playing JYC style defense is mutually exclusive from running crisp offense.
No, its not. But having really good players makes it easier to run crisp offense. We just have many more raw players and players you have to develop much more than KU does. Wally Judge is the only player on our roster that was RSCI Top 100. KU has 7. Our only choice is to win with JYC, KU can play pretty good defense, but also have great offense.
Curtis Kelly was RSCI Top 100. #30 to be precise.
-
the season is pretty easy to sum up. kelly was suspended 6 games, we lost 3 of them. we win 2 of those 3 and everything is fine.
-
Backdoor cuts.