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TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: chum1 on November 25, 2017, 05:02:11 PM
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Foolish penalty at critical time in game. Just terrible.
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he was acting like a head coach, because he is a head coach.
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He's a raving lunatic. Not fit for Kansas State
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he just needs an assistant to hold him off the sidelines
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It's called motivation
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whether you credit motivation or ref behavior modification, there is no question that kstate loses by double digits without sean's display of spirit.
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I'm glad.one of our coaches acted alive on the sideline...i loved it.
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I liked it. He gained points with me for the zeal.
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He was fired up fighting for his team.
PS - Did anyone see the block? Was it a hold or a BS call?
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He was fired up fighting for his team.
PS - Did anyone see the block? Was it a hold or a BS call?
It was a clear hold a long way from the play
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He was fired up fighting for his team.
PS - Did anyone see the block? Was it a hold or a BS call?
It was a clear hold a long way from the play
It wasn't a hold and neither was the first one called on Chase. Both were crap calls and i loved Sean going off on the refs...and i do think it helped us out in multiple ways.
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He was fired up fighting for his team.
PS - Did anyone see the block? Was it a hold or a BS call?
It was a clear hold a long way from the play
Oh, hogshit. That was nowhere even close to a holding because the defender fell down and brought his blocker down, which made it look like a hold.
I'm not advocating for Sean's position for HC, but that got some points for me, and ironically, the team played much better after that outburst.
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you guys must be looking at a different player
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you guys must be looking at a different player
Both plays were basically exactly the same. In both the player fell down and took Chase with him. Neither were holding
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Sean going rough ridin' bonkers made me like Sean a little bit more today. I’m confused.
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What are you guys saying? That Iowa State baited Sean into the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty? Wouldn't that also mean that he is unfit to be head coach?
SEAN = UNFIT
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He was saying tons of very bad words. Pretty badass?
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Is football like shitty basketball where the coach gets a T to get his team’s crap going? Maybe. Evidence points to yes actually.
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I do love bill, but my goodness it was nice to see a coach on our sideline with some passion
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If i could figure out how to post a rough ridin' gif or video i could show everyone the block in question
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you guys must be looking at a different player
Both plays were basically exactly the same. In both the player fell down and took Chase with him. Neither were holding
yeah I thought #41 held and not #13 on the play that led to the flag
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WGAF nerds
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WGAF nerds
http://www.espn.com/watch/player?id=3231551
It's at 2:26:00
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I don't see how you could conclude from the video that #13 didn't hold.
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What are you guys saying? That Iowa State baited Sean into the unsportsmanlike conduct penalty? Wouldn't that also mean that he is unfit to be head coach?
SEAN = UNFIT
yeah, we're all mumped up now. for example: i think i want sean as head coach, believe in god, and will vote trump in 2020.
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Dumb move
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I don't see how you could conclude from the video that #13 didn't hold.
It's easy if you're a huge homer.
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Dumb move
irony, bruh. irony.
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Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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I hope someone can gif that. That is going to be a gem and a rarity from a Snyder coached staff.
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As gE's primary Sean Snyderite I'm happy he was whippin ref ass.
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As gE's primary Sean Snyderite.
ahem, no.
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I'm coming around on Sean. Maybe we should give him a chance. Plus he's like 48. And doesn't look like a skeleton.
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https://twitter.com/catfan28/status/934559797906739200
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https://twitter.com/CarlsonSwede/status/934606118231388161
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I’d be okay with Sean if if he gets rid of Dimel and I wouldn’t hate to see him bring in Bielma as DC.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://twitter.com/CarlsonSwede/status/934606118231388161
:love:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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https://twitter.com/CarlsonSwede/status/934624886428962816
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I literally LOL'ed in real life on that Ref's little flare when he switched off the mic, as well as Sean's paper waving at the end.
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Sometimes a good special teams coach make a good HC. I liked his snorting fire tantrum. He has spunk.
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Sometimes a good special teams coach make a good HC. I liked his snorting fire tantrum. He has spunk.
LOL I think a lot of people will seriously think Sean is head coach material based on "fire" shown in this moment even though it did nothing but hurt us. Did anyone ask Bill about it?
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Sean going rough ridin' bonkers made me like Sean a little bit more today. I’m confused.
Me too
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I literally LOL'ed in real life on that Ref's little flare when he switched off the mic, as well as Sean's paper waving at the end.
Even though the game looked hopeless at this point, I really enjoyed the entire series. And I was also going to comment on the ref's sassy mic drop there.
Still, it is hard to conclude that Sean getting in the refs' heads did not lead to the 2-3 picked up flags at the end there. I'm not sure I have ever seen that before in a Cats game.
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Sean is the same age Bill was when we hired him. What if we can recapture that lightning?
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I literally LOL'ed in real life on that Ref's little flare when he switched off the mic, as well as Sean's paper waving at the end.
Even though the game looked hopeless at this point, I really enjoyed the entire series. And I was also going to comment on the ref's sassy mic drop there.
Still, it is hard to conclude that Sean getting in the refs' heads did not lead to the 2-3 picked up flags at the end there. I'm not sure I have ever seen that before in a Cats game.
The late hit/targeting flag should have never been thrown, that was outrageous
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Sean is the same age Bill was when we hired him. What if we can recapture that lightning?
Who would be his Venables, Stoops, Mangino, Leavitt, etc?
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Still, it is hard to conclude that Sean getting in the refs' heads did not lead to the 2-3 picked up flags at the end there. I'm not sure I have ever seen that before in a Cats game.
lol you people are crazy
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Sean is the same age Bill was when we hired him. What if we can recapture that lightning?
Who would be his Venables, Stoops, Mangino, Leavitt, etc?
Great question
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Stoops and mangino are available. As well as Bert and Bennett after the last round of firings. (Arkansas and Arizona St.). :dunno:
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Didn't mangino get fired from Iowa state?
