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General Discussion => Essentially Flyertalk => Topic started by: MakeItRain on March 21, 2012, 04:38:19 PM
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So here's the deal. I was going to avoid posting on this topic but with each and every new article I read I get more and more aggregated. It certainly would be a perverse pleasure to post this over at Wabash or the World Forum, but I feel like I might eventually get driven to homicidal thoughts over there.
So my thing before today was to be annoyed by people focusing on the races of Zimmerman and Martin. Who cares if the dude is racist or not, he killed a person in cold blood and is as free as the rest of us. But then I read this just now.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html)
My view remains that the races of Zimmerman & Martin shouldn't be the focus, but what in the holy hell is the Sanford PD doing here? The Chief should be fired and should be the target of a DOJ inquest for this line alone:
We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)
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:dnr:
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So here's the deal. I was going to avoid posting on this topic but with each and every new article I read I get more and more aggregated. It certainly would be a perverse pleasure to post this over at Wabash or the World Forum, but I feel like I might eventually get driven to homicidal thoughts over there.
So my thing before today was to be annoyed by people focusing on the races of Zimmerman and Martin. Who cares if the dude is racist or not, he killed a person in cold blood and is as free as the rest of us. But then I read this just now.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html)
My view remains that the races of Zimmerman & Martin shouldn't be the focus, but what in the holy hell is the Sanford PD doing here? The Chief should be fired and should be the target of a DOJ inquest for this line alone:
We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)
read both articles. first i've heard of it even though it's prob all over the news or whatever. that quote about taking a beating over this... is just insane. i mean "i'm sure trayvon would too". i mean yeah no crap. the dude is dead you rough ridin' dumbass.
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I reshared this on facebook so I could get a bunch of "likes" and thus feel like I did something to help. The more likes I get, the better of person I am.
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Pretty sickening deal. Even if it turns out to be solidly a case of self-defense, which seems extremely unlikely, wouldn't there normally be at least an arrest, and probably some charges brought against Zimmerman? The race part has to be playing a major part in this, I have a hard time believing that if Martin killed Zimmerman he wouldn't be locked up with no opportunity for bail while he waited for a murder trial.
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So here's the deal. I was going to avoid posting on this topic but with each and every new article I read I get more and more aggregated. It certainly would be a perverse pleasure to post this over at Wabash or the World Forum, but I feel like I might eventually get driven to homicidal thoughts over there.
So my thing before today was to be annoyed by people focusing on the races of Zimmerman and Martin. Who cares if the dude is racist or not, he killed a person in cold blood and is as free as the rest of us. But then I read this just now.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html)
My view remains that the races of Zimmerman & Martin shouldn't be the focus, but what in the holy hell is the Sanford PD doing here? The Chief should be fired and should be the target of a DOJ inquest for this line alone:
We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)
read both articles. first i've heard of it even though it's prob all over the news or whatever. that quote about taking a beating over this... is just insane. i mean "i'm sure trayvon would too". i mean yeah no crap. the dude is dead you rough ridin' dumbass.
Yeah I'm sure Trayvon wouldn't have left the house to buy skittles and tea if he thought he was going to be stalked and murdered, so the chief has a point. If you live in our town don't go outside without a bullet proof jacket on.
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Pretty sickening deal. Even if it turns out to be solidly a case of self-defense, which seems extremely unlikely, wouldn't there normally be at least an arrest, and probably some charges brought against Zimmerman? The race part has to be playing a major part in this, I have a hard time believing that if Martin killed Zimmerman he wouldn't be locked up with no opportunity for bail while he waited for a murder trial.
Yeah, that self defense argument has zero chance of sticking. You can't claim self defense against someone you're stalking. With the tape of the 911 operator telling him to stop following the kid and with Martin's girlfriend saying that he was worried about Zimmerman following him, Zimmerman is as good as gone. With a grand jury hearing evidence and the DOJ investigating Zimmerman is as good as gone. The real issue now is what the DOJ is going to do with the police department.
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So here's the deal. I was going to avoid posting on this topic but with each and every new article I read I get more and more aggregated. It certainly would be a perverse pleasure to post this over at Wabash or the World Forum, but I feel like I might eventually get driven to homicidal thoughts over there.
So my thing before today was to be annoyed by people focusing on the races of Zimmerman and Martin. Who cares if the dude is racist or not, he killed a person in cold blood and is as free as the rest of us. But then I read this just now.
http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html (http://gma.yahoo.com/trayvon-martin-killing-911-tape-reveals-possible-racial-005007672--abc-news.html)
My view remains that the races of Zimmerman & Martin shouldn't be the focus, but what in the holy hell is the Sanford PD doing here? The Chief should be fired and should be the target of a DOJ inquest for this line alone:
We are taking a beating over this,” said Lee, who defends the investigation. “This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html (http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/17/v-fullstory/2700249/shooter-of-trayvon-martin-a-habitual.html)
read both articles. first i've heard of it even though it's prob all over the news or whatever. that quote about taking a beating over this... is just insane. i mean "i'm sure trayvon would too". i mean yeah no crap. the dude is dead you rough ridin' dumbass.
Yeah I'm sure Trayvon wouldn't have left the house to buy skittles and tea if he thought he was going to be stalked and murdered, so the chief has a point. If you live in our town don't go outside without a bullet proof jacket on.
yeah, i mean if i go to a kstate baseball game in april sometime and some guy runs up and shoots me while i'm walking in and i die, then i think it goes without saying that i'd choose to not go to the game if i was given the option retrospectively.
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Pretty sickening deal. Even if it turns out to be solidly a case of self-defense, which seems extremely unlikely, wouldn't there normally be at least an arrest, and probably some charges brought against Zimmerman? The race part has to be playing a major part in this, I have a hard time believing that if Martin killed Zimmerman he wouldn't be locked up with no opportunity for bail while he waited for a murder trial.
Yeah, that self defense argument has zero chance of sticking. You can't claim self defense against someone you're stalking. With the tape of the 911 operator telling him to stop following the kid and with Martin's girlfriend saying that he was worried about Zimmerman following him, Zimmerman is as good as gone. With a grand jury hearing evidence and the DOJ investigating Zimmerman is as good as gone. The real issue now is what the DOJ is going to do with the police department.
Honestly if everything is as it seems to be, the sheriff should absolutely be arrested.
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Pretty sickening deal. Even if it turns out to be solidly a case of self-defense, which seems extremely unlikely, wouldn't there normally be at least an arrest, and probably some charges brought against Zimmerman? The race part has to be playing a major part in this, I have a hard time believing that if Martin killed Zimmerman he wouldn't be locked up with no opportunity for bail while he waited for a murder trial.
Yeah, that self defense argument has zero chance of sticking. You can't claim self defense against someone you're stalking. With the tape of the 911 operator telling him to stop following the kid and with Martin's girlfriend saying that he was worried about Zimmerman following him, Zimmerman is as good as gone. With a grand jury hearing evidence and the DOJ investigating Zimmerman is as good as gone. The real issue now is what the DOJ is going to do with the police department.
yep. i mean i can't follow someone for several blocks for no reason, catch them and then end up shooting them and killing them and claim self defense. that's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
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Pretty sickening deal. Even if it turns out to be solidly a case of self-defense, which seems extremely unlikely, wouldn't there normally be at least an arrest, and probably some charges brought against Zimmerman? The race part has to be playing a major part in this, I have a hard time believing that if Martin killed Zimmerman he wouldn't be locked up with no opportunity for bail while he waited for a murder trial.
Yeah, that self defense argument has zero chance of sticking. You can't claim self defense against someone you're stalking. With the tape of the 911 operator telling him to stop following the kid and with Martin's girlfriend saying that he was worried about Zimmerman following him, Zimmerman is as good as gone. With a grand jury hearing evidence and the DOJ investigating Zimmerman is as good as gone. The real issue now is what the DOJ is going to do with the police department.
yep. i mean i can't follow someone for several blocks for no reason, catch them and then end up shooting them and killing them and claim self defense. that's Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!).
Give it a shot, apparently you'd be surprised
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
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Mother Jones had an article up that I read yesterday. Outlines just about everything you need to know including the 911 tapes from witnesses. On one of the tapes you can hear someone screaming and the gun shot. The police later claimed that they were convinced that the yelling was from Zimmerman, even though he weighs around 260 lbs and Trayvon Martin about 140 lbs. To me, it sounds like a teenager.
Normally, I don't listen to tapes or follow crime cases in the news at all. This one's been different though.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained (http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained)
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They are going to love this guy in the pen.
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Mother Jones had an article up that I read yesterday. Outlines just about everything you need to know including the 911 tapes from witnesses. On one of the tapes you can hear someone screaming and the gun shot. The police later claimed that they were convinced that the yelling was from Zimmerman, even though he weighs around 260 lbs and Trayvon Martin about 140 lbs. To me, it sounds like a teenager.
Normally, I don't listen to tapes or follow crime cases in the news at all. This one's been different though.
http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained (http://motherjones.com/politics/2012/03/what-happened-trayvon-martin-explained)
eff. if you listen to those tapes then read even half of what's below then every person in charge of that investigation should be jailed.
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This case is horrible. I've been following it and it just pisses me off more as more information continues to come out. Thank god the federal government can charge this as a hate crime. I really believe the city of Samford and the state of Florida were willing to just let him walk.
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It is pretty shitty that this douche is out there walking around right now, but his time will come. I don't think he will be killing anyone else in the meantime. These cops will get their just due as well, and it is a good thing. Who knows how many other crimes these guys have botched along the way.
Hopefully whoever is in charge of this, or whoever steps in and takes charge (FBI, State Police or whatever) gets all of this handled soon. The more time this brews the more it allows the situation do devolve into some pretty ugly racial drama. You get these off color quotes from some of the neighborhood whites, black people from all over get angry, as seen on the news video. It all just makes it even more shitty.
It all comes at a time when you might have thought racial bullshit was starting to die down in the country and now it is really picking back up. We have a president who is calling on "black democrats," and waging class warfare. We have idiots like Pat Buchannan spewing the BS in his recent article. It rough ridin' sucks, and the reason is that too many people in this country are rough ridin' stupid. They cling to sides and get influenced way to much by events and outside sources.
Was this Zimmerman guy a racist? :dunno:, but he sure as hell was a loose rough ridin' cannon whatever his intentions were. This kind of thing is sad, it is sad for Martin's family and it sucks for him that his life got cut short, and it was nothing of his own doing.
But whose fault was it? Blame Zimmerman, blame the motherfuckers who were committing crimes in the neighborhood earlier furthering any stereotypical beliefs that Zimmerman might have held of black youths in urban clothing. Blame the dumbass local PD. It is all of their fault and the longer this goes on with this dude the more rough ridin' ridiculous side consequences there will be.
I'm getting pretty sick of dumbass people and rough ridin' racial bullshit in this country.
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It all comes at a time when you might have thought racial bullshit was starting to die down in the country
You should really spend more time with me. I have heard the phrase "post-racial America" being used and it was undoubtedly coined by white people with black friends. That being said I think the racial component takes away from the issue, kind of hard to ignore though when the shooter called the kid he shot a rough ridin' coon.
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It all comes at a time when you might have thought racial bullshit was starting to die down in the country
You should really spend more time with me. I have heard the phrase "post-racial America" being used and it was undoubtedly coined by white people with black friends. That being said I think the racial component takes away from the issue, kind of hard to ignore though when the shooter called the kid he shot a rough ridin' coon.
Yeah, the article i read wasn't definitive about whether he said that or not, obviously if he did say it he is a true racist. I hope you get my point though that it is pretty rough ridin' sick to see people in positions of power soiling the masses and diluting their already Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) thought processes by ramping up racial/gender/religious bullshit among them.
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
Glad to see things have stayed the same since I've been away.
The DOJ is involved because the Florida legislature made it almost impossible to prosecute this type of killing. On top of that, the Keystone Kops botched the original investigation making it even more difficult.
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A Million Hoodie March sounds fun as crap.
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Zimmerman reminds me of Jay Santos (leader of Citizens Auxiliary Police) from the Phil Hendrie radio show.
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
Glad to see things have stayed the same since I've been away.
The DOJ is involved because the Florida legislature made it almost impossible to prosecute this type of killing. On top of that, the Keystone Kops botched the original investigation making it even more difficult.
I don't think a jury is going to conclude he was "standing his ground" since the 911 call proves he was basically chasing the unarmed 16 year old.
The cops were negligent in the investigation, so send in the FBI for an investigation of the PD and the shooting.
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
Glad to see things have stayed the same since I've been away.
The DOJ is involved because the Florida legislature made it almost impossible to prosecute this type of killing. On top of that, the Keystone Kops botched the original investigation making it even more difficult.
I don't think a jury is going to conclude he was "standing his ground" since the 911 call proves he was basically chasing the unarmed 16 year old.
The cops were negligent in the investigation, so send in the FBI for an investigation of the PD and the shooting.
If Zimmerman were ever charged under Florida statutes, there would be no jury at the trial and that would be to his benefit.
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I don't see why this is such a big deal. If the kid didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have been out stealing crap.
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I don't see why this is such a big deal. If the kid didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have been out stealing crap.
:thumbs:
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
Glad to see things have stayed the same since I've been away.
The DOJ is involved because the Florida legislature made it almost impossible to prosecute this type of killing. On top of that, the Keystone Kops botched the original investigation making it even more difficult.
I don't think a jury is going to conclude he was "standing his ground" since the 911 call proves he was basically chasing the unarmed 16 year old.
The cops were negligent in the investigation, so send in the FBI for an investigation of the PD and the shooting.
If Zimmerman were ever charged under Florida statutes, there would be no jury at the trial and that would be to his benefit.
Yes, the "stand your ground" laws passed by the NRA make it much, much harder to prosecute for murder. Thanks Charlton Heston!
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I don't see why this is such a big deal. If the kid didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have been out stealing crap.
:runaway:
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I don't see why this is such a big deal. If the kid didn't want to get shot, he shouldn't have been out stealing crap.
:thumbs:
lol @ als roomate
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
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Looks like a cold blooded murder, and I imagine that's what it will end up. Not sure why the DOJ is involved. I would think the state's attorney's general office could handle this one.
Glad to see things have stayed the same since I've been away.
The DOJ is involved because the Florida legislature made it almost impossible to prosecute this type of killing. On top of that, the Keystone Kops botched the original investigation making it even more difficult.
I don't think a jury is going to conclude he was "standing his ground" since the 911 call proves he was basically chasing the unarmed 16 year old.
The cops were negligent in the investigation, so send in the FBI for an investigation of the PD and the shooting.
If Zimmerman were ever charged under Florida statutes, there would be no jury at the trial and that would be to his benefit.
Yes, the "stand your ground" laws passed by the NRA make it much, much harder to prosecute for murder. Thanks Charlton Heston!
Pretty sure this one would go to trial.
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
Clearly you haven't read Thomas Sowell. Maybe you should change your poor attitude.
Twice within the past few years, I have been pulled over by the police for driving at night without my headlights on. My car is supposed to turn on the headlights automatically when the light outside is below a certain level, but sometimes I accidentally brush against the controls and inadvertently switch them to manual.
Both times I thanked the policeman because he may well have saved my life. Neither time did I get a ticket or even a warning. In each case, the policeman was white.
Recently a well-known black journalist told me of a very different experience. He happened to be riding along in a police car driven by a white policeman. Ahead of them was a car driving at night with no headlights on and, in the dark, it was impossible to see who was driving it.
When the policeman pulled the car over, a black driver got out and, when the policeman told him that he was driving without his lights on, the driver said, "You only pulled me over because I am black!"
This was said even though he saw the black man who was with the policeman. The driver got a ticket.
Later, when the journalist asked the cop how often he got such responses from black drivers, the reply was "About 80 percent of the time."
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I've seen the light!
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
Clearly you haven't read Thomas Sowell. Maybe you should change your poor attitude.
Twice within the past few years, I have been pulled over by the police for driving at night without my headlights on. My car is supposed to turn on the headlights automatically when the light outside is below a certain level, but sometimes I accidentally brush against the controls and inadvertently switch them to manual.
Both times I thanked the policeman because he may well have saved my life. Neither time did I get a ticket or even a warning. In each case, the policeman was white.
Recently a well-known black journalist told me of a very different experience. He happened to be riding along in a police car driven by a white policeman. Ahead of them was a car driving at night with no headlights on and, in the dark, it was impossible to see who was driving it.
When the policeman pulled the car over, a black driver got out and, when the policeman told him that he was driving without his lights on, the driver said, "You only pulled me over because I am black!"
This was said even though he saw the black man who was with the policeman. The driver got a ticket.
Later, when the journalist asked the cop how often he got such responses from black drivers, the reply was "About 80 percent of the time."
Also this reminds me, trim does that Salina cop who pulled me over have a place in the Pak'r characters thread?
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Also this reminds me, trim does that Salina cop who pulled me over have a place in the Pak'r characters thread?
Probably, but not ahead of PI'n West Virginia Scheme waitress.
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FYI: People who are upset about this need to be more upset at the laws than they are at the Police Chief. Police departments all over Florida objected to this law before it was passed as making murders harder to prosecute...
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Also this reminds me, trim does that Salina cop who pulled me over have a place in the Pak'r characters thread?
Probably, but not ahead of PI'n West Virginia Scheme waitress.
I added the cop.
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FYI: People who are upset about this need to be more upset at the laws than they are at the Police Chief. Police departments all over Florida objected to this law before it was passed as making murders harder to prosecute...
I don't think the laws allowed the Sanford PD, to hide evidence, coerce witnesses, and make questionable statements about the victim. Could be wrong though. Bad laws don't absolve bad police work.
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Top result when I just now googled Sanford Florida to see where it was and if it was a place BSAC could relocate me to start whipping racist ass in the courtroom:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE82L14S20120322
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Top result when I just now googled Sanford Florida to see where it was and if it was a place BSAC could relocate me to start whipping racist ass in the courtroom:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/03/22/us-usa-florida-shooting-idUSBRE82L14S20120322
Temporarily stepping down just isn't good enough.
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Heard on the news this morning that the shooter has disconnected all phones, shut down all his social media, and has disappeared. I would say that this goes a ways towards implying guilt, but he is enough of a paranoid man that he carries a gun when doing HOA patrols in a gated community. Will be interesting what will happen if someone decides to arrest him.
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Will be interesting what will happen if someone decides to arrest him.
As initiation into goEMAW, ConcordiaFloridaRussianMailOrderBrideEMAW should try to make a citizen's arrest and then feel threatened and shoot the guy.
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Heard on the news this morning that the shooter has disconnected all phones, shut down all his social media, and has disappeared. I would say that this goes a ways towards implying guilt, but he is enough of a paranoid man that he carries a gun when doing HOA patrols in a gated community. Will be interesting what will happen if someone decides to arrest him.
That doesn't really imply guilt. The guy's name has been made public, and it's obvious to anybody who has listened to the 911 tapes that he ran down the kid and shot him in cold blood. Zimmerman has probably been getting threatening phone calls and messages on his social media nonstop since this story broke, and he probably is afraid for his own life.
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I hope the rough rider gets killed. Eye for an eye and whatnot.
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Heard on the news this morning that the shooter has disconnected all phones, shut down all his social media, and has disappeared. I would say that this goes a ways towards implying guilt, but he is enough of a paranoid man that he carries a gun when doing HOA patrols in a gated community. Will be interesting what will happen if someone decides to arrest him.
That doesn't really imply guilt. The guy's name has been made public, and it's obvious to anybody who has listened to the 911 tapes that he ran down the kid and shot him in cold blood. Zimmerman has probably been getting threatening phone calls and messages on his social media nonstop since this story broke, and he probably is afraid for his own life.
Oh man, look for a bunch more Floridians to get shot. :runaway:
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
Did you look like a criminal in your track suit?
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
Clearly you haven't read Thomas Sowell. Maybe you should change your poor attitude.
Twice within the past few years, I have been pulled over by the police for driving at night without my headlights on. My car is supposed to turn on the headlights automatically when the light outside is below a certain level, but sometimes I accidentally brush against the controls and inadvertently switch them to manual.
Both times I thanked the policeman because he may well have saved my life. Neither time did I get a ticket or even a warning. In each case, the policeman was white.
Recently a well-known black journalist told me of a very different experience. He happened to be riding along in a police car driven by a white policeman. Ahead of them was a car driving at night with no headlights on and, in the dark, it was impossible to see who was driving it.
When the policeman pulled the car over, a black driver got out and, when the policeman told him that he was driving without his lights on, the driver said, "You only pulled me over because I am black!"
This was said even though he saw the black man who was with the policeman. The driver got a ticket.
Later, when the journalist asked the cop how often he got such responses from black drivers, the reply was "About 80 percent of the time."
Also this reminds me, trim does that Salina cop who pulled me over have a place in the Pak'r characters thread?
I have a cousin who is a salina cop, fwiw.
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http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera (http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera)
Geraldo is not an intelligent, clear headed, critical thinking human. He is a dumb dumb.
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http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera (http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera)
Geraldo is not an intelligent, clear headed, critical thinking human. He is a dumb dumb.
LOL, he thinks that Skittles come in a box.
Seriously, what an idiot.
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http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera (http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera)
Geraldo is not an intelligent, clear headed, critical thinking human. He is a dumb dumb.
He's trollin his ass off. Conservatives in the media are really good at this. Rivera, Rush, and the fat hairy dead guy are masters at trolling.
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I know its cool to yuk this crap up, but last night I was leaving my office very late, since it was late I was dressed casually in a track suit and I was wondering if anyone around might think I was stealing and I would run into issues. This kid was buying rough ridin' skittles and he was killed because some psycho thought he looked like a criminal. People who think race isn't an issue in this country have no idea what it is like to live with the burden of knowing you could potentially get shot because you look like a criminal.
Clearly you haven't read Thomas Sowell. Maybe you should change your poor attitude.
Twice within the past few years, I have been pulled over by the police for driving at night without my headlights on. My car is supposed to turn on the headlights automatically when the light outside is below a certain level, but sometimes I accidentally brush against the controls and inadvertently switch them to manual.
Both times I thanked the policeman because he may well have saved my life. Neither time did I get a ticket or even a warning. In each case, the policeman was white.
Recently a well-known black journalist told me of a very different experience. He happened to be riding along in a police car driven by a white policeman. Ahead of them was a car driving at night with no headlights on and, in the dark, it was impossible to see who was driving it.
When the policeman pulled the car over, a black driver got out and, when the policeman told him that he was driving without his lights on, the driver said, "You only pulled me over because I am black!"
This was said even though he saw the black man who was with the policeman. The driver got a ticket.
Later, when the journalist asked the cop how often he got such responses from black drivers, the reply was "About 80 percent of the time."
Also this reminds me, trim does that Salina cop who pulled me over have a place in the Pak'r characters thread?
I have a cousin who is a salina cop, fwiw.
Female about 5'3"?
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http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera (http://gawker.com/5895867/minorities-who-wear-hoodies-just-asking-to-be-shot-says-geraldo-rivera)
Geraldo is not an intelligent, clear headed, critical thinking human. He is a dumb dumb.
He's trollin his ass off. Conservatives in the media are really good at this. Rivera, Rush, and the fat hairy dead guy are masters at trolling.
This is the true master troll (http://www.latimes.com/news/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-trayvon-martin-case-jesse-jackson-20120323,0,2131299.story)
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
Thanks all the same Trim, but maybe it just hasn't been retweeted enough.
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I hope trayvon at least got to enjoy the skittles, unless they were those new double flavor kind those are disgusting.
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
But what if we're right and you're wrong? If we're right, racism will be fought. If you're wrong, you'll go to hell. Think about it.
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It all comes at a time when you might have thought racial bullshit was starting to die down in the country and now it is really picking back up.
No one should think that. Racism is very much still here, as shown by many psychological studies that are going on. One that comes to the top of my head, researchers sent in job applications to multiple businesses. 1/4 of the applicants were black, good with social skills but not good with computers. 1/4 were black, not good with social skills but good with computers. 1/4 were white, good with social skills, but not good with computers. 1/4 were white, not good with social skills, but good with computers.
Significantly more of the white people were called back for a job interview. When given a reason as to why the black people weren't called back, the company would say "we value social skills more than computer skills" if they were good with computers, or "we value computer skills more than social skills" if they were good with social skills.
Don't tell me racism isn't blatant in America. This is one of many, many studies.
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
But what if we're right and you're wrong? If we're right, racism will be fought. If you're wrong, you'll go to hell. Think about it.
I will think about it. If you see me RT "WeLuvTrayvon" later, know that it was you, and to an extent, god, who convinced me.
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
I retweeted the "fight racism" one just in case.
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I had a racist friend who saw those tweets and changed.
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Hey retards - now including KSU AP reporter Ashley Dunkak - cases (that don't even exist) don't go to the Supreme Court based on how many "retweets" a spam account gets. Nor does a $1 get donated to "fight racism."
I retweeted the "fight racism" one just in case.
I'd like to have a meeting with those guys and buy the business plan on how to do this to raise money for the #fatty4ksu fund.
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$1 of racism fought per retweet is a really good deal. i don't see how they can afford it.
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$1 of racism fought per retweet is a really good deal. i don't see how they can afford it.
I think it goes to just paying the racists off
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsynd.imgsrv.uclick.com%2Fcomics%2Fgz%2F2012%2Fgz120326.gif&hash=fb2cf5e94185c2c7b563db7922f90899edfacd1b)
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I would find it hilarious if someone from the New Black Panther Party tried to apprehend Zimmerman and he legitimately shot one of them using "stand your ground." rough ridin' idiots
New Black Panther Party offers $10,000 reward for Trayvon Martin's killer
By Arelis R. Hernandez, The Orlando Sentinel
03/25/2012 9:39 AM
SANFORD, Fla. — Members of the New Black Panther Party are offering a $10,000 reward for the "capture" of George Zimmerman, the Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot Trayvon Martin.
New Black Panther leader Mikhail Muhammad announced the reward during a protest in Sanford Saturday. And when asked whether he was inciting violence, Muhammad replied defiantly: "An eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth."
The bounty announcement came moments after members of the group called for the mobilization of 10,000 black men to capture Zimmerman, who shot Trayvon in a gated Sanford community on Feb. 26.
Muhammad said members of his group would search for Zimmerman themselves in Maitland, where the 28-year old worked before the shooting, employees there told The Orlando Sentinel. He declined to say when the group would begin their search.
Sanford city officials issued a statement late Saturday, condemning the group's appeal and asking citizens to leave all arrests to the police. The statement was sanctioned by Sanford Police Captain Robert O'Connor, one of two Captains now leading the department in the wake of Police Chief Bill Lee's temporary suspension.
"The City is requesting calm heads and no vigilante justice," the statement said. "Attempts by civilians to take any person into custody may result in criminal charges or unnecessary violence."
Former Orange-Osceola County prosecutor Esther Whitehead said the Panthers' bounty opens them up to civil and possibly criminal liability.
"I can't see how anyone can go out and take action as a private citizen without some government action like the issuance of a warrant," she said. "It doesn't make sense. It doesn't sound reasonable."
The New Black Panthers were in Sanford Saturday for the group's third protest in the past two weeks over the fatal shooting of the Miami Gardens teen.
The group has consistently called for Zimmerman's arrest and threatened to find and detain him if police were not willing to do so. But group members didn't call for the mobilization of thousands until Saturday.
On Saturday, Muhammed led the small group in chanting "Justice for Trayvon!" and "Black Power!"
"If the government won't do the job, we'll do it," Muhammad said, leading his group of eight party members in chants like "freedom or death" and "justice for Trayvon" while making the iconic gesture of raising their fists into the air.
The party members said they are tired of the inaction of government officials, from Sanford city officials up to the Governor, and accused them of lying and delaying justice.
Sanford police arrived toward the end of the demonstration Saturday asking onlookers and media to avoid walking into the street in front of The Retreat at Twin Lakes where Trayvon was killed.
As the officer walked back to his cruiser, Muhammad berated and pointed angrily at him saying "If you'd had shown this much concern, Trayvon may still be alive today."
The fiery rhetoric and often profanity-laden diatribes made some visitors to the impromptu memorial uncomfortable.
Pastor Moses Brown of Tampa said he was disappointed with the Panthers' approach.
"We believe in a message of justice, not hate," said Brown, who was in town to pray at the memorial and attend the Monday event at Sanford's Civic Center. "We believe justice will come through the court system."
Brown, who is also the Chief executive officer of Feed Our Children, said he has been meeting with other Christian ministers to discuss the case.
While the Panthers chanted behind him, Brown said "I see parallel versions of how we are coping with this as a community. Some in anger and us, in prayer. But we are in America where we have our rights to expression."
Sanford resident James Tucker said the party's message is about vengeance, not justice, and could rouse a "lynch mob" that could spiral out of control into a race riot.
"I'm as much for black power as anybody but this is going to alienate the white friends we need to get things done," Tucker said, as he stood across the street from the demonstration.
The Southern Poverty Law Center website the New Black Panther Party, a black-separatist group founded in 1989, is "virulently racist and anti-Semitic," and its leaders have encouraged violence against whites, Jews and law officers.
Like many people who have expressed outrage nationwide and beyond over the case, Muhammad, the group's southern regional minister, has called Trayvon's killing and the lack of an arrest a "miscarriage of justice."
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There are injustices happening everyday all day long. Right now my wife is treating a 1 yr old girl for starvation, and mulitple brain bleeds. This baby also has her front teeth busted out, burns on the inside of her mouth, and also tested positive for meth. Wife told me today the baby is now close to brain dead and still there have been no arrests or even a warrant issued. Who gives a eff about another teen shot by a tard who took the law into his own hands and some incompetent cops/PD.
I am sorry for going off subject. I just don't believe this shooting / the way it was dealt with is that big of a deal.
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Bump?
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HLN reported today that Zimmerman looked sleepy in the courtroom today. You're welcome!
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
After he severely beat him.
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
After he severely beat him.
Yeah, Trayvon has a right to self defense. He tried to avoid the confrontation altogether, but Zimmerman chased him down.
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There aren't going to be any winners no matter how this thing plays out.
Also, Zimmerman is f'ed for life even if he isn't found guilty.
Good news for George is that he has some weight to lose and can hope that after moving to some place far away from home that losing said weight will make him look a bunch diff.
The two sides are dug in and not going to change regardless of what the jury says.
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There aren't going to be any winners no matter how this thing plays out.
Also, Zimmerman is f'ed for life even if he isn't found guilty.
Good news for George is that he has some weight to lose and can hope that after moving to some place far away from home that losing said weight will make him look a bunch diff.
The two sides are dug in and not going to change regardless of what the jury says.
Well, one side prefers to use things like photos of Trayvon looking mean as evidence, and the other side prefers to use details like Zimmerman deciding to take the law into his own hands and then rough ridin' everything up. I'm not convinced that it's murder. I am convinced that at the very least, Zimmerman should be convicted of manslaughter.
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
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:opcat:
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
Because they are creating a false narrative of who he was. He wasn't an innocent, cute 8 year old boy. He was a 6 foot + muscular high school kid (17 yr old?) who attacked GZ when confronted. I would have done the same thing as TM too but he was just unlucky that the man who he was on top of unloading haymakers had a gun and defended himself just as TM was doing
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
Zimm wasn't stopping a crime, though. He had absolutely no evidence and no grounds to initiate a confrontation. There was none of Zimm's blood or DNA on Martin's hands or under his fingernails. How bad could the beating have really been?
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
After he severely beat him.
Yeah, Trayvon has a right to self defense. He tried to avoid the confrontation altogether, but Zimmerman chased him down.
This is totally relevant to pictures of him as a little boy. :flush:
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Unfortunately the burden of proof will be on the prosecution to disprove Zim's story and they won't be able to. Should still get manslaughter for intentionally causing an unjustified confrontation that led to the death of an American Citizen who had just as much right to walk down the street undisturbed as anyone else.
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
After he severely beat him.
Yeah, Trayvon has a right to self defense. He tried to avoid the confrontation altogether, but Zimmerman chased him down.
This is totally relevant to pictures of him as a little boy. :flush:
I just said it's not. It's also not relevant to any other pictures of him that people are floating around. The facts of the case are that Zimmerman is a frightened man (carries a concealed weapon) who thought Trayvon was a thief (he's black) and decided to chase him down to stop a nonexistent crime. He deserved to get his ass kicked, and it's really hard for me to see any kind of self defense case, given that Zimm initiated the confrontation.
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
Zimm wasn't stopping a crime, though. He had absolutely no evidence and no grounds to initiate a confrontation. There was none of Zimm's blood or DNA on Martin's hands or under his fingernails. How bad could the beating have really been?
Well he had a broken nose and blood running down his forehead, I believe I read he slammed GZ's head into the concrete as well. Mulitple witnesses said they saw TM on top of him. So judging by the pics the police took of GZ's face after it happened I doubt it was just a tickle fight
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
Zimm wasn't stopping a crime, though. He had absolutely no evidence and no grounds to initiate a confrontation. There was none of Zimm's blood or DNA on Martin's hands or under his fingernails. How bad could the beating have really been?
Well he had a broken nose and blood running down his forehead, I believe I read he slammed GZ's head into the concrete as well. Mulitple witnesses said they saw TM on top of him. So judging by the pics the police took of GZ's face after it happened I doubt it was just a tickle fight
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthatmarriedguy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fht_george_zimmerman_injuries_ll_120517_wg-500x281.jpg&hash=91aa6daebfb35938ff2cd0117c851dbd8ed8f4bd)
He really doesn't look that bad. There certainly aren't any life-threatening wounds.
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
Zimm wasn't stopping a crime, though. He had absolutely no evidence and no grounds to initiate a confrontation. There was none of Zimm's blood or DNA on Martin's hands or under his fingernails. How bad could the beating have really been?
Well he had a broken nose and blood running down his forehead, I believe I read he slammed GZ's head into the concrete as well. Mulitple witnesses said they saw TM on top of him. So judging by the pics the police took of GZ's face after it happened I doubt it was just a tickle fight
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthatmarriedguy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fht_george_zimmerman_injuries_ll_120517_wg-500x281.jpg&hash=91aa6daebfb35938ff2cd0117c851dbd8ed8f4bd)
He really doesn't look that bad. There certainly aren't any life-threatening wounds.
lol, so why would George Zimmerman be screaming for help if that's all that was happening to him?
Oh, wait. http://www.mediaite.com/online/its-not-george-zimmerman-screaming-for-help-on-911-tape-audio-experts-tell-orlando-sentinel/
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If Zimmerman started a fight, I don't think he has the right to shoot someone because he got his ass kicked. If that is considered self defense, it shouldn't be.
If some dude jumps you for no reason outside a bar and you beat the crap out of him, is he allowed to shoot you?
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Zimm just watched the movie Kick Ass too many times and decided to take action into his own hands and wanted to protect a neighborhood that had a string of robberies the past year. He saw a suspicious character and confronted him. Said character beat the crap out of him and Zimm had to protect himself. Cut and dry, Not Guilty
Zimm wasn't stopping a crime, though. He had absolutely no evidence and no grounds to initiate a confrontation. There was none of Zimm's blood or DNA on Martin's hands or under his fingernails. How bad could the beating have really been?
Well he had a broken nose and blood running down his forehead, I believe I read he slammed GZ's head into the concrete as well. Mulitple witnesses said they saw TM on top of him. So judging by the pics the police took of GZ's face after it happened I doubt it was just a tickle fight
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthatmarriedguy.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2013%2F06%2Fht_george_zimmerman_injuries_ll_120517_wg-500x281.jpg&hash=91aa6daebfb35938ff2cd0117c851dbd8ed8f4bd)
He really doesn't look that bad. There certainly aren't any life-threatening wounds.
lol, so why would George Zimmerman be screaming for help if that's all that was happening to him?
Oh, wait. http://www.mediaite.com/online/its-not-george-zimmerman-screaming-for-help-on-911-tape-audio-experts-tell-orlando-sentinel/
The court didn't allow the tape experts' testimony as evidence, though.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfnews13.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fnews%2Fimages%2F2012%2F12%2Fgeorge-zimmerman-bloody-1203.jpg&hash=af7a3306002a1ce78072ecf9dbf7dd9f287edfc0)
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cfnews13.com%2Fcontent%2Fdam%2Fnews%2Fimages%2F2012%2F12%2Fgeorge-zimmerman-bloody-1203.jpg&hash=af7a3306002a1ce78072ecf9dbf7dd9f287edfc0)
So this is the minimum amount of damage required to justify shooting someone?
Also, typical gun owner, can't fight for crap.
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It looks like he isn't a good enough fighter to be a vigilante super hero
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Being a crappy fighter is a pretty good reason to buy a gun, IMO.
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http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/24/2202081/george-zimmermans-lawyer-opens-trial-with-a-knock-knock-joe/?mobile=nc (http://thinkprogress.org/politics/2013/06/24/2202081/george-zimmermans-lawyer-opens-trial-with-a-knock-knock-joe/?mobile=nc)
Looks like he has a hell of a lawyer.
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
I think you may have an unusual definition of "no swelling".
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
I think you may have an unusual definition of "no swelling".
Well, there has been some swelling since then, but I don't think it's fight-related.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.com%2Fimages%2FUS%2Fap_george_zimmerman_jef_130430_wg.jpg&hash=604b42e834d92f50455e92638a07ce2084beb684)
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
I think you may have an unusual definition of "no swelling".
Well, there has been some swelling since then, but I don't think it's fight-related.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fa.abcnews.com%2Fimages%2FUS%2Fap_george_zimmerman_jef_130430_wg.jpg&hash=604b42e834d92f50455e92638a07ce2084beb684)
That's not GZ. The real Zimm obvsly paid someone to take the run for him, like Heisenberg.
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holy crap :lol:
thought that was his lawyer. talk about stress eating amirite?
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
I think you may have an unusual definition of "no swelling".
Well, there has been some swelling since then, but I don't think it's fight-related
Do you not believe that there appears to be swelling around his nose in that picture?
Also, I was unaware that goEMAW.com had so much evidence from a crime with no eyewitnesses. What an unbelievable group of people this is that was brought together by our love of all things Kansas State :D
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holy crap :lol:
thought that was his lawyer. talk about stress eating amirite?
The thought of guys going to town on you in a prison cell for the rest of your life will do that to you.
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holy crap :lol:
thought that was his lawyer. talk about stress eating amirite?
The thought of guys going to town on you in a prison cell for the rest of your life will do that to you.
Low slamhouseIQ here but might it be a bad idea to show up to your first day on the block with a delicious booty?
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This thread is going to be really fun the next couple of weeks :emawkid:
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holy crap :lol:
thought that was his lawyer. talk about stress eating amirite?
The thought of guys going to town on you in a prison cell for the rest of your life will do that to you.
Low slamhouseIQ here but might it be a bad idea to show up to your first day on the block with a delicious booty?
Hmmmm... Never thought about it that way. Good call.
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At one point Zimmerman also said that Martin went for the gun that was holstered, and that's when he shot him. Will be interesting to see if that comes up in trial.
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If I knew I was best case going to do 2-3 for manslaughter, I would have lifted a weight or two in the last yr.
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At one point Zimmerman also said that Martin went for the gun that was holstered, and that's when he shot him. Will be interesting to see if that comes up in trial.
Don't forget the part when Trayvon saw the holstered weapon, paused, and said "you're dead now [redacted]" right before reaching for it. That was a nice touch added by Zimmerman.
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Has George Zimmerman sued the Martin family for ruining his life yet?
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Gonna be great when this gets moved to the DK Dome in less than a week. :thumbs:
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It looks like he got punched one time on the nose. No black eyes, no swelling. That hardly justifies deadly force in a fight that he started.
I think you may have an unusual definition of "no swelling".
Well, there has been some swelling since then, but I don't think it's fight-related
Do you not believe that there appears to be swelling around his nose in that picture?
Also, I was unaware that goEMAW.com had so much evidence from a crime with no eyewitnesses. What an unbelievable group of people this is that was brought together by our love of all things Kansas State :D
Well, there really isn't a whole lot of swelling. His nose is clearly broken and that's cartilage sticking out. He wasn't punched in the face repeatedly, though. Just look at some photos of assault victims and you can see what that looks like.
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Seriously, though, who leads off their opening statement with a knock knock joke?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k)
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Seriously, though, who leads off their opening statement with a knock knock joke?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k)
it actually makes less sense when you see the video and get a little context.
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Tumbleweed
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This thread is going to be really fun the next couple of weeks :emawkid:
Yeah, a real rough ridin' treat.
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
Because they are creating a false narrative of who he was. He wasn't an innocent, cute 8 year old boy. He was a 6 foot + muscular high school kid (17 yr old?) who attacked GZ when confronted. I would have done the same thing as TM too but he was just unlucky that the man who he was on top of unloading haymakers had a gun and defended himself just as TM was doing
Dude if you are going to just make crap up I'd strongly advise that you shut the eff up.
Martin at his autopsy was 5'11" 158 lbs. Nothing about that is muscular. http://www.tampabay.com/news/a-review-of-the-evidence-released-in-the-trayvon-martin-case/1230750
Zimmerman at the night of the shooting was listed at 5'8" 200 lbs by the Sanford PD the night of the shooting http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html?_r=0
That took all of 46 seconds of research.
Martin was a skinny kid walking home with skittles and tea. Zimmerman was a fat man driving a pickup truck strapped with a gun. Zimmerman's defense can play scary n-word boogieman tricks all they want, but their client is the person who assaulted a cop & flunked out of community college at 28 years old. It is scary that there are dumb fucks out there who think that writing wtf on a door as a 16 year old kid and smoking some weed should be considered when assessing how dangerous an unarmed person is while walking home.
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I know very little about this whole thing, but the "weed in his system" thing or whatever is such a weird reefer-madness talking point.
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I don't see what is controversial about this. Dude follows unarmed kid he thinks is causing mischief in the neighborhood, shoots him dead. Unarmed kid shot dead. Who gives a eff what happened in the interim?
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I know very little about this whole thing, but the "weed in his system" thing or whatever is such a weird reefer-madness talking point.
yeah
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I know very little about this whole thing, but the "weed in his system" thing or whatever is such a weird reefer-madness talking point.
Yes, I hate this talking point very much
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
Because they are creating a false narrative of who he was. He wasn't an innocent, cute 8 year old boy. He was a 6 foot + muscular high school kid (17 yr old?) who attacked GZ when confronted. I would have done the same thing as TM too but he was just unlucky that the man who he was on top of unloading haymakers had a gun and defended himself just as TM was doing
Dude if you are going to just make crap up I'd strongly advise that you shut the eff up.
Martin at his autopsy was 5'11" 158 lbs. Nothing about that is muscular. http://www.tampabay.com/news/a-review-of-the-evidence-released-in-the-trayvon-martin-case/1230750
Zimmerman at the night of the shooting was listed at 5'8" 200 lbs by the Sanford PD the night of the shooting http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html?_r=0
That took all of 46 seconds of research.
Martin was a skinny kid walking home with skittles and tea. Zimmerman was a fat man driving a pickup truck strapped with a gun. Zimmerman's defense can play scary n-word boogieman tricks all they want, but their client is the person who assaulted a cop & flunked out of community college at 28 years old. It is scary that there are dumb fucks out there who think that writing wtf on a door as a 16 year old kid and smoking some weed should be considered when assessing how dangerous an unarmed person is while walking home.
jfc, ok you win. I exaggerated his height by an inch and didn't research his muscle tone.
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Well at least they finally fired this guy from Men's Warehouse. I mean, who wants to buy a suit from a murderer?
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Well at least they finally fired this guy from Men's Warehouse. I mean, who wants to buy a suit from a murderer?
People who shop at Men's Warehouse? :dunno:
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witness named John Good who described the fight. "He called it a 'ground and pound' by Martin, who he said was on top of Zimmerman, beating him."
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"ground and pound" = awesome restaurant?
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"ground and pound" = awesome restaurant?
think it was already proposed - the one with the beds?
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Haven't watched much coverage of the trial but is the media still showing pics of Trayvon when he was 8 years old making him out to be an innocent child?
Why does that even matter? The kid was armed with skittles and was confronted by a guy with a gun, then shot in the chest.
Because they are creating a false narrative of who he was. He wasn't an innocent, cute 8 year old boy. He was a 6 foot + muscular high school kid (17 yr old?) who attacked GZ when confronted. I would have done the same thing as TM too but he was just unlucky that the man who he was on top of unloading haymakers had a gun and defended himself just as TM was doing
Dude if you are going to just make crap up I'd strongly advise that you shut the eff up.
Martin at his autopsy was 5'11" 158 lbs. Nothing about that is muscular. http://www.tampabay.com/news/a-review-of-the-evidence-released-in-the-trayvon-martin-case/1230750
Zimmerman at the night of the shooting was listed at 5'8" 200 lbs by the Sanford PD the night of the shooting http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html?_r=0
That took all of 46 seconds of research.
Martin was a skinny kid walking home with skittles and tea. Zimmerman was a fat man driving a pickup truck strapped with a gun. Zimmerman's defense can play scary n-word boogieman tricks all they want, but their client is the person who assaulted a cop & flunked out of community college at 28 years old. It is scary that there are dumb fucks out there who think that writing wtf on a door as a 16 year old kid and smoking some weed should be considered when assessing how dangerous an unarmed person is while walking home.
I hope you lose your cooking show.
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I don't see what is controversial about this. Dude follows unarmed kid he thinks is causing mischief in the neighborhood, shoots him dead. Unarmed kid shot dead. Who gives a eff what happened in the interim?
This is where I am at. I mean, if they found a second gun, things would be diff, otherwise, it doesn't really matter to me. Zimm called 911 and was told to stop chasing. Zimm forced a confrontation, started losing confrontation, and decided to shoot.
In my mind, under this scenario, even if TM took the gun from Zimm and threatened him and Zimm then took it back and then shot TM, this would still be manslaughter imo because the confrontation was not only avoidable, but Zimm was told by the authorities to not create it.
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Everyone here knows that Martin is guilty. I'm sure the jury will agree.
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Zimm is looking like a total boss. Kicked back in his chair about to fall asleep. 0 fucks given
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between this case and the paula deen thing, it's really grouping people into 2 categories: good people, and racist pieces of crap.
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Seriously, though, who leads off their opening statement with a knock knock joke?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpQSJVgKn8k)
what an awful attorney.
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I wouldn't touch this case with a 30 ft pole.
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
Doctoring photos to make them look whiter/paler, showing pictures of a 10 yr old Martin. Basically trying to start a black/white race war when Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic and self-identifies as Hispanic.
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
I've seen this picture countless times
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollywoodreporter.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F03%2Ftrayvon_martin.jpg&hash=3ed5b844b5b05db42b7c414ae9e1f60373c09025)
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
Doctoring photos to make them look whiter/paler, showing pictures of a 10 yr old Martin. Basically trying to start a black/white race war when Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic and self-identifies as Hispanic.
welp
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
I've seen this picture countless times
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hollywoodreporter.com%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2F2012%2F03%2Ftrayvon_martin.jpg&hash=3ed5b844b5b05db42b7c414ae9e1f60373c09025)
CBS's national newscast at 5:30 used a very mean mugging picture of the victim. I can't imagine the rage I would have if this was my son.
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to the pit! :cheese:
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The media's racebaiting and misrepresentation of both Martin and Zimmerman really irritates me
How did they misrepresent them?
Doctoring photos to make them look whiter/paler, showing pictures of a 10 yr old Martin. Basically trying to start a black/white race war when Zimmerman is half white half Hispanic and self-identifies as Hispanic.
he killed a guy
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If you do a google image search for "Trayvon Martin" it's clear that white people are on the case to clear up this MSM race baiting.
I mean this is the first result:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthe-american-journal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FTravon-Martin-Gold-Teeth-Copy.jpg&hash=e6ac1fca8324c8dbcf72670a27a1bdfdfe0f0161)
http://the-american-journal.com/trayvon-tattoos-gold-teeth-drugs-violence/
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SnlOYXBXjlc%2FT5Ww2slXF6I%2FAAAAAAAAAFU%2FIS3c6Z6KPjM%2Fs1600%2FTrayvon_Martin.jpg&hash=b9162093b31c0a97e7fef9af96f892a1fbd8cda2)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F538524_360401367331782_100000857657622_977778_276039681_n.jpg&hash=44964b9fb8c46cfb61552afd3ad40dd7092e7d4a)
and well, there was this, too:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rnningfool.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FMartinNews1.jpg&hash=3de0c239546a6554916f9fe67a963b474612ba69)
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so congrats, shacks. These are your people.
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the hoodie pic :sdeek:
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the disguise pic :sdeek:
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what kind of jail time is zim facing???
If he's facing like 25 years, no way.
If he's facing 2-5 years, slammer.
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what kind of jail time is zim facing???
If he's facing like 25 years, no way.
If he's facing 2-5 years, slammer.
If convicted, Zimmerman faces minimum-mandatory of 25 years / maximum life sentence
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what kind of jail time is zim facing???
If he's facing like 25 years, no way.
If he's facing 2-5 years, slammer.
You know he killed a guy, right?
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what kind of jail time is zim facing???
If he's facing like 25 years, no way.
If he's facing 2-5 years, slammer.
You know he killed a guy, right?
KSU grad student killed 2 people on K-18 and got 60 days in Riley County JAIL
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If you do a google image search for "Trayvon Martin" it's clear that white people are on the case to clear up this MSM race baiting.
I mean this is the first result:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fthe-american-journal.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FTravon-Martin-Gold-Teeth-Copy.jpg&hash=e6ac1fca8324c8dbcf72670a27a1bdfdfe0f0161)
http://the-american-journal.com/trayvon-tattoos-gold-teeth-drugs-violence/
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2F1.bp.blogspot.com%2F-SnlOYXBXjlc%2FT5Ww2slXF6I%2FAAAAAAAAAFU%2FIS3c6Z6KPjM%2Fs1600%2FTrayvon_Martin.jpg&hash=b9162093b31c0a97e7fef9af96f892a1fbd8cda2)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fsphotos.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fhphotos-ash3%2F538524_360401367331782_100000857657622_977778_276039681_n.jpg&hash=44964b9fb8c46cfb61552afd3ad40dd7092e7d4a)
and well, there was this, too:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rnningfool.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F03%2FMartinNews1.jpg&hash=3de0c239546a6554916f9fe67a963b474612ba69)
Look how ripped he is in the third pic. Can you imagine the horror of chasing down someone at night who was out for a walk, to protect your family and neighbors, only to find that once you have started a conflict that he is not just some kid, but a 17 yr old with abs you can almost see, that he is practically a professional in flying birds, and that he isn't 150lbs, but rather 170lbs?
I mean, if our country is one that you can't shoot someone under that scenario, I just don't know if I want to live here any more.
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what kind of jail time is zim facing???
If he's facing like 25 years, no way.
If he's facing 2-5 years, slammer.
You know he killed a guy, right?
KSU grad student killed 2 people on K-18 and got 60 days in Riley County JAIL
Yep, was just protecting his family too.
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
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jfc, dumbasses, he killed a guy.
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
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Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
the south has loads of weird jury laws. in a few states it doesn't take a unanimous verdict to sentence someone to death.
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
How have you already come to that conclusion?
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ERII, if GZ physically grabbed TM first, would that change your opinion on whether GZ acted in defense?
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
This is from some free online legal dictionary as def of 2nd deg murder:
The precise definition of murder varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Under the Common Law, or law made by courts, murder was the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. The term malice aforethought did not necessarily mean that the killer planned or premeditated on the killing, or that he or she felt malice toward the victim. Generally, malice aforethought referred to a level of intent or reck-lessness that separated murder from other killings and warranted stiffer punishment.
Seems pretty solid of a fit to this case to me. Neighborhood watch with concealed gun. Called 911 and got in panic over d00d out walking. Told not to chase or confront said walker. Did so anyway. Started conflict with said person our for walk. Ended up on losing side of beating and resulted in shooting said walker.
Seems pretty reckless to me. :dunno:
This whole sitch was about as avoidable as they get. TM wasn't climbing in someone's window. TM wasn't stealing a car. TM was walking through the neighborhood. It doesn't even matter how the fight went down. He was walking through a neighborhood and some paranoid dummy started a fight with him and ended up shooting him. I just don't get the ppl siding with Zimm at all.
What am I missing?
Where is the argument for self defense here other than at some point Zimm didn't totally dominate the fight he started?
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
How have you already come to that conclusion?
The same way you came to the conclusion that Sams can't throw
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
hey dumbass, if zimmerman left crap alone like the police told him to, then the kid wouldn't be dead.
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This entire situation is besmirching the last name Zimmerman and I don't like it one bit. Big XII road crowds are gonna use this as ammo to heckle Ty and it just ain't right ya know?
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This entire situation is besmirching the last name Zimmerman and I don't like it one bit. Big XII road crowds are gonna use this as ammo to heckle Ty and it just ain't right ya know?
"Zimmerman with the murder of another pass attempt. "
"Zimmerman giving that pass the second degree"
"Zimmerman cutting short the promising young life of that drive"
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I can't wait to see Western KS say that this is just payback for OJ when Zim gets convicted on way lesser charges.
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
How have you already come to that conclusion?
The same way you came to the conclusion that Sams can't throw
:sdeek:
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
This is from some free online legal dictionary as def of 2nd deg murder:
The precise definition of murder varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Under the Common Law, or law made by courts, murder was the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. The term malice aforethought did not necessarily mean that the killer planned or premeditated on the killing, or that he or she felt malice toward the victim. Generally, malice aforethought referred to a level of intent or reck-lessness that separated murder from other killings and warranted stiffer punishment.
Seems pretty solid of a fit to this case to me. Neighborhood watch with concealed gun. Called 911 and got in panic over d00d out walking. Told not to chase or confront said walker. Did so anyway. Started conflict with said person our for walk. Ended up on losing side of beating and resulted in shooting said walker.
Seems pretty reckless to me. :dunno:
This whole sitch was about as avoidable as they get. TM wasn't climbing in someone's window. TM wasn't stealing a car. TM was walking through the neighborhood. It doesn't even matter how the fight went down. He was walking through a neighborhood and some paranoid dummy started a fight with him and ended up shooting him. I just don't get the ppl siding with Zimm at all.
What am I missing?
Where is the argument for self defense here other than at some point Zimm didn't totally dominate the fight he started?
well, you have some things mixed up, that might be what you're missing. the evidence points to self defense. there is not evidence to convict him of 2nd degree murder. this has nothing to do with my personal feelings that zimmerman is a dumbass, and everything to do with the legal system.
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
This is from some free online legal dictionary as def of 2nd deg murder:
The precise definition of murder varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Under the Common Law, or law made by courts, murder was the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. The term malice aforethought did not necessarily mean that the killer planned or premeditated on the killing, or that he or she felt malice toward the victim. Generally, malice aforethought referred to a level of intent or reck-lessness that separated murder from other killings and warranted stiffer punishment.
Seems pretty solid of a fit to this case to me. Neighborhood watch with concealed gun. Called 911 and got in panic over d00d out walking. Told not to chase or confront said walker. Did so anyway. Started conflict with said person our for walk. Ended up on losing side of beating and resulted in shooting said walker.
Seems pretty reckless to me. :dunno:
This whole sitch was about as avoidable as they get. TM wasn't climbing in someone's window. TM wasn't stealing a car. TM was walking through the neighborhood. It doesn't even matter how the fight went down. He was walking through a neighborhood and some paranoid dummy started a fight with him and ended up shooting him. I just don't get the ppl siding with Zimm at all.
What am I missing?
Where is the argument for self defense here other than at some point Zimm didn't totally dominate the fight he started?
well, you have some things mixed up, that might be what you're missing. the evidence points to self defense. there is not evidence to convict him of 2nd degree murder. this has nothing to do with my personal feelings that zimmerman is a dumbass, and everything to do with the legal system.
Exactly the same reason why I was glad to see Casey Anthony acquitted
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Exactly the same reason why I was glad to see Casey Anthony acquitted
that crap was even weaker than this.
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Exactly the same reason why I was glad to see Casey Anthony acquitted
that crap was even weaker than this.
I could have been her lawyer and gotten her off of those charges
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
This is from some free online legal dictionary as def of 2nd deg murder:
The precise definition of murder varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Under the Common Law, or law made by courts, murder was the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. The term malice aforethought did not necessarily mean that the killer planned or premeditated on the killing, or that he or she felt malice toward the victim. Generally, malice aforethought referred to a level of intent or reck-lessness that separated murder from other killings and warranted stiffer punishment.
Seems pretty solid of a fit to this case to me. Neighborhood watch with concealed gun. Called 911 and got in panic over d00d out walking. Told not to chase or confront said walker. Did so anyway. Started conflict with said person our for walk. Ended up on losing side of beating and resulted in shooting said walker.
Seems pretty reckless to me. :dunno:
This whole sitch was about as avoidable as they get. TM wasn't climbing in someone's window. TM wasn't stealing a car. TM was walking through the neighborhood. It doesn't even matter how the fight went down. He was walking through a neighborhood and some paranoid dummy started a fight with him and ended up shooting him. I just don't get the ppl siding with Zimm at all.
What am I missing?
Where is the argument for self defense here other than at some point Zimm didn't totally dominate the fight he started?
The unknown information that will come out in trial.
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This is what conflicts in my mind.
Trayvon, as is not disputed, was trying to avoid Zimmerman - at one point running or nearly running to avoid this person who was stalking him in his truck. He was obviously scared as crap as most 17 year olds are at night when they feel they are being followed.
Then, Zimmerman claims he came upon Trayvon on foot (ignoring pleas not to, obviously convinced he was catching a criminal in the act) engaged him in conversation, and that Trayvon launched and punched him square in the mouth when Zimmerman was reaching in his pocket to call the police again. Then while on top of him, Trayvon pinched his nose and covered his mouth to try and suffocate him. During the strugge Zimmerman's jacket came up revealing the handgun, Trayvon saw it, paused, and said "You're dead now motherroughrider" and started reaching for it but not before Zims could pull it out and shoot him.
Now, how Trayvon went from someone who was trying to avoid a situation into wanting to kill someone and then at the very same time Zimmerman (who had been stalking him) transformed from an armed aggressor into a total pacifist acting in self-defense is a fact I can't reconcile in my mind.
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I'm going to riot on Poyntz if Zimm gets life in prison
Why?
Because he is not guilty of 2nd degree murder
Sidenote: why are there 6 jurors?
This is from some free online legal dictionary as def of 2nd deg murder:
The precise definition of murder varies from jurisdiction to jurisdiction. Under the Common Law, or law made by courts, murder was the unlawful killing of a human being with malice aforethought. The term malice aforethought did not necessarily mean that the killer planned or premeditated on the killing, or that he or she felt malice toward the victim. Generally, malice aforethought referred to a level of intent or reck-lessness that separated murder from other killings and warranted stiffer punishment.
Seems pretty solid of a fit to this case to me. Neighborhood watch with concealed gun. Called 911 and got in panic over d00d out walking. Told not to chase or confront said walker. Did so anyway. Started conflict with said person our for walk. Ended up on losing side of beating and resulted in shooting said walker.
Seems pretty reckless to me. :dunno:
This whole sitch was about as avoidable as they get. TM wasn't climbing in someone's window. TM wasn't stealing a car. TM was walking through the neighborhood. It doesn't even matter how the fight went down. He was walking through a neighborhood and some paranoid dummy started a fight with him and ended up shooting him. I just don't get the ppl siding with Zimm at all.
What am I missing?
Where is the argument for self defense here other than at some point Zimm didn't totally dominate the fight he started?
well, you have some things mixed up, that might be what you're missing. the evidence points to self defense. there is not evidence to convict him of 2nd degree murder. this has nothing to do with my personal feelings that zimmerman is a dumbass, and everything to do with the legal system.
You are looking at a broken nose and some cuts on the back of Zimm's head that all took place during the fight that he started after chasing down a kid that was simply walking through his neighborhood?
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
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This is what conflicts in my mind.
Trayvon, as is not disputed, was trying to avoid Zimmerman - at one point running or nearly running to avoid this person who was stalking him in his truck. He was obviously scared as crap as most 17 year olds are at night when they feel they are being followed.
Then, Zimmerman claims he came upon Trayvon on foot (ignoring pleas not to, obviously convinced he was catching a criminal in the act) engaged him in conversation, and that Trayvon launched and punched him square in the mouth when Zimmerman was reaching in his pocket to call the police again. Then while on top of him, Trayvon pinched his nose and covered his mouth to try and suffocate him. During the strugge Zimmerman's jacket came up revealing the handgun, Trayvon saw it, paused, and said "You're dead now motherroughrider" and started reaching for it but not before Zims could pull it out and shoot him.
Now, how Trayvon went from someone who was trying to avoid a situation into wanting to kill someone and then at the very same time Zimmerman (who had been stalking him) transformed from an armed aggressor into a total pacifist acting in self-defense is a fact I can't reconcile in my mind.
Paul, you obvsly missed the part where Zimm started losing the confrontation that he sought out and started.
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zimm will not go to prison. there isn't enough evidence against him.
except for the dead kid
Zim would have been the dead person had he not defended himself
:jerk:
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
Walking through neighborhoods and other areas you don't live in is what ppl without cars do when they need to go somewhere.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
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EllRobersonIsInnocent? More like EllRobersonIsGuiltyCuzHesBlackAndImARacist right?!
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This thread is going nowhere but the dungeon.
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skittles
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
Walking through neighborhoods and other areas you don't live in is what ppl without cars do when they need to go somewhere.
Walking at night with a hoodie on in a neighborhood you don't live in which has had a number of recent burglaries would seem suspicious to some
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
You didn't listen to the tape, did you?
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Yep that's how it all went down. Just pulled the gun out and boom, kid dead
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Yep that's how it all went down. Just pulled the gun out and boom, kid dead
he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
You should both read my earlier summary where I laid out what I thought and asked what I was missing.
What am I missing?
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
no what he's saying is that when there's two people who were involved in an altercation and one of them is dead, that the one living isn't going to say to the cop on the scene, "yeah I overreacted and shot this kid cause I thought he was a criminal"
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
You didn't listen to the tape, did you?
did you?
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Yep that's how it all went down. Just pulled the gun out and boom, kid dead
he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
You should both read my earlier summary where I laid out what I thought and asked what I was missing.
What am I missing?
Where's the repository for every poster's detailed opinion on what happened?
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
You didn't listen to the tape, did you?
did you?
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
nowhere in that report did the kid attack him. :lol:
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
no what he's saying is that when there's two people who were involved in an altercation and one of them is dead, that the one living isn't going to say to the cop on the scene, "yeah I overreacted and shot this kid cause I thought he was a criminal"
So there is no scenario in which he's innocent because of what he told the cops?
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
You didn't listen to the tape, did you?
did you?
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
nowhere in that report did the kid attack him. :lol:
7 didn't say it was the tape, he said that it was GZ's statement to police dumbass
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
Oh, so you were there?
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
Oh, so you were there?
If I pull out my gun and shoot a guy, I'm going to make sure and tell everyone that we were in a fight and he said he wanted me dead. - Florida Stand Your Ground Law
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
Oh, so you were there?
i know you're going down with the S.S. Massa, but a 17 year old kid that ran away from him isn't going to come back, start a fight, and then threaten a guy with a gun. if it doesn't make sense, then it didn't happen.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
Oh, so you were there?
If I pull out my gun and shoot a guy, I'm going to make sure and tell everyone that we were in a fight and he said he wanted me dead. - Florida Stand Your Ground Law
If the bullet wound is proven to be from very close range (fact), you have a broken/bloody nose (fact), cut on the back of your head and multiple bumps (fact), then that would support your story
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Yep that's how it all went down. Just pulled the gun out and boom, kid dead
he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
You should both read my earlier summary where I laid out what I thought and asked what I was missing.
What am I missing?
Where's the repository for every poster's detailed opinion on what happened?
near the bottom of page 6 of this thread(not tapatalk page numbers)
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Its amazing how efficentis shooting the only witness is at leaving no evidence.
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
You didn't listen to the tape, did you?
did you?
http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/326700-full-transcript-zimmerman.html
nowhere in that report did the kid attack him. :lol:
7 didn't say it was the tape, he said that it was GZ's statement to police dumbass
There is a ton of wind interference and heavy breathing on the tape from Zimmerman actually chasing down Martin on foot. Also, the body was nowhere near Zimmerman's parked truck.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbcclist.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F05%2Ftrayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map-911-call-timing-v-2.jpg&hash=0d58d155691269ea3a300ecb8523696f18c90416)
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
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Did he really crap his pants? lol
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
shoot the [redacted], amiright
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Does anyone have the right to walk down the street without being confronted?
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
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he was tailing the kid, and talking to the 911 dispatcher. dispatcher said we don't need you to follow him, zimmerman says "ok" (this is on tape) and says he turned around to walk back to his truck. TM appeared as he was walking back to his truck and confronted zimmerman and attacked him. this is what zimmermans statement was when police arrived. there is no evidence that suggests he ran up and caught the kid and started a fight with him.
the statement of a guy that just pulled the gun on, and killed, an unarmed 17yr old
Are you saying there's never a scenario in which a legally armed person could not legally shoot and kill and unarmed 17 year old?
no what he's saying is that when there's two people who were involved in an altercation and one of them is dead, that the one living isn't going to say to the cop on the scene, "yeah I overreacted and shot this kid cause I thought he was a criminal"
So there is no scenario in which he's innocent because of what he told the cops?
Not saying that. Again, if you read the progression of this thread, I am not declaring this done. I was asking what I am missing and shooting down vague ideas of defense based on what I am assuming is a confrontation that was started by Zimm.
Is there a scenario in which he shouldn't be punished if he did indeed chase this kid down, start a fight with him, and decide to end the fight with a bullet after getting injured during the fight Zimm started given that the kid had no weapon?
I mean, maybe if the kid was choking him, but even then it seems like Zimm started this all.
I mean, I am not 100% sold on the second degree thing, although I think it reasonable with the info that seems to be available. I am, however, convinced that unless something shockingly different comes out during trial, that Zimm should do Manslaughter time at very least.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
guess that's why this neighborhood had 0 break in's ever.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
great, guess that means this neighborhood never had any breakins ever....
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If I end up in a fight and someone who is on top of me, hitting me repeatedly, sees my gun and tells me that I'm going to die tonight, I'm pulling that gun out and shooting them dead
protip: none of that happened.
Oh, so you were there?
If I pull out my gun and shoot a guy, I'm going to make sure and tell everyone that we were in a fight and he said he wanted me dead. - Florida Stand Your Ground Law
If the bullet wound is proven to be from very close range (fact), you have a broken/bloody nose (fact), cut on the back of your head and multiple bumps (fact), then that would support your story
The evidence from the fight and the damage inflicted on Zimmerman gives me no reason to believe that his life was ever in danger.
Hence, the reason that he inserted a movie line, "you're dead know motherf*cker" into his story. He has to have that element because the physical evidence is not enough.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
If I break into your house, I have every right to be there obviously
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Ell, your getting silly here.
Public streets, etc.
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Ell, your getting silly here.
Public streets, etc.
Public streets in a gated community?
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Those arguing for "he's guilty" are doing a far better job IMO. Of course, I kinda think he's guilty.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
guess that's why this neighborhood had 0 break in's ever.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
great, guess that means this neighborhood never had any breakins ever....
Break-ins are just as likely to occur from someone in the neighborhood than someone not and not to mention the perp is more likely to be someone you know or at least acquainted with. Are you gonna call the cops if you see your neighbor walking too far away from his house? Or if your friend is staring to long at your television. Get a clue.
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Ell, your getting silly here.
Public streets, etc.
hes been a dumbass since page 1
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
guess that's why this neighborhood had 0 break in's ever.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
great, guess that means this neighborhood never had any breakins ever....
So if there are some break ins in my neighborhood, I should probably just expect to get questioned by some armed wife beater when I go for a walk?
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
No it wouldn't.
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
I doubt he knows the face of everyone in his neighborhood.
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to the pit! :cheese:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi706.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fww63%2Fsurfinamma%2Fbth_smilietappingfoot.gif&hash=4c4847b7142a05300b2f71464e850e818ef2badb)
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
No it wouldn't.
