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General Discussion => The New Joe Montgomery Birther Pit => Topic started by: sonofdaxjones on November 18, 2012, 06:57:33 PM

Title: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 18, 2012, 06:57:33 PM: Extra-judicial assassination - accompanied by the wanton killing of whatever civilians happen to be near the target, often including children - is a staple of the Obama presidency. That lawless tactic is one of the US president's favorite instruments for projecting force and killing whomever he decides should have their lives ended: all in total secrecy and with no due process or oversight. There is now a virtually complete convergence between US and Israeli aggression, making US criticism of Israel impossible not only for all the usual domestic political reasons, but also out of pure self-interest: for Obama to condemn Israel's rogue behavior would be to condemn himself.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/15/israel-gaza-obama-assassinations
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: ednksu on November 18, 2012, 08:05:30 PM: I'm always shocked at the number of people who are supposedly educated and have no concept of international norms and international law.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2012, 07:35:32 AM: Just what part of International Law covers pumping Hellfire Missiles into mudhuts at "Suspected Terrorists" who are defined as any male believed to be over a certain age?
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: wetwillie on November 19, 2012, 12:46:33 PM: Im always surprised these threads dont get more action
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: p1k3 on November 19, 2012, 05:44:27 PM: (https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc7%2F396675_10151128385744117_48172786_n.jpg&hash=bc17dda81cdab4708b049f2e08322db3ea639ceb)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Cire on November 19, 2012, 06:26:44 PM: I don't understand what people want Israel to do when Hamas shoots rockets from playgrounds?
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM: President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: p1k3 on November 19, 2012, 06:36:35 PM: Quote from: Cire on November 19, 2012, 06:26:44 PM
I don't understand what people want Israel to do when Hamas shoots rockets from playgrounds?

they should eff 'em up, imo

Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

And innocent civilians that die too. Drones aren't exactly making any friends
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: p1k3 on November 19, 2012, 06:41:45 PM: Barry extended the Patriot Act and passed NDAA. An NSA data mining complex is going up in Utah. Thank God he's a constitutional expert tho
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: wetwillie on November 19, 2012, 06:48:30 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

That is absolutely terrifying
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: 0.42 on November 19, 2012, 06:49:32 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

What if Bush had been an expert in constitutional law? Would you have been okay with this?
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Cire on November 19, 2012, 06:59:09 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

agreed
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2012, 09:37:07 PM: Yes, the current administration defines "International Terrorists" as males over a certain age who happen to be in a certain area at a certain time. Oh sure, they also define it a little tighter at times by saying those males were engaged in "suspicious activities".

Yep, takes a lot of constitutional law to drill down to those finite definitions of "terrorists".
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2012, 09:40:16 PM: Also numerous survey's by multiple sources have shown that amongst the many non terrorists, never had any intention of ever being a terrorist . . . yet were significantly impacted by Drone Wars. Has only built up a greater resentment against the United States and actually spawned more people inclined to want to commit terrorist acts against the United States and U.S interests.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 19, 2012, 09:53:35 PM: Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula had just a few hundred members in 2009, and controlled no territory. Today it has, along with Ansar al-Sharia, at least a thousand members and substantial operational spaces in Abyan and Shabwa, in addition to a presence in Mareb, Rada, Hadramout and other regions of Yemen. New York Times 9/26/2012 . . . coincides perfectly with the U.S. significantly ratcheting up Drone strikes.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: 06wildcat on November 19, 2012, 11:46:31 PM: Quote from: p1k3 on November 19, 2012, 05:44:27 PM
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos-a.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-snc7%2F396675_10151128385744117_48172786_n.jpg&hash=bc17dda81cdab4708b049f2e08322db3ea639ceb)
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Well if the drone is inside the country's airspace... It is nice to see Obama reads the board and is basically trolling Dax at this point.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Cartierfor3 on November 19, 2012, 11:48:33 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

its like Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.
Title: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: felix rex on November 20, 2012, 12:36:21 AM: Exactly. The Hadramut was a bastion of sunshine and reasonable discourse before Obama.

Also, have you seen those numbers on ice cream and shark attacks?
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: OregonSmock on November 20, 2012, 12:48:30 AM: Quote from: CartierFor3 on November 19, 2012, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

its like Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.

It's a slippery slope, but that's why we elect people who we can trust with those kinds of responsibilities. If we have an international terrorist in our sights and we can take them out with a drone strike, I'm all for it.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 20, 2012, 08:37:21 AM: Just say NO to pumping Hellfire Missiles into Mudhuts at "suspected terrororists fitting the description of a (insert age here) male taking part in 'suspicious activities'" . . . Unless a Democrat is President.

Hey, it's a good thing this administration brought in guys like Harold “unambiguously reassert our historic commitments to human rights and the rule of law as a major source of our moral authority” Koh (Koh said that when a Republican was President to the U.S. Senate) from Yale . . . the same guy who railed about expansion of executive powers under the previous administration, but now says that the secret state sanctioned Extra-judicial assassination campaign while it's real, real, real close to being illegal . . . is probably okay . . . maybe.

Golly, every month or so the CIA sends the ISI a fax saying, "hey uh, we're going to being fly over there, and maybe over here in the next few weeks". The ISI would awknowledge the receipt of the fax . . . nothing more (really, a Fax?). The U.S. takes the awknowledgement of the receipt of the fax by the ISI as "inferred consent".

