Author Topic: "Obamacare"  (Read 322948 times)

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1200 on: November 14, 2013, 12:06:29 PM »
The silver lining to this god awful debacle is that it will likely get rid of a lot of democrats.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1201 on: November 14, 2013, 02:26:19 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline GCJayhawker

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1202 on: November 14, 2013, 03:52:59 PM »
The silver lining to this god awful debacle is that it will likely get rid of a lot of democrats.

Except for the fact that the Republicans continue to try and one up the Democrats on things to drive voters away from their party.  The past 12 years are more likely to drive people away from every party.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1203 on: November 14, 2013, 04:54:31 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1204 on: November 14, 2013, 07:09:37 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

because he keeps delaying crap because the law is so shitty

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1205 on: November 14, 2013, 07:16:45 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

because he keeps delaying crap because the law is so shitty

How does the delay undermine the whole framework?

Offline p1k3

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1206 on: November 14, 2013, 07:29:02 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

because he keeps delaying crap because the law is so shitty

How does the delay undermine the whole framework?

Because they wouldn't have to delay anything if it didn't totally suck

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1207 on: November 14, 2013, 08:37:11 PM »
 :lol:
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1208 on: November 14, 2013, 09:39:34 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

Because ObamaCare was counting on young, healthy people being forced to buy more insurance than they actually needed in order to subsidize the sick people being added to the roles through guaranteed issue. This whole "problem" with people losing their insurance policies was never an unintended consequence - it was part of the plan.

You don't have to take my word for it - take it from one of ObamaCare's biggest cheerleaders - Eztard Klein: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/13/obamacare-is-in-much-more-trouble-than-it-was-one-week-ago/?hpid=z2

Quote
4. The bill Landrieu is offering [the sa,e thing Obama did today - allowing people to keep their old plans] could really harm the law. It would mean millions of people who would've left the individual insurance market and gone to the exchanges will stay right where they are. Assuming those people skew younger, healthier, and richer -- and they do -- Obamacare's premiums will rise. Meanwhile, many people who could've gotten better insurance on the exchanges will stay in bad plans that will leave them bankrupt when they get sick. "I think it would be a real substantive mistake to do the Landrieu bill," says MIT health economist Jon Gruber, a supporter of the Affordable Care Act.

5. Put simply, the Landrieu bill solves one of Obamacare's political problems at the cost of worsening its most serious policy problem: Adverse selection. Right now, the difficulty of signing up is deterring all but the most grimly determined enrollees. The most determined enrollees are, by and large, sicker and older. So the Web site's problems are leading to a sicker, older risk pool. Landrieu's bill will lead to a sicker, older risk pool. Obamacare has provisions meant to stop an out-of-control death spiral, but higher premiums are a real danger.

6. How much will premiums rise if Landrieu's bill passes? No one knows. "It sure would be good to know how bad that problem is," says Drew Altman, president of the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. "I don’t feel I know." Jon Gruber agrees. "I don’t know how much higher premiums go," he sighs. "I really don’t." I asked Landrieu's office whether they had any estimates. "We expect the impact to be very minimal as this bill is designed as a transitional fix," says a staffer.

7. It's useful to think of this in terms of who, on the margin, should be paying higher premiums: The people who've benefited from the various kinds of discrimination that undergird the current system, or the people who've been victimized by that discrimination? Bills like Landrieu's lower premiums for people who have benefited from the system at the cost of raising them for the people who've been locked out of the current system.

8. Insurers would also freak out. "Some insurers would end up pulling out [of the exchanges] for 2014 because they would say their premiums are now inadequate, and the rules have changed," said Larry Levitt, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation. They'd be right, of course.

The truth is, this "fix" isn't even going to work anyway, because most insurers probably can't revert back to the old policies for 2014 at this late date anyway and, again, even if they could, the premiums have to go up anyway to cover the sick people they have to add to the roles. Thus, what Obama is really trying to do is shift the blame to the insurance companies. He'll say "well, I tried to let you keep your old plans, but those greedy insurance companies won't let you have them." In truth, it is ObamaCare that mumped this all up.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

Offline michigancat

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1209 on: November 14, 2013, 09:41:27 PM »
I wonder how many insurance companies reinstate their cancelled plans

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1210 on: November 14, 2013, 09:49:18 PM »
I wonder how many insurance companies reinstate their cancelled plans

Not many, if any. It's just not going to be possible. Here's a better explanation of what I tried to explain above.

http://reason.com/blog/2013/11/14/obama-admits-that-obamacare-is-unworkabl

Quote
Today’s announcements gives Democrats a response to complaints about plan cancellations. The White House has heard their complaints, they can say, and is doing something about it.