If I walked around my neighborhood where I lived growing up the neighbors would say, oh there's ERII. If I walked around a random neighborhood in Topeka where no one knows who the eff I am, they would probably be suspicious of me
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
there is about 10-15 seconds of running. not the prolonged chase that you guys are perceiving. the tape doesn't sound like some bloodthirsty racist, he's actually very calm and reporting a situation to the police.
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Ell, your getting silly here.
Public streets, etc.
hes been a dumbass since page 1
If you want to contribute to the debate then go for it. If not, GTFO
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
there is about 10-15 seconds of running. not the prolonged chase that you guys are perceiving. the tape doesn't sound like some bloodthirsty racist, he's actually very calm and reporting a situation to the police.
I just think his fat ass ran out of breath and he had to slow down. He wasn't headed back to his truck, or the body wouldn't have been where it was.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
there is about 10-15 seconds of running. not the prolonged chase that you guys are perceiving. the tape doesn't sound like some bloodthirsty racist, he's actually very calm and reporting a situation to the police.
10-15 seconds is prolonged to me. Especially in an apartment complex. You run after me for 15 seconds you're serious about something.
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
It isn't hard to understand why the paranoid guy was suspicious. It's a little hard to understand why after fearing that Martin was walking towards him, reaching for something in his waistband, and then run off, GZ would continue pursuing him.
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
It isn't hard to understand why the paranoid guy was suspicious. It's a little hard to understand why after fearing that Martin was walking towards him, reaching for something in his waistband, and then run off, GZ would continue pursuing him.
Trying to be a hero, but I don't know
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power tripping off carrying a gun
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you know what powerless gun nut people fantasize about constantly? shooting someone with their gun.
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Ell, your getting silly here.
Public streets, etc.
Public streets in a gated community?
Yep. you would be surprised. Most gated communities that I have worked for in the past have city streets. It is actually somewhat uncommon for them to be private in my experience. That said, I don't live in FL or have any intimate knowledge of this particular neighborhood.
Also, you are reaching. Especially considering that this all ended in a life being taken.
How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
It isn't hard to understand why the paranoid guy was suspicious. It's a little hard to understand why after fearing that Martin was walking towards him, reaching for something in his waistband, and then run off, GZ would continue pursuing him.
Yeah, this makes chasing him even more stupid. If you think a guy pulled a gun and runs away, you let him run away.
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How hard is it to understand the reasonable suspicion that Zimm had? If Martin lived here year round, it would be a different story.
It isn't hard to understand why the paranoid guy was suspicious. It's a little hard to understand why after fearing that Martin was walking towards him, reaching for something in his waistband, and then run off, GZ would continue pursuing him.
Trying to be a hero, but I don't know
That's exactly it. In his mind Trayvon was already a criminal (and honestly I think race was just one factor) and he was arriving just in time to stop it. The guys history of calls to police, the groups he was in, patrolling the neighborhood with a weapon he was obviously pre-occupied and quite paranoid about something happening.
He was wrong about Trayvon, he wasn't a criminal and wasn't casing the neighborhood. He was talking to his lady friend on his cell phone bringing skittles back to his dad's girlfriend's house when some creepy, paranoid, armed guy pulled up in a truck and shot him dead 5 minutes later.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
there is about 10-15 seconds of running. not the prolonged chase that you guys are perceiving. the tape doesn't sound like some bloodthirsty racist, he's actually very calm and reporting a situation to the police.
I just think his fat ass ran out of breath and he had to slow down. He wasn't headed back to his truck, or the body wouldn't have been where it was.
your map is probably not correct (the paths, not the body placement). there are hundreds out there, and most of them have different routes.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fbcclist.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F03%2Ftrayvon-martin-george-zimmerman-map-with-911-call-timing.jpg&hash=845dc6550203ef2b8374b5895733eff63ed7056e)
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i can't find anything official from the police, so i assume that will come out in the trial.
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I'm not reaching at all. The state has the responsibility to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt and they cannot do that with the evidence provided. You all can say what you would have done or what you think/know what happened but none of us do. No eye witnesses saw these events from beginning to end, only bits and pieces. Zimmerman's injuries from their fight lead me to believe that he was acting in self defense. If you don't agree with that then so be it, that's your opinion.
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It wasn't HIS neighborhood, he was visiting
What makes it not HIS neighborhood? Zimmerman knew everyone in the complex and their relatives, friends, etc? Doubt it. You can admit he profiled him.
I thought he was from out of town and staying with relatives there. Correct me if I'm wrong though
So if your parents are divorced and you are over at your dad's place, it's not really your neighborhood?
Doesn't matter because he was visiting a family friend w/ his dad. It was not his house, and it was not his neighborhood
Its a gated neighborhood. They very fact that he's on the other side on the gate means that he belongs there.
So the people burglarizing the neighborhood belongeg there too? Or maybe they lived there?
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I'm not reaching at all. The state has the responsibility to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt and they cannot do that with the evidence provided. You all can say what you would have done or what you think/know what happened but none of us do. No eye witnesses saw these events from beginning to end, only bits and pieces. Zimmerman's injuries from their fight lead me to believe that he was acting in self defense. If you don't agree with that than so be it, that's your opinion.
You know the reason why he said Trayvon closed his mouth and pinched his nose right? Unless you're a 10 year old girl doing a pencil off a high dive, no one does that.
The reason he said Trayvon choked him like that is because there were no signs of strangulation on Zimmerman, none. Does the claim that he used this method of strangulation not give you reasonable doubt as to this claim?
Combine this with the fact that Zimmerman already lied under oath, testifying that he didn't have a penny to his name when in reality he had raised $150K in defense funds off his own website?
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I'm not reaching at all. The state has the responsibility to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt and they cannot do that with the evidence provided. You all can say what you would have done or what you think/know what happened but none of us do. No eye witnesses saw these events from beginning to end, only bits and pieces. Zimmerman's injuries from their fight lead me to believe that he was acting in self defense. If you don't agree with that than so be it, that's your opinion.
You know the reason why he said Trayvon closed his mouth and pinched his nose right? Unless you're a 10 year old girl doing a pencil off a high dive, no one does that.
The reason he said Trayvon choked him like that is because there were no signs of strangulation on Zimmerman, none. Does the claim that this method of strangulation not give you reasonable doubt as to this claim?
Combine this with the fact that Zimmerman already lied under oath, testifying that he didn't have a penny to his name when in reality he had raised $150K in defense funds off his own website?
I wonder how Zimmerman managed to scream help over and over while his nose was being held shut.
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I'm not reaching at all. The state has the responsibility to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt and they cannot do that with the evidence provided. You all can say what you would have done or what you think/know what happened but none of us do. No eye witnesses saw these events from beginning to end, only bits and pieces. Zimmerman's injuries from their fight lead me to believe that he was acting in self defense. If you don't agree with that than so be it, that's your opinion.
You know the reason why he said Trayvon closed his mouth and pinched his nose right? Unless you're a 10 year old girl doing a pencil off a high dive, no one does that.
The reason he said Trayvon choked him like that is because there were no signs of strangulation on Zimmerman, none. Does the claim that this method of strangulation not give you reasonable doubt as to this claim?
Combine this with the fact that Zimmerman already lied under oath, testifying that he didn't have a penny to his name when in reality he had raised $150K in defense funds off his own website?
The beauty of our legal system is that if you can't prove that, then it doesn't mean crap
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I think Zimmerman is a racist piece of crap and will be found not guilty due to lack of evidence. I mean, he killed the eyewitness.
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Started the day thinking ERII was a mediocre (at best) poster. Now know he is a mediocre (at best) person . :clac:
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Started the day thinking ERII was a mediocre (at best) poster. Now know he is a mediocre (at best) person . :clac:
Not gonna lie, this one stings a bit :frown:
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I'm not reaching at all. The state has the responsibility to PROVE beyond a reasonable doubt and they cannot do that with the evidence provided. You all can say what you would have done or what you think/know what happened but none of us do. No eye witnesses saw these events from beginning to end, only bits and pieces. Zimmerman's injuries from their fight lead me to believe that he was acting in self defense. If you don't agree with that than so be it, that's your opinion.
You know the reason why he said Trayvon closed his mouth and pinched his nose right? Unless you're a 10 year old girl doing a pencil off a high dive, no one does that.
The reason he said Trayvon choked him like that is because there were no signs of strangulation on Zimmerman, none. Does the claim that this method of strangulation not give you reasonable doubt as to this claim?
Combine this with the fact that Zimmerman already lied under oath, testifying that he didn't have a penny to his name when in reality he had raised $150K in defense funds off his own website?
The beauty of our legal system is that if you can't prove that, then it doesn't mean crap
Doesn't the burdon shift to Zimmerman since he's using a self defense plea? I have not followed this case that closely but that has been my understanding on this type of defense. Florida may be different though they seemed to have some messed up laws. I mean he killed an unarmed man and admitted as much, it seems to me he should have some burdon of to prove this.
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So that neighbors testimony that contradicts GZ's story that she just today mentioned in court. Someone wanna catch me up there?
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so congrats, shacks. These are your people.
Late reply, but I think he's guilty and deserves at least 20 years or so. That doesn't mean I can't also think the media is manipulating this for maximum outrage to generate the most sensationalism and revenue.
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I guess I'm a little with Shacks. I haven't paid too much attention to this, but why the fascination? I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but tons of murders happen every day.
Are people that interested in the gun control/Stand Your Ground ramifications of this, or are they just bored?
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I guess I'm a little with Shacks. I haven't paid too much attention to this, but why the fascination? I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but tons of murders happen every day.
Are people that interested in the gun control/Stand Your Ground ramifications of this, or are they just bored?
i think the race stuff is what caught the media's eye over the gun stuff.
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
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Doesn't the burdon shift to Zimmerman since he's using a self defense plea? I have not followed this case that closely but that has been my understanding on this type of defense. Florida may be different though they seemed to have some messed up laws. I mean he killed an unarmed man and admitted as much, it seems to me he should have some burdon of to prove this.
from a different bbs
This isn't true. Under Florida law, once a defendant makes a prima facie showing of self defense, the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant didn't act in self defense. Leasure v. State, 105 So. 3d 5, 12 (Fla. Ct. App. 2012). A defense meets this burden if it puts forward evidence that, unless rebutted, is sufficient to show self defense. State v. Kahler, 232 So. 2d 166, 168 (Fla. 1970). Prima facie is a low rough ridin' standard when the defendant is a witness.
Zimmerman's testimony will be sufficient for a prima facie showing of self defense, so the prosecutor is going to have to prove him wrong beyond a reasonable doubt. Since the only living witness is Zimmerman himself, that's a tough burden to meet.
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
Sums it up pretty well. Of course this is rough ridin' about race.
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Yeah i guess it's about race. Just seems odd.
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
It's a misrepresentation of what happened. The way some media outlets have covered this, you'd think a skinhead member of the Aryan Brotherhood took out a little kid. I don't think it's wrong to want just the facts instead of truthiness and bias.
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
I don't think the issue is that it's a "nice" picture. It's that the picture was of him as a child, while zimmerman's picture was a mugshot from a previous arrest. That's pretty weird.
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EDIT: Ok, just reread the initial post and it jogged my memory. I forgot about how Zimmerman was released after 5 hours without having been charged of anything. That was ridiculous.
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Do you know his age in that picture? I've heard 8, 4 and 10 so far.
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
I don't think the issue is that it's a "nice" picture. It's that the picture was of him as a child, while zimmerman's picture was a mugshot from a previous arrest. That's pretty weird.
Those weren't the only two goddam pictures being used.
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This would be a great psych study. Tell this story. Give one group the story where the murderer is a white person and the dead guy is a black person, give another group the same story but the murderer is a black person and the dead guy is a white person. Have the groups say what they think happened.
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Do you know his age in that picture? I've heard 8, 4 and 10 so far.
16
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/06/playing-games-with-trayvon-martins-image/
Also, that linked to this, LOL:
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jul/17/chain-email/real-photo-trayvon-martin-chain-email-says-so/
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Do you know his age in that picture? I've heard 8, 4 and 10 so far.
16
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2013/02/06/playing-games-with-trayvon-martins-image/
Also, that linked to this, LOL:
http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2012/jul/17/chain-email/real-photo-trayvon-martin-chain-email-says-so/
welp...
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This would be a great psych study. Tell this story. Give one group the story where the murderer is a white person and the dead guy is a black person, give another group the same story but the murderer is a black person and the dead guy is a white person. Have the groups say what they think happened.
Is Zimmerman white just because his last name is Zimmerman?
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This would be a great psych study. Tell this story. Give one group the story where the murderer is a white person and the dead guy is a black person, give another group the same story but the murderer is a black person and the dead guy is a white person. Have the groups say what they think happened.
Is Zimmerman white just because his last name is Zimmerman?
No it's For Science.
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Is the argument being presented that being "half Hispanic" means Zimmermann can't be racist? Is that what people are seriously trying to rough ridin' say?
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This would be a great psych study. Tell this story. Give one group the story where the murderer is a white person and the dead guy is a black person, give another group the same story but the murderer is a black person and the dead guy is a white person. Have the groups say what they think happened.
Is Zimmerman white just because his last name is Zimmerman?
I never said it had to be exactly like the story, I just think the idea of it is interesting. And by that I mean the results would be really, really sad.
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Look, I hate white people just as much as the next guy but... Actually thats all I really wanted to say.
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Look, I hate white people just as much as the next guy but... Actually thats all I really wanted to say.
:lol: classic applejack
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Is the argument being presented that being "half Hispanic" means Zimmermann can't be racist? Is that what people are seriously trying to rough ridin' say?
I don't know anything about that. I was wondering if his father was Hispanic rather than his mother, and his name were Jorge Hernandez, would there be the same perception of the entire episode?
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Here's Zimmerman's Myspace page about me,
I dont miss driving around scared to hit mexicans walkin on the side of the street, soft ass wanna be thugs messin with peoples cars when they aint around (what are you provin, that you can dent a car when no ones watchin) dont make you a man in my book. Workin 96 hours to get a decent pay check, gettin knifes pulled on you by every mexican you run into!”
and a post or two about his court proceedings,
Im still free! The ex hoe tried her hardest, but the judge saw through it! Big Mike, reppin the Dverse security makin me look a million bucks, broke her down! Thanks to everyone for checkin up on me! Stay tuned for the A.T.F. charges......
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Is the argument being presented that being "half Hispanic" means Zimmermann can't be racist? Is that what people are seriously trying to rough ridin' say?
no, it just complicates the story, so it was ignored during the initial reporting. and, of course, people with an interest in not observing white americans acting racist with respect to black americans very much didn't like that it was ignored because if they think of zimmerman as latino, then feel like they aren't being confronted with a white american acting racist with respect to a black american.
btw, you seem really hung up on zimmerman being racist. kinda weird considering he may or may not be racist, but he definitely killed a kid.
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Is the argument being presented that being "half Hispanic" means Zimmermann can't be racist? Is that what people are seriously trying to rough ridin' say?
no, it just complicates the story, so it was ignored during the initial reporting. and, of course, people with an interest in not observing white americans acting racist with respect to black americans very much didn't like that it was ignored because if they think of zimmerman as latino, then feel like they aren't being confronted with a white american acting racist with respect to a black american.
I don't think it complicates anything.
btw, you seem really hung up on zimmerman being racist. kinda weird considering he may or may not be racist, but he definitely killed a kid.
oh wait he killed a kid? thanks for clearing that up.
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FTR, lots of Hispanics hate black people more than racist white people.
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I don't think it complicates anything.
well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this). i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.
:lol:
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Seems to be a whole lot of very emotional, very poorly informed argument going on here, or exactly what I'd expect. It's an interesting case. I'd suggest everyone give the wiki article a read for starters.
Ultimately, this case is going to come down to three things: (1) what evidence is presented; (2) what evidence does the jury find credible; and (3) will the jury correctly apply the facts to the law? Nobody can predict ANY of these things with any certainty.
If I had to guess, I'd say Zimmerman is acquitted, for the simple reason that most of the eyewitnesses to the physical struggle, besides Zimmerman himself, will likely testify that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating the crap out of him, which appears to be consistent with Zimmerman's injuries, and with the bullet impact.
Whether Zimmerman "profiled" or "stalked" Martin is likely irrelevant to whether Zimmerman ultimately fired his weapon in self defense, at least if the jury correctly follows the law (and there is every indication that the prosecution is aggressively attempting to confuse this issue, which is troubling as a matter of due process). There just doesn't seem to be very strong evidence at all that would negate Zimmerman's argument of self defense beyond a reasonable doubt. Instead, the scant eyewitness evidence would generally seem to support it, but lets see what actually comes out at trial.
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I don't think it complicates anything.
well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this). i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.
:lol:
Yeah, I take my answer back. I don't think it complicates things, though, I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.
I'm still right about niggardly, though.
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Seems to be a whole lot of very emotional, very poorly informed argument going on here, or exactly what I'd expect...
Ultimately, this case is going to come down to three things: (1) what evidence is presented; (2) what evidence does the jury find credible; and (3) will the jury correctly apply the facts to the law? Nobody can predict ANY of these things with any certainty.
That's some hard hitting stuff, Mr. Snarky Pants.
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there is every indication that the prosecution is aggressively attempting to confuse this issue, which is troubling as a matter of due process.
pretty sure the judge, not the prosecution or the defense, has the responsibility to instruct the jury regarding the law, and to clarify if they suffer from any confusion.
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I take my answer back.
i love this about you. i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly. i know i can't.
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I take my answer back.
i love this about you. i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly. i know i can't.
I was vacuuming, which cleared my head. I doubt many posters here vacuum, they're mostly disgusting ballcap wearing slobs.
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I take my answer back.
i love this about you. i don't think many posters are capable of abandoning a position they'd just argued publicly, at least not so quickly. i know i can't.
Yes this is a very admirable quality to have.
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I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.
yeah, but it had already became a story before the half-hispanic element came up. neither the public nor the media is capable of about-facing and admitting that they no longer cared about how some kid got killed. besides, zimmerman's still half-white (and dougie's right, the ethnicity of his surname does matter).
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I don't think it complicates anything.
well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this). i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.
:lol:
Yeah, I take my answer back. I don't think it complicates things, though, I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.
I'm still right about niggardly, though.
I don't think he would have been arrested any sooner simply because it's the law in Florida, like it or not, that you can kill someone defending yourself. I think he may have been free longer without the pressure of the press whipping up the racist elements of the event. Would NBC have edited the 911 call to make an Hispanic seem racist? No.
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I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.
yeah, but it had already became a story before the half-hispanic element came up. neither the public nor the media is capable of about-facing and admitting that they no longer cared about how some kid got killed. besides, zimmerman's still half-white (and dougie's right, the ethnicity of his surname does matter).
It only became a major story mainly because it took several months to arrest him. I'm saying I don't think the police half-ass the investigation if Zimmerman has a hispanic name.
I'm not sure where you're going with the half-hispanic thing and the media - why is an "about-face" required? How does the knowledge that his mom hispanic mean they don't care about how some kid got killed?
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I don't think it complicates anything.
well lets, be honest, you're kinda Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) about a small number of things (niggardly, this). i mean it was just three posts ago you were talking about how of course the reason we're talking about this because of race, and then almost in the same breath you claim to think it doesn't matter (to the story) if zimmerman is white or not.
:lol:
Yeah, I take my answer back. I don't think it complicates things, though, I think it would make things much more simple. If Zimmerman were perceived to be hispanic, he's arrested immediately and the entire circus is avoided. No controversy about gun rights or black teens wearing hoodies, no enormous legal defense fund for Zimmerman, no running Trayvon's name through the mud. Zimmerman's just a simple murderer in that case.
I'm still right about niggardly, though.
I don't think he would have been arrested any sooner simply because it's the law in Florida, like it or not, that you can kill someone defending yourself. I think he may have been free longer without the pressure of the press whipping up the racist elements of the event. Would NBC have edited the 911 call to make an Hispanic seem racist? No.
In that case, it's still a huge racial issue because of the police/law.
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there is every indication that the prosecution is aggressively attempting to confuse this issue, which is troubling as a matter of due process.
pretty sure the judge, not the prosecution or the defense, has the responsibility to instruct the jury regarding the law, and to clarify if they suffer from any confusion.
Of course this is the judge's job. But that doesn't give the prosecution license to attempt to confuse the jurors. Like it or not, in our criminal justice system, we believe so strongly in preventing wrongful convictions that we hold the state to a higher standard. For the prosecution, it is not supposed to be about winning or losing, but about seeing justice fairly administered. Of course, it is naive to think that many, or any, prosecutors actually believe this. Anyway, this is getting off point.
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like, you said you don't think it complicates the issue, it makes it simpler. because it never would have been a story if he was hispanic (forget the half part for now, let's just deal in hypotheticals) so i tried to rebut that by saying it complicates the story rather than makes it simpler because it already became a story with the assumption that he was anglo (anglo with a german name, whatever, our ethnic labels were never meant to be accurate) and they were not going to decide to not care (the public) or to not cover (the media) the story after they'd already started.
"never mind, never mind, zimmerman's latino. squirrel!"
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like, you said you don't think it complicates the issue, it makes it simpler. because it never would have been a story if he was hispanic (forget the half part for now, let's just deal in hypotheticals) so i tried to rebut that by saying it complicates the story rather than makes it simpler because it already became a story with the assumption that he was anglo (anglo with a german name, whatever, our ethnic labels were never meant to be accurate) and they were not going to decide to not care (the public) or to not cover (the media) the story after they'd already started.
"never mind, never mind, zimmerman's latino. squirrel!"
I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.
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I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.
a necessary, but not sufficient, condition. i think we agree on that.
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I don't think the fact that the shooter was thought to be 100% pure Aryan was the only reason this was a story.
a necessary, but not sufficient, condition. i think we agree on that.
I disagree that it is necessary.
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I disagree that it is necessary.
it's contrarian full circle!
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I disagree that it is necessary.
it's contrarian full circle!
:lol:
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I disagree that it is necessary.
it's contrarian full circle!
Racism on the part of the police department is still a major story.
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i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore. in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.
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i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore. in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.
Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.
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i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore. in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.
Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.
Right, but even if Zimmerman was motivated by race, why do we care so much about this race motivated murder in particular? Not every murder motivated by race receives this kind of high profile attention. Maybe it should, but it doesn't. Which I think is why I was having a hard time grasping why this one in particular was so compelling on the national level.
Is it just residual interest from the original "not charging Zimmerman" issue? Kind of a "well this story captured our attention last summer so we're going to see this out" kind of thing?
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People are fascinated by it because a young black teen was targeted by a vigilante (possibly for being a young black teen) shot and killed. Yes there is racial issue here. Don't be dumbasses. But, complaining because they use a nice picture of him is rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). When someone is murdered you don't pick their sluttiest or drunkest Facebook picture you can find to show the world. I mean, people are actually complaining that the murderer isn't portrayed as more Hispanic? Could someone not find a rough ridin' picture of him in a sombrero?
I don't think the issue is that it's a "nice" picture. It's that the picture was of him as a child, while zimmerman's picture was a mugshot from a previous arrest. That's pretty weird.
Those weren't the only two goddam pictures being used.
This reminds me of whole New Orleans Lootie thing.
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i agree michigancat, but nobody's talking about "police department racism" anymore. in fact, just today i forgot that was even an element to the story, let alone the only reason this story received any national publicity in the first place.
Yeah, people are talking about his motivations for killing Trayvon.
Right, but even if Zimmerman was motivated by race, why do we care so much about this race motivated murder in particular? Not every murder motivated by race receives this kind of high profile attention. Maybe it should, but it doesn't. Which I think is why I was having a hard time grasping why this one in particular was so compelling on the national level.
Is it just residual interest from the original "not charging Zimmerman" issue? Kind of a "well this story captured our attention last summer so we're going to see this out" kind of thing?
All of the above plus the attention to the stand your ground law, the 911 call, the somewhat shaky evidence for the prosecution. On top of that, it really isn't normal for someone walking down the street to be confronted and murdered by a stranger (of any race). Do you honestly not find this case particularly unique or interesting?
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I mean, what if the defense proves that Trayvon was quarter Jewish or something. What a twist that would be!
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how often are neighborhood watch people confronted and beaten? :dunno:
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Yeah i guess it's about race. Just seems odd.
It's about more than race. The community of Sanford had to basically convince the police department to look into the situation further. The police didn't make an arrest for months, and the public started getting pissed. An unarmed teenager was killed in the middle of the night by another civilian, and people wanted justice.
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I mean, what if the defense proves that Trayvon was quarter Jewish or something. What a twist that would be!
lol
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It's a story because zimmerman killed a guy and seemingly was not seriously investigated.
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It's a story because zimmerman killed a guy and seemingly was not seriously investigated.
And that also seems to be why many people, including many on this board, are so quick to demonize Zimmerman. It seems that he was not thoroughly investigated, and that he should have been arrested, and that race played an angle in the shooting and subsequent decision not to arrest. These suspicions are borderline.
According to evidence presented in trial yesterday, in the prosecution's case on cross exam, Zimmerman was considered by the Sanford PD to be an exemplary neighborhood watch captain. He had a long history of reporting suspicious behavior in a professional manner. The Sanford PD thought so highly of him that they offered to make him a Citizen on Patrol, or quasi police officer, a position that Zimmerman declined. Hardly the act of a vigilante. Put that together with Zimmerman's injuries, which were consistent with his story, which was generally consistent with the scant eye witness interviews, Zimmerman's demeanor, and the fact that he passed a lie detector test, and the Sanford PD did not believe they had probable cause to arrest.
So maybe instead of bitching and moaning about whether Zimmerman should have been arrested, we should just follow the trial, learn some more about the case, and see if he's guilty.
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It's a story because zimmerman killed a guy and seemingly was not seriously investigated.
And that also seems to be why many people, including many on this board, are so quick to demonize Zimmerman.
I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
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Everyone is missing the major point here. This 30 something year old man got his ass whooped, allegedly, by a 16 year old boy. I mean come one man have some respect for yourself.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This is appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Correct, he isn't using the SYG defense
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A lot of dumbasses in this thread that I hope never serve on a jury
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
I had never even heard of SYG prior to this. Most people hadn't. This has already drawn a ton of attention to it.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
I agree. I really don't think Zimmerman would have chased Trayvon down if he didn't think he would be able to shoot him and then get away scot free.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
I agree. I really don't think Zimmerman would have chased Trayvon down if he didn't think he would be able to shoot him and then get away scot free.
Why do you think that? I'm sure that was going through his head, "man, I bet I can chase this kid down, shoot him, and get away with it scot free!"
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
yep
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
I agree. I really don't think Zimmerman would have chased Trayvon down if he didn't think he would be able to shoot him and then get away scot free.
Why do you think that? I'm sure that was going through his head, "man, I bet I can chase this kid down, shoot him, and get away with it scot free!"
I think it's the entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch. Why else would he carry a gun around?
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
I agree. I really don't think Zimmerman would have chased Trayvon down if he didn't think he would be able to shoot him and then get away scot free.
Why do you think that? I'm sure that was going through his head, "man, I bet I can chase this kid down, shoot him, and get away with it scot free!"
I think it's the entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch. Why else would he carry a gun around?
The entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch was to be able to kill random African American youth?
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A lot of dumbasses in this thread that I hope never serve on a jury
It looks like GPC's world forum is unanimously on your side.
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The entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch was to be able to kill random African American youth?
I'm sure race played some role, but he probably would have settled for killing just about anybody.
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The entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch was to be able to kill random African American youth?
I'm sure race played some role, but he probably would have settled for killing just about anybody.
Oh ok, that makes sense. JFC
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Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no reason
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The entire reason he wanted to be on neighborhood watch was to be able to kill random African American youth?
I'm sure race played some role, but he probably would have settled for killing just about anybody.
Oh ok, that makes sense. JFC
I know it seems far fetched, but we are talking about somebody who chased down a 17 year old kid to start a fight, then got punched once in the face and had his nose pinched, so he decided to just shoot the kid. He's also a wife beater and was arrested for fighting a police officer. He's just lucky that they hold a higher standard for what constitutes self defense than you.
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Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no the slightest reason.
I'd put it at 30%. Add in his neighborhood watch position (while carrying said gun) and it has to be about 70%.
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:horrorsurprise:
Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no reason
I think KK and NK are just pulling your leg. Nobody could really believe that SYG had anything to do with Zimmerman killing Martin. Good one guys. :lol:
I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
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Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no reason
QFT
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It's a story because zimmerman killed a guy and seemingly was not seriously investigated.
And that also seems to be why many people, including many on this board, are so quick to demonize Zimmerman. It seems that he was not thoroughly investigated, and that he should have been arrested, and that race played an angle in the shooting and subsequent decision not to arrest. These suspicions are borderline.
According to evidence presented in trial yesterday, in the prosecution's case on cross exam, Zimmerman was considered by the Sanford PD to be an exemplary neighborhood watch captain. He had a long history of reporting suspicious behavior in a professional manner. The Sanford PD thought so highly of him that they offered to make him a Citizen on Patrol, or quasi police officer, a position that Zimmerman declined. Hardly the act of a vigilante. Put that together with Zimmerman's injuries, which were consistent with his story, which was generally consistent with the scant eye witness interviews, Zimmerman's demeanor, and the fact that he passed a lie detector test, and the Sanford PD did not believe they had probable cause to arrest.
So maybe instead of bitching and moaning about whether Zimmerman should have been arrested, we should just follow the trial, learn some more about the case, and see if he's guilty.
Wait and see! Whatever, Currie.
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In America you are innocent until proven guilty. You are also allowed to protect your life liberty and property.
The fact that so many of you want this to be some Hispanic on black racial thing is perverse, and demonstrative of how delirious and evil the left has become. Just like the Nazis.
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I'm personally demonizing him because I think he profiled a black unarmed teen for being a black teen, stalked and killed him. I'm also interested in it not only because of him not being investigated but also because Florida has such dumbfuck gun laws (not his fault) that I think this can draw some attention to. This thing has a lot of layers.
I'm pretty sure Florida's Stand Your Ground law is not going to have any impact here. I doubt the defense counsel will even request an instruction on it. SYG simply qualifies the traditional doctrine of self defense to say that you don't have to try to flee before using lethal force. If the evidence is that Zimmerman was pinned under Martin, then he couldn't flee anyway. If, however, Zimmerman was on top of Martin, this probably wouldn't even meet the threshold of self defense, so again, SYG would not apply.
This appears to be just a traditional case of self defense (whether valid or not), and will not implicate any special gun laws.
Whether or not Stand Your Ground is going to have an impact on the trial, I think it is possible it had an impact on the events of that night. Which is the entire reason why lots of people thought it was a bad law in the first place.
I agree. I really don't think Zimmerman would have chased Trayvon down if he didn't think he would be able to shoot him and then get away scot free.
Why do you think that? I'm sure that was going through his head, "man, I bet I can chase this kid down, shoot him, and get away with it scot free!"
For the record, I don't think this. I think he was a scared paranoid man that "would be damned if he was going to stand by and let the criminals or anyone take what was his or his neighbors". Not that I disagree with protecting what is yours, but this is the rallying cry for the scared paranoid gun toter as of late.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
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The woman on the stand right now is a complete rough ridin' moron
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:horrorsurprise:Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no reason
I think KK and NK are just pulling your leg. Nobody could really believe that SYG had anything to do with Zimmerman killing Martin. Good one guys. :lol:
I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
yeah, if this case has proven anything it is that sanford pd is a model dept and always has the best judgment
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For the record, I don't think this. I think he was a scared paranoid man that "would be damned if he was going to stand by and let the criminals or anyone take what was his or his neighbors". Not that I disagree with protecting what is yours, but this is the rallying cry for the scared paranoid gun toter as of late.
Paranoid? I don't see this. Seems that there had been quite a few break ins in that neighborhood.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
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whatever the race.. cray crays are gonna cray
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
:dubious:
Was joking
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For the record, I don't think this. I think he was a scared paranoid man that "would be damned if he was going to stand by and let the criminals or anyone take what was his or his neighbors". Not that I disagree with protecting what is yours, but this is the rallying cry for the scared paranoid gun toter as of late.
Paranoid? I don't see this. Seems that there had been quite a few break ins in that neighborhood.
Quite a few? How many? I honesty don't know.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
:dubious:
Was joking
Heh. Sorry dude.
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For the record, I don't think this. I think he was a scared paranoid man that "would be damned if he was going to stand by and let the criminals or anyone take what was his or his neighbors". Not that I disagree with protecting what is yours, but this is the rallying cry for the scared paranoid gun toter as of late.
Paranoid? I don't see this. Seems that there had been quite a few break ins in that neighborhood.
Quite a few? How many? I honesty don't know.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html)
The burglary of Olivia Bertalan’s home was just one of at least eight reported over the previous 14 months—several of which, neighbors said, involved young black men.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thedailybeast.com%2Fcontent%2Fdailybeast%2Farticles%2F2012%2F03%2F28%2Fzimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting%2F_jcr_content%2Fbody%2Finlineimage.img.503.jpg%2F1337256000000.cached.jpg&hash=73114af99ea6834a786994bebceaae83f2fb79bb)
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
there's a myriad of reasons why zimmerman could have turned down the citizen patrol gig. fewer are the reasons why he would decide he needed to shoot a 16 yr old that he had engaged in a fight.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
there's a myriad of reasons why zimmerman could have turned down the citizen patrol gig. fewer are the reasons why he would decide he needed to shoot a 16 yr old that he had engaged in a fight.
My guess is he wouldn't have been allowed to carry his gun so he turned it down. Of course it was against the rules of the neighborhood watch program to carry guns on patrol as well.
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For the record, I don't think this. I think he was a scared paranoid man that "would be damned if he was going to stand by and let the criminals or anyone take what was his or his neighbors". Not that I disagree with protecting what is yours, but this is the rallying cry for the scared paranoid gun toter as of late.
Paranoid? I don't see this. Seems that there had been quite a few break ins in that neighborhood.
Quite a few? How many? I honesty don't know.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/28/zimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting.html)
The burglary of Olivia Bertalan’s home was just one of at least eight reported over the previous 14 months—several of which, neighbors said, involved young black men.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fcdn.thedailybeast.com%2Fcontent%2Fdailybeast%2Farticles%2F2012%2F03%2F28%2Fzimmerman-s-twin-lakes-community-was-on-edge-before-trayvon-shooting%2F_jcr_content%2Fbody%2Finlineimage.img.503.jpg%2F1337256000000.cached.jpg&hash=73114af99ea6834a786994bebceaae83f2fb79bb)
That particular one is pretty mumped up and a great example of when such force should have been used.
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Its called neighborhood watch not neighborhood shoot.
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Allows eight robberies in 14 months, kills innocent teenager. Seems like a pretty shitty neighborhood watchman.
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Allows eight robberies in 14 months, kills innocent teenager. Seems like a pretty shitty neighborhood watchman.
sanford pd thinks otherwise Krusty
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
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Allows eight robberies in 14 months, kills innocent teenager. Seems like a pretty shitty neighborhood watchman.
But we don't know how many murders he got away with and covered up while preventing robberies
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Did Sanford PD offer Zimmermann a gun with the car? That may be another reason he turned it down.
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
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I think it bears repeating that the Sanford PD thought highly enough of Zimmerman that they recruited him to be a Citizen on Patrol, which would have come with a car and a quasi police uniform. He turned it down. Talk about power hungry! He obviously heard somewhere about this SYG law and thought "neat! I'm gonna go kill me a black guy!"
i think you're a dumbass if you blindly value the opinion of the sanford PD.
Police apologist outed. fantastic job, clams.
It's the fact that he turned it down that's interesting to me. Reading comprehenshun.
there's a myriad of reasons why zimmerman could have turned down the citizen patrol gig. fewer are the reasons why he would decide he needed to shoot a 16 yr old that he had engaged in a fight.
My guess is he wouldn't have been allowed to carry his gun so he turned it down. Of course it was against the rules of the neighborhood watch program to carry guns on patrol as well.
That's not true, per yesterday's testimony. The NWP does not prohibit the carrying of firearms.
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
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Maybe he figured he wouldn't pass the background check :dunno:
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
Two similarities and one difference!
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Ouch. The state's one "eye witness" to testify that Zimmerman was on top admits that she didn't reach this conclusion until after seeing the initial news coverage, and reached her conclusion only based on the body sizes portrayed in the news coverage. Initial news coverage seems to have generally been displaying Martin as an 8 year old boy.
Will be interesting if this now opens the door for the defense to get into the ridiculous initial news coverage - if they want to...
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Ouch. The state's one "eye witness" to testify that Zimmerman was on top admits that she didn't reach this conclusion until after seeing the initial news coverage, and reached her conclusion only based on the body sizes portrayed in the news coverage. Initial news coverage seems to have generally been displaying Martin as an 8 year old boy.
Will be interesting if this now opens the door for the defense to get into the ridiculous initial news coverage - if they want to...
Oh man. Zimm is going to be :dance: tonight!
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
Batman doesn't even use a gun.
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
Batman doesn't even use a gun.
batman hasnt gained 40 lbs this past year
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
Batman doesn't even use a gun.
batman hasnt gained 40 lbs this past year
Batman didn't beat his fiancee.
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Ouch. The state's one "eye witness" to testify that Zimmerman was on top admits that she didn't reach this conclusion until after seeing the initial news coverage, and reached her conclusion only based on the body sizes portrayed in the news coverage. Initial news coverage seems to have generally been displaying Martin as an 8 year old boy.
Will be interesting if this now opens the door for the defense to get into the ridiculous initial news coverage - if they want to...
Oh man. Zimm is going to be :dance: tonight!
This is not good for state. Their only "eye witness" testimony that Zimmerman was on top has been effectively gutted, and will likely be countered by several other witnesses for the defense that Martin was on top. On cross, Manolo admits that she judged Martin's size based on news reports after the fact, and the pictures she used were of Martin in a football uniform (when he was 12 or 13) and of him in a hoodie (which was face only). She now says she might be wrong about size and who was on top.
I'd like to say I'm surprised the prosecution would proceed with such a thin witness, but I'm not.
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I really don't think my life would be in danger if some kid I outweighed by 100 pounds were on top of me grabbing my nose. :dunno:
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Also, I think Zimmermann turned down the Sanford PD offer because even he didn't want to look like a huge mega dork
How many ride alongs do you think Batman does? rough ridin' zero, that's how many.
Batman, like Zimmerman, was not a vigilante, obviously.
Batman, unlike Zimmerman, doesn't kill people.
Batman doesn't even use a gun.
batman hasnt gained 40 lbs this past year
CNN reporting 126#. Makes him seem more guilty. Fat ppl love to shoot skinny ppl.
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Fat ppl love to shoot skinny ppl.
i anticipate hearing this verbatim in the state's closing.
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I'd put on a lot of weight too if I knew I was about to receive a lengthy prison sentence. Ain't no La Hacienda or So Long in the slammer, gotta live it up while you're free. Plus, he can work it all off over the next 20 years.
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Fat ppl love to shoot skinny ppl.
i anticipate hearing this verbatim in the state's closing.
state: knock knock
jury: who's there?
state: george zimmerman i'm fat and i want to shoot kids who beat me up
jury: omg?wtf?bbq?hax?
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
Sorry, a bag of skittles and an iced tea don't qualify as weapons.
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get him, beems
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
Sorry, a bag of skittles and an iced tea don't qualify as weapons.
Let's break it down to the simplest form possible and draw conclusions from that!!
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I think the clarion call here should be that okcat is the voice of reason in this thread.
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I think the clarion call here should be that okcat is the voice of reason in this thread.
thanks i think
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Martin to friend on phone, "he's a creepy ass cracka"
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Then Martin calls him the n-word. But Zimm is the racist :lol:
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Then Martin calls him the n-word. But Zimm is the racist :lol:
he killed a guy
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hispanic/black relations are notoriously bad.
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
Sorry, a bag of skittles and an iced tea don't qualify as weapons.
Let's break it down to the simplest form possible and draw conclusions from that!!
I'm not drawing any conclusions. The fact is that an unarmed teenager was murdered by another civilian on his way home from buying skittles and iced tea.
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
Sorry, a bag of skittles and an iced tea don't qualify as weapons.
Let's break it down to the simplest form possible and draw conclusions from that!!
I'm not drawing any conclusions. The fact is that an unarmed teenager was murdered by another civilian on his way home from buying skittles and iced tea.
But you are, and the fact is a whole bunch of other stuff happened in between. It's kind of important
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Trayvon deserved to be shot even if he was a robber.
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
:facepalm:
Sorry, a bag of skittles and an iced tea don't qualify as weapons.
Let's break it down to the simplest form possible and draw conclusions from that!!
I'm not drawing any conclusions. The fact is that an unarmed teenager was murdered by another civilian on his way home from buying skittles and iced tea.
But you are, and the fact is a whole bunch of other stuff happened in between. It's kind of important
All of the stuff that happened in between would not have happened if a certain gun nut didn't get out of his car and try to play cop.
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I'm going to go out on a limb and say I don't think Trayvon deserved to be shot even if he was a robber.
agreed. I also don't think he deserved to get shot if he beat up the zimmerman guy.
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the only scenario that i could see him getting shot is if he pulled a gun on zimms old-west style.
otherwise, murder.
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Every person that has a concealed carry license is obviously just waiting for the opportunity to blast someone in the face for no the slightest reason.
I'd put it at 30%. Add in his neighborhood watch position (while carrying said gun) and it has to be about 70%.
Well the Secretary of State in Kansas is in the % whatever it is.
Kobach’s true colors were revealed last week, when stripped of his pseudo-civility, he revealed a meaner side.
His deep hostility toward illegal immigration prompted a peaceful, though obnoxious, protest of more than 200 people at his home. That was an inappropriate place to protest, but Kobach’s reaction was telling – and terrifying.
Kobach said he would consider using “lethal force” to keep them at bay.
http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/22/4306439/kris-kobach-so-smart-and-so-very.html (http://www.kansascity.com/2013/06/22/4306439/kris-kobach-so-smart-and-so-very.html)
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Would you be ok with shooting this guy?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2013/06/25/early-home-invasion-on-tape.cnn
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Would you be ok with shooting this guy?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2013/06/25/early-home-invasion-on-tape.cnn
because he's black?
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Would you be ok with shooting this guy?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2013/06/25/early-home-invasion-on-tape.cnn
Not for walking down the street.
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Eh, I thought you guys were just purely saying it would never be ok to shoot someone beating you/someone else up. Probably a misinterpretation on my part.
Is it possible that Zim was just trying to stop TM to ask him who he was and what business he had there because he did fit the profile of previous break in reports and that TM did get pissed off about it and started beating up Zim and he defended himself, albeit, extremely?
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If you aren't on your own property, and the guy is unarmed, it would have to be a very extreme case for me to ever be able to justify deadly force.
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Would you be ok with shooting this guy?
http://www.cnn.com/video/?/video/crime/2013/06/25/early-home-invasion-on-tape.cnn
Not for walking down the street.
or for beating up some old guy who was following him around while he was on his walk
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Is it possible Trayvon thought George was a murderer was defending himself?
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Is it possible Trayvon thought George was a murderer was defending himself?
Yeah. It's also possible he thought George was going to try to mug him. There had been a lot of robberies at that complex recently, after all.
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We all know Martin was not armed, Zimmerman didn't have the luxury of knowing that piece of information at the time
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We all know Martin was not armed, Zimmerman didn't have the luxury of knowing that piece of information at the time
oh, ok. fire away then.
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We all know Martin was not armed, Zimmerman didn't have the luxury of knowing that piece of information at the time
i am gonna start blasting people with my piece just in case
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We all know Martin was not armed, Zimmerman didn't have the luxury of knowing that piece of information at the time
i am gonna start blasting people with my piece just in case
Zimmerman was so scared for his life that he got out of his car, chased down Martin, and killed him.
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http://lockerz.com/u/20543583/decalz/6171661/it_s_coming_right_for_us_clips_south
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
great point. and we all know that once a gun is pulled, it must taste blood.
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
You can say that about any murder ever committed.
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ya know, if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a gun there might not have been a murder. Just something to ponder this afternoon.
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ya know, if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a gun there might not have been a murder. Just something to ponder this afternoon.
GZ didn't kill Martin, the gun killed Martin.
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ya know, if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a gun there might not have been a murder. Just something to ponder this afternoon.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.montgomerycollege.edu%2F%7Eszimmerman%2Ffiles%2Ftrick_files%2Fimage002.gif&hash=e52a9c5d52c9b94617fb319add07b31e667dea5a)
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ya know, if Zimmerman wasn't carrying a gun there might not have been a murder. Just something to ponder this afternoon.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.montgomerycollege.edu%2F%7Eszimmerman%2Ffiles%2Ftrick_files%2Fimage002.gif&hash=e52a9c5d52c9b94617fb319add07b31e667dea5a)
I bet neither one of them would have been murdered.
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
OMG
:lol: :lol: :lol:
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He could have turned into a liquid human if he was the bad guy in Terminator 2, dumbasses!
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watching the prosecutor's star witness. I think they are losing.
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She's been very rude to the defense attorney
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it's interesting that you guy DO think TM was justified to beat a man just because he called the police about him and kept an eye on him (while doing nothing illegal).
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it's interesting that you guy DO think TM was justified to beat a man just because he called the police about him and kept an eye on him (while doing nothing illegal).
yeah, tons of people have said that exact thing in this thread. good point seven.
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
great point. and we all know that once a gun is pulled, it must taste blood.
I don't know if it must taste blood, but according to the unrefuted evidence, Martin said that it most certainly was going to.
Don't get me wrong, Zimm sounds like a pos, but I see ERiI's point with regard to the evidence that is there and the standard for finding someone guilty of murder.
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knock knock
who's there
seven
seven who
seven who thinks people here think TM was justified to beat a man just because he called the police about him and kept an eye on him (while doing nothing illegal)
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
great point. and we all know that once a gun is pulled, it must taste blood.
I don't know if it must taste blood, but according to the unrefuted evidence, Martin said that it most certainly was going to.
Don't get me wrong, Zimm sounds like a pos, but I see ERiI's point with regard to the evidence that is there and the standard for finding someone guilty of murder.
I wasn't aware that he possessed the gun at any point. This is new information for me.
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
great point. and we all know that once a gun is pulled, it must taste blood.
I don't know if it must taste blood, but according to the unrefuted evidence, Martin said that it most certainly was going to.
Don't get me wrong, Zimm sounds like a pos, but I see ERiI's point with regard to the evidence that is there and the standard for finding someone guilty of murder.
yeah, lots of folks (myself included) have said that Zimmerman will probably be found not guilty you dopes.
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If you aren't on your own property, and the guy is unarmed, it would have to be a very extreme case for me to ever be able to justify deadly force.
I've seen the bloody pictures of the front and back of Zimmerman's head, and I've read the interviews of some of the eyewitnesses describing Martin pinning Zimmerman down and punching the crap out of him. Of thats what happened, then it seems pretty extreme to me.
Now, if you're Zimmerman, are you thinking at that point: "golly, I wonder if this is extreme enough for me to shoot this guy?" Probably not. You'd probably shoot him. Or at least you pull your piece and tell him to back the eff off, and pray he doesn't grab it from you. Personally, I'd rather pull the trigger than take that chance.
And please, save the oh so predictable response "we'll I wouldn't have stalked the kid and started a fight with him." Ive not yet seen a shred of evidence that Zimmerman started the physical altercation, and there's nothing wrong with asking a stranger what they're doing in your neighborhood. If there was, this would be a much easier case for the state.
As for the "skittles and ice tea aren't a weapon" tripe, jfc. Martins fists evidently were weapons, unless you're also suggesting Zimmermam did that to himself.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fcommons%2F8%2F8a%2FSkittles_Original.jpg&hash=2c11962038d47800bb3bd86aa326030b216a5796)
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He would have been armed if he could have grabbed Zimm's gun when he was on top of him beating his ass but he didn't let that happen, dumbasses
great point. and we all know that once a gun is pulled, it must taste blood.
I don't know if it must taste blood, but according to the unrefuted evidence, Martin said that it most certainly was going to.
Don't get me wrong, Zimm sounds like a pos, but I see ERiI's point with regard to the evidence that is there and the standard for finding someone guilty of murder.
yeah, lots of folks (myself included) have said that Zimmerman will probably be found not guilty you dopes.
Yeah, he will get off. Certainly doesn't help anyone's case that all our key witnesses are Floridians.
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
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If you aren't on your own property, and the guy is unarmed, it would have to be a very extreme case for me to ever be able to justify deadly force.
I've seen the bloody pictures of the front and back of Zimmerman's head, and I've read the interviews of some of the eyewitnesses describing Martin pinning Zimmerman down and punching the crap out of him. Of thats what happened, then it seems pretty extreme to me.
Now, if you're Zimmerman, are you thinking at that point: "golly, I wonder if this is extreme enough for me to shoot this guy?" Probably not. You'd probably shoot him. Or at least you pull your piece and tell him to back the eff off, and pray he doesn't grab it from you. Personally, I'd rather pull the trigger than take that chance.
And please, save the oh so predictable response "we'll I wouldn't have stalked the kid and started a fight with him." Ive not yet seen a shred of evidence that Zimmerman started the physical altercation, and there's nothing wrong with asking a stranger what they're doing in your neighborhood. If there was, this would be a much easier case for the state.
As for the "skittles and ice tea aren't a weapon" tripe, jfc. Martins fists evidently were weapons, unless you're also suggesting Zimmermam did that to himself.
If I'm zimmerman I don't have a gun and I leave him the eff alone after the 911 operator tells me to leave him the eff alone. Actually I probably don't do anything but drive my fat half-hispanic ass home.
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
have you fallen down recently or something?
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
have you fallen down recently or something?
yeah, it's really baffling
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
Well, we don't really have any idea what happened since the only witness is a violent, lying, woman beating murderer, but if Trayvon did indeed attack Zimmerman first, I would certainly hope the police would have charged him with misdemeanor assault.
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Let's just go back to the first post of this wonderful thread:
“This is all very unsettling. I’m sure if George Zimmerman had the opportunity to relive Sunday, Feb. 26, he’d probably do things differently. I’m sure Trayvon would, too.”
Yeah, the dead kid probably made a mistake could have handled things differently. It really makes ya think, doesn't it?
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
Well, we don't really have any idea what happened since the only witness is a violent, lying, woman beating murderer, but if Trayvon did indeed attack Zimmerman first, I would certainly hope the police would have charged him with misdemeanor assault.
There are plenty of witnesses to at least portions of the fight. Some are currently testifying for the state. Others will testify for the defense.
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all this nonsense about how GZ was the only instigator. oh he shouldn't have had a gun, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, he shouldn't have called the police on a young child.
yes, all of those things could have probably prevented this. TM deciding to call the police or go home would have prevented this too. instead he chose to make the altercation physical. but all of you pretend that he had no part in getting shot. TM stays at a distance or calls the police and zimmerman doesn't shoot him (if he did, then zimmerman would be guilty of murder)
my view on people carrying guns is pretty liberal, i don't understand the need for them and don't want people around me carrying me, and i don't think TM deserved to be shot. but i'm also against beating people, which unfortunately has the consequence of sometimes getting you shot.
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The last sentence is silly
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
Well, we don't really have any idea what happened since the only witness is a violent, lying, woman beating murderer, but if Trayvon did indeed attack Zimmerman first, I would certainly hope the police would have charged him with misdemeanor assault.
There are plenty of witnesses to at least portions of the fight. Some are currently testifying for the state. Others will testify for the defense.
In that case, it's probably best not to claim anything about the fight as "fact" yet, right?
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
Well, we don't really have any idea what happened since the only witness is a violent, lying, woman beating murderer, but if Trayvon did indeed attack Zimmerman first, I would certainly hope the police would have charged him with misdemeanor assault.
There are plenty of witnesses to at least portions of the fight. Some are currently testifying for the state. Others will testify for the defense.
None of them saw how it started. What we do know is that Zimmerman claims he was walking back to his truck but somehow ended up shooting Trayvon in an area that wasn't very near his truck that he had absolutely no business being in.
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all this nonsense about how GZ was the only instigator. oh he shouldn't have had a gun, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, he shouldn't have called the police on a young child.
yes, all of those things could have probably prevented this. TM deciding to call the police or go home would have prevented this too. instead he chose to make the altercation physical. but all of you pretend that he had no part in getting shot. TM stays at a distance or calls the police and zimmerman doesn't shoot him (if he did, then zimmerman would be guilty of murder)
my view on people carrying guns is pretty liberal, i don't understand the need for them and don't want people around me carrying me, and i don't think TM deserved to be shot. but i'm also against beating people, which unfortunately has the consequence of sometimes getting you shot.
you forgot to add that drunk girls put themselves in the position to be raped.
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It's really sad that there are actually people in this country who think that stalking down and murdering an unarmed teenager for "looking suspicious" is somehow justified.
In that case, it's probably best not to claim anything about the fight as "fact" yet, right?
maybe it's best not to claim your first post as "fact" yet, right?
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Oh so Martin's friend on the stand is a compulsive liar. Good to know
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Pls summarize. Not watching.
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Oh so Martin's friend on the stand is a compulsive liar. Good to know
The defense is actually doing a really poor job of painting that picture. How in the hell are you a Bill Maher fan? Bill O'Reilly seems more like your style.
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Catching bits and pieces at work but she told multiple lies about herself to investigators while being interviewed
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Oh so Martin's friend on the stand is a compulsive liar. Good to know
The defense is actually doing a really poor job of painting that picture. How in the hell are you a Bill Maher fan? Bill O'Reilly seems more like your style.
I'll take that as an insult sir
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Pls summarize. Not watching.
The defense is trying to portray one of the key witnesses as a liar, because (1) she lied about her age (she said she was 16 instead of 18 so she could have a minor's privacy rights), and (2) lied to Trayvon's mom about why she wasn't at his funeral (she said that she was at the hospital). She's the last person to talk to Martin before he was killed (besides Zimmerman), and she said that Martin told her that he was being chased by a creepy white dude.
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Her neck is wider than her head
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Her neck is wider than her head
If the neck exceeds in width, you must acquit
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I don't believe a word this liar says
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Her neck is wider than her head
If the neck exceeds in width, you must acquit
:lol:
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Pls summarize. Not watching.
The defense is trying to portray one of the key witnesses as a liar, because (1) she lied about her age (she said she was 16 instead of 18 so she could have a minor's privacy rights), and (2) lied to Trayvon's mom about why she wasn't at his funeral (she said that she was at the hospital). She's the last person to talk to Martin before he was killed (besides Zimmerman), and she said that Martin told her that he was being chased by a creepy white dude.
They'll remove her statement from the trial then.
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Pls summarize. Not watching.
The defense is trying to portray one of the key witnesses as a liar, because (1) she lied about her age (she said she was 16 instead of 18 so she could have a minor's privacy rights), and (2) lied to Trayvon's mom about why she wasn't at his funeral (she said that she was at the hospital). She's the last person to talk to Martin before he was killed (besides Zimmerman), and she said that Martin told her that he was being chased by a creepy white dude.
They'll remove her statement from the trial then.
heh
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Can't wait until a completely acceptable line of thinking is, "I had a gun. I shot an unarmed person because they could have gotten to my gun and shot me. So.....self defense."
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They'll remove her statement from the trial then.
how are they going to do that?
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Not sure, it sounded good though, but if they find her statement false, she is mumped and I believe they tell the jury to ignore the statements made by the witness. :dunno:
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all this nonsense about how GZ was the only instigator. oh he shouldn't have had a gun, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, he shouldn't have called the police on a young child.
yes, all of those things could have probably prevented this. TM deciding to call the police or go home would have prevented this too. instead he chose to make the altercation physical. but all of you pretend that he had no part in getting shot. TM stays at a distance or calls the police and zimmerman doesn't shoot him (if he did, then zimmerman would be guilty of murder)
my view on people carrying guns is pretty liberal, i don't understand the need for them and don't want people around me carrying me, and i don't think TM deserved to be shot. but i'm also against beating people, which unfortunately has the consequence of sometimes getting you shot.
No one is saying that. That's called a strawman
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Not currently watching, but how are her "court nails"? Man, I bet she's gonna get like, totally high after this is all done.
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Not currently watching, but how are her "court nails"? Man, I bet she's gonna get like, totally high after this is all done.
wut
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half racist, half valleygirlist
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If you aren't on your own property, and the guy is unarmed, it would have to be a very extreme case for me to ever be able to justify deadly force.
I've seen the bloody pictures of the front and back of Zimmerman's head, and I've read the interviews of some of the eyewitnesses describing Martin pinning Zimmerman down and punching the crap out of him. Of thats what happened, then it seems pretty extreme to me.
Now, if you're Zimmerman, are you thinking at that point: "golly, I wonder if this is extreme enough for me to shoot this guy?" Probably not. You'd probably shoot him. Or at least you pull your piece and tell him to back the eff off, and pray he doesn't grab it from you. Personally, I'd rather pull the trigger than take that chance.
And please, save the oh so predictable response "we'll I wouldn't have stalked the kid and started a fight with him." Ive not yet seen a shred of evidence that Zimmerman started the physical altercation, and there's nothing wrong with asking a stranger what they're doing in your neighborhood. If there was, this would be a much easier case for the state.
As for the "skittles and ice tea aren't a weapon" tripe, jfc. Martins fists evidently were weapons, unless you're also suggesting Zimmermam did that to himself.
If I'm zimmerman I don't have a gun and I leave him the eff alone after the 911 operator tells me to leave him the eff alone. Actually I probably don't do anything but drive my fat half-hispanic ass home.
Another testament to the ineptitude of the Sanford PD is that they didn't explicitly tell him to not pursue. "Are you following him? Okay, we don't really need you to do that" isn't how I would explicitly tell a neighborhood watch captain who believes this is his duty to stop pursuit. Especially after he said "Have them call me and I'll tell them where I am". No, you'll get the eff back in your car and wait for a police officer.
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Not sure, it sounded good though, but if they find her statement false, she is mumped and I believe they tell the jury to ignore the statements made by the witness. :dunno:
witness accuracy and credibility is for the jury to decide.
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Not currently watching, but how are her "court nails"? Man, I bet she's gonna get like, totally high after this is all done.
wut
Google. Look for smoking gun.
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If you aren't on your own property, and the guy is unarmed, it would have to be a very extreme case for me to ever be able to justify deadly force.
The dispatcher isn't a cop, and isn't allowed to give direct orders because of liability. Read that somewhere, and makes sense.
I've seen the bloody pictures of the front and back of Zimmerman's head, and I've read the interviews of some of the eyewitnesses describing Martin pinning Zimmerman down and punching the crap out of him. Of thats what happened, then it seems pretty extreme to me.
Now, if you're Zimmerman, are you thinking at that point: "golly, I wonder if this is extreme enough for me to shoot this guy?" Probably not. You'd probably shoot him. Or at least you pull your piece and tell him to back the eff off, and pray he doesn't grab it from you. Personally, I'd rather pull the trigger than take that chance.
And please, save the oh so predictable response "we'll I wouldn't have stalked the kid and started a fight with him." Ive not yet seen a shred of evidence that Zimmerman started the physical altercation, and there's nothing wrong with asking a stranger what they're doing in your neighborhood. If there was, this would be a much easier case for the state.
As for the "skittles and ice tea aren't a weapon" tripe, jfc. Martins fists evidently were weapons, unless you're also suggesting Zimmermam did that to himself.
If I'm zimmerman I don't have a gun and I leave him the eff alone after the 911 operator tells me to leave him the eff alone. Actually I probably don't do anything but drive my fat half-hispanic ass home.
Another testament to the ineptitude of the Sanford PD is that they didn't explicitly tell him to not pursue. "Are you following him? Okay, we don't really need you to do that" isn't how I would explicitly tell a neighborhood watch captain who believes this is his duty to stop pursuit. Especially after he said "Have them call me and I'll tell them where I am". No, you'll get the eff back in your car and wait for a police officer.
I've read that since the dispatcher isn't a cop, they are directed to not give direct orders like that because of liability.
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yeah, lots of folks (myself included) have said that Zimmerman will probably be found not guilty you dopes.
if we humans weren't vengeful, irrational pieces of crap, it'd be almost impossible to convict anyone of anything in our legal system. reasonable doubt is pretty nearly an impossible standard.
on the only jury i ever served on, i was solely responsible for not convicting a guy of assault on a cop. i want that on my contrarian permanent record.
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Not sure, it sounded good though, but if they find her statement false, she is mumped and I believe they tell the jury to ignore the statements made by the witness. :dunno:
sit this one out, fanning
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on the only jury i ever served on, i was solely responsible for not convicting a guy of assault on a cop. i want that on my contrarian permanent record.
that's pretty great. god bless you.
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the whole the 911 operator tried to dissuade him from action thing is beyond Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). describe to me a situation where a 911 operator is going to tell a 911 caller - go try and wrestle that guy to the ground and restrain him until the cops come.
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Not currently watching, but how are her "court nails"? Man, I bet she's gonna get like, totally high after this is all done.
good lord
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on the only jury i ever served on, i was solely responsible for not convicting a guy of assault on a cop. i want that on my contrarian permanent record.
that's pretty great. god bless you.
yeah, felt great.
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sys, have an American flag waving in the wind behind you when you tell that story next time. amazing.
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on the only jury i ever served on, i was solely responsible for not convicting a guy of assault on a cop. i want that on my contrarian permanent record.
that's pretty great. god bless you.
yeah, felt great.
I'd like to hear more about this story sometime.
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on the only jury i ever served on, i was solely responsible for not convicting a guy of assault on a cop. i want that on my contrarian permanent record.
that's pretty great. god bless you.
yeah, felt great.
I'd like to hear more about this story sometime.
I'd like to hear the story now if that's cool with everyone.
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I'd like to hear the story now if that's cool with everyone.
Cool with me Kat Kid
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the whole the 911 operator tried to dissuade him from action thing is beyond Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). describe to me a situation where a 911 operator is going to tell a 911 caller - go try and wrestle that guy to the ground and restrain him until the cops come.
yeah, obviously you should do the opposite of what the 911 operator tells you. Everyone knows this.
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sys, have an American flag waving in the wind behind you when you tell that story next time. amazing.
all this nonsense about how GZ was the only instigator. oh he shouldn't have had a gun, he shouldn't have gotten out of his car, he shouldn't have called the police on a young child.
No one is saying that. That's called a strawman
i don't think anyone has said the thing about the young child, but they have (at least implied) the first two. people have said a lot of stupid things in this thread. besides, i like seven.
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the whole the 911 operator tried to dissuade him from action thing is beyond Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). describe to me a situation where a 911 operator is going to tell a 911 caller - go try and wrestle that guy to the ground and restrain him until the cops come.
yeah, obviously you should do the opposite of what the 911 operator tells you. Everyone knows this.
you should realize they aren't going to tell you anything that might make their employer liable for anything and not give their advice any more weight than it warrants.
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i don't think anyone has said the thing about the young child, but they have (at least implied) the first two. people have said a lot of stupid things in this thread. besides, i like seven.
(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT-PNSj75ob3auzxgFq3M7J1vvLtJLMxYwNKHDvtebUMaJBqj8reuGjAoqX)
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sys, have an American flag waving in the wind behind you when you tell that story next time. amazing.
i don't like americans, though. :shakesfist:
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sys, have an American flag waving in the wind behind you when you tell that story next time. amazing.
i don't like americans, though. :shakesfist:
Oh I know, but that story...wow!
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the whole the 911 operator tried to dissuade him from action thing is beyond Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). describe to me a situation where a 911 operator is going to tell a 911 caller - go try and wrestle that guy to the ground and restrain him until the cops come.
yeah, obviously you should do the opposite of what the 911 operator tells you. Everyone knows this.
you should realize they aren't going to tell you anything that might make their employer liable for anything and not give their advice any more weight than it warrants.
ok
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yeah, lots of folks (myself included) have said that Zimmerman will probably be found not guilty you dopes.
reasonable doubt is pretty nearly an impossible standard.
:D
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I'd like to hear the story now if that's cool with everyone.
not that great of a story. some guy got pulled over on a traffic stop and he was wanted for something else. the police officer tried to cuff him or something and he shook it off and ran away. the police officer suffered a torn acl in the process (not hit or anything, just in the pivoting of legs or whatever). charged with assault, iirc. maybe battery, who knows. everyone else was, book him danno and i was, wait, the state presented convincing evidence that the suspect resisted arrest, and that in the process, the officer was harmed, but they didn't even try to prove that the suspect's actions were malicious or displayed negligent disregard for the officer's well being. it's reasonable to assume he just wanted to escape and had no idea that trying to escape might result in injury to the officer.
just like 12 angry men except no one tried to convince anyone of anything, we just all decided eff it, hung jury, let's go home. also, i'm pretty sure the defendant was convicted of other things in other trials.
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U S A! U S A! U S A!
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Most great American stories end with "eff it, hung jury, let's go home." At least they should.
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that was a sysational story!
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also, I can't believe you were the only one. That's sad.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi786.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fyy141%2Fvagitoe%2FFlag2.gif&hash=e43880a465b3e19c15d632ffb8afea5854990d66)
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I'd like to hear the story now if that's cool with everyone.
not that great of a story. some guy got pulled over on a traffic stop and he was wanted for something else. the police officer tried to cuff him or something and he shook it off and ran away. the police officer suffered a torn acl in the process (not hit or anything, just in the pivoting of legs or whatever). charged with assault, iirc. maybe battery, who knows. everyone else was, book him danno and i was, wait, the state presented convincing evidence that the suspect resisted arrest, and that in the process, the officer was harmed, but they didn't even try to prove that the suspect's actions were malicious or displayed negligent disregard for the officer's well being. it's reasonable to assume he just wanted to escape and had no idea that trying to escape might result in injury to the officer.
just like 12 angry men except no one tried to convince anyone of anything, we just all decided eff it, hung jury, let's go home. also, i'm pretty sure the defendant was convicted of other things in other trials.
In Illinois that is strict liability as to felony resisting. Meaning if you resist/flee and the officer is injured in the apprehension/pursuit it enhances it from a misdemeanor to a felony. So prove BaRD intent to resist and then that injury was proximately caused. No requirement that you prove any intent to injure. Sounds like a dumbass charging decision on the part of the prosecution.
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also, I can't believe you were the only one. That's sad.
there was one other smart person on the jury. i felt pretty betrayed when he went with the majority. i also felt manipulated when i noticed the defendant's suit covered up forearm tats that extended down and out onto his wrists. the state should have entered half-nekkid pics as evidence.
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also, I can't believe you were the only one. That's sad.
there was one other smart person on the jury. i felt pretty betrayed when he went with the majority. i also felt manipulated when i noticed the defendant's suit covered up forearm tats that extended down and out onto his wrists. the state should have entered half-nekkid pics as evidence.
Sounds like the other 10 jurors were dumbasses from this thread
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I'd like to hear the story now if that's cool with everyone.
not that great of a story. some guy got pulled over on a traffic stop and he was wanted for something else. the police officer tried to cuff him or something and he shook it off and ran away. the police officer suffered a torn acl in the process (not hit or anything, just in the pivoting of legs or whatever). charged with assault, iirc. maybe battery, who knows. everyone else was, book him danno and i was, wait, the state presented convincing evidence that the suspect resisted arrest, and that in the process, the officer was harmed, but they didn't even try to prove that the suspect's actions were malicious or displayed negligent disregard for the officer's well being. it's reasonable to assume he just wanted to escape and had no idea that trying to escape might result in injury to the officer.
just like 12 angry men except no one tried to convince anyone of anything, we just all decided eff it, hung jury, let's go home. also, i'm pretty sure the defendant was convicted of other things in other trials.
In Illinois that is strict liability as to felony resisting. Meaning if you resist/flee and the officer is injured in the apprehension/pursuit it enhances it from a misdemeanor to a felony. So prove BaRD intent to resist and then that injury was proximately caused. No requirement that you prove any intent to injure. Sounds like a dumbass charging decision on the part of the prosecution.
sounds like we need to change your name to Mr. Bread J.D.
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Sounds like a dumbass charging decision on the part of the prosecution.
i don't think (possibly over)charging him with assault jeopardized the state's ability to charge him with other stuff. this was in arizona.
