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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Basketball is hard => Topic started by: WillieWatanabe on January 22, 2011, 03:33:51 PM
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Seriously wtf??? I thought we knew how to play Defense.
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I thought we knew how to play Defense.
Oh? :confused:
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defense was really good.
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Played pretty good D for most of the game. In the last 5 mins esp. we gave them freebies and it killed our chances. Southwell was stupid, Russell was stupid, Jake was stupid... yeah, lot of dumb fouls late.
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Players insist on hacking down when trying to block shots. Southwell can't stay on the floor because multiple hacking mistakes.
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It is amazing that this team and coaching staff cannot adjust to the foul calling. Stupid.
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defense was really good.
stfu. we fouled the entire game, like always.
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defense was really good.
stfu. we fouled the entire game, like always.
yeah. we let gave them points by putting them on the line. points they would not have scored because they were shooting like crap. we went out of our way to lose this rough ridin' game.
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meh. Defense was fine. Offense was bad.
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It is amazing that this team and coaching staff cannot adjust to the foul calling. Stupid.
i get the whole playing aggressive/denying defense thing, but when the refs are calling it close we have to learn how to adjust, especially at the end of the game
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meh. Defense was fine. Offense was bad.
It was hard for aTm to score, except FTs. 86% FT rate is pretty amazing.
But when we made it a possession game the last 8-9 minutes we wasted a ton of possessions. A ton.
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meh. Defense was fine. Offense was bad.
It was hard for aTm to score, except FTs. 86% FT rate is pretty amazing.
But when we made it a possession game the last 8-9 minutes we wasted a ton of possessions. A ton.
our meltdowns after the 4 minute mark are remarkably consistent.
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meh. Defense was fine. Offense was bad.
It was hard for aTm to score, except FTs. 86% FT rate is pretty amazing.
But when we made it a possession game the last 8-9 minutes we wasted a ton of possessions. A ton.
our meltdowns after the 4 minute mark are remarkably consistent.
This one wasn't nearly as bad b/c at least we played decent defense (one possession game in the last minute) and finished the first half well. Moral victories and what not, but still.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
the six points without having to do anything but make FT's was kind of a big deal. jmo.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
the six points without having to do anything but make FT's was kind of a big deal. jmo.
Well yeah, but mainly b/c we couldn't make any shots or turned the ball over on offense. Possession games are possession games, and we are a pretty terrible possession team. I wasn't expecting to hold them scoreless the last 4 minutes of the game (2 points per minute is managable) and if you have to do that you are pretty much going to lose every time. Sometime a player has to make a play offensively, and no one would do that the last 4 minutes, really the last 8 minutes. Consider the player that made the most plays the last 5 minutes offensively was Will Spradling with a drive and lay-up and a 3 after the offensive rebound. In fact, after Jake's lay-up at the 9:44 mark to cut it to 1 (off a Sprads assist FWIW), those were the only two made shots the rest of the game until Jake's garbage 3.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
the six points without having to do anything but make FT's was kind of a big deal. jmo.
Well yeah, but mainly b/c we couldn't make any shots or turned the ball over on offense. Possession games are possession games, and we are a pretty terrible possession team. I wasn't expecting to hold them scoreless the last 4 minutes of the game (2 points per minute is managable) and if you have to do that you are pretty much going to lose every time. Sometime a player has to make a play offensively, and no one would do that the last 4 minutes, really the last 8 minutes. Consider the player that made the most plays the last 5 minutes offensively was Will Spradling with a drive and lay-up and a 3 after the offensive rebound. In fact, after Jake's lay-up at the 9:44 mark to cut it to 1 (off a Sprads assist FWIW), those were the only two made shots the rest of the game until Jake's garbage 3.
Good points. Also, I have been very frustrated with the way this team has failed to capitalize on opportunities in a game. There are numerous times when we've been playing reasonably well and the score is close, or we've established a lead, and then we simply destroy the momentum with stupid stupid plays.