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Didn't mangino get fired from Iowa state?
Yes, by Paul Rhoades, who was also fired a month later.
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Sean is the same age Bill was when we hired him. What if we can recapture that lightning?
Bill had spent several years coaching at several places in California and Texas, then spent a decade as OC at Iowa prior to becoming HC at KSU. Sean has spent about 20 years as director of football operations at KSU, and the last six years or so as special teams coordinator. In order to recapture his dad's lightning, Sean would need to gain a ton of experience overnight without actually doing the kinds of things required to gain that experience.
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Didn't mangino get fired from Iowa state?
Yes, he was an absolute disaster. I would be 100% out on any staff with Mark Mangino as anything but an adviser or something. Dude has been sitting on a beach tweeting for two years.
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he was literally bred for this. we'd have a thoroughbred racing against hill ponies.
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Didn't mangino get fired from Iowa state?
Yes, he was an absolute disaster. I would be 100% out on any staff with Mark Mangino as anything but an adviser or something. Dude has been sitting on a beach tweeting for two years.
I don't care what you have to say about him, Mangino looks like an absolute god among men for being able to get a winning season out of KU.
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Yeah, I like a coach who GAF and has passion. Seems like this fanbase liked that for a long time in the other sport. Nothing to see here minus Sean grabbing me by the balls and taint. :love:
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I do enjoy the idea I've read elsewhere that Sean should replace Dimel as OC after this season. :lol:
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I think maybe it was Tech game where I saw Sean lay into a guy right after a good punt return for not running up field and finding someone to block. Sean is extremely technique and "play to the whistle" driven, which is why we have had so much success in Special Teams. I can't say he knows offense very well, but I would love to see him in an OC seat for a year. If Bill stays another year, I hope this happens.
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IMO Sean as OC would be a disaster. Every former player I've ever talked to has said his football knowledge is suspect outside of special teams. He would have to have a group of great position coaches and frankly those guys would have to call much of the offense.
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It's hard to believe he's spent his whole football career with Bill and not learned anything about the game.
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It's hard to believe he's spent his whole football career with Bill and not learned anything about the game.
First, his focus has always been special teams and specialty positions, plus all of the administrative stuff. Certainly he's learned some things about offense/defense, but he has never focused on an offensive or defensive position, let along entire schemes. Second, a large part of my opinion on this largely is based on what I've been told by several former players.
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I'd like to know why Bill truly believes Sean is fit for the job
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It's hard to believe he's spent his whole football career with Bill and not learned anything about the game.
First, his focus has always been special teams and specialty positions, plus all of the administrative stuff. Certainly he's learned some things about offense/defense, but he has never focused on an offensive or defensive position, let along entire schemes. Second, a large part of my opinion on this largely is based on what I've been told by several former players.
Sean could not be worse than Dimel. Our current offense is devoid of the creativity seen in offenses around the country, and i'm not talking about no-huddle, throw it all over the field stuff. Our offense is stale and predictable and i would be shocked if Bill was not aware of it. I'm sure Sean reminds him every Sunday.
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I do enjoy the idea I've read elsewhere that Sean should replace Dimel as OC after this season. :lol:
I wouldn’t be excited about it, but this is obviously what Bill should have done years ago if he was serious about Sean taking over. Maybe he already tried and Sean just said no thanks.
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He might be more qualified to be KSU's HC than its OC.
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He might be more qualified to be KSU's HC than its OC.
In terms of CEO style, I can see that.
But in terms of the normal route (i.e. GA, position coach, and offensive/defense coordinator position), he doesn't meet the basic criteria.
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Stoops and mangino are available. As well as Bert and Bennett after the last round of firings. (Arkansas and Arizona St.). :dunno:
You (and a couple of others apparently) missed my point. HCBS brought with him or hired people he knew to fill critical positions here at KSU. Who are those same types of people that Sean would know or could bring in? Almost his entire "coaching" life has been in and around KSU. IMO, his ability to hire the same caliber of people that his dad did when he arrived here, is severely limited. So again, unless he's willing to basically, not totally, work with what's left to him, he'll be handicapped from the outset. Not something I'd like to see. For him but more importantly for us.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
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He might be more qualified to be KSU's HC than its OC.
In terms of CEO style, I can see that.
But in terms of the normal route (i.e. GA, position coach, and offensive/defense coordinator position), he doesn't meet the basic criteria.
We're not talking about normal here.
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He might be more qualified to be KSU's HC than its OC.
In terms of CEO style, I can see that.
But in terms of the normal route (i.e. GA, position coach, and offensive/defense coordinator position), he doesn't meet the basic criteria.
We're not talking about normal here.
"Abby Normal" Greatest comedy ever! Might actually more applicable than we'd like to admit.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
This.
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He might be more qualified to be KSU's HC than its OC.
In terms of CEO style, I can see that.
But in terms of the normal route (i.e. GA, position coach, and offensive/defense coordinator position), he doesn't meet the basic criteria.
We're not talking about normal here.
I'm aware, but I was just giving my thoughts. I'm just more concerned about his ability to have a solid staff. Do I have confidence he will? Probably not.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.
:D
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.
That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.
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Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.
That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.
well you either aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic. I wouldn't have a solid idea of who would come with ANY coach in the country - that doesn't mean that Sean is just as prepared to build a quality staff as any other coach in the country.
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Sean would need to assemble a solid staff. I do not believe he could do that. I need to believe he could before I would support the hire in anyway.
I don't understand why people isolate this to just Sean, this is the case for anyone who takes this job. None of the usually mentioned potential candidates are coming with a staff. Sean, Venables, and the Muppet are all coming with serious warts and they're going to have to grind a little bit to put together a staff.
to be fair, you aren't trying very hard to understand why people think it's a bigger issue with Sean than others.