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Sounds like a dumbass charging decision on the part of the prosecution.
i don't think (possibly over)charging him with assault jeopardized the state's ability to charge him with other stuff. this was in arizona.
Were you hearing just the one count of aggravated battery/assault on an officer or did they also include a resisting/obstructing count(s)? If they didn't, then had you acquitted him that would have been it. Double jeopardy would have attached. The mistrial wouldn't preclude them, but had they lost it would have. Stupid if that's the case.
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i voted with the majority to convict of resisting arrest. alone on acquit of assault.
after the lead jurist read the verdict, one of my fellow jurists apologized to the prosecutor on my behalf for not convicting of everything. he told her not to worry, that the defendant still faced an abundance of other charges. which is why i feel pretty confident that he was charged and prolly convicted of other stuff.
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i voted with the majority to convict of resisting arrest. alone on acquit of assault.
after the lead jurist read the verdict, one of my fellow jurists apologized to the prosecutor on my behalf for not convicting of everything. he told her not to worry, that the defendant still faced an abundance of other charges. which is why i feel pretty confident that he was charged and prolly convicted of other stuff.
My god that is great.
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i voted with the majority to convict of resisting arrest. alone on acquit of assault.
after the lead jurist read the verdict, one of my fellow jurists apologized to the prosecutor on my behalf for not convicting of everything. he told her not to worry, that the defendant still faced an abundance of other charges. which is why i feel pretty confident that he was charged and prolly convicted of other stuff.
Yeah, other incidents. Most derelict assholes give the state a number of opportunities. There's almost always a next time.
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i voted with the majority to convict of resisting arrest. alone on acquit of assault.
after the lead jurist read the verdict, one of my fellow jurists apologized to the prosecutor on my behalf for not convicting of everything. he told her not to worry, that the defendant still faced an abundance of other charges. which is why i feel pretty confident that he was charged and prolly convicted of other stuff.
Yeah, other incidents. Most derelict assholes give the state a number of opportunities. There's almost always a next time.
Yeah who cares how many bites of the rotten apple you get when the whole bunch is spoilt.
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I bet cop was a liar, ACL was torn in a beer league softball game and he wanted it paid for by WC.
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I bet cop was a liar, ACL was torn in a beer league softball game and he wanted it paid for by WC.
agreed
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that was a sysational story!
HEYYYYYYY I think I love you, so what am I so afraid of
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That the iced tea was sweet is implied. #FattyFest
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I guess I'm a little with Shacks. I haven't paid too much attention to this, but why the fascination? I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but tons of murders happen every day.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstream1.gifsoup.com%2Fview3%2F1705491%2Fniggas-get-shot-everyday-b-o.gif&hash=a3842b2c1b0661993f98871831c63f2d7fa112f2)
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i don't know what that .gif means but i'm fairly certain it's meant to insult me.
:don'tcare:
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Finally got to watch the Dee Dee examination. Holy crap, that was priceless!! :lol:
I know most will consider the best part "Creepy Ass Cracker" and the fact that she had to say it three times for the court reporter, but for me, it was her incredulous WHAT?!?! when the defense atty said he'd need a few hours the next morning to finish his cross. That was awesome.
I think this is supposed to be the prosecution's "star" witness btw. Not sure who else is on the list.
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I enjoy delicious ass crackers on top of my chili.
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That the iced tea was sweet is implied. #FattyFest
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.cdn.turner.com%2Fdr%2Fteg%2Ftsg%2Frelease%2Fsites%2Fdefault%2Ffiles%2Fassets%2Ftrayvonmartinbody1.jpg&hash=1c3aff9e21284973a9cdd2d8f5d82b68b90f25bf)
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Started the day thinking ERII was a mediocre (at best) poster. Now know he is a mediocre (at best) person . :clac:
If these posts were made three weeks ago I may have just offed him when he was standing near my car and claimed I thought he was going to break in and steal crap and then make up a story about how he said he was going to drag and hang me. And then say he gagged me with the rope he was going to use for the dragging and hanging.
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I guess I'm a little with Shacks. I haven't paid too much attention to this, but why the fascination? I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but tons of murders happen every day.
Are people that interested in the gun control/Stand Your Ground ramifications of this, or are they just bored?
I think the fascination was not with the crime itself but because it appeared that the Sanford PD wasn't going to do anything at all until they faced pressure and the Florida Bureau of Investigations and the Feds threatened to step in. George Zimmerman wasn't the first bad guy in the story the SPD Chief was.
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before i heard any testimony I thought he probably deserved manslaughter.
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
You're making assumptions here. IMO Trayvon was completely justified in beating the crap out of Zimmerman. You don't want to get your ass kicked? Mind your own rough ridin' business. I've never been beaten up by a stranger I've chased down because I don't chase strangers down.
I actually like to fight and it seems with his history, Zimmerman does too. I bet Zimmerman persued Martin because he thought he could kick his skinny ass. I bet he wouldn't have been so willing to chase me at 6'3" 250 down. I don't think he intended to use his gun at all but he started the confrontation and just couldn't take the ass beating he deserved for harassing a stranger.
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before i heard any testimony I thought he probably deserved manslaughter.
Manslaughter charges are such bullshit, its the criminal justice version of a double technical foul
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Also about the race thing, if you go back to the beginning of this thread I was pissed it was turning into an issue of race because I thought it would galvanize racists, those proud of it and those who have no clue, and would change the focus that a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season. Which is why I hope the Zimmerman legal team dies in a car explosion for painting Martin as the angry black kid that you all should be scared of and hide your daughters from.
If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would no or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
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If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would no or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
Oh man this would be another great psych experiment.
One group gets: 20 year old male, black, smokes a lot of pot, hangs out with his friends a lot, is never really home, raised by a single mom, graduated high school with average grades, decided to live at home instead of go to college, has not gotten a real job
The other group gets: 20 year old male, white, smokes a lot of pot, hangs out with his friends a lot, is never really home, raised by a single mom, graduated high school with average grades, decided to live at home instead of go to college, has not gotten a real job
Have each group describe what they think the other aspects of his life/personality are like. See how contrasted they are.
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If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would know or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
Yep.
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
You're making assumptions here. IMO Trayvon was completely justified in beating the crap out of Zimmerman. You don't want to get your ass kicked? Mind your own rough ridin' business. I've never been beaten up by a stranger I've chased down because I don't chase strangers down.
I actually like to fight and it seems with his history, Zimmerman does too. I bet Zimmerman persued Martin because he thought he could kick his skinny ass. I bet he wouldn't have been so willing to chase me at 6'3" 250 down. I don't think he intended to use his gun at all but he started the confrontation and just couldn't take the ass beating he deserved for harassing a stranger.
You make a lot of assumptions after scolding me for doing the same.
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I'm pretty sure I could guess the results of that experiment.
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Also about the race thing, if you go back to the beginning of this thread I was pissed it was turning into an issue of race because I thought it would galvanize racists, those proud of it and those who have no clue, and would change the focus that a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season. Which is why I hope the Zimmerman legal team dies in a car explosion for painting Martin as the angry black kid that you all should be scared of and hide your daughters from.
If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would no or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
Fwiw, none of this is personally relevant to me, but I disagree that if TM was white that the defense would do anything differently.
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Also about the race thing, if you go back to the beginning of this thread I was pissed it was turning into an issue of race because I thought it would galvanize racists, those proud of it and those who have no clue, and would change the focus that a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season. Which is why I hope the Zimmerman legal team dies in a car explosion for painting Martin as the angry black kid that you all should be scared of and hide your daughters from.
If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would no or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
Fwiw, none of this is personally relevant to me, but I disagree that if TM was white that the defense would do anything differently.
Come on.
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Also about the race thing, if you go back to the beginning of this thread I was pissed it was turning into an issue of race because I thought it would galvanize racists, those proud of it and those who have no clue, and would change the focus that a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season. Which is why I hope the Zimmerman legal team dies in a car explosion for painting Martin as the angry black kid that you all should be scared of and hide your daughters from.
If this was a white kid, there's no goddamn way we would no or care that he smoked weed. White kids who smoke weed are stoners who should be laughed at. Black kids who smoke weed are dangerous felonious thugs who should be locked up.
Fwiw, none of this is personally relevant to me, but I disagree that if TM was white that the defense would do anything differently.
what the, i don't even :eek:
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If TM was white, Zim would plead guilty
also why hasn't this been Domed up yet?
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I guess I'm a little with Shacks. I haven't paid too much attention to this, but why the fascination? I'm not trying to be insensitive here, but tons of murders happen every day.
Are people that interested in the gun control/Stand Your Ground ramifications of this, or are they just bored?
I think the fascination was not with the crime itself but because it appeared that the Sanford PD wasn't going to do anything at all until they faced pressure and the Florida Bureau of Investigations and the Feds threatened to step in. George Zimmerman wasn't the first bad guy in the story the SPD Chief was.
Yeah I agree. I had totally forgotten about the origin of this story.
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The state calls John Good to the stand. Testifies that he saw Martin straddling Zimmerman, punching him "MMA style" and "ground and pound." Described the guy on the bottom as "lighter skinned" and "definitely" wearing "red or a lighter color", which matches Zimmerman. He thinks it was Zimmerman who was calling for help. Says that the convenience store photo of Martin earlier that evening matches the description of the guy on top.
I simply cannot believe the state chose to put this guy on, especially since they should have finished with their "star" witness Dee Dee (Diamond, Rachel, whatever her name is). The state's case is :flush:
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kick the states ass ksuw
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kick the states ass ksuw
Sorry to hijack the thread with evidence from the trial. Let's all get back to talking about how Zimmerman was a racist POS who got what he deserved, and how the hell did he get his ass beat by some skinny 12 year old anyway? Definitely deserves 20 years in prison just for being a pussy, amiright?
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It's clear Zimmerman was the victim here. :party:
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One group gets: 20 year old male, black, smokes a lot of pot, hangs out with his friends a lot, is never really home, raised by a single mom, graduated high school with average grades, decided to live at home instead of go to college, has not gotten a real job
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm4.staticflickr.com%2F3690%2F9158063009_68018011f2.jpg&hash=60be916fd2240f04f04c76e232964d4516821f6f)
(http://www.flickr.com/photos/70227443@N06/9158063009/)The other group gets: 20 year old male, white, smokes a lot of pot, hangs out with his friends a lot, is never really home, raised by a single mom, graduated high school with average grades, decided to live at home instead of go to college, has not gotten a real job
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm8.staticflickr.com%2F7284%2F9158026269_4635624c88.jpg&hash=a2519b0f34de861303aec208cdea6ba64d9695b4) (http://www.flickr.com/photos/70227443@N06/9158026269/)
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kick the states ass ksuw
ksuw does seem excited and happy that the state hasn't done a good job so far. maybe he has an ulterior motive.
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kick the states ass ksuw
ksuw does seem excited and happy that the state hasn't done a good job so far. maybe he has an ulterior motive.
i bet there is some punk kid he wants to initiate a confrontation with and then Judge
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kick the states ass ksuw
Sorry to hijack the thread with evidence from the trial. Let's all get back to talking about how Zimmerman was a racist POS who got what he deserved, and how the hell did he get his ass beat by some skinny 12 year old anyway? Definitely deserves 20 years in prison just for being a pussy, amiright?
he killed a kid
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... a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season.
If you don't want it to be about race, why ignore all the facts that make this case actually interesting? There is Zimm's bloody nose/bashed head, witnesses saying that Martin was the agressor at the time he was shot, and Zimm's unrefuted story that Martin said he was going to use the gun to kill Zimm. To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger. There is also an interesting angle about the accused killing the person that could contradict the claims of threats to the accused's life. All of that is more intriguing than another racist american and pd .
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kick the states ass ksuw
Sorry to hijack the thread with evidence from the trial. Let's all get back to talking about how Zimmerman was a racist POS who got what he deserved, and how the hell did he get his ass beat by some skinny 12 year old anyway? Definitely deserves 20 years in prison just for being a pussy, amiright?
Zimmerman hasn't gotten what he deserves yet, and he probably won't. He is a racist POS who murdered a kid.
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To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger.
this is interesting to me as well. especially if TM never had possession of the gun.
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To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger.
this is interesting to me as well. especially if TM never had possession of the gun.
Yep, but i think we would agree that if someone has a gun within reach and says they are going to kill you while bashing your head against the ground, there is a legitmate fear for your life. The fact that the gun is in the belt of guy claiming to fear for his life and who in fact fired the gun, makes it interesting.
I also think we agree that in reality Zimm never really feared for his life, which provides an interesting question about the legal process in relation to gun nuts that kill the person they claimed was threatening them.
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I love it when people talk about Zimmerman's claims being "unrefuted". Well know crap he killed the only person who could refute them.
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To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger.
this is interesting to me as well. especially if TM never had possession of the gun.
Yep, but i think we would agree that if someone has a gun within reach and says they are going to kill you while bashing your head against the ground, there is a legitmate fear for your life. The fact that the gun is in the belt of guy claiming to fear for his life and who in fact fired the gun, makes it interesting.
I also think we agree that in reality Zimm never really feared for his life, which provides an interesting question about the legal process in relation to gun nuts that kill the person they claimed was threatening them.
could he not get his own gun (obviously he could and did) and shoot it in the air, to the side, hold it away from TM, keep it held in his pants/holster/whatever, throw it to the side, do anything else with his gun? even if he had legitimate fear that his life was in danger (which we agree he may not have had) what is his responsibility (as the only participant bringing a weapon into the fight) to use less than deadly force? could he have? can you flip it and say TM had to beat his ass so badly because he saw he had a gun and had a legitimate fear for his own life given he was just tracked and confronted by a gun toting stranger? lots of stuff going on. ultimately I think no matter the legal process result it makes gun toting dumbasses look like even bigger dumbasses and should bring gun laws under higher scrutiny.
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I love it when people talk about Zimmerman's claims being "unrefuted". Well know crap he killed the only person who could refute them.
you shoot enough people and all claims are unrefuted
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I love it when people talk about Zimmerman's claims being "unrefuted". Well know crap he killed the only person who could refute them.
:D
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To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger.
this is interesting to me as well. especially if TM never had possession of the gun.
Yep, but i think we would agree that if someone has a gun within reach and says they are going to kill you while bashing your head against the ground, there is a legitmate fear for your life. The fact that the gun is in the belt of guy claiming to fear for his life and who in fact fired the gun, makes it interesting.
I also think we agree that in reality Zimm never really feared for his life, which provides an interesting question about the legal process in relation to gun nuts that kill the person they claimed was threatening them.
maybe. I think it leaves a lot of opening though. could he not get his own gun (obviously he could and did) and shoot it in the air, to the side, hold it away from TM, keep it held in his pants/holster/whatever, throw it to the side, do anything else with his gun? even if he had legitimate fear that his life was in danger (which we agree he may not have had) what is his responsibility (as the only participant bringing a weapon into the fight) to use less than deadly force? could he have? can you flip it and say TM had to beat his ass so badly because he saw he had a gun and had a legitimate fear for his own life given he was just tracked and confronted by a gun toting stranger? lots of stuff going on. ultimately I think no matter the legal process result it makes gun toting dumbasses look like even bigger dumbasses and should bring gun laws under higher scrutiny.
All of those are great questions and I am anxious to see how/if they are sorted out. And it's much more intersting than 'another black kid gets killed and (half) white people don't care.'
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To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger.
this is interesting to me as well. especially if TM never had possession of the gun.
Yep, but i think we would agree that if someone has a gun within reach and says they are going to kill you while bashing your head against the ground, there is a legitmate fear for your life. The fact that the gun is in the belt of guy claiming to fear for his life and who in fact fired the gun, makes it interesting.
I also think we agree that in reality Zimm never really feared for his life, which provides an interesting question about the legal process in relation to gun nuts that kill the person they claimed was threatening them.
maybe. I think it leaves a lot of opening though. could he not get his own gun (obviously he could and did) and shoot it in the air, to the side, hold it away from TM, keep it held in his pants/holster/whatever, throw it to the side, do anything else with his gun? even if he had legitimate fear that his life was in danger (which we agree he may not have had) what is his responsibility (as the only participant bringing a weapon into the fight) to use less than deadly force? could he have? can you flip it and say TM had to beat his ass so badly because he saw he had a gun and had a legitimate fear for his own life given he was just tracked and confronted by a gun toting stranger? lots of stuff going on. ultimately I think no matter the legal process result it makes gun toting dumbasses look like even bigger dumbasses and should bring gun laws under higher scrutiny.
All of those are great questions and I am anxious to see how/if they are sorted out. And it's much more intersting than 'another black kid gets killed and (half) white people don't care.'
sure, I think there are many interesting parts to the case. those are interesting and the racial issue is interesting and the gun issue is interesting and it's all sad. I'm not going to ignore a part because another part is interesting though.
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... a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season.
If you don't want it to be about race, why ignore all the facts that make this case actually interesting? There is Zimm's bloody nose/bashed head, witnesses saying that Martin was the agressor at the time he was shot, and Zimm's unrefuted story that Martin said he was going to use the gun to kill Zimm. To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger. There is also an interesting angle about the accused killing the person that could contradict the claims of threats to the accused's life. All of that is more intriguing than another racist american and pd .
It is currently unrefuted that Odin lloyd threatened to murder Aaron Hernandez too.
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It's clear Zimmerman was the victim here. :party:
Yeah, the dead kid should probably get jail time here.
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... a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season.
If you don't want it to be about race, why ignore all the facts that make this case actually interesting? There is Zimm's bloody nose/bashed head, witnesses saying that Martin was the agressor at the time he was shot, and Zimm's unrefuted story that Martin said he was going to use the gun to kill Zimm. To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger. There is also an interesting angle about the accused killing the person that could contradict the claims of threats to the accused's life. All of that is more intriguing than another racist american and pd .
Your post is a non-sequitur. You quoted me mentioning nothing about race and then insinuated that I want to talk about race, this confuses me. There is nothing about this that is remotely interesting. If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked. Getting beaten up, under no circumstance, does not afford you the right to shoot and kill an unarmed human. The case could be made better if Zimmerman was minding his own business or directly protecting his property or family. He was doing none of this. He was a nosy hothead who may or not profiled someone, either way he bit off more than he could chew and his response was to shoot when his fat ass could have been in his living room eating. A confrontation didn't find him, he found himself a confrontation.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
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A co-worker said the testimony from the prosecution's star witness is worth a listen.
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... a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season.
If you don't want it to be about race, why ignore all the facts that make this case actually interesting? There is Zimm's bloody nose/bashed head, witnesses saying that Martin was the agressor at the time he was shot, and Zimm's unrefuted story that Martin said he was going to use the gun to kill Zimm. To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger. There is also an interesting angle about the accused killing the person that could contradict the claims of threats to the accused's life. All of that is more intriguing than another racist american and pd .
Your post is a non-sequitur. You quoted me mentioning nothing about race and then insinuated that I want to talk about race, this confuses me. There is nothing about this that is remotely interesting. If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked. Getting beaten up, under no circumstance, does not afford you the right to shoot and kill an unarmed human. The case could be made better if Zimmerman was minding his own business or directly protecting his property or family. He was doing none of this. He was a nosy hothead who may or not profiled someone, either way he bit off more than he could chew and his response was to shoot when his fat ass could have been in his living room eating. A confrontation didn't find him, he found himself a confrontation.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.reactiongifs.com%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2012%2F09%2Fslow-clap-gif.gif&hash=db1122b29f3043ee9c51408580dba2499583a7d5)
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so can we get any of you guys to go on record that TM prolly shouldn't have started beating a man for standing in a courtyard? seems you guys are trying to paint him as an innocent here.
You're making assumptions here. IMO Trayvon was completely justified in beating the crap out of Zimmerman. You don't want to get your ass kicked? Mind your own rough ridin' business. I've never been beaten up by a stranger I've chased down because I don't chase strangers down.
I actually like to fight and it seems with his history, Zimmerman does too. I bet Zimmerman persued Martin because he thought he could kick his skinny ass. I bet he wouldn't have been so willing to chase me at 6'3" 250 down. I don't think he intended to use his gun at all but he started the confrontation and just couldn't take the ass beating he deserved for harassing a stranger.
You make a lot of assumptions after scolding me for doing the same.
And...
Difference is I made very likely assumptions based on Zimmerman's very public past to illustrate he is a hothead and very likely a cowardly bully. You made assumptions to paint what may or may not have happened that night in a light that suits your argument and then attemped to state that your assumption was the only logical one to make. I'm going to assume that the differences in assumptions either will be lost on you or you won't care.
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... a man stalked and shot an innocent and unarmed citizen on the street like it was rough ridin' pheasant season.
If you don't want it to be about race, why ignore all the facts that make this case actually interesting? There is Zimm's bloody nose/bashed head, witnesses saying that Martin was the agressor at the time he was shot, and Zimm's unrefuted story that Martin said he was going to use the gun to kill Zimm. To me, this brings up a very intriguing question as to whether a gun-toting fool can still claim self defense if he confronts someone, is subdued, and then by the use of his own gun, feels his life is in danger. There is also an interesting angle about the accused killing the person that could contradict the claims of threats to the accused's life. All of that is more intriguing than another racist american and pd .
Your post is a non-sequitur. You quoted me mentioning nothing about race and then insinuated that I want to talk about race, this confuses me. There is nothing about this that is remotely interesting. If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked. Getting beaten up, under no circumstance, does not afford you the right to shoot and kill an unarmed human. The case could be made better if Zimmerman was minding his own business or directly protecting his property or family. He was doing none of this. He was a nosy hothead who may or not profiled someone, either way he bit off more than he could chew and his response was to shoot when his fat ass could have been in his living room eating. A confrontation didn't find him, he found himself a confrontation.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
At one point TM was running away, but yeah he is totally the aggressor. Also, that makes this incredibly sad.
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i haven't and won't read this whole thread, but are there people seriously saying that it was ok to shoot and kill the kid because he landed a couple of punches on the guy that was stalking him at night for no reason?
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MakeItRain is doing some serious face-cratering of the dumbasses in this thread.
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i haven't and won't read this whole thread, but are there people seriously saying that it was ok to shoot and kill the kid because he landed a couple of punches on the guy that was stalking him at night for no reason?
I don't know about anyone else, but I don't think it's 'ok'. Zimm is a pos and i've said that. But I do think this is a really interesting case because Zimm is still going to walk. That result is going to be reached for many reasons, and race isn't the only one.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
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MakeItRain is doing some serious face-cratering of the dumbasses in this thread.
MIR is surprisingly good at doing that. I noticed it in the big floodaggy fanatics thread this year. Also, I love how people act like Zimmerman couldn't at least shoot the kid in an incapacitating way (arm or something) to distract him so he could get away. Nope. Definitely had to kill him. Either that or he would continue to get his ass beat, which he may or may not have deserved. Definitely his only two options.
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i haven't and won't read this whole thread, but are there people seriously saying that it was ok to shoot and kill the kid because he landed a couple of punches on the guy that was stalking him at night for no reason?
Yes, but they are racist dumbasses and/or people who have gotten their asses beat from starting crap.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Acquittal is hugely different from innocent. Most people in this thread assumed he would get acquitted, at least that is the vibe I had.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Acquittal is hugely different from innocent. Most people in this thread assumed he would get acquitted, at least that is the vibe I had.
If I ever said he was "innocent" it was meant w/ sarcasm. I'm very much in favor of him being acquitted of the charges based on the evidence.
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Is anyone else looking forward to the riots when Zimm gets acquitted? :drool:
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
It's Florida. They let Casey Anthony off even though the trunk of her car smelled like a dead body and had the daughter's DNA in it.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
There is evidence that Zimmerman killed Martin, however.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Acquittal is hugely different from innocent. Most people in this thread assumed he would get acquitted, at least that is the vibe I had.
If I ever said he was "innocent" it was meant w/ sarcasm. I'm very much in favor of him being acquitted of the charges based on the evidence.
Then I guess I don't know what your point is. I think most people a day or two into the trial thought he would be acquitted. I don't think they agreed with the decision, but assumed it was the most likely outcome. That's been my views throughout this process anyway.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
depends on if it has to be 100% of gE jurors or like 95%
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GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
it's obvious
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Is anyone else looking forward to the riots when Zimm gets acquitted? :drool:
no, and you are a shitty person if you are
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
yes
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Is anyone else looking forward to the riots when Zimm gets acquitted? :drool:
no, and you are a shitty person if you are
It's not like people rioted when OJ Simpson was acquitted. We were all just :sdeek:
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
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GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
it's obvious
I should have qualified "to most people".
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I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces
What in the world.
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GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
it's obvious
I should have qualified "to most people".
to most people
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Acquittal is hugely different from innocent. Most people in this thread assumed he would get acquitted, at least that is the vibe I had.
If I ever said he was "innocent" it was meant w/ sarcasm. I'm very much in favor of him being acquitted of the charges based on the evidence.
That's a ridiculous hair split you are using to make you seem like less of a piece of crap and it isn't working. Anyone who thinks he doesn't deserve to be in prison for a long time based on this and his past may be just as sociopathic as Zimmerman is.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Yes.
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
I think it's hilarious that you are basing your hopeful vindication on a verdict.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
I understand what you're saying, and at Martin's age, I may have confronted Zimmerman, too. But, unfortunately for Martin, if you start beating that person and they have a concealed carry permit, you may end up dead, and the shooter may be found justified in court.
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I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces
What in the world.
That's what your dumbass took from that? I hire people who work with children, they have to know how to talk to people they don't recognize without being offensive and starting a confrontation. Most people are morons like you so my training has to go beyond the obvious "get information and be pleasant and respectful on the chance that the person you are confronting is actually doing the right thing."
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I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces
What in the world.
That's what your dumbass took from that? I hire people who work with children, they have to know how to talk to people they don't recognize without being offensive and starting a confrontation. Most people are morons like you so my training has to go beyond the obvious "get information and be pleasant and respectful on the chance that the person you are confronting is actually doing the right thing."
I mean this is something your parents should teach you, right? Like is it that hard not to start a fight with someone you've never met?
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So after being presented all the evidence and the jury comes back with a not guilty verdict, will we still considered "dumbasses"?
Acquittal is hugely different from innocent. Most people in this thread assumed he would get acquitted, at least that is the vibe I had.
If I ever said he was "innocent" it was meant w/ sarcasm. I'm very much in favor of him being acquitted of the charges based on the evidence.
That's a ridiculous hair split you are using to make you seem like less of a piece of crap and it isn't working. Anyone who thinks he doesn't deserve to be in prison for a long time based on this and his past may be just as sociopathic as Zimmerman is.
I don't believe he deserves life if prison for what happened that night. If that pisses anyone off or makes them think I'm a racist/dumbass/piece of crap, then you all can get mumped. That's my opinion
Manslaughter and 3-5 years would be an acceptable punishment
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
I understand what you're saying, and at Martin's age, I may have confronted Zimmerman, too. But, unfortunately for Martin, if you start beating that person and they have a concealed carry permit, you may end up dead, and the shooter may be found justified in court.
Thing is you don't really believe this. All you have done with this statement is inform us how little you value Martin's life. If Trayvon Martin was your nephew in your scenario you would no doubt demand justice. I'm pretty sure though you will still very wrongly and bullheadedly stick to this obviously stupid talking point because you have to be right.
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The fact that Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit is some additional mumped up crap.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
what the eff
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I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces
What in the world.
That's what your dumbass took from that? I hire people who work with children, they have to know how to talk to people they don't recognize without being offensive and starting a confrontation. Most people are morons like you so my training has to go beyond the obvious "get information and be pleasant and respectful on the chance that the person you are confronting is actually doing the right thing."
I mean this is something your parents should teach you, right? Like is it that hard not to start a fight with someone you've never met?
Well its clearly something that you, Zimmerman, a few posters here, and a few million Americans don't understand.
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Some people are so married to the idea of the great American justice system :rolleyes: that they think a guy should get off after chasing, confronting, and eventually killing another person who was innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever before being confronted by a hot-headed gun-toting vigilante. Sad, really.
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I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces
What in the world.
That's what your dumbass took from that? I hire people who work with children, they have to know how to talk to people they don't recognize without being offensive and starting a confrontation. Most people are morons like you so my training has to go beyond the obvious "get information and be pleasant and respectful on the chance that the person you are confronting is actually doing the right thing."
I mean this is something your parents should teach you, right? Like is it that hard not to start a fight with someone you've never met?
Well its clearly something that you, Zimmerman, a few posters here, and a few million Americans don't understand.
Well considering I've gone 30+ years being outgoing and never once starting a fight with someone I didn't know, :flush:, but judge away.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
:facepalm:
We've gone over this multiple times already, but the reason it's not just another case is because of how long it took for the Sanford police to arrest Zimmerman. The community started getting pissed after months had gone by and no arrests had been made for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
:facepalm:
We've gone over this multiple times already, but the reason it's not just another case is because of how long it took for the Sanford police to arrest Zimmerman. The community started getting pissed after months had gone by and no arrests had been made for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
Happens every day in every metro in the country.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
an unarmed kid got shot and died
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this thread is ruining the vibe in my motherfucking COMBO BOARD :curse:
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
:facepalm:
We've gone over this multiple times already, but the reason it's not just another case is because of how long it took for the Sanford police to arrest Zimmerman. The community started getting pissed after months had gone by and no arrests had been made for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
Happens every day in every metro in the country.
Link?
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
an unarmed kid got shot and died
Do you watch the news? Happens every day.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
:facepalm:
We've gone over this multiple times already, but the reason it's not just another case is because of how long it took for the Sanford police to arrest Zimmerman. The community started getting pissed after months had gone by and no arrests had been made for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
Happens every day in every metro in the country.
Link?
It's not news, hence no link.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
:facepalm:
We've gone over this multiple times already, but the reason it's not just another case is because of how long it took for the Sanford police to arrest Zimmerman. The community started getting pissed after months had gone by and no arrests had been made for the murder of an unarmed teenager.
Happens every day in every metro in the country.
No it doesn't. Maybe if they're still searching for the murder suspect, but they knew Zimmerman was responsible for the killing from the start.
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The fact that Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit is some additional mumped up crap.
lol, no it isn't
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
zimmerman isnt on your fantasy team is he, pete?
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
Unfortunately, someone getting shot and killed is passee. The interest is in how and why people justify murder. I can't recall another case where someone admitted to shooting an unarmed youth who was not in the process of committing a crime and so many people are finding reasons to make it okay. This is where the racial component comes into play for most. If a licensed dark skinned Mexican shot a pretty blonde girl who shoplifted once or twice, I'd doubt as many gun nuts would cape up for the "wetback."
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The fact that Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit is some additional mumped up crap.
lol, no it isn't
He's been under a restraining order for beating up his fiancée. People like that shouldn't be allowed to have a gun, period, much less a concealed carry permit.
Also, why didn't Zimmerman use the gun to keep Martin from kicking his ass? Don't they teach how to properly use a gun to prevent altercations when you get your permit?
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
Unfortunately, someone getting shot and killed is passee. The interest is in how and why people justify murder. I can't recall another case where someone admitted to shooting an unarmed youth who was not in the process of committing a crime and so many people are finding reasons to make it okay. This is where the racial component comes into play for most. If a licensed dark skinned Mexican shot a pretty blonde girl who shoplifted once or twice, I'd doubt as many gun nuts would cape up for the "wetback."
He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
I understand what you're saying, and at Martin's age, I may have confronted Zimmerman, too. But, unfortunately for Martin, if you start beating that person and they have a concealed carry permit, you may end up dead, and the shooter may be found justified in court.
Thing is you don't really believe this. All you have done with this statement is inform us how little you value Martin's life. If Trayvon Martin was your nephew in your scenario you would no doubt demand justice. I'm pretty sure though you will still very wrongly and bullheadedly stick to this obviously stupid talking point because you have to be right.
If Trayvon was my nephew, I would be asking myself why he didn't call 911 and run.
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He RAN!
EDIT: Per Zimmerman's 911 call
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At least john doug and ER3 are somewhat compelling to argue with, EMO's arguments are so elementary and moronic that its frustrating to read.
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The fact that Zimmerman had a concealed carry permit is some additional mumped up crap.
lol, no it isn't
He's been under a restraining order for beating up his fiancée. People like that shouldn't be allowed to have a gun, period, much less a concealed carry permit.
Also, why didn't Zimmerman use the gun to keep Martin from kicking his ass? Don't they teach how to properly use a gun to prevent altercations when you get your permit?
Like, here's rough ridin' lesson one: Don't let the bad guy get close enough to kick your ass and take your gun and rough ridin' blast you with your own gun, dipshits.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
We have no idea how the physical fight started, so please don't pretend to. However, Martin probably initiated physical contact, and here's why: According to Dee Dee, the last thing she heard before the phone hit the ground was Zimmerman saying "what are you going here?" Why would Zimmerman say that if he just planned to jump Martin the second after he asked the question? Why would Zimmerman call the police, period, if he planned to jump him?
And is asking "what are you doing here?" really grounds to be attacked? How about just responding "mind your own business" or better yet, "I'm staying with my dad, who lives right over there."
And once the physical confrontation ensues, its laughable to hear the morons on this board pretend to know exactly how they would have reacted in that situation. "Oh, I would have just fired a warning shot!" :lol: "I would have just thrown my gun somewhere where he couldn't get it!" :lol: "Oh, I would have just pointed the gun at him and hoped the guy beating me up didn't take it away from me!"
From a legal standpoint, I agree that Zimmerman seems likely to be acquitted, but I guess I'm one of the few who (if the facts are as I understand them, and that's a big IF) doesn't think Zimmerman did anything wrong.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
zimmerman isnt on your fantasy team is he, pete?
Nope. But, I didn't know the part about the cops not arresting the shooter until way later. I guess that part was pretty bad. I honestly didn't know very much about this thing at all until I read up on this thread a few minutes ago.
Shooting kids is bad, and not good. go cats
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
Unfortunately, someone getting shot and killed is passee. The interest is in how and why people justify murder. I can't recall another case where someone admitted to shooting an unarmed youth who was not in the process of committing a crime and so many people are finding reasons to make it okay. This is where the racial component comes into play for most. If a licensed dark skinned Mexican shot a pretty blonde girl who shoplifted once or twice, I'd doubt as many gun nuts would cape up for the "wetback."
He was beating the crap out of Zimmerman
Not the point and you know that.
Anyway, Fighting someone in and of its own is not a crime, there have to be mitigating circumstances, those of which we don't know. If Martin felt he was in danger he, by law, can protect himself.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
We have no idea how the physical fight started, so please don't pretend to. However, Martin probably initiated physical contact, and here's why: According to Dee Dee, the last thing she heard before the phone hit the ground was Zimmerman saying "what are you going here?" Why would Zimmerman say that if he just planned to jump Martin the second after he asked the question? Why would Zimmerman call the police, period, if he planned to jump him?
And is asking "what are you doing here?" really grounds to be attacked? How about just responding "mind your own business" or better yet, "I'm staying with my dad, who lives right over there."
And once the physical confrontation ensues, its laughable to hear the morons on this board pretend to know exactly how they would have reacted in that situation. "Oh, I would have just fired a warning shot!" :lol: "I would have just thrown my gun somewhere where he couldn't get it!" :lol: "Oh, I would have just pointed the gun at him and hoped the guy beating me up didn't take it away from me!"
From a legal standpoint, I agree that Zimmerman seems likely to be acquitted, but I guess I'm one of the few who (if the facts are as I understand them, and that's a big IF) doesn't think Zimmerman did anything wrong.
You would have to just be an awful human being to not think that Zimmerman did anything wrong here, K-S-U-.
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If Martin Zimmerman felt he was in danger he, by law, can protect himself.
:dunno:
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
zimmerman isnt on your fantasy team is he, pete?
Nope. But, I didn't know the part about the cops not arresting the shooter until way later. I guess that part was pretty bad. I honestly didn't know very much about this thing at all until I read up on this thread a few minutes ago.
Shooting kids is bad, and not good. go cats
it's a mumped up situation with a lot of compelling things going on. your run of the mill kansas dumbass may not think there is, but there is.
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I just think you guys are focused on the wrong part here. I don't care about Zimmerman/Martin and this particular trial. I don't think this is a (valid) race issue.
I do think there ought to be outrage over the law, and motivation to change it, so that this shouldn't happen again.
FWIW, I didn't know Zimm had a restraining order, and I'm surprised that Florida law would allow a CCW permit to be active in that scenario. I don't think that's the case in most states.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
Those numbers are absurd. Both of those clowns don't even pretend to support those assertions with actual data..
For a little context: 851 accidental gun deaths each year and 19,300 suicides with guns each year. 2.5 million times a year a gun is used to ward off a lowlife? Give me a break.
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If you make the choice to pursue and confront a stranger on the street you run the risk of getting your ass kicked.
I feel like people who don't think Zimmerman started this fight are the people who think they can do or say whatever they want to people without getting their asses kicked. In this case its particularly ironic because these same people are okay with shooting an unarmed person. "I can shoot you but you can't punch me."
I think it was foolish for GZ to follow TM, but you seem to be saying that if someone is following you, it's OK to physically assault them to the point of beating them bloody. At this point, there is no proof that GZ ever touched, or even got in the face of TM. GZ was on the phone with the police, so it's obvious his only goal was to keep TM in sight until the police arrived.
Yes, I think following someone close enough for a fight to happen at night with no one else around is grounds for getting your ass kicked. There's a reason why none of us have ever done the same. If Martin did just spin around and just started pounding Zimmerman (that didn't happen), it is logical to assume that Martin felt unsafe because this large man was tailing him. If Zimmerman asked Martin what he was doing there, that is even more provocation for a fight. I work in an industry where I have to train 18-22 year olds how to deal with unfamiliar faces, if Zimmerman couldn't do that without invoking violence he should have stayed in his truck or better yet in his house.
We have no idea how the physical fight started, so please don't pretend to. However, Martin probably initiated physical contact, and here's why: According to Dee Dee, the last thing she heard before the phone hit the ground was Zimmerman saying "what are you going here?" Why would Zimmerman say that if he just planned to jump Martin the second after he asked the question? Why would Zimmerman call the police, period, if he planned to jump him?
And is asking "what are you doing here?" really grounds to be attacked? How about just responding "mind your own business" or better yet, "I'm staying with my dad, who lives right over there."
And once the physical confrontation ensues, its laughable to hear the morons on this board pretend to know exactly how they would have reacted in that situation. "Oh, I would have just fired a warning shot!" :lol: "I would have just thrown my gun somewhere where he couldn't get it!" :lol: "Oh, I would have just pointed the gun at him and hoped the guy beating me up didn't take it away from me!"
From a legal standpoint, I agree that Zimmerman seems likely to be acquitted, but I guess I'm one of the few who (if the facts are as I understand them, and that's a big IF) doesn't think Zimmerman did anything wrong.
Hey dumbass, even if Martin did initiate contact in your wild ass assumptive scenario, depending on circumstance Martin could have the legal right to do so. Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't lift his shirt and show the gun? Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't say "n-word, I'm going to beat, rape, drag, hang, and burn you for walking in my neighborhood?" No, none of this know any of this. What we do know is that Zimmerman actively pursued, even chased, an unarmed law abiding 17 year old kid and ended up shooting him to death. I don't care about the circumstances of the interim because we can't know what happened. I thought gun owners were supposed to be well trained and responsible?
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
Those numbers are absurd. Both of those clowns don't even pretend to support those assertions with actual data..
For a little context: 851 accidental gun deaths each year and 19,300 suicides with guns each year. 2.5 million times a year a gun is used to ward off a lowlife? Give me a break.
It could a lot lower, sure. But could be 100,000? I think so. That's a lot, IMO.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
Those numbers are absurd. Both of those clowns don't even pretend to support those assertions with actual data..
For a little context: 851 accidental gun deaths each year and 19,300 suicides with guns each year. 2.5 million times a year a gun is used to ward off a lowlife? Give me a break.
It could a lot lower, sure. But could be 100,000? I think so. That's a lot, IMO.
That is a lot. It could also be 1000. That's not a lot.
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Some people are so married to the idea of the great American justice system :rolleyes: that they think a guy should get off after chasing, confronting, and eventually killing another person who was innocent of any wrongdoing whatsoever before being confronted by a hot-headed gun-toting vigilante. Sad, really.
I guess i fit in this category. I don't like the result here because i have my own assumptions as to what really happened, but I'm still glad prosecutors have to actually present credible evidence before putting someone in prison. Unfortunately that means the deck is sometimes stacked in favor of someone who deserves to be punished.
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
Those numbers are absurd. Both of those clowns don't even pretend to support those assertions with actual data..
For a little context: 851 accidental gun deaths each year and 19,300 suicides with guns each year. 2.5 million times a year a gun is used to ward off a lowlife? Give me a break.
here is Criminologist Gary Kleck's wikipedia picture:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa9%2FMf0145.jpg%2F245px-Mf0145.jpg&hash=ee85cbae64c89803fa48bd34a9f30d17a4f2ad5c)
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everyone but make it rain shutup
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If Martin Zimmerman felt he was in danger he, by law, can protect himself.
:dunno:
Goddamnit, I give you somewhat of a compliment and you go with an Emo argument. I said this before and I'll say it again, Martin was going home and trouble found him, Zimmerman was looking for trouble and he found it. Zimmerman following and then chasing Martin was the causative action.
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it's like i'm talking to a brick wall here. move this SOB to the god forsaken PIT, for HEAVEN'S SAKES you guys
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it's like i'm talking to a brick wall here. move this SOB to the god forsaken PIT, for HEAVEN'S SAKES you guys
no, get past some of the dumbfucks and there is good conversation happening and it's not wholly political.
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here is Criminologist Gary Kleck's wikipedia picture:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2Fa%2Fa9%2FMf0145.jpg%2F245px-Mf0145.jpg&hash=ee85cbae64c89803fa48bd34a9f30d17a4f2ad5c)
Holy cow. He probably accounted for 1 million self defenses last year alone. Maybe Emo's numbers are accurate. (https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fe.deviantart.net%2Femoticons%2Fs%2Fsherlock.gif&hash=72c34a174e3fcd86c03aed692a7dddce1e3673dd)
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
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it's like i'm talking to a brick wall here. move this SOB to the god forsaken PIT, for HEAVEN'S SAKES you guys
no, behind some of the dumbfucks there is good conversation going on and it's not wholly political.
the pit is not political, don't kid yourself. it's just for people to argue until they're blue in the face (hands?) about stuff that brings you down.
not combo board material
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
yes, very awful law
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Every time someone kills someone in self defense my point is made. That happens a lot.
No it isn't.
Sure it is. Someone kills someone, cops don't have the evidence to prosecute, point made. While "murder" may have been committed by the letter of the law, you can't arrest without the evidence that would support a conviction.
How often does an unarmed teenager who isn't even trespassing on somebody's property killed in self defense?
Don't know, but...
Criminologist Gary Kleck estimates that 2.5 million Americans use guns to defend themselves each year. Out of that number, 400,000 believe that but for their firearms, they would have been dead.
Professor Emeritus James Q. Wilson, the UCLA public policy expert, says: "We know from Census Bureau surveys that something beyond 100,000 uses of guns for self-defense occur every year. We know from smaller surveys of a commercial nature that the number may be as high as 2 1/2 or 3 million. We don't know what the right number is, but whatever the right number is, it's not a trivial number."
So millions of times a year someone "defends" themselves with guns. Of course someone doesn't die every time, but I'm betting lots do. I also guarantee some of those were suspicious but not prosecuted.
http://townhall.com/columnists/larryelder/2012/07/26/yes_guns_kill_but_how_often_are_they_used_in_selfdefense/page/full
Those numbers are absurd. Both of those clowns don't even pretend to support those assertions with actual data..
For a little context: 851 accidental gun deaths each year and 19,300 suicides with guns each year. 2.5 million times a year a gun is used to ward off a lowlife? Give me a break.
It could a lot lower, sure. But could be 100,000? I think so. That's a lot, IMO.
That is a lot. It could also be 1000. That's not a lot.
It's more than that. Pretty shocking we don't have statistics for that stuff, though.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
The first figure you posted showed that nearly 1 in 100 Americans successfully defend themselves with a gun every single year.
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
jeff foxworthy wrote that law. im positive.
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
jeff foxworthy wrote that law. im positive.
Hmmm. (https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fe.deviantart.net%2Femoticons%2Fs%2Fsherlock.gif&hash=72c34a174e3fcd86c03aed692a7dddce1e3673dd)
If being stripped of your Constitutional right to defend yourself makes you more “safe” according to the government — you might live in a nation that was founded by geniuses but is run by idiots.
It looks like he might have at least been a co-author.
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
jeff foxworthy wrote that law. im positive.
I thought it well stated here with regards to Stand Your Ground and the NRA's basic creation of it, (from Wash Post)
What’s insidious about Stand Your Ground laws is that in every jurisdiction that has them, these statutes tilt the balance of power in any street encounter in favor of the person who has a gun. That’s what happened in the Martin case. The law provides a perverse incentive for everyone to be armed.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it. I mean at least 150/yr or so. Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them. Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.
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If Martin Zimmerman felt he was in danger he, by law, can protect himself.
:dunno:
Goddamnit, I give you somewhat of a compliment and you go with an Emo argument. I said this before and I'll say it again, Martin was going home and trouble found him, Zimmerman was looking for trouble and he found it. Zimmerman following and then chasing Martin was the causative action.
It was sarcastic, I had the :) originally but changed it last second. I did appreciate the compliment though
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
yes, very awful law
This law is not at issue in this case.
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Am I the only one who doesn't think this whole thing is interesting or remarkable in any way?
No. That's why I'm mocking the crap out of it. Should be a non-story, like Tebow.
Absolutely shouldn't be a non-story, btw.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
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OK, so this "stand your ground law" sounds kinda fishy.
If wikapedia is not lying to me, it seems the law is actually NOT good for the same sorts of people who seem to be in favor of it.
Another analysis of stand-your-ground laws by economists at Georgia State, using monthly data from the U.S. Vital Statistics, found a significant increase in homicide and injury among whites, especially white males.[8] They also analyzed data from the Health Care Utilization Project, which revealed significantly increased rates of emergency room visits and hospital discharges related to gun injuries in states which enacted these laws.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stand-your-ground_law
yes, very awful law
This law is not at issue in this case.
yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?
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I would feel compelled to defend myself against a guy who jumped out of his car and chased me down with a gun in the middle of the night.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?
Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ
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What a sad deal, if you go looking for trouble, you're usually going to find it, why go look for trouble?
Just go home.
.
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I would feel compelled to defend myself against a guy who jumped out of his car and chased me down with a gun in the middle of the night.
I think Martin kept the fact that he had a gun a secret. Not sure why.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?
Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ
Those aren't competing claims.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it. I mean at least 150/yr or so. Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them. Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.
I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.
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yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.
:lol:
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Hey dumbass, even if Martin did initiate contact in your wild ass assumptive scenario, depending on circumstance Martin could have the legal right to do so. Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't lift his shirt and show the gun? Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't say "n-word, I'm going to beat, rape, drag, hang, and burn you for walking in my neighborhood?" No, none of this know any of this.
Good lord, talk about wild ass conspiracies. If Zimmerman had first flashed his gun, do you really think Martin would have attacked him? And I'm pretty confident that Zimmerman didn't say any of those ridiculous things because, if he had, Dee Dee would have heard them. Again, she swears that she clearly heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?"
What we do know is that Zimmerman actively pursued, even chased, an unarmed law abiding 17 year old kid and ended up shooting him to death. I don't care about the circumstances of the interim because we can't know what happened. I thought gun owners were supposed to be well trained and responsible?
There was nothing unlawful about approaching Martin. And what happened in between then and Martin's death means everything. Dee Dee's testimony seems to indicate that Martin is most likely to have initiated contact, and the testimony of the nearest eye witness (Good) is that Martin was straddling Zimmerman and and beating him, which is consistent with his injuries.
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it. I mean at least 150/yr or so. Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them. Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.
I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.
that would be the lead story on the omaha news for a month and they would throw an annual parade for the gun guy
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it. I mean at least 150/yr or so. Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them. Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.
I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.
Because if there is anything we know about gun owners, it is that they hate talking about how they chased off a home-invading meth head with their gun....
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Hey Nuts Kicked. Its more than that. Ok? It is pretty insane we don't have statistics that aren't completely made up to back him up on this point. But come on. You know it is more than 1,000 times a year that a guy with a gun is a complete hero and justifies having a gun with him and gets all the babes and buy a gun right over here because america.
That's less than 3 times a day in a country with 300M people and just as many guns. Sniff test brah.
Should be crap tons of anecdotal news stories about it. I mean at least 150/yr or so. Kind of weird I hardly ever hear about them. Since we have forgone any pretense about just going with our feelings here.
I would bet most of the stories are meth-head breaks into a house and gets chased out by dude with gun. non-story.
that would be the lead story on the omaha news for a month and they would throw an annual parade for the gun guy
there would at least be a police report filed.
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yeah, we've been over that. you keep us up to date on the quality of the witnesses and how high they are going to get though ok.
:lol:
For those who don't know how to use Google, that's a joke based on Dee Dee's own (deleted) tweets.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
Its a great post and dead on. Trayvon was running from George, running from him. How in the hell does running from someone constitute an aggressive act? How does chasing someone not constitute an aggressive act?
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Hey dumbass, even if Martin did initiate contact in your wild ass assumptive scenario, depending on circumstance Martin could have the legal right to do so. Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't lift his shirt and show the gun? Are you sure that Zimmerman didn't say "n-word, I'm going to beat, rape, drag, hang, and burn you for walking in my neighborhood?" No, none of this know any of this.
Good lord, talk about wild ass conspiracies. If Zimmerman had first flashed his gun, do you really think Martin would have attacked him? And I'm pretty confident that Zimmerman didn't say any of those ridiculous things because, if he had, Dee Dee would have heard them. Again, she swears that she clearly heard Zimmerman say "what are you doing here?"
What we do know is that Zimmerman actively pursued, even chased, an unarmed law abiding 17 year old kid and ended up shooting him to death. I don't care about the circumstances of the interim because we can't know what happened. I thought gun owners were supposed to be well trained and responsible?
There was nothing unlawful about approaching Martin. And what happened in between then and Martin's death means everything. Dee Dee's testimony seems to indicate that Martin is most likely to have initiated contact, and the testimony of the nearest eye witness (Good) is that Martin was straddling Zimmerman and and beating him, which is consistent with his injuries.
I can't have a conversation if you either don't understand my point or refuse to. I'm not going to repeat this basic premise for you, if you don't get it I'm okay with calling this good.
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The thing about this that grinds me is that there is just as much evidence that Trayvon was defending himself against George as the other way around, but only one of them gets to test their story against the burden of proof.
lol, that is just silly and not true
Oh really? How are you so sure, exactly?
Well, there is no evidence that Zimmerman initiated any sort of attack yet there is plenty of evidence/eye witnesses that prove Trayvon beat the crap out of GZ
Pretty sure any reasonable non-racist non-gun nut person would consider it initiating an attack when a well-documented hotheaded vigilante wannabe with a gun disregards 911 operators and stalks an innocent teenager in the night.
Sorry that George Zimmerman is such a pussy bitch that he can't finish the fights he starts. I know that hurts. :dunno:
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Shouldn't the NSA jump in here with the recording of the Rachel-Trayvon phone call?
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
I ignore it because it doesn't rough ridin' matter. Zimmerman should have stopped at calling the cops. Period. No one's stuff is worth even the confrontation.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
Because it doesn't rough ridin' matter. Zimmerman should have stopped at calling the cops. Period. No one's stuff is worth even the confrontation.
Well we just see the situation in 2 completely different lights
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
it matters more to TM who just got confronted by a stranger with a gun in the middle of the night while trying to get away from him
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I don't really think that George stalked Martin with the intent to murder him. I do think that he had a pistol packing tough guy complex and was unafraid of initiating a conflict because he knew he was carrying a gun.
I think you guys (ell, ksuw) are right in that, from the perspective of a juror, there is no way he is convicted of murder in this case.
If you honestly think George made the right call here, then I am sad.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Except he didn't, he wasn't, and now he's dead. And I absolutely think he stalked him. What else do you call it when a shithead with a gun and an itchy trigger finger blatantly disregards the advice of professionals telling him to stop, and said shithead follows an unarmed and innocent teenager and ends up killing him? Stalking is exactly what happened. And now a kid who went to get some Skittles is dead because Geoge Zimmerman couldn't win the fight he started.
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Well we just see the situation in 2 completely different lights
Do you think Martin's death is acceptable collateral damage for preventing robberies? LET THE rough ridin' POLICE DEAL WITH IT
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Except he didn't, he wasn't, and now he's dead. And I absolutely think he stalked him. What else do you call it when a shithead with a gun and an itchy trigger finger blatantly disregards the advice of professionals telling him to stop, and said shithead follows an unarmed and innocent teenager and ends up killing him? Stalking is exactly what happened.
So from the moment Zimm stepped out of his car, his thought process was "I'm going to kill this n-word"??
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
This is the exact reason why he should have stayed in the car and waited for the cops. Instead, he tried being a rough ridin' hero, and ended up killing an unarmed civilian. There are consequences to the choices we make in life.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
Yup, I'm a well documented gun nut conservative.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Except he didn't, he wasn't, and now he's dead. And I absolutely think he stalked him. What else do you call it when a shithead with a gun and an itchy trigger finger blatantly disregards the advice of professionals telling him to stop, and said shithead follows an unarmed and innocent teenager and ends up killing him? Stalking is exactly what happened.
So from the moment Zimm stepped out of his car, his thought process was "I'm going to kill this n-word"??
only you could think that's what he said (and I don't believe you actually do)
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
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Silpada: Stolen
Penalty: Death
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Trayvon was carrying some of that highly coveted Skittles jewelry.
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
Pffft, totally
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Trayvon was carrying some of that highly coveted Skittles jewelry.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.guim.co.uk%2Fsys-images%2FGuardian%2FPix%2Fpictures%2F2013%2F6%2F25%2F1372195290466%2FGeorge-Zimmerman-trial-sk-010.jpg&hash=842d20bf452a8b0382a1dcc35c0490872440c1b7)
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Trayvon was carrying some of that highly coveted Skittles jewelry.
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Trayvon was carrying some of that highly coveted Skittles jewelry.
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
What the eff does that have to do with anything?
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Trayvon was carrying some of that highly coveted Skittles jewelry.
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
What the eff does that have to do with anything?
nothing
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lots
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Thanks SD :thumbs:
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Thanks SD :thumbs:
:thumbs:
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Would you really confront someone who you thought had stolen jewelry and cash in their pockets? Keeping in mind you kind of have to assume they're potentially armed? Under what circumstance is this a good idea?
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
So you're certain that (because the only other true witness is dead) George Zimmerman must be telling the truth about this?
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
Well, good. At least you're forming your own, independent opinion. I respect that. I guess what I don't understand is how you can come to the conclusion that death was justified in this case. As a citizen, I prefer to see justice prevail. Murdering an unarmed civilian in the middle of the night, simply because you suspected them of wrongdoing, isn't justified.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
Wouldn't he be carrying something if he had just robbed a house? I mean, good grief.
Yes because jewelry and cash don't fit in pockets, duh
Would you really confront someone who you thought had stolen jewelry and cash in their pockets? Keeping in mind you kind of have to assume they're potentially armed? Under what circumstance is this a good idea?
It depends. Have they taken the pot? Am I aware of their taking of the pot?
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
Well, good. At least you're forming your own, independent opinion. I respect that. I guess what I don't understand is how you can come to the conclusion that death was justified in this case. As a citizen, I prefer to see justice prevail. Murdering an unarmed civilian in the middle of the night, simply because you suspected them of wrongdoing, isn't justified.
Death was not justified but neither is a conviction of 2nd degree murder. Like I said earlier, Manslaughter should be the charge here
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
Don't you think the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman grabbed Martin and yelled "What are you doing here?" I mean, that would start a shoving match that leads to a fight, and he had to be close enough to Martin for his girlfriend to clearly hear what he said. I really doubt that Zimmerman just walked up and politely asked Martin why he was there.
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Beams bringing the heat. Yes or no q
Uestion for Zimm supporters: if GZ receives no punishment at all for this, will you feel that justice has been served?
Conversely, if Zimmerman does receive punishment, will you feel it was a miscarriage of justice?
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Shouldn't the NSA jump in here with the recording of the Rachel-Trayvon phone call?
The Utah facility isn't done yet.
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
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Beams bringing the heat. Yes or no q
Uestion for Zimm supporters: if GZ receives no punishment at all for this, will you feel that justice has been served?
Conversely, if Zimmerman does receive punishment, will you feel it was a miscarriage of justice?
GZ deserves some sort of punishment but not 25-life, not even close
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
What if he was a ninja?
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
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And I mean like a certified ninja with all the paperwork.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
What if he was a ninja?
In his mind, I think he was. I know it's completely irrelevant, but I think it would be a good social experiment to see if people who support Zimmerman would hold a cop to a higher standard. Of course, you would have to be a pretty shitty cop to ever find yourself in the position Zimmerman was in in the first place.
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
And he's really fat now, too.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
What if he was a ninja?
In his mind, I think he was.
Please note addendum RE paperwork
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
And he's really fat now, too.
bet he did nothing but sit on his couch with enormous, soft cushions watching Friday Night Lights on Netflix for the last year.
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
And he's really fat now, too.
bet he did nothing but sit on his couch with enormous, soft cushions watching Friday Night Lights on Netflix for the last year.
He probably watched every episode of Law and Order ever aired.
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
So you're certain that (because the only other true witness is dead) George Zimmerman must be telling the truth about this?
No, this is what "Dee Dee" says she heard. She is pro-Martin, so why would she lie about that?
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
And he's really fat now, too.
bet he did nothing but sit on his couch with enormous, soft cushions watching Friday Night Lights on Netflix for the last year.
He probably watched every episode of Law and Order ever aired.
he must kick himself every time they discuss carrying a throw down
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
House and vehicle break ins are frequent occurrences in most zip codes in the country. Should I have approached you like you were a felonious thug and subsequently shot you when you objected when you walked by my car two Saturdays ago?
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I don't really think that George stalked Martin with the intent to murder him. I do think that he had a pistol packing tough guy complex and was unafraid of initiating a conflict because he knew he was carrying a gun.
I think you guys (ell, ksuw) are right in that, from the perspective of a juror, there is no way he is convicted of murder in this case.
If you honestly think George made the right call here, then I am sad.
I'm sure a lot of this has been said or hinted at, but I thought this post summed up everything pretty nicely. At least from how I feel.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
Well, good. At least you're forming your own, independent opinion. I respect that. I guess what I don't understand is how you can come to the conclusion that death was justified in this case. As a citizen, I prefer to see justice prevail. Murdering an unarmed civilian in the middle of the night, simply because you suspected them of wrongdoing, isn't justified.
Well said.
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I don't there is a Team Trayvon and a Team George here. I think we have a Team What We Think Happened and a Team What Can Be Proved in Court. (cept emo is team george)
no, there's clearly a Team George.
Yeah. And it's really weird. Because he is an unlikeable guy. That HAS to be an awkward team to be on.
yeah. He isn't just unlikeable, he killed a guy.
Exactly. He was already extremely unlikeable. And THEN he killed a guy. That is just a lot of baggage.
And he's really fat now, too.
bet he did nothing but sit on his couch with enormous, soft cushions watching Friday Night Lights on Netflix for the last year.
He probably watched every episode of Law and Order ever aired.
he must kick himself every time they discuss carrying a throw down
oh god, when they had to go to the rough ridin' judge to get a warrant. FUUUUUUUUUUUUCK
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
Don't you think the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman grabbed Martin and yelled "What are you doing here?" I mean, that would start a shoving match that leads to a fight, and he had to be close enough to Martin for his girlfriend to clearly hear what he said. I really doubt that Zimmerman just walked up and politely asked Martin why he was there.
I don't know about "most likely," but it's possible that's what happened. Certainly a lot more possible than the wild ass crazy pills hypothetical of Zimmerman brandishing his piece and screaming "I don't like the look or you, n-word." Make It Rain is currently working on some more of these now.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
House and vehicle break ins are frequent occurrences in most zip codes in the country. Should I have approached you like you were a felonious thug and subsequently shot you when you objected when you walked by my car two Saturdays ago?
If you had previous issues with guys in purple shirts and Justin beiber name tags, sure :D
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
So you're certain that (because the only other true witness is dead) George Zimmerman must be telling the truth about this?
No, this is what "Dee Dee" says she heard. She is pro-Martin, so why would she lie about that?
Hey fuckface, stop acting like that was their only interaction before Zimmerman got his ass kicked. That's the only sentence we know for a 100% fact that Zimmerman said in the altercation. It doesn't mean that that was the only thing said. We don't even know as fact that all of Zimmerman's injuries were caused by Martin.
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
Don't you think the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman grabbed Martin and yelled "What are you doing here?" I mean, that would start a shoving match that leads to a fight, and he had to be close enough to Martin for his girlfriend to clearly hear what he said. I really doubt that Zimmerman just walked up and politely asked Martin why he was there.
I don't know about "most likely," but it's possible that's what happened. Certainly a lot more possible than the wild ass crazy pills hypothetical of Zimmerman brandishing his piece and screaming "I don't like the look or you, n-word." Make It Rain is currently working on some more of these now.
You're the only moron who didn't understand the device I was using there, no one is going to ride with you here.
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
Don't you think the most likely scenario is that Zimmerman grabbed Martin and yelled "What are you doing here?" I mean, that would start a shoving match that leads to a fight, and he had to be close enough to Martin for his girlfriend to clearly hear what he said. I really doubt that Zimmerman just walked up and politely asked Martin why he was there.
I don't know about "most likely," but it's possible that's what happened. Certainly a lot more possible than the wild ass crazy pills hypothetical of Zimmerman brandishing his piece and screaming "I don't like the look or you, n-word." Make It Rain is currently working on some more of these now.
I can't believe you think it is unreasonable for someone that was chased and has become lost to then confront the person chasing him. It is called Fight or Flight response for a reason.
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman. That's the eye witness of Good, who had the closest view and most accurately described GZ and TM. It's also consistent with GZ's injuries. It's also consistent with GZ's back being covered in grass. It's also consistent with the position of TM's body. TM was shot in the chest, but he was found face down with his arms under him. So unless GZ shot him while standing above him, then rolled him over onto his chest, he was shot while above GZ and then fell over.
The only witness to claim that GZ was on top of TM made this judgment only on seeing shadows. She assumed the larger person was on top, and then assumed that GZ was the larger person based on watching the news and seeing pictures of TM in a hoodie (face only) and a football uniform (when he was 12 or 13).
So for the state, it seems they've only got a few routes to conviction. They need to convince the jury that GM started the fight (he deserved it), that GZ is a racist POS (eff the law, he deserved it), or that despite GZ getting his crap kicked in, lethal force still wasn't reasonable (seems unlikely, but jurors have done crazier things).
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Hey fuckface
:cry:
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
House and vehicle break ins are frequent occurrences in most zip codes in the country. Should I have approached you like you were a felonious thug and subsequently shot you when you objected when you walked by my car two Saturdays ago?
If you had previous issues with guys in purple shirts and Justin beiber name tags, sure :D
My brief IRL interaction with you leads me to believe that you are a decent dude, but I want you to know clearly that nothing about this situation is humorous to me. I am a black man and if I were wearing my black goEMAW hoodie that could have been me. Now I don't think it would have because I think he took Trayvon as a mark, not to kill but to be confronted. I didn't race to be an issue but there is no doubt that it is an issue and Martin was profiled. If those burglars were white, and some of them may have been, no one would have dared stop and confront every white male walking those streets as a person fitting the description. I'm a college educated, handsome, and well dressed professional with two white kids of my own; yet in the eyes of some I'm just another n-word who fits the description and its sobering that could get me killed.
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
House and vehicle break ins are frequent occurrences in most zip codes in the country. Should I have approached you like you were a felonious thug and subsequently shot you when you objected when you walked by my car two Saturdays ago?
If you had previous issues with guys in purple shirts and Justin beiber name tags, sure :D
My brief IRL interaction with you leads me to believe that you are a decent dude, but I want you to know clearly that nothing about this situation is humorous to me. I am a black man and if I were wearing my black goEMAW hoodie that could have been me. Now I don't think it would have because I think he took Trayvon as a mark, not to kill but to be confronted. I didn't race to be an issue but there is no doubt that it is an issue and Martin was profiled. If those burglars were white, and some of them may have been, no one would have dared stop and confront every white male walking those streets as a person fitting the description. I'm a college educated, handsome, and well dressed professional with two white kids of my own; yet in the eyes of some I'm just another n-word who fits the description and its sobering that could get me killed.
Race totally had nothing to do with it, though, remember?
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I'm sure it's just a coincidence that everyone on Team Zimmerman is a gun nut conservative.
I'm as far opposite as can be
Well, good. At least you're forming your own, independent opinion. I respect that. I guess what I don't understand is how you can come to the conclusion that death was justified in this case. As a citizen, I prefer to see justice prevail. Murdering an unarmed civilian in the middle of the night, simply because you suspected them of wrongdoing, isn't justified.
Are you certain that Zimmerman is guilty of murder even though the trial has just started? I'm not a Zimmerman or Martin supporter, I just believe there is going to be a mountain of new evidence come out as the trial proceeds.
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If you honestly think he "stalked" Martin with the intention of killing him then you are rough ridin' high. He's a wanna-be cop neighborhood watch volunteer in a neighborhood that had multiple robberies commited by African American males in the last year. At the time, he has no idea who Trayvon is because Trayvon DOES NOT LIVE THERE so forgive him for being a little suspicious. He has no idea that Martin is not armed, he has no idea what Martin's intentions are. For all he knew, Martin could have just robbed a house and was calmly walking away
yeah, Martin also could have been walking back to his dad's house after getting some skittles for all Zimmerman knew. NO WAY FOR HIM TO KNOW SO I'M GLAD HE ERRED ON THE SIDE OF CAUTION
I love how everyone ignores the facts about what happened in this neighborhood in the recent months like it doesn't matter
House and vehicle break ins are frequent occurrences in most zip codes in the country. Should I have approached you like you were a felonious thug and subsequently shot you when you objected when you walked by my car two Saturdays ago?
If you had previous issues with guys in purple shirts and Justin beiber name tags, sure :D
My brief IRL interaction with you leads me to believe that you are a decent dude, but I want you to know clearly that nothing about this situation is humorous to me. I am a black man and if I were wearing my black goEMAW hoodie that could have been me. Now I don't think it would have because I think he took Trayvon as a mark, not to kill but to be confronted. I didn't race to be an issue but there is no doubt that it is an issue and Martin was profiled. If those burglars were white, and some of them may have been, no one would have dared stop and confront every white male walking those streets as a person fitting the description. I'm a college educated, handsome, and well dressed professional with two white kids of my own; yet in the eyes of some I'm just another n-word who fits the description and its sobering that could get me killed.
I agree with some of your points and can definitely see where the other side of the argument is coming from. The whole thing is a messed up and very sad situation. My standing isn't on "Team Zimm" as if he is completely innocent and did nothing wrong. It's more so does the punishment fit the crime.
I do think that Zimm profiled Trayvon as he was walking home but no way do I believe that he had intent to kill Trayvon. Even when he pulled the trigger, I do not believe there was intent to kill. In the struggle I believe he just pulled the gun and shot, in the heat of the moment when he is getting beat up he isn't going to try and aim for a leg or shoulder. Just grab and shoot.
In hindsight, Zimmerman should have stayed in the car as dispatch told him to do but he didn't. In his mind he was following a possible criminal and might be able to "save the day".
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
You're awful
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
You're awful
K-S-U is clearly in team George, though I would give that team a different, more fitting name.
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Team World Forum?
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
You're awful
Just pointing out the stupidity of the "skittles and iced tea" talking point. Skittles and ice tea didn't do that to Zimmerman's face.
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
You're awful
Just pointing out the stupidity of the "skittles and iced tea" talking point. Skittles and ice tea didn't do that to Zimmerman's face.
I'm just pointing out that you're awful.