Today in the 1st half we were down 20-24 and A&M had 3 straight turnovers. After the first t/o, Pullen ran downcourt and launched a hurried, contested 3 which, of course missed. On the second possession, he tried to drive to the bucket, and the defender got an easy block. Off the third t/o, Sprads traveled or threw it away, and we gave the ball back. Just an example of how we should have gained momentum and totally were unable to capitalize. It's really :chainsaw: after a while.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
the six points without having to do anything but make FT's was kind of a big deal. jmo.
Well yeah, but mainly b/c we couldn't make any shots or turned the ball over on offense. Possession games are possession games, and we are a pretty terrible possession team. I wasn't expecting to hold them scoreless the last 4 minutes of the game (2 points per minute is managable) and if you have to do that you are pretty much going to lose every time. Sometime a player has to make a play offensively, and no one would do that the last 4 minutes, really the last 8 minutes. Consider the player that made the most plays the last 5 minutes offensively was Will Spradling with a drive and lay-up and a 3 after the offensive rebound. In fact, after Jake's lay-up at the 9:44 mark to cut it to 1 (off a Sprads assist FWIW), those were the only two made shots the rest of the game until Jake's garbage 3.
so, like, ...our meltdowns after the 4 minute mark are remarkably consistent.
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The problem is Frank's first the teams used to find ways to win these almost half the time. This tom team hasn't done that. Its hard to get used to because it seems uncharacteristic based on three years of Frankball.
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probably something to get used to. the team full of players that aren't reacting at all to anything frank does is returning. and then add in a freshman pg and two mediocre bigs, one of which makes JHR look like manny dies.
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The problem is Frank's first the teams used to find ways to win these almost half the time. This tom team hasn't done that. Its hard to get used to because it seems uncharacteristic based on three years of Frankball.
So what do you think? Have the guys settled in and said, "Aw, Frank's glare ain't no big deal" and stopped taking him seriously as a coach?
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The problem is Frank's first the teams used to find ways to win these almost half the time. This tom team hasn't done that. Its hard to get used to because it seems uncharacteristic based on three years of Frankball.
So what do you think? Have the guys settled in and said, "Aw, Frank's glare ain't no big deal" and stopped taking him seriously as a coach?
first and foremost, those players aren't talented enough. after that, I think they are sick of getting frank'd in and out of the lineup and see the inconsistency in how he does it for the bullsh*t it really is.
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The problem is Frank's first the teams used to find ways to win these almost half the time. This tom team hasn't done that. Its hard to get used to because it seems uncharacteristic based on three years of Frankball.
So what do you think? Have the guys settled in and said, "Aw, Frank's glare ain't no big deal" and stopped taking him seriously as a coach?
I think this team has created a lot of its own problems. I'm not ready to give up on Frank or what will be coming back yet.
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So what do you think? Have the guys settled in and said, "Aw, Frank's glare ain't no big deal" and stopped taking him seriously as a coach?
lol. fans are hilarious.
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So what do you think? Have the guys settled in and said, "Aw, Frank's glare ain't no big deal" and stopped taking him seriously as a coach?
lol. fans are hilarious.
Yeah. Very.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
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Great melting down MIR. Excellent work.
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Great melting down MIR. Excellent work.
I saw Lacey and I trying to cheer him up during the game. No avail.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
Another "guard rotation" excuse :facepalm:. Do you realize that it does not matter who we have on the floor? After Pullen, there are the other guards. They all have equal amounts of suck.