What the administration is really doing, though, is attempting to shift the blame. Insurers have spent months if not years preparing for the changes and requirements enacted under Obamacare. They will have a difficult time turning on a dime and extending cancelled policies. They may not be able to in some or many cases. And state insurance regulators will have to sign off on reinstatements, creating an additional layer of insulation between plan upsets and the administration.

Now when asked about people losing their plans, the White House and its Democratic allies in Congress will be able to argue that this isn’t a result of their law. It’s the insurers fault. As one insurance industry source tells Buzzfeed, “This doesn’t change anything other than force insurers to be the political flack jackets for the administration. So now when we don’t offer these policies the White House can say it’s the insurers doing this and not being flexible.”

Yet this isn’t just a political fix. It’s also a major policy concession—and a potentially serious problem for the law’s operating scheme. Allowing healthy people to stay on their current low-cost health plans will mean that the pool of people who get insurance through Obamacare’s exchanges will be sicker and more expensive. This year’s premiums were set on the expectation that noncompliant plans would be cancelled, and that the cancellations, in combination with the mandate to purchase coverage, would create a market for plans sold in the exchanges.

So Obama is creating a long-term policy problem in order to solve a short-term political problem. Even if this temporarily reduces some of today’s political pressure, those long-term policy problems will rebound to create additional political problems as time goes by. Premiums will rise, and if consumer demand turns out to be lower than expected as a result, plans may withdraw from the market. At the same time, insurers, who have been targeted by the administration for blame and had their assurances about the state of the law (and thus their business plan) upended, will be less likely to cooperate with the administration. They are already frustrated with the administration, and this will hasten the break between them. The opposition of insurers will add a new layer of opposition that the administration must contend with in order to make the law—which is built around the goal of making insurance coverage accessible—work.

In summary, today's "fix" is just more bullshit. It's nothing more than an effort to shift blame. The only way to fix this - maybe - is to repeal Obamacare, guaranteed issue, and let people buy the coverage they actually want.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1211 on: November 14, 2013, 09:52:36 PM »
I wonder how many insurance companies reinstate their cancelled plans

As large as these companies are, I would imagine its procedurally impossible/cost prohibitive.

IMO, this is a really pathetic attempt by b.o. to try and shift blame.  in a month or so when none of the bigs reinstate he'll be out there pounding the podium about how the insurance companies are bad actors.  He's already saying he didn't know the website was a clusterfuck, so he can't be blamed for it.

Really his stupid mumped up law has left millions of people and an entire industry wondering what the eff to do next.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1212 on: November 14, 2013, 09:53:37 PM »
Wow
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1213 on: November 14, 2013, 10:05:52 PM »
Add in the heavy regulatory oversight, actuary work and underwriting and there's just no way they can even do this.  It takes years to roll out a product, its not like their selling pet rocks.
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1214 on: November 14, 2013, 10:11:43 PM »
Washington state already says it won't certify the old plans because they would destabilize the market. Expect other states to follow suit. Insurance groups also saying this is a pipe dream.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, K-State fans could have beheaded the entire KU team at midcourt, and K-State fans would be celebrating it this morning.  They are the ISIS of Big 12 fanbases.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1215 on: November 14, 2013, 10:23:47 PM »
Yeah, um, it would easily take less than a day's worth of work for an insurance company to renew an existing plan.  Everything is already set up.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1216 on: November 14, 2013, 10:28:23 PM »
Yeah, um, it would easily take less than a day's worth of work for an insurance company to renew an existing plan.  Everything is already set up.

That's not whats going on, dipshit
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1217 on: November 14, 2013, 10:31:36 PM »
This extension sounds like a huge win for the people who are super pissed about Obamacare.

Yup. It's just another nail in the coffin. At this point, Obama's whole strategy appears to be to stave off as many consequences of this turd as he can until he gets out of office, or at least past the midterms. You realize this new exception directly undermines the whole framework for ObamaCare right?