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Back to the evidence of the case, briefly, it now appears pretty well settled that Martin was on top of Zimmerman.
Doesn't exactly justify murdering a kid who is only armed with Skittles, tho. At least not in the eyes of any reasonable person.
Yup, armed only with Skittles, but that candy sure did some damage to GZ's face. I wonder if Martin said "Taste the Rainbow, Bitch!"
You're awful
Just pointing out the stupidity of the "skittles and iced tea" talking point. Skittles and ice tea didn't do that to Zimmerman's face.
You're right. Zimmerman not being man enough to win the fight he instigated did that to Zimmerman's face.
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How big of a pussy is Zimmerman that he thought the only way to get the 17 y/o who was 50+ lb lighter off of him was by shooting him?
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How big of a pussy is Zimmerman that he thought the only way to get the 17 y/o who was 50+ lb lighter off of him was by shooting him?
Dude's definitely a huge puss, which obvi makes K-S-U and the like upset.
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I think the answer to "What punishment should Zimmerman serve" would lie in the way he approached Martin and how the physical altercation was started. Problem is, we'll never know exactly what happened. This will be what gets him a lesser sentence.
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How big of a pussy is Zimmerman that he thought the only way to get the 17 y/o who was 50+ lb lighter off of him was by shooting him?
Dude's definitely a huge puss, which obvi makes K-S-U and the like upset.
Pretty big puss,
Zimmerman was a patient of Lyndzee Folgate, a physician’s assistant, since 2011. Here’s some points she addressed from her medical record of him when she treated ZImmerman’s condition. In short, there were minor injuries:
Zimmerman’s nose was straight, not broken. X-rays showed.
He didn’t have any kind of trauma to the head. He denied having a headache to her.
His lacerations were small and not deep— 2 centimeters and .5 centimeters. Stitches weren’t necessary.
There was no blood in his ears or inside his nose.
He was 5’7 and 204 pounds—overweight.
Recommended Zimmerman see an ENT Ear Nose Throat specialist. He said he wasn’t going to go.
He said he felt nauseous, which was classified as psychological
Her past records reveal of Zimmerman reveal:
"He started intense exercise with MMA. He was involved with mixed martial arts 3 times a week."
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How big of a pussy is Zimmerman that he thought the only way to get the 17 y/o who was 50+ lb lighter off of him was by shooting him?
When I was his age I was about Tryvon's size, 5'10", 155, and I could bench 210lbs (jtmhtdbrag). I know I could have beaten GZ to a pulp.
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Who is dee dee?
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Also, the "just give him manslaughter" is such a pussy stance to take. Either he justifiably defended himself, or he was in the wrong.
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Where does profiling come into play?
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
i don't want to put words in people's mouths, but i'd imagine that at least 9 out of 10 of the "it was murder" people would feel differently.
as a practical matter, if zimmerman was a cop, and everything else about the case were the same, he would not even be on trial.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
i don't want to put words in people's mouths, but i'd imagine that at least 9 out of 10 of the "it was murder" people would feel differently.
as a practical matter, zimmerman was a cop, and everything else about the case were the same, he would not even be on trial.
As a cop with a bloody head and broken nose he would be put on desk duty for a few weeks until the internal investigation is done and cleared.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
i don't want to put words in people's mouths, but i'd imagine that at least 9 out of 10 of the "it was murder" people would feel differently.
as a practical matter, if zimmerman was a cop, and everything else about the case were the same, he would not even be on trial.
TM shouldn't be expected to respond to someone playing cop on their night off the same way he would an actual cop.
My issue is that GZ ignored a dispatcher telling him to stop. At that point he became reckless in the situation and is at fault. If the cop ignored an authority telling him to leave it alone, he would be just as reckless and at fault.
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If the cop ignored an authority telling him to leave it alone, he would be just as reckless and at fault.
it's like you've never seen a movie about a cop.
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If the cop ignored an authority telling him to leave it alone, he would be just as reckless and at fault.
it's like you've never seen a movie about a cop.
All of those cop movies should have sequels about consequences
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If the cop ignored an authority telling him to leave it alone, he would be just as reckless and at fault.
it's like you've never seen a movie about a cop.
All of those cop movies should have sequels about consequences
People don't need to worry about consequences any more. no such thing in the U.S. of A.
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Who is dee dee?
The girl martin was on the phone with, she was on the stand wends/thurs.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
i don't want to put words in people's mouths, but i'd imagine that at least 9 out of 10 of the "it was murder" people would feel differently.
as a practical matter, if zimmerman was a cop, and everything else about the case were the same, he would not even be on trial.
I don't think a cop would have murdered Martin. Of course, this is the Sanford PD we're talking about.
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Everything the exact same but zim is a cop during the day? Yeah, I feel exactly the same. Maybe I'm the 1 out of 10.
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if zim was a cop and he was in uniform and on duty and asked the kid to stop because he wanted to talk to him and the kid kept walking and he was like please stop and he ran and then they eventually came head to head and then out of nowhere the kid started just beating the crap out of the cop then I guess lethal force or whatever. none of that happened in this case. an adult male tracked down a kid in the dark. Idk but if I was a kid and some adult male(not cop) was following me and cutting through yards, i'd be scared as crap and would throw punches if the guy cornered me.
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Would you guys feel differently about this case if Zimmerman were a police officer?
i don't want to put words in people's mouths, but i'd imagine that at least 9 out of 10 of the "it was murder" people would feel differently.
as a practical matter, if zimmerman was a cop, and everything else about the case were the same, he would not even be on trial.
I think it fair to say that both parties likely would have acted, or reacted, vastly different if zimm was a cop.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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I don't think a cop would have murdered Martin.
pfft.
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If Trayvon was a cop, he would have blasted GZ as soon as he cleared his car door.
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I don't think a cop would have murdered Martin.
pfft.
Yea made me chuckle.
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if zim was a cop and he was in uniform and on duty and asked the kid to stop because he wanted to talk to him and the kid kept walking and he was like please stop and he walked and then they eventually came head to head and then out if nowhere the kid started just beating the crap out of the cop then I guess lethal force or whatever. none of that happened in this case. an adult male tracked down a kid in the dark. Idk but if I was a kid and some adult male(not cop) was following me and cutting through yards, is be scared as crap and would throw punches if the guy cornered me.
Add to that the fact that Zimmerman thought TM was subhuman evident by his own words, "these assholes" "what are YOU doing here" Not saying its related to race, but he definitely was in hero-mode, ridding the earth of its scum.
With that frame of mind seems likely that when the encounter did happen that Zimmerman was in an aggressor state of mind. Even then, you can't blame TM for being the first to initiate the physical contact - for all he knew this sweating, clearly agitated man standing in the darkness had finally caught up to him.
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Well the subhuman thing is a bit of a leap.
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Well the subhuman thing is a bit of a leap.
What urge would you get if you thought you caught someone breaking into your neighbors place? I've known many people in Kansas that grab the nearest baseball bat and go on the pursuit. crap, I've seen people do that for someone who drives too fast around the cul-de-sac.
Once you've pinned someone as a criminal, thief, cheater, etc, etc, they become something less than human to you. Even normal people without histories of violence (not Zimmerman) succumb to it. It's intoxicating.
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Well the subhuman thing is a bit of a leap.
Lol, no. He called him "you" with emphasis for eff's sake. You wouldn't even talk to a dog like that. Get your crap together seven, you're slipping.
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haha
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On a related note, Paul Moscow apparently knows a lot of rough ridin' weirdos.
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On a related note, Paul Moscow apparently knows a lot of rough ridin' weirdos.
Yeah...suburbs
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Paul, what's your masked vigilante name?
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On a related note, Paul Moscow apparently knows a lot of rough ridin' weirdos.
Yeah...suburbs
Stay safe.
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I don't think a cop would have murdered Martin.
pfft.
Yea made me chuckle.
Listen, you dumbfucks. If an off-duty cop chases down Trayvon without identifying that he's a cop, gets his ass kicked and then blasts him, you bet your ass I'd be calling it murder.
The thing is, a uniformed cop would have acted completely differently, and in turn, so would Trayvon. So congrats on creating one of the dumbest, most irrelevant hypotheticals in history.
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I don't think a cop would have murdered Martin.
pfft.
Yea made me chuckle.
Listen, you dumbfucks. If an off-duty cop chases down Trayvon without identifying that he's a cop, gets his ass kicked and then blasts him, you bet your ass I'd be calling it murder.
The thing is, a uniformed cop would have acted completely differently, and in turn, so would Trayvon. So congrats on creating one of the dumbest, most irrelevant hypotheticals in history.
What in the world :eek:
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Pretty big puss,
Zimmerman was a patient of Lyndzee Folgate, a physician’s assistant, since 2011. Here’s some points she addressed from her medical record of him when she treated ZImmerman’s condition. In short, there were minor injuries:
Zimmerman’s nose was straight, not broken. X-rays showed.
He didn’t have any kind of trauma to the head. He denied having a headache to her.
His lacerations were small and not deep— 2 centimeters and .5 centimeters. Stitches weren’t necessary.
There was no blood in his ears or inside his nose.
He was 5’7 and 204 pounds—overweight.
Recommended Zimmerman see an ENT Ear Nose Throat specialist. He said he wasn’t going to go.
He said he felt nauseous, which was classified as psychological
Her past records reveal of Zimmerman reveal:
"He started intense exercise with MMA. He was involved with mixed martial arts 3 times a week."
You know how they say a picture's worth a thousand words? Well, here's 2000 words-worth of pictures presented during the cross-exam of Ms. Folgate (and lots of other times, too):
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatelymcdanielmanor.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fzimmerman-f-b.jpg&hash=c63887162b510b2365dc454d168550eab7dfcde3)
Now the state did exactly the right thing to put Folgate on to minimize GZ's injuries, but the pictures are likely to speak louder to the jury. The dude got beat up. The state can talk all it wants about how "superifical" the injuries were - they've still got to show beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ had no reasonable belief of imminent grave bodily harm, and these pictures make that pretty hard to do.
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Pretty big puss,
Zimmerman was a patient of Lyndzee Folgate, a physician’s assistant, since 2011. Here’s some points she addressed from her medical record of him when she treated ZImmerman’s condition. In short, there were minor injuries:
Zimmerman’s nose was straight, not broken. X-rays showed.
He didn’t have any kind of trauma to the head. He denied having a headache to her.
His lacerations were small and not deep— 2 centimeters and .5 centimeters. Stitches weren’t necessary.
There was no blood in his ears or inside his nose.
He was 5’7 and 204 pounds—overweight.
Recommended Zimmerman see an ENT Ear Nose Throat specialist. He said he wasn’t going to go.
He said he felt nauseous, which was classified as psychological
Her past records reveal of Zimmerman reveal:
"He started intense exercise with MMA. He was involved with mixed martial arts 3 times a week."
You know how they say a picture's worth a thousand words? Well, here's 2000 words-worth of pictures presented during the cross-exam of Ms. Folgate (and lots of other times, too):
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatelymcdanielmanor.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F12%2Fzimmerman-f-b.jpg&hash=c63887162b510b2365dc454d168550eab7dfcde3)
Now the state did exactly the right thing to put Folgate on to minimize GZ's injuries, but the pictures are likely to speak louder to the jury. The dude got beat up. The state can talk all it wants about how "superifical" the injuries were - they've still got to show beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ had no reasonable belief of imminent grave bodily harm, and these pictures make that pretty hard to do.
I hit my head on a door once and bled worse than that. Left a nasty scar too. Good thing i shot that door dead as was my god given right!
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Yeah. I'd love to see the wound after they rinsed the blood out of his hair. I'm guessing it's probably bad enough to warrant killing an unarmed teenager.
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One thing I don't get is why people really really want Trayvon Martin to be portrayed as someone who deserved it. I mean...he got shot and killed for no reason. We should probably do everything we can to make it seem like he was the worst 17 year-old in history.
Weird line of thinking.
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One thing I don't get is why people really really want Trayvon Martin to be portrayed as someone who deserved it. I mean...he got shot and killed for no reason. We should probably do everything we can to make it seem like he was the worst 17 year-old in history.
Weird line of thinking.
human skin equivalent of a leather miniskirt and fishnets. sad, really
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looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
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So let me get this straight, GZ's defense is "I followed around TM in the dark, he attacked me defending himself, giving me some cuts and might have broke my nose. TM didn't have the right to defend himself with his fists because someone was following him around in the dark and he felt threatened, so I used my right to blast him because I thought he was going to get my gun that I was carrying around while following him in the dark."
I don't care if everything GZ is saying in his defense is true, there should at least be some law that puts him away for double-digit years for wrongful death for following around someone in the dark while carrying a gun. A reasonable person would think "Hey I'm following around someone in the dark while carrying a gun, there is a good chance that this could lead to an altercation where the gun is discharged with a risk of death." If Florida doesn't have a lesser wrongful death, 10-15 years minimum in prison law that's applicable to this situation and available to the prosecution to present as a lesser charge option, that's mumped up.
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looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
reminds me of the time trim ran into that sign
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
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looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
Yeah, those injuries are pretty minor, and they definitely wouldn't have gotten worse had GZ not stopped him. I mean really, what reasonable person wouldn't have thought "this guy sure sure looks pissed and he's punching me in the face and I can get him off me, but I don't think it would reasonable to use my gun until he beats me a little more. The tunnel vision thing hasn't even started yet." Leave it to a paranoid gun nut to ruin a perfectly innocent beatdown, all in good fun.
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it was him or TM. I can see that now (thanks to those pics).
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looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
Yeah, those injuries are pretty minor, and they definitely wouldn't have gotten worse had GZ not stopped him. I mean really, what reasonable person wouldn't have thought "this guy sure sure looks pissed and he's punching me in the face and I can get him off me, but I don't think it would reasonable to use my gun until he beats me a little more. The tunnel vision thing hasn't even started yet." Leave it to a paranoid gun nut to ruin a perfectly innocent beatdown, all in good fun.
I thought GZ said that TM threatened to take his gun. I mean, if you notice the person who was following you around in the dark had a gun, what reasonable person wouldn't have thought "I better make sure this guy following me in the dark with a gun is down for good before he pulls that gun and shoots me." Leave it to the paranoid guy getting followed in the dark to continue fighting the guy with the gun so he can ruin both their lives.
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So let me get this straight, GZ's defense is "I followed around TM in the dark, he attacked me defending himself, giving me some cuts and might have broke my nose. TM didn't have the right to defend himself with his fists because someone was following him around in the dark and he felt threatened, so I used my right to blast him because I thought he was going to get my gun that I was carrying around while following him in the dark."
I don't care if everything GZ is saying in his defense is true, there should at least be some law that puts him away for double-digit years for wrongful death for following around someone in the dark while carrying a gun. A reasonable person would think "Hey I'm following around someone in the dark while carrying a gun, there is a good chance that this could lead to an altercation where the gun is discharged with a risk of death." If Florida doesn't have a lesser wrongful death, 10-15 years minimum in prison law that's applicable to this situation and available to the prosecution to present as a lesser charge option, that's mumped up.
There is a sentence that does that.....second deg murder.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
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If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
i agree.
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
The goEMAW groupthink is as strong as I've ever seen it in this thread, and it's why this thread is a rough ridin' dumpster fire.
This post shows just how dumb we're all being:
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
The goEMAW groupthink is as strong as I've ever seen it in this thread, and it's why this thread is a rough ridin' dumpster fire.
This post shows just how dumb we're all being:
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
Pretty sure that post just shows how dumb skinny benny is being.
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I felt pretty solid about most of my posts and would stand behind them in a court of law.
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
The goEMAW groupthink is as strong as I've ever seen it in this thread, and it's why this thread is a rough ridin' dumpster fire.
This post shows just how dumb we're all being:
Let's divide up Team Trayvon and Team Zimmerman in this thread. Which side do you think has more posters who could consistently be seen as quality posters and which side has more posters who could be listed as kinda garbagey? Yep.
notes how dumb everyone in the thread is : shows skinny benny post as evidence
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I felt pretty solid about most of my posts and would stand behind them in a court of law.
outlier : skinny benny post as evidence
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:D :babywillie:
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Legal guys. Let's say GZ gets off. What are the chances the Martin family roasts him in a civil suit for wrongful death or whatever? Thinking of like a Goldman family v. OJ thing here.
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Legal guys. Let's say GZ gets off. What are the chances the Martin family roasts him in a civil suit for wrongful death or whatever? Thinking of like a Goldman family v. OJ thing here.
nearly 100% they try.
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Well I should hope so. They deserve it.
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Legal guys. Let's say GZ gets off. What are the chances the Martin family roasts him in a civil suit for wrongful death or whatever? Thinking of like a Goldman family v. OJ thing here.
nearly 100% they try.
It would have a good shot going in their favor.
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I DO NOT rough ridin' CARE ABOUT TRAVYON OR GEORGE. eff BOTH OF THEM.
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ALSO. I THINK WE HAVE THE MOST CONSERVATIVE FANBASE IN THE COUNTRY.
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I think GZ deserves death, but I think that about pretty much all repeat violent criminals. It's like, you were violent once, paid your debt, then were violent again? See ya, we don't need your trash on this overpopulated rock.
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the goEMAW groupthink taking a stand against killing teenagers is soooo strong. WAKE UP, goEMAW SHEEPLE
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Both sides of this argument are hilarious, btw.
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the goEMAW groupthink taking a stand against killing teenagers is soooo strong. WAKE UP, goEMAW SHEEPLE
if it was really groupthink, you'd be against it (for it).
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
Please don't lump me in with MIR. If I was on the jury, I'd consider all the evidence and apply it to the law. From what I've seen so far, the relative lack of eye witness testimony in favor of the state, coupled with the fact that much of the eye witness testimony, GZ's injuries, etc are consistent with his theory of self defense, make it very very unlikely that the state can meet its burden of proof beyond a reasonable doubt. There is TONS of doubt. We haven't even got into the defense's witnesses yet. This is all coming from people the state put on.
I just get a little irritated by all the internet tuff guys around here who want to pretend they'd act differently if they were pinned to the ground taking punches to the face.
Probably the biggest divide upon which reasonable people can disagree is I don't think there was anything wrong with GZ approaching TM to ask "what are you doing here" and I don't think that justified getting jumped. If you want to disagree on whether that's what actually happened, fine. Nobody can know for sure.
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the goEMAW groupthink taking a stand against killing teenagers is soooo strong. WAKE UP, goEMAW SHEEPLE
a lot of people are supporting a position different from my own : goEMAW groupthink
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looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
reminds me of the time trim ran into that sign
I shot up the eff out of that sign once my head stopped ringing.
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An armed Zimmerman unnecessarily rolled up on a guy and eventually shot him. You're not allowed to do that. Well, I mean you are under Trim 3:16 but Trim 3:17 is deal with the consequences of doing whatever you want. Here, the consequence is that you have to go to prison.
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Like it or not, the country is better off without travon. You'd think the race baiting Nazi left would be glad for the greater community. Maybe we aren't close enough to utopia to cancel the hate mongering yet? Dunno.
Like GZ or not, the agenda must not be interfered with by some Hispanic's right to due process under the law. Hail Rev. Sharp ton, 4th Reich!
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FSD gon' FSD
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Like it or not, the country is better off without travon. You'd think the race baiting Nazi left would be glad for the greater community. Maybe we aren't close enough to utopia to cancel the hate mongering yet? Dunno.
Like GZ or not, the agenda must not be interfered with by some Hispanic's right to due process under the law. Hail Rev. Sharp ton, 4th Reich!
I think the country would be better off without GZ, so lets go ahead and convict that loser while we're at it.
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FSD gon' FSD
Honestly, I enjoyed his post.
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
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you guys think FSD just pops open threads and says to himself, "this thread could really use more shitty posts from poor ignorant racists, ON IT!"?
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FSD gon' FSD
Honestly, I enjoyed his post.
Nobody is surprised by this
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
People are pretty stupid when it comes to their stuff.
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
People are pretty stupid when it comes to their stuff.
Says all people who don't have their own stuff
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FSD gon' FSD
Honestly, I enjoyed his post.
Nobody is surprised by this
If someone talks about race baiting nazis, al sharpton, and the 4th reich in a thread about the travyon Martin trial I would think everyone could find that enjoyable.
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
People are pretty stupid when it comes to their stuff.
Says all people who don't have their own stuff
In yo face michigancat!
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
Maybe you should answer this question with some guy sitting on your chest punching you in the face over and over again.
It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him around poking him with a stick. The only fact that matters is that he started wailing on him.
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FSD gon' FSD
Honestly, I enjoyed his post.
Nobody is surprised by this
If someone talks about race baiting nazis, al sharpton, and the 4th reich in a thread about the travyon Martin trial I would think everyone could find that enjoyable.
It clearly hits a little too close to home for certain leftist losers
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So let's say there had been a bunch of robberies in the neighborhood. Let's say all the robbers looked like Trayvon. Let's say the Police weren't doing jack squat about it. Let's say at the time Trayvon was on his way to burgle and rob and the only person who could stop it was GZ.
I still don't think lethal force was necessary.
Maybe you should answer this question with some guy sitting on your chest punching you in the face over and over again.
It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him around poking him with a stick. The only fact that matters is that he started wailing on him.
only fact that matters.
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In fla, yes. Sorry you either refuse to accept that or don't like it. Believe it or not, there are consequences associated with attacking someone, including the possibility that your victim has a gun and uses it. Fortunately for victims, no matter what a p.o.s. they are, the law permits them to protect themselves while gawkers watch the whole thing like it were on ppv.
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Maybe you should answer this question with some guy sitting on your chest punching you in the face over and over again.
It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him around poking him with a stick. The only fact that matters is that he started wailing on him.
Yep, just go around with your gun and eff with people until they do something about it, and then shoot them.
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Maybe you should answer this question with some guy sitting on your chest punching you in the face over and over again.
It doesn't matter if Zimmerman was following him around poking him with a stick. The only fact that matters is that he started wailing on him.
Yep, just go around with your gun and eff with people until they do something about it, and then shoot them.
Wild wild west style. This is john wayne and clint eastwood's fault.
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it's the dream of every powerless person who now owns a gun and feels some sort of power for the first time in their life. GZ has spent hours in front of the mirror with his gun, the suddenly empowered gun owner. USA.
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But also he took those MMA lessons.
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Travyon did a ground and pound move on GZ
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Travyon did a ground and pound move on GZ
If true, GZ deserved it. :thumbs:
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Unfortunately, I think this all comes down to race. For some, because they think GZ racially profiled TM, he got what he deserved, and it doesn't matter who attacked who, or how the fight progressed, or the injuries that were sustained - no set of facts would give GZ the right to shoot in self defense. GZ racially profiled Martin and got what he deserved.
If these were two white guys, aside from nobody caring about the case, I really doubt they would feel so convinced that GZ had it coming.
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For some, because they think GZ racially profiled TM, he got what he deserved, and it doesn't matter who attacked who, or how the fight progressed, or the injuries that were sustained - no set of facts would give GZ the right to shoot in self defense. GZ racially profiled Martin and got what he deserved.
I'm good with this if you substitute "wrongly pursued a guy while armed with a gun" for "racially profiled."
Hey, that makes the whole thing simple and not about race!
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Unfortunately, I think this all comes down to race. For some, because they think GZ racially profiled TM, he got what he deserved, and it doesn't matter who attacked who, or how the fight progressed, or the injuries that were sustained - no set of facts would give GZ the right to shoot in self defense. GZ racially profiled Martin and got what he deserved.
If these were two white guys, aside from nobody caring about the case, I really doubt they would feel so convinced that GZ had it coming.
those claiming race baiting the people who are bringing up race the most in this thread. there isn't one thing going on with this mumped up situation. there are multiple things. He may have racially profiled the kid. but, that's not the primary thing he did wrong. killing him was.
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i don't think some of the white people who are defending GZ realize he is mexican.
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i don't think some of the white people who are defending GZ realize he is mexican.
It was pretty awesome when the msm first got wind of it and were making it white on black, then they were like, "oops, hes hispanic, uhh lets just not talk about his race', now there just like "some innocent black kid" and all the race baiters are :shakesfist: and still screaming racist and stuff
So lame. So predictable. So overplayed. So liberal.
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
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i don't think some of the white people who are defending GZ realize he is mexican.
He's not. He's half white half Peruvian or some crap, and it really doesn't matter except for those who see everything through the prism of race.
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For some, because they think GZ racially profiled TM, he got what he deserved, and it doesn't matter who attacked who, or how the fight progressed, or the injuries that were sustained - no set of facts would give GZ the right to shoot in self defense. GZ racially profiled Martin and got what he deserved.
I'm good with this if you substitute "wrongly pursued a guy while armed with a gun" for "racially profiled."
Hey, that makes the whole thing simple and not about race!
Yeah, respectfully, I think the whole "wrongly followed" thing is driven at least in part by a sense that TM was racially profiled. Again, I really doubt you would have the same convictions if TM had been white, but I could be wrong.
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0776/Sections/0776.013.html
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For some, because they think GZ racially profiled TM, he got what he deserved, and it doesn't matter who attacked who, or how the fight progressed, or the injuries that were sustained - no set of facts would give GZ the right to shoot in self defense. GZ racially profiled Martin and got what he deserved.
I'm good with this if you substitute "wrongly pursued a guy while armed with a gun" for "racially profiled."
Hey, that makes the whole thing simple and not about race!
Yeah, respectfully, I think the whole "wrongly followed" thing is driven at least in part by a sense that TM was racially profiled. Again, I really doubt you would have the same convictions if TM had been white, but I could be wrong.
No, it's driven by how normal people don't go out with guns and get in confrontational situations with others.
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
More precisely, it's going to come down to how the jurors understand the law, and whether they decide to faithfully follow it. The judge and the attorneys will try their best to educate the jurors on the law, but that only goes so far. It is quite possible that the jury may just "split the baby" and acquit on murder but convict on manslaughter, which is one reason why prosecutors often overcharge.
And just FYI, here are the laws at issue:
1. Second Degree Murder: There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. (This is where the state's allegations that GZ was a racist POS come into play, because otherwise it's gonna be really hard to prove the "depraved mind" part).
2. Manslaughter: An act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person. (This one is easy. GZ is guilty unless he acted in self defense. There is no dispute that he killed TM).
3. Self Defense: There are a number of statutes that come into play here, but ultimately it will come down to whether GZ reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death to himself or another. (This is what the case really boils down to.)
4. Burden of Proof: The state must prove Nos. 1 or 2, AND disprove No. 3, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
More precisely, it's going to come down to how the jurors understand the law, and whether they decide to faithfully follow it. The judge and the attorneys will try their best to educate the jurors on the law, but that only goes so far. It is quite possible that the jury may just "split the baby" and acquit on murder but convict on manslaughter, which is one reason why prosecutors often overcharge.
And just FYI, here are the laws at issue:
1. Second Degree Murder: There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. (This is where the state's allegations that GZ was a racist POS come into play, because otherwise it's gonna be really hard to prove the "depraved mind" part).
2. Manslaughter: An act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person. (This one is easy. GZ is guilty unless he acted in self defense. There is no dispute that he killed TM).
3. Self Defense: There are a number of statutes that come into play here, but ultimately it will come down to whether GZ reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death to himself or another. (This is what the case really boils down to.)
4. Burden of Proof: The state must prove Nos. 1 or 2, AND disprove No. 3, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
On #1, "depraved mind" is, as the late, great Kenny Santucci from RW/RR fame once said, simply not caring whether one lives or dies. They don't need to prove some beef Zimmerman had with Martin, or "those people" to put it in Pit terms.
On #3, I linked the statute. The presumptions come in when one's dwelling/residence/vehicle was entered. So you're left with this:
(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Was George engaged in lawful activity? Was he attacked while in a place he had a right to be? If so, did he have a reasonable belief that he needed to shoot Travon to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself?
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(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
i'm no lawyer, and i don't know the facts of the case, but based on the above and on reading this thread, it'd seem to me that both zimmerman and martin had a right to kill each other.
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(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
i'm no lawyer, and i don't know the facts of the case, but based on the above and on reading this thread, it'd seem to me that both zimmerman and martin had a right to kill each other.
It's definitely crossed my mind that the same law Zimmerman's relying on may be more applicable to Martin busting up Zimmerman. If so, I'd argue that the law can't apply to Zimmerman shooting because he wasn't engaged in lawful activity or in a place he had a right to be. He'd been rough ridin' with people to the point where he got rightfully got his ass kicked and/or he was in Martin's space (enough to where Martin had to kick his ass).
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But the talk radio I was listening to in south Alabama yesterday assures me that nothing matters in this case up until the point that TM struck GZ. None of the leadup matters. Sorry.
Oh! Also I was assured through the host's insinuations that Trayvon was a terrible person because he had previously dabbled in marijuana. Made no mention of George Zimmerman's previous documented history of nearly having a mark on his record of felonious assault on a police officer. http://www.nbcnews.com/video/nightly-news/46910559#46910559
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(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
i'm no lawyer, and i don't know the facts of the case, but based on the above and on reading this thread, it'd seem to me that both zimmerman and martin had a right to kill each other.
It's definitely crossed my mind that the same law Zimmerman's relying on may be more applicable to Martin busting up Zimmerman. If so, I'd argue that the law can't apply to Zimmerman shooting because he wasn't engaged in lawful activity or in a place he had a right to be. He'd been rough ridin' with people to the point where he got rightfully got his ass kicked and/or he was in Martin's space (enough to where Martin had to kick his ass).
How was anything Zimmerman did before shooting Martin unlawful? It's not illegal for him to be in that neighborhood. It's not illegal for a private citizen to racially profile someone. It's not illegal to ask someone what they're doing. It's not illegal to ignore a 911 operator. Those last three might be asking for trouble, but they aren't illegal. GZ is at fault for the confrontation happening due to ignoring the 911 operator, but nothing he did before the shooting broke the law.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
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(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
i'm no lawyer, and i don't know the facts of the case, but based on the above and on reading this thread, it'd seem to me that both zimmerman and martin had a right to kill each other.
It's definitely crossed my mind that the same law Zimmerman's relying on may be more applicable to Martin busting up Zimmerman. If so, I'd argue that the law can't apply to Zimmerman shooting because he wasn't engaged in lawful activity or in a place he had a right to be. He'd been rough ridin' with people to the point where he got rightfully got his ass kicked and/or he was in Martin's space (enough to where Martin had to kick his ass).
How was anything Zimmerman did before shooting Martin unlawful? It's not illegal for him to be in that neighborhood. It's not illegal for a private citizen to racially profile someone. It's not illegal to ask someone what they're doing. It's not illegal to ignore a 911 operator. Those last three might be asking for trouble, but they aren't illegal. GZ is at fault for the confrontation happening due to ignoring the 911 operator, but nothing he did before the shooting broke the law.
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.011.html
:dunno:
I'd ask Martin for details, but, you know...
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
Can't they tell with chowder burns from the gunshot wounds at what distance he was shot?
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
More precisely, it's going to come down to how the jurors understand the law, and whether they decide to faithfully follow it. The judge and the attorneys will try their best to educate the jurors on the law, but that only goes so far. It is quite possible that the jury may just "split the baby" and acquit on murder but convict on manslaughter, which is one reason why prosecutors often overcharge.
And just FYI, here are the laws at issue:
1. Second Degree Murder: There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. (This is where the state's allegations that GZ was a racist POS come into play, because otherwise it's gonna be really hard to prove the "depraved mind" part).
2. Manslaughter: An act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person. (This one is easy. GZ is guilty unless he acted in self defense. There is no dispute that he killed TM).
3. Self Defense: There are a number of statutes that come into play here, but ultimately it will come down to whether GZ reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death to himself or another. (This is what the case really boils down to.)
4. Burden of Proof: The state must prove Nos. 1 or 2, AND disprove No. 3, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
GZ had better hope the stand your ground law is at issue and not what you cite. I hope his lawyer knows better too, for his sake at least.
Ultimately, this will lead to a re draft of that law to prevent people from picking fights so they can get ass beat and then murder the person they picked a fight with.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
Can't they tell with chowder burns from the gunshot wounds at what distance he was shot?
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/05/17/autopsy-reportedly-shows-trayvon-martin-died-from-single-gunshot-wound-fired-at/
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Ultimately, this will lead to a re draft of that law to prevent people from picking fights so they can get ass beat and then murder the person they picked a fight with.
Really just opens up the wound that we should've been in the BCS 'ship in Miami in early January. We basically had a license to kill that whole trip.
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Doesn't add up, feels like he baited him to take the first punch so he could shoot him.
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Doesn't add up, feels like he baited him to take the first punch so he could shoot him.
Hadn't considered that.
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Legal guys. Let's say GZ gets off. What are the chances the Martin family roasts him in a civil suit for wrongful death or whatever? Thinking of like a Goldman family v. OJ thing here.
nearly 100% they try.
It would have a good shot going in their favor.
They will win the court case, but they are kidding themselves if they think they are actually going to see much money. Nobody is going to give Zimmerman a job after this.
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Legal guys. Let's say GZ gets off. What are the chances the Martin family roasts him in a civil suit for wrongful death or whatever? Thinking of like a Goldman family v. OJ thing here.
nearly 100% they try.
It would have a good shot going in their favor.
They will win the court case, but they are kidding themselves if they think they are actually going to see much money. Nobody is going to give Zimmerman a job after this.
Somebody will.
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/
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Someone needs to setup a fundraising site for GZ so the money idiots give him will go to Martin's family after the civil trail.
Also, don't be surprised when GZ becomes a celeb to a certain demo
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SYG is not an issue in this case.
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It's too bad Florida hires/pays prosecutors so poorly. I could be doing this case and this thread would rival Felix Rex's in insidery news.
Actually, it's a bad idea for the lawyers involved or their families to be commenting on social media or blog sites like this during the trial.
http://news.cnet.com/8301-17852_3-57591650-71/trayvon-martin-trial-spawns-insensitive-instagram-from-defense-lawyers-daughter/
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#dadkilledit
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#dadkilledit
Chick-fil-a ice cream, tho.
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It's going to come down to how that law is worded.
More precisely, it's going to come down to how the jurors understand the law, and whether they decide to faithfully follow it. The judge and the attorneys will try their best to educate the jurors on the law, but that only goes so far. It is quite possible that the jury may just "split the baby" and acquit on murder but convict on manslaughter, which is one reason why prosecutors often overcharge.
And just FYI, here are the laws at issue:
1. Second Degree Murder: There was an unlawful killing of the victim by an act imminently dangerous to another and demonstrating a depraved mind without regard for human life. (This is where the state's allegations that GZ was a racist POS come into play, because otherwise it's gonna be really hard to prove the "depraved mind" part).
2. Manslaughter: An act that was neither excusable, nor justified that resulted in the death of another person. (This one is easy. GZ is guilty unless he acted in self defense. There is no dispute that he killed TM).
3. Self Defense: There are a number of statutes that come into play here, but ultimately it will come down to whether GZ reasonably believed that the force was necessary to prevent imminent great bodily harm or death to himself or another. (This is what the case really boils down to.)
4. Burden of Proof: The state must prove Nos. 1 or 2, AND disprove No. 3, "beyond a reasonable doubt."
On #1, "depraved mind" is, as the late, great Kenny Santucci from RW/RR fame once said, simply not caring whether one lives or dies. They don't need to prove some beef Zimmerman had with Martin, or "those people" to put it in Pit terms.
On #3, I linked the statute. The presumptions come in when one's dwelling/residence/vehicle was entered. So you're left with this:
(3)?A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
Was George engaged in lawful activity? Was he attacked while in a place he had a right to be? If so, did he have a reasonable belief that he needed to shoot Travon to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself?
Yes, GZ was engaged in lawful activity, and he had a right to be there. I don't believe this is in dispute, from a legal standpoint. So youre left with whether GZ had a reasonable belief that deadly force was necessary to prevent death or great bodily harm, just like I said above.
I guess I should clarify that the reason the SYG portion of the above statute does not apply is because of the facts and the defenses theory of the case. If TM was pinning GZ, he couldn't retreat, and if GZ was instead on top of TM, then self defense probably wouldn't apply anyway.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
An eyewitness witness for the prosecution has already testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him when he heard the shot, and that Martin fell to the side.
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Yes, GZ was engaged in lawful activity, and he had a right to be there. I don't believe this is in dispute, from a legal standpoint.
It's undisputed that what Zimmerman did up until Martin stopped him was lawful?
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
An eyewitness witness for the prosecution has already testified that Martin was on top of Zimmerman beating him when he heard the shot, and that Martin fell to the side.
Good.
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So, I've got a confession. When I posted this...
looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
reminds me of the time trim ran into that sign
I shot up the eff out of that sign once my head stopped ringing.
... I was lying. Joshing, if you will. I didn't shoot that sign. I didn't even have my gun there. I pretty much never have my gun. The only times I take it out of its spot in my room are when I need to go to the shooting range and make sure I still know how to use it, and to shoot someone (hasn't happened yet). So maybe I'm a weirdo or something but to me, when I size up people who arm themselves with a gun and go confront others, I judge (ha!) them to be intending/contemplating shooting others.
I'd expect to be arrested if I walked up and down the sidewalk where I live, strapped, agressively interrogating passersby. I'd also expect there's a fair chance that before I'm arrested, somebody's gonna try to kick my ass. And I'd have a tough time saying with a straight face that shooting that person is justified because I was just defending myself.
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So, I've got a confession. When I posted this...
looks like GZ almost died :sdeek:
reminds me of the time trim ran into that sign
I shot up the eff out of that sign once my head stopped ringing.
... I was lying. Joshing, if you will. I didn't shoot that sign. I didn't even have my gun there. I pretty much never have my gun. The only times I take it out of its spot in my room are when I need to go to the shooting range and make sure I still know how to use it, and to shoot someone (hasn't happened yet). So maybe I'm a weirdo or something but to me, when I size up people who arm themselves with a gun and go confront others, I judge (ha!) them to be intending/contemplating shooting others.
I'd expect to be arrested if I walked up and down the sidewalk where I live, strapped, agressively interrogating passersby. I'd also expect there's a fair chance that before I'm arrested, somebody's gonna try to kick my ass. And I'd have a tough time saying with a straight face that shooting that person is justified because I was just defending myself.
:lol:
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Yes, GZ was engaged in lawful activity, and he had a right to be there. I don't believe this is in dispute, from a legal standpoint.
It's undisputed that what Zimmerman did up until Martin stopped him was lawful?
Youre asking the wrong question. The state will ultimately have the burden of proof. So the question is: Is there a shred of evidence, beyond sheer speculation, that GZ was doing something unlawful? I'm not aware of any. Approaching him wasn't unlawful. Approaching while carrying a concealed weapon was not unlawful. Approaching while carrying a concealed weapon and asking "what are you doing here" was not unlawful. I dont believe theres any evidence of who started the fight.
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Yes, GZ was engaged in lawful activity, and he had a right to be there. I don't believe this is in dispute, from a legal standpoint.
It's undisputed that what Zimmerman did up until Martin stopped him was lawful?
Youre asking the wrong question. The state will ultimately have the burden of proof. So the question is: Is there a shred of evidence, beyond sheer speculation, that GZ was doing something unlawful? I'm not aware of any. Approaching him wasn't unlawful. Approaching while carrying a concealed weapon was not unlawful. Approaching while carrying a concealed weapon and asking "what are you doing here" was not unlawful. I dont believe theres any evidence of who started the fight.
You gonna be in town on the 3rd or 4th?
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And I'm aware that the State's Attorney's Office in Florida won't win this case. I'd win it.
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And I'm aware that the State's Attorney's Office in Florida won't win this case. I'd win it.
I don't think the state should win based on the evidence and burden of proof, but the jury is always the wild card. Women are typically more pro prosecution. I'm curious how they got down to an all female jury. I'm guessing the state used all its preemptive challenges to exclude the white men, and the defense did the same for the black men.
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SYG is not an issue in this case.
Spoken like a non-lawyer
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These threads really have a way of solidifying aspersions I have cast.
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I frankly hate the criminal justice system but I have no idea what the answer is. If I lived in Sanford, if they could look past the whole black male thing, hahaha, I am definitely smart enough to get on that jury and there is literally nothing I would hear that would make me vote not-guilty. I think Zimmerman is a dangerous sociopath who has hurt people before and he will hurt again, prisons are filled with people more redeeming and congenial than George Zimmerman. In the same light there are hundreds or thousands, if not millions of people like KSUW that would gladly serve on that jury and acquit Zimmerman for ridding the nation of thugs the likes of Trayvon Martin.
If there is literally nothing that could get you to vote not - guilty, then your opinion is pretty similar to ksuw, who would probably never vote guilty no matter the evidence. It's kind of disturbing to me that someone as intelligent as you would take this stance.
Pretty sure I was clear when I typed that, I said my stance was similar to KSUW, it didn't need to be restated. I didn‘t state it to curry favor, just being honest with how I feel. I doubt you spend too much time disturbed about the thousands of either innocent or unjustly sentenced men and women in jail, save your disappointment and finger wagging for that George Zimmerman doesn't deserved to be pissed on if he was on fire.
Also I didn't think this needed to be made clear, but I guess on message boards the obvious needs to be stated over and over again. The phrase "literally nothing" that you isolated does have important context that you chose to ignore. We know that Martin was an unarmed, law abiding 17 year old walking home at the time he was approached, followed, and subsequently confronted by an armed 200 lb man. This trial is about the semantics of the stand your ground law, we aren't going to find out that Martin had a weapon or that he was actually breaking into a house. Anyone who isn't sequestered and can read already knows exactly how they would rule right now and that isn't going to change. Wag your finger all you want, I'm being honest.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.
Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.
Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.
There were chowder burns on his clothes that indicated a gun shot from less than 12 inches away. That along with the witnesses collaborate GZ's story that he shot martin while being beat. It was an answer to ww's question.
Is there some evidence that I'm missing that puts GZ shooting martin while not in an altercation and faking his injuries after, as you have implied earlier?
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Ok so I haven't followed the case outside this thread, did tm deliver some swift blows and then get up to leave and got blasted? Or did he get shot while still wailing on him?
I'm sure Zimmerman will maintain it was while he was getting wailed on. Martin hasn't commented.
I believe there are witnesses and forensics to come that will support GZ on this.
Oh I see, you took exception to my previous post because you have gotten all of your info about the trial from this thread. There's jack crap for forensic evidence because the Sanford PD didn't feel like doing their rough ridin' job.
There were chowder burns on his clothes that indicated a gun shot from less than 12 inches away. That along with the witnesses collaborate GZ's story that he shot martin while being beat. It was an answer to ww's question.
Is there some evidence that I'm missing that puts GZ shooting martin while not in an altercation and faking his injuries after, as you have implied earlier?
Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot. Weren't you wagging your finger at me because I admitted that my preconceived notions won't be wavered? Work on being a better juror.
Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.
Please post where I implied Zimmerman faked his injuries. Context seems to be an issue for you.
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On the first part, you're right, that's why witnesses are important as well, but you decided to ignore that part.
On the second part, I'm not searching for it because it was pages ago (Friday afternoon I believe) and I'm on my phone, but you said something similar to "if TM even caused GZ's injuries". Only way I take that is a) someone else was there that night, b) GZ already had those injuries, c) he self inflicted/faked them. I have read some theories on the self inflicted part, but they don't seem all that credible.
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Which is why he walked up and asked "what are you doing here?" I still don't see what's so unreasonable about that, and even if it were, how it would justify getting attacked (if that's what happened). Again, the last we know is that Zimmerman asked a question and the phone hit the ground. What is the evidence that Zimmerman initiated the physical contact?
So you're certain that (because the only other true witness is dead) George Zimmerman must be telling the truth about this?
No, this is what "Dee Dee" says she heard. She is pro-Martin, so why would she lie about that?
Hey fuckface, stop acting like that was their only interaction before Zimmerman got his ass kicked. That's the only sentence we know for a 100% fact that Zimmerman said in the altercation. It doesn't mean that that was the only thing said. We don't even know as fact that all of Zimmerman's injuries were caused by Martin.
Here it is. Rereading, you are right on that point.
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LOL @ GZ trying to go all tough guy and starting a fight with a high schooler and then ending up getting his ass beat by that high schooler who was merely trying to defend himself from a psycho with a gun who was stalking him. Seems like the world's biggest pud. Sorry.
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
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MIR has got to be the most racist poster at goE
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Since vigilante justice is seemingly okay, hopefully after the trial someone "takes care" of GZ.
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You could just follow him around asking him what he is doing until he took a swing, then judge him.
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You could just follow him around asking him what he is doing until he took a swing, then judge him.
"I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you, I'm not doing anything"
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.
I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.
Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?
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You gonna be in town on the 3rd or 4th?
So, no?
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.
I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.
Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?
Its certainly possible that GZ brandished his weapon or did any number of other things - I liked your hypo where he called him a n* even better - there's just no evidence that it happened.
And if GZ brandished his gun before the confrontation, wouldn't that make TM even dumber for attacking him? Oh wait, under your theory, GZ first called the police, then decided "ok, so now that the police are on their way, lets go get this n*." He walks (I mean, stalks) up to TM and says real quiet like (so Dee Dee wouldn't hear) "I don't like you, n*!" Then he says in a louder voice "what are you doing here?" He then immediately jumps TM who was distracted because he was trying to eat his skittles while taking a sip of his iced tea. Is that how it happened? Feel free to elaborate. The possibilities are endless!
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He clearly didn't say "The police are on their way and can handle it"
Also, lol @ MiR getting on the jury. No way a black man makes it on that jury
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KSU, are you Mexican, why do you care about GZ or this trial so much? You seem racist.
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.
I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.
Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?
Its certainly possible that GZ brandished his weapon or did any number of other things - I liked your hypo where he called him a n* even better - there's just no evidence that it happened.
Yeah, because some psycho killed the only other witness.
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Yes, the OJ and Casey Anthony trials both went the way I would have voted.
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
The whole situation would have been avoided if Zimmerman had just stayed in his vehicle and waited for the police to arrive. You seem to be making the case that Zimmerman was in the right when he chose to chase down Martin and escalate the situation. That wreckless decision lead to an unarmed civilian getting killed, and I don't know how any rational human being could conclude that that kind of irresponsible behavior is justified. You're jumping from point A to point C, and missing point B.
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MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.
To me, this is 50 percent possible. GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.
If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
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MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.
To me, this is 50 percent possible. GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.
If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
He was confronted by an armed adult male who had been following him. Pretty much a case study in self-defense there.
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MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.
To me, this is 50 percent possible. GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.
If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
He was confronted by an armed adult male who had been following him. Pretty much a case study in self-defense there.
You're not doing the math, KK. It's OK to have a gun. It's OK to real-life PI people to an extent. 1+1=2. Not guilty.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
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MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.
To me, this is 50 percent possible. GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.
If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
He was confronted by an armed adult male who had been following him. Pretty much a case study in self-defense there.
Yeah, because we would hear only his side of the story. He might decide not to include things like if GZ had stopped following him and instead was returning to his truck and TM decided to suckerpuch GZ. A case with the exact same evidence supports TM if he's alive and GZ is dead. There are too many unknowns, yet most of this board keeps giving their assumptions as fact.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
There are too many unknowns, yet most of this board keeps giving their assumptions as fact.
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Is the idea that Zimmerman shot Martin a fact? Is it a fact that if Zimmerman had minded his own business, he wouldn't have had any reason to shoot Martin?
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Fact 1: Martin was walking home to his dad's house with a bag of skittles and an iced tea
Fact 2: Zimmerman killed Martin before he was able to get home
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Fact 1: Martin was walking home to his dad's house with a bag of skittles and an iced tea
Fact 2: Zimmerman killed Martin before he was able to get home
Weren't you the guy earlier scolding someone for going from a to c without looking at b?
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
There are too many unknowns, yet most of this board keeps giving their assumptions as fact.
Hmm, if only I had qualified that with some statement as possibly happened instead of fact.
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Fact 1: Martin was walking home to his dad's house with a bag of skittles and an iced tea
Fact 2: Zimmerman killed Martin before he was able to get home
Weren't you the guy earlier scolding someone for going from a to c without looking at b?
You're jumping from point A to point C, and missing point B.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
There are too many unknowns, yet most of this board keeps giving their assumptions as fact.
Hmm, if only I had qualified that with some statement as possibly happened instead of fact.
I read it to mean there was a chance that he didn't mean to fire a lethal round and a fact that he wouldn't have shot him again if it hadn't been lethal. I do feel better about you if you didn't mean the second part of it as fact.
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It was all one train of thought, I don't always communicate the best.
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It was all one train of thought, I don't always communicate the best.
I start sentences with "like"
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
Well then. How magnanimous that would've been of GZ. (If he hadn't shot and killed TM IRL, that is.)
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i think i'm going to get a gun and creepily follow people, that i don't know, around at night all stalker like chasing them down the street and through yards of houses and then shoot them if any of them get freaked out and throw a punch or try to push me or something. go cats. ftb. 'merica.
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oh my god lol. so there was this lady walking her dog (yorky?) outside of my house. i grabbed my gun and went outside and started walking after her with it. she was like "oh my god. no. no." and then she started running and she let the leash go and so i just kind of started running after her and then the dog was all freaking out and stuff and kind of jumped up on me so i shot the dog and then the lady freaked out more but then she fell and i ran up on her and she tried to kick me with her feet cause she was on the ground and she actually did land a kick so i shot her. she's dead now. i mean wtf was she doing all trying to kick me. pretty mumped up if you ask me. anyway lol.
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i think i'm going to get a gun and creepily follow people, that i don't know, around at night all stalker like chasing them down the street and through yards of houses and then shoot them if any of them get freaked out and throw a punch or try to push me or something. go cats. ftb. 'merica.
That's fine, I'll physically assault people who are wondering what i'm doing. Probably bash their head into the concrete.
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i think i'm going to get a gun and creepily follow people, that i don't know, around at night all stalker like chasing them down the street and through yards of houses and then shoot them if any of them get freaked out and throw a punch or try to push me or something. go cats. ftb. 'merica.
That's fine, I'll physically assault people who are wondering what i'm doing. Probably bash their head into the concrete.
Better hope you're not bringing fists to a gunfight
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i think i'm going to get a gun and creepily follow people, that i don't know, around at night all stalker like chasing them down the street and through yards of houses and then shoot them if any of them get freaked out and throw a punch or try to push me or something. go cats. ftb. 'merica.
That's fine, I'll physically assault people who are wondering what i'm doing. Probably bash their head into the concrete.
better hope it's not me with my gun aggressively stalking you for no reason, because if it is then i will shoot you and kill you.
i mean this is the usa and if i want to follow you with a gun for no reason at all then you sure as crap better not run away from me or try to fight back or something. seriously. i mean i'm dead serious here. if i have a gun and you don't know me and i'm chasing you with my gun, then i expect you to immediately stop what you are doing, calmly stand still and then calmly answer all of my questions about you and your life and what the eff you are doing just walking around until i decide you can leave. if you don't, i'll shoot you dead. just saying. i will shoot you and you will die. america. go cats. ftb.
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oh my god. another lady walking past my house. this time no dog. this lady has on jogging shorts and it looks like she is sweating. it's only 77 degrees out, why is she sweating? drugs?
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oh my god. another lady walking past my house. this time no dog. this lady has on jogging shorts and it looks like she is sweating. it's only 77 degrees out, why is she sweating? drugs?
Your neighborhood's really gone to hell.
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oh my god. another lady walking past my house. this time no dog. this lady has on jogging shorts and it looks like she is sweating. it's only 77 degrees out, why is she sweating? drugs?
These assholes, they always get away.
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My Winchester agrees with Rick Daris. #WINCHESTER, #merica, YOLO, & go cats.
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alright that's it. she just walked past again but this time she's walking the other way. why can't she make up her mind where she wants to go? drugs? casing the neighborhood to steal stuff and buy more drugs? that's it though, i'm getting my gun and am going to chase after her with my gun and demand to know why she walked past my house one way and then just walked past it again the other way.
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god rough ridin' damnit. she saw me coming with my gun and started running and was just honestly too fast and i couldn't catch her. almost like she was a rough ridin' god damn runner or athlete or something and of course i had my gun so i couldn't run as fast as i normally would/could. note to self-get holster for gun to run faster when chasing people with it.
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Well, it's clearly not safe for me to walk home from the bars anymore now that Rick Daris is playing neighborhood police. I better start driving.
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Well, it's clearly not safe for me to walk home from the bars anymore now that Rick Daris is playing neighborhood police. I better start driving.
Are you not good at fighting and/or disarming people? Or how 'bout you just answer Daris' questions if he comes upon you?
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you guys, another incident just happened and this one a complete wtf one. just incredible.
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so i'm sitting on my front porch just now cleaning my gun and honestly just kind of half pissed that the stupid $!#* in the shorts was able to outrun me when this rough ridin' guy comes walking down my street along with a woman. but this was just off and not right because the chick was hot. like super big tits and a really fuckable ass with legs that just wouldn't stop but the guy looked like a total dufus non athlete nerd to me.
like wtf were they doing together something is just not right. so i grabbed the gun and started chasing them yelling "hey why the eff are you two together and stop right rough ridin' now and tell me why you are holding hands and walking down my street". well for no reason they freak out and the guy is all "honey run away" and then he tries to be all big boy and get in between me, my gun and her and i'm like "dude get the eff out of the way i need to ask this woman some questions" and he gets all super weirded out by this (drugs?) and tries to push me to get away while she starts to run off so i obviously shot him and killed him. total wtf what was he even doing though? the girl, don't know where she ended up. so bizzaro though you guys.
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old guy (80? 85?). didn't run and didn't fight back. rough ridin' finally. looked startled though (hearing loss?). mumbled something about his grandkids and the fourth of july. i just trailed him with my gun about ten-fifteen feet behind him for two blocks until he walked into a house that had a bunch of cars parked outside and looked like maybe a party (drugs?) in the back yard or something.
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:drink:
Fact 1: Martin was walking home to his dad's house with a bag of skittles and an iced tea
Fact 2: Zimmerman killed Martin before he was able to get home
Weren't you the guy earlier scolding someone for going from a to c without looking at b?
:lol: He didnt just skip B. More like B C D E F G and possibly H. Beems is a harmless idiot. I'd swear he's somebody's sock, but he isn't.
And in response to Beems earlier question, simply approaching somebody ansking what theyre doing there (if that's what happened) in no way justifies being attacked (if that's what happened) or undercuts GZs theory of self defense.
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another male. 35-40. from my yard i told him to stop right there because i had some questions for him about what he was doing and just life in general. then showed him my gun. he looked like he was either going to run or fight me so i just cut out the middle man and shot him and killed him. starting to get pretty good at reading these people. go cats.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
If Zimmerman didn't want Martin to die, don't you think he probably would have called 911 back and told them to send an ambulance? Maybe they could have given him instructions to keep Martin breathing until help arrived. Zimmerman just stood there and watched a kid die that he shot, though.
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another male. 35-40. from my yard i told him to stop right there because i had some questions for him about what he was doing and just life in general. then showed him my gun. he looked like he was either going to run or fight me so i just cut out the middle man and shot him and killed him. starting to get pretty good at reading these people. go cats.
He saw your gun. He could have taken it from you and killed you. At that point it was him or you, and you made damn sure it wasn't going to be you. Good job.
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If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
nobody punches anyone with the intent to kill them. everyone who shoots someone in the chest intends to kill them. your logical leaps are astounding.
I think it's possible that the shot wasn't intended to be lethal, and had it hit his shoulder or arm, GZ wouldn't have shot him again.
If Zimmerman didn't want Martin to die, don't you think he probably would have called 911 back and told them to send an ambulance? Maybe they could have given him instructions to keep Martin breathing until help arrived. Zimmerman just stood there and watched a kid die that he shot, though.
I can't speak to the mental process of someone who was just being attacked and shot another person. He did yell at a neighbor to call 911, but yeah your scenario would have been better.
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jfc. just went to mcdonalds and the guy in front of me supersizes but then just orders a water instead of a soft drink or tea or something. i obviously call him out on it and he's like myob and i'm like check out my rough ridin' gun and you will stand there and answer my rough ridin' questions. well guess what this dumbfuck does? he tries to grab the gun and i wrestle it back then he kind of tackles me but i'm already falling back because of the action that i had to take when i grabbed the gun back. anyway, this guy lands kind of on me and my head hits the ground but his momentum takes him over me and kind of into the trashcans. i jump up and shoot him and kill him. supersize that dumbass.
also my head motherfucking hurts because of when i hit the ground so now i have to go to target and get some advil or whatever. rough ridin' a. fml.
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Just being attacked
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just shot another person in mtc. i didn't want to but he tried to fight back when i accosted him with my gun after following him through four stores (gap, subway, jc penny and the arcade place- don't know the name) and feel really bad and hope he lives. texted a friend to call 911 for him and i'm going to go home and reheat a hamburger that i made thursday. also, will this make me sick or is this ok. seriously?
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friend not texting back. does this mean that he got my text and called 911 or does it mean that he didn't and do i need to text someone else? also, hamburger thing?
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Thank god for you And your gun, Rick. THESE people always used to get away.
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friend not texting back. does this mean that he got my text and called 911 or does it mean that he didn't and do i need to text someone else? also, hamburger thing?
You've sure got a lot of questions, rick daris.
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In Seattle, the vigilante ex-mma neighborhood(s) patrol guys go as full-blown superheroes.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phoenix_Jones
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ok, jfc. i just posted on facebook for someone to call 911 for that guy because i hope he doesn't die and i want him to be ok and my friend who always responds quickly just isn't responding. weird thing is that i called 911 from my cellphone that i had on me to report this guy when i was tailing him at subway (spicy italian) but now i'm just having other people call it in. i have 145 friends, tho.
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Thank God for Daris. If we had more people like him in the world, we wouldn't have so much violence. After all, the only way to stop a bad guy with skittles and ice tea is a good guy with a gun.
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i like the way seven is handling himself in this thread. hey, seven, i'd have voted acquit on oj too, but i didn't pay any attention to the anthony case.
also, rdaris is very funny.
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friend not texting back. does this mean that he got my text and called 911 or does it mean that he didn't and do i need to text someone else? also, hamburger thing?
You've sure got a lot of questions, rick daris.
I noticed that too, Trim. (drugs?)
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Rick. I know that you shared this on facebook about your brother who is a cop in White Plains, NY. This story is extremely disturbing. Pussification of America and Obama's terrorist union thugs calling off the dogs. Can't say I'm surprised. Keep the streets safe rick. We need more oath takers like you! !!
http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581 (http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581)
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Rick. I know that you shared this on facebook about your brother who is a cop in White Plains, NY. This story is extremely disturbing. Pussification of America and Obama's terrorist union thugs calling off the dogs. Can't say I'm surprised. Keep the streets safe rick. We need more oath takers like you! !!
http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581 (http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581)
I did not know that about Sri Lanka.
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Rick. I know that you shared this on facebook about your brother who is a cop in White Plains, NY. This story is extremely disturbing. Pussification of America and Obama's terrorist union thugs calling off the dogs. Can't say I'm surprised. Keep the streets safe rick. We need more oath takers like you! !!
http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581 (http://gawker.com/golf-club-calls-police-on-terrorist-diplomat-breast-629652581)
I did not know that about Sri Lanka.
This is a great opportunity for me to mention that I taught English to a guy that had previously served as a navy swift boat commander in the Sri Lankan army. Boy did he not like Tamils. Sorry M.I.A.!
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State started this morning with an FBI voice analyst. Says recording of a neighbor's 911 phone call not sufficient to ID who was screaming. Says that people (like family members) more familiar with the voices of TM and GZ are in a better position to ID screams, but that also introduces an element of bias. Looks the whole purpose of this testimony is for the state to lay foundation to ultimately put on TM's mom to identify the screaming as that of her son. Really not sure that's going to help, especially since TM's dad first told police the screaming wasn't his son, and GZ's parents say it's him screaming.
State next puts on officer who interviewed GZ the night of the shooting. Plays parts of the recorded interview, and defense will undoubtedly play the rest on cross. The state's aim is to highlight that Martin is racist in the way he talks about "those guys" and "them" and had a motive because he expresses frustration that they always get away (same as in 911 call, I think). I get what the state is doing, but I think it's probably going to backfire on them. Playing GZ's interview essentially allows him to testify and tell his story to the jury without ever taking the stand and submitting himself to cross.
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The state's aim is to highlight that Martin is racist in the way he talks about "those guys" and "them" and had a motive because he expresses frustration that they always get away (same as in 911 call, I think).
Sounds pretty rough ridin' racist to me.
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Just a question because i don't know all the back ground, but could 'those guys' and 'them' just mean the burglars (of any race) that had been in the neighborhood?
Did GZ have a racial descriptions of the prior burglars?
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Just a question because i don't know all the back ground, but could 'those guys' and 'them' just mean the burglars (of any race) that had been in the neighborhood?
Definitely could but definitely doesn't in GZ's hateful heart. :blindfold:
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Just because Martin was shot at close range does not mean he was beating Zimmerman while being shot.
TM was found face down with a bullet wound that entered his chest from the front. So unless GZ repositioned TM's body after shooting him (and diabolical criminal mastermind that he is, this would probably be the time he faked his own injuries, too), it is highly unlikely that GZ shot TM while TM was already pinned beneath him.
The wound and orientation of TM's body make it much more likely that he was shot in an upright position and fell forward, which is consistent with Good's testimony of TM straddling GZ, which is consistent with GZ's injuries and grass on his back.
Also I'd be interested to see how someone who was actively being mounted and hopelessly beaten had the ability to pull, aim, & fire a gun without the person doing the mounting reacting at all. Seems pretty impractical that Zimmerman was getting beaten while he pulled the gun and shot.
I'm going to assume that it is outside of the realm of possibility for you to consider that Zimmerman may have pulled his piece first to scare or intimidate Martin, Trayvon fought instead of ran & then Zimmerman "had" to shoot in the ensuing struggle/fight.
Because your stance is consistent & so unwavering I'm sure you were also satisfied with the Casey Anthony & OJ verdicts too, right?
Its certainly possible that GZ brandished his weapon or did any number of other things - I liked your hypo where he called him a n* even better - there's just no evidence that it happened.
And if GZ brandished his gun before the confrontation, wouldn't that make TM even dumber for attacking him? Oh wait, under your theory, GZ first called the police, then decided "ok, so now that the police are on their way, lets go get this n*." He walks (I mean, stalks) up to TM and says real quiet like (so Dee Dee wouldn't hear) "I don't like you, n*!" Then he says in a louder voice "what are you doing here?" He then immediately jumps TM who was distracted because he was trying to eat his skittles while taking a sip of his iced tea. Is that how it happened? Feel free to elaborate. The possibilities are endless!
I haven't proposed a theory, I've made it clear that any theory as to what happened is irrelevant because only two people knows what happened and one of those people killed the other. These conversations don't work if you can't read and comprehend.
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Just a question because i don't know all the back ground, but could 'those guys' and 'them' just mean the burglars (of any race) that had been in the neighborhood?
Did GZ have a racial descriptions of the prior burglars?
Why would GZ think Trayvon was a burglar?
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Fact 1: Martin was walking home to his dad's house with a bag of skittles and an iced tea
Fact 2: Zimmerman killed Martin before he was able to get home
Weren't you the guy earlier scolding someone for going from a to c without looking at b?
You're jumping from point A to point C, and missing point B.
Point B was when Zimmerman decided to get out of his car and confront Martin. Point C was when the situation escalated and Martin got shot.
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MIR, I'm going to assume it is outside the realm of possibility for you to consider that GZ disengaged from TM and lost sight of him, at which time TM decided to re-engage the situation and elevated it to a physical altercation.
To me, this is 50 percent possible. GZ hunting down and grabbing or threatening TM is also 50 percent possible. Unless more evidence comes out, I don't see how anyone can convict this guy.
If TM had killed GZ with one punch (freak things happen) would any of you automatically discount his side of the story? Would any of you say he has to be guilty because the only other witness is dead? This is essentially what most of this board is doing.
Yes, it is outside of the realm of possibility for me to think your first scenario happened because if it did Zimmerman would have proposed that it did.
I have addressed your second scenario no fewer than a half dozen times already. If Zimmermann chased Martin and Trayvon hit and killed Zimmerman with the one hitter quitter, I would absolutely believe Martin's story because of the 911 call. Zimmerman caused his own ass beating by chasing a strange 17 year old at night.
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Yes, the OJ and Casey Anthony trials both went the way I would have voted.
There is a reason I mentioned that to KSUW and not you, he's a hypocritical dumbass. The causative link between the three cases is horrendous police work.
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
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"You got me" :dubious:
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Did GZ have a racial descriptions of the prior burglars?
Yes, he had the racial description of a couple of buglars. Do you think this changes the night in any way?
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
yeah so the neighborhood watch captain didn't know what street he was on in this ginormous neighborhood.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftransferstation.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F03%2Fstreet-view-overhead1.jpg&hash=4974c3409d69ffa158937fa242b8f43806be06be)
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Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Pffft, yeah right :lol:
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"You got me" :dubious:
Just cements what a horrible lie that whole story is
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
yeah so the neighborhood watch captain didn't know what street he was on in this ginormous neighborhood.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ftransferstation.files.wordpress.com%2F2012%2F03%2Fstreet-view-overhead1.jpg&hash=4974c3409d69ffa158937fa242b8f43806be06be)
Apparently he ran into a sidewalk area with no street looking for a street sign, as well.
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so GZ hopped out, left the street he was on, began walking through the grassy alleyway behind the houses looking for a street sign?
I think whoever wrote GZ's version of events also writes for The Following. :facepalm:
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Holy crap!
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That story is so unbelievably bad that it would be funny if not for the whole dead kid thing.
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Yes, the OJ and Casey Anthony trials both went the way I would have voted.
There is a reason I mentioned that to KSUW and not you, he's a hypocritical dumbass. The causative link between the three cases is horrendous police work.
What on earth are you talking about?
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
I 100% believe Zimmerman said those things to the cop.
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Street signs can pop up our of nowhere.
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Team Zimmerman is really hoping for a not guilty verdict, you guys!
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Yeah. It's still weird to me that there are George Zimmerman apologists.
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Holy crap!
Yikes. Looks like GZ was justified. I'm switching sides.
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
I 100% believe Zimmerman said those things to the cop.
Yeah. Love how everyone on GZ's side automatically takes that as being a depiction of what actually happened.
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Well, it's clearly not safe for me to walk home from the bars anymore now that Rick Daris is playing neighborhood police. I better start driving.
Are you not good at fighting and/or disarming people? Or how 'bout you just answer Daris' questions if he comes upon you?
My mentor taught me to follow these rules: "One, never underestimate your opponent. Expect the unexpected. Two, take it outside. Never start anything inside unless it's absolutely necessary. And three, be nice."
Looking back, firearms probably fall under the umbrella of rule number two, but I don't encounter many of those in Aggieville or on the mean sidewalks of MHK.
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Dummy lawyer doing the questioning right now keeps using the word "evidence" as a verb when he means "evince." :flush:
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Did GZ have a racial descriptions of the prior burglars?
Yes, he had the racial description of a couple of buglars. Do you think this changes the night in any way?
No, I don't think it changes the night at all. Just like I'm doubtful that if TM was white the events would have unfolded any differently. GZ was more of a gun nut with a power trip than a racist, imo. But he was probably both to the extent he was probably more likely to conclude a black kid was a burglar as opposed to a white kid.
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Haven't been following the trial all that closely...did Zimm ever identify himself as a neighborhood watch guy or did he just try to stalk TM in silence?
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Haven't been following the trial all that closely...did Zimm ever identify himself as a neighborhood watch guy or did he just try to stalk TM in silence?
According to Zimmerman, he did not. That is, unless he wants to change the story he told the police officer.
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Dummy lawyer doing the questioning right now keeps using the word "evidence" as a verb when he means "evince." :flush:
Pro tip: evidence can be used as a verb, and often is in the legal profession.
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god rough ridin' damnit. she saw me coming with my gun and started running and was just honestly too fast and i couldn't catch her. almost like she was a rough ridin' god damn runner or athlete or something and of course i had my gun so i couldn't run as fast as i normally would/could. note to self-get holster for gun to run faster when chasing people with it.