That's bullshit. I've acknowledged that people think he would have a harder time because he's never left, I've never denied that. I then ask who Venables is bringing with him and there is no answer. That's because like Sean, Brent will need to build the staff, he isn't a head coach, he never has been. When he leaves Clemson the perceived best guy for the DC position will likely replace him.
well you either aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic. I wouldn't have a solid idea of who would come with ANY coach in the country - that doesn't mean that Sean is just as prepared to build a quality staff as any other coach in the country.
I never once said this, not one damn time. Either you aren't trying very hard or are pretty terrible at logic.
Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.
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Plus, you know that TONS of prospective assistant coaches will want NOTHING to do with Sean after his Iowa State game sideline antics.
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Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.
Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.
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Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent. I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'
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Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.
Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.
Acknowledging that Brent definitely has a bigger circle of peers, I think they both essentially have the same plight, they will have to want to have coordinators who want to be a DC/OC at Kansas State instead of wanting to work for Brent or Sean or anyone else who has never been a head coach before.
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Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent. I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'
The one or two times Bill has expanded on this topic this has been his point. The conversation has been hijacked with stupid crap like nepotism and "Bill will just stay until they have to take Sean."
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Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent. I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'
That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.
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Plus, you know that TONS of prospective assistant coaches will want NOTHING to do with Sean after his Iowa State game sideline antics.
Not sure this is true. Agree with it or not, Sean was visibly standing up for his players and team. If you watch at least some of the video, HCBS was standing there watching and wasn't making a single move to intercede or tell him to calm down. Implicitly, he agreed with his son's behavior. I'm guessing that as long as he doesn't do anything remotely similar to his subordinates, any assistants considering coming to work for him would have no problems with Sat.
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ron prince assembled an amazing staff and he came from nowhere
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Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent. I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'
That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.
sean will have one coach on his staff that brent won’t and his name is bill. could complicate things for sean
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ron prince assembled an amazing staff and he came from nowhere
Initially, he did. He couldn't follow up though after the OC and DC left.
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Assuming you believe a head coach is more of a CEO than a day to day "coach", a case could easily be made that Sean is much more qualified than Brent. I'm not advocating one way or another, just sayin'
That's a good thought. Plus, both the OC and DC coming to work for Sean would know that they will likely have a ton of autonomy in their role.
There's a scenario. Sean gets the HC position, fires Dimel (among others) and hires his Dad as the OC.
sean will have one coach on his staff that brent won’t and his name is bill. could complicate things for sean
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Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.
Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.
I (maybe ignorantly) have always kind of looked at Kirby Smart and Venzy as the same situations. Kirby brought in an OC with 30+ years of coaching experience to Georgia and brought a young up and comer along with him from Bama as his DC. I could see Brent doing something similar (maybe young offensive position guy from Clemson as OC, and a veteran DC).
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Oops, Mel Tucker (Smart's DC) has a shitload of experience. Not a "young-up-and-comer" at all.
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Venables will earn a job because he's been a top defensive coordinator for years. He's worked at two top tier programs that won national titles while he worked there. Both programs he has worked for rotate in young staff much more frequently than K-State/Snyder has done, especially during 2.0. He won't have the perception (real or not) that he just got the job because his dad was a legendary head coach at the school that hired him.
Haven't argued against this either. As a matter of fact I've said this is THE argument for Brent. That doesn't mean he's coming here with some hotshot staff in tow.
Oh, I'm agreeing with you. There is no guarantee Brent brings a great staff, but its much more likely he'd attract better coordinators/assistants than Sean IMO.
Acknowledging that Brent definitely has a bigger circle of peers, I think they both essentially have the same plight, they will have to want to have coordinators who want to be a DC/OC at Kansas State instead of wanting to work for Brent or Sean or anyone else who has never been a head coach before.
again, how would that be different from any other coach in the country? Even former head coaches in KSU's wheelhouse would be similar.
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https://twitter.com/Prehmmr247/status/935240347306795008
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All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires. He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections. The nepotism look may scare some hires away. If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise. Wouldn't be worried about defense. With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams.
Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways. Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach. Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.
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LOL to anyone that thinks there is any remote chance we bring Brent in. I would literally put it at 0%, especially after the Leavitt news.
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The nepotism look may scare some hires away. If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise. Wouldn't be worried about defense. With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams.
Agreed. One thing that does make me feel a little better about that with Brent, at both of his stops, those programs have had top 10-20 offenses damn near every year. Hopefully he has built relationships with many of those offensive coaches throughout his years at OU and Clemson, and could bring one/some of them in, or at least go to them for referrals.
I would support that and really be interested in who he could get.
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All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires. He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections. The nepotism look may scare some hires away. If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise. Wouldn't be worried about defense. With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams.
Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways. Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach. Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think "qualifies" someone to be a HC? Success as a coordinator? Being an assistant head coach? Jumping from job to job thereby expanding your "circle"? Honest question here.
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https://twitter.com/Prehmmr247/status/935240347306795008
Leavitt's defensive improvement for Oregon this season based on the S&P+. :surprised:
(http://goEMAW.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/Oregon-D-Improvement.png)
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Sounds like a great hire for a DC.
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would anyone expect his defense to have gotten worse yoy?
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All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires. He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections. The nepotism look may scare some hires away. If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise. Wouldn't be worried about defense. With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams.
Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways. Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach. Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think "qualifies" someone to be a HC? Success as a coordinator? Being an assistant head coach? Jumping from job to job thereby expanding your "circle"? Honest question here.
You don’t have to jump from job to job a lot but you do have to work for someone other than your dad and Ron Prince.