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It is amazing that this team and coaching staff cannot adjust to the foul calling. Stupid.
i get the whole playing aggressive/denying defense thing, but when the refs are calling it close we have to learn how to adjust, especially at the end of the game
Bingo. Being able to adjust to the foul calling would go a long way with this team.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
Your point (which is clear by now) on Frank's rotation is valid. I do think this is the most "high school coach"-ish thing Frank does. Frank had the luxury as a high school coach of having ridiculous amounts of talent (whether he directly knew it or not its pretty clear his school(s) recruited) and he likely developed the habit of throwing different line-ups out there to find out who could play and send messages. Its a habit he is still trying to break, but there are other coaches who do this, though few as much as Frank. Its clear he believes that kids learn from being in actual games, and he views practicing well as a prerequisite for playing time. Part of the problem is that overall it worked very well his first 3 seasons here, but this year it is not. It is only magnified by having so many off the court issues and line-up changes to go along with his habit. I don't know how much he'll learn from it, but surely he'll see he can't do that year in and year out and develop any continuity with his players, even if he doesn't change his habit this season. (in a weird way he was probably helped by "open scholarship" b/c he had one less body to throw out there) I'm not sure its cost us a game, but I agree that there are players it is not helping, and overall is making it tough for some of the guys to get any rhythm playing in actual games.
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If we don't beat Baylor it will of been two months since we have beaten a legit team that is not during it's coach at the end of the season - hopefully frank will realize when you don't dominate the recruiting game you cannot frank around with the talent you do have
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
Your point (which is clear by now) on Frank's rotation is valid. I do think this is the most "high school coach"-ish thing Frank does. Frank had the luxury as a high school coach of having ridiculous amounts of talent (whether he directly knew it or not its pretty clear his school(s) recruited) and he likely developed the habit of throwing different line-ups out there to find out who could play and send messages. Its a habit he is still trying to break, but there are other coaches who do this, though few as much as Frank. Its clear he believes that kids learn from being in actual games, and he views practicing well as a prerequisite for playing time. Part of the problem is that overall it worked very well his first 3 seasons here, but this year it is not. It is only magnified by having so many off the court issues and line-up changes to go along with his habit. I don't know how much he'll learn from it, but surely he'll see he can't do that year in and year out and develop any continuity with his players, even if he doesn't change his habit this season. (in a weird way he was probably helped by "open scholarship" b/c he had one less body to throw out there) I'm not sure its cost us a game, but I agree that there are players it is not helping, and overall is making it tough for some of the guys to get any rhythm playing in actual games.
Huge understatement. It's been a real "WTF" year. Everything that could go wrong, has. And it's talent/coaching centered but the ATM 3 followed by the turnover on failing to properly inbounds the ball followed instantly by a dagger 3 is just a Murphy's Law sequence. And it is an unbelievable thing to endure as a fan who had high hopes. I'm just beat up by this season already.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
Your point (which is clear by now) on Frank's rotation is valid. I do think this is the most "high school coach"-ish thing Frank does. Frank had the luxury as a high school coach of having ridiculous amounts of talent (whether he directly knew it or not its pretty clear his school(s) recruited) and he likely developed the habit of throwing different line-ups out there to find out who could play and send messages. Its a habit he is still trying to break, but there are other coaches who do this, though few as much as Frank. Its clear he believes that kids learn from being in actual games, and he views practicing well as a prerequisite for playing time. Part of the problem is that overall it worked very well his first 3 seasons here, but this year it is not. It is only magnified by having so many off the court issues and line-up changes to go along with his habit. I don't know how much he'll learn from it, but surely he'll see he can't do that year in and year out and develop any continuity with his players, even if he doesn't change his habit this season. (in a weird way he was probably helped by "open scholarship" b/c he had one less body to throw out there) I'm not sure its cost us a game, but I agree that there are players it is not helping, and overall is making it tough for some of the guys to get any rhythm playing in actual games.
Huge understatement. It's been a real "WTF" year. Everything that could go wrong, has. And it's talent/coaching centered but the ATM 3 followed by the turnover on failing to properly inbounds the ball followed instantly by a dagger 3 is just a Murphy's Law sequence. And it is an unbelievable thing to endure as a fan who had high hopes. I'm just beat up by this season already.
One of the roughest parts of this season for me has been realizing that I had put high expectations on this year knowing that 11-12 was going to be marginal at best. This year's team more than likely won't make the tourney and next year without Curt or Pullen the chances go down considerably. This season was supposed to tide me over for the coming 11-12 drought.