I don't understand why you don't get in your pickup to do this tailing of these perps?
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I've got a little more confidence that the State can get this now that I'm seeing Zimmerman's police interviews being played in court. Also clears up why the Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund Team was trying to suppress them. I'd figured they'd want Zimmerman's tale told as often as possible.
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god rough ridin' damnit. she saw me coming with my gun and started running and was just honestly too fast and i couldn't catch her. almost like she was a rough ridin' god damn runner or athlete or something and of course i had my gun so i couldn't run as fast as i normally would/could. note to self-get holster for gun to run faster when chasing people with it.
I don't understand why you don't get in your pickup to do this tailing of these perps?
This allows for you to get out of the truck to look for street signs in your neighborhood. I often forget the streets a few blocks from my house and find that getting out of my vehicle helps me find the identities of those streets easier/quicker.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fe%2Fec%2FSurviving_the_Game_DVD_cover.jpg&hash=e8cdff64913f586cf3d8f596998bc92390485a4d)
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fe%2Fec%2FSurviving_the_Game_DVD_cover.jpg&hash=e8cdff64913f586cf3d8f596998bc92390485a4d)
The pinnacle of Ice T's career, imo
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Dummy lawyer doing the questioning right now keeps using the word "evidence" as a verb when he means "evince." :flush:
Pro tip: evidence can be used as a verb, and often is in the legal profession.
Evince is obviously the better choice, though. :users: But whatevs. I don't care that much about this one.
What did you guys think of the cop on the stand today?
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Dummy lawyer doing the questioning right now keeps using the word "evidence" as a verb when he means "evince." :flush:
Pro tip: evidence can be used as a verb, and often is in the legal profession.
Evince is obviously the better choice, though. :users: But whatevs. I don't care that much about this one.
What did you guys think of the cop on the stand today?
The one right now? I love him.
http://www.redding.com/news/2013/jul/01/live-streaming-video-fbi-audio-expert-testifies-zi/
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Not sure if I could stay awake sitting in a courtroom for 8-10 hours
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Not sure if I could stay awake sitting in a courtroom for 8-10 hours
Could you kill a man?
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Not sure if I could stay awake sitting in a courtroom for 8-10 hours
Could you kill a man?
I'm a lover, not a fighter.
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I've got a little more confidence that the State can get this now that I'm seeing Zimmerman's police interviews being played in court. Also clears up why the Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund Team was trying to suppress them. I'd figured they'd want Zimmerman's tale told as often as possible.
Huh. I get the exact opposite impression. Seems his story stayed remarkably consistent through 3-4 lengthy interviews, plus a video reenactment, all of which he performed voluntarily without request for legal counsel. If anything, I'm starting to better appreciate why the Sanford PD didn't charge him initially (that, and the lie detector test he supposedly passed).
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
I 100% believe Zimmerman said those things to the cop.
Yeah. Love how everyone on GZ's side automatically takes that as being a depiction of what actually happened.
I posted without comment and for informational purposes only. Not on either side until all the info comes out.
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really not sure what to believe. what zimmerman says he did means little to me, he could absolutely be lying and fabricating how it all went down. "beyond a reasonable doubt" however seems pretty out of the question at this point though.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fe%2Fec%2FSurviving_the_Game_DVD_cover.jpg&hash=e8cdff64913f586cf3d8f596998bc92390485a4d)
The pinnacle of Ice T's career, imo
and the lowlight of Rutger Hauer's
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Huh. I get the exact opposite impression. Seems his story stayed remarkably consistent through 3-4 lengthy interviews, plus a video reenactment, all of which he performed voluntarily without request for legal counsel. If anything, I'm starting to better appreciate why the Sanford PD didn't charge him initially (that, and the lie detector test he supposedly passed).
:lol:
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really not sure what to believe. what zimmerman says he did means little to me, he could absolutely be lying and fabricating how it all went down. "beyond a reasonable doubt" however seems pretty out of the question at this point though.
I don't think it's reasonable to believe that Zimmerman's life was in danger. I also don't think Zimmerman did anything at all to try to keep Martin alive after he shot him, which is pretty awful, considering that Zimmerman wasn't even in danger of getting punched a few times at that point, and he was the party responsible for the death.
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I've got a little more confidence that the State can get this now that I'm seeing Zimmerman's police interviews being played in court. Also clears up why the Zimmerman Legal Defense Fund Team was trying to suppress them. I'd figured they'd want Zimmerman's tale told as often as possible.
Huh. I get the exact opposite impression. Seems his story stayed remarkably consistent through 3-4 lengthy interviews, plus a video reenactment, all of which he performed voluntarily without request for legal counsel. If anything, I'm starting to better appreciate why the Sanford PD didn't charge him initially (that, and the lie detector test he supposedly passed).
Well, I can see him making the statements now and, as jurors do, measure his credibility.
Same reason I want to PAK with you so I can see you say the things you post here and decide for myself if you're just rough ridin' with everyone here, actually believe it, or have some other motivation.
EDIT: That actually should say "... or actually believe it, and if so, what your motivation is."
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really not sure what to believe. what zimmerman says he did means little to me, he could absolutely be lying and fabricating how it all went down. "beyond a reasonable doubt" however seems pretty out of the question at this point though.
I don't think it's reasonable to believe that Zimmerman's life was in danger. I also don't think Zimmerman did anything at all to try to keep Martin alive after he shot him, which is pretty awful, considering that Zimmerman wasn't even in danger of getting punched a few times at that point, and he was the party responsible for the death.
he (at least acted like he) didn't know martin had died when they told him at the police station. he claims his head was being pounded against concrete. like i said, i'm not saying i believe him, but i just don't know that they can absolutely prove he is lying, which makes it so so unlikely imo that a jury would convict.
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Look at this guy!
[attachment deleted by admin]
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Did he tell the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign, or am I missing something? Weird for him to tell them to call back, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
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really not sure what to believe. what zimmerman says he did means little to me, he could absolutely be lying and fabricating how it all went down. "beyond a reasonable doubt" however seems pretty out of the question at this point though.
I don't think it's reasonable to believe that Zimmerman's life was in danger. I also don't think Zimmerman did anything at all to try to keep Martin alive after he shot him, which is pretty awful, considering that Zimmerman wasn't even in danger of getting punched a few times at that point, and he was the party responsible for the death.
he (at least acted like he) didn't know martin had died when they told him at the police station. he claims his head was being pounded against concrete. like i said, i'm not saying i believe him, but i just don't know that they can absolutely prove he is lying, which makes it so so unlikely imo that a jury would convict.
uh, TM admitted "you got me" after GZ shot him so I am pretty sure GZ knew it was a death shot.
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I don't fault him for getting a little suspicious of a guy that pops out from in between two houses, but to leave your truck and follow the guy that you told a 911 dispatcher was walking towards you and reaching into his waistband (as if he had a gun) is just the dumbest rough ridin' thing in the world. No one does that.
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I don't think it's reasonable to believe that Zimmerman's life was in danger. I also don't think Zimmerman did anything at all to try to keep Martin alive after he shot him, which is pretty awful, considering that Zimmerman wasn't even in danger of getting punched a few times at that point, and he was the party responsible for the death.
The question is whether Zimmerman, at the time he was getting beat up, reasonably believed that he might be killed or seriously injured if he didn't put a stop to it. Awful tough to say no, beyond a reasonable doubt, without being in that situation.
I don't have a problem with GZ not rendering first aid to the guy who just attacked him - GZ would probably not have knows how seriously injured TM was by the one gun shot.
The one part I have a problem with is GZ saying that he got on top of TM to restrain him after shooting him. If I was in that situation, I probably would have gotten the eff away from TM as soon as I was able. But not having been in that situation, I could be wrong. That's the problem - you just can't know until you're in that situation.
It's just like TM purportedly saying "you got me" after being shot. Is that really so hard to believe? How the eff do you know? I'd like to think I'd go all Rambo after getting shot, but more likely, I'd probably just be in shock and say something dumb like "you shot me."
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Did he tell the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign, or am I missing something? Weird for him to tell them to call back, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
I didn't hear that either. Maybe he was looking for the house number where his truck was parked.
I think he wanted the police to call him when they got there so he could tell them where to meet them. Seems to me they should have stayed on the phone with him and then told the cops where he was. It also sounded to me like he didn't have him in sight when he got off the phone with the 911 operator.
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thug means never having to say youre sorry, you guys. zim is a thug.
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I hope that if it becomes apparent that the State won't win, that this cop eats the defense attorney's face off.
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Here is today's testimony from the first officer on the scene:
Zimmerman told the police officer that he lost track of Martin and got out of his truck to look for a street name he could relay to police dispatcher. When the dispatcher suggested Zimmerman didn't need to follow Martin, Zimmerman started to head back to his vehicle. At that point, Zimmerman said Martin jumped out of some bushes, punched him and he fell to the ground.
Zimmerman said that Martin began hitting his head against the sidewalk as Zimmerman yelled for help and that Martin told him, "You're going to die tonight."
With Zimmerman's shirt and jacket pushed up during the struggle and his holstered gun now visible, he thought Martin was reaching for his firearm holstered around his waist. Zimmerman told the officer that he shot Martin and the teen said, "You got me."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_NEIGHBORHOOD_WATCH?SITE=CASTO&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT)
Did he tell the dispatcher he was looking for a street sign, or am I missing something? Weird for him to tell them to call back, too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw
I didn't hear that either. Maybe he was looking for the house number where his truck was parked.
Yeah, I guess. But he told the dispatcher he was just to the left of the clubhouse, which isn't very far from the clubhouse at all. It would have been impossible to not find him in his truck. I mean, there are literally THREE streets in the entire neighborhood.
http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/04/14/2748048/interactive-map-of-trayvon-martin.html
https://www.google.com/maps?q=1160+Twin+Trees,+Sanford,+FL+32771&ll=28.792842,-81.330146&spn=0.002247,0.004128&sll=28.79269860000001,-81.33008989329412&sspn=0.0023478394075824704,0.004857248486273643&t=h&dg=opt&hnear=1160+Twin+Trees,+Sanford,+Seminole,+Florida+32771&z=19
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GZ's video reenactnment: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c
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the cops said he is likely telling the truth. so looks like he is innocent after all.
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they said zimmerman had a wet back at the scene that night. no, they aren't being totally racist, he actually had a wet back which may indicate he was in fact on the bottom of the altercation.
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the cops said he is likely telling the truth. so looks like he is innocent after all.
Yep, at the end of that video, one cop asks another, "well, you got any questions?" and the other is like "Nope!" and that's that.
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i bet daris feels like a huge jerk after those posts he made yesterday.
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the cops said he is likely telling the truth. so looks like he is innocent after all.
Yep, at the end of that video, one cop asks another, "well, you got any questions?" and the other is like "Nope!" and that's that.
video?
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the cops said he is likely telling the truth. so looks like he is innocent after all.
Yep, at the end of that video, one cop asks another, "well, you got any questions?" and the other is like "Nope!" and that's that.
video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PX1sxARNq_c&feature=player_detailpage#t=724s
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they said zimmerman had a wet back at the scene that night. no, they aren't being totally racist, he actually had a wet back which may indicate he was in fact on the bottom of the altercation.
Could it have just been sweat? If I lived in Florida I would sweat my brains out all day every day.
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Believe it or not, there have been fights where someone was on top and then later, in that very same fight, they were on the bottom.
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Believe it or not, there have been fights where someone was on top and then later, in that very same fight, they were on the bottom.
You got any more questions? Me neither. Let's go home.
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Am I the only one who felt like he indicated his gun was on the ground when he was happened upon by the other person. Then it was holstered when police showed up shortly thereafter. All the while he was pinning TM down?
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
dude, if he doesn't get why the case is kind of a big deal then no amount of explaining is going to help.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
I hope not.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
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Seeing his description of what happened once George got out of his car and over to the sidewalk in Krusty's video makes me think George Zimmerman is a liar.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
Don't you dare try to take away my guns SD! :shakesfist: I NEED to protect myself! There could be unarmed strangers walkin' around in my neighborhood. If I don't have my gun, they could totally be up to no good and I couldn't be the vigilante the neighborhood needs, no, deserves! :batman:
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
I don't see that happening. The Rodney King riot was the result of built up frustration towards the police in LA where the acquittal of four jackass cops was the tipping point. Sanford, FL is not L.A.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
hopefully not is right, but i could definitely see this getting out of control if he walks out of that court room. id like to think weve come a long way since 1992 ... but have we? i was a young pup when rodney king was going on. maybe someone can make a better comparison.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
hopefully not is right, but i could definitely see this getting out of control if he walks out of that court room. id like to think weve come a long way since 1992 ... but have we? i was a young pup when rodney king was going on. maybe someone can make a better comparison.
Those riots in 1992 weren't really about the court case, though.
They said, it was for the black man
They said, it was for the Mexican and not for the white man
But if you look at the streets it wasn't about Rodney King
It's this mumped up situation and these mumped up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming "187" on a motherfucking cop
It's not written on the paper it's on the wall
National Guard smoke from all around
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Great post. But is it more about holes in self defense laws than just gun laws? What if GZ had killed TM in some other manner, but all other facts were the same? Pretty much the same issues, imo, although maybe it was the gun that emboldened GZ to get out of his vehicle which is a gun issue.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Great post. But is it more about holes in self defense laws than just gun laws? What if GZ had killed TM in some other manner, but all other facts were the same? Pretty much the same issues, imo, although maybe it was the gun that emboldened GZ to get out of his vehicle which is a gun issue.
GZ had a concealed carry permit while he was serving a restraining order. That's pretty messed up.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Great post. But is it more about holes in self defense laws than just gun laws? What if GZ had killed TM in some other manner, but all other facts were the same? Pretty much the same issues, imo, although maybe it was the gun that emboldened GZ to get out of his vehicle which is a gun issue.
GZ had a concealed carry permit while he was serving a restraining order. That's pretty messed up.
Good point. I knew that but forgot I guess. Definitely messed up gun law there.
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did not know he had a restraining order. should definitely not be able to have a cc with a restraining order, imo.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Great post. But is it more about holes in self defense laws than just gun laws? What if GZ had killed TM in some other manner, but all other facts were the same? Pretty much the same issues, imo, although maybe it was the gun that emboldened GZ to get out of his vehicle which is a gun issue.
GZ had a concealed carry permit while he was serving a restraining order. That's pretty messed up.
Good point. I knew that but forgot I guess. Definitely messed up gun law there.
SYG is equally messed up and makes powerless losers like this guy feel like emboldened vigilantes like this guy.
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I consider SYG a self defense law rather than specific to guns, but you're right and it's impact is about gun toting idiots. Will be interesting if a civil suit arises because, as i understand it, syg gives immunity from civil suits so it may become the spotlight issue.
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This was the detective's look when the defense attorney just now made the K-S-U-Wildcats! assertion that it's ok to follow and approach people, with no context.
[attachment deleted by admin]
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The defense attorney just tripped over all his stuff and was spinning around with his arms extended out. I can't rewind on this live feed to catch it.
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The defense attorney just tripped over all his stuff and was spinning around with his arms extended out. I can't rewind on this live feed to catch it.
gif will be on the internet soon. thats all we need.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
I know what happened. I just don't care.
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For the bazzilionth time, I can't believe the testimony that is coming out in the state's case.
According to the lead investigating officer, Serino:
1. There is not one piece of evidence that contradicts GZ's story. "No physical evidence, no witness evidence, no officer statements, nothing?" Serino: “No, sir.”
2. "Evidence you had all fit into self-defense theory, right?" Serino: "Yes."
3. What injuries need to sustained before self-defense can be justified: "In fact, we don't need to see life-threatening injuries, not any injuries, do we?" Serino: "No, sir."
4. Serino set up a "challenge interview" to try to pressure GZ into breaking down or changing his story. the problem for Serino was "I just didn’t have much to challenge him with.” So instead, Serino made something up. He told GZ they had recovered video of the fight. And what did GZ say? Serino: "I believe his words were, 'Thank God, I was hoping somebody would videotape it." "Either he was telling the truth or he was a complete pathological liar. One of the two." Q: "You think he was telling the truth?" Serino: "Yes." :flush:
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:lol:
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Wait... GZ started the fight and then murdered TM? Damn.
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Wait... GZ started the fight and then murdered TM? Damn.
Have you not been watching the trial?
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Wait... GZ started the fight and then murdered TM? Damn.
Have you not been watching the trial?
I thought I was, but I must be on the wrong channel. What channel are you on? In the one I was watching, the state just put the lead cop on who testified that he believed GZ. I know, crazy right?
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Wait... GZ started the fight and then murdered TM? Damn.
Have you not been watching the trial?
I thought I was, but I must be on the wrong channel. What channel are you on? In the one I was watching, the state just put the lead cop on who testified that he believed GZ. I know, crazy right?
Well, seeing as how GZ basically said he chased the kid down, then murdered him, I don't understand what you are trying to imply.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
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The prosecuting attorney looks like BTK
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Not guilty!
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What is the deal with this kid? People get murdered all the time, and often the killer gets away. Why the eff do people care so much?
When the killer gets away, you usually don't know who he is. This is news because a guy chased down an unarmed kid, started a fight, lost the fight, and then murdered the kid. The police found the murderer standing over the body and then didn't really do much investigative work and didn't even charge Zimmerman with manslaughter. Zimmerman will most likely not even serve jail time for this, and it is good that the case is drawing a bunch of attention because it really brings up some glaring problems with gun laws and self defense laws in America.
Wait... GZ started the fight and then murdered TM? Damn.
Have you not been watching the trial?
I thought I was, but I must be on the wrong channel. What channel are you on? In the one I was watching, the state just put the lead cop on who testified that he believed GZ. I know, crazy right?
Well, seeing as how GZ basically said he chased the kid down, then murdered him, I don't understand what you are trying to imply.
:lol:
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Seeing his description of what happened once George got out of his car and over to the sidewalk in Krusty's video makes me think George Zimmerman is a liar.
cops believed him! case closed.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
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I think they should sentence TM now.
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all cops are huge dumbasses and racists
fact
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
See, if that happened to my face, I would personally consider it great bodily harm. Again, however, the question is not whether GZ suffered great bodily harm, but whether he reasonably believed he would suffer great bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. How much worse would the injuries have gotten? Nobody can know that.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
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did i miss the post where MIR decided to quit boom-roasting bitches?
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
Well, K-S-U-Wildcats! just said that he thinks a bloody, unbroken nose constitutes great bodily harm that justifies lethal force, so anything is possible.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
Could have been while his head was being beat on the sidewalk. Can't say for sure though.
do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
GZ was/is a doughboy
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
Rumor has it that you can scream and then have someone attempt to suffocate you immediately after.
Just a rumor though. Can't confirm.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
Rumor has it that you can scream and then have someone attempt to suffocate you immediately after.
Just a rumor though. Can't confirm.
The screaming was right before the gunshot, though. It stopped right when the gun was fired.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
Rumor has it that you can scream and then have someone attempt to suffocate you immediately after.
Just a rumor though. Can't confirm.
The screaming was right before the gunshot, though. It stopped right when the gun was fired.
Could possibly have broken free from the suffocation for a moment. I will have my team of scientists look into this new scenario.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
No and maybe.
I just choose not to ignore certain things that are on the table just because they don't line up with reaching the conclusion I want to reach.
Also, "facts" was a bad word choice in my prev post.
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dont you guys like, work, or something?
Yeah, I'm not watching the trial. I just get updates on what is happening from this thread.
As an update, between GZ chasing down and killing TM, there is evidence that TM attacked GZ, beat him up, tried to suffocate him and said he (TM) was going to kill GZ. The jury will have to decide the credibility, but those facts are essential to any discussion of the many issues at hand.
Do those facts (if true) put GZ at great risk of death or serious bodily harm? Judging by his injuries, I just don't see how they do.
Suffocation = 0 bodily harm/death chance so yeah this checks out NK
How was GZ screaming for help if he was being suffocated?
Rumor has it that you can scream and then have someone attempt to suffocate you immediately after.
Just a rumor though. Can't confirm.
The screaming was right before the gunshot, though. It stopped right when the gun was fired.
Could possibly have broken free from the suffocation for a moment. I will have my team of scientists look into this new scenario.
That's not really how GZ described it, though.
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The 30 year old with the gun chasing the unarmed 16 year-old around a neighborhood at night felt like HIS life was in danger? Thats funny (not really cause he killed a kid who was probably already scared because he was being followed/chased by a guy WITH A GUN).
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
K-S-U Wildcats is just your typical teabagger. He gets all of his talking points from Drudge Report and Rush Limbaugh.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
No and maybe.
I just choose not to ignore certain things that are on the table just because they don't line up with reaching the conclusion I want to reach.
Also, "facts" was a bad word choice in my prev post.
I'm not ignoring anything. Let your common sense guide you.
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Seeing his description of what happened once George got out of his car and over to the sidewalk in Krusty's video makes me think George Zimmerman is a liar.
cops believed him! case closed.
let's get some lunch
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
hopefully not is right, but i could definitely see this getting out of control if he walks out of that court room. id like to think weve come a long way since 1992 ... but have we? i was a young pup when rodney king was going on. maybe someone can make a better comparison.
Those riots in 1992 weren't really about the court case, though.
They said, it was for the black man
They said, it was for the Mexican and not for the white man
But if you look at the streets it wasn't about Rodney King
It's this mumped up situation and these mumped up police
It's about coming up and staying on top
And screaming "187" on a motherfucking cop
It's not written on the paper it's on the wall
National Guard smoke from all around
You get that unimaginative corporate crap outta here.
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Just got a weird call from rd. My phone rang, I answered I heard a woman's voice say "why are you following me?" then rd said "what are you doing here?" rd then started screaming "help, I am being killed!" then I heard a gunshot.
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Whats Nancy Grace saying about all this? :opcat:
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did i miss the post where MIR decided to quit boom-roasting bitches?
Did I miss MiR boom-roasting anyone?
I know I didn't miss KSC being the least contributing poster in this thread.
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question: if zimmerman walks, do you think something along the lines of the rodney king riots could happen?
hopefully not. I do hope that it draws more attention to the stupid gun laws of this country though.
hopefully not is right, but i could definitely see this getting out of control if he walks out of that court room. id like to think weve come a long way since 1992 ... but have we? i was a young pup when rodney king was going on. maybe someone can make a better comparison.
To the OP: if Zimmerman walks, yes, I will riot.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
I bet 16 year old me could have whooped GZ's ass :dunno:
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So hold on, you're automatically racist in this case if you believe Zimmerman? :frown:
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So hold on, you're automatically racist in this case if you believe Zimmerman? :frown:
you are a welcome addition to this thread friend
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So hold on, you're automatically racist in this case if you believe Zimmerman? :frown:
No, gullibility doesn't necessarily equal racism.
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I do believe Zimmerman is a rough ridin' Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!), however. He should be pinned up for that alone. Stay in your rough ridin' car, dumbass or drive away and who gives a eff if anything happens? :dunno: Not your problem, you're not the cops.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
I bet 16 year old me could have whooped GZ's ass :dunno:
He would have shot you dead.
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As lawyers (Trim, Limestone, etc.) do you automatically think everyone is full of crap? By instinct?
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
I bet 16 year old me could have whooped GZ's ass :dunno:
He would have shot you dead.
it's kind of sucky that the only teenagers that would have survived that confrontation are the biggest puds
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As lawyers (Trim, Limestone, etc.) do you automatically think everyone is full of crap? By instinct?
I'm no attorney, but your bullshit detector should probably be going off on any story from someone who shoots and kills an unarmed teenager with no apparent history of violence. Especially when the shooter DOES have a history of violence. If it doesn't go off, then yeah, you're definitely racist.
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Good point.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
No and maybe.
I just choose not to ignore certain things that are on the table just because they don't line up with reaching the conclusion I want to reach.
Also, "facts" was a bad word choice in my prev post.
I'm not ignoring anything. Let your common sense guide you.
Isn't that the rub, though? My common sense guides me to what I think is the same conclusion as your's about what actually happened. However, my conclusion is based on a bunch of facts and suppositions that the jury doesn't have or, although a reasonable conclusion, still leaves room for reasonable doubt.
So we're left in a situation where the law requires GZ to be allowed to get away with something I think he should be punished for. How do we correct that? Should the jury ignore the reasonable doubt standard? Should there be a different standard in a self defense case where the evidence is lacking because the defendant killed a key witness? Should GZ not be allowed to claim self defense because his prior actions, although not necessarily unlawful, precipitated the entire event?
Also, guns are here to stay in the US, imo. Is there a way to keep them away from idiots like GZ? I don't think so (provided said idiot doesn't have a restraing order as GZ did). Plus the idiocy gets compounded by the fact that the idiot is emboldened by carrying the gun. No fix for that from what I can see.
TM shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to kwik shop in his dad's neighborhood, but should neighborhood watch be allowed to ask a stranger what he's doing in the neighborhood at night? If so, how far should the watchman be allowed to go before the stranger is allowed to protect himself from the watchman? I don't think TM should be allowed to attack him the second GZ got out of the truck, but there is a line somewhere. Does the watchman get any of considerations (obviously not all) that a cop gets in the situation?
Go cats.
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a lot of people seem to have a hard time discussing their feelings re. the situation v. their feelings re. the trial and legal process.
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I always did a minute or so during closing to explain to any dumbasses that slipped onto the jury what reasonable doubt is. Worked fine. All the bad guys went to prison.
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do some of you really think that that 16 year old was whipping GZ's ass that badly? are you dumb?
No and maybe.
I just choose not to ignore certain things that are on the table just because they don't line up with reaching the conclusion I want to reach.
Also, "facts" was a bad word choice in my prev post.
I'm not ignoring anything. Let your common sense guide you.
Isn't that the rub, though? My common sense guides me to what I think is the same conclusion as your's about what actually happened. However, my conclusion is based on a bunch of facts and suppositions that the jury doesn't have or, although a reasonable conclusion, still leaves room for reasonable doubt.
So we're left in a situation where the law requires GZ to be allowed to get away with something I think he should be punished for. How do we correct that? Should the jury ignore the reasonable doubt standard? Should there be a different standard in a self defense case where the evidence is lacking because the defendant killed a key witness? Should GZ not be allowed to claim self defense because his prior actions, although not necessarily unlawful, precipitated the entire event?
Also, guns are here to stay in the US, imo. Is there a way to keep them away from idiots like GZ? I don't think so (provided said idiot doesn't have a restraing order as GZ did). Plus the idiocy gets compounded by the fact that the idiot is emboldened by carrying the gun. No fix for that from what I can see.
TM shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to kwik shop in his dad's neighborhood, but should neighborhood watch be allowed to ask a stranger what he's doing in the neighborhood at night? If so, how far should the watchman be allowed to go before the stranger is allowed to protect himself from the watchman? I don't think TM should be allowed to attack him the second GZ got out of the truck, but there is a line somewhere. Does the watchman get any of considerations (obviously not all) that a cop gets in the situation?
Go cats.
If GZ walks, then we really need to look at what the standard for self defense is. Even if everything Zimmerman said were true, I don't really believe his life was in danger, and his injuries were not severe at all. His doctor said he didn't even have a broken nose. Getting punched once or twice and then being held on the ground (the injuries don't really support a ground and pound scenario at all) should not give you free license to take a life.
Ideally, GZ would have followed the rules of the neighborhood watch and not been toting a gun around while performing his watch role. Zimmerman absolutely has the right to walk around the neighborhood and ask questions. He just doesn't have the right to take a life when that questioning turns into a minor scuffle. If Martin attacked Zimmerman first, I would fully support him being charged with assault.
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a lot of people seem to have a hard time discussing their feelings re. the situation v. their feelings re. the trial and legal process.
Ouch, if you're talking about me.
NK, i don't think you are taking everything GZ said as true, but maybe the portions you are ignoring are not credible enough to introduce reasonable doubt.
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a lot of people seem to have a hard time discussing their feelings re. the situation v. their feelings re. the trial and legal process.
exactly
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TM shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to kwik shop in his dad's neighborhood, but should neighborhood watch be allowed to ask a stranger what he's doing in the neighborhood at night? If so, how far should the watchman be allowed to go before the stranger is allowed to protect himself from the watchman? I don't think TM should be allowed to attack him the second GZ got out of the truck, but there is a line somewhere. Does the watchman get any of considerations (obviously not all) that a cop gets in the situation?
The fact that GZ was neighborhood watch needs to be removed from the discussion IMO. TM didn't know he was neighborhood watch, he was just a guy (with a gun) stalking/chasing him through the neighborhood
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a lot of people seem to have a hard time discussing their feelings re. the situation v. their feelings re. the trial and legal process.
Ouch, if you're talking about me.
NK, i don't think you are taking everything GZ said as true, but maybe the portions you are ignoring are not credible enough to introduce reasonable doubt.
I'm taking what GZ said as basically true, and just weeding out the bullshit that doesn't match the physical evidence.
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Zimmerman is walking and my prediction is that someone Kennedy assassin the killer of the killer.
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TM shouldn't have to be afraid to walk to kwik shop in his dad's neighborhood, but should neighborhood watch be allowed to ask a stranger what he's doing in the neighborhood at night? If so, how far should the watchman be allowed to go before the stranger is allowed to protect himself from the watchman? I don't think TM should be allowed to attack him the second GZ got out of the truck, but there is a line somewhere. Does the watchman get any of considerations (obviously not all) that a cop gets in the situation?
The fact that GZ was neighborhood watch needs to be removed from the discussion IMO. TM didn't know he was neighborhood watch, he was just a guy (with a gun) stalking/chasing him through the neighborhood
wtf are you talking about?
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someone Kennedy assassin the killer of the killer.
I'm just not sure what you are trying to say here, fanning.
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Zimmerman is walking and my prediction is that someone Kennedy assassin the killer of the killer.
It'd be something else if somebody kills Zimmerman Zimmerman-style.
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Zimmerman is walking and my prediction is that someone Kennedy assassin the killer of the killer.
congrats, fanning, you've topped yourself.
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:peek:
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He means someone's going Jack Ruby on GZ.
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He means someone's going Jack Ruby on GZ.
Street justice yo.
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This is awful. They tried to do a remote Skype and everyone kept calling the dude and it kept interrupting the call. :facepalm:
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He means someone's going Jack Ruby on GZ.
there is an internet rumor that TM's dad was a crip in his younger days
Street justice yo.
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This is awful. They tried to do a remote Skype and everyone kept calling the dude and it kept interrupting the call. :facepalm:
Hahaha, what?
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This is awful. They tried to do a remote Skype and everyone kept calling the dude and it kept interrupting the call. :facepalm:
Hahaha, what?
They had one of Zimmermans professors testify over Skype. His Skype was hooked up to his phone and all his dumbass friends tried to call him once they saw him on TV and it kept breaking up the feed. It was hysterical.
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http://deadspin.com/george-zimmerman-trial-interrupted-by-trolls-who-use-sk-658025291 (http://deadspin.com/george-zimmerman-trial-interrupted-by-trolls-who-use-sk-658025291)
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:lol:
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:lol:
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:lol:
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What's a mixture of :lol: and :flush: ?
That's how I feel.
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love how the professor was just cheesing the whole time. bizarre situation, because murder trial.
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CAN WE GET A DIFFERENT LAND LINE?!
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that was great
i love that the judge(?) or whoever the woman was had no basic understanding of skype. :lol:
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I always did a minute or so during closing to explain to any dumbasses that slipped onto the jury what reasonable doubt is. Worked fine. All the bad guys went to prison.
wouldn't work with me. i would doubt everything said, and would have good reason to do so.
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I always did a minute or so during closing to explain to any dumbasses that slipped onto the jury what reasonable doubt is. Worked fine. All the bad guys went to prison.
wouldn't work with me. i would doubt everything said, and would have good reason to do so.
You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
Or dumbasses.
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
How would that dialogue go?
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
Or dumbasses.
Don't lawyers specifically look for dumbasses jurors?
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
Or dumbasses.
Don't lawyers specifically look for dumbasses jurors?
I would. I didn't say exclude them.
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
How would that dialogue go?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.deafpunter.net%2Femaw%2Fmcat.jpg&hash=a973435569797195ca954741f67d92a45d046633)
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
How would that dialogue go?
No words; I profile them. I'm an excellent judge of character.
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You're not a dumbass that would slip onto a jury.
lawyers should ask all prospective jurors if they're contrarians.
Or dumbasses.
Don't lawyers specifically look for dumbasses jurors?
Obviously it depends on if you've got the good guys or not.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not sure you understand why this is actually not big news at all.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not sure you understand why this is actually not big news at all.
wut
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not big. Nothing really.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not big. Nothing really.
The only thing that was sort of surprising to me was that there was none of Martin's DNA on the murder weapon. I don't really know if that is normal or not, but I would think there would have been some blood on it seeing as how Zimmerman supposedly had the gun pressed against his body when he fired the shot. I already knew about there not being any of Zimmerman's DNA behind Martin's Fingernails, which doesn't really prove anything, but doesn't support Zimmerman's story about Martin using his hands to bash Zimmerman's head into the concrete.
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Waiting for the autopsy on TM that will show no blood, dirt, defensive wounds or offensive wounds on his knuckles, palms, wrists, fingers or thumbs, especially after GZ claimed TM hit him 25-30 times.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not big. Nothing really.
The only thing that was sort of surprising to me was that there was none of Martin's DNA on the murder weapon. I don't really know if that is normal or not, but I would think there would have been some blood on it seeing as how Zimmerman supposedly had the gun pressed against his body when he fired the shot. I already knew about there not being any of Zimmerman's DNA behind Martin's Fingernails, which doesn't really prove anything, but doesn't support Zimmerman's story about Martin using his hands to bash Zimmerman's head into the concrete.
I've watched/listened to quite a bit of the trial the last 3 days. Zimmerman didn't have any scratches from fingernails on him, just a lot of blunt force trauma. Most of the DNA had washed off the gun, probably because of the rain. There wasn't even any DNA on the trigger from either of them. The holster had DNA from Zimmerman and another unknown source (partial DNA), Martin not excluded IIRC.
Some of Zimmerman's blood was found on Martin's clothes.
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not big. Nothing really.
The only thing that was sort of surprising to me was that there was none of Martin's DNA on the murder weapon. I don't really know if that is normal or not, but I would think there would have been some blood on it seeing as how Zimmerman supposedly had the gun pressed against his body when he fired the shot. I already knew about there not being any of Zimmerman's DNA behind Martin's Fingernails, which doesn't really prove anything, but doesn't support Zimmerman's story about Martin using his hands to bash Zimmerman's head into the concrete.
I've watched/listened to quite a bit of the trial the last 3 days. Zimmerman didn't have any scratches from fingernails on him, just a lot of blunt force trauma. Most of the DNA had washed off the gun, probably because of the rain. There wasn't even any DNA on the trigger from either of them. The holster had DNA from Zimmerman and another unknown source (partial DNA), Martin not excluded IIRC.
Some of Zimmerman's blood was found on Martin's clothes.
Zimm will walk, and this will be a big reason why
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Some big news today from the Zimmerman trial:
1. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found under Martin's fingernails.
2. None of Martin's DNA was found on the murder weapon.
3. None of Zimmerman's DNA was found on Martin's sweatshirt.
Not big. Nothing really.
The only thing that was sort of surprising to me was that there was none of Martin's DNA on the murder weapon. I don't really know if that is normal or not, but I would think there would have been some blood on it seeing as how Zimmerman supposedly had the gun pressed against his body when he fired the shot. I already knew about there not being any of Zimmerman's DNA behind Martin's Fingernails, which doesn't really prove anything, but doesn't support Zimmerman's story about Martin using his hands to bash Zimmerman's head into the concrete.
I've watched/listened to quite a bit of the trial the last 3 days. Zimmerman didn't have any scratches from fingernails on him, just a lot of blunt force trauma. Most of the DNA had washed off the gun, probably because of the rain. There wasn't even any DNA on the trigger from either of them. The holster had DNA from Zimmerman and another unknown source (partial DNA), Martin not excluded IIRC.
Some of Zimmerman's blood was found on Martin's clothes.
Zimm will walk, and this will be a big reason why
It really shouldn't sway anyone's opinion. I mean, we have already seen the pictures of Zimmerman bleeding, and we know Zimmerman got on top of Martin after he shot him, or at least that is what Zimmerman said happened. Really, this DNA evidence could only potentially make Zimmerman look better, but the lack of DNA under Martin's fingernails just doesn't help him.
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just like to add in, after rolling around in the grass with the weight of another person on him, leveraging himself to get off the concrete, in the rain and mud and after getting hit "25 times" here's GZ's jacket.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag97%2FCCReport4%2FZimmermansbackjacket_zpsf6baa9be.jpg&hash=ce2e9dc32afc043ce58a838e7714b70b7b7c5f7b)
And pants
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1290.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb536%2FCCReport5%2Fzimmermanpantsbackside_zps23efa27d.jpg&hash=fa470e1408bb3afebcf471c3717889d4a3dd8983)
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Not sure why anyone would expect Martin to have Zimm's DNA under his fingernails. It sounds like all of the injuries would be from closed fists and grabbing clothes to lift and slam him down on the concrete. Blood from the broken nose would be going down his throat if he was on his back until he was upright.
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Not sure why anyone would expect Martin to have Zimm's DNA under his fingernails. It sounds like all of the injuries would be from closed fists and grabbing clothes to lift and slam him down on the concrete. Blood from the broken nose would be going down his throat if he was on his back until he was upright.
Zimmerman said Martin was holding his nose shut.
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Not sure why anyone would expect Martin to have Zimm's DNA under his fingernails. It sounds like all of the injuries would be from closed fists and grabbing clothes to lift and slam him down on the concrete. Blood from the broken nose would be going down his throat if he was on his back until he was upright.
Zimmerman said Martin was holding his nose shut.
Did he scratch him? I looked at some pictures but didn't see any.
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Not sure why anyone would expect Martin to have Zimm's DNA under his fingernails. It sounds like all of the injuries would be from closed fists and grabbing clothes to lift and slam him down on the concrete. Blood from the broken nose would be going down his throat if he was on his back until he was upright.
Zimmerman said Martin was holding his nose shut.
Did he scratch him? I looked at some pictures but didn't see any.
I don't know. Zimmerman had a shaved head, and somehow Martin was bashing his head into the cement while holding his bloody nose shut, so it seems somewhat likely that he would have some blood or dead skin or something under his fingernails.
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just like to add in, after rolling around in the grass with the weight of another person on him, leveraging himself to get off the concrete, in the rain and mud and after getting hit "25 times" here's GZ's jacket.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1300.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fag97%2FCCReport4%2FZimmermansbackjacket_zpsf6baa9be.jpg&hash=ce2e9dc32afc043ce58a838e7714b70b7b7c5f7b)
And pants
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi1290.photobucket.com%2Falbums%2Fb536%2FCCReport5%2Fzimmermanpantsbackside_zps23efa27d.jpg&hash=fa470e1408bb3afebcf471c3717889d4a3dd8983)
Rustoleum NeverWet!
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Are those 7's? I love those jeans.
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Just moved to a new neighborhood and there are lots of suspects out walking around. The 4th of July parade tomorrow will be a good place to sniff out some perps.
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If I ever end up living in Zimmerman's neighborhood, I plan on calling the non-emergency line and following him around the neighborhood until the cops show up every time he walks outside.
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Really weird watching all the GZ fans in this thread trying to do everything they can to explain why their boy George is somehow not a terrible human.
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I'm not a fan, I just think he'll walk.
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Really weird watching all the GZ fans in this thread trying to do everything they can to explain why their boy George is somehow not a terrible human.
His quality of character is low. However that is not what is on trial.
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I'm not a fan of GZ, I'm a fan of evidence and trials.
I think GZ put himself in a bad position and made poor decision going after TM, but the prosecution doesn't have a case for 2nd degree murder and should have gone for manslaughter at the most. I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
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I'm not a fan of GZ, I'm a fan of evidence and trials.
I think GZ put himself in a bad position and made poor decision going after TM, but the prosecution doesn't have a case for 2nd degree murder and should have gone for manslaughter at the most. I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
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I'm not a fan of GZ, I'm a fan of evidence and trials.
I think GZ put himself in a bad position and made poor decision going after TM, but the prosecution doesn't have a case for 2nd degree murder and should have gone for manslaughter at the most. I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
Dead on, which is shocking. Sharpton should take some of the blame if he walks
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
When both sides rest, the court determines - with argument from both sides - which lesser offenses the jury gets as options to select aside from what he's charged with or not guilty.
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
When both sides rest, the court determines - with argument from both sides - which lesser offenses the jury gets as options to select aside from what he's charged with or not guilty.
ok, good.
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Are those 7's? I love those jeans.
Those jeans look like he was the fattest, shortest man i've ever seen...not a good angle maybe
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
When both sides rest, the court determines - with argument from both sides - which lesser offenses the jury gets as options to select aside from what he's charged with or not guilty.
Didn't realize this, good.
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The arguments for manslaughter and murder2 are the same except for the deranged mind part of murder 2, something like that. I've read that in fl manslaughter is always included as an alternative in second degree murder cases because of that. Do not know if it's true.
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I've got no problem with GZ being on the neighborhood watch, and calling the police on TM given the rash of crime in the neighborhood. Again, this really comes down to people believing that GZ is a racist vigilante who (1) racially profiled TM, and (2) intentionally approached TM and instigated a fight. I see no convincing evidence of either.
And legally speaking, I agree he should walk based on lack of evidence but (FL) juries have done crazier things.
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I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
Can't help yourself, can you? Racist.
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I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
Can't help yourself, can you? Racist.
sad.
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I've got no problem with GZ being on the neighborhood watch
Do you have a problem with him being armed? You know, what with his prior convictions and restraining orders and whatnot.
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I've got no problem with GZ being on the neighborhood watch
Do you have a problem with him being armed? You know, what with his prior convictions and restraining orders and whatnot.
He had prior convictions? All I was aware of was this:
In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
When both sides rest, the court determines - with argument from both sides - which lesser offenses the jury gets as options to select aside from what he's charged with or not guilty.
and unfortunately a lot of prosecutors decide to charge the highest offense they can argue with a straight face and let the courts sort it out. stupid strategy imo.
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wait, they aren't also charging him with manslaughter or some lesser crime than murder? isn't that stupid?
When both sides rest, the court determines - with argument from both sides - which lesser offenses the jury gets as options to select aside from what he's charged with or not guilty.
and unfortunately a lot of prosecutors decide to charge the highest offense they can argue with a straight face and let the courts sort it out. stupid strategy imo.
Link?
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So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order.
also don't forget the one where he killed an unarmed kid.
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I think it's pretty hilarious how racist white people have rallied behind this hispanic man.
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I think it's pretty hilarious how racist white people have rallied behind this hispanic man.
the fact that a large percentage of their population are gun zealots may have something to do with it.
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I think they were forced into going for a murder charge by the over zealous media and race-baiters like Jackson-Sharpton-New Black Panthers-NBC. He's going to walk.
Can't help yourself, can you? Racist.
I was just getting ready to say that you can always look for non biased opinions when somebody cites Jackson, Sharpton, and the New Black Panthers as part of the problem.
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
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I think it's pretty hilarious how racist white people have rallied behind this hispanic man.
the fact that a large percentage of their population are gun zealots may have something to do with it.
i don't think any of them would be rallying around him if his name was manuel hernandez. george zimmerman however...
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Hey!!! I lived in Texas, Colorado, & garden city. I also worked at on the boarder and Carlos o kellys. I'm tight with with our friends down south. 'Merica!
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I also worked at on the boarder and Carlos o kellys.
amazing
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Hey!!! I lived in Texas, Colorado, & garden city. I also worked at on the boarder and Carlos o kellys. I'm tight with with our friends down south. 'Merica!
:thumbs: Highlight of my morning. Thanks buddy!
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I think it's pretty hilarious how racist white people have rallied behind this hispanic man.
the fact that a large percentage of their population are gun zealots may have something to do with it.
i don't think any of them would be rallying around him if his name was manuel hernandez. george zimmerman however...
If his name were hernandez, it would have been ignored by Sharpton and Jackson.
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I think it's pretty hilarious how racist white people have rallied behind this hispanic man.
the fact that a large percentage of their population are gun zealots may have something to do with it.
i don't think any of them would be rallying around him if his name was manuel hernandez. george zimmerman however...
If his name were hernandez, it would have been ignored by Sharpton and Jackson.
And the police would have arrested him. We've been through this already.
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I also worked at on the boarder and Carlos o kellys.
amazing
the true spelling and content combo-pack... this one's a keeper
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I honestly haven't seen a single quote from Sharpton or Jackson about this trial. Are they pretty involved, or something?
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This Chinese medical examiner autopsy guy is a super weirdo.
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
Especially considering the way that gun George Zimmerman fans are vilifying Trayvon for having smoked marijuana once in a while.
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GZ has a dope ass attorney.
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That knock knock joke was really something.
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
Especially considering the way that gun George Zimmerman fans are vilifying Trayvon for having smoked marijuana once in a while.
Was it the marijuana use, or was it more the pics on his phone holding a handgun (why?) or the gold teeth or the weird YouTube video of him participating in some sort of street fight club?
Also, restraining orders are pretty much entered based on any allegation, and there were restraining orders entered against both parties for whatever reason. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
Especially considering the way that gun George Zimmerman fans are vilifying Trayvon for having smoked marijuana once in a while.
Was it the marijuana use, or was it more the pics on his phone holding a handgun (why?) or the gold teeth or the weird YouTube video of him participating in some sort of street fight club?
According to all the dipshits calling into talk radio it was the marijuana. Also, bringing up the gold teeth makes you seem super racist, fwiw. What difference do gold teeth make? Answer: none. "And saggy pants! He sagged his pants too!!!"
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
Especially considering the way that gun George Zimmerman fans are vilifying Trayvon for having smoked marijuana once in a while.
Was it the marijuana use, or was it more the pics on his phone holding a handgun (why?) or the gold teeth or the weird YouTube video of him participating in some sort of street fight club?
Also, restraining orders are pretty much entered based on any allegation, and there were restraining orders entered against both parties for whatever reason. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.
Seriously? You are going to act like it is somehow a bad thing that Trayvon was holding a gun in a picture while you defend a guy who carries his gun around town and blasts kids?
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Also, restraining orders are pretty much entered based on any allegation, and there were restraining orders entered against both parties for whatever reason. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.
This one was because Zimmerman pushed his fiancee.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-21/news/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321_1_petitions-documents-injunctions
Which "street fight club" video are you talking about?
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In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.
In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So seven years prior, he shoved an officer during a bar dispute, it was minor enough that charges were waived, and he later had a mutual restraining order. Yeah, based on that, I've got no problem with him having a CCW and being armed.
The trivialization of domestic violence is sad, but not surprising.
Especially considering the way that gun George Zimmerman fans are vilifying Trayvon for having smoked marijuana once in a while.
Was it the marijuana use, or was it more the pics on his phone holding a handgun (why?) or the gold teeth or the weird YouTube video of him participating in some sort of street fight club?
Also, restraining orders are pretty much entered based on any allegation, and there were restraining orders entered against both parties for whatever reason. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.
Seriously? You are going to act like it is somehow a bad thing that Trayvon was holding a gun in a picture while you defend a guy who carries his gun around town and blasts kids?
I believe some have inferred that pics of just a hand holding a handgun (who do send that pic to?) smoking and growing pot, gold teeth, and posting videos of some sort of fight club might indicate that TM was less than a model citizen. Whatever, I think it's too much speculation personally, and would prefer to focus on the actually admissible evidence - for both sides.
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I believe some have inferred that pics of just a hand holding a handgun (who do send that pic to?) smoking and growing pot, gold teeth, and posting videos of some sort of fight club might indicate that TM was less than a model citizen. Whatever, I think it's too much speculation personally, and would prefer to focus on the actually admissible evidence - for both sides.
Yeah, like Zimmerman using his handgun to shoot an unarmed kid.
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I think what K-S-U-Wildcats! is trying to say is that
black people with gold teeth and a gun = scary, violent people
white people with a gun = good citizens who are only trying to protect themselves from black people with guns and gold teeth
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I believe some have inferred that pics of just a hand holding a handgun (who do send that pic to?) smoking and growing pot, gold teeth, and posting videos of some sort of fight club might indicate that TM was less than a model citizen. Whatever, I think it's too much speculation personally, and would prefer to focus on the actually admissible evidence - for both sides.
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Whoa, I didn't know Trayvon had gold teeth. I retract everything I said about this case. Kid had it comin'.
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Related but unrelated: some dumbass group in kcmo supposedly has successfully gotten something on the next election ballet that, if voted through, would make sagging a fineable misdemeanor offense in kcmo.
All this according to 980am last wk.
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Whoa, I didn't know Trayvon had gold teeth. I retract everything I said about this case. Kid had it comin'.
Probably stole the teeth too
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Also, restraining orders are pretty much entered based on any allegation, and there were restraining orders entered against both parties for whatever reason. Not sure if there's anything to that or not.
This one was because Zimmerman pushed his fiancee.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2012-03-21/news/os-george-zimmerman-domestic-violence-20120321_1_petitions-documents-injunctions
Which "street fight club" video are you talking about?
Rusty, bitches are crazy. They need to be shoved around every once in a while so they can get put in their place. Kind of like unwelcome visitors in the neighborhood.
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I honestly haven't seen a single quote from Sharpton or Jackson about this trial. Are they pretty involved, or something?
Nope. See, like a decade or so Rush told these morons that Al & Jesse were racists. So now his crowd use them as interference whenever racist crap is going on. Classic ploy of the I'm not racist, they are crowd, GPC posters are pros at this.
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Today was probably the best day of the trial so far, or at least up there with Dee Dee Day 1. State put the mom on, as expected, to identify TM as the one screaming. It was very important that she not actually say anything about TM's character, lest that open the door to defense introducing negative things, but I wonder if saying that TM "is in heaven" qualifies as an endorsement of character? Would be an interesting argument.
I also thought it was interesting that the mom used TMs full name early and often, Trayvon Benjamin Martin. I'm sure there was a reason for this, but it sounded a little odd at times.
On cross, defense started by trying to offer his condolences, to which state objected. Cross focused on bias and how can she really tell its TM screaming.
Next, the state put on the half brother to again identify the screams. I really think this was a bad decision because cross pointed out that the brother told media for several weeks after shooting that he couldnt tell who was screaming. I honestly think the state was putting on one more witness to run out the clock so defense couldn't start until next week. So much for that...
State rests, D argues motion for acquittal verdict, motion denied. All as expected. Disappointing that the judge provided absolutely no analysis for decision, especially when the evidence is as thin as it is here, but this laziness is also, unfortunately, par for the course.
So now its almost 5 pm. Quitting time, right? Nope, defense call your first witness! All of states careful planning out the window. So defense cleverly puts GZs mom on the stand to rebut TMs on the very same day. What follows is a direct/cross that's a bizarre mirror image of the Martin testimony. "That's my son!" "How do you really know?" "Ever heard him scream like that before?" Basically completely neutralizes martins testimony except for the empathy factor.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I would t be surprised either.
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you're really cheering for the defense huh. weird.
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Bitches with their feelings n crap, right K-S-U-Wildcats?
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the trial is one thing. the investigation. the outcry. what happened and how it is possibly legal. the fact that it CAN happen possibly legally. it really draws attention to what our prosthetic dick gun culture and laws have allowed. people who have no control or power in their lives suddenly have physical power with no effort or work and have a desire to use it to show that they are not losers.
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the trial is one thing. the investigation. the outcry. what happened and how it is possibly legal. the fact that it CAN happen possibly legally. it really draws attention to what our prosthetic dick gun culture and laws have allowed. people who have no control or power in their lives suddenly have physical power with no effort or work and have a desire to use it to show that they are not losers.
Yeah, incidents like this are exactly why I don't agree with concealed (or open) carry.
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the trial is one thing. the investigation. the outcry. what happened and how it is possibly legal. the fact that it CAN happen possibly legally. it really draws attention to what our prosthetic dick gun culture and laws have allowed. people who have no control or power in their lives suddenly have physical power with no effort or work and have a desire to use it to show that they are not losers.
Yeah, incidents like this are exactly why I don't agree with concealed (or open) carry.
Wow. One single incident emotionally colors your opinion? You sound like a woman.
Criminals are ALWAYS going to break the law. They will ALWAYS carry regardless if it is legal or not. Giving people a legal means of defending themselves is one of the best things this country has going for it.
We don't know any details of the GZ/Trayvon shooting. We just don't. Was it sad? Yes. But we can't afford to 'guess' as it affects us all via the case law it establishes.
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the trial is one thing. the investigation. the outcry. what happened and how it is possibly legal. the fact that it CAN happen possibly legally. it really draws attention to what our prosthetic dick gun culture and laws have allowed. people who have no control or power in their lives suddenly have physical power with no effort or work and have a desire to use it to show that they are not losers.
Yeah, incidents like this are exactly why I don't agree with concealed (or open) carry.
Wow. One single incident emotionally colors your opinion? You sound like a woman.
Criminals are ALWAYS going to break the law. They will ALWAYS carry regardless if it is legal or not. Giving people a legal means of defending themselves is one of the best things this country has going for it.
We don't know any details of the GZ/Trayvon shooting. We just don't. Was it sad? Yes. But we can't afford to 'guess' as it affects us all via the case law it establishes.
you sound like a woman
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If only cops had guns then the world would be bliss.
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Today was probably the best day of the trial so far, or at least up there with Dee Dee Day 1. State put the mom on, as expected, to identify TM as the one screaming. It was very important that she not actually say anything about TM's character, lest that open the door to defense introducing negative things, but I wonder if saying that TM "is in heaven" qualifies as an endorsement of character? Would be an interesting argument.
I also thought it was interesting that the mom used TMs full name early and often, Trayvon Benjamin Martin. I'm sure there was a reason for this, but it sounded a little odd at times.
On cross, defense started by trying to offer his condolences, to which state objected. Cross focused on bias and how can she really tell its TM screaming.
Next, the state put on the half brother to again identify the screams. I really think this was a bad decision because cross pointed out that the brother told media for several weeks after shooting that he couldnt tell who was screaming. I honestly think the state was putting on one more witness to run out the clock so defense couldn't start until next week. So much for that...
State rests, D argues motion for acquittal verdict, motion denied. All as expected. Disappointing that the judge provided absolutely no analysis for decision, especially when the evidence is as thin as it is here, but this laziness is also, unfortunately, par for the course.
So now its almost 5 pm. Quitting time, right? Nope, defense call your first witness! All of states careful planning out the window. So defense cleverly puts GZs mom on the stand to rebut TMs on the very same day. What follows is a direct/cross that's a bizarre mirror image of the Martin testimony. "That's my son!" "How do you really know?" "Ever heard him scream like that before?" Basically completely neutralizes martins testimony except for the empathy factor.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I would t be surprised either.
Did you seriously watch the trial today and think that was the most interesting stuff? I refuse to believe it. The State's medical examiner was the weirdest thing of the trial by far. You don't even mention him?
Also, the judge providing analysis for the decision to not grant a summary judgement? What in the world? Did you think she was going to go all Nancy Grace HLN style and break it down with four segments and commercial breaks?
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I believe some have inferred that pics of just a hand holding a handgun (who do send that pic to?) smoking and growing pot, gold teeth, and posting videos of some sort of fight club might indicate that TM was less than a model citizen. Whatever, I think it's too much speculation personally, and would prefer to focus on the actually admissible evidence - for both sides.
[/quote]
And GZ knew none of that when he saw Martin walking down the street with Skittles, but that's besides the point that it doesn't matter to this case.
I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
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I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
Not sure what is wrong with this?
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the trial is one thing. the investigation. the outcry. what happened and how it is possibly legal. the fact that it CAN happen possibly legally. it really draws attention to what our prosthetic dick gun culture and laws have allowed. people who have no control or power in their lives suddenly have physical power with no effort or work and have a desire to use it to show that they are not losers.
Yeah, incidents like this are exactly why I don't agree with concealed (or open) carry.
I honestly don't have a problem at all with open carry, as long as you aren't carrying on private property where the owner doesn't mind it. I just don't support concealed carry at all, though.
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I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
Not sure what is wrong with this?
Nothing. I was comparing it to KSUs comment about Martin posing with a gun and how that somehow makes him a bad citizen..
I don't think judging Trayvons citizenship is relevant to the case..
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I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
Not sure what is wrong with this?
Nothing. I was comparing it to KSUs comment about Martin posing with a gun and how that somehow makes him a bad citizen..
I don't think judging Trayvons citizenship is relevant to the case..
I don't think I ever said anything of the sort. In fact, I specifically said that this kind of stuff is irrelevant.
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you're really cheering for the defense huh. weird.
Nope. I do think the defense has the stronger case from a legal standpoint, but I just think this trial, with the witnesses, evidence, and strategies of the state and defense, is very interesting. The people who think I'm a racist just because I don't think GZ is necessarily a racist murderer based on the evidence presented, well :rolleyes:
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Did you seriously watch the trial today and think that was the most interesting stuff? I refuse to believe it. The State's medical examiner was the weirdest thing of the trial by far. You don't even mention him?
Also, the judge providing analysis for the decision to not grant a summary judgement? What in the world? Did you think she was going to go all Nancy Grace HLN style and break it down with four segments and commercial breaks?
I only saw part of Bao. What i saw was really boring, but I agree the dude was strange.
And re the judge, I would like at least a little analysis, with at least minimal reference to the evidence presented, but again, it was not a surprise.
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K-S-U-Wildcats! opted against PAK'n yesterday. Suspicious?
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I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
Not sure what is wrong with this?
Nothing. I was comparing it to KSUs comment about Martin posing with a gun and how that somehow makes him a bad citizen..
I don't think judging Trayvons citizenship is relevant to the case..
I don't think I ever said anything of the sort. In fact, I specifically said that this kind of stuff is irrelevant.
Uh no. You brought it up on the previous page to counteract the claims against GZ having a predisposition to violence which is relevant in this case.
You then backtracked a lil and used a Fox News tactic by saying "some have inferred".
I see right through it.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
Yeah, it was a weird trial.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
you think the prosecution won't try to drag TM's name through the mud more than they already have?
it just seems strange that his criminal/hothead history was never discussed.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
you think the prosecution won't try to drag TM's name through the mud more than they already have?
it just seems strange that his criminal/hothead history was never discussed.
wut? I don't think the defense will say anything about Trayvon's past and I don't think it has come up at trial. Not sure if the judge ruled about that or both just decided to not try and muddy up the case with endless character witnesses.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
you think the prosecution won't try to drag TM's name through the mud more than they already have?
it just seems strange that his criminal/hothead history was never discussed.
wut? I don't think the defense will say anything about Trayvon's past and I don't think it has come up at trial. Not sure if the judge ruled about that or both just decided to not try and muddy up the case with endless character witnesses.
Judge ruled it before the trial.
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If I remember right, Florida evidence law had some unique wrinkles (especially when the rough ridin' bar prep books one gets sometimes have a "not" missing from a sentence here and there and stuff like that), but yeah, generally you can only get in evidence of the defendant's past bad acts if they show a pattern or habit or things like that towards the specific crime and situation that's being charged. And the defendant has to be careful how much they get into character stuff on the victim because that can open up that door to get character assassinated themselves when otherwise it'd have been disallowed.
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With respect to martin I mean. Zimmerman is open season I believe.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
you think the prosecution won't try to drag TM's name through the mud more than they already have?
it just seems strange that his criminal/hothead history was never discussed.
wut? I don't think the defense will say anything about Trayvon's past and I don't think it has come up at trial. Not sure if the judge ruled about that or both just decided to not try and muddy up the case with endless character witnesses.
The defense released crap on their website that probably won't be admissable, such as a video from TM's of homeless men fighting. (the defense said it was TM's friends beating up a homeless guy and later apologized.)
I mistyped and should have said defense instead of prosecution. In a way, this as much about TM being on trial for attacking GZ unprovoked as anything, since that is really all that is on dispute. so things easily get jumbled.
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If I remember right, Florida evidence law had some unique wrinkles (especially when the rough ridin' bar prep books one gets sometimes have a "not" missing from a sentence here and there and stuff like that), but yeah, generally you can only get in evidence of the defendant's past bad acts if they show a pattern or habit or things like that towards the specific crime and situation that's being charged. And the defendant has to be careful how much they get into character stuff on the victim because that can open up that door to get character assassinated themselves when otherwise it'd have been disallowed.
So he would have to have a history if shooting people for character issues to be considered relevant? I guess he doesn't have that, so it would make more sense. He isn't on trial for being a hot-headed bad person.
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Did the prosecution ever discuss Zimmerman's past during the trial? It's like they weren't even trying.
May have been ruled out or they may have not wanted to bring up character because then it cuts both ways.
you think the prosecution won't try to drag TM's name through the mud more than they already have?
it just seems strange that his criminal/hothead history was never discussed.
wut? I don't think the defense will say anything about Trayvon's past and I don't think it has come up at trial. Not sure if the judge ruled about that or both just decided to not try and muddy up the case with endless character witnesses.
The defense released crap on their website that probably won't be admissable, such as a video from TM's of homeless men fighting. (the defense said it was TM's friends beating up a homeless guy and later apologized.)
I mistyped and should have said defense instead of prosecution. In a way, this as much about TM being on trial for attacking GZ unprovoked as anything, since that is really all that is on dispute. so things easily get jumbled.
Yeah, that isn't really relevant at all. I mean that may make them a-holes, but it has zero relevance to where we are now.
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Yeah, that isn't really relevant at all. I mean that may make them a-holes, but it has zero relevance to where we are now.
But it lets the prosecution know the defense will probably do whatever they can to make TM look bad, so you might as well try to make Zimmerman look like as big an bad person as possible.
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So he would have to have a history if shooting people for character issues to be considered relevant? I guess he doesn't have that, so it would make more sense. He isn't on trial for being a hot-headed bad person.
I don't know if it'd have to be full-on shooting somebody, but you get the idea. Here's the basics of Kansas' rules as an example. There's a number of other qualifiers, but this would give you the idea of what I'm talking about. And again, I think Florida's got some pretty big differences in their criminal evidence rules; I can't remember without digging out some books at home if this would be one of them.
(a) Subject to K.S.A. 60-447, and amendments thereto, evidence that a person committed a crime or civil wrong on a specified occasion, is inadmissible to prove such person's disposition to commit crime or civil wrong as the basis for an inference that the person committed another crime or civil wrong on another specified occasion.
(b) Subject to K.S.A. 60-445 and 60-448, and amendments thereto, such evidence is admissible when relevant to prove some other material fact including motive, opportunity, intent, preparation, plan, knowledge, identity or absence of mistake or accident.
(c) Subject to K.S.A. 60-445 and 60-448, and amendments thereto, in any criminal action other than a criminal action in which the defendant is accused of a sex offense under articles 34, 35 or 36 of chapter 21 of the Kansas Statutes Annotated, and amendments thereto, such evidence is admissible to show the modus operandi or general method used by a defendant to perpetrate similar but totally unrelated crimes when the method of committing the prior acts is so similar to that utilized in the current case before the court that it is reasonable to conclude the same individual committed both acts.
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I bet you don't have a problem with lil buckaroos in your podunk Kansas town posing with their rifles after hunter safety.
Not sure what is wrong with this?
Nothing. I was comparing it to KSUs comment about Martin posing with a gun and how that somehow makes him a bad citizen..
I don't think judging Trayvons citizenship is relevant to the case..
I don't think I ever said anything of the sort. In fact, I specifically said that this kind of stuff is irrelevant.
Uh no. You brought it up on the previous page to counteract the claims against GZ having a predisposition to violence which is relevant in this case.
You then backtracked a lil and used a Fox News tactic by saying "some have inferred".
I see right through it.
Uh oh, you saw right through my FOX NEWS TACTICS! :runaway:
Anyway, as others have already said, it ain't relevant or admissible for either side unless they open the door, and neither is likely to do that.
Also, I wasn't aware of the fighting homeless people video. Wtf? The thing I heard about was a video of TM "refereeing" a fight between two friends, which he then posted on his YouTube page. Golly, "some might infer" that TM was a big fan of fighting. (Now now, settle down...)
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It was a fight between 2 people. He wasn't refereeing. The defense literally released it to taint the pool. Dirt bags
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All physical acts, statements, interests, hobbies, blah blah blah speak to one's personality, their thought patterns, and therefore their possible actions, if nothing more than odds of them committing a certain act. I find it odd that such things are so heavily restricted in a court of law. As if knowingly admitting that the average juror is incredibly gullible and incapable of logic and reason. At that point, the whole system is worthless.
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All physical acts, statements, interests, hobbies, blah blah blah speak to one's personality, their thought patterns, and therefore their possible actions, if nothing more than odds of them committing a certain act. I find it odd that such things are so heavily restricted in a court of law. As if knowingly admitting that the average juror is incredibly gullible and incapable of logic and reason. At that point, the whole system is worthless.
You really want the jury to sit through 15 different people for each side saying each person is bad/good and citing this one time they saw him hold a door/not hold a door for a lady?
This would bog down the legal system wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder than it already is.
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It was a fight between 2 people. He wasn't refereeing. The defense literally released it to taint the pool. Dirt bags
They also released all the texts on TMs phone. Lots of texts about TM being involved in fights in the months leading up to the shooting, including street fights with "rounds." Miami Herald: Weed, Fights, and Guns - Trayvon Martin's Text Messages Released (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413343/).
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=28132.0 (http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=28132.0)
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
good post and good thread choice. speaks to rusty's point about how a police officer wouldn't have killed martin.
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Very informative article.
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
good post and good thread choice. speaks to rusty's point about how a police officer wouldn't have killed martin.
Too bad he lived in The Democratic People's Republic of California. Some other state would have allowed him to CCW.
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
good post and good thread choice. speaks to rusty's point about how a police officer wouldn't have killed martin.
Too bad he lived in The Democratic People's Republic of California. Some other state would have allowed him to CCW.
God, one loss to Oregon and you hate the entire west coast. Smh. (Dumbass.)
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Don't know where else to post this:
http://www.realfarmacy.com/man-shot-dead-by-police-while-watering-neighbors-lawn/#J6ZYAGfS58XdWz8k.01
good post and good thread choice. speaks to rusty's point about how a police officer wouldn't have killed martin.
Too bad he lived in The Democratic People's Republic of California. Some other state would have allowed him to CCW.
God, one loss to Oregon and you hate the entire west coast. Smh. (Dumbass.)
I have hated the west coast from the moment I lived in Portland bOregon. :thumbs:
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It was a fight between 2 people. He wasn't refereeing. The defense literally released it to taint the pool. Dirt bags
They also released all the texts on TMs phone. Lots of texts about TM being involved in fights in the months leading up to the shooting, including street fights with "rounds." Miami Herald: Weed, Fights, and Guns - Trayvon Martin's Text Messages Released (http://www.miamiherald.com/2013/05/23/3413343/).
GZ being a woman beater is more relevant
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Even for a bad cause, I'd like to think that an EMAW, especially a goEMAW'r, could've pitched in more than $10...
A $10.00 donation from Kansas City, MO
“Please use this money to help even the playing field.”
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/
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Even for a bad cause, I'd like to think that an EMAW, especially a goEMAW'r, could've pitched in more than $10...
A $10.00 donation from Kansas City, MO
“Please use this money to help even the playing field.”
http://www.gzdefensefund.com/donate/
K-S-U-Wildcats! has been identified.
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I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
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Its too bad the criminal justice system isn't based on evidence solely comprised of MIR and KSU hypos. Seems like a really fair and efficient way to adjudicate criminals.
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I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
Well he won't be sending any more texts now, amirite?
:woot:
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GZ slapping around a girl shows how he treats those smaller than him leading up to the night he shot TM
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:cheers:
I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
That has nothing to do with walking down the street with skittles and being followed by a grown adult with a gun.
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:cheers:I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
That has nothing to do with walking down the street with skittles and being followed by a grown adult with a gun.
Of course it doesn't. But it does speak to his mindset entering the altercation. It's hard to argue that there was any necessary (it can be argued he was within his rights) reason for GZ to initiate the encounter. Once the altercation began, we don't really know what happened, so we have to piece everything together.