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All the reasons others have said re: Sean coaching hires. He doesn't have experience outside of the program to make a lot of connections. The nepotism look may scare some hires away. If we hired Venables for example, I would be most interested in his OC hire as that is not his expertise. Wouldn't be worried about defense. With Sean, I would worry about offense and defense but not special teams.
Maybe the biggest thing unsaid in this thread is that Sean isn't particularly qualified for the job anyways. Assembling his staff would be his first major decisions as head coach. Already being on the fence, I would want to see a lot of success there to convince me that he is the best coach for the job and not the coach I fear he is.
Just out of curiosity, what do you think "qualifies" someone to be a HC? Success as a coordinator? Being an assistant head coach? Jumping from job to job thereby expanding your "circle"? Honest question here.
You don’t have to jump from job to job a lot but you do have to work for someone other than your dad and Ron Prince.
So just to clarify, you are saying Sean is not particularly qualified because the only person he's coached under is 20+ years under one of the best college coaches of all time? Or because he's related to said coach?
This is what drives me a little crazy, and i'm not advocating for Sean here...quite honestly i threw up in my mouth the first time him taking over was mentioned...but if a person worked as a very successful coordinator and assistant head coach for Nick Saban or Urban Meyer for 25 years, i can't imagine a person on earth would say they weren't qualified to be a head coach.
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Name me the Special Teams coordinator for Saban or Meyer that immediately got a HC job.
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Name me the Special Teams coordinator for Saban or Meyer that immediately got a HC job.
Now we are getting somewhere. You are saying he isn't qualified because he was the ST coordinator....vs OC or DC i would assume? So if his name was still Sean Snyder and he'd been a very successful OC for the fighting wildcats for the past 10 years, you would then say he was qualified to be a (our) HC?
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I love Bill but get out of here with the Saban / Meyer comparisons.
He's more comparable to Frank Beamer or Barry Alvarez and that's being slightly generous.
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Sean hasn't coached 20+ years.
Also Dabo Swinney wasn't an offensive or defensive coordinator!!!
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I love Bill but get out of here with the Saban / Meyer comparisons.
He's more comparable to Frank Beamer or Barry Alvarez and that's being slightly generous.
I am assuming you are too young to appreciate the magnitude of what Bill accomplished. It's arguably much more than Saban and Meyer combined. The fact that you would compare his accomplishments to Beamer and Alvarez "being generous" tells me all i need to know. I'm not going to win this argument so i will tap out. My whole point was why people don't think Sean is qualified. Again, i'm not saying i want him as our HC but i struggle to make an argument that BV is qualified but SS is not.
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arguing for BV over SS is like the easiest thing in the world, unless you think all coaches with no HC experience are equal.
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Sean would be more qualified as an OC/DC. I would still prefer he coach somewhere else. It’s not just about making connections with other potential staff members, but learning from different coaching philosophies. In any career people generally benefit from switching jobs and learning from different mentors.
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Name me the Special Teams coordinator for Saban or Meyer that immediately got a HC job.
Honestly I don’t know the names of any coordinators (other than ours) until they are mentioned as a HC candidate.
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arguing for BV over SS is like the easiest thing in the world, unless you think all coaches with no HC experience are equal.
I'm all ears. Also, why is BV still a coordinator? That's always bothered me. I employed his brother in law at a company i invested in but he seemed as mystified as myself. Given his success, you'd think he'd have taken a HC job assuming he was offered.
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arguing for BV over SS is like the easiest thing in the world, unless you think all coaches with no HC experience are equal.
I'm all ears. Also, why is BV still a coordinator? That's always bothered me. I employed his brother in law at a company i invested in but he seemed as mystified as myself. Given his success, you'd think he'd have taken a HC job assuming he was offered.
well to start BV's been a DC at two places that won national titles. He's also an elite recruiter (even accounting for the fact that he's been at Clemson and OU): https://n.rivals.com/news/venables-named-rivals-recruiter-of-the-year
l don't really think I need to add much more. :dunno:
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what Bill accomplished. It's arguably much more than Saban and Meyer combined.
my god.
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
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Fit for the UT VOLS Jobe if you ask me. Perfect fit.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk
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Currie doesn't deserve him, Greg.
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
The nail was hit on the head earlier. A special teams coordinator, hell, even Saban's or Meyer's special teams coordinator, should not be promoted to head coach. While he's done a great job, Sean hasn't proven anything except that he can do some good things with a return game. Tim Tibesar did some good things with the return game, then immediately flopped when he was promoted to a position with more responsibility.
I want someone who has had success at managing a unit that's on the field more than 10 times a game.
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Bill's whole contention is that Sean has been running the show since the '15 season. We have underwhelmed since then. So when we get Sean, and Bill is gone and out of the picture, we are going to be even more underwhelming. Which brings up the question when we fire Sean do we remove "Family" from the stadium name.
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I appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done just fine.
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I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
Feel free to stop.
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
The nail was hit on the head earlier. A special teams coordinator, hell, even Saban's or Meyer's special teams coordinator, should not be promoted to head coach. While he's done a great job, Sean hasn't proven anything except that he can do some good things with a return game. Tim Tibesar did some good things with the return game, then immediately flopped when he was promoted to a position with more responsibility.
I want someone who has had success at managing a unit that's on the field more than 10 times a game.
Jesus Christ, this. How do so many of our tuckiest fans not realize that being a successful Special Teams OC is undoubtedly WAAAAAAY easier -- and carries significantly less weight -- than being a successful OC or DC?
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
The nail was hit on the head earlier. A special teams coordinator, hell, even Saban's or Meyer's special teams coordinator, should not be promoted to head coach. While he's done a great job, Sean hasn't proven anything except that he can do some good things with a return game. Tim Tibesar did some good things with the return game, then immediately flopped when he was promoted to a position with more responsibility.
I want someone who has had success at managing a unit that's on the field more than 10 times a game.