What coffin?  How is the whole framework for Obamacare undermined?

Because ObamaCare was counting on young, healthy people being forced to buy more insurance than they actually needed in order to subsidize the sick people being added to the roles through guaranteed issue. This whole "problem" with people losing their insurance policies was never an unintended consequence - it was part of the plan.

You don't have to take my word for it - take it from one of ObamaCare's biggest cheerleaders - Eztard Klein: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2013/11/13/obamacare-is-in-much-more-trouble-than-it-was-one-week-ago/?hpid=z2

Quote
4. The bill Landrieu is offering [the sa,e thing Obama did today - allowing people to keep their old plans] could really harm the law. It would mean millions of people who would've left the individual insurance market and gone to the exchanges will stay right where they are. Assuming those people skew younger, healthier, and richer -- and they do -- Obamacare's premiums will rise. Meanwhile, many people who could've gotten better insurance on the exchanges will stay in bad plans that will leave them bankrupt when they get sick. "I think it would be a real substantive mistake to do the Landrieu bill," says MIT health economist Jon Gruber, a supporter of the Affordable Care Act.

5. Put simply, the Landrieu bill solves one of Obamacare's political problems at the cost of worsening its most serious policy problem: Adverse selection. Right now, the difficulty of signing up is deterring all but the most grimly determined enrollees. The most determined enrollees are, by and large, sicker and older. So the Web site's problems are leading to a sicker, older risk pool. Landrieu's bill will lead to a sicker, older risk pool. Obamacare has provisions meant to stop an out-of-control death spiral, but higher premiums are a real danger.

6. How much will premiums rise if Landrieu's bill passes? No one knows. "It sure would be good to know how bad that problem is," says Drew Altman, president of the nonpartisan Kaiser Family Foundation. "I don’t feel I know." Jon Gruber agrees. "I don’t know how much higher premiums go," he sighs. "I really don’t." I asked Landrieu's office whether they had any estimates. "We expect the impact to be very minimal as this bill is designed as a transitional fix," says a staffer.

7. It's useful to think of this in terms of who, on the margin, should be paying higher premiums: The people who've benefited from the various kinds of discrimination that undergird the current system, or the people who've been victimized by that discrimination? Bills like Landrieu's lower premiums for people who have benefited from the system at the cost of raising them for the people who've been locked out of the current system.

8. Insurers would also freak out. "Some insurers would end up pulling out [of the exchanges] for 2014 because they would say their premiums are now inadequate, and the rules have changed," said Larry Levitt, vice president at the Kaiser Family Foundation. They'd be right, of course.

So, higher premiums are the final nail in the coffin?  (Or are they the coffin?) What does this mean?  What does it mean for the whole framework of Obamacare to be undermined?  Does it just mean that you think it sucks?

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1218 on: November 14, 2013, 10:32:40 PM »
Yeah, um, it would easily take less than a day's worth of work for an insurance company to renew an existing plan.  Everything is already set up.

That's not whats going on, dipshit

What's going on?

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1219 on: November 14, 2013, 10:34:18 PM »
It should take the federal government like 1 hour to set up a webpage, they already have the servers
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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1220 on: November 14, 2013, 11:06:09 PM »
It should take the federal government like 1 hour to set up a webpage, they already have the servers

Insurance companies renew existing plans on a daily basis.  It basically amounts to flipping a switch.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1221 on: November 14, 2013, 11:14:07 PM »
The truth is, this "fix" isn't even going to work anyway, because most insurers probably can't revert back to the old policies for 2014 at this late date anyway and, again, even if they could, the premiums have to go up anyway to cover the sick people they have to add to the roles.

I'm sure you don't realize it due to some basic misunderstanding of how insurance works, but essentially what you're saying here is that insurance companies have enrolled sick people into plans that would begin in 2014 despite knowing that these plans would not exist in 2014.

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1222 on: November 15, 2013, 06:32:20 AM »
It should take the federal government like 1 hour to set up a webpage, they already have the servers

NSA joke?

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1223 on: November 15, 2013, 06:55:05 AM »
It should take the federal government like 1 hour to set up a webpage, they already have the servers

NSA joke?

Chum parity post

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Re: "Obamacare"
« Reply #1224 on: November 15, 2013, 06:55:48 AM »
I don't understand the angst over all of this.