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All physical acts, statements, interests, hobbies, blah blah blah speak to one's personality, their thought patterns, and therefore their possible actions, if nothing more than odds of them committing a certain act. I find it odd that such things are so heavily restricted in a court of law. As if knowingly admitting that the average juror is incredibly gullible and incapable of logic and reason. At that point, the whole system is worthless.
You really want the jury to sit through 15 different people for each side saying each person is bad/good and citing this one time they saw him hold a door/not hold a door for a lady?
This would bog down the legal system wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy harder than it already is.
You're taking it to the extreme to make your point, which is off base. Character witnesses are key pieces to the puzzle. All things have there limits obviously.
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:cheers:I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
That has nothing to do with walking down the street with skittles and being followed by a grown adult with a gun.
Of course it doesn't. But it does speak to his mindset entering the altercation.
Exactly. There's a lot of people on here who seem to believe that GZ lost any right to self defense if he chose to approach TM against the instructions of the dispatcher. That is silly. What matters is who started the physical fight. Though not essential to a claim of self defense, if TM attacked GZ, his claim is stronger, and and if GZ attacked TM, the claim is weaker. We'll never know for sure who started the fight (and that's part of the reason why he should be acquitted), but if we're going to speculate, that's where TM's and GZ's histories come into play.
In my opinion, TM more likely started the fight. First, GZ called the police and they were on their way, so why would GZ then jump TM? Second, TM was already on edge, telling Dee Dee that a "crazy ass cracker" was following him. Third, the last thing Dee Dee heard was GZ asking "what are you doing here?" Why would GZ ask a question and then immediately jump TM? Fourth, TM had a very recent history of getting into fights, plural.
I'm not saying GZ couldn't have started the fight - he could have been a hothead himself based on fights a number of years ago, and he did express frustration about "these assholes always get away..." - it just seems less likely to me.
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:cheers:I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
That has nothing to do with walking down the street with skittles and being followed by a grown adult with a gun.
Of course it doesn't. But it does speak to his mindset entering the altercation.
Exactly. There's a lot of people on here who seem to believe that GZ lost any right to self defense if he chose to approach TM against the instructions of the dispatcher. That is silly. What matters is who started the physical fight. Though not essential to a claim of self defense, if TM attacked GZ, his claim is stronger, and and if GZ attacked TM, the claim is weaker. We'll never know for sure who started the fight (and that's part of the reason why he should be acquitted), but if we're going to speculate, that's where TM's and GZ's histories come into play.
In my opinion, TM more likely started the fight. First, GZ called the police and they were on their way, so why would GZ then jump TM? Second, TM was already on edge, telling Dee Dee that a "crazy ass cracker" was following him. Third, the last thing Dee Dee heard was GZ asking "what are you doing here?" Why would GZ ask a question and then immediately jump TM? Fourth, TM had a very recent history of getting into fights, plural.
I'm not saying GZ couldn't have started the fight - he could have been a hothead himself based on fights a number of years ago, and he did express frustration about "these assholes always get away..." - it just seems less likely to me.
I don't think GZ ever had the right to defend himself with lethal force because he was never in danger of great bodily harm.
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I don't think GZ ever had the right to defend himself with lethal force because he was never in danger of great bodily harm.
:dunno:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1212576%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Farticle-trayvon-4-1203.jpg&hash=13092a2d9b7e6da01ccfc7a764f61f0be801f705)
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Remember after-school fights where the kids would stand off wanting the other to throw the first punch so that it'd be the other one getting in troubs? I guess that's the analysis going on here.
Zimmerman's gonna have to live in some sort of Bio-Dome when he gets off. Even then, I bet somebody will sneak in the hatch like Shore and Baldwin did and start asking Zim what he's doing in there and baiting him into a fight.
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16 year old punching me...OMG I'M GONNA DIE!
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if i murdered everyone who ever did that to me my soccer team wouldn't have anyone left to take corner kicks
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I don't think GZ ever had the right to defend himself with lethal force because he was never in danger of great bodily harm.
:dunno:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1212576%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Farticle-trayvon-4-1203.jpg&hash=13092a2d9b7e6da01ccfc7a764f61f0be801f705)
It looks like he lost less than 2 oz of blood and his doctor said his nose wasn't even broken. If that qualifies as "great bodily harm" then the standard for self defense is just way too low.
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GZ bit off more than he could chew, then when he realized he was in over his head he used his gun to kill. Granted, he was getting his ass kicked so he was technically defending himself, but is it self defense if you instigate the trouble?
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If Zimm didn't defend himself who knows how bad he would have gotten his ass kicked. Trayvon probably would have killed him with his bare hands
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I don't think GZ ever had the right to defend himself with lethal force because he was never in danger of great bodily harm.
And if the jury agrees there was no reasonable fear, beyond any reasonable doubt, he'll be convicted of manslaughter. But it is a lot easier to make such calls in hindsight as a passive observer, particularly if you've graduated from the school for internet tuff guys. And just out of curiosity, what gives you any certainty at all that TM would have stopped beating GZ before the injuries got much worse?
To determine reasonable fear, you must put yourself in GZ's shoes, pinned under an aggressor, taking hits to the head. If this jury does that, then coupled with the bloody photos, I see no chance of conviction.
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It looks like he lost less than 2 oz of blood and his doctor said his nose wasn't even broken. If that qualifies as "great bodily harm" then the standard for self defense is just way too low.
Again, you've missed the point. You do not have to suffer great bodily harm before you can use self defense. You simply need to have a reasonable fear that great bodily harm will occur if you don't use self defense.
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what's the murder rate in the area that GZ lived in?
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If Zimm didn't defend himself who knows how bad he would have gotten his ass kicked. Trayvon probably would have killed him with his bare hands
:lol:
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Next time I get in a fight I'm going to make sure I get knocked unconscious before I try to defend myself!!!
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Next time I get in a fight I'm going to make sure I get knocked unconscious before I try to defend myself!!!
:lol:
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
Murder
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
weed and maybe jaywalking?
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
Probably murder. I came to this conclusion based on my opinion
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
Probably murder. I came to this conclusion based on my opinion
omg I was making fun of you but I didn't need to :lol:
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Oh man :lol:
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
Probably murder. I came to this conclusion based on my opinion
omg I was making fun of you but I didn't need to :lol:
You guys are the dumbasses in this scenario
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:lol:
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:lol:
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Next time I get in a fight I'm going to make sure I get knocked unconscious before I try to defend myself!!!
What were the circumstances leading to the last fight you were in?
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What an amazing moment we all just shared. I mean, you pop into one of these threads just to see what's going on and then BAM like a fistful of weed to the nose!
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
No idea what he'd even be charged with. Might depend upon the extent of GZ's injuries. Why does it matter?
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If Trayvon were alive, what would he be convicted of?
No idea what he'd even be charged with. Might depend upon the extent of GZ's injuries. Why does it matter?
It's an interesting question that led to a hilarious moment.
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Next time I get in a fight I'm going to make sure I get knocked unconscious before I try to defend myself!!!
What were the circumstances leading to the last fight you were in?
Rick Daris jumped me when I was walking home from the bars. I did call him a "creepy ass cracker" so maybe it was justified
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
because it seems like trayvon might have pretty reasonably felt that his life was being threatened as well. too bad he only had his fists to punch the guy with and not a gun to shoot him and kill him. oh well live and learn.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
because it seems like trayvon might have pretty reasonably felt that his life was being threatened as well. too bad he only had his fists to punch the guy with and not a gun to shoot him and kill him. oh well live and learn.
I guess the moral of the story is to carry a gun at all times and when in doubt, always shoot to kill immediately.
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If someone is stalking you, don't defend yourself.
If you stalk someone, feel free to "defend" yourself when they notice and take issue with it.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
because it seems like trayvon might have pretty reasonably felt that his life was being threatened as well. too bad he only had his fists to punch the guy with and not a gun to shoot him and kill him. oh well live and learn.
Nope!
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If someone is stalking you, don't defend yourself.
If you stalk someone, feel free to "defend" yourself when they notice and take issue with it.
if a person you don't know is following you at night with a gun-do nothing. if someone punches you-shoot and kill them. all seems very resonable to me. :dunno:
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ERII, if somebody is following me would you say it's self defense if I just stop and shoot him right in the face? I mean, the odds are pretty good that he has a concealed carry permit, and he's obviously up to no good. If I don't shoot him, he might Zimmerman me.
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ERII, if somebody is following me would you say it's self defense if I just stop and shoot him right in the face? I mean, the odds are pretty good that he has a concealed carry permit, and he's obviously up to no good. If I don't shoot him, he might Zimmerman me.
obviously because you felt that your life was maybe in danger. you aren't allowed to punch him though.
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Zimmerman not physically opening his mouth while in court is so weird-looking.
Drugs?
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Zimmerman not physically opening his mouth while in court is so weird-looking.
Drugs?
Which is odd because his appearance gives off the impression that he is great at opening his mouth (for food).
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ERII, if somebody is following me would you say it's self defense if I just stop and shoot him right in the face? I mean, the odds are pretty good that he has a concealed carry permit, and he's obviously up to no good. If I don't shoot him, he might Zimmerman me.
obviously because you felt that your life was maybe in danger. you aren't allowed to punch him though.
OK, that's good to know. It doesn't matter if he actually has a gun, right? I mean, by the time I check for a weapon it would be too late. I like the idea of just blasting him in the face and then finding out how he was planning to murder me a whole lot more than finding out how he wants to kill me after it's already too late. It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm not going to get eaten by some crazed bad person like George Zimmerman.
Here's another question for those "in the know". Am I allowed to concealed carry like 10 guns at once, or is there some kind of limit?
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:cheers:I can't imagine the heartache TM's mom is going through. Not only did she lose her son, her son was only living with his dad that night because she had kicked him out of the house. Tragic.
Seriously though, these texts, while legally inadmissible, paint a very interesting picture of TM leading up the shooting.
That has nothing to do with walking down the street with skittles and being followed by a grown adult with a gun.
Of course it doesn't. But it does speak to his mindset entering the altercation.
Exactly. There's a lot of people on here who seem to believe that GZ lost any right to self defense if he chose to approach TM against the instructions of the dispatcher. That is silly. What matters is who started the physical fight. Though not essential to a claim of self defense, if TM attacked GZ, his claim is stronger, and and if GZ attacked TM, the claim is weaker. We'll never know for sure who started the fight (and that's part of the reason why he should be acquitted), but if we're going to speculate, that's where TM's and GZ's histories come into play.
In my opinion, TM more likely started the fight. First, GZ called the police and they were on their way, so why would GZ then jump TM? Second, TM was already on edge, telling Dee Dee that a "crazy ass cracker" was following him. Third, the last thing Dee Dee heard was GZ asking "what are you doing here?" Why would GZ ask a question and then immediately jump TM? Fourth, TM had a very recent history of getting into fights, plural.
I'm not saying GZ couldn't have started the fight - he could have been a hothead himself based on fights a number of years ago, and he did express frustration about "these assholes always get away..." - it just seems less likely to me.
Maybe he thought Martin was a girl, who could use a slapping.
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ERII, if somebody is following me would you say it's self defense if I just stop and shoot him right in the face? I mean, the odds are pretty good that he has a concealed carry permit, and he's obviously up to no good. If I don't shoot him, he might Zimmerman me.
obviously because you felt that your life was maybe in danger. you aren't allowed to punch him though.
OK, that's good to know. It doesn't matter if he actually has a gun, right? I mean, by the time I check for a weapon it would be too late. I like the idea of just blasting him in the face and then finding out how he was planning to murder me a whole lot more than finding out how he wants to kill me after it's already too late. It's a dog eat dog world, and I'm not going to get eaten by some crazed bad person like George Zimmerman.
Here's another question for those "in the know". Am I allowed to concealed carry like 10 guns at once, or is there some kind of limit?
wel i don't know about any of that. what i do know is that if a person, whom you don't know, is following you at night with a gun through side streets and back yards then you can't punch him or he has the right to shoot and kill you with it. that seems pretty black and white.
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The prosecution never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
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There was some kid watching me mow my lawn yesterday. Why would he do that? Drugs? Maybe he was casing the place. If he's out there the next time I'm mowing, I will probably just shoot him. Kids carry guns these days, and I just can't have some gang banger on my block bothering me.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
Right. Unless you think GZ was flashing his piece when he approached TM, walking up and asking "what are you doing here" would not reasonably provoke a fight, nor would it invoke a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.
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Some of you guys must have been super pud at 17.
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
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There was some kid watching me mow my lawn yesterday. Why would he do that? Drugs? Maybe he was casing the place. If he's out there the next time I'm mowing, I will probably just shoot him. Kids carry guns these days, and I just can't have some gang banger on my block bothering me.
I wouldn't advise just shooting him. You might walk up to him and ask "what are you doing here?" If, for some bizarre reason, the little psycho then jumps you, pins you to the ground, and starts hitting you in the face, you might consider shooting him, but only if you fear that you'll be seriously hurt if you don't stop him.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
Right. Unless you think GZ was flashing his piece when he approached TM, walking up and asking "what are you doing here" would not reasonably provoke a fight, nor would it invoke a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.
Why would he have to flash his piece? Isn't there something like a 50% chance that he's carrying a gun just based off of Florida demographics? The only mistake Trayvon made was not carrying his own gun so he could just blast Zimmerman in the face instead of punching him.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
Right. Unless you think GZ was flashing his piece when he approached TM, walking up and asking "what are you doing here" would not reasonably provoke a fight, nor would it invoke a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.
a person that i don't know stalking me at night through yards with a gun would make me think that i have more of a chance at dying then a sixteen year old punching me would.
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There was some kid watching me mow my lawn yesterday. Why would he do that? Drugs? Maybe he was casing the place. If he's out there the next time I'm mowing, I will probably just shoot him. Kids carry guns these days, and I just can't have some gang banger on my block bothering me.
I wouldn't advise just shooting him. You might walk up to him and ask "what are you doing here?" If, for some bizarre reason, the little psycho then jumps you, pins you to the ground, and starts hitting you in the face, you might consider shooting him, but only if you fear that you'll be seriously hurt if you don't stop him.
No offense, K-S-U-Wildcats!, but that strategy is just Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). How do I know the kid doesn't have a gun? It's better to just shoot him and then tell the cops he said he had a gun and was going to kill me.
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
:confused:
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There was some kid watching me mow my lawn yesterday. Why would he do that? Drugs? Maybe he was casing the place. If he's out there the next time I'm mowing, I will probably just shoot him. Kids carry guns these days, and I just can't have some gang banger on my block bothering me.
I wouldn't advise just shooting him. You might walk up to him and ask "what are you doing here?" If, for some bizarre reason, the little psycho then jumps you, pins you to the ground, and starts hitting you in the face, you might consider shooting him, but only if you fear that you'll be seriously hurt if you don't stop him.
No offense, K-S-U-Wildcats!, but that strategy is just Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). How do I know the kid doesn't have a gun? It's better to just shoot him and then tell the cops he said he had a gun and was going to kill me.
Damn... you thought of everything. Blast away.
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
:confused:
Don't make fun of the special needs kid. He was trying to make a serious point - he just got his mixed a little words up.
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so zimmerman could use his gun and kill someone because he felt his life was threatened because a sixteen year old was punching him, but trayvon couldn't use his bare fists to punch a guy that was following him for no reason at night with a gun?
Right. Unless you think GZ was flashing his piece when he approached TM, walking up and asking "what are you doing here" would not reasonably provoke a fight, nor would it invoke a reasonable fear of great bodily harm or death.
a person that i don't know stalking me at night through yards with a gun would make me think that i have more of a chance at dying then a sixteen year old punching me would.
oh my god. teenager just punch me i'm going to die!
oh hey. weird guy with gun is following me at night through yards of a neighborhood. oh hey what's up man? how's it hangin'?
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-16-year-old-dead-fight-girl-fart-article-1.1178127 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-16-year-old-dead-fight-girl-fart-article-1.1178127)
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oh my god. teenager just punch me i'm going to die!
oh hey. weird guy I have no idea has a with gun is following me at night through yards of a neighborhood. GZ: " what are you doing here?" TM: "I'm walking back to my house. What are you doing here?"oh hey what's up man? how's it hangin'?
Reads a little better this way, I think.
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-16-year-old-dead-fight-girl-fart-article-1.1178127 (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ohio-16-year-old-dead-fight-girl-fart-article-1.1178127)
Wow, that girl's parents are awful.
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oh my god. teenager just punch me i'm going to die!
oh hey. weird guy I have no idea has a with gun is following me at night through yards of a neighborhood. GZ: " what are you doing here?" TM: "I'm walking back to my house. What are you doing here?"oh hey what's up man? how's it hangin'?
Reads a little better this way, I think.
sure it does. it would also read better if you added a part about a unicorn flying out of the sky and dusting everyone with fairy dust just before a clown on a unicycle showed up with a birthday cake. i simply stuck to the absolute facts as we know them, though.
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
:confused:
they're acting on orders they were given.
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
:confused:
they're acting on orders they were given.
also it doesn't matter because he can still be convicted of manslaughter. we had a FL bar attorney in this very thread that went over it.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
I'm already butthurt that he got away with murder, the acquittal is a formality.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
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Can't wait for someone to administer some street justice to GZ. What goes around, comes around, ya know?
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
you have a very difficult time seperating the trial from the situation
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I think that had the case been handled well from jump, including the investigation and the eventual filing of charges, and on through the trial, a conviction on 2nd degree murder would have been very attainable and appropriate. With what's actually played out, I'll be surprised if he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder, but there's always a chance. Maybe they'll fly me in to give a kick-ass closing argument.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I think that had the case been handled well from jump, including the investigation and the eventual filing of charges, and on through the trial, a conviction on 2nd degree murder would have been very attainable and appropriate. With what's actually played out, I'll be surprised if he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder, but there's always a chance. Maybe they'll fly me in to give a kick-ass closing argument.
Which piece of evidence do you think they missed that may have been the deciding factor for the jury to convict on 2nd degree murder? (assuming they won't)
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The defense never should have tried this case as 2nd degree murder. They may have had a case with voluntary manslaughter, but I just don't think there's enough evidence against Zimmerman to convict him of murder at this point.
they didn't have a choice
:confused:
they're acting on orders they were given.
Woof. I meant to say "prosecution," not defense. I'm still recovering from 4th of July vacation week, apparently.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
wut
I never said I thought Zimmerman would be convicted. How dare you!
:shakesfist:
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I think that had the case been handled well from jump, including the investigation and the eventual filing of charges, and on through the trial, a conviction on 2nd degree murder would have been very attainable and appropriate. With what's actually played out, I'll be surprised if he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder, but there's always a chance. Maybe they'll fly me in to give a kick-ass closing argument.
Which piece of evidence do you think they missed that may have been the deciding factor for the jury to convict on 2nd degree murder? (assuming they won't)
Evidence to support a charge of assault for what Zimmerman did leading up to the altercation and him shooting Martin.
Total coincidence, I was just coming back here to post this: http://www.kansas.com/2013/07/08/2879835/two-arrested-after-threatening.html
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I fall into this category. There just isn't any way to justify the actions of George Zimmerman. He won't get convicted because he is in Florida, the victim is black, and the prosecution and police did a horrible job. As a juror, I would never vote in favor of somebody claiming self defense unless I thought there was a legitimate threat to that person's life.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I think that had the case been handled well from jump, including the investigation and the eventual filing of charges, and on through the trial, a conviction on 2nd degree murder would have been very attainable and appropriate. With what's actually played out, I'll be surprised if he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder, but there's always a chance. Maybe they'll fly me in to give a kick-ass closing argument.
Which piece of evidence do you think they missed that may have been the deciding factor for the jury to convict on 2nd degree murder? (assuming they won't)
Evidence to support a charge of assault for what Zimmerman did leading up to the altercation and him shooting Martin.
Total coincidence, I was just coming back here to post this: http://www.kansas.com/2013/07/08/2879835/two-arrested-after-threatening.html
I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
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I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
I think chasing Martin down constitutes a threat of some sort.
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Are you dumbasses going to be super butthurt when Zimm is acquitted of 2nd degree murder?
who are you directing that question to? I don't remember anyone outside of maybe beems saying they thought he would be convicted.
The majority of the posters in this thread. You all might not think he will get convicted but it's pretty obvious most think he should be convicted
I think that had the case been handled well from jump, including the investigation and the eventual filing of charges, and on through the trial, a conviction on 2nd degree murder would have been very attainable and appropriate. With what's actually played out, I'll be surprised if he gets convicted of 2nd degree murder, but there's always a chance. Maybe they'll fly me in to give a kick-ass closing argument.
Which piece of evidence do you think they missed that may have been the deciding factor for the jury to convict on 2nd degree murder? (assuming they won't)
Evidence to support a charge of assault for what Zimmerman did leading up to the altercation and him shooting Martin.
Total coincidence, I was just coming back here to post this: http://www.kansas.com/2013/07/08/2879835/two-arrested-after-threatening.html
I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
Right. I'm pretty sure they interviewed everyone in the neighborhood, looked for surveillance tape, etc. What else should the police have done to find more evidence that GZ initiated the fight? Or did they not interrogate GZ hard enough?
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The whole, "Martin is dead so Zimm must be lying" argument is pretty great
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smell test
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Zimm's trainer (and ground and pound expert) now testifying that Zimm was an unathletic, fat piece of crap
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The whole, "Martin is dead so Zimm must be lying" argument is pretty great
Let's say everything that Zimmerman said is true. It still does not qualify as self defense to me.
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http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=&URL=0700-0799/0784/Sections/0784.011.html
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The whole, "Martin is dead so Zimm must be lying" argument is pretty great
Let's say everything that Zimmerman said is true. It still does not qualify as self defense to me.
jfc :facepalm:
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The whole, "Martin is dead so Zimm must be lying" argument is pretty great
Let's say everything that Zimmerman said is true. It still does not qualify as self defense to me.
jfc :facepalm:
Just look at the facts.
Zimmerman assaults Martin (see Trim's post).
Martin retaliates with a punch to the nose.
Martin gets on top of Zimmerman, maybe punches him once, and covers his mouth to keep him from screaming for help.
The cops are already on their way and should be arriving any minute.
Zimmerman has a gun and can use it if he continues to get punched. He does not look like he was punched more than once or twice.
Multiple eyewitnesses are present to potentially break up the fight and have told Zimmerman that they are calling 911.
Zimmerman shoots Martin in the chest. Has very minor wounds consisting of a bloody nose (no break) and 4 or 5 tiny scratches on the back of his head.
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The whole, "Martin is dead so Zimm must be lying" argument is pretty great
Let's say everything that Zimmerman said is true. It still does not qualify as self defense to me.
jfc :facepalm:
Just look at the facts.
Zimmerman assaults Martin (see Trim's post).
Martin retaliates with a punch to the nose.
Martin gets on top of Zimmerman, maybe punches him once, and covers his mouth to keep him from screaming for help.
The cops are already on their way and should be arriving any minute.
Zimmerman has a gun and can use it if he continues to get punched. He does not look like he was punched more than once or twice.
Multiple eyewitnesses are present to potentially break up the fight and have told Zimmerman that they are calling 911.
Zimmerman shoots Martin in the chest. Has very minor wounds consisting of a bloody nose (no break) and 4 or 5 tiny scratches on the back of his head.
But per trims post GZ didn't assault him. :dunno:
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
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this trainer is awesome. "soft" "mostly fat, little muscle"
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
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Just look at the facts.
Zimmerman assaults Martin (see Trim's post).
Just FYI, walking up to someone and asking "what are you doin here?" is not an assault. No way, no how. That's not even a close issue.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
He stopped three times on opposite ends of the neighborhood and stared down Trayvon from his truck before getting out of the car to look for him with a gun on his hip. Even if Trayvon didn't know he had a gun, it could still be considered a threatening act.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
What's great is that for the same reasons that Team Zim cites for why Zimmerman was justified in shooting him (reasonable fear, etc.), that's what supports assault depending on the circumstances of a guy "walking behind someone."
But go ahead and connect the dots and say that everyone in every big city with lots of pedestrian traffic should be arrested for assault because they're all technically "walking behind someone."
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
But Nuts Kicked is pretty sure that's how it went down so it must be true
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
He stopped three times on opposite ends of the neighborhood and stared down Trayvon from his truck before getting out of the car to look for him with a gun on his hip. Even if Trayvon didn't know he had a gun, it could still be considered a threatening act.
Staring at someone is not assault, unless maybe youre in prison.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
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Obviously, the only way to hash this out is - as K-S-U-Wildcats! has pointed out a few times - for us all to be in the situation ourselves.
1st real football game (not the Friday night exhibition against the canadian team) - FollowAroundgEPostersWhileCarryingAGunAndAskingWhatThey'reDoingTherePAK?
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I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
I think chasing Martin down constitutes a threat of some sort.
I'm still confused how a "total fatass" that you personally said was so fat that he had to stop running after an 8 second sprint because he was winded, chased and caught up to a skinny 17 year old kid wearing tennis shoes that had a head start.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
What's great is that for the same reasons that Team Zim cites for why Zimmerman was justified in shooting him (reasonable fear, etc.), that's what supports assault depending on the circumstances of a guy "walking behind someone."
Are you just playing devils advocate, or do you really not see a difference between being followed/approached and being pummeled? This is a really dumb debate.
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I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
I think chasing Martin down constitutes a threat of some sort.
I'm still confused how a "total fatass" that you personally said was so fat that he had to stop running after an 8 second sprint because he was winded, chased and caught up to a skinny 17 year old kid wearing tennis shoes that had a head start.
Zimmerman was 120 lbs lighter at the time, and it also seems somewhat likely that Martin didn't want this psycho to know where he was living.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
He stopped three times on opposite ends of the neighborhood and stared down Trayvon from his truck before getting out of the car to look for him with a gun on his hip. Even if Trayvon didn't know he had a gun, it could still be considered a threatening act.
Staring at someone is not assault, unless maybe youre in prison.
I know
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
He stopped three times on opposite ends of the neighborhood and stared down Trayvon from his truck before getting out of the car to look for him with a gun on his hip. Even if Trayvon didn't know he had a gun, it could still be considered a threatening act.
It's a stretch. Trayvon had lost him and was only a few hundred feet from his destination where his father was. He could have easily been home in less than 20 seconds if he felt threatened.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
What's great is that for the same reasons that Team Zim cites for why Zimmerman was justified in shooting him (reasonable fear, etc.), that's what supports assault depending on the circumstances of a guy "walking behind someone."
Are you just playing devils advocate, or do you really not see a difference between being followed/approached and being pummeled? This is a really dumb debate.
Big difference when it comes to justifying killing a guy, but I'm speaking about the assault statute.
An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
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I'm not sure they could conjure up a witness at any point to say GZ threatened him with a weapon or even threatened him verbally. I imagine they would have come forward by now.
I think chasing Martin down constitutes a threat of some sort.
I'm still confused how a "total fatass" that you personally said was so fat that he had to stop running after an 8 second sprint because he was winded, chased and caught up to a skinny 17 year old kid wearing tennis shoes that had a head start.
Zimmerman was 120 lbs lighter at the time, and it also seems somewhat likely that Martin didn't want this psycho to know where he was living.
So he caught up to martin at the sidewalk T? Then detained him for 4 minutes, then baited martin into a fight so he could shoot him while police are on the way?
The time-line and location where he was killed are the biggest WTF for me in this case.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9A-gp8mrdw&feature=player_detailpage#t=121s
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. crap he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
:lol:
Yes! Everyone making fun of how fat GZ has gotten since then reflect exactly what a fat pig he was back then and that he could hardly walk half a block without losing his breath!
If the clothes don't fit (because of how fat he is), you must acquit!
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
What's great is that for the same reasons that Team Zim cites for why Zimmerman was justified in shooting him (reasonable fear, etc.), that's what supports assault depending on the circumstances of a guy "walking behind someone."
Are you just playing devils advocate, or do you really not see a difference between being followed/approached and being pummeled? This is a really dumb debate.
Big difference when it comes to justifying killing a guy, but I'm speaking about the assault statute.
An “assault” is an intentional, unlawful threat by word or act to do violence to the person of another, coupled with an apparent ability to do so, and doing some act which creates a well-founded fear in such other person that such violence is imminent.
Right, both will be determined based on reasonableness, but the comparison ends there. No prosecutor would charge assault based simply on staring at and approaching someone and asking "what are you doing here?". It's ridiculous.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. crap he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Thanks. I forgot that part.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
:lol:
Yes! Everyone making fun of how fat GZ has gotten since then reflect exactly what a fat pig he was back then and that he could hardly walk half a block without losing his breath!
If the clothes don't fit (because of how fat he is), you must acquit!
I was talking about the trainer and the PA's testimony that GZ was very out of shape back then - not his current condition.
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
Chasing him down with a gun after he starts running is.
Chasing someone down could be assault, but there's no evidence this happened per Dee Dee's testimony, who was on the phone with him at the time. Pointing a gun or even brandishing one would be assault, but there's no evidence of that either.
Yeah, I'm sure he just sounded out of breath on the 911 phone call because he was casually walking around following Trayvon Martin. Also, Martin wasn't scared at all. He probably didn't even run away in the first place. Zimmerman must have lied about that.
Zimmerman said that Martin ran away? You sure about that? And the way this guys condition is being described, it didn't take much for him to get winded. Listening to that call, it sure doesnt sound like GZ was sprinting after someone.
Zimmerman: No you go in straight through the entrance and then you make a left...uh you go straight in, don't turn, and make a left. crap he's running.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah
Thanks. I forgot that part.
omg :lol:
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:lol:
So, the PAK idea?
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:lol:
So, the PAK idea?
I don't have a concealed carry permit. :frown:
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:lol:
So, the PAK idea?
I don't have a concealed carry permit. :frown:
Do it in OP and we can open-carry.
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:lol:
So, the PAK idea?
I don't have a concealed carry permit. :frown:
Me neither, but we might not have to conceal them for long! BANG!
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So are we saying that the act of walking behind someone is assault?
He stopped three times on opposite ends of the neighborhood and stared down Trayvon from his truck before getting out of the car to look for him with a gun on his hip. Even if Trayvon didn't know he had a gun, it could still be considered a threatening act.
It's a stretch. Trayvon had lost him and was only a few hundred feet from his destination where his father was. He could have easily been home in less than 20 seconds if he felt threatened.
I was under the impression his father was not home, it was just TM and his younger brother. The most likely scenario in my mind is TM putting some distance between himself and GZ but did not want to lead this creep stalking him to where his little brother is. Instead, he chose to confront the stalker.
I don't think it is likely TM initiated the physical confrontation, it is a million times more likely GZ did to keep TM from getting away. If TM was as "hard" as some posters claim due to the issues at school, texts and facebook pics he would of confronted GZ immediately and never tried to evade Captain Courage.
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If TM wanted to get away he could have, end of story
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end of story
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Defense arguing right now that Trayvon busted Zimmerman up because weed, and Zim had to defend himself from Black Spicoli.
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Defense arguing right now that Trayvon busted Zimmerman up because weed, and Zim had to defend himself from Black Spicoli.
Does this create the potentially hilarious necessity for The State to argue that weed is harmless and peaceful?
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Sometimes I pause the feed to get a good screenshot of Zim's fat face, and then I unpause and I have to keep clicking because he's still stationary and I can't tell if I'm paused or not.
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Defense arguing right now that Trayvon busted Zimmerman up because weed, and Zim had to defend himself from Black Spicoli.
Does this create the potentially hilarious necessity for The State to argue that weed is harmless and peaceful?
Well then who'll ERII root for?
:runaway:
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http://www.wptv.com/generic/news/national/George-Zimmerman-trial-complete-coverage
Live video link on here.
And yeah, the State right now is arguing about how there's no evidence of what effect, if any, THC would have. :lol:
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Next Witness, please.
Your Honor, The State calls to the stand: Jim Breuer.
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Sometimes I pause the feed to get a good screenshot of Zim's fat face, and then I unpause and I have to keep clicking because he's still stationary and I can't tell if I'm paused or not.
Was going to mention this earlier. Half the time when I glance over at the video feed and it's on Zimm I think that it's buffering because he doesn't move
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Defense arguing right now that Trayvon busted Zimmerman up because weed, and Zim had to defend himself from Black Spicoli.
Does this create the potentially hilarious necessity for The State to argue that weed is harmless and peaceful?
Well then who'll ERII root for?
:runaway:
:grin:
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Guys, there may have been THC in Trayvon Martin's system. Which always makes people more violent.
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Guys, there may have been THC in Trayvon Martin's system. Which always makes people more violent.
I know, it's almost like they're just tossing anything at the wall to cause doubt. Weird strategy. The defense is totally not gonna meet its burden of proving GZ innocent beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Guys, there may have been THC in Trayvon Martin's system. Which always makes people more violent.
Not to mention 1 hit of weed can leave THC in your system for 30 days, Trayvon had weed that was so good he was high for weeks. :bong:
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The fact that his marijuana use is being brought up and used as a negative really pisses me off
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The fact that his marijuana use is being brought up and used as a negative really pisses me off
Of course. It should.
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Greg Swaim Show ?@GSwaim 1h
I saw a kid on synthetic marijuana last week who didn't know who he was, so it's very relevant in the zimmerman case.
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
When you sit locked in a jail cell all day while scarfing down cheap low quality jail food it's kinda tough not to put on some pounds.
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was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening?
I think it was. especially since they brought in his trainer to make fun of his fatness.
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
When you sit locked in a jail cell all day while scarfing down cheap low quality jail food it's kinda tough not to put on some pounds.
Don't they get time to lift weights and play basketball or something? Hasn't he been out on bail for a long time now?
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
When you sit locked in a jail cell all day while scarfing down cheap low quality jail food it's kinda tough not to put on some pounds.
You haven't followed this story at all have you? He didn't spend any time in jail. You keep chiming in but you don't even know basic fact about this case.
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
When you sit locked in a jail cell all day while scarfing down cheap low quality jail food it's kinda tough not to put on some pounds.
You haven't followed this story at all have you? He didn't spend any time in jail. You keep chiming in but you don't even know basic fact about this case.
eastcat is one of the worst posters on this board, right next to FSD. He's basically just an old racist tuck who wandered over here from GPC.
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Seems like the people who say that GZ was defending himself form an attacking TM, just completely ignore the possibility that TM may have started attacking GZ to defend himself form a guy with a gun.
Of course that same thing can be said of those who believe GZ was the attacker. A lot of stupid surrounding this trial.
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GZ won't testify. Defense will rest tomorrow.
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is that like a pound a day? when did this (the killing, not the fattening) happen? was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening? can you just get fat like that by accident?
When you sit locked in a jail cell all day while scarfing down cheap low quality jail food it's kinda tough not to put on some pounds.
You haven't followed this story at all have you? He didn't spend any time in jail. You keep chiming in but you don't even know basic fact about this case.
eastcat is one of the worst posters on this board.
ya
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Why was this a sham?
Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Why was this a sham?
Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.
They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
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lol if the Martin family thinks they'll get a dime from Zimm
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lol if the Martin family thinks they'll get a dime from Zimm
What happens to Zimm if he doesn't pay up?
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Not that I think they could get Fund money out of a judgment vs. Zimmerman anyway, but that Fund's balance sheet is going to look exactly like the Ahearn Fund every year where there's a line item for "other expenses" that magically brings the balance to zero.
They'll have to hope folks like K-S-U-Wildcats! hire Zim for speaking engagements and stuff.
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lol if the Martin family thinks they'll get a dime from Zimm
What happens to Zimm if he doesn't pay up?
debtor's prison
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they will get that pistol he was so fond of packing on his neighbor hood watch
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Did the Browns and Goldmans ever get paid by OJ?
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Did the Browns and Goldmans ever get paid by OJ?
not really.
I think the point is they will hit him with a judgment so he can't go around making money speaking to gun maniac groups about the night he heroically took down a perp.
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Did the Browns and Goldmans ever get paid by OJ?
not really.
I think the point is they will hit him with a judgment so he can't go around making money speaking to gun maniac groups about the night he heroically took down a perp.
I mean, Zimm's life if pretty much ruined anyway. He should just shack up w/ Snowden down in Venezuela
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Why was this a sham?
Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.
They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
What should they have done differently?
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Did the Browns and Goldmans ever get paid by OJ?
not really.
I think the point is they will hit him with a judgment so he can't go around making money speaking to gun maniac groups about the night he heroically took down a perp.
I mean, Zimm's life if pretty much ruined anyway. He should just shack up w/ Snowden down in Venezuela
Kind of suspicious that somebody named "Snowden" is in Venezuela, no? Better grab the piece and go see what's up.
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Did the Browns and Goldmans ever get paid by OJ?
not really.
I think the point is they will hit him with a judgment so he can't go around making money speaking to gun maniac groups about the night he heroically took down a perp.
I mean, Zimm's life if pretty much ruined anyway. He should just shack up w/ Snowden down in Venezuela
Yeah. I'm sure he wishes he didn't have his gun with him on that night.
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Not that I think they could get Fund money out of a judgment vs. Zimmerman anyway, but that Fund's balance sheet is going to look exactly like the Ahearn Fund every year where there's a line item for "other expenses" that magically brings the balance to zero.
They'll have to hope folks like K-S-U-Wildcats! hire Zim for speaking engagements and stuff.
No, I wouldn't hire him for a speaking engagement, but if he writes a book "if I DID IT" like OJ, I might buy it.
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Not that I think they could get Fund money out of a judgment vs. Zimmerman anyway, but that Fund's balance sheet is going to look exactly like the Ahearn Fund every year where there's a line item for "other expenses" that magically brings the balance to zero.
They'll have to hope folks like K-S-U-Wildcats! hire Zim for speaking engagements and stuff.
No, I wouldn't hire him for a speaking engagement, but if he writes a book "if I DID IT" like OJ, I might buy it.
Why? It's not like that would be some kind of revelation. Everybody already knows he did it.
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
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TM's family has a better case in the civil suit because of GZ getting out of the vehicle and following TM. GZ was specifically told not to do that and did so anway, an action that was the catalyst for this whole situation. With the lower burden that fact helps largely in getting to 51%
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TM's family has a better case in the civil suit because of GZ getting out of the vehicle and following TM. GZ was specifically told not to do that and did so anway, an action that was the catalyst for this whole situation. With the lower burden that fact helps largely in getting to 51%
Plus, Martin ran away and then was chased down and gunned down by GZ.
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was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening?
I think it was. especially since they brought in his trainer to make fun of his fatness.
Yeah, do what they can to make him seem harmless and give the subconscious impression that this man isn't chasing anyone down and surely isn't going to go around starting fights.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
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Defense will rest tomorrow.
Thank god, I'm so over this sham. Ready to get to the civil trial that will be much more fun. Also will be excited to see Trayvon's parents get their hands on the money that all the racists and gun nuts donated to the Zimmerman Defense Fund.
Why was this a sham?
Also, self defense will still apply in a civil suit, so I'm not sure why you think that case is a surefire winner for TM's parents? Even with a lower burden of proof, this evidence probably doesn't support wrongful death by a preponderance of the evidence. And while GZ's prior brushes with the law are more likely to be admissible, so will TM's much more recent and abundant texts regarding fighting, so it's probably a net negative for TM.
They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
What should they have done differently?
Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
You are being dumb if you think that specific impressions aren't consciously controlled by ppl in such situations.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
I don't know what the final jury instructions will end up being in this case, but here are a couple examples of common introductory instructions.
In determining the facts, you may draw reasonable inferences from the evidence. You may make
deductions and reach conclusions which reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts
shown by the evidence in this case. But you should not speculate on any matters outside the evidence.
You should use common sense in weighing the evidence and consider the evidence in
light of your own observations in life.
In our lives, we often look at one fact and conclude from it that another fact exists. In
law we call this “inference.” A jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences. Any inferences
you make must be reasonable and must be based on the evidence in the case.
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GZ is pretty lucky Trim doesn't work for the state of Florida.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
I don't know what the final jury instructions will end up being in this case, but here are a couple examples of common introductory instructions.
In determining the facts, you may draw reasonable inferences from the evidence. You may make
deductions and reach conclusions which reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts
shown by the evidence in this case. But you should not speculate on any matters outside the evidence.
You should use common sense in weighing the evidence and consider the evidence in
light of your own observations in life.
In our lives, we often look at one fact and conclude from it that another fact exists. In
law we call this “inference.” A jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences. Any inferences
you make must be reasonable and must be based on the evidence in the case.
Welp
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TM's family has a better case in the civil suit because of GZ getting out of the vehicle and following TM. GZ was specifically told not to do that and did so anway, an action that was the catalyst for this whole situation. With the lower burden that fact helps largely in getting to 51%
First, I think GZ was told "you don't need to do that," which is not exactly the same thing as an order not to follow, but it doesn't really matter anyway. The same evidence was presented here. You really think that based on the evidence presented, GZ is guilty by a preponderance of the evidence? Seems like a real stretch.
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
Yup, amazing and glorious. I'll probably say something like "well, the jury was the wildcard" just like I already have.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
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GZ is pretty lucky Trim doesn't work for the state of Florida.
He's licensed there, I think.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
I don't know what the final jury instructions will end up being in this case, but here are a couple examples of common introductory instructions.
In determining the facts, you may draw reasonable inferences from the evidence. You may make
deductions and reach conclusions which reason and common sense lead you to draw from the facts
shown by the evidence in this case. But you should not speculate on any matters outside the evidence.
You should use common sense in weighing the evidence and consider the evidence in
light of your own observations in life.
In our lives, we often look at one fact and conclude from it that another fact exists. In
law we call this “inference.” A jury is allowed to make reasonable inferences. Any inferences
you make must be reasonable and must be based on the evidence in the case.
Instructions like these are very common, and some form of them will almost certainly be used here. We expect jurors to weigh the evidence presented and use common sense. Not sure why you think this necessarily helps the state's case.
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They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
What should they have done differently?
Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.
Only if you have time. Otherwise, let's just assume the prosecutors are idiots.
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Instructions like these are very common, and some form of them will almost certainly be used here. We expect jurors to weigh the evidence presented and use common sense. Not sure why you think this necessarily helps the state's case.
Quoting them because, as I mentioned pages back, they often have to be highlighted for jurors like ERII who think "beyond a reasonable doubt" means that the prosecutor needed to teleport the jury back in time to first-hand witness the crime, and to address the post he made.
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GZ is pretty lucky Trim doesn't work for the state of Florida.
He's licensed there, I think.
The way attorneys, or law students, become prosecutors there is really strange.
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:jerk:
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Florida authorities have a message as the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial looms: raise your voice, not your hands.
Anticipating that the outcome of the very public, and racially-tinged, case is likely to disappoint one swath of the population or another, law enforcement agencies have set up a response plan.
Part of it is a public service announcement that the Broward County Sheriff's Office released this week. In it, a black teenage boy and a Hispanic girl urge viewers to "stand together as one. No cuffs, no guns."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic :facepalm: who is on trial for last year's shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a black teen, in Sanford city. Sanford is in Seminole County.
Millions of Americans have already made up their minds about what should happen. And no matter how the verdict falls, authorities worry passions will be inflamed. That's where the video comes in -- a plea not to resort to violence.
"Freedom of expression is a constitutional right," the sheriff's office said. "While raising your voice is encouraged, using your hands is not."
In the video, the boy says, "Let's give violence a rest, because we can easily end up arrested." The girl adds, "Let it roll off your shoulders. It's water off your back, don't lack composure. Because in one instant it could be over."
I like how PSAs treat people like kindergartners.
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Florida authorities have a message as the verdict in the George Zimmerman trial looms: raise your voice, not your hands.
Anticipating that the outcome of the very public, and racially-tinged, case is likely to disappoint one swath of the population or another, law enforcement agencies have set up a response plan.
Part of it is a public service announcement that the Broward County Sheriff's Office released this week. In it, a black teenage boy and a Hispanic girl urge viewers to "stand together as one. No cuffs, no guns."
Zimmerman is a white Hispanic :facepalm: who is on trial for last year's shooting death of Trayvon Martin, a black teen, in Sanford city. Sanford is in Seminole County.
Millions of Americans have already made up their minds about what should happen. And no matter how the verdict falls, authorities worry passions will be inflamed. That's where the video comes in -- a plea not to resort to violence.
"Freedom of expression is a constitutional right," the sheriff's office said. "While raising your voice is encouraged, using your hands is not."
In the video, the boy says, "Let's give violence a rest, because we can easily end up arrested." The girl adds, "Let it roll off your shoulders. It's water off your back, don't lack composure. Because in one instant it could be over."
I like how PSAs treat people like kindergartners.
:horrorsurprise:
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Florida is BITB at racism. T's & P's to Alabama, Arkansas, Mississippi, Georgia, etc.
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They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
What should they have done differently?
Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.
Only if you have time. Otherwise, let's just assume the prosecutors are idiots.
It's the default presumption in the great state of Florida. See State v. Anthony, Casey
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On him getting all fat. It has to be a strategy and one that the defense knew was easier to pull off than "get super skinny and waste away to nothing"
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White Hispanics are a thing
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
The actual evidence shows that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly in hunting down an unarmed civilian and killing him.
edit - in celebration of #7000:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bubblews.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fnews%2F1535567796_1363819314.jpg&hash=18232ccc8f93d47812cfbbbe42c369b3704a7ea0)
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By the way, how much of a joke was that 3D cartoon video that showed the defense's preferred scenario? I couldn't believe the judge would even consider that as evidence.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
The actual evidence shows that Zimmerman acted irresponsibly in hunting down an unarmed civilian and killing him.
edit - in celebration of #7000:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bubblews.com%2Fassets%2Fimages%2Fnews%2F1535567796_1363819314.jpg&hash=18232ccc8f93d47812cfbbbe42c369b3704a7ea0)
jfc, that's a GPC post if I've ever seen one
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Are we doing this now?
How long until RebelRebelEMAW.com is up? Or are we all going to BradIsInEgypt.com?
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If you're too much of a contrarian douchebag to enjoy a nice pair of tits, maybe it's you who has the problem.
-
welp
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god dammit...just...just..eff. I'm at a loss for words at how bad of a turn this thread just took.
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Zimm kinda looks like an older cousin of Ramon from last night's episode of Catfish
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
Yup, amazing and glorious. I'll probably say something like "well, the jury was the wildcard" just like I already have.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
What is the burdon of proof for self defense in Florida? I'm not an attorney and don't want to be one but it seems to me Zimmerman should have to prove he acted in self defense not the other way around. He's admitted to shooting and killing an unarmed minor. For me when something like that happens you throw out the entire innocent until proven guilty bs. My understanding is every state state has differenct self defense laws and Florida tends to be amongst the most lienant.
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If I'm ever arrested, I'm calling Zimm's attorneys (if I can't afford Trim). These guys really know what they're doing
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Zimmerman has not made up his mind about whether or not he'll testify?
:horrorsurprise:
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
Yup, amazing and glorious. I'll probably say something like "well, the jury was the wildcard" just like I already have.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
What is the burdon of proof for self defense in Florida? I'm not an attorney and don't want to be one but it seems to me Zimmerman should have to prove he acted in self defense not the other way around. He's admitted to shooting and killing an unarmed minor. For me when something like that happens you throw out the entire innocent until proven guilty bs. My understanding is every state state has differenct self defense laws and Florida tends to be amongst the most lienant.
From my understanding the "stand your ground" law is interpreted pretty liberally in FL.
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Zimmerman has not made up his mind about whether or not he'll testify?
:horrorsurprise:
How rude was the judge just now!? Holy cow, I mean come on! Talk about a B-I-T-C-H!
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jesus christ beems, take a rough ridin' lap
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What in the world is this prosecutor doing laying on the floor? This guys needs to be fired
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I'm not predicting that GZ gets convicted, but if he does KSU is going to be glorious.
Yeah, it would be amazing.
Yup, amazing and glorious. I'll probably say something like "well, the jury was the wildcard" just like I already have.
And speaking of empathy, I'm going to revise my prediction. I still think there's zero chance of murder, but I now think there's a maybe 50/50 chance of manslaughter. From a legal standpoint, it would not be justified based on the evidence, and would probably even be tossed on appeal, but I can't rule out the impact of the all woman jury. Women tend to be a bit more favorable in general to prosecution. They're also less likely, or capable, of putting themselves in GZ's shoes during the fight while he's pinned to the ground, instead judging the reasonableness as a more passive observer. Finally, women are more empathetic, and may want to give TM's mom at least something. Not saying it will happen, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
What is the burdon of proof for self defense in Florida? I'm not an attorney and don't want to be one but it seems to me Zimmerman should have to prove he acted in self defense not the other way around. He's admitted to shooting and killing an unarmed minor. For me when something like that happens you throw out the entire innocent until proven guilty bs. My understanding is every state state has differenct self defense laws and Florida tends to be amongst the most lienant.
From my understanding the "stand your ground" law is interpreted pretty liberally in FL.
Stand you ground is not at issue in this case. This is classic self defense. And in answer to the question above, in Florida, the defendant has the initial burden of "producing enough evidence to establish a prima facie case demonstrating the justifiable use of force." This is an extremely low threshhold, and GZ has more than satisfied it. If he does, the court will provide a jury instruction re self defense, and the state has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not act in self defense. I don't think FL law is unique in this regard. The law is substantially the same in Kansas, for example: the state must prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self defense.
And just FYI, KS and about half of all states have "stand your ground" as part of self-defense, though again, that's not relevant here.
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Recess then Zimm has to give an answer on whether he will testify or not :ohno:
Spoiler Alert: he won't
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was the photo of the boobs evidence for the defense or prosecution? (haven't been watching, TIA)
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Interesting, after all that fighting over whether the defense could introduce the pot evidence, and the court allowing it, I'm pretty sure they never got into it.
I wonder if the state will present any rebuttal?
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was the photo of the boobs evidence for the defense or prosecution? (haven't been watching, TIA)
That was just Ben celebrating his 7000th post on a K-State message board.
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was getting much fatter a defense strategy? like to make him look non-threatening?
I think it was. especially since they brought in his trainer to make fun of his fatness.
Was my favorite part of the trial so far:
"On a scale of 1-10 I would rate his punching as a frightened third grade girl"
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Not testifying. Boss move
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Not testifying. Boss move
yup, total stud
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Not testifying. Boss move
no need to.
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He'll be popping champagne soon.
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TM's family has a better case in the civil suit because of GZ getting out of the vehicle and following TM. GZ was specifically told not to do that and did so anway, an action that was the catalyst for this whole situation. With the lower burden that fact helps largely in getting to 51%
Plus, Martin ran away and then was chased down and gunned down by GZ.
Pro tip: suing people who don't have money is stupid.
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Pro tip: attorneys suing people who don't have money on a contingent fee is stupid.
FYP.
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God, O'Mara is a rough ridin' stud attorney :love:
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\when the state made the case to disallow a dude's testimony because he heard someone else's and then got mushed by the judge. That was great tv
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
Weird that this case and George Zimmerman is your draw a line in the sand moment when it comes to the legal system. This happens literally every day in courtrooms all over America. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is not some kind of measurable black and white standard. Circumstance can't be just thrown away as a matter of convenience when it doesn't fit your viewpoint. You seem smart enough to understand this which is why I can't tell if you're being a contrarian or riding hard for Team GZ.
Generally contrarians have sounder arguments. Essentially what you've spent this entire thread doing is saying since the jury wasn't there Zimmerman can't be found guilty of murder. I'm standing over your bloody body with the knife that matches the wounds but I said someone else did it and I just happened to be walking by when I was handed the knife. No one else saw the murder go down and I have no reason to lie so there's reasonable doubt so I should walk.
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Yea, it'd really be amazing for a man to be convicted based on assumptions and not the actual evidence. Just amazing
Weird that this case and George Zimmerman is your draw a line in the sand moment when it comes to the legal system. This happens literally every day in courtrooms all over America. "Beyond reasonable doubt" is not some kind of measurable black and white standard. Circumstance can't be just thrown away as a matter of convenience when it doesn't fit your viewpoint. You seem smart enough to understand this which is why I can't tell if you're being a contrarian or riding hard for Team GZ.
Generally contrarians have sounder arguments. Essentially what you've spent this entire thread doing is saying since the jury wasn't there Zimmerman can't be found guilty of murder. I'm standing over your bloody body with the knife that matches the wounds but I said someone else did it and I just happened to be walking by when I was handed the knife. No one else saw the murder go down and I have no reason to lie so there's reasonable doubt so I should walk.
I don't know if anyone is saying that and, regardless, that's not the point. The question is whether the state can prove, beyond a reasonable doubt, that GZ did not have a reasonable fear that he would suffer serious bodily harm unless he shot TM.
You're obsessed with what may have happened leading up to the fight - whether he profiled, whether he pursued - but that is of very little, if any, relevance to this case. These things would not justify being attacked, so they do not impact GZ's claim of self defense. What is of much greater relevance is who started the physical fight, and did GZ have a reasonable fear at that time? On those points, we have pretty much zero evidence to support the state's case, and a lot of evidence that corroborates GZ.
No independent eye witnesses saw how the fight began. GZ says TM attacked him. Dee Dee says the last she heard was GZ asking "what are you doing here?" and it seems unlikely he would ask this question only to immediately jump TM, especially after GZ had already called police and they were on their way. And, of course, we know (the jury doesn't) that TM fancied himself some sort of street fighter, boasting about it in his text messages, and had been involved in a number of fights in the months immediately prior to the shooting.
After the fight began, the eye witness testimony, expert testimony, and GZ's injuries are generally consistent with GZ's account that TM was on top, pinning GZ to the ground, hitting his head on the sidewalk. For example, the closest eye witness is certain that TM was on top, hitting GZ "MMA style." The only other purported "eye" witness testified that she thought it was GZ on top, but she was ultimately demolished on x-exam, admitting that all she saw were shadowy figures and that she assumed GZ must have been on top after seeing their pictures on TV in the initial news reporting (which showed TM as a younger boy). The defense expert confirms that TM's shirt was hanging away from his body when he was shot, which would not have happened if he was on his back, and is consistent with him being on top of GZ, leaning over him. I don't think the state presented any evidence to contradict this.
Thus, no impartial jury should find beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not act in self defense, but we will see.
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Suffering serious bodily harm is not a defense for murder, sir. What is the standard for "serious bodily harm," is it a bloody nose, broken arm, concussion, really bad paper cut, kick to the dick? For me it would depend on who is inflicting the harm on me. If it was a white neo-con who bloodied my nose I'd blast away if I knew I could walk.
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution. This will be crucial in order for GZ to avoid jail, as the lessers he could be convicted of still carry a significant amount of jailtime. I don't believe anyone at this point thinks he will be convicted of the 2nd degree murder charge.
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution.
Wrong. So completely wrong.
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Suffering serious bodily harm is not a defense for murder, sir.
Right, but it's not murder or even manslaughter if GZ acted in self defense.
What is the standard for "serious bodily harm," is it a bloody nose, broken arm, concussion, really bad paper cut, kick to the dick? For me it would depend on who is inflicting the harm on me. If it was a white neo-con who bloodied my nose I'd blast away if I knew I could walk.
It's been posted about a million times, but let's try again: You do not have to suffer death (obviously) or serious bodily harm before you can act in self defense. You need only have a reasonable fear that you will (future) suffer such harm if you don't act in self defense. You don't have to suffer any injuries at all (but they certainly help), the fear just has to be reasonable.
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Zimm is obviously a huge pussy who more than likely was very scared for his life at the time
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution.
Wrong. So completely wrong.
O rly? Tell me why, barrister.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
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Not too high, too hard..
Who gives a crap its outta here
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution.
Wrong. So completely wrong.
O rly? Tell me why, barrister.
Well, just for example, from Falwell v. Florida (http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2012/042312/5d10-2011.op.pdf): "The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant." That'll be $325.00.
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They will dust GZ's ass in a civil suit where they can hire a top notch attorney and not depend on the state (no offense to state prosecutors).
What should they have done differently?
Let me review the entire transcript when I have free time and get back to you.
Only if you have time. Otherwise, let's just assume the prosecutors are idiots.
It's the default presumption in the great state of Florida. See State v. Anthony, Casey
I take it back, Limestone. You were right - these prosecutors are effing morons. Closing argument riddled with "may" and "could" all of which = doubt. Pick a theory and stick to it. If you don't know what happened, then why the hell did you bring the case?
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I heard we might be looking at a mistrial. Any truth to this?
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution.
Wrong. So completely wrong.
O rly? Tell me why, barrister.
Well, just for example, from Falwell v. Florida (http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2012/042312/5d10-2011.op.pdf): "The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant." That'll be $325.00.
Wow, you appear to be right. Even the state's prosecutors in the cited case assumed the burden was on the defense. This makes Florida fairly unusual in that regard, no?
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Self-defense is an affirmative defense, meaning it is incumbent upon the defense to prove it's claim - not the prosecution.
Wrong. So completely wrong.
O rly? Tell me why, barrister.
Well, just for example, from Falwell v. Florida (http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2012/042312/5d10-2011.op.pdf): "The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant." That'll be $325.00.
Wow, you appear to be right. Even the state's prosecutors in the cited case assumed the burden was on the defense. This makes Florida fairly unusual in that regard, no?
Nope - that aspect of the law is fairly standard. This is the law in Kansas, too. And BTW, did you notice how that poor defendant got totally effd in the case I cited? His lawyer totally booted it on the jury instruction, but the court still didn't find reversible error. JFC.
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I thought the state's closing was confusing and not good
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Oops still going. This guy sucks
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Well, just for example, from Falwell v. Florida (http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2012/042312/5d10-2011.op.pdf): "The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant." That'll be $325.00.
The parenthetical directly preceding those sentences seems strange to me:
(holding that law does not require defendant to prove self-defense to any standard measuring assurance of truth, exigency, near certainty, or even mere probability; defendant’s only burden is to offer facts from which his resort to force could have been reasonable)
Is that the standard burden or is FL just nuts? Seems crazy low. Shocked my lawyer buddy. (mizzou grad.)
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
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Well, just for example, from Falwell v. Florida (http://www.5dca.org/opinions/opin2012/042312/5d10-2011.op.pdf): "The State has the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant did not act in self-defense. The burden of proving guilt beyond a reasonable doubt, including the burden of proving that the defendant did not act in self-defense, never shifts from the State to the defendant." That'll be $325.00.
The parenthetical directly preceding those sentences seems strange to me:
(holding that law does not require defendant to prove self-defense to any standard measuring assurance of truth, exigency, near certainty, or even mere probability; defendant’s only burden is to offer facts from which his resort to force could have been reasonable)
Is that the standard burden or is FL just nuts? Seems crazy low. Shocked my lawyer buddy. (mizzou grad.)
Nope, that too is pretty standard. For example, it is also the law in Kansas (http://www.kscourts.org/cases-and-opinions/opinions/supct/1998/19980417/79214.htm): "we do not require a defendant to establish his or her defense by a preponderance of evidence. Once evidence of self-defense or evidence that the defendant acted with lesser culpability has been raised, the trial court is bound to instruct the jury on self-defense and any lesser included offense raised by the evidence. It is then up to the jury to resolve the question of guilt upon the charged crime." I'm pretty sure it is also the law in Missouri.
In other words, the defendant just has to present some evidence that he acted in self defense (this is called making a prima facie case, the lowest possible standard, even below the preponderance threshhold). If so, the court gives the jury instruction on self defense, and the state must disprove self defense beyond a reasonable doubt.
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The state's closing was horrible. It's called closing argument, not closing hey let's stare some powerpoints.
Maybe they'll let one of those younger guys turn up in the rebuttal.
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The state's closing was horrible. It's called closing argument, not closing hey let's stare some powerpoints.
Maybe they'll let one of those younger guys turn up in the rebuttal.
Rope-a-dope
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I'm worried these jurors might be dumbasses and come back w/ a guilty verdict
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I'm worried these jurors might be dumbasses and come back w/ a guilty verdict
Worried that the majority of any given group of Floridians are dumbasses? Pfft
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I'm worried these jurors might be dumbasses and come back w/ a guilty verdict
Worried that the majority of any given group of Floridians are dumbasses? Pfft
Looks like the only hope at this point but, yeah, I'd say that's a 50/50 proposition.
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I'm worried these jurors might be dumbasses and come back w/ a guilty verdict
Worried that the majority of any given group of Floridians are dumbasses? Pfft
Looks like the only hope at this point but, yeah, I'd say that's a 50/50 proposition.
on the 2nd degree murder charge that is. I'll be fine w/ a manslaughter conviction
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Some of you guys have spent way to much time on this case.
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Some of you guys have spent way to much time on this case.
some of us aren't having to wear their sugar momma's squawk t-shirts to the gym, fanning.
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Some of you guys have spent way to much time on this case.
the "all-filly" jury aspect couldn't even reel you in?
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
Do you two think deadly force in self defense should always require jail time? Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're saying a killed b, and no matter the circumstances a deserves jail for killing someone.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
:blank:
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Some of you guys have spent way to much time on this case.
some of us aren't having to wear their sugar momma's squawk t-shirts to the gym, fanning.
That didn't make any sense. Stick to the topic.
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The most interesting thing about this trial to me is the vast number of people that have really strong opinions on the case and are really misinformed.
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I'm worried these jurors might be dumbasses and come back w/ a guilty verdict
Worried that the majority of any given group of Floridians are dumbasses? Pfft
Looks like the only hope at this point but, yeah, I'd say that's a 50/50 proposition.
on the 2nd degree murder charge that is. I'll be fine w/ a manslaughter conviction
Nah, I still say 0% chance of murder, but maybe 50/50 manslaughter. I've heard manslaughter committed with a gun is almost akin to murder in terms of sentencing in FL.
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The most interesting thing about this trial to me is the vast number of people that have really strong opinions on the case and are really misinformed.
Story of life bro
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
Really, it just outs people who aren't okay with adults shooting unarmed kids and then claiming self defense. Fear of bodily harm just is not an acceptable standard for self defense. The standard should be an actual legitimate threat to your life. I wouldn't be able to morally vote not guilty here, despite the letter of the law.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed.
Go to cnn.com.
See that? it's been like that for a month. That's why it has so much interest.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
Really, it just outs people who aren't okay with adults shooting unarmed kids and then claiming self defense. Fear of bodily harm just is not an acceptable standard for self defense. The standard should be an actual legitimate threat to your life. I wouldn't be able to morally vote not guilty here, despite the letter of the law.
yeah. it's really just two camps. people that are ok with adult males with guns chasing unarmed kids through neighborhoods at night and then shooting and killing them if the kid gets scared and throws a punch or two and people that aren't ok with armed adult males chasing minors at night and shooting and killing them if the kid being chased gets scared and throws a punch or two.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
:flush:
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Read an article about the closing that made it sound better than the end part I saw where they read powerpoints silently for 10 minutes.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
i don't think it's messed up at all. it should be extremely hard for the state to deprive its citizens of their liberty. if we err in this country, we err in making it far, far too easy, not too hard.
i realize you both understand this. i'm arguing that you should view the situation more sanguinely.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
i don't think it's messed up at all. it should be extremely hard for the state to deprive its citizens of their liberty. if we err in this country, we err in making it far, far too easy, not too hard.
i realize you both understand this. i'm arguing that you should view the situation more sanguinely.
I don't think it should be easier to send GZ to prison and wouldn't change the way trials such as this are handled, but that doesn't mean I don't think it's messed up.
The state should have to show proof that TM didn't start the fight, essentially putting TM on trial at a secondary level. But since TM's dead, the defense doesn't really need enough evidence that would convict him of battery or attempted murder or whatever TM would be charged with if he was alive. Messed up things like this will happen, oh well.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
:flush:
If you can't see that, you're blind. My family is conservative and most are dumbass racist (the older crowd). I think personal political views affect a lot of people's opinions on this. My dad hates Jamie Fox cause he heard on Fox News that he wore TM shirt.
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Fear of bodily harm just is not an acceptable standard for self defense. The standard should be an actual legitimate threat to your life. I wouldn't be able to morally vote not guilty here, despite the letter of the law.
If by legitimate, you mean reasonable, then I don't think you're too far off the current standard, minus the serious bodily harm stuff. And if youre ever in this situation, I think you'd be glad the jury (hopefully) isn't debating "well maybe he would have gotten beat up pretty bad, but was he really reasonable to think he might die?" No, you'll hope like hell the jury isn't second guessing your decision making while your head is being banged into a concrete sidewalk.
The standard isn't the "problem" here. The problem is that there's almost no evidence of how the fight started, only a little more evidence of how the fight went down, and that evidence tends to support GZ's side of the story, which is inconvenient for those who want him to be guilty.
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I'm not sure why this try is taking so long. After all they have video of he entire event.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSlor2PQ.gif&hash=6820c7c0f414a8102dcc7772ab82a8c5d46c8750)
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
the ratio is always given as 99 guilty freed>1 innocent imprisoned. i don't think americans actually find that ratio acceptable (nor do i think it is our actual ratio). if americans were honest with themselves, i wonder what ratio they'd choose?
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And if youre ever in this situation,
I speak for nearly all of gE when I say we won't be.
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I'm not sure why this try is taking so long. After all they have video of he entire event.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FSlor2PQ.gif&hash=6820c7c0f414a8102dcc7772ab82a8c5d46c8750)
OMG
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That's a solid gif :thumbs:
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I speak for nearly all of gE when I say we won't be.
heh, yeah.
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
:flush:
If you can't see that, you're blind. My family is conservative and most are dumbass racist (the older crowd). I think personal political views affect a lot of people's opinions on this. My dad hates Jamie Fox cause he heard on Fox News that he wore TM shirt.
u dumb
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Or you're naive.
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
but wouldn't Martin be on trial, as well? I really don't know how that would work.
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
but wouldn't Martin be on trial, as well? I really don't know how that would work.
Great question? Whoops.... wrong account. :clac:
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
but wouldn't Martin be on trial, as well? I really don't know how that would work.
If Martin had been shot, but lived?
I wonder if he'd even have been charged. Even with Zimmerman being the lone party who can talk, the investigation still led to Zim being charged with 2nd degree murder and the state upholding Martin as the victim. Seems that anything Martin would say would just push what's happening now further in the way of Zim being the charged criminal and Martin being the victim. Maybe the state would've felt better about charging Zim with the assault for the pre-confrontation act?
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I mean it's interesting, but there's probably a lot of cases out there like this that don't get noticed. It has outed a lot of racists/conservatives and leftwing liberals.
:flush:
If you can't see that, you're blind. My family is conservative and most are dumbass racist (the older crowd). I think personal political views affect a lot of people's opinions on this. My dad hates Jamie Fox cause he heard on Fox News that he wore TM shirt.
I :flush: because you seem to think that 'racist' and 'leftwing' are similar qualifiers.
And no crap political views have an effect on this. It's a gun control issue.
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
but wouldn't Martin be on trial, as well? I really don't know how that would work.
trim would know, but can both parties of a double self-defense fight be charged? doesn't the state have to choose one to believe? they couldn't logically argue that they didn't believe either party had a reasonable claim to self defense if they were charging both with some crime of aggression.
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even if martin was alive, it would be he said/he said.
but wouldn't Martin be on trial, as well? I really don't know how that would work.
trim would know, but can both parties of a double self-defense fight be charged? doesn't the state have to choose one to believe? they couldn't logically argue that they didn't believe either party had a reasonable claim to self defense if they were charging both with some crime of aggression.
It could be attempted, but probably impractical, as the respective victims probably won't be good/cooperative witnesses for the same office that's charging them. And both defendants would be using the contradictory evidence/arguments from the opposite case against the state.
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Not too high, too hard..
Who gives a crap its outta here
:D
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
Do you two think deadly force in self defense should always require jail time? Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're saying a killed b, and no matter the circumstances a deserves jail for killing someone.
This is quite possibly the most opposite of what I was saying. I don't really care about the verdict part. In fact, I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time for the same reasons as sys. My point is that the system has a problem when this is a potential result of an over eager neighborhood patrol. Whether that problem is judicial or social or whatever, I don't really know. But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
Do you two think deadly force in self defense should always require jail time? Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're saying a killed b, and no matter the circumstances a deserves jail for killing someone.