Jesus Christ, this. How do so many of our tuckiest fans not realize that being a successful Special Teams OC is undoubtedly WAAAAAAY easier -- and carries significantly less weight -- than being a successful OC or DC?
Well the discussion isn't necessarily which job is "easier"...my question was what qualifies a person to be a "good" head coach/head coach hire? Is it your position that to be a good head coach a person has to have been a successful OC or DC? Does being an "assistant head coach" carry any weight? Director of football operations? recruiting coordinator? or is it just being a successful OC or DC?
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
The nail was hit on the head earlier. A special teams coordinator, hell, even Saban's or Meyer's special teams coordinator, should not be promoted to head coach. While he's done a great job, Sean hasn't proven anything except that he can do some good things with a return game. Tim Tibesar did some good things with the return game, then immediately flopped when he was promoted to a position with more responsibility.
I want someone who has had success at managing a unit that's on the field more than 10 times a game.
Jesus Christ, this. How do so many of our tuckiest fans not realize that being a successful Special Teams OC is undoubtedly WAAAAAAY easier -- and carries significantly less weight -- than being a successful OC or DC?
Well the discussion isn't necessarily which job is "easier"...my question was what qualifies a person to be a "good" head coach/head coach hire? Is it your position that to be a good head coach a person has to have been a successful OC or DC? Does being an "assistant head coach" carry any weight? Director of football operations? recruiting coordinator? or is it just being a successful OC or DC?
Yes. Being at least a DC or OC is requisite experience.
Being an "assistant head coach" carries zero accountability. Nobody has ever called for the "Assistant head coach" or "director of football operations" to be fired or receive a raise because nobody cares about them. Coordinate an important unit, put your balls on the line, and prove your worth. Sean has had the chance to prove himself in a position of accountability at any time over the last 20 years. He hasn't done that.
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Thank God this thread has 124 replies.
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Thank God this thread has 124 replies.
125
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a lot of the posts in this thread are from people who disagree with the thread’s premise. essentially those posts belong to my thread.
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a lot of the posts in this thread are from people who disagree with the thread’s premise. essentially those posts belong to my thread.
:emawkid:
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(https://www.army.mil/e2/c/images/2015/03/30/387626/size0.jpg)
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pretty cool that our coffee pots all have purple handles
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That legendary Snyder attention to details on full display.
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NICE STYROFOAM CUPS SEAN!
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Sean hates the environment :(
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But he can write his name in the side with his fingernail so he knows which one is his.
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Are there any good head coaches that were neither an OC or DC before they became a head coach, besides Dabo Swinney and Urban Meyer?
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Fun fact:
Urban Meyer has never won less than 8 games in a season over his entire career.
Iowa State has only won 8 or more games 7 times in its existence.
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Are there any good head coaches that were neither an OC or DC before they became a head coach, besides Dabo Swinney and Urban Meyer?
This is a great post
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Define "good".
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Are there any good head coaches that were neither an OC or DC before they became a head coach, besides Dabo Swinney and Urban Meyer?
P.J. Fleck :dunno:
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Are there any good head coaches that were neither an OC or DC before they became a head coach, besides Dabo Swinney and Urban Meyer?
P.J. Fleck :dunno:
I think it's obvious that it's best to hire WR coaches, but non-OCs or DCs work pretty well too.
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Wasn't beatty a wr coach???
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Wasn't beatty a wr coach???
He had been a coordinator
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Jim and john Harbaugh.
Interestingly john was a special teams coordinator for nearly 20 years before being named head coach of the ravens
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I appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done just fine.
include spawning sean in your calculations.
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Jim Tressel and Art Briles
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Jim and john Harbaugh.
Interestingly john was a special teams coordinator for nearly 20 years before being named head coach of the ravens
Jim Tressel and Art Briles
There are a lot of shitty coaches without coordinator experience, those guys don't know crap about football.
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I just want Bill to leave and we quickly hire someone so this incredibly worn out debate can finally end. I think I've now reached my limit of reading, typing, and saying the same crap repackaged 75 different ways.
I've not had the debate so this is all new to me. It's a very difficult debate to have with persons that don't appreciate the magnitude of what Bill has done here at KState. I can understand now why there are so many posters on goEMAW that castigate him. He's not above questioning but he's close :)
The nail was hit on the head earlier. A special teams coordinator, hell, even Saban's or Meyer's special teams coordinator, should not be promoted to head coach. While he's done a great job, Sean hasn't proven anything except that he can do some good things with a return game. Tim Tibesar did some good things with the return game, then immediately flopped when he was promoted to a position with more responsibility.
I want someone who has had success at managing a unit that's on the field more than 10 times a game.
Jesus Christ, this. How do so many of our tuckiest fans not realize that being a successful Special Teams OC is undoubtedly WAAAAAAY easier -- and carries significantly less weight -- than being a successful OC or DC?
I didn't even know you were a football coach, learn something new everyday.
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Jim and john Harbaugh.
Interestingly john was a special teams coordinator for nearly 20 years before being named head coach of the ravens
Jim Tressel and Art Briles
There are a lot of shitty coaches without coordinator experience, those guys don't know crap about football.
Yes I’m simply trying to understand whether being an OC or DC is a prerequisite to quality head coaching
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Jim and john Harbaugh.
Interestingly john was a special teams coordinator for nearly 20 years before being named head coach of the ravens
Jim Tressel and Art Briles
There are a lot of shitty coaches without coordinator experience, those guys don't know crap about football.
Yes I’m simply trying to understand whether being an OC or DC is a prerequisite to quality head coaching
Clearly.
Harbaugh f2f
Dabo
Tressel
Briles
That's like a hall of trash coaches. Clearly calling plays is the magic elixir.
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When I think "head coach material" I instantly think of Defensive Coordinator Tim Tibesar.
