"Obamacare"

[wetwillie]

He just compared health insurance coverage to an oil change.  No need to engage with him any further.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

He just compared health insurance coverage to an oil change.  No need to engage with him any further.

No, I compared an annual physical to an oil change. I compared health insurance to car insurance.

[chum1]

Insurance companies (of any kind) are far from mere middle men. But go on about extremely foolish ideas.

Yeah they're a lot worse. So you know what we should do? Replace all those insurance companies with the federal government. Awesome idea!!

Do you really not understand the basic concept of insurance and risk? You really sound like you don't.

Sure do. I can pretty much guarantee that while I am by no means an expert, I know a lot more about this issue than you.

In one way or another, I've worked for health insurance companies for over ten years. From 2013-2016, I worked with a company to implement plans on the Health Insurance Exchange. You are extremely confused about pretty much everything.

[Gooch]

Not 100% sue KSUW knows that medical procedures are priced off of locations and market. There is no need to shop your procedure.

[Kat Kid]

What is the perfect model for health care that Republicans actually want?

It is perpetual bitching about how Democrats ruin everything and if they were just in charge they would solve all the problems with premiums, with pre-existing conditions leading to denied coverage, with the onerous regulations and restrictions on inter-state insurance pools etc.

What is the vision? Where is the already existing example of this magical wonderland of healthcare that is accessible, market-based and affordable?

There is not a single example in the world and the United States consistently has one of the worst health care records based on cost and quality of care for our children and our poor.

There are lots of models of single-payer that can be discussed and debated, but everyone knows that "freedom of choice" in healthcare means "paying out of pocket" and provides just as much freedom as any other commodity, except with more asymmetry of information than any other transaction you will ever make and your life in the balance. It is absurd on its face.

Healthcare is not significantly different from anything else we buy on the free market. The idea that we need a middle man to make our purchasing decisions for us - whether that is the government or an insurance company - and that this will somehow make it better quality and less expensive is extremely foolish.

What are you talking about?! I have to think you are smart enough that you are just being incredibly dishonest here.

When you have a sick kid, do you immediately start shopping around for the cheapest doc? Do you get to the doctor's office after consulting WebMD and then start ordering off the menu for which services you will consume?

Like, what are you even talking about?

Like, I'm talking about this. Like, if it's a real emergency, you go to the ER or Urgent Care. That's what insurance is for. But like, if you think he's got strep, you pay for the doctor visit and some meds. Like, you think health insurance is somehow magically different from other insurance because that's how you've been conditioned to consume it. Only it didn't used to be this way, and doesn't need to be this way.

Anyway, got lots of errands to do today. Gotta go get an oil change. Not really sure how much it will cost - that's for the insurance to figure out. Also gotta finally fix that leaky faucet. I'll just hand my home insurance card to the plumber. Thankfully my employer provides good auto and home insurance for me or I'd never be able to afford the massive premiums. I wonder why this insurance is so damned expensive?!

My son's implanted diagnostic computer was broken so I had to stay in the hospital until they could figure out what was wrong with him. Only one hospital in town so I wasn't able to shop around. They just assigned me docs and nurses, that definitely took away a lot of my choices.

Definitely would've been much simpler if my first step in my health care decision matrix was to consult yelp reviews to figure out my health care dream team and then begin negotiating prices for services with them. Don't hesitate to walk out of the hospital if you don't like their quote and take your business down the road.

[The Big Train]

Everything KSUW has said ITT makes so much more sense now

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

What is the perfect model for health care that Republicans actually want?

It is perpetual bitching about how Democrats ruin everything and if they were just in charge they would solve all the problems with premiums, with pre-existing conditions leading to denied coverage, with the onerous regulations and restrictions on inter-state insurance pools etc.

What is the vision? Where is the already existing example of this magical wonderland of healthcare that is accessible, market-based and affordable?

There is not a single example in the world and the United States consistently has one of the worst health care records based on cost and quality of care for our children and our poor.

There are lots of models of single-payer that can be discussed and debated, but everyone knows that "freedom of choice" in healthcare means "paying out of pocket" and provides just as much freedom as any other commodity, except with more asymmetry of information than any other transaction you will ever make and your life in the balance. It is absurd on its face.

Maybe if democrats stopped rough ridin' everything up they'd have some kind of power outside of lifetime appointment circuit court judges, and the republicans would have less to bitch about.

Passing a healthcare monstrocity doomed to fail within 10 years on party line votes and the resulting fallout obviously is bad policy. Undoing portions of that mess is fine.

[chum1]

Everything KSUW has said ITT makes so much more sense now

Kinda like when someone who doesn't understand addition is trying to explain calculus.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Insurance companies (of any kind) are far from mere middle men. But go on about extremely foolish ideas.

Yeah they're a lot worse. So you know what we should do? Replace all those insurance companies with the federal government. Awesome idea!!

Do you really not understand the basic concept of insurance and risk? You really sound like you don't.

Lol at a libtard attempting to make this point. Health insurance is an inalienable right! Dump the sick into the risk pools! Make the healthy decide between a de minimis fine or carrying absurdly expensive dog crap healthcare to even things out!
 

[Kat Kid]

Health Care is a universal right, health insurance is a means to the end. I would be in favor of effectively eliminating insurance as currently organized.

These basic misunderstandings betray either a deep cynicism (my suspicion) or a deep ignorance of what we are discussing.

[Kat Kid]

I also really hope we have a good ol' fashioned credential off with chum and ksuw.

[kim carnes]

Health Care is a universal right, health insurance is a means to the end. I would be in favor of effectively eliminating insurance as currently organized.

These basic misunderstandings betray either a deep cynicism (my suspicion) or a deep ignorance of what we are discussing.

Idk if a service being provided to you should be considered a universal right.

[Kat Kid]

Health Care is a universal right, health insurance is a means to the end. I would be in favor of effectively eliminating insurance as currently organized.

These basic misunderstandings betray either a deep cynicism (my suspicion) or a deep ignorance of what we are discussing.

Idk if a service being provided to you should be considered a universal right.

I mean, I pay a water bill each month.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

Would love to see a list of universal rights, fascinating

[Gooch]

Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Don't think it is a stretch to put health care under Life.

[AbeFroman]

Guns, don't forget guns

[Dugout DickStone]

grazing my cows on government land too.

[kim carnes]

Btw, people do have a right to healthcare, just not free healthcare (bc it's not free, it's actually quite expensive)

[AbeFroman]

I think that's why they called it the Affordable Care Act and not the Free Care Act.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I think that's why they called it the Affordable Care Act and not the Free Care Act.

They should have called it the Expanding Medicaid While Premiums Go UP UP UP For Everyone Else Act.

[mocat]

EMWPGUUUFEEA

[Dr Rick Daris]

I also really hope we have a good ol' fashioned credential off with chum and ksuw.

won't happen. ksu is just smart enough to know that he's also pretty stupid. he won't engage.

[wetwillie]

Btw, people do have a right to healthcare, just not free healthcare (bc it's not free, it's actually quite expensive)

Single Payer ain't free bruh

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

I also really hope we have a good ol' fashioned credential off with chum and ksuw.

won't happen. ksu is just smart enough to know that he's also pretty stupid. he won't engage.

Meh, not worth the pissing match. I'm still not sure what I said that was so controversial. The idea that health care is not some unique service that we absolutely have to use a third party to pay for? The idea that health insurance ought to be utilized the same as car and home insurance? The idea that we especially don't want the federal government filling that role as the purchaser of healthcare? The idea they already are for Medicaid and VA and it blows goats? This isn't controversial stuff.

[The Big Train]

Tapout noted.