This is quite possibly the most opposite of what I was saying. I don't really care about the verdict part. In fact, I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time for the same reasons as sys. My point is that the system has a problem when this is a potential result of an over eager neighborhood patrol. Whether that problem is judicial or social or whatever, I don't really know. But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
yes, well typed.
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
Do you two think deadly force in self defense should always require jail time? Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're saying a killed b, and no matter the circumstances a deserves jail for killing someone.
This is quite possibly the most opposite of what I was saying. I don't really care about the verdict part. In fact, I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time for the same reasons as sys. My point is that the system has a problem when this is a potential result of an over eager neighborhood patrol. Whether that problem is judicial or social or whatever, I don't really know. But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
Well I'm glad I asked.
-
Here's the key jury instruction that the jury will receive later today...
An issue in this case is whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder, and the lesser included offense of Manslaughter, if the death of Trayvon Martin resulted from the justifiable use of deadly force.
“Deadly force” means force likely to cause death or great bodily harm.
A person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.
In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real.
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.
If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.
However, if from the evidence you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find him guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proved.
Seems like a generally fair instruction. I am a bit confused as to why the SYG provision made it into the instruction. Must be a carryover from the standard instruction, but it seems to muddle the issue here.
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg is not a factor in this case
-
seems to me like like ksu wildcats is the next sotomayer
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg is not a factor in this case
It isn't, which is why the instruction is potentially confusing. GZ waived his pre-trial SYG hearing, and it is not the defense's theory of the case that GZ had an opportunity to retreat.
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg is not a factor in this case
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg is not a factor in this case
Is there an echo in here?
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg is not a factor in this case
-
I am a bit confused as to why the SYG provision made it into the instruction.
:lol:
-
:sdeek:
Pic of a dead Trayvon on Gawker. Won't post it here
-
Zim's attorney is killing it.
Poor choice of words?
-
#dadkilledit
-
was just coming here to post about O'mara :love:
-
Zim's attorney is killing it.
Poor choice of words?
It was a pretty darned good closing, but he has the stronger case. I thought the cutouts to compare the size difference b/w the two was particularly effective. I do wish he had given TM's mom a heads up before whipping out the autopsy photo.
You know what was really weird though, not a single mention of SYG. (That one's for you, SD. :cheers:)
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So what was up with the Judge and the line of questioning yesterday? Zimmermans atty's were all :dunno:
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It's kind of messed up that the legal system doesn't require the jury to know "beyond reasonable doubt" that TM attacked GZ. The defense just has to show that it could have happened.
I mean, I get it, but it's messed up.
Agreed. I understand and support the trade off we made, but I don't always enjoy seeing the results. Dude killed a kid. Whether its stand your ground, concealed carry, whatever, there's a glitch in the system. For me, it's mostly about a kid getting killed and less about GZ walking, though.
yeah
Do you two think deadly force in self defense should always require jail time? Maybe I'm misreading, but it seems like you're saying a killed b, and no matter the circumstances a deserves jail for killing someone.
This is quite possibly the most opposite of what I was saying. I don't really care about the verdict part. In fact, I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time for the same reasons as sys. My point is that the system has a problem when this is a potential result of an over eager neighborhood patrol. Whether that problem is judicial or social or whatever, I don't really know. But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
I'm struggling to find a way to figure out how this
I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time
and this
But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
can sensibly coexist in the same coherent thought. Someone please help me out here.
-
Because of the way the laws are structured? Discord between what it's right and what is legal or punishable in our justice system? :dunno:
-
Prosecutor "He lied"
pretty weak.
-
He's doing alright. I might have missed it, but I thought the jury instructions were absolutely settled on by now. I'd be making my argument with the actual instructions as the framework, not what the sides want them to be. Both sides seem to be doing the latter.
-
I'm struggling to find a way to figure out how this
I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time
and this
But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
can sensibly coexist in the same coherent thought. Someone please help me out here.
unnecessarily doesn't mean illegally
-
I'm struggling to find a way to figure out how this
I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time
and this
But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
can sensibly coexist in the same coherent thought. Someone please help me out here.
unnecessarily doesn't mean illegally
Yeah, I think at some point in this thread that what Zimmerman was most guilty of was being a hot-headed jackass with a gun, but you can't really send someone to prison for that.
-
I'm struggling to find a way to figure out how this
I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time
and this
But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
can sensibly coexist in the same coherent thought. Someone please help me out here.
unnecessarily doesn't mean illegally
Yeah, I think at some point in this thread that what Zimmerman was most guilty of was being a hot-headed jackass with a gun, but you can't really send someone to prison for that.
i personally would if given the chance.
-
I'm struggling to find a way to figure out how this
I'd probably lean toward no/minimal prison time
and this
But Martin died because GZ unnecessarily picked a fight and unnecessarily had a gun.
can sensibly coexist in the same coherent thought. Someone please help me out here.
unnecessarily doesn't mean illegally
Yeah, I think at some point in this thread that what Zimmerman was most guilty of was being a hot-headed jackass with a gun, but you can't really send someone to prison for that.
i personally would if given the chance.
You sound like a hot-head.
-
Is there reasonable doubt that Travyon Martin is dead? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
-
Is there reasonable doubt that Travyon Martin is dead? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
self defense burden of proof, tho
-
Is there reasonable doubt that Travyon Martin is dead? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman killed Trayvon Martin? No.
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
self defense burden of proof, tho
He's a ku grad. Product of his environment. Can't blame him for being a dumbass.
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
female jury, tho
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
female jury, tho
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/)
:runaway:
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
female jury, tho
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/)
:runaway:
One Associated Press reporter tweeted that he saw one juror “whipping away a tear” during the prosecution’s argument.
:D
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
female jury, tho
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/)
:runaway:
"Listen to your heart" :jerk:
-
Is there reasonable doubt that the killing was justified and/or committed in self defense? Yes.
Conclusion: no 2nd degree murder conviction
However, I could see a manslaughter conviction, since the evidence shows that Zimmerman did seem to display a disregard for human life, and acted in an irresponsible manner.
Self defense applies to the manslaughter charge exactly the same as the murder charge. If the jury finds the state failed to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ was not acting in self defense, he must be acquitted on both counts (assuming the jury follows the law).
female jury, tho
http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/ (http://www.mediaite.com/online/ap-reporter-zimmerman-juror-appeared-to-be-wiping-away-a-tear-during-prosecution%E2%80%99s-rebuttal/)
:runaway:
One Associated Press reporter tweeted that he saw one juror “whipping away a tear” during the prosecution’s argument.
:D
The AP just won't stop playing the race card. :shakesfist:
-
Lots of wannabe lawyers in this thread.
-
Lots of wannabe lawyers in this thread.
If I were you, I'd put a gag on unless you'd like an attenuation of the taint.
-
BREAKING NEWS:
The Associated Press ?@AP 56s
BREAKING: Jury in Zimmerman murder trial has a question for judge; they want an index of all evidence. -MM
-
:sdeek:
Pic of a dead Trayvon on Gawker. Won't post it here
Here it is, I think everyone who has posted in this thread should look at it:
http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712
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:sdeek:
Pic of a dead Trayvon on Gawker. Won't post it here
Here it is, I think everyone who has posted in this thread should look at it:
http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712
Why does this have any bearing on whether GZ acted in self defense?
-
yeah, that kid looks like a real thug. :jerk:
-
:sdeek:
Pic of a dead Trayvon on Gawker. Won't post it here
Here it is, I think everyone who has posted in this thread should look at it:
http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712
Why does this have any bearing on whether GZ acted in self defense?
It doesn't. Did I say it did? I'll reread the post and double check, but I don't think I said it had anything to do with self-defense.
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lol @ Michigancat being unable to watch a tube in Mos Def's nose but will look at a kid's dead body
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lol @ Michigancat being unable to watch a tube in Mos Def's nose but will look at a kid's dead body
LOL, it looked scary
-
:sdeek:
Pic of a dead Trayvon on Gawker. Won't post it here
Here it is, I think everyone who has posted in this thread should look at it:
http://gawker.com/this-courtesy-of-msnbc-is-trayvon-martins-dead-body-753370712
Why does this have any bearing on whether GZ acted in self defense?
It doesn't. Did I say it did? I'll reread the post and double check, but I don't think I said it had anything to do with self-defense.
Sorry. Just curious, what's your point? We know that Trayvon was killed.
-
Martin looks pretty bad, but you should've seen what he did to Zims! Dude totally had a swollen nose, almost looked broken! And he also had some gnarly cuts on the back of his head, almost half an inch deep! Totally looks justified.
-
It's been on the internet for a few months :jerk:
-
It's been on the internet for a few months :jerk:
In the deep dark corners of the internet. Not a prestigious and honorable news site like gawker.com
-
lol @ Michigancat being unable to watch a tube in Mos Def's nose but will look at a kid's dead body
LOL, it looked scary
I think you just have issues watching harm done to musicians
-
lol @ Michigancat being unable to watch a tube in Mos Def's nose but will look at a kid's dead body
LOL, it looked scary
I think you just have issues watching harm done to musicians
and actors
-
Lots of wannabe lawyers in this thread.
If I were you, I'd put a gag on unless you'd like an attenuation of the taint.
Sounds like something a wannabe lawyer would say.
-
Lots of wannabe lawyers in this thread.
If I were you, I'd put a gag on unless you'd like an attenuation of the taint.
Sounds like something a wannabe lawyer would say.
You're making a compelling use of the derpus derpi derpatum doctrine.
-
Lots of wannabe lawyers in this thread.
If I were you, I'd put a gag on unless you'd like an attenuation of the taint.
Sounds like something a wannabe lawyer would say.
You're making a compelling use of the derpus derpi derpatum doctrine.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fametia.files.wordpress.com%2F2013%2F07%2Ffox_zimmerman_laughs_130703c1.gif&hash=04753fecad356c4a069659683082934ed56eafc0)
-
lol
-
yeah, that kid looks like a real thug. :jerk:
He looks dead. Weird conclusion.
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
Spot on analysis. Zimmerman may be acquitted, but I'll honestly never understand the Team Zimmerman folks who are actively rooting for a wannabe cop to get away with killing an unarmed black kid.
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
Spot on analysis. Zimmerman may be acquitted, but I'll honestly never understand the Team Zimmerman folks who are actively rooting for a wannabe cop to get away with killing an unarmed black kid.
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
Spot on analysis. Zimmerman may be acquitted, but I'll honestly never understand the Team Zimmerman folks who are actively rooting for a wannabe cop to get away with killing an unarmed black kid.
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
Yeah.... right.
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
Spot on analysis. Zimmerman may be acquitted, but I'll honestly never understand the Team Zimmerman folks who are actively rooting for a wannabe cop to get away with killing an unarmed black kid.
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
I suppose it's possible that all the folks who have donated to GZ's legal fund are merely doing so because they feel strongly about the lack of evidence in this case and regularly contribute to legal funds in cases where they feel the state lacks evidence.
However, I would guess that many are rooting for the ability to behave as Zimmerman behaved without any legal repercussions. You may say this doesn't contradict what you posted, but I think the difference is merely semantics.
-
http://gawker.com/will-george-zimmerman-get-away-with-murder-757850043
Spot on analysis. Zimmerman may be acquitted, but I'll honestly never understand the Team Zimmerman folks who are actively rooting for a wannabe cop to get away with killing an unarmed black kid.
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
lmao
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
What are you talking about? Gun nuts brandish their weapons like superheroes preventing crimes millions of times a year, usually with no dead bodies and no police reports. Just ask emo.
-
You'd hear about it more but LIBERAL MEDIA
-
"When searching Zimmerman's truck, investigators were stunned to discover that Martin had broken his nose but not his eggs."
-
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
maybe they're rooting against martin? :dunno:
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
I'm neither a gun nut nor a racist, for what it's worth, I just don't like the idea of sending people to prison for 20 years who very well might be innocent, or at the very least, aren't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I will admit however, that I resent prosecutors, who are supposedly officers of the court and advocates of justice, telling jurors to "use your heart." The state's entire case depends upon this jury reaching a compromise verdict or voting out of empathy, and I think that's wrong.
-
Yeah, the state's prosecution was definitely a buncha duds.
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
I'm neither a gun nut nor a racist, for what it's worth, I just don't like the idea of sending people to prison for 20 years who very well might be innocent, or at the very least, aren't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I will admit however, that I resent prosecutors, who are supposedly officers of the court and advocates of justice, telling jurors to "use your heart." The state's entire case depends upon this jury reaching a compromise verdict or voting out of empathy, and I think that's wrong.
Yup. :thumbs:
-
http://youtu.be/rwg4WuOno88
-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
-
Nobody is rooting for Zimmerman.
maybe they're rooting against martin ? :dunno:
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
I'm neither a gun nut nor a racist, for what it's worth, I just don't like the idea of sending people to prison for 20 years who very well might be innocent, or at the very least, aren't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I will admit however, that I resent prosecutors, who are supposedly officers of the court and advocates of justice, telling jurors to "use your heart." The state's entire case depends upon this jury reaching a compromise verdict or voting out of empathy, and I think that's wrong.
Yup. :thumbs:
You guys were both cheering for George long before the prosecutors ever told the jury to use their hearts. In fact I'd be willing to bet you were super duper cheering for George long before the trial even started.
-
there are gun people that are unabashedly rooting for the defense because of the implications on their fantasies of someday using their guns
I'm neither a gun nut nor a racist, for what it's worth, I just don't like the idea of sending people to prison for 20 years who very well might be innocent, or at the very least, aren't guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. I will admit however, that I resent prosecutors, who are supposedly officers of the court and advocates of justice, telling jurors to "use your heart." The state's entire case depends upon this jury reaching a compromise verdict or voting out of empathy, and I think that's wrong.
Yup. :thumbs:
You guys were both cheering for George long before the prosecutors ever told the jury to use their hearts. In fact I'd be willing to bet you were super duper cheering for George long before the trial even started.
They loved Zimmerman the moment that their heroes, Hannity and Rush, started defending him on conservative talk show radio.
-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
Did you read that article? Her husband was in the kitchen, hadn't even approached her yet she went and got her gun out of the garage and started shooting in the house?
Apples to Orangoutang comparison.
-
http://youtu.be/rwg4WuOno88
:emawkid:
That guy would be an amazing wrestling heel
-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
Did you read that article? Her husband was in the kitchen, hadn't even approached her yet she went and got her gun out of the garage and started shooting in the house?
Apples to Orangoutang comparison.
i posted a link, i didn't make a comparison.
-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
Florida :dubious:
-
George Zimmerman has to be the most unlikeable poster child ever. Can you imagine the groundswell of support if he wasn't so zimmermany?
-
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57434757-504083/fla-woman-marissa-alexander-gets-20-years-for-warning-shot-did-she-stand-her-ground/
Did you read that article? Her husband was in the kitchen, hadn't even approached her yet she went and got her gun out of the garage and started shooting in the house?
Apples to Orangoutang comparison.
i posted a link, i didn't make a comparison.
You posted an article and I made the comparison.
Not sure what you're trying to say.
-
http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/index.html (http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/13/justice/zimmerman-it-firing/index.html)
Sanford, Florida (CNN) -- An employee of the Florida State Attorney's Office who testified that prosecutors withheld evidence from George Zimmerman's defense team has been fired.
Ben Kruidbos had been on paid administrative leave since May 28 from his job as director of information technology for the State Attorney's Office.
A spokeswoman for Fourth Judicial Circuit State Attorney Angela Corey said Kruidbos was no longer an employee of the office.
Kruidbos testified before Zimmerman's trial began that Martin's cell phone contained images of Martin blowing smoke, images of marijuana and deleted text messages regarding a transaction for a firearm and that those images had not been given to Zimmerman's defense team.
He received the termination letter, dated July 11, on Friday, the same day jurors began deliberating Zimmerman's case. The letter states: "It has come to our attention that you violated numerous State Attorney's Office (SAO) policies and procedures and have engaged in deliberate misconduct that is especially egregious in light of your position."
Kruidbos said that, when he printed a 900-page Florida Department of Law Enforcement report from Martin's cell phone in late 2012 or early 2013, he noticed information was missing.
Concerned that attorneys did not have all the information they needed to prepare the case, he said, he reported his concerns to a State Attorney's Office investigator and later to prosecutor Bernie de la Rionda.
Kruidbos said he generated a report that was more than three times the size of the one that had been handed over.
-
Get out of jail free?
-
You posted an article and I made the comparison.
ok. then, yes, i read the article.
-
two scenarios...
1) you are in highschool and you are walking through an unfamiliar neighborhood at night and an older guy is following you in a truck and then gets out and starts chasing you
2) a highschooler is punching you in the middle of a of a middle class neighborhood backyard
which one is scarier?
-
two scenarios...
1) you are in highschool and you are walking through an unfamiliar neighborhood at night and an older guy is following you in a truck and then gets out and starts chasing you
2) a highschooler is punching you in the middle of a of a middle class neighborhood backyard
which one is scarier?
how hard is he punching?
-
two scenarios...
1) you are in highschool and you are walking through an unfamiliar neighborhood at night and an older guy is following you in a truck and then gets out and starts chasing you
2) a highschooler is punching you in the middle of a of a middle class neighborhood backyard
which one is scarier?
how hard is he punching?
i would say average highschooler punching. also, you are an adult male and it's in a neighborhood that you are very familiar with. it is dark, but not late and there are a bunch of houses around with people still awake in them.
-
they are both scary, because the other party is a stranger. you have no idea what he's thinking or what weapons he possesses.
the whole line of thinking where people try to minimize the fight to some sort of high school or pickup game fistfight is stupid. for the above reason.
-
they are both scary, because the other party is a stranger. you have no idea what he's thinking or what weapons he possesses.
the whole line of thinking where people try to minimize the fight to some sort of high school or pickup game fistfight is stupid. for the above reason.
good point. i guess i'd probably try to avoid those situations if possible, because i agree that they are both less than ideal.
what if in the second scenario i add that you actively and for no reason chased the highschooler through your neighborhood and it was only when you caught up with him that he started punching you? change or heart or still equally as scary as being a kid in high school with an old dude in a truck chasing you at night?
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they are both scary, because the other party is a stranger. you have no idea what he's thinking or what weapons he possesses.
the whole line of thinking where people try to minimize the fight to some sort of high school or pickup game fistfight is stupid. for the above reason.
good point. i guess i'd probably try to avoid those situations if possible, because i agree that they are both less than ideal.
what if in the second scenario i add that you actively and for no reason chased the highschooler through your neighborhood and it was only when you caught up with him that he started punching you? change or heart or still equally as scary as being a kid in high school with an old dude in a truck chasing you at night?
makes it more scary because then you feel like a huge dumbass and have to figure out how to explain what happened
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just got back from swimming pool (cico). there was a highschool chick there. kind of small tits but nice legs/ass. i walked over to her and was like "hey what are you doing here?". she looked at me funny then walked away. i obviously followed her. again i was like "hey stop. what are you doing here. stop." she didn't stop so i kept following her. she went over to the high dive so i just followed her right up. she jumped. i jumped. she swam to the side of the pool super quick and in a weird way like a rough ridin' shark was chasing her or something. so weird. anyway i just swam after her. again with the ass. anyway, when i got out of the pool her boyfriend or some guy was there and he was like "wft bro and pushed me". luckily my pool bag was like five feet away and i had my gun in it. i grabbed the gun and shot and killed him. kids these days i swear.
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just got back from swimming pool (cico). there was a highschool chick there. kind of small tits but nice legs/ass. i walked over to her and was like "hey what are you doing here?". she looked at me funny then walked away. i obviously followed her. again i was like "hey stop. what are you doing here. stop." she didn't stop so i kept following her. she went over to the high dive so i just followed her right up. she jumped. i jumped. she swam to the side of the pool super quick and in a weird way like a rough ridin' shark was chasing her or something. so weird. anyway i just swam after her. again with the ass. anyway, when i got out of the pool her boyfriend or some guy was there and he was like "wft bro and pushed me". luckily my pool bag was like five feet away and i had my gun in it. i grabbed the gun and shot and killed him. kids these days i swear.
I just sent this to the NRA so they can publish it with all the other firearm self defense success stories. Good job Rick Hero.
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what if in the second scenario i add that you actively and for no reason chased the highschooler through your neighborhood and it was only when you caught up with him that he started punching you? change or heart or still equally as scary as being a kid in high school with an old dude in a truck chasing you at night?
less scary, because you started the fight. that makes it less likely that he is inclined to unusual aggression and less likely that he is carrying a weapon.
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they are both scary, because the other party is a stranger. you have no idea what he's thinking or what weapons he possesses.
the whole line of thinking where people try to minimize the fight to some sort of high school or pickup game fistfight is stupid. for the above reason.
What about minimizing the fight because the defendant caused it?
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I'm thinking Martin could have probably taken Zimmerman in a foot race and if he was really that scared would have choose to do so.Maybe he was more interested in seeing what the creepy ass cracker wanted.
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What about minimizing the fight because the defendant caused it?
i think the defendant says he didn't. if you assume he did, then you can also assume that the fight was less scary for him.
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just got back from swimming pool (cico). there was a highschool chick there. kind of small tits but nice legs/ass. i walked over to her and was like "hey what are you doing here?". she looked at me funny then walked away. i obviously followed her. again i was like "hey stop. what are you doing here. stop." she didn't stop so i kept following her. she went over to the high dive so i just followed her right up. she jumped. i jumped. she swam to the side of the pool super quick and in a weird way like a rough ridin' shark was chasing her or something. so weird. anyway i just swam after her. again with the ass. anyway, when i got out of the pool her boyfriend or some guy was there and he was like "wft bro and pushed me". luckily my pool bag was like five feet away and i had my gun in it. i grabbed the gun and shot and killed him. kids these days i swear.
but the filly tho?
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What about minimizing the fight because the defendant caused it?
i think the defendant says he didn't. if you assume he did, then you can also assume that the fight was less scary for him.
So we're going to ignore what we know about the pursuit as fact because of what the defendant said he did or didn't do?
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The kid is less of a stranger to the adult than vice versa because the adult gained slight familiarity with the kid by observing/following/chasing/stalking him for a bit.
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What about minimizing the fight because the defendant caused it?
i think the defendant says he didn't. if you assume he did, then you can also assume that the fight was less scary for him.
So we're going to ignore what we know about the pursuit as fact because of what the defendant said he did or didn't do?
what do we know about the pursuit other than what zimmerman claims?
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What about minimizing the fight because the defendant caused it?
i think the defendant says he didn't. if you assume he did, then you can also assume that the fight was less scary for him.
So we're going to ignore what we know about the pursuit as fact because of what the defendant said he did or didn't do?
what do we know about the pursuit other than what zimmerman claims?
That he's a gun psycho with a vigilante complex who constantly calls 911 and racially profiles innocent kids.
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Jury wants clarification on manslaughter charge. I think this means murder is pretty much off the table. As for manslaughter, they're either leaning that way, or there's a holdout who wants manslaughter as a compromise. Either way, not good for GZ.
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Jury wants clarification on manslaughter charge. I think this means murder is pretty much off the table. As for manslaughter, they're either leaning that way, or there's a holdout who wants manslaughter as a compromise. Either way, not good for GZ.
:dance: :billdance:
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
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Jury wants clarification on manslaughter charge. I think this means murder is pretty much off the table. As for manslaughter, they're either leaning that way, or there's a holdout who wants manslaughter as a compromise. Either way, not good for GZ.
Simply means that Murder 2 is off the table, now they will decide on Manslaughter. It's positive for the defense.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
Well he did slaughter an unarmed man so...
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Jury wants clarification on manslaughter charge. I think this means murder is pretty much off the table. As for manslaughter, they're either leaning that way, or there's a holdout who wants manslaughter as a compromise. Either way, not good for GZ.
Simply means that Murder 2 is off the table, now they will decide on Manslaughter. It's positive for the defense.
I doubt it. The jury doesn't even need to consider manslaughter unless they have rejected self defense. So, best case scenario for GZ is that they're idiots who don't understand the law, or there's a holdout who wants a compromise, and neither is very encouraging. Worst case is that they've ruled out self defense.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
A) you don't know that they don't know that.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
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The jury didn't specify what they need to know about manslaughter, so now the attorneys are trying to agree on a question back to them. :lol:
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and ksuwildcats makes a violent u-turn switching his what the law states only talking point to a what it actually means to this poor sap and why it's not fair talking point.
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and ksuwildcats makes a violent u-turn switching his what the law states only talking point to a what it actually means to this poor sap and why it's not fair talking point.
I think I expressed concern about the jury about 10 pages ago. K thnx.
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Who won you guys? :dunno:
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Who won you guys? :dunno:
well, not trayvon martin
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
the law allows for "compromise verdicts".
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
the law allows for "compromise verdicts".
well obviously that part of the law isn't fair
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Completely out of context, but lol:
https://vine.co/v/hZvXX9nTmK2
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Not specific to this case, but I've always found it weird that the term "manslaughter" is for a lesser offense than "murder." Like "slaughtering a man" feels like an extra mumped up beyond murder.
Not as bad as quarterback/halfback/fullback.
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Completely out of context, but lol:
https://vine.co/v/hZvXX9nTmK2
lol wut
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Not as bad as quarterback/halfback/fullback.
yes, this is straight out of retardville and mumped with tiny lil steve dave's mind for years until he just gave up and accepted it
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Not as bad as quarterback/halfback/fullback.
yes, this is straight out of retardville and mumped with tiny lil steve dave's mind for years until he just gave up and accepted it
I want gE to become big enough that we can make it right. Like, in 12-15 years maybe?
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Completely out of context, but lol:
https://vine.co/v/hZvXX9nTmK2
lol wut
She was quoting what Zimmerman said on the 911 call. She even prefaced it by warning the viewers she was about to quote it.
But it's a lot funnier the way I cut it.
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Completely out of context, but lol:
https://vine.co/v/hZvXX9nTmK2
lol wut
She was quoting what Zimmerman said on the 911 call. She even prefaced it by warning the viewers she was about to quote it.
But it's a lot funnier the way I cut it.
yes, absolutely
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Not specific to this case, but I've always found it weird that the term "manslaughter" is for a lesser offense than "murder." Like "slaughtering a man" feels like an extra mumped up beyond murder.
Not as bad as quarterback/halfback/fullback.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am5Pq1SuddQ (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Am5Pq1SuddQ)
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So we're going to ignore what we know about the pursuit as fact because of what the defendant said he did or didn't do?
i don't know anything about the pursuit. what is it that you claim to know that falsifies the defendant's story?
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
setting aside my own controversial views on juries in general, what exactly do you find unfair about "compromise verdicts?"
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
setting aside my own controversial views on juries in general, what exactly do you find unfair about "compromise verdicts?"
He just finds it unfair when it punishes his guy.
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The guy should absolutely get manslaughter
What the jury doesn't know is that in FL, the sentencing for manslaughter with a gun is basically the same as for second degree murder. Talking 20 to 30 years. That's why a compromise verdict would be especially outrageous in this case.
B) it's not their job to decide how long he should be in jail. their only job is to decide whether he's guilty of a crime based on the definition set forth in the statute.
Exactly. But there is a real risk that the jury may "compromise" with a holdout by voting manslaughter if they think it's a more typical 3-5 year sentence. Manslaughter doesn't sound nearly as bad as murder, and it usually isn't, but FL law is different. Which is why I said that a compromise guilty verdict would be especially bad in this case.
that's a risk you take when you shoot someone with a gun.
ksuwildcats has turned to "the law's not fair" from his previous stance of "he has a legal right to shoot the kid".
The law is perfectly fair. A compromise verdict is not. No matter how weak the state's case, the jury is always the wild card.
setting aside my own controversial views on juries in general, what exactly do you find unfair about "compromise verdicts?"
The jury is instructed that they must consider each charge independently, and must reach a unanimous verdict on each charge. A compromise verdict violates both these principles, and thus violates the defendant's right to due process of law.
Just as an example, as one court puts it:
a compromise verdict is a "verdict which is reached only by the surrender of conscientious convictions upon one material issue by some jurors in return for a relinquishment by others of their like settled opinion upon another issue and the result is one which does not command the approval of the whole panel," and, as such, is not permitted.
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he walks
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Oh man
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Man, K-S-U-Wildcats should have gone to law school.
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Good
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this crap cray
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ksuwildcats just popped a bottle of champagne
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Can't say I'm gonna feel bad when someone doles out some vigilante street justice.
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Can't say I'm gonna feel bad when someone doles out some vigilante street justice.
no one is going to do anything
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The lesson we all learned here is that if you want to murder your kid, or someone else's, move to Florida.
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The lesson we all learned here is that if you want to murder your kid, or someone else's, move to Florida.
he would have been innocent in like every state. get a clue.
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They shouldn't have gotten so cocky after OJ. This was payback.
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Whites win! Whites win, again!
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Whites win! Whites win, again!
mexicans
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ksuwildcats just popped a bottle of champagne
Nah, I'm gonna go loot some stores and maybe set a car on fire.
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Man. GZ is so lucky no one saw him stalk and murder that innocent kid.
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:opcat:
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At least take his gun away. He will stalk and shoot another teenager
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really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
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At least take his gun away. He will stalk and shoot another teenager
Stay safe, Winters!
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well, from a legal standpoint, there just wasn't enough evidence to overcome reasonable doubt.
from a moral standpoint, it's a rough ridin' tragedy this can happen in our society in 2013.
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well, from a legal standpoint, there just wasn't enough evidence to overcome reasonable doubt.
from a moral standpoint, it's a rough ridin' tragedy this can happen in our society in 2013.
:opcat:
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:drink: not guilty y'all gots to feel me
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:drink: not guilty y'all gots to feel me
You on a lake in Minnesota like I am?
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We've come so far.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fmsnbcmedia.msn.com%2Fj%2FMSNBC%2FComponents%2FPhoto%2F_new%2F120425-la-riots.photoblog600.jpg&hash=59576e233a57583adeac1f7a740d3662a55c5b3b)
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really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
We'll see if the jurors talk. I'm betting there was one holdout for manslaughter, and they sent the question to appease her. When the court asked "what, specifically, do you need clarification on?" she folded. Ome juror was reportedly quite emotional leaving the courthouse. Pure speculation though.
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really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
We'll see if the jurors talk. I'm betting there was one holdout for manslaughter, and they sent the question to appease her. When the court asked "what, specifically, do you need clarification on?" she folded. Ome juror was reportedly quite emotional leaving the courthouse. Pure speculation though.
She should be, she let a guy who killed an innocent teenager walk free with zero consequences.
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really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
We'll see if the jurors talk. I'm betting there was one holdout for manslaughter, and they sent the question to appease her. When the court asked "what, specifically, do you need clarification on?" she folded. Ome juror was reportedly quite emotional leaving the courthouse. Pure speculation though.
She should be, she let a guy who killed an innocent teenager walk free with zero consequences.
Zero jail time. I wouldn't say zero consequences, tho.
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GZ will be back on patrol. He will do this, or at least beat a woman, again.
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:dance:
really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
We'll see if the jurors talk. I'm betting there was one holdout for manslaughter, and they sent the question to appease her. When the court asked "what, specifically, do you need clarification on?" she folded. Ome juror was reportedly quite emotional leaving the courthouse. Pure speculation though.
You feeling good that the lil gold teeth street fighters killer got off?
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really interested to hear why the jury didn't follow up on the manslaughter request.
We'll see if the jurors talk. I'm betting there was one holdout for manslaughter, and they sent the question to appease her. When the court asked "what, specifically, do you need clarification on?" she folded. Ome juror was reportedly quite emotional leaving the courthouse. Pure speculation though.
She should be, she let a guy who killed an innocent teenager walk free with zero consequences.
Zero jail time. I wouldn't say zero consequences, tho.
Good. He's earned himself a shitload of consequences.
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State should've trotted out Weber for this presser.
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Just bought stock in Skittles and Arizona iced tea!
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Guy has a right to a trial by his peers, he got it and not guilty so that's that.
Still think he should have taken the rap but its the most fair system there is.
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Wouldn't be surprised if he got shot in the next 2 years
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Wouldn't be surprised if he got shot in the next 2 years
Well, if he's being followed by someone then he probably will have deserved it.
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Wouldn't be surprised if he got shot in the next 2 years
Oh man, imagine the inner conflict weirdo gun nuts will have.
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Wouldn't be surprised if he got shot in the next 2 years
Same. Im moving out of the country tonight if im GZ
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West and O'Mara doing an endzone dive in this presser.
:moreira:
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Wouldn't be surprised if he got shot in the next 2 years
Well, if he's being followed by someone then he probably will have deserved it.
that would be great
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West and O'Mara doing an endzone dive in this presser.
:moreira:
Knock Knock joke Walter White defender guy is gonna blow a bunch of coke and eff mad bitches tonight.
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http://www.naacp.org/page/s/doj-civil-rights-petition?source=GZnotguiltyshareFB&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=GZnotguiltyshareFB&utm_content=share
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O'Mara's analogy of the media being like a mad scientist operating on GZ without anesthetic was a reeeeal stretch.
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http://www.naacp.org/page/s/doj-civil-rights-petition?source=GZnotguiltyshareFB&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_campaign=GZnotguiltyshareFB&utm_content=share
DOJ already looked at it and said there wasn't a racially biased problem. Nothing to see here, Holder said.
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O'Mara's analogy of the media being like a mad scientist operating on GZ without anesthetic was a reeeeal stretch.
yeah they just need to shut the eff up and stop with the victory laps.
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O'Mara's analogy of the media being like a mad scientist operating on GZ without anesthetic was a reeeeal stretch.
yeah they just need to shut the eff up and stop with the victory laps.
Yeah. It's hard to ask for everyone to be peaceful and stay calm when you rub their noses in it for a half hour afterward.
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I thought O'Mara was fair and prudent in his remarks.
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I thought O'Mara was fair and prudent in his remarks.
I agree. West seems like a complete bad person, though. And what was with the state's lady grinning through her whole press conference? Was weird.
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i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.
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I thought O'Mara was fair and prudent in his remarks.
I agree. West seems like a complete bad person, though. And what was with the state's lady grinning through her whole press conference? Was weird.
West is definitely an odd duck. And yes, the tone of the State's press conference was very weird.
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There shouldn't be any pressers. It's not the Super Bowl.
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i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.
Technically, Zimmerman's Caucasian. Hispanic is an ethnicity, not a race.
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i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.
Racial profiling still happened, dumbass. So yeah. People are gonna talk about it.
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George's brother is on Piers Morgan right now giving a very candid interview. Getting a little tense but very some solid conversational volleying going on here.
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George's brother is on Piers Morgan right now giving a very candid interview. Getting a little tense but very some solid conversational volleying going on here.
His brother is a pretty impressive communicator. I wonder what he does for a living. On an unrelated note, O'Mara comes away from this trial looking fantastic.
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i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.
Racial profiling still happened, dumbass. So yeah. People are gonna talk about it.
that has nothing to do with why the jury didn't find him guilty you rough ridin' idiot.
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Zimmerman's life will be far better than it would have been if he hadn't shot Trayvon. Hard to dispute this.
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Zimmerman's life will be far better than it would have been if he hadn't shot Trayvon. Hard to dispute this.
I'm predicting some slander and defamation lawsuits coming up pretty soon
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Book deal, FSN's first original feature film, commemorative engraved pistols, paid inspirational speaking engagements. Hero fantasy ultimately fulfilled.
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George's brother is on Piers Morgan right now giving a very candid interview. Getting a little tense but very some solid conversational volleying going on here.
Piers asked stupid questions and Z had to answer them as best as he could... it was pretty one sided
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George's brother is on Piers Morgan right now giving a very candid interview. Getting a little tense but very some solid conversational volleying going on here.
Piers asked stupid questions and Z had to answer them as best as he could... it was pretty one sided
I found it touching when his brother talked about how george mentored two young black kids whose father was in prison for murder, even after the program was ended. I don't think that had ever been reported.
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Whites win! Whites win, again!
mexicans
White Hispanics basically got promoted to the US premier league. Big day for them.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
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Zimmerman's life will be far better than it would have been if he hadn't shot Trayvon. Hard to dispute this.
it's hard to dispute most inane comments based on nothing but conjecture.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
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just so people stop saying stupid stuff about hispanics, race and zimmerman. hispanic is an ethnicity (only kinda, sorta, but it's used as if it was) and a hispanic can be of any race. white hispanic is a perfectly rational, accurate term, but it isn't what zimmerman is. zimmerman is half white (german), half hispanic (peruvian). looking at him, he looks like his mother was mestizo, but according to wikipedia his maternal lineage included african ancestors.
anyways, saying he's a white hispanic is basically inaccurate.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
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just so people stop saying stupid stuff about hispanics, race and zimmerman. hispanic is an ethnicity (only kinda, sorta, but it's used as if it was) and a hispanic can be of any race. white hispanic is a perfectly rational, accurate term, but it isn't what zimmerman is. zimmerman is half white (german), half hispanic (peruvian). looking at him, he looks like his mother was mestizo, but according to wikipedia his maternal lineage included african ancestors.
anyways, saying he's a white hispanic is basically inaccurate.
The shoe fits.
But yeah you're right.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
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If you operate under a false premise, you can reach whatever conclusion you desire. Step 2, scream RACIST!
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
Truth, One of my major problems with the English legal system is the variance of sentences and parole. Why these crimes have such ridiculously variable sentences is pathetic. That some guys can get sentenced for 40 and do 5 is pretty ridiculous.
Lawyers love the system because they can charge more fees and play the game.
Sir we are charging you with a crime that will get you 40 years max unless you plea and you get 15 instead.
Okay I plea.
Justice!!!!
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
Truth, One of my major problems with the English legal system is the variance of sentences and parole. Why these crimes have such ridiculously variable sentences is pathetic. That some guys can get sentenced for 40 and do 5 is pretty ridiculous.
Lawyers love the system because they can charge more fees and play the game.
Sir we are charging you with a crime that will get you 40 years max unless you plea and you get 15 instead.
Okay I plea.
Justice!!!!
Brown
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Ts and Ps to the anti gun Zealots on this board. Horrible day for them.
fwiw I think Zimms should have got manslaughter at least.
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http://thesocietypages.org/socimages/2013/07/13/stand-your-ground-laws-increases-racial-bias-in-justifiable-homicide-trials/?fb_action_ids=10100103958942374&fb_action_types=og.likes&fb_source=other_multiline&action_object_map=%7B%2210100103958942374%22%3A1396035187277976%7D&action_type_map=%7B%2210100103958942374%22%3A%22og.likes%22%7D&action_ref_map=%5B%5D
"It’s simple: stand your ground laws increase the chances that a homicide will be considered justifiable because it gives the jurors more leeway to give defendants the benefit of the doubt. But, jurors will likely give that benefit of the doubt to certain kinds of defendants and not others. Stand your ground may or may not be a good law in theory but, in practice, it increases racial bias in legal outcomes."
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Lost interest at "jurors will likely give".
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just so people stop saying stupid stuff about hispanics, race and zimmerman. hispanic is an ethnicity (only kinda, sorta, but it's used as if it was) and a hispanic can be of any race. white hispanic is a perfectly rational, accurate term, but it isn't what zimmerman is. zimmerman is half white (german), half hispanic (peruvian). looking at him, he looks like his mother was mestizo, but according to wikipedia his maternal lineage included african ancestors.
anyways, saying he's a white hispanic is basically inaccurate.
Quasi-luked......
Actually, the federal government does it's criminal statistics on race as:
1. Caucasian
2. Black
3. Asian
4. Native American
5. Etc..
The only ethnicity they ask about is whether someone is hispanic.
Just a thought, but maybe the white offenders get lesser sentences because it isn't their 14th time in front of the judge?
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A lot of people are very bitter about this result, and that's to be expected. From a legal standpoint, the state never had more than a prayer of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ didn't act in self defense. They're only hope was to confuse the jurors and play on their emotions, and that's a sad indictment of our justice system. Thankfully, the jury reached the correct result, which is an affirmation of our justice system.
As to the larger debate, many will continue to hold up Trayvon as some sort of martyr (the whole "skittles and iced tea" bit), despite the many indications to the contrary. Maybe GZ was an "overzealous, wannabe cop", and true, the whole situation could have been avoided if he had not approached Trayvon, but simply approaching Trayvon and asking "what are you doing here?" should not have resulted in a fist fight.
Who started the phyiscal fight? Was it GZ, the guy who had just called the police, or was it Trayvon, the troubled teenager with a recent history of behavioral issues; who had been suspended on multiple occassions in the prior months for fighting and drugs, who boasted about that fighting, and who had been kicked out of his mother's house for these issues, who saw a "creepy ass cracker" following him, but instead of returning home, hung out outside for over 4 minutes, not exactly the actions of a scared kid? I think given the totality of the circumstances, Trayvon popped GZ in the face, just as GZ said, and that's on Trayvon for escalating the confrontation into a physical fight.
It's a sad situation, but Trayvon the martyr? I don't buy it. Commence cries of racism, etc...
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"Maybe the whole situation could have been avoided"
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
Guns don't kill people, people with gun fetishes and vigilante dreams do
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
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I think GZ has a more extensive criminal record than TM. He is a woman beater
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I don't share all the same sentiments as Gary Younge's widely shared Guardian column, but I agree that this is the basis for any outrage:
"the truth remains that Martin's heart would still be beating if Zimmerman had not chased him down and shot him."
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I think the only thing that is iron clad established is that George Zimmerman is an enormous coward masquerading as a tough guy.
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just so people stop saying stupid stuff about hispanics, race and zimmerman. hispanic is an ethnicity (only kinda, sorta, but it's used as if it was) and a hispanic can be of any race. white hispanic is a perfectly rational, accurate term, but it isn't what zimmerman is. zimmerman is half white (german), half hispanic (peruvian). looking at him, he looks like his mother was mestizo, but according to wikipedia his maternal lineage included african ancestors.
anyways, saying he's a white hispanic is basically inaccurate.
Quasi-luked......
Actually, the federal government does it's criminal statistics on race as:
1. Caucasian
2. Black
3. Asian
4. Native American
5. Etc..
The only ethnicity they ask about is whether someone is hispanic.
Just a thought, but maybe the white offenders get lesser sentences because it isn't their 14th time in front of the judge?
This black Fl woman got twenty years for firing a warning shot in an abusive situation. It was her first time to be involved with the law.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/324906/19/Fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots
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I don't share all the same sentiments as Gary Younge's widely shared Guardian column, but I agree that this is the basis for any outrage:
"the truth remains that Martin's heart would still be beating if Zimmerman had not chased him down and shot him."
No, he was a gangbanger and would've been shot dead within a week anyway.
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just so people stop saying stupid stuff about hispanics, race and zimmerman. hispanic is an ethnicity (only kinda, sorta, but it's used as if it was) and a hispanic can be of any race. white hispanic is a perfectly rational, accurate term, but it isn't what zimmerman is. zimmerman is half white (german), half hispanic (peruvian). looking at him, he looks like his mother was mestizo, but according to wikipedia his maternal lineage included african ancestors.
anyways, saying he's a white hispanic is basically inaccurate.
Quasi-luked......
Actually, the federal government does it's criminal statistics on race as:
1. Caucasian
2. Black
3. Asian
4. Native American
5. Etc..
The only ethnicity they ask about is whether someone is hispanic.
Just a thought, but maybe the white offenders get lesser sentences because it isn't their 14th time in front of the judge?
This black Fl woman got twenty years for firing a warning shot in an abusive situation. It was her first time to be involved with the law.
http://www.wtsp.com/news/article/324906/19/Fla-mom-gets-20-years-for-firing-warning-shots
Headinluke. Already covered this bruh.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
-
Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
-
I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
-
Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
Racism will always exist, and within every race. To discount it exists is not my point. My point is that racism plays one part, and I would argue it accounts for a very small percentage of the differences in "statistics" such as those linked. Why aren't asians on that graph? Why aren't native americans on that graph? Mark twain probably has the perfect answer for those questions.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
Why do people do the "if race weren't an issue no one would care" thing? Of course. No crap. But race is very much an issue here, and rightfully so. An unarmed and innocent black teenager can defend himself from a psycho with a gun, be killed, and then be vilified while his (non-black) murderer walks.
-
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?
-
I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
I think if Zimmerman shot a white kid and everything else went down exactly as it went down for real, it would still be a major story.
-
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?
I'm not interested in this bread crumb conversation. To jump to the conclusion that one influence, in this case racism, is wholly to blame is asinine. You're free to think otherwise.
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I think the sentences issued for similar crimes would be more indicative of racism.
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This thread should be moved to the birther pit.
-
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?
I'm not interested in this bread crumb conversation. To jump to the conclusion that one influence, in this case racism, is wholly to blame is asinine. You're free to think otherwise.
Why is it asinine? Can you name any influence that had more of an impact? Or are you arguing that if blacks had gotten a fair shake in this country from day one that they would still have higher incarceration rates?
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
The Jodi Arias case had a Lifetime movie in production before it even ended. Any number of things can lead to disproportionate coverage, including a case in Florida, which already had heat on it for being weird as eff, involving a kid walking home and getting shot by the neighborhood watchman.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
Racism will always exist, and within every race. To discount it exists is not my point. My point is that racism plays one part, and I would argue it accounts for a very small percentage of the differences in "statistics" such as those linked. Why aren't asians on that graph? Why aren't native americans on that graph? Mark twain probably has the perfect answer for those questions.
The disparity in sentences can't be attributed to "Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah" as a judge would never use that criteria when sentencing a convicted defendant.
I take it you're ignorant of the sentencing guidelines that have been put into place because of the drug war as it pertains to crack versus cocaine.
Think about that, and then think about which communities each drug is prevalent in.
I also recommend watching the American Drug War:The Last White Hope by Kevin Booth.
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Headinjun dropping some science right here, gang.
-
I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
I think if Zimmerman shot a white kid and everything else went down exactly as it went down for real, it would still be a major story.
I don't think he would have been charged if it had been a white kid.
-
I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I'd agree that gun rights and self-defense vs murder/manslaughter should be the bigger issues here, but race is the only reason this case got as much attention as it did. People get shot and murdered every day in this country so it takes something like racist implications to draw such a huge amount of coverage. If Zimmerman and Martin were both black or both white nobody cares.
I think if Zimmerman shot a white kid and everything else went down exactly as it went down for real, it would still be a major story.
I don't think he would have been charged if it had been a white kid.
:lol:
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
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I think you're right. But I also don't think the case was "highjacked" by the civil rights community. They were right in giving it as much attention as they did. Racial profiling, an issue that they have been fighting against forever, played an undeniable role as the inciting incident that killed an innocent black child.
And you know what? They were right to be up in arms. Seems like they knew nothing was going to come of it...and they were right.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
Racism will always exist, and within every race. To discount it exists is not my point. My point is that racism plays one part, and I would argue it accounts for a very small percentage of the differences in "statistics" such as those linked. Why aren't asians on that graph? Why aren't native americans on that graph? Mark twain probably has the perfect answer for those questions.
The disparity in sentences can't be attributed to "Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah" as a judge would never use that criteria when sentencing a convicted defendant.
I take it you're ignorant of the sentencing guidelines that have been put into place because of the drug war as it pertains to crack versus cocaine.
Think about that, and then think about which communities each drug is prevalent in.
I also recommend watching the American Drug War:The Last White Hope by Kevin Booth.
Yes, judges do use such inputs in sentencing, to doubt that shows a grave misunderstanding of the legal system. You've not provided any statistics on disparity of sentencing based on race. This seems to show the disparity quite well:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/
Fact 8, if true. However, yet again, racism is not the sole component. To what percentage it influences such inconsistencies is impossible to gauge, making this a theoretical discussion. So, feel free to tout ignorance and what have you, it's simply not the case.
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What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?
I'm not interested in this bread crumb conversation. To jump to the conclusion that one influence, in this case racism, is wholly to blame is asinine. You're free to think otherwise.
Why is it asinine? Can you name any influence that had more of an impact? Or are you arguing that if blacks had gotten a fair shake in this country from day one that they would still have higher incarceration rates?
So which is it? First you imply it's reasonable to blame the disparity wholly on racism, then you ask what had MORE of an impact? It's asinine to say one factor has 100% of the influence. Which is obvious to anyone with a pulse.
Then we move on to the historical point of view. If we're discussing whether past racism has influenced black culture the answer is clearly yes. And in my opinion has a lot to do with the disparities we're discussing. My opinion, and only an opinion, is that past discretions cannot justify current actions. Responsibility is necessary, whether for an individual, a culture or race, or a society.
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What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
And why do you think the things you listed are different asking different races?
I'm not interested in this bread crumb conversation. To jump to the conclusion that one influence, in this case racism, is wholly to blame is asinine. You're free to think otherwise.
Why is it asinine? Can you name any influence that had more of an impact? Or are you arguing that if blacks had gotten a fair shake in this country from day one that they would still have higher incarceration rates?
So which is it? First you imply it's reasonable to blame the disparity wholly on racism, then you ask what had MORE of an impact? It's asinine to say one factor has 100% of the influence. Which is obvious to anyone with a pulse.
true, I misspoke. racism isn't the only factor, it is just the largest factor. it is asinine to think it's the only factor.
Then we move on to the historical point of view. If we're discussing whether past racism has influenced black culture the answer is clearly yes. And in my opinion has a lot to do with the disparities we're discussing. My opinion, and only an opinion, is that past discretions cannot justify current actions. Responsibility is necessary, whether for an individual, a culture or race, or a society.
Yeah, blacks are clearly a less responsible race. We can't ignore that.
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Exactly, that was the conclusion I was going for.
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The Derp in this thread is reaching level 10.
Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.
Everything points to Zimmerman being not guilty. There isn't any evidence saying otherwise. If you fools want a court system dominated by public opinion and emotion feel free to catch the next flight to a 3rd world crap hole.
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The Derp in this thread is reaching level 10.
Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.
Everything points to Zimmerman being not guilty. There isn't any evidence saying otherwise. If you fools want a court system dominated by public opinion and emotion feel free to catch the next flight to a 3rd world crap hole.
the herp derp thing is overdone
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Has Zimmerman been killed yet?
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my favorite part of this thread has been how desperate skinnybenny has been for someone to acknowledge that he is outraged by anything and everything about this case. good job, everyone, in not acknowledging mr. benny.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Poverty.
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my favorite part of this thread has been how desperate skinnybenny has been for someone to acknowledge that he is outraged by anything and everything about this case. good job, everyone, in not acknowledging mr. benny.
:eek:
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You just acknowledged me :excited:
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You just acknowledged me :excited:
:emawkid: 'grats SB
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Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.
Good gE'rs fact-check posts like this.
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You just acknowledged me :excited:
:grin:
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Zimmerman was found not guilty. He was prosecuted by the very best homicide prosecutors in the State of Florida. Literally the best. The lead had won something crazy like 79/81 homicide cases he has worked. 97.5% success rate. Zimmerman was defended Pro-bono by a divorce lawyer that graduated from UCF.
Good gE'rs fact-check posts like this.
:surprised: Man, crap is getting really real around here.
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Good to know you can still shoot someone trying to kill you. #thanksgz
The only other thing I've learned in all of this is that black people honestly believe the justice system is out to get them. I thought this belief was limited to high school pot heads.#themoreyouknow
such a shocker that you're in the bag for team Z.
Look up incarceration rates and sentencing lengths and tell me with a straight face that they don't have a point.
They don't have a point.
:blank:
Placing blame on others is a hallmark of weakness.
If a black male and a white male commit the same crime and the white male gets a considerably lesser sentence then there is a problem.
Happens all the time and I witnessed it in my short stint as a youth.
I'm open to changing my mind, but waxing poetic isn't going to do it. Do you have actual facts?
http://www.prisonpolicy.org/graphs/raceinc.html
Aren't these stats pretty much common knowledge???
Well no, obviously, but most would assume them to be somewhat accurate. They don't prove anything though so, keep searching. To assume that it's simply bias/racism/whatever excuse rather than exploring the cultural influences is foolish.
What "cultural influence" would you find that had more of an effect than racism?
Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah
Racism will always exist, and within every race. To discount it exists is not my point. My point is that racism plays one part, and I would argue it accounts for a very small percentage of the differences in "statistics" such as those linked. Why aren't asians on that graph? Why aren't native americans on that graph? Mark twain probably has the perfect answer for those questions.
The disparity in sentences can't be attributed to "Education levels, 2 parent families, cultural values, blah blah blah" as a judge would never use that criteria when sentencing a convicted defendant.
I take it you're ignorant of the sentencing guidelines that have been put into place because of the drug war as it pertains to crack versus cocaine.
Think about that, and then think about which communities each drug is prevalent in.
I also recommend watching the American Drug War:The Last White Hope by Kevin Booth.
Yes, judges do use such inputs in sentencing, to doubt that shows a grave misunderstanding of the legal system. You've not provided any statistics on disparity of sentencing based on race. This seems to show the disparity quite well:
http://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/
Fact 8, if true. However, yet again, racism is not the sole component. To what percentage it influences such inconsistencies is impossible to gauge, making this a theoretical discussion. So, feel free to tout ignorance and what have you, it's simply not the case.
I was going to use the same source..
Are you in the there's no racism anymore camp?
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Exactly, that was the conclusion I was going for.
Then why dance around and act as if it's not significant?
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http://hosienation.com/2013/07/14/justice-deferred/
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Yes, the "stand your ground" laws passed by the NRA make it much, much harder to prosecute for murder. Thanks Charlton Heston!
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i'm getting pissed that people continue to talk about race, zimmerman isn't white.
Pro-tip: white people aren't the only racists.
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
It really amazes me how casual all of Europe is about their racism.
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
Roommate is Italian, from the east coast. I make lots of comments about Italians he thinks are racist. East coast has kept their cultural identity among the separate European cultures inside of cities. He gets really mad at things named after mafia characters, restaurants in particular, and thinks its really racist. His parents are hilariously east coast Italian though, mom wears leopard print coats, smokes a lot, is incredibly overbearing on him ("joohnny you aren't getting enough food, you need to eat more!"). As a kid, he would get presents from his cousins that "fell off the back of a truck". I find the stories really fun.
He also talks a lot about not liking black people, not all of them though, just the thugs :rolleyes:.
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html)
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html)
omg :lol:
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Wow
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Are Italians considered white? Because they're comically racist. Can "real" whites still be racist against Italians if so? Because it would probably be a downer to see it downgraded to something fickle like prejudice.
Were you talking about this? Because I've always thought they were horribly racist, but this is a new low.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html (http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2013/07/2013715132119761130.html)
Yep. Italy is Serie A racism.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
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Italians have the Roman complex of superiority
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
You guys would have let OJ go free.
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Drove past WuShock U on my way to my weekly Ultimate pick-up (PM if interested in the wichita area, mondays at 6) and there were 100 people holding signs on the corner across from Koch Arena and shouting... i think i F'd up a photo Op, because they were all really animated and right up on the curb i was turning on... i was confused because i didn't know if i was going to hit any of them so i kinda slowed down rolling by and there were cameras across the street. They seemed really pissed off about TM, whom i never knew was murdered by Wichita State officials, or at least i think thats why they were all gathered there. Really disturbing.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
You guys would have let OJ go free.
No, would've convicted on that one too.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
You guys would have let OJ go free.
No, would've convicted on that one too.
you would have convicted GZ?
I understand wanting to but under the law seems like it was pretty straight forward.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME
Oh MS, you never cease to amaze me.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
You guys would have let OJ go free.
No, would've convicted on that one too.
you would have convicted GZ?
I understand wanting to but under the law seems like it was pretty straight forward.
The law allows for a jury to interpret it any way they want, though.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
yeah, her agent probably told her a book deal for an acquittal was worth more than a book deal for a conviction.
You guys would have let OJ go free.
No, would've convicted on that one too.
you would have convicted GZ?
I understand wanting to but under the law seems like it was pretty straight forward.
I am very confident I could've corralled that group in to nullifying SYG.
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I watched a lot of the trial. For me, the key was the 4 minute gap. I think that was probably true for the jury too, because I was very biased going into trial.
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If I were a juror, I wouldn't even care what the law says. The guy is on trial for murder. He's obviously a horrible person, and he created the situation. Guilty. If I can't get everyone else to agree, hung jury. I'm not going to cast a vote that sends that bad person free.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
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The description the radio guys at 980 discussed today made it sound like either could have killed the other in that four min and both would have had pretty much the same defense.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
yeah
essentially, if you get in a fight in FL and are losing you can kill the other guy.
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Yep. No duty to try to flee if you feel your life is in danger.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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I think that trayvon's dad not identifying the voice was pretty big too.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
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This juror on CNN is doing a great job of representing #teamZimmerman
Did she give any info on the jury deliberations?
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
You said that a lot, then someone pointed out that Stand Your Ground was mentioned in the jury instructions and you seemed surprised and now you seem to be claiming that it had no effect again.
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I have been edified by K-S-U with respect to the laws involved, and I suggest you all open your minds a bit. SYG had nothing to do with the criminal proceedings. Don't be afraid to learn about the criminal justice system; it's much better than sounding like a dumbass when you wax dumbass based on your misconceptions.
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I have been edified by K-S-U with respect to the laws involved, and I suggest you all open your minds a bit. SYG had nothing to do with the criminal proceedings. Don't be afraid to learn about the criminal justice system; it's much better than sounding like a dumbass when you wax dumbass based on your misconceptions.
HTH dumbass
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in anyplace where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
SYG was in the jury instructions, therefore it was an issue in the Zimmerman trial.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/03/23-other-states-have-stand-your-ground-laws-too/50226/ (http://www.theatlanticwire.com/national/2012/03/23-other-states-have-stand-your-ground-laws-too/50226/)
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
You said that a lot, then someone pointed out that Stand Your Ground was mentioned in the jury instructions and you seemed surprised and now you seem to be claiming that it had no effect again.
That "someone" was me. The SYG portion was just a carryover from the standard jury instruction. I was surprised that the defense didn't try (maybe they did) to take that part out, since they never claimed SYG and it didn't fit with theri theory of the case.
Again, stand your ground had no application to this case. GZ claimed he couldn't retreat, and it is therefore irrelevant that he didn't have to retreat.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
What insane law are you referring to? I think it was a complete lack of evidence that got him off, honestly.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
SYG was in the jury instructions, therefore it was an issue in the Zimmerman trial.
You should stop pretending to be an attorney. You really don't know what you're talking about.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
What insane law are you referring to? I think it was a complete lack of evidence that got him off, honestly.
If you are a bleeding-heart liberal, all laws that you disagree with are insane.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
this doesn't make any eff damn sense. TRAY HAD A REASONABLE FEAR THAT HIS LIFE WAS IN DANGER SO HE USED SELF DEFENSE AGAINST THE WEIRDO CONFRONTING HIM AT NIGHT WITH A GUN.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
SYG was in the jury instructions, therefore it was an issue in the Zimmerman trial.
You should stop pretending to be an attorney. You really don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not "pretending to be an attorney." Maybe you are. I'd love your theory of how the jury instructions were irrelevant to the outcome when according to the juror granting an interview on CNN the jurors started split 3-3 and then "they read the jury instructions over and over" and then ended up acquitting.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
What insane law are you referring to? I think it was a complete lack of evidence that got him off, honestly.
the law is insane AND they had no evidence.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
What insane law are you referring to? I think it was a complete lack of evidence that got him off, honestly.
the law is insane AND they had no evidence.
Yeah, I agree that SYG is crazy, but there wasn't enough evidence to convict with or without it.
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Just seems like if the WHY isn't relevant, then last man standing goes free. Florida is Thunderdome.
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TM tried to stand his ground and got killed.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
What insane law are you referring to? I think it was a complete lack of evidence that got him off, honestly.
If you are a bleeding-heart liberal, all laws that you disagree with are insane.
I think it is crazy that you can pick fights, then after getting a few minor abrasions, shoot and kill someone and successfully claim that you were afraid of imminent harm/death, thus not guilty due to self-defense.
micat- juries can and should nullify unjust laws.
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Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
SYG was in the jury instructions, therefore it was an issue in the Zimmerman trial.
You should stop pretending to be an attorney. You really don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not "pretending to be an attorney." Maybe you are. I'd love your theory of how the jury instructions were irrelevant to the outcome when according to the juror granting an interview on CNN the jurors started split 3-3 and then "they read the jury instructions over and over" and then ended up acquitting.
I'll be very interested to see the interview. And I'm not pretending to be an attorney. I am an attorney.
The jury was instructed on self defense, and one aspect of self defense in Florida, and in many other states, is that you have no duty to retreat before acting in self defense. The jury was instructed accordingly. The SYG aspect of the instruction was irrelevant, however, because GZ claimed he was pinned under TM at the time of the shooting - hence no ability to retreat. If the two had been standing up at the time, then SYG would have been relevant. I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
Don't you have to attempt to retreat in KS? I mix up which ones are which.
No, you don't have a duty to retreat in KS before invoking self-defense. It all comes down to whether you have a reasonable fear. Regardless, SYG was not an issue in the Zimmerman trial because according to the defendant's story that TM was on top of him, he couldn't retreat anyway.
SYG was in the jury instructions, therefore it was an issue in the Zimmerman trial.
You should stop pretending to be an attorney. You really don't know what you're talking about.
I'm not "pretending to be an attorney." Maybe you are. I'd love your theory of how the jury instructions were irrelevant to the outcome when according to the juror granting an interview on CNN the jurors started split 3-3 and then "they read the jury instructions over and over" and then ended up acquitting.
I'll be very interested to see the interview. And I'm not pretending to be an attorney. I am an attorney. Congrats on the attorney thing. I actually meant "maybe you were an attorney."
The jury was instructed on self defense, and one aspect of self defense in Florida, and in many other states, is that you have no duty to retreat before acting in self defense. The jury was instructed accordingly. The SYG aspect of the instruction was irrelevant, however, because GZ claimed he was pinned under TM at the time of the shooting - hence no ability to retreat. If the two had been standing up at the time, then SYG would have been relevant. I'm not sure what part of this is difficult to understand.
Apparently it was super rough ridin' hard for the jury to understand.
Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
why don't you stick your head up my butt and fight for air
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
It does not even matter who instigates.
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Apparently it was super rough ridin' hard for the jury to understand.
Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
Well, I'll forgive the juror for mixing up her terminology. She's just talking about self defense. This was not an instance where the ability to retreat would even come into play. And if I were the judge, I would have nixed that portion of the instruction to avoid any confusion.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
It does not even matter who instigates.
It does matter, to a degree. It is possible, however, that you could instigate the fight, and the tables then turn to such an unexpected degree that you regain your right to self defense.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
Not necessarily. There's all kinds of evidence that could come into play to support or undercut the reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury. For example, if somebody runs at you with a knife, you could shoot him right there without suffering a scratch. If he just shouted at you, or maybe pushed you, you'll probably have a harder time justifying it. The investigators have to look for any evidence that might support or negate your story. In GZ's case, he had his injuries, plus the eye witness testimony of Good, who said that TM was on top, beating him.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
It does not even matter who instigates.
You can't prove who instigated it in this case. I personally think Zimmerman lied at worst or left out a lot of key details at best, but the evidence to contradict his story just wasn't there.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
it deserved a trial. regardless of who demanded it.
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Apparently it was super rough ridin' hard for the jury to understand.
Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
Well, I'll forgive the juror for mixing up her terminology. She's jsut talking about self defense. This was not an instance where the ability to retreat would even come into play.
Look. I think we are talking past each other.
First, I believe that a duty to retreat-- or at least a less expansive notion of what qualifies as a justification for the use of deadly force by both law enforcement and armed citizens-- would be an apt revision of self-defense laws throughout the country. That is my thought about first principles, not an argument on the case law.
Secondly, Stand your ground was discussed as part of the prosecution's theory of George Zimmerman's mindset on the night of the killing, it was in the jury's instructions, and it was specifically cited by the only person to so far come forth and describe the deliberations in the jury room. I think it is an open question whether or not she understood to what degree stand your ground had any application in the case. I think to argue it had no effect on the case is wrong.
All of that is significantly less important to me than further discussing the endless scenarios where people can instigate conflicts, then claim they were threatened with great bodily harm, then justifiably kill someone.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
pretty much this
It does not even matter who instigates.
You can't prove who instigated it in this case. I personally think Zimmerman lied at worst or left out a lot of key details at best, but the evidence to contradict his story just wasn't there.
The instigation is irrelevant. The standard for justifiable use of deadly force is:
"The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify
the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably
cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the
danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George
Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real."
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So when does this all die down? I mean, surely they won't slam the weight of the DOJ down on him. Right?
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the fact that that woman who fired into the wall is going to get 10 years or whatever it was is about 1000x more outrageous than zimmerman not getting convicted.
but of course, this is america. who cares about some innocent person being unjustly imprisoned when there's still someone left that we could conceivably put in prison walking free.
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The boss of the assistant state's attorneys did a real good job in her presser explaining that the murder charge against Zimmerman included his pursuit of, confronting of and eventual shooting of Martin. Would've been good to use in the trial.
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the fact that that woman who fired into the wall is going to get 10 years or whatever it was is about 1000x more outrageous than zimmerman not getting convicted.
but of course, this is america. who cares about some innocent person being unjustly imprisoned when there's still someone left that we could conceivably put in prison walking free.
I agree to a point. Not sure how to weigh 10 years as 1000x worse than a dead body.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
it deserved a trial. regardless of who demanded it.
It didn't originally go to trial because the state didn't believe it would get past a grand jury. They skipped a grand jury because of public pressure (a lot of which was from terrible media coverage), and will possibly be looking at ethics violations (or something, I have heard an investigation is starting).
Taking a case to court that won't pass a grand jury, and is only tried because of public pressure (and knowing that you will lose) does not sound like a case that deserved a trial.
Just my opinion.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME
Oh MS, you never cease to amaze me.
What a sack of garbage, he should stop trying so hard to impress white people around him. Yes jackass, using racist terms on a rough ridin' youtube is exactly what's going to help what you're bitching about. I hate black people who think all black people should beholden to some sort of rough ridin' crusade to "make us better." I don't see white people making videos calling the millions of other whites YOLOing their way through life crackers and peckerwoods.
Quite an ironic use of the term Uncle Tom by that cigar chomping, women's flea market sunglasses wearing piece of trash.
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the fact that that woman who fired into the wall is going to get 10 years or whatever it was is about 1000x more outrageous than zimmerman not getting convicted.
but of course, this is america. who cares about some innocent person being unjustly imprisoned when there's still someone left that we could conceivably put in prison walking free.
Is that the "warning shot" case? I do remember thinking there was something really bizarre about that conviction. Was it upheld on appeal or is that going on right now?
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
Witness and inconclusive audio, certainly you know this
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME
Oh MS, you never cease to amaze me.
What a sack of garbage, he should stop trying so hard to impress white people around him. Yes jackass, using racist terms on a rough ridin' youtube is exactly what's going to help what you're bitching about. I hate black people who think all black people should beholden to some sort of rough ridin' crusade to "make us better." I don't see white people making videos calling the millions of other whites YOLOing their way through life crackers and peckerwoods.
Quite an ironic use of the term Uncle Tom by that cigar chomping, women's flea market sunglasses wearing piece of trash.
Yeah, weird video.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
it deserved a trial. regardless of who demanded it.
It didn't originally go to trial because the state didn't believe it would get past a grand jury. They skipped a grand jury because of public pressure (a lot of which was from terrible media coverage), and will possibly be looking at ethics violations (or something, I have heard an investigation is starting).
Taking a case to court that won't pass a grand jury, and is only tried because of public pressure (and knowing that you will lose) does not sound like a case that deserved a trial.
Just my opinion.
I also had a huge problem with this. Skipping the GJ and going with the ridiculously misleading affidavit of probable cause. It was a purely political move, and Angela Corey should be brought up on ethics charges. She'll skate though.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/alan-dershowitz-vs-angela-corey-over-misleading-affidavit-of-probable-cause/ (http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/alan-dershowitz-vs-angela-corey-over-misleading-affidavit-of-probable-cause/)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME
Oh MS, you never cease to amaze me.