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Mike Stoops was one of the best head coaches I've ever seen.
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Defensive Coordinator Jerry Sandusky, leader of men.
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Year Coach School
1996 Mickey Andrews Florida State
1997 Jim Herrmann Michigan
1998 David Cutcliffe Tennessee
1999 Ralph Friedgen Georgia Tech
2000 Mark Mangino Oklahoma
2001 Randy Shannon Miami (FL)
2002 Norm Chow Southern California
2003 Brian VanGorder Georgia
2004 Gene Chizik Auburn
2005 Greg Davis Texas
2006 Bud Foster Virginia Tech
2007 Jim Heacock Ohio State
2008 Kevin Wilson Oklahoma
2009 Kirby Smart Alabama
2010 Gus Malzahn Auburn
2011 John Chavis LSU
2012 Bob Diaco Notre Dame
2013 Pat Narduzzi Michigan State
2014 Tom Herman Ohio State
2015 Lincoln Riley Oklahoma
2016 Brent Venables Clemson
Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming
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Year Coach School
1996 Mickey Andrews Florida State
1997 Jim Herrmann Michigan
1998 David Cutcliffe Tennessee
1999 Ralph Friedgen Georgia Tech
2000 Mark Mangino Oklahoma
2001 Randy Shannon Miami (FL)
2002 Norm Chow Southern California
2003 Brian VanGorder Georgia
2004 Gene Chizik Auburn
2005 Greg Davis Texas
2006 Bud Foster Virginia Tech
2007 Jim Heacock Ohio State
2008 Kevin Wilson Oklahoma
2009 Kirby Smart Alabama
2010 Gus Malzahn Auburn
2011 John Chavis LSU
2012 Bob Diaco Notre Dame
2013 Pat Narduzzi Michigan State
2014 Tom Herman Ohio State
2015 Lincoln Riley Oklahoma
2016 Brent Venables Clemson
Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming
This is such a stupid point you’re trying to make. You’re going to find a bunch of dogshit head coaches that called plays at one point since there’s been like 1000 of them. You can’t just highlight 5 guys who had success without that background and act like that’s a fair comparison.
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Also Dabo is the only one on your list to make the jump at P5 school. Everyone else took their first HC job somewhere in the G5. Dabo also started with an interim tag. If Sean is HC material do what the others did and go after a HC job and win for 2-3 years at Rice or somewhere and show it
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Year Coach School
1996 Mickey Andrews Florida State
1997 Jim Herrmann Michigan
1998 David Cutcliffe Tennessee
1999 Ralph Friedgen Georgia Tech
2000 Mark Mangino Oklahoma
2001 Randy Shannon Miami (FL)
2002 Norm Chow Southern California
2003 Brian VanGorder Georgia
2004 Gene Chizik Auburn
2005 Greg Davis Texas
2006 Bud Foster Virginia Tech
2007 Jim Heacock Ohio State
2008 Kevin Wilson Oklahoma
2009 Kirby Smart Alabama
2010 Gus Malzahn Auburn
2011 John Chavis LSU
2012 Bob Diaco Notre Dame
2013 Pat Narduzzi Michigan State
2014 Tom Herman Ohio State
2015 Lincoln Riley Oklahoma
2016 Brent Venables Clemson
Look at this long distinguished list of successful head coaches, blown away at the number of conference champions as head coaches on this list, it's overwhelming
You’re going to find a bunch of dogshit head coaches that called plays at one point since there’s been like 1000 of them.
Cool, we agree :cheers:
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You guys raise fair points by listing off the five or so coaches you named without coordinator experience, but each of those guys (except for Dabo) had head coaching experience before taking over a P5 school.
I'm fine hiring a successful HC that didn't have coordinator experience prior to being headcoach. If Ball State or Youngstown or Houston or whatever want to take a chance on a position coach or ST coordinator, let them run that experiment.
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When I think "head coach material" I instantly think of Defensive Coordinator Tim Tibesar.
But this is kind of the exact point I'm making.
Our special teams were GREAT in 2006. Then Tibesar was given a role that required more responsibility, and he was completely exposed.
I'm not saying that having an OC or DC title attached to your resume is all the experience I want -- I'm saying I want a coach to have that experience so I can have some idea whether or not they're capable of managing one side of the team at a high level.
Tibesar obviously failed his test. Sean hasn't even sat for it.
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You guys raise fair points by listing off the five or so coaches you named without coordinator experience, but each of those guys (except for Dabo) had head coaching experience before taking over a P5 school.
I'm fine hiring a successful HC that didn't have coordinator experience prior to being headcoach. If Ball State or Youngstown or Houston or whatever want to take a chance on a position coach or ST coordinator, let them run that experiment.
My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
We don't do this anywhere else because it's silly. Wanna be CEO of the company, need to be the CFO first. You'd be a lousy president, you've never been vice president. There's no way you can step in and be the manager, you've never been assistant manager. It's a flimsy, silly premise, it won't stop happening though.
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
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Good job, Dlew12.
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Good job, Dlew12.
I'm getting this post framed.
I remarked to my friend earlier this week that I was hopeful to see a Thompson video made by you.
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Tibesar is a defensive run game coordinator at Wisconsin!
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy". My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda. I actually surprised myself researching as many successful head coaches as i could think of with how many were never OC or DC. I wasn't sure i'd even find ONE when i started looking. It was also amazing that several only had one or two years experience as an OC or DC...not nearly enough for them to be considered "successful". And I only researched the best coaches i could think of...Switzer, Osborne, Parcels, Meyer, Swinney, Saban, Harbaugh, Briles, Bowden, Belichek, Carrol, Tressel etc. Of course some of the great coaches had several years of OC or DC experience, but by no means would i consider success as an OC or DC a prerequisite for success as a head coach. That's the only argument that i was/am trying to make.
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.