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If we don't beat Baylor...
pffft.
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our defense the last 4 minutes consisted of fouling. In the last 4 minutes, I think A&M scored 15 points, 13 of which were from FT's.
4:00 min mark to the 1:00 min mark aTm scored 6 points, 4 on FTs. It was the last min that they scored 9 after we had to foul.
We had to foul the last minute because Frank Franked up the guard rotation again and put a guard in the game, with 59 seconds left down 2, on a defensive possession who barely played in the second half and he committed a stupid foul because he was not in the flow of the game.
Your point (which is clear by now) on Frank's rotation is valid. I do think this is the most "high school coach"-ish thing Frank does. Frank had the luxury as a high school coach of having ridiculous amounts of talent (whether he directly knew it or not its pretty clear his school(s) recruited) and he likely developed the habit of throwing different line-ups out there to find out who could play and send messages. Its a habit he is still trying to break, but there are other coaches who do this, though few as much as Frank. Its clear he believes that kids learn from being in actual games, and he views practicing well as a prerequisite for playing time. Part of the problem is that overall it worked very well his first 3 seasons here, but this year it is not. It is only magnified by having so many off the court issues and line-up changes to go along with his habit. I don't know how much he'll learn from it, but surely he'll see he can't do that year in and year out and develop any continuity with his players, even if he doesn't change his habit this season. (in a weird way he was probably helped by "open scholarship" b/c he had one less body to throw out there) I'm not sure its cost us a game, but I agree that there are players it is not helping, and overall is making it tough for some of the guys to get any rhythm playing in actual games.
That's just it, the thing about Russell at the end of the game wasn't about proving a point, there was no point to prove then. I think Frank & the staff panicked then, there was no reason to put Nick in at that defensive dead ball, it's indefensible. I bet this was a talking point with the staff when they reviewed this game. If he was doing his thing when he was proving a point it would haver been dumb but at least there would have been a purpose. There was no reasoning that decision.
I'm also not happy that Frank hasn't shouldered the blame for his no leadership telling point. He's the person giving up on players he recruited. Frank is the only person to blame for there being 2 seniors on the roster.
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Interestingly, FTR has absolutely zero effect on our defensive efficiency. And this 5 game stretch has featured some ridiculously bad offense. Far worse than any stretch since Martin has been here.
from kenpom (http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Kansas%20St.)
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Interestingly, FTR has absolutely zero effect on our defensive efficiency. And this 5 game stretch has featured some ridiculously bad offense. Far worse than any stretch since Martin has been here.
http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Kansas%20St.
new offense :emawkid:
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Interestingly, FTR has absolutely zero effect on our defensive efficiency. And this 5 game stretch has featured some ridiculously bad offense. Far worse than any stretch since Martin has been here.
http://kenpom.com/gameplan.php?team=Kansas%20St.
Yikes.
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never mind. I read that wrong. what an idiot.
Still, interesting to see how much defensive rebounding affects our offense.
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No empirical data to back this up, but it seemed to me Frank shortened the bench in the 2nd half. Considering the garbage play we've been getting out of most guys on the team why not play a lot of guys in the 1st half, then go with a shorter bench in the 2nd? We were tied at half with Frank playing 12 guys in a place where road teams just do not win. Frank is not the problem here.
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No empirical data to back this up, but it seemed to me Frank shortened the bench in the 2nd half. Considering the garbage play we've been getting out of most guys on the team why not play a lot of guys in the 1st half, then go with a shorter bench in the 2nd? We were tied at half with Frank playing 12 guys in a place where road teams just do not win. Frank is not the problem here.
No, you are right. 4 guys played at least 17 minutes in the 2nd half and Pullen played all 20.
http://www.kstatesports.com/sports/m-baskbl/stats/2010-2011/ksgame21.html (scroll down for per half boxes)