Government lawyers like Koh must scramble to revise their interpretation of international law so as to keep up with the new events that justify, in the eyes of the president, a military intervention. The “coerced consent” doctrine, the “unable and unwilling” doctrine, and the exception for humanitarian intervention all whittle away at whatever part of the law on United Nations use of force blocks U.S. goals. If the United States ever decides to invade Iran in order to prevent it from acquiring nuclear weapons, expect a new doctrine to take shape, perhaps one that emphasizes the unique dangers of nuclear weapons and Iran’s declared hostility toward a nearby country.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/view_from_chicago/2012/10/obama_s_drone_war_is_probably_illegal_will_it_stop_.html
Title: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: felix rex on November 20, 2012, 08:51:10 AM: It would be awesome if it were that easy. The ISI is a bunch of self-important assholes.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: p1k3 on November 20, 2012, 11:42:30 AM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 20, 2012, 12:48:30 AM
Quote from: CartierFor3 on November 19, 2012, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

its like Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.

It's a slippery slope, but that's why we elect people who we can trust with those kinds of responsibilities. If we have an international terrorist in our sights and we can take them out with a drone strike, I'm all for it.

and if we kill a ton of innocent civilians, make an entire nation suffer PTSD, and potentially breed 1000s of more terrorist, that's cool too
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on November 20, 2012, 11:44:51 AM: Quote from: p1k3 on November 20, 2012, 11:42:30 AM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 20, 2012, 12:48:30 AM
Quote from: CartierFor3 on November 19, 2012, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

its like Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.

It's a slippery slope, but that's why we elect people who we can trust with those kinds of responsibilities. If we have an international terrorist in our sights and we can take them out with a drone strike, I'm all for it.

and if we kill a ton of innocent civilians, make an entire nation suffer PTSD, and potentially breed 1000s of more terrorist, that's cool too

AN ENTIRE NATION OF MASKS?
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 20, 2012, 11:52:08 AM: Quote from: p1k3 on November 20, 2012, 11:42:30 AM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 20, 2012, 12:48:30 AM
Quote from: CartierFor3 on November 19, 2012, 11:48:33 PM
Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

its like Obama can do no wrong in the eyes of his supporters.

It's a slippery slope, but that's why we elect people who we can trust with those kinds of responsibilities. If we have an international terrorist in our sights and we can take them out with a drone strike, I'm all for it.

and if we kill a ton of innocent civilians, make an entire nation suffer PTSD, and potentially breed 1000s of more terrorist, that's cool too

I think all of Israel has PTSD from the constant barrage of Hammas/Iranian missiles. I saw an episode of International House Hunters in Israel and a big selling point was the awesome bomb shelter.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Rage Against the McKee on November 20, 2012, 11:53:27 AM: Quote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 20, 2012, 11:52:08 AM
I think all of Israel has PTSD from the constant barrage of Hammas/Iranian missiles. I saw an episode of International House Hunters in Israel and a big selling point was the awesome bomb shelter.

I bet the insurance is outrageous.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 20, 2012, 11:57:35 AM: Quote from: Nuts Kicked on November 20, 2012, 11:53:27 AM
Quote from: john "teach me how to" dougie on November 20, 2012, 11:52:08 AM
I think all of Israel has PTSD from the constant barrage of Hammas/Iranian missiles. I saw an episode of International House Hunters in Israel and a big selling point was the awesome bomb shelter.

I bet the insurance is outrageous.

Maybe they have medical insurance discounts for approved bomb shelters.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: sonofdaxjones on November 27, 2012, 07:35:32 AM: Democratic Party benevolence

The hubris and self-regard driving this is stunning – but also quite typical of Democratic thinking generally in the Obama era. The premise here is as self-evident as it is repellent:

I'm a Good Democrat and a benevolent leader; therefore, no limits, oversight, checks and balances, legal or Constitutional constraints, transparency or due process are necessary for me to exercise even the most awesome powers, such as ordering people executed. Because of my inherent Goodness and proven progressive wisdom, I can be trusted to wield these unlimited powers unilaterally and in the dark.

Things like checks, oversight and due process are desperately needed only for Republicans, because – unlike me – those people are malevolent and therefore might abuse these powers and thus shouldn't be trusted with absolute, unchecked authority. They – but not I – urgently need restrictions on their powers.

This mentality is not only the animating belief of President Obama, but also the sizable portion of American Democrats which adores him.

There are many reasons why so many self-identified progressives in the US have so radically changed their posture on these issues when Barack Obama replaced George W. Bush. Those include (a) the subordination of all ostensible beliefs to their hunger for partisan power; (b) they never actually believed these claimed principles in the first place but only advocated them for partisan opportunism, i.e., as a way to discredit the GOP President; and (c) they are now convinced that these abuses will only be used against Muslims and, consumed by self-interest, they concluded that these abuses are not worth caring about because it only affects Others (this is the non-Muslim privilege enjoyed by most US progressives, which shields them from ever being targeted, so they simply do not care; the more honest ones of this type even admit this motivation).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/nov/26/obama-drones-kill-list-framework
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: DQ12 on November 29, 2012, 04:55:26 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 20, 2012, 12:48:30 AM
It's a slippery slope, but that's why we elect people who we can trust with those kinds of responsibilities. If we have an international terrorist in our sights and we can take them out with a drone strike, I'm all for it.
You say that as if there was a viable candidate with any kind of foreign policy that didn't include the aggressive use of the military in the ME.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Kat Kid on November 30, 2012, 09:51:43 PM: Quote from: OregonSmock on November 19, 2012, 06:33:45 PM
President Obama is an expert in constitutional law. The deliberation that takes place behind the scenes between the executive branch and the highest ranking military officials is sufficient due process in the case of international terrorists.

If you truly believe this, then you believe that a U.S. citizen deserves no due process before they are put to death.
Title: Re: Greenwald: U.S. kill list compels support of Israel
Post by: Kat Kid on November 30, 2012, 09:53:42 PM: Glenn Greenwald is a national treasure. Conor Friersdorf is pretty good most of the time too.