People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy". My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.
Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
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It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.
People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
Well then, name me one brain surgeon that went on to be a successful P5 football coach.
YEAH, THAT'S RIGHT, YOU CAN'T DO IT!
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.
People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles. I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results. I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once." I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume." I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that. I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other. I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.
I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles. I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.
I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy". My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.
Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach. But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made.
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I honestly think that the most important part of being a college coach is managing the recruiting/building/maintenance of a roster. Obviously you have to be crazy organized and maintain good relationships with a ton of people. I really would't care much about the strategery of it all if I was in charge.
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.
People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles. I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results. I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once." I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume." I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that. I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other. I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.
I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles. I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.
I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy". My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.
Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach. But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made.
dlew, MiR is just arguing for argument's sake.
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I don’t want Sean as the next HC personally, but I acknowledge that he could turn out to be successful here.
Keep in mind there are some people on this board who still bag on Winston Dimel even though he’s got to be the best all around FB we’ve had under Snyder 2.0.
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IMO the biggest knock on Sean is he's only been an assistant since 2010. That's not much time on the recruiting trail. I also don't know that he's won a recruiting battle? Who is the best recruit he played an instrumental role in landing?
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My point is that being a coordinator is clearly not an accurate indicator of success of a head coach, neither is having success on a lower level. The special teams coach thing is something specifically concocted as a talking point against Sean, evidence to the contrary be damned.
If succeeding as a coordinator isn't an accurate indicator of future success as a head coach, and having head coaching experience at a lower level isn't an accurate indicator of being a successful head coach at a high level, then what is? Predicted ability to bring in assistant coaches? Recruiting experience? Do those work in Sean's favor? I honestly don't know because he's never really been asked to do those things.
I guess my question is, what is it about Sean that makes people supporting him go "yeah, this is the guy we should get"? The only thing he's shown is that he's a good special teams coordinator and that he's done vague "behind the scenes" stuff for us.
It's coaching football, not brain surgery, so the keys to success are similar to what they are for most professions. I'd imagine it's a combination of knowledge of the game, the ability to have and carry out a vision, the ability to lead, and for most coaches some luck. You can't measure someone's fitness SIMPLY based on what job titles they've had.
People can not want Sean all they want, I don't care a bit, but those who are neverSeaners really don't have a basis to make a truly informed decision.
I'm not measuring fitness SIMPLY based on job titles. I'm measuring fitness based on previous experience and results. I'm not saying "hire tibesar because he was a d-coordinator once." I'm saying "don't hire sean because i don't see how he's worthy of the job based on his resume." I've never been one to cry about perceived nepotism or any of that. I don't care about Sean's last name one way or the other. I just don't see what he's done to warrant hiring him to take over what I believe is a top 35 CFB program.
I'm not sure how you can measure the vague leadership qualities you listed other than looking at a guy's prior leadership positions and determining the success he's had in those roles. I think it's hard to judge Sean in that respect because his leadership roles to this point have asked relatively little of him.
I can't speak for MIR but my point has never been "Sean is the guy". My point is that the arguments made against him seem ridiculous and concocted to fit an agenda.
Exactly. I have no idea whether or not the man will be a good head coach or not, neither does anyone else despite how many times they'll tell you otherwise.
Well hell, I have no idea whether or not Sean, or Klein, or you, or me or anyone will be a head coach. But I based on our relative lack of experience I can make as solid a prediction as can be made.
You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
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You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach dad for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
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I remarked to my friend earlier this week that I was hopeful to see a Thompson video made by you.
Sorry.
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You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
he's only been a coach for 7 seasons though
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You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
he's only been a coach for 7 seasons though
You're right, I'm sure he learned nothing about being a head coach working with and talking to a head coach every day for the 17 years before that. Sean, Sharon, and Shorty peas in a pod.
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I'm sure Sean Sutton and Pat Knight learned a hell of a lot from their dads, too. WTF WHY IS THIS NEPOTISM NOT CONSIDERED OUTRAGEOUS!?!?!?
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I don't even think his resume would be considered if his last name wasn't Snyder.
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It's beyond nepotism, really. Given the amount of money involved in a head coaching salary, it is a MAJOR cash grab.
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You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
he's only been a coach for 7 seasons though
You're right, I'm sure he learned nothing about being a head coach working with and talking to a head coach every day for the 17 years before that. Sean, Sharon, and Shorty peas in a pod.
Like it's one thing to talk to dad about how he relates to teenagers and convinces him to come to play football for him, it's another thing to do it.
I can't believe I had to type that.
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lol at all of the neverSeaners in this thread-
hey guys time to grow up and learn something, sean is HC material.
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^^^ Reply #182 to this thread ^^^
#trending #karma
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You use all of these words talking about experience but if it's pointed out that he's worked with a hall of fame coach for 25 years, that wouldn't end the conversation.
he's only been a coach for 7 seasons though
You're right, I'm sure he learned nothing about being a head coach working with and talking to a head coach every day for the 17 years before that. Sean, Sharon, and Shorty peas in a pod.
Like it's one thing to talk to dad about how he relates to teenagers and convinces him to come to play football for him, it's another thing to do it.
I can't believe I had to type that.
I was under the impression that Sean has already been recruiting, for years, guess I was mistaken, my bad.
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I think KSU is a good enough job that we don't have to settle for hiring someone from within.
Is there a chance that Sean can be an even better coach than his father? Sure, anything can happen. A walk on can make the NFL hall of fame too, but I wouldn't stop trying to recruit 5 stars.
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I don’t want Sean as the next HC personally, but I acknowledge that he could turn out to be successful here.
Keep in mind there are some people on this board who still bag on Winston Dimel even though he’s got to be the best all around FB we’ve had under Snyder 2.0.
Braden Wilson would have had 75 TDs if his dad had been OC. Dimel is probably #2 though.
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dimel is amazing at blocking. any td's he gets are deserved :th_twocents:
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Neither see the field in 1.0
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
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Meh, baseball managers are mostly worthless. And they dress up in costumes, which is really, really weird.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
I don't know who I want, I change my mind every time I think about it. I have a list though. In no order
Lane
Brent
Sean
Seth LittreLL
Willie Fritz
Scott Satterfield
Dave Clawson
Bryan Harsin
Matt Rhule
Derek Mason
Blake Anderson
Lane is an exception to my never fired rule, he was 28-15 at USC.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
who are some other candidates with non-traditional resumes you think KSU should consider to replace Bill?
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
I don't know who I want, I change my mind every time I think about it. I have a list though. In no order
Lane
Brent
Sean
Seth LittreLL
Willie Fritz
Scott Satterfield
Dave Clawson
Bryan Harsin
Matt Rhule
Derek Mason
Blake Anderson
Lane is an exception to my never fired rule, he was 28-15 at USC.
literally Sean is the only "bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria" on the list!
Agree on Lane, I think he got mumped by USC - he would have owned without the sanctions.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
I don't know who I want, I change my mind every time I think about it. I have a list though. In no order
Lane
Brent
Sean
Seth LittreLL
Willie Fritz
Scott Satterfield
Dave Clawson
Bryan Harsin
Matt Rhule
Derek Mason
Blake Anderson
Lane is an exception to my never fired rule, he was 28-15 at USC.
literally Sean is the only "bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria" on the list!
Agree on Lane, I think he got mumped by USC - he would have owned without the sanctions.
I'm aware of that, help me with your point.
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I just think it's interesting that Sean is the only non-traditional hire that interests you.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
I don't know who I want, I change my mind every time I think about it. I have a list though. In no order
Lane
Brent
Sean
Seth LittreLL
Willie Fritz
Scott Satterfield
Dave Clawson
Bryan Harsin
Matt Rhule
Derek Mason
Blake Anderson
Lane is an exception to my never fired rule, he was 28-15 at USC.
Don’t want Derek Mason. Don’t want Sean
Bill isn’t retiring this year which I’m fine with because I’d like to see Fritz’s next year at Tulane.
Otherwise our lists have a lot of similar names. Mike Norvell is on my list. Chad Morris is in my Willie Fritz category.
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I just think it's interesting that Sean is the only non-traditional hire that interests you.
I don't know of any others that haven't been fired or out of football for a long time.
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Can anybody tell me what is wrong with Les Miles. Was successful at OSU, and won a NC with LSU. (http://goEMAW.com/forum/Smileys/goEMAW/Dunno.gif)
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
So, basically worthless to any P5 program.
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The lede of this story is "America's most successful sports franchise makes bold move against the grain of flyover country contrived message board coaching criteria."
http://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/21634728/aaron-boone-become-next-manager-new-york-yankees
If only Brian Cashman knew anything about hiring successful people he could have gotten someone experienced, guaranteed to win.
Your dedication when it comes to stumping for Sean is admirable.
I don't know who I want, I change my mind every time I think about it. I have a list though. In no order
Lane
Brent
Sean
Seth LittreLL
Willie Fritz
Scott Satterfield
Dave Clawson
Bryan Harsin
Matt Rhule
Derek Mason
Blake Anderson
Lane is an exception to my never fired rule, he was 28-15 at USC.
Same old kstate loser mentality. Here's my non-loser mentality list:
Saban
Meyer
Belichek
Chip Kelly (we should at least CALL him)
Bob Stoops
Swinney
Carrol
Fisher (although i'm not happy with this seasons performance so he's at the bottom...probably should have been fired by FSU if he didn't jump)
We should also spend the bulk of our time recruiting 5 star players (based on Rivals rankings, NOT 247). We are KSTATE! So sick of the inferiority complex of our coaching staff and most of our fans. We have nice facilities!
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Agreed. I’m not so sure about Meyer though. He’d have to win at least one playoff game this year to convince me he hasn’t lost a step.
Sorry, I’m not interested in whatever the equivalent is of a 5 heart for coach. I will be very disappointed if we don’t go after the best.
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
While true, his defenses were pretty darned good, if my memory serves me right.
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
Even with this I don't get how he hasn't gotten more interest. Unless the price tag is too high in relation to perceived value.
For God's sake, oscar Weber has a job.
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Same reason Mack Brown never found work
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Matt Rhule and Derek Mason can gtfo
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
Even with this I don't get how he hasn't gotten more interest. Unless the price tag is too high in relation to perceived value.
For God's sake, oscar Weber has a job.
He's old, and a weirdo
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Matt Rhule and Derek Mason can gtfo
Do you realize where they work? I'd put Cutcliffe on the list if he wasn't old enough to be my grandpa.
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Matt Rhule and Derek Mason can gtfo
Do you realize where they work? I'd put Cutcliffe on the list if he wasn't old enough to be my grandpa.
Im well aware where they coach at. Why that should make them more desirable I have 0 idea
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Matt Rhule and Derek Mason can gtfo
Do you realize where they work? I'd put Cutcliffe on the list if he wasn't old enough to be my grandpa.
Im well aware where they coach at. Why that should make them more desirable I have 0 idea
They have group of 5 jobs in power 5 conferences. Rhule is recruiting very well with pretty obvious barriers. This season not withstanding Mason has elevated Vanderbilt and his pedigree is elite.
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Derek Mason? And people complain about Bielema?
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His offense the last few years at LSU was stagnant and predictable AF. Very Snydz 2016-17-ish. At least that’s the perception in Tigerland. He really was very boring and there is zero chance he has learned new tricks.
So, basically worthless to any P5 program.
He only averages like 10 wins per year. He’s just not good enough for any serious program.