What a sack of garbage, he should stop trying so hard to impress white people around him. Yes jackass, using racist terms on a rough ridin' youtube is exactly what's going to help what you're bitching about. I hate black people who think all black people should beholden to some sort of rough ridin' crusade to "make us better." I don't see white people making videos calling the millions of other whites YOLOing their way through life crackers and peckerwoods.
Quite an ironic use of the term Uncle Tom by that cigar chomping, women's flea market sunglasses wearing piece of trash.
Don't feel bad, most minority groups do it.
"a schande vor de goyim" was a pretty epic allegation by Abbie Hoffman.
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
it deserved a trial. regardless of who demanded it.
It didn't originally go to trial because the state didn't believe it would get past a grand jury. They skipped a grand jury because of public pressure (a lot of which was from terrible media coverage), and will possibly be looking at ethics violations (or something, I have heard an investigation is starting).
Taking a case to court that won't pass a grand jury, and is only tried because of public pressure (and knowing that you will lose) does not sound like a case that deserved a trial.
Just my opinion.
I also had a huge problem with this. Skipping the GJ and going with the ridiculously misleading affidavit of probable cause. It was a purely political move, and Angela Corey should be brought up on ethics charges. She'll skate though.
http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/alan-dershowitz-vs-angela-corey-over-misleading-affidavit-of-probable-cause/ (http://legalinsurrection.com/2013/07/alan-dershowitz-vs-angela-corey-over-misleading-affidavit-of-probable-cause/)
I would actually agree that there may well have been prosecutorial misconduct. The defense raised a couple troubling allegations. Unfortunately, as you insinuate, prosecutorial misconduct is never pursued.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
Witness and inconclusive audio, certainly you know this
whether or not the audio was inconclusive is based on interpretation of testimony.
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the fact that that woman who fired into the wall is going to get 10 years or whatever it was is about 1000x more outrageous than zimmerman not getting convicted.
but of course, this is america. who cares about some innocent person being unjustly imprisoned when there's still someone left that we could conceivably put in prison walking free.
Is that the "warning shot" case? I do remember thinking there was something really bizarre about that conviction. Was it upheld on appeal or is that going on right now?
I just googled it and now I remember. The fact that she lost on SYG is actually not that surprising. She didn't have a duty to retreat, but she did retreat, was evidently in the clear, and then returned with the gun. So self defense is going to be a tough sell.
What was crazy is that she was convicted of attempted murder for what was pretty clearly a warning shot. Assault at best. Certainly not attempted murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
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Angela Corey should be brought up on ethics charges. She'll skate though.
What, did she start a fight with an unarmed kid and kill said kid when it turns out she was a really shitty fighter, or something? :confused:
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I think gun rights are the issue here, possibly more than race. Zimmerman was not properly trained to handle a firearm, and for that reason, I don't think he should have been allowed to have a concealed carry permit.
Zimmerman being a racist didn't kill Trayvon, his gun did.
I lean this way. I'm pretty sure Zimmerman would have shot a kid of any color.
I'm in this camp too, though sadly I think he was trained just as well as anyone who gets a concealed carry permit...which is to say very minimally. I have friends who have taken the concealed carry class and even they say the amount of "training" is equally laughable and frightening.
imo, the nra got really lucky that this case was hijacked by the civil rights community early on because, on it's face, it undeniably disproves the asinine argument that more guns equal safer law-abiding citizens.
Get the eff outta here, what does this even mean? It's not even true, it was a local grassroots effort & facebook campaign that made this story national & forced the SPD to do something, anything.
it deserved a trial. regardless of who demanded it.
It didn't originally go to trial because the state didn't believe it would get past a grand jury. They skipped a grand jury because of public pressure (a lot of which was from terrible media coverage), and will possibly be looking at ethics violations (or something, I have heard an investigation is starting).
Taking a case to court that won't pass a grand jury, and is only tried because of public pressure (and knowing that you will lose) does not sound like a case that deserved a trial.
Just my opinion.
The media coverage was fine. The grand jury issues and all issues after the trigger was pulled are directly attributable to the Sanford Police Department.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
Witness and inconclusive audio, certainly you know this
whether or not the audio was inconclusive is based on interpretation of testimony.
You mean the testimony where no one can definitively state who was screaming? Like I said, inconclusive.
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the fact that that woman who fired into the wall is going to get 10 years or whatever it was is about 1000x more outrageous than zimmerman not getting convicted.
but of course, this is america. who cares about some innocent person being unjustly imprisoned when there's still someone left that we could conceivably put in prison walking free.
Is that the "warning shot" case? I do remember thinking there was something really bizarre about that conviction. Was it upheld on appeal or is that going on right now?
I just googled it and now I remember. The fact that she lost on SYG is actually not that surprising. She didn't have a duty to retreat, but she did retreat, was evidently in the clear, and then returned with the gun. So self defense is going to be a tough sell.
What was crazy is that she was convicted of attempted murder for what was pretty clearly a warning shot. Assault at best. Certainly not attempted murder beyond a reasonable doubt.
George Zimmerman was sitting in his truck, completely in the clear, and then he chased down an unarmed teenager with his gun. He didn't fire a warning shot, though.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
Witness and inconclusive audio, certainly you know this
whether or not the audio was inconclusive is based on interpretation of testimony.
You mean the testimony where no one can definitively state who was screaming? Like I said, inconclusive.
there was only one person that wasn't sure who it was...
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
Witness and inconclusive audio, certainly you know this
whether or not the audio was inconclusive is based on interpretation of testimony.
You mean the testimony where no one can definitively state who was screaming? Like I said, inconclusive.
there was only one person that wasn't sure who it was...
There was only one person who would have testified any differently if people were trying to say that a yelping dog were somebody crying for help.
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-juror-b37-hates-media-called-trayvon-787873533
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-juror-b37-hates-media-called-trayvon-787873533
wow
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I can basically see what this woman looks like and I've never seen her before.
:lol:
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I guarantee she doesn't even read her own book. She will just use it for the parrot cages.
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-juror-b37-hates-media-called-trayvon-787873533
The prosecution let that on the jury :confused:
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-juror-b37-hates-media-called-trayvon-787873533
The prosecution let that on the jury :confused:
They can only reject so many and you have to keep in mind that they only were allowed to choose from dumbasses who didn't know any details about the case.
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it wasn't that long ago that pc idiots were trying to propagate the terminology for non-white people as "people of color". i remember people that care about language making fun of the effort: "jeans of blue", "barn of red", etc.
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I guarantee she doesn't even read her own book. She will just use it for the parrot cages.
She got bullied clean out of publishing it last night.
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
there were witnesses and audio dumbass
hey dumbass, there were no witnesses who saw who started the fight.
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Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
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Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
K-S-U lives in a Holiday Inn Express.
Ask him anything about healthcare, he's an expert there too.
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I guarantee she doesn't even read her own book. She will just use it for the parrot cages.
She got bullied clean out of publishing it last night.
Good. The weak don't deserve good things.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
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it wasn't that long ago that pc idiots were trying to propagate the terminology for non-white people as "people of color". i remember people that care about language making fun of the effort: "jeans of blue", "barn of red", etc.
pc idiots
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
The victim being black and the shooter looking like a white man played a much larger role.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
The victim being black and the shooter looking like a white man played a much larger role.
I guess we'll find out for sure when the DOJ charges him.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
The victim being black and the shooter looking like a white man played a much larger role.
In the trial occurring? Agreed. In the outcome of the trial? I really doubt it. The outcome was pretty much preordained based on the lack of evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. the only question was whether the jury would follow the law or vote out of compassion, and they followed the law.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
The victim being black and the shooter looking like a white man played a much larger role.
I guess we'll find out for sure when the DOJ charges him.
I'm probably giving the DOJ too much credit, but I doubt they'll charge him. GZ didn't kill TM because he was black (a "hate crime") - he killed him because the two were involved in a fight. And while it's possible that GZ followed TM because he was black (all evidence to the contrary), this does not constitute a hate crime.
More likely, this will just be "under investigation" for the indefinite future. It's a way for the Obama administration to soothe the base.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
The victim being black and the shooter looking like a white man played a much larger role.
In the trial occurring? Agreed. In the outcome of the trial? I really doubt it. The outcome was pretty much preordained based on the lack of evidence to support guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. the only question was whether the jury would follow the law or vote out of compassion, and they followed the law.
They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit. If you are on the jury and you are not ok with somebody chasing down and shooting an unarmed kid to death, you vote guilty. Apparently these jurors are ok with that happening to a black kid. We don't know how they would have voted if Zimmerman were black and Trayvon were white.
And LOL at there not being any evidence. The 911 call was the only piece of relevant evidence presented by either side, but it was very damning. Without the 911 call, I would say that Zimmerman should be voted not guilty. The call provided evidence from Zimmerman himself that he scared Trayvon enough for him to flee, and then Zimmerman pursued him with a gun. Trayvon was then found shot to death by that gun. Nothing that happened in between matters at all.
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Harvard Law Prof Alan Dershowitz says Angela Corey should be disbarred:
She submitted an affidavit that was, if not perjurious, completely misleading. She violated all kinds of rules of the profession, and her conduct bordered on criminal conduct. She, by the way, has a horrible reputation in Florida. She's known for overcharging, she's known for being highly political. And in this case, of course she overcharged. Halfway through the trial she realized she wasn't going to get a second degree murder verdict, so she asked for a compromised verdict, for manslaughter. And then, she went even further and said that she was going to charge him with child abuse and felony murder. That was such a stretch that it goes beyond anything professionally responsible. She was among the most irresponsible prosecutors I've seen in 50 years of litigating cases, and believe me, I've seen good prosecutors, bad prosecutors, but rarely have I seen one as bad as this prosecutor, Corey.
:sdeek:
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
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If I were a juror I would ask "How on earth could somebody who scared a kid into running away chase him down with a gun and then claim self defense?" And then I would vote guilty.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
A book deal.
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Harvard Law Prof Alan Dershowitz says Angela Corey should be disbarred:
She submitted an affidavit that was, if not perjurious, completely misleading. She violated all kinds of rules of the profession, and her conduct bordered on criminal conduct. She, by the way, has a horrible reputation in Florida. She's known for overcharging, she's known for being highly political. And in this case, of course she overcharged. Halfway through the trial she realized she wasn't going to get a second degree murder verdict, so she asked for a compromised verdict, for manslaughter. And then, she went even further and said that she was going to charge him with child abuse and felony murder. That was such a stretch that it goes beyond anything professionally responsible. She was among the most irresponsible prosecutors I've seen in 50 years of litigating cases, and believe me, I've seen good prosecutors, bad prosecutors, but rarely have I seen one as bad as this prosecutor, Corey.
:sdeek:
I thought she was like the greatest prosecutor of all time? weird
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
For the most part nothing happens. It could result in an overturn on appeal, but that doesn't happen as much as some people would think. when a jury doesn't follow the law and votes for other reasons it is called jury nullification.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
You said that a lot, then someone pointed out that Stand Your Ground was mentioned in the jury instructions and you seemed surprised and now you seem to be claiming that it had no effect again.
That "someone" was me. The SYG portion was just a carryover from the standard jury instruction. I was surprised that the defense didn't try (maybe they did) to take that part out, since they never claimed SYG and it didn't fit with theri theory of the case.
Again, stand your ground had no application to this case. GZ claimed he couldn't retreat, and it is therefore irrelevant that he didn't have to retreat.
Yet, somehow it was in the jury instructions. I guess they just didn't want to redraft and have to submit a clean copy to the judge. Seems like a lot of work. Just throw in an instruction that isn't part of the case and assume the jury will ignore it. Whew. Let's get lunch.
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How do I search this thread for where I predicted SYG would be in the jury instructions and a few noobs said it wouldn't?
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
For the most part nothing happens. It could result in an overturn on appeal, but that doesn't happen as much as some people would think. when a jury doesn't follow the law and votes for other reasons it is called jury nullification.
Right, there's no penalty, but the verdict could be tossed if it ever came to light (extremely rare). Do you really want a justice system where jurors are allowed to vote on emotion and prejudice rather than applying the evidence to the law (including the requirement that the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt)? I'm sure it happens all the time, but it's not supposed to.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
For the most part nothing happens. It could result in an overturn on appeal, but that doesn't happen as much as some people would think. when a jury doesn't follow the law and votes for other reasons it is called jury nullification.
Right, there's no penalty, but the verdict could be tossed if it ever came to light (extremely rare). Do you really want a justice system where jurors are allowed to vote on emotion and prejudice rather than applying the evidence to the law (including the requirement that the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt)? I'm sure it happens all the time, but it's not supposed to.
You just described a jury. Good grief.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
For the most part nothing happens. It could result in an overturn on appeal, but that doesn't happen as much as some people would think. when a jury doesn't follow the law and votes for other reasons it is called jury nullification.
Right, there's no penalty, but the verdict could be tossed if it ever came to light (extremely rare). Do you really want a justice system where jurors are allowed to vote on emotion and prejudice rather than applying the evidence to the law (including the requirement that the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt)? I'm sure it happens all the time, but it's not supposed to.
You just described a jury. Good grief.
Exactly. That system is the one that we have.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
:sdeek:
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
it's moved beyond that, now they're just calling each other "dumbasses"
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If you get into an altercation and no witnesses saw who intsigated the fight, as long as you kill the other party, you're free to go. That's the law.
I'm sure you know this, but it's been that way for a long time. My mom tells a story about living in California in the 60's. Sherrif tells her to keep shooting until they're dead, and if she ever shoots anyone outside her country home to drag the body inside.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them.
They must? What is the penalty if they don't?
For the most part nothing happens. It could result in an overturn on appeal, but that doesn't happen as much as some people would think. when a jury doesn't follow the law and votes for other reasons it is called jury nullification.
Right, there's no penalty, but the verdict could be tossed if it ever came to light (extremely rare). Do you really want a justice system where jurors are allowed to vote on emotion and prejudice rather than applying the evidence to the law (including the requirement that the state prove guilt beyond a reasonable doubt)? I'm sure it happens all the time, but it's not supposed to.
You just described a jury. Good grief.
Exactly. That system is the one that we have.
Doesn't mean we should condone it.
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If I were a juror I would ask "How on earth could somebody who scared a kid into running away chase him down with a gun and then claim self defense?" And then I would vote guilty.
And I would reply that GZ caught up to TM after TM had a 4 minute head start?
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
That's a much better question. I'd have to say no. Even if you assume that following him was okay, he should have maintained a safe distance. Getting close enough to be confronted/struck was where I believe he "broke the rules."
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
I want the noobs to admit that SYG was submitted as an instruction and I was right.
It seems now that the gun nuts have figured out that the defense may have not needed the SYG law and so they are screaming that it wasn't involved so there isn't any scrutiny on it.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
Did anyone say that GZ followed proper societal and moral rules? Seems that the clear consensus from everyone, except maybe a few that are always on the fringe, is that GZ is still a pos, even if not guilty of what he was charged of.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
Ok, no more legal conversations. That's just the fun nerdy stuff for me.
To your question, I'm not sure what you mean by "proper societal and moral rules." Let's assume that GZ wasn't just trying to keep an eye on Trayvon, but instead was actually trying to approach him. That was certainly a riskier choice than staying in his car, especially if you think he might be a burglar, but was it immoral?
Now let's assume GZ then blurted out "what are you doing here?" That's a little rude, if you ask me. Not as rude as a punch to the face (or deserving of it), but still rude. Would have been more polite to say something like "Hi, we've had some break-ins in the neighborhood recently and I don't recognize you. Would you mind telling me who you are?"
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
I want the noobs to admit that SYG was submitted as an instruction and I was right.
It seems now that the gun nuts have figured out that the defense may have not needed the SYG law and so they are screaming that it wasn't involved so there isn't any scrutiny on it.
Looks like we have some competing claims here. I wonder who will be proven right beyond a reasonable doubt.
The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
You said that a lot, then someone pointed out that Stand Your Ground was mentioned in the jury instructions and you seemed surprised and now you seem to be claiming that it had no effect again.
That "someone" was me. The SYG portion was just a carryover from the standard jury instruction. I was surprised that the defense didn't try (maybe they did) to take that part out, since they never claimed SYG and it didn't fit with theri theory of the case.
Again, stand your ground had no application to this case. GZ claimed he couldn't retreat, and it is therefore irrelevant that he didn't have to retreat.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
I want the noobs to admit that SYG was submitted as an instruction and I was right.
It seems now that the gun nuts have figured out that the defense may have not needed the SYG law and so they are screaming that it wasn't involved so there isn't any scrutiny on it.
Looks like we have some competing claims here. I wonder who will be proven right beyond a reasonable doubt.
The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
The same laws are in place in Kansas and most other states. It was just a standard self-defense claim, and there's nothing really special about it.
You said that a lot, then someone pointed out that Stand Your Ground was mentioned in the jury instructions and you seemed surprised and now you seem to be claiming that it had no effect again.
That "someone" was me. The SYG portion was just a carryover from the standard jury instruction. I was surprised that the defense didn't try (maybe they did) to take that part out, since they never claimed SYG and it didn't fit with theri theory of the case.
Again, stand your ground had no application to this case. GZ claimed he couldn't retreat, and it is therefore irrelevant that he didn't have to retreat.
No one would ever contend that the judge and attorneys for both parties would allow an instruction that "plays no part in the case" to go to the jury. I think he just misspoke.
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If I were a juror I would ask "How on earth could somebody who scared a kid into running away chase him down with a gun and then claim self defense?" And then I would vote guilty.
And I would reply that GZ caught up to TM after TM had a 4 minute head start?
1. What makes you believe TM had a 4 minute head start? GZ was already outside and in pursuit when he was on the phone with 911. You can hear his heavy breathing and the wind blowing into the phone.
2. Obviously GZ did catch up to him or the kid wouldn't be dead.
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Unlike TM this thread just won't die. What? Too soon? Yeah you are right, I'll just show myself to the door. :clac:
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
:sdeek:
It's hard to find a good proofreader for my blogs posts at a reasonable price these days. I'm looking into an illegal with an English degree.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
:sdeek:
It's hard to find a good proofreader for my blogs posts at a reasonable price these days. I'm looking into an illegal with an English degree.
You wouldn't be able to afford him/her.
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The thing that bothers me more than anything is that relatively little attention has been paid to the absolutely insane laws in place that protected George Zimmerman.
Stand your ground didn't play any roll in this trial.
:sdeek:
It's hard to find a good proofreader for my blogs posts at a reasonable price these days. I'm looking into an illegal with an English degree.
You wouldn't be able to afford him/her.
She missed another. Gone.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Solid counterpunch, 33! I think this argument is really about to get heated!
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Solid counterpunch, 33! I think this argument is really about to get heated!
:sdeek:
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Solid counterpunch, 33! I think this argument is really about to get heated!
:sdeek:
no way this thing gets heated. you must be some kind of idiot!
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
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pc idiots
people that distort language for Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) reasons annoy me. be not niggardly with your vocabulary.
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pc idiots
people that distort language for Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) reasons annoy me. be not niggardly with your vocabulary.
that's offensive
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
the last 40 pages of this thread could be condensed into two posts, one from Side A, and one from Side B.
let the debate rage on!
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
the last 40 pages of this thread could be condensed into two posts, one from Side A, and one from Side B.
I vehemently disagree
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there was a third side where i posted semi funny stories about following people around my neighborhood for a page and a half. did you not see those? :dunno:
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pc idiots
people that distort language for Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) reasons annoy me. be not niggardly with your vocabulary.
that's offensive
exactly.
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there was a third side where i posted semi funny stories about following people around my neighborhood for a page and a half. did you not see those? :dunno:
those were really funny, actually.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on the matter and I want you to know that I consider your points to be rational and well thought out. I will mull them over some more in the coming days and if I change my mind or move closer to your position I will let you know. Please do not try and convince me further.
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on the matter and I want you to know that I consider your points to be rational and well thought out. I will mull them over some more in the coming days and if I change my mind or move closer to your position I will let you know. Please do not try and convince me further.
Great, just make sure to chime in and let us know if it's OK to talk about things. Thanks!
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33 seems to struggle with discussing controversial issues. It's ok to have an opinion and defend it, 33. We'll still like your videos.
The phrase "agree to disagree" is very underutilized in our society.
Maybe, but I don't think goEMAW.com is a place where it needs to be used. I think peoples' inability to have a rational debate is more of a concern than a lack of "agreeing to disagree".
Agree to disagree. I respect your opinion on the matter and I want you to know that I consider your points to be rational and well thought out. I will mull them over some more in the coming days and if I change my mind or move closer to your position I will let you know. Please do not try and convince me further.
Great, just make sure to chime in and let us know if it's OK to talk about things. Thanks!
ok
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Wouldn't Trayvon have been at home if he was scared and running away?
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Wouldn't Trayvon have been at home if he was scared and running away?
I'm just going off of the account that Zimmerman gave during the 911 call.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Even if the gun was concealed at the time?
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Wouldn't Trayvon have been at home if he was scared and running away?
I'm just going off of the account that Zimmerman gave during the 911 call.
Pretty sure he said he was getting away and lost site of him during the 911 call. Not certain though.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Even if the gun was concealed at the time?
Yeah. I mean, you know you have the gun, it's dark, raining, and apparently you are scaring the crap out of this kid you are following because he just takes off running away from you when you are on the phone with 911. Unless you actually see him in the act of some crime that you feel compelled to try and stop, you should just let him go.
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They are following the law no matter how they vote. The law allows for a jury system to interpret the law in any way they see fit.
No and no. They must follow the law as presented to them. In this case, they only needed to decide whether the state proved beyond a reasonable doubt that GZ did not have a reasonable fear of death or serious bodily harm unless he acted in self defense. Now, of course the jury has room to decide whether GZ's fear was "reasonable." But to use an extreme example, if a juror were to vote not guilty just because they don't like black people, that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I just don't think GZ proved he was acting in self defense," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I don't know if he acted in self defense or not, but I feel terrible for Trayvon's parents, so I'm voting guilty," that's not following the law. If a juror were to say "I think GZ profiled Trayvon so there's no way I'm even going to consider self defense," that's not following the law.
GZ was the aggressor, so he couldn't act in self defense as he was on the offensive. He started a fight, began to get his ass kicked and then shot TM. I mean this isn't hard.
following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
I would consider it an act of violence when you are armed and they are running away from you.
Wouldn't Trayvon have been at home if he was scared and running away?
I'm just going off of the account that Zimmerman gave during the 911 call.
Pretty sure he said he was getting away and lost site of him during the 911 call. Not certain though.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
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so trayvon is running away but fatass catches up to him? a 17 year old can't escape GZ in the dark when it's rainy?
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I'm just going off of the account that Zimmerman gave during the 911 call.
Pretty sure he said he was getting away and lost site of him during the 911 call. Not certain though.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Yeah, he never said that Martin was getting away or that he lost sight of him. He did say "These assholes always get away" and that he was following him.
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following someone to ask them what they are doing isn't against the law or an act of violence IMO.
When you go outside today, think if weirdo George Zimmerman was following you around asking what you were doing there.
Would you let him do it indefinitely, or would you expect that at some point, under the law, that the lunatic should have to get away from you?
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I'd call the cops
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic1.businessinsider.com%2Fimage%2F51dd7132eab8ea1e2d000011-480%2Fgeorge-zimmerman.jpg&hash=400793ef1f45fbb83c0e6c7aa415960a2ce1733e)
300+, 194
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so trayvon is running away but fatass catches up to him? a 17 year old can't escape GZ in the dark when it's rainy?
Apparently he can't. I'm not really sure what your point is.
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holy crap that's amazing.
He didn't get away because he stopped to jump GZ
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holy crap that's amazing.
He didn't get away because he stopped to jump GZ
If GZ isn't chasing him down with a gun, he doesn't get jumped.
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I'd call the cops
Why?
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that was really smart of him to get suits he could grow into
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When you go outside today, think if weirdo George Zimmerman was following you around asking what you were doing there.
Would you let him do it indefinitely, or would you expect that at some point, under the law, that the lunatic should have to get away from you?
I would say I'm out walking for exercise or walking home or whatever. If they kept up I'd call the police. I definitely wouldn't run, hide, and then punch the guy.
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holy crap that's amazing.
He didn't get away because he stopped to jump GZ
If GZ isn't chasing him down with a gun, he doesn't get jumped.
If TM says, "hey I'm staying at my dad's fiancé's house" or whatever instead of jumping Zimm, he'd be alive
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When you go outside today, think if weirdo George Zimmerman was following you around asking what you were doing there.
Would you let him do it indefinitely, or would you expect that at some point, under the law, that the lunatic should have to get away from you?
I would say I'm out walking for exercise or walking home or whatever. If they kept up I'd call the police. I definitely wouldn't run, hide, and then punch the guy.
I would probably assume I was about to get robbed.
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
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Hey guys keep arguing, I really sense that someone is about to change their opinion on this topic soon. This is incredibly productive.
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holy crap that's amazing.
He didn't get away because he stopped to jump GZ
If GZ isn't chasing him down with a gun, he doesn't get jumped.
If TM says, "hey I'm staying at my dad's fiancé's house" or whatever instead of jumping Zimm, he'd be alive
Q: How do we know he didn't say that?
A: because he's dead.
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Hey guys keep arguing, I really sense that someone is about to change their opinion on this topic soon. This is incredibly productive.
eff off, it's interesting.
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Hey guys keep arguing, I really sense that someone is about to change their opinion on this topic soon. This is incredibly productive.
eff off, it's interesting.
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some people can argue without becoming irate or emotional.
Not ALL people though.
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Feels good knowing myself, K-S-U!, Cire, etc... won this thread
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
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And really, like this discussion that you didn't have to join is keeping you away from more productive things to do with your day like talk about your favorite reality show or Ron Prince smashing cell phones against walls.
Okay, one of those was a bad example.
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And really, like this discussion that you didn't have to join is keeping you away from more productive things to do with your day like talk about your favorite reality show or Ron Prince smashing cell phones against walls.
Okay, one of those was a bad example.
yeah i get it Rusty, you want to keep going on this one. its cool. not for me. i'll be in the Royals thread if you need anything.
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
If I had four minutes and I felt my life was in danger I would put half a mile between me and whoever was following me.
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And really, like this discussion that you didn't have to join is keeping you away from more productive things to do with your day like talk about your favorite reality show or Ron Prince smashing cell phones against walls.
Okay, one of those was a bad example.
yeah i get it Rusty, you want to keep going on this one. its cool. not for me. i'll be in the Royals thread if you need anything.
interesting if accurate
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And really, like this discussion that you didn't have to join is keeping you away from more productive things to do with your day like talk about your favorite reality show or Ron Prince smashing cell phones against walls.
Okay, one of those was a bad example.
yeah i get it Rusty, you want to keep going on this one. its cool. not for me. i'll be in the Royals thread if you need anything.
I think that thread may be more depressing.
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
If I had four minutes and I felt my life was in danger I would put half a mile between me and whoever was following me.
If it were dark, rainy, and you were in a strange neighborhood, you wouldn't try to find a hiding spot close to home and just hope you lose him? You don't see how that might be an appealing solution for somebody else?
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fupload.wikimedia.org%2Fwikipedia%2Fen%2Fthumb%2F4%2F4e%2FWhat_Would_You_Do_intertitle.jpg%2F250px-What_Would_You_Do_intertitle.jpg&hash=dfb81912e6c74d25122b946298e531a410e433e4)
thats all marc summers wants to know
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
If I had four minutes and I felt my life was in danger I would put half a mile between me and whoever was following me.
If it were dark, rainy, and you were in a strange neighborhood, you wouldn't try to find a hiding spot close to home and just hope you lose him? You don't see how that might be an appealing solution for somebody else?
nope, sitting duck, I'd run my ass straight to my dad's house and be on the phone with 911 while doing so.
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lol at anybody knowing FOR SURE how they'd act in that situation
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lol at anybody knowing FOR SURE how they'd act in that situation
I for sure wouldn't have a gun.
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
If I had four minutes and I felt my life was in danger I would put half a mile between me and whoever was following me.
If it were dark, rainy, and you were in a strange neighborhood, you wouldn't try to find a hiding spot close to home and just hope you lose him? You don't see how that might be an appealing solution for somebody else?
nope, sitting duck, I'd run my ass straight to my dad's house and be on the phone with 911 while doing so.
Zimmerman would have seen you run into the house. If you turn the corner and find a hiding spot, he won't be able to catch up in time to see where you hid. I agree that running into the house seems like it is probably the safer option, but let's not act like there is no reason a scared kid would try to find a place to hide.
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lol at anybody knowing FOR SURE how they'd act in that situation
I for sure wouldn't have a gun.
I don't think I would call 911. I would be too embarrassed if it turned out the guy wasn't actually following me and I pulled a Zimmerman (minus shooting the kid, of course).
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126/
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you wouldn't call the police if you felt like you were about to get robbed?
What do you think their response time would be, and how much more likely do you think getting murdered would be if you had the police on the phone? I would probably just give the guy my wallet and hope I don't get stabbed, but I can understand why somebody else would try to run away and fight if that doesn't work.
If I had four minutes and I felt my life was in danger I would put half a mile between me and whoever was following me.
If it were dark, rainy, and you were in a strange neighborhood, you wouldn't try to find a hiding spot close to home and just hope you lose him? You don't see how that might be an appealing solution for somebody else?
nope, sitting duck, I'd run my ass straight to my dad's house and be on the phone with 911 while doing so.
Zimmerman would have seen you run into the house. If you turn the corner and find a hiding spot, he won't be able to catch up in time to see where you hid. I agree that running into the house seems like it is probably the safer option, but let's not act like there is no reason a scared kid would try to find a place to hide.
DArk and rainy, apartment complex? 4 minute head start? yeah right.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126/
heh, I had just seen the serious version:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/jurisprudence/2013/07/george_zimmerman_and_self_defense_why_it_was_too_easy_for_him_to_get_off.html
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DArk and rainy, apartment complex? 4 minute head start? yeah right.
What 4 minute head start?
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DArk and rainy, apartment complex? 4 minute head start? yeah right.
What 4 minute head start?
That was how long he had to get away but instead decided to start a fight
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DArk and rainy, apartment complex? 4 minute head start? yeah right.
What 4 minute head start?
That was how long he had to get away but instead decided to start a fight
You mean he was shot and killed 4 minutes after Zimmerman hung up the phone? That's not the same thing as a 4 minute head start. Zimmerman was already in pursuit before he hung up the phone. Also, LOL at starting a fight by running away.
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I'm just going off of the account that Zimmerman gave during the 911 call.
Pretty sure he said he was getting away and lost site of him during the 911 call. Not certain though.
Dispatcher: He's running? Which way is he running?
Zimmerman: Down towards the other entrance to the neighborhood.
Dispatcher: Which entrance is that that he's heading towards?
Zimmerman: The back entrance...rough ridin' [disputed/unintelligible]
Dispatcher: Are you following him?
Zimmerman: Yeah.
Dispatcher: Okay, we don't need you to do that.
Zimmerman: Okay.
Dispatcher: All right, sir, what is your name?
Zimmerman: George...He ran.
Dispatcher: All right, George, what's your last name?
Zimmerman: Zimmerman.
Dispatcher: And George, what's the phone number you're calling from?
Yeah, he never said that Martin was getting away or that he lost sight of him. He did say "These assholes always get away" and that he was following him.
He said "he ran", then went on to have a calm discussion with the operator while he looked for a house number. He wasn't running after him.
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Then he shot a kid.
I feel like there should be an autocorrect feature that adds that to all sentences about GZ, regardless of your opinion.
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Then he shot a kid.
I feel like there should be an autocorrect feature that adds that to all sentences about GZ, regardless of your opinion.
I think you mean that he then stood his ground in order to prevent the need for a third band aid.
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the law's the law. don't hate the player etc.
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I bet GZ's Lawyers could argue that TM stalked and attacked GZ.
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the law's the law. don't hate the player etc.
I reserve the right to hate a guy who stalked and killed a kid when he absolutely could have avoided doing so.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME)
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME)
lukeblast ladies and gents.
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I wish I could fast forward in time where everyone looks the same race in America since we are all inter-racial banging each other, then I'll never have to hear about a "race issue" trial again.
http://io9.com/5482465/what-will-americans-of-the-future-look-like
Would take if all our chicks looked remotely like her..
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2sL2f0PoqME)
lukeblast ladies and gents.
'grats. first ever.
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It's like whack-a-mole around here. Just when I think everyone understands that SYG was irrelevant to this case, I walk away for a few hours and the idiots are back to claiming that SYG was somehow relevant to this case.
This was an ordinary self-defense case. Zimmerman could not retreat because he was pinned under Martin. Thus, the SYG "no duty to retreat" portion of the law was irrelvant.
There was nothing unusual about the law that was applied in this case. The facts wre interesting, but the law was quite ordinary.
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Then he shot a kid.
I feel like there should be an autocorrect feature that adds that to all sentences about GZ, regardless of your opinion.
Good idea. Can we expand the feature so that in any sentence about TM, it adds "he decided that punching GZ in the face, then jumping on top and banging GZ's head into the sidewalk, was a reasonable, measured response to GZ asking 'what are you doing here?'"
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lol at anybody knowing FOR SURE how they'd act in that situation
I know FOR SURE that I'd get my ass back to my house if I was concerned that some wierdo was hunting. Admittedly, I'm less sure what I would do if I was pinned to the ground, getting beat up and I had a gun in a holster.
GZ [then he shot a kid]
Edit: it works! :cheers:
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in college a dude broke into my apt, I came home at like 3AM and I saw his shadow on a wall.
Boom 911.
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Then he shot a kid.
I feel like there should be an autocorrect feature that adds that to all sentences about GZ, regardless of your opinion.
Good idea. Can we expand the feature so that in any sentence about TM, it adds "he decided that punching GZ in the face, then jumping on top and banging GZ's head into the sidewalk, was a reasonable, measured response to GZ asking 'what are you doing here?'"
Well, there's a little tiny difference between your idea and felix's. what felix mentioned was, you know, a fact.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126/
I'm proud of the Onion. Even they understand that SYG wasn't relevant to this case.
Edit: Slate got it right, too! Reality seems to be puncturing the general media narrative.
Much debate about the jury’s decision Saturday to find George Zimmerman not guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin has focused on Florida’s Stand your Ground law, which allows a person to use deadly force in self-defense even if they can safely retreat. One juror even cited Stand Your Ground as the basis for his decision.
Having Stand Your Ground laws is a bad idea because the law can too easily turn into a license to kill when bad blood, not fear, motivates the killing. But the big problem for the prosecution in the Zimmerman case wasn’t really Stand Your Ground. It was about a broader problem with the law of self-defense—showcasing an aspect of the law that this case urgently shows should change.
The evidence suggested that Martin was straddling Zimmerman at the moment Zimmerman drew his gun, so Zimmerman could not retreat. That’s why the central aspect of Stand Your Ground didn’t come into play.
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I have an idea for a fun game. If you believe the not guilty verdict was correct then try your hardest to convince everyone that it was. If you believe it was not correct try your hardest to convince everyone of that.
Yes. I'm perplexed as to why we're still having legal conversations here, its over. I would like to know from the people who thought that Zimmerman should have been acquitted if they feel that he followed proper societal and moral rules.
Ok, no more legal conversations. That's just the fun nerdy stuff for me.
To your question, I'm not sure what you mean by "proper societal and moral rules." Let's assume that GZ wasn't just trying to keep an eye on Trayvon, but instead was actually trying to approach him. That was certainly a riskier choice than staying in his car, especially if you think he might be a burglar, but was it immoral?
Now let's assume GZ then blurted out "what are you doing here?" That's a little rude, if you ask me. Not as rude as a punch to the face (or deserving of it), but still rude. Would have been more polite to say something like "Hi, we've had some break-ins in the neighborhood recently and I don't recognize you. Would you mind telling me who you are?"
No would have sufficed.
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I'm not even sure that GZ was trying to have an encounter TM so much as trying to keep an eye on him.
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I wish I could fast forward in time where everyone looks the same race in America since we are all inter-racial banging each other, then I'll never have to hear about a "race issue" trial again.
http://io9.com/5482465/what-will-americans-of-the-future-look-like
Would take if all our chicks looked remotely like her..
they're called goobacks man. Doesnt turn out well
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.humanitysucks.com%2Fblog%2Ffiles%2FSP_goobacks.jpg&hash=e0eb2bef49f1b4e043f55925f09da43da2371ed6)
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in college a dude broke into my apt, I came home at like 3AM and I saw his shadow on a wall.
Boom 911.
Did he confront you?
I'm not even sure that GZ was trying to have an encounter TM so much as trying to keep an eye on him.
If you don't rough ridin' know what happened stop rough ridin' talking like Martin's actions caused his own death. You've spent the last 3 pages repeating the same stupid ass point despite the fact you have no clue what happened that night.
Jury- We don't know what happened that night so we can't send this guy to prison for 20-40 years.
Cire- The dumb [redacted] should have ran faster while calling 911, Zimmerman should have shot him sooner.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
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I would say I'm out walking for exercise or walking home or whatever. If they kept up I'd call the police. I definitely wouldn't run, hide, and then punch the guy.
I don't think I would call 911. I would be too embarrassed if it turned out the guy wasn't actually following me and I pulled a Zimmerman (minus shooting the kid, of course).
It might be embarrassing for cire if he called the cops about something that he's already declared isn't illegal.
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When you go outside today, think if weirdo George Zimmerman was following you around asking what you were doing there.
Would you let him do it indefinitely,
pretty sure I already said I'd answer and if the dude persisted I'd call the cops.
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When you go outside today, think if weirdo George Zimmerman was following you around asking what you were doing there.
Would you let him do it indefinitely, or would you expect that at some point, under the law, that the lunatic should have to get away from you?
I would say I'm out walking for exercise or walking home or whatever. If they kept up I'd call the police. I definitely wouldn't run, hide, and then punch the guy.
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Yeah, I read your answer like three times. It was what I expected it to be and is funny in light of you saying that what Zimmerman did and what the hypothetical Zimmerman would be doing to you isn't illegal.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
This is stupid.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
:facepalm:
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
This is stupid.
Maybe. I'm just being honest, though. If I'm a juror, I'm not going to try to apply the letter of the law to the case. That is the job of the district attorney when they decide to bring a case to trial. I'm just going to listen to the facts, and if I think the defendant is guilty, I vote guilty. Ditto with innocent. In a case like this, where we already know the defendant killed an unarmed teenager, he had better be protecting himself or at least his property. Trying to put his MMA training to use against a kid who is much smaller than him on a rainy night and then shooting the kid when things don't go his way just isn't good enough for me.
Ask yourself this, seven. Is George Zimmerman a threat to society? He still has the right to carry his gun around chasing around scary people and shooting them, and he has already proven that he is a killer. The world is a better place if he has to stay behind bars until he gets low t.
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just a guess but you wouldn't make it to the jury.
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just a guess but you wouldn't make it to the jury.
Why would I want to?
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just a guess but you wouldn't make it to the jury.
Why would I want to?
Can you not answer that yourself or are you just typing to see your own text on the screen?
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i don't agree with nuts kicked on much in this thread, but i do agree with him on his last point. a juror has a moral duty to offer justice to the parties dependent on his judgement. if the laws relevant to the case in question clearly conflict with what is just, then the juror cannot escape his obligation to do what is just by hiding behind the letter of the law.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
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i don't agree with nuts kicked on much in this thread, but i do agree with him on his last point. a juror has a moral duty to offer justice to the parties dependent on his judgement. if the laws relevant to the case in question clearly conflict with what is just, then the juror cannot escape his obligation to do what is just by hiding behind the letter of the law.
Who gets to determine what is "just" if it isn't determined by the law of the land?
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i don't agree with nuts kicked on much in this thread, but i do agree with him on his last point. a juror has a moral duty to offer justice to the parties dependent on his judgement. if the laws relevant to the case in question clearly conflict with what is just, then the juror cannot escape his obligation to do what is just by hiding behind the letter of the law.
Who gets to determine what is "just" if it isn't determined by the law of the land?
A jury of your peers.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
^^^^ big time dumbass, folks
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
Isn't that what happened? Let's look at a hypothetical situation that is actually less far fetched than the actual case. Say a man breaks into a house to steal a tv in the middle of the night. The home owner wakes up and proceeds to beat the crap out of the robber. The robber, fearing for his life, or at the very least great bodily harm, pulls out his gun and shoots the homeowner dead. Do you convict him of murder, and why? I don't, because I don't believe he entered the house with the intent to kill. I do reject self defense and convict of manslaughter, though. Sure, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that the robber was not in fear of great bodily harm. It would probably be easier to prove that he was. You have to look at the reason that fear existed, though. He put himself in that situation, just like George Zimmerman did.
I would like to think that just about everybody knows what is just and what is not. The law was written to line up on the side of what is just. When it doesn't line up, as a juror, you should use your own judgement.
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i don't agree with nuts kicked on much in this thread, but i do agree with him on his last point. a juror has a moral duty to offer justice to the parties dependent on his judgement. if the laws relevant to the case in question clearly conflict with what is just, then the juror cannot escape his obligation to do what is just by hiding behind the letter of the law.
you and nuts kicked are exhibit A as to why the jury system scares the living eff out of me. essentially what you're lobbying for is no set laws. just if your "peers" think you did something wrong you could wind up in jail for 20 years. never mind that most of our "peers" are mouth breathing fucktards that couldn't find canada on a map of north america.
so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
I may have been giving you too much credit. I could've sworn you were smarter than this.
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i don't agree with nuts kicked on much in this thread, but i do agree with him on his last point. a juror has a moral duty to offer justice to the parties dependent on his judgement. if the laws relevant to the case in question clearly conflict with what is just, then the juror cannot escape his obligation to do what is just by hiding behind the letter of the law.
you and nuts kicked are exhibit A as to why the jury system scares the living eff out of me. essentially what you're lobbying for is no set laws. just if your "peers" think you did something wrong you could wind up in jail for 20 years. never mind that most of our "peers" are mouth breathing fucktards that couldn't find canada on a map of north america.
so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
I may have been giving you too much credit. I could've sworn you were smarter than this.
I don't think anybody is advocating for that, Rams. I don't think it's reasonable at all to think that Zimmerman should have followed Martin.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
Isn't that what happened? Let's look at a hypothetical situation that is actually less far fetched than the actual case. Say a man breaks into a house to steal a tv in the middle of the night. The home owner wakes up and proceeds to beat the crap out of the robber. The robber, fearing for his life, or at the very least great bodily harm, pulls out his gun and shoots the homeowner dead. Do you convict him of murder, and why? I don't, because I don't believe he entered the house with the intent to kill. I do reject self defense and convict of manslaughter, though. Sure, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that the robber was not in fear of great bodily harm. It would probably be easier to prove that he was. You have to look at the reason that fear existed, though. He put himself in that situation, just like George Zimmerman did.
I would like to think that just about everybody knows what is just and what is not. The law was written to line up on the side of what is just. When it doesn't line up, as a juror, you should use your own judgement.
wow. you just need to stop. right now.
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I find it amusing that GZ wanted to be some bad ass neighborhood watch guy who would stop crime from impacting the neighborhood. In that gist he sees someone who looks suspicious to him and follows said person. When bad ass GZ confronts the person, said person doesn't like it and proceeds to beat his ass. At this point GZ if probably thinking that being a bad ass is not such a good idea and he doesn't like getting his ass beat. What does he do? Instead of taking his ass whooping like he should have, he shoots said person and then claims he was fearful for his life.
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If Trayvon were actually committing some kind of a crime that Zimmerman were trying to stop, I would vote not guilty, even if the law doesn't allow for that kind of thing, fwiw.
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I say we tie him up and throw him in a lake to see if he floats or sinks. If he sinks he's innocent.
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I say we tie him up and throw him in a lake to see if he floats or sinks. If he sinks he's innocent.
feels like we're about 5 pages from somebody seriously arguing for that.
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If Trayvon were actually committing some kind of a crime that Zimmerman were trying to stop, I would vote not guilty, even if the law doesn't allow for that kind of thing, fwiw.
assault and battery is a crime in all 50 states.
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If Trayvon were actually committing some kind of a crime that Zimmerman were trying to stop, I would vote not guilty, even if the law doesn't allow for that kind of thing, fwiw.
assault and battery is a crime in all 50 states.
Not in self defense.
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I find it amusing that GZ wanted to be some bad ass neighborhood watch guy who would stop crime from impacting the neighborhood. In that gist he sees someone who looks suspicious to him and follows said person. When bad ass GZ confronts the person, said person doesn't like it and proceeds to beat his ass. At this point GZ if probably thinking that being a bad ass is not such a good idea and he doesn't like getting his ass beat. What does he do? Instead of taking his ass whooping like he should have, he shoots said person and then claims he was fearful for his life.
this is why the type of people who become gun people and apply for concealed carry are the type of people that shouldn't have guns. meanwhile, the type of people who could handle the responsibility of it usually don't want one.
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so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
i think it is very, very hard, though not impossible, to conceive of situations where it would be just to punish someone when they were not clearly in violation of law (chiefly, but not solely because those people would have legitimate reason to assume their behavior was appropriate). however, it is not at all hard to conceive of myriad situations where it is just to not punish someone who did transgress some law.
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so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
i think it is very, very hard, though not impossible, to conceive of situations where it would be just to punish someone when they were not clearly in violation of law (chiefly, but not solely because those people would have legitimate reason to assume their behavior was appropriate). however, it is not at all hard to conceive of myriad situations where it is just to not punish someone who did transgress some law.
holy eff :facepalm:
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so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
i think it is very, very hard, though not impossible, to conceive of situations where it would be just to punish someone when they were not clearly in violation of law (chiefly, but not solely because those people would have legitimate reason to assume their behavior was appropriate). however, it is not at all hard to conceive of myriad situations where it is just to not punish someone who did transgress some law.
I agree completely.
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so you want to move from "beyond a reasonable doubt" to "my gut tells me he's guilty of something.". what a great rough ridin' plan because we're just not throwing enough people in jail these days.
i think it is very, very hard, though not impossible, to conceive of situations where it would be just to punish someone when they were not clearly in violation of law (chiefly, but not solely because those people would have legitimate reason to assume their behavior was appropriate). however, it is not at all hard to conceive of myriad situations where it is just to not punish someone who did transgress some law.
I agree completely.
I disagree. Illegal or GTFO!
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holy eff :facepalm:
i stand in awe of your ability to express yourself.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
Isn't that what happened? Let's look at a hypothetical situation that is actually less far fetched than the actual case. Say a man breaks into a house to steal a tv in the middle of the night. The home owner wakes up and proceeds to beat the crap out of the robber. The robber, fearing for his life, or at the very least great bodily harm, pulls out his gun and shoots the homeowner dead. Do you convict him of murder, and why? I don't, because I don't believe he entered the house with the intent to kill. I do reject self defense and convict of manslaughter, though. Sure, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that the robber was not in fear of great bodily harm. It would probably be easier to prove that he was. You have to look at the reason that fear existed, though. He put himself in that situation, just like George Zimmerman did.
I would like to think that just about everybody knows what is just and what is not. The law was written to line up on the side of what is just. When it doesn't line up, as a juror, you should use your own judgement.
wow. you just need to stop. right now.
I am genuinely curious if you would let the robber off the hook for the death in this situation. Is there a limit to how closely you are willing to follow the letter of the law?
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nk, i'm pretty sure that most self-defense laws have something about how someone engaging in a crime has no right to defend himself. the florida one definitely did.
in fact, i'm also pretty sure that most murder laws have something about how any killing that occurs during the commission of a felony is murder, not manslaughter.
so your robber is pretty mumped.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
Isn't that what happened? Let's look at a hypothetical situation that is actually less far fetched than the actual case. Say a man breaks into a house to steal a tv in the middle of the night. The home owner wakes up and proceeds to beat the crap out of the robber. The robber, fearing for his life, or at the very least great bodily harm, pulls out his gun and shoots the homeowner dead. Do you convict him of murder, and why? I don't, because I don't believe he entered the house with the intent to kill. I do reject self defense and convict of manslaughter, though. Sure, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that the robber was not in fear of great bodily harm. It would probably be easier to prove that he was. You have to look at the reason that fear existed, though. He put himself in that situation, just like George Zimmerman did.
I would like to think that just about everybody knows what is just and what is not. The law was written to line up on the side of what is just. When it doesn't line up, as a juror, you should use your own judgement.
wow. you just need to stop. right now.
I am genuinely curious if you would let the robber off the hook for the death in this situation. Is there a limit to how closely you are willing to follow the letter of the law?
The robber is committing a felony on private property and can't claim self defense. letter of the law.
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
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Seriously?
I've been on the record in this thread that GZ should be in jail. But that is not the law in florida.
eff the law. If you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty. No consequences, other than the world being a better place.
Do you think that crazy-gun-nut, fanatical-syg-supporter guy should also apply, exclusively, his own subjective determination of "justice" when determining guilt or innocence in a self-defense case? Seems kind of dangerous to start down that road.
Isn't that what happened? Let's look at a hypothetical situation that is actually less far fetched than the actual case. Say a man breaks into a house to steal a tv in the middle of the night. The home owner wakes up and proceeds to beat the crap out of the robber. The robber, fearing for his life, or at the very least great bodily harm, pulls out his gun and shoots the homeowner dead. Do you convict him of murder, and why? I don't, because I don't believe he entered the house with the intent to kill. I do reject self defense and convict of manslaughter, though. Sure, it would be impossible to prove beyond a reasonable doubt to a jury that the robber was not in fear of great bodily harm. It would probably be easier to prove that he was. You have to look at the reason that fear existed, though. He put himself in that situation, just like George Zimmerman did.
I would like to think that just about everybody knows what is just and what is not. The law was written to line up on the side of what is just. When it doesn't line up, as a juror, you should use your own judgement.
wow. you just need to stop. right now.
I am genuinely curious if you would let the robber off the hook for the death in this situation. Is there a limit to how closely you are willing to follow the letter of the law?
The robber is committing a felony on private property and can't claim self defense. letter of the law.
Zimmerman was committing assault. Can he still claim self defense under the law? It's not a felony, so I'm really not sure.
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this thread needs to be zimmerman'd
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
I am aware that juries have the power to do that. However, unlike you and sys, I don't think it is good for a jury to use that power because a subjective standard of justice isn't something I believe is good for society.
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
I am aware that juries have the power to do that. However, unlike you and sys, I don't think it is good for a jury to use that power because a subjective standard of justice isn't something I believe is good for society.
Well, yeah, I agree that jurors should not just flat deny the truth in a murder trial. A self defense trial, where the law is very vague and has tons of room for interpretation, is very different, though. For example, there is no definition provided for "great bodily harm". Jurors are allowed to interpret that as they see fit and vote accordingly. Using the law as a framework, and your own common sense judgement, I could certainly understand how a juror could go either way on this one. The fact is that I'm going to give leeway if GZ is actually in the right, and I'm not going to give any if he isn't.
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
I am aware that juries have the power to do that. However, unlike you and sys, I don't think it is good for a jury to use that power because a subjective standard of justice isn't something I believe is good for society.
Well, yeah, I agree that jurors should not just flat deny the truth in a murder trial. A self defense trial, where the law is very vague and has tons of room for interpretation, is very different, though. For example, there is no definition provided for "great bodily harm". Jurors are allowed to interpret that as they see fit and vote accordingly. Using the law as a framework, and your own common sense judgement, I could certainly understand how a juror could go either way on this one. The fact is that I'm going to give leeway if GZ is actually in the right, and I'm not going to give any if he isn't.
I pretty much agree with you there, but that's different than "eff the law if you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty" (which is the standard that was used by Bryant's/Milan's jury).
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
I am aware that juries have the power to do that. However, unlike you and sys, I don't think it is good for a jury to use that power because a subjective standard of justice isn't something I believe is good for society.
Well, yeah, I agree that jurors should not just flat deny the truth in a murder trial. A self defense trial, where the law is very vague and has tons of room for interpretation, is very different, though. For example, there is no definition provided for "great bodily harm". Jurors are allowed to interpret that as they see fit and vote accordingly. Using the law as a framework, and your own common sense judgement, I could certainly understand how a juror could go either way on this one. The fact is that I'm going to give leeway if GZ is actually in the right, and I'm not going to give any if he isn't.
I pretty much agree with you there, but that's different than "eff the law if you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty" (which is the standard that was used by Bryant's/Milan's jury).
Yeah, it was late last night and this thread has been going on for so long that I was kind of trolling (though sort of serious as well) and I admit that I took that way too far.
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nk, i'm pretty sure that most self-defense laws have something about how someone engaging in a crime has no right to defend himself. the florida one definitely did.
in fact, i'm also pretty sure that most murder laws have something about how any killing that occurs during the commission of a felony is murder, not manslaughter.
so your robber is pretty mumped.
Even if this wasn't in the law, a jury could decide that the homeowner reasonably thought the burglar's actions constituted a threat of force, nullifying the self defense claim. Jury might have done the same here, and convicted gz of murder, in an alternate universe where they were instructed on the initial aggressor exemption.
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Look up the murder trial of Roy Bryant and JW Milan for an example of what can happen when juries are allowed to disregard the law and use their subjective determination of "justice". Apologize I don't have a link but I'm on my phone.
Jurors still are allowed to do that, if you weren't aware.
I am aware that juries have the power to do that. However, unlike you and sys, I don't think it is good for a jury to use that power because a subjective standard of justice isn't something I believe is good for society.
Well, yeah, I agree that jurors should not just flat deny the truth in a murder trial. A self defense trial, where the law is very vague and has tons of room for interpretation, is very different, though. For example, there is no definition provided for "great bodily harm". Jurors are allowed to interpret that as they see fit and vote accordingly. Using the law as a framework, and your own common sense judgement, I could certainly understand how a juror could go either way on this one. The fact is that I'm going to give leeway if GZ is actually in the right, and I'm not going to give any if he isn't.
I pretty much agree with you there, but that's different than "eff the law if you are a juror and you believe GZ should be in jail, you should vote guilty" (which is the standard that was used by Bryant's/Milan's jury).
Yeah, it was late last night and this thread has been going on for so long that I was kind of trolling (though sort of serious as well) and I admit that I took that way too far.
It was good trolling because you hooked me and several others and you moved the discussion forward to an interesting issue (imo). I think I would enjoy being on a jury with you.
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http://www.theonion.com/articles/in-our-defense-these-were-some-pretty-fuckedup-law,33126/
I'm proud of the Onion. Even they understand that SYG wasn't relevant to this case.
Edit: Slate got it right, too! Reality seems to be puncturing the general media narrative.
Much debate about the jury’s decision Saturday to find George Zimmerman not guilty of murdering Trayvon Martin has focused on Florida’s Stand your Ground law, which allows a person to use deadly force in self-defense even if they can safely retreat. One juror even cited Stand Your Ground as the basis for his decision.
Having Stand Your Ground laws is a bad idea because the law can too easily turn into a license to kill when bad blood, not fear, motivates the killing. But the big problem for the prosecution in the Zimmerman case wasn’t really Stand Your Ground. It was about a broader problem with the law of self-defense—showcasing an aspect of the law that this case urgently shows should change.
The evidence suggested that Martin was straddling Zimmerman at the moment Zimmerman drew his gun, so Zimmerman could not retreat. That’s why the central aspect of Stand Your Ground didn’t come into play.
Well, glad that the Onion supports you. Have you checked where WWTDD falls on the issue? I have heard that Perez Hilton may share your position.
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Feels good knowing myself, K-S-U!, Cire, etc... won this thread
Except the part where I was 100% right on the SYG instruction.
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It's like whack-a-mole around here. Just when I think everyone understands that SYG was irrelevant to this case, I walk away for a few hours and the idiots are back to claiming that SYG was somehow relevant to this case.
This was an ordinary self-defense case. Zimmerman could not retreat because he was pinned under Martin. Thus, the SYG "no duty to retreat" portion of the law was irrelvant.
There was nothing unusual about the law that was applied in this case. The facts wre interesting, but the law was quite ordinary.
SYG was submitted as an instruction. I don't have to explain to you the significance of that. Pro-tip: it means at least one party and the judge agreed it was most definitely relevant.
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good job, limestone. 100% of the jurors who have spoken out cited it as a reason for their verdict, too.
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good job, limestone. 100% of the jurors who have spoken out cited it as a reason for their verdict, too.
I know my crap. What can I say?
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Just to wrap things up. George Zimmerman's cousin claimed he molested her (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html) and this is the third time George Zimmerman has been attacked by someone else and had to "defend himself." The previous cases:
2005: Zimmerman is arrested for “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer.” But he wrote in his application to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy that “the officer assaulted me first”.
2005: Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So let's just be really honest with ourselves about his credibility and character.
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well now, this sure is odd. Very odd indeed. :confused:
In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations.
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Just to wrap things up. George Zimmerman's cousin claimed he molested her (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/16/george-zimmerman_n_1676729.html) and this is the third time George Zimmerman has been attacked by someone else and had to "defend himself." The previous cases:
2005: Zimmerman is arrested for “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer.” But he wrote in his application to the Seminole County Sheriff’s Office Citizens Law Enforcement Academy that “the officer assaulted me first”.
2005: Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.
So let's just be really honest with ourselves about his credibility and character.
I'm amazed that
1) That never came up in the trial (you and I kind of touched on it, but still).
2) He was allowed to have a concealed carry after all of that (and probably still will!).
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Oh Man! Mot just moslestation, but that of a 6 yr old.
Also: “It's not just me that he did these things to,” she said. The witness said that she talked to another woman who she claims was also molested by Zimmerman, but would not come forward.
:surprised:
Serial forced molestation.
#TeamZimm should probably put their collective heads together on how they will support/back up their guy on this one.
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well now, this sure is odd. Very odd indeed. :confused:
In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations.
goEMAW (specifically Rusty): Sorry I ever clowned this thread. This just got real interesting.... :popcorn:
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well now, this sure is odd. Very odd indeed. :confused:
In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations.
goEMAW (specifically Rusty): Sorry I ever clowned this thread. This just got real interesting.... :popcorn:
I am going to check funnyordie.com for some more quotes
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well now, this sure is odd. Very odd indeed. :confused:
In an interview on CNN’s Anderson Cooper 360 Monday night, an anonymous juror said the panel that found George Zimmerman not guilty considered Florida’s Stand Your Ground law in its deliberations.
Because of the only, the two options you had, second degree murder or manslaughter, you felt neither applied?
Right. Well, because of the heat of the moment and the stand your ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right.
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I bet he was just frisking those girls for drugs.
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Except the part where I was 100% right on the SYG instruction.
Take a lap, even though I was the one who initially posted about the jury instruction here. The point remains that this case had absolutely nothing to do with Stand Your Ground. SYG is just one provision of FL's self defense statute, which is why it is also included in the standard self defense jury instruction. To quote the statute:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
GZ could not retreat - he was pinned to the ground - so the SYG provision was irrelevant. If they had both been standing up at the time, then SYG would have been relevant.
So why did the juror use the phrase "stand your ground"? No idea. She never explained how that particular provision factored into the decision. She never said, for example, "well, he had no duty to retreat." Instead, she just talked about ordinary self defense. "Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right." Most likely, if she read any of the ignorant media coverage between the verdict and giving her interview, she just conflated "stand your ground" with "self defense."
Again, none of this has any relevance to the inescapable fact that because GZ could not retreat, stand your ground was irrelevant.
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oh look, it's ksuwildcats saying syg had nothing to do with the trial
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I think "no duty to retreat" here means "no duty to not pick fights"
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
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Its stand your ground not lay on the ground! CASE DISMISSED!
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Yeah. I didn't realize the "stand" part was literal.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
inability to separate emotion from the facts of the trial, maybe? dunno, i (along with many others) got pretty wrapped up too
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
inability to separate emotion from the facts of the trial, maybe? dunno, i (along with many others) got pretty wrapped up too
a lot of dipshits in this thread struggled to seperate the situation, their feelings on it, and the legal proceedings from each other. some to the point that it all became the same thing.
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SYG is only relevant because it exists. If this case had happened in another state without SYG, the outcome would have been the same. Simple self defense.
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Except the part where I was 100% right on the SYG instruction.
Take a lap, even though I was the one who initially posted about the jury instruction here. The point remains that this case had absolutely nothing to do with Stand Your Ground. SYG is just one provision of FL's self defense statute, which is why it is also included in the standard self defense jury instruction. To quote the statute:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
GZ could not retreat - he was pinned to the ground - so the SYG provision was irrelevant. If they had both been standing up at the time, then SYG would have been relevant.
So why did the juror use the phrase "stand your ground"? No idea. She never explained how that particular provision factored into the decision. She never said, for example, "well, he had no duty to retreat." Instead, she just talked about ordinary self defense. "Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right." Most likely, if she read any of the ignorant media coverage between the verdict and giving her interview, she just conflated "stand your ground" with "self defense."
Again, none of this has any relevance to the inescapable fact that because GZ could not retreat, stand your ground was irrelevant.
I know what your opinion is, it's just contrary to the facts. It sucks, for sure, and an uncomfortable position to be in but trust me, I am usually right so no biggie.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
Except when the judge specifically ruled it did and at least one side submitted it as an instruction. And the jury relied on the instruction. But outside of that, your opinion that has no foundation is right on.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
Except when the judge specifically ruled it did and at least one side submitted it as an instruction. And the jury relied on the instruction. But outside of that, your opinion that has no foundation is right on.
Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
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LOL. Oh man.
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:lol: :popcorn:
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Pfft
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i'll make this easier...
<---- not a lawyer
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K-S-U-Wildcats!, that is an amazing post, for multiple reasons. Take your time trotting around those bases.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
Except when the judge specifically ruled it did and at least one side submitted it as an instruction. And the jury relied on the instruction. But outside of that, your opinion that has no foundation is right on.
Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
So, when the judge includes the instruction in the jury charge and its submitted, he has ruled that it is not relevant? Seems strange, but you have touted this as a fact so often it has to be true or you would look like a major fool, so I will defer.
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This was the Court's Self Defense Instruction FWIW.
JUSTIFIABLE USE OF DEADLY FORCE
An issue in this case is whether George Zimmerman acted in self-defense. It is a defense to the crime of Second Degree Murder, and the lesser included offense of Manslaughter, if the death of Trayvon Martin resulted from the justifiable use of deadly force.
“Deadly force” means force likely to cause death or great bodily harm.
A person is justified in using deadly force if he reasonably believes that such force is necessary to prevent imminent death or great bodily harm to himself.
In deciding whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you must judge him by the circumstances by which he was surrounded at the time the force was used. The danger facing George Zimmerman need not have been actual; however, to justify the use of deadly force, the appearance of danger must have been so real that a reasonably cautious and prudent person under the same circumstances would have believed that the danger could be avoided only through the use of that force. Based upon appearances, George Zimmerman must have actually believed that the danger was real.
If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
In considering the issue of self-defense, you may take into account the relative physical abilities and capacities of George Zimmerman and Trayvon Martin.
If in your consideration of the issue of self-defense you have a reasonable doubt on the question of whether George Zimmerman was justified in the use of deadly force, you should find George Zimmerman not guilty.
However, if from the evidence you are convinced beyond a reasonable doubt that George Zimmerman was not justified in the use of deadly force, you should find him guilty if all the elements of the charge have been proved.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
Except when the judge specifically ruled it did and at least one side submitted it as an instruction. And the jury relied on the instruction. But outside of that, your opinion that has no foundation is right on.
Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
That joke was awesome when I made it about you. Way to be a luker.
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seems like SYG was relevant to trayvon and his family? :dunno:
and the jury. and the judge. and the trial. not to ksuwildcats, tho.
This article makes the same point. http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman (http://reason.com/blog/2013/07/16/juror-says-she-believed-george-zimmerman)
It's really just a difference in terminology. If you want to call FL's self defense statute "Stand Your Ground" just because it contains a SYG provision, knock yourself out. the fact remains that the SYG provision did not apply to his case. Even Eric Holder subtly acknowledged this at his NAALCP rally the other day. Good grief.
Except when the judge specifically ruled it did and at least one side submitted it as an instruction. And the jury relied on the instruction. But outside of that, your opinion that has no foundation is right on.
Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
That joke was awesome when I made it about you. Way to be a luker.
:horrorsurprise:
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:lol:
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When do the protests start in front of the Prosecutors office for the horrible, horrible job they did?
When you can't beat a divorce lawyer in a capital murder case you pretty much know your case sucked major balls.
"a divorce lawyer" --> http://www.markomaralaw.com/Attorney-Profile/Mark-M-O-mara.shtml
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http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hosienation/2013/07/17/hosie-nation-30-wleecrowe
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How often do you think that a judge throws in irrelevant jury instructions just for fun? Like, 50% of the time?
Would be hilarious, throws in a felony murder instruction on a DUI case. Those guys are always trying to crack up the jury with unrelated instructions. :lol: <--- judge after submitting an unrelated instruction
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How often do you think that a judge throws in irrelevant jury instructions just for fun? Like, 50% of the time?
Would be hilarious, throws in a felony murder instruction on a DUI case. Those guys are always trying to crack up the jury with unrelated instructions. :lol: <--- judge after submitting an unrelated instruction
successfully SYG'd a cop during spring break '09 who was trying to harass me for an MIP, what a loser
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Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
That joke was awesome when I made it about you. Way to be a luker.
Dammit, you're right. Should have given you the attribution. Credit where credit is due. :cheers:
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I really enjoyed the "judge questions the defendent part" of the trial and the WTF expressions from the defense attorneys.
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I really enjoyed the "judge questions the defendent part" of the trial and the WTF expressions from the defense attorneys.
are you dax or do you play him on goEMAW?
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<---lawyer
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Are you a lawyer, or do you just play one on the internet?
Is K-S-U a licensed attorney or does he just play one on gE?
That joke was awesome when I made it about you. Way to be a luker.
Dammit, you're right. Should have given you the attribution. Credit where credit is due. :cheers:
:cheers:
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I really enjoyed the "judge questions the defendent part" of the trial and the WTF expressions from the defense attorneys.
Did she do that in front of the jury?
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I really enjoyed the "judge questions the defendent part" of the trial and the WTF expressions from the defense attorneys.
Did she do that in front of the jury?
I don't think she did it at all. If she did, I'd be curious how Zimmerman responded given that his lips were superglued together.
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Also, K-S-U-W!, call in tonight. (347) 945-6424 6-8 pm.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hosienation/2013/07/17/hosie-nation-30-wleecrowe
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Also, K-S-U-W!, call in tonight. (347) 945-6424 6-8 pm.
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/hosienation/2013/07/17/hosie-nation-30-wleecrowe
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.pandawhale.com%2Fpost-19861-Its-a-trap-cat-gif--Sweet-free-DqWE.gif&hash=ba3e94ad2f51ae854b558e535437436b5c67bb26)
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:lol:
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I really enjoyed the "judge questions the defendent part" of the trial and the WTF expressions from the defense attorneys.
Did she do that in front of the jury?
When she asked whether or not he wanted to testify it was not in front of the jury. But what do I know? I'm not an attorney.
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Except the part where I was 100% right on the SYG instruction.
Take a lap, even though I was the one who initially posted about the jury instruction here. The point remains that this case had absolutely nothing to do with Stand Your Ground. SYG is just one provision of FL's self defense statute, which is why it is also included in the standard self defense jury instruction. To quote the statute:
A person who is not engaged in an unlawful activity and who is attacked in any other place where he or she has a right to be has no duty to retreat and has the right to stand his or her ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he or she reasonably believes it is necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or herself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony.
GZ could not retreat - he was pinned to the ground - so the SYG provision was irrelevant. If they had both been standing up at the time, then SYG would have been relevant.
So why did the juror use the phrase "stand your ground"? No idea. She never explained how that particular provision factored into the decision. She never said, for example, "well, he had no duty to retreat." Instead, she just talked about ordinary self defense. "Because of the heat of the moment and the Stand Your Ground. He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right." Most likely, if she read any of the ignorant media coverage between the verdict and giving her interview, she just conflated "stand your ground" with "self defense."
Again, none of this has any relevance to the inescapable fact that because GZ could not retreat, stand your ground was irrelevant.
seems like he could have retreated before he started the fight.
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:sdeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDVPLFy91c
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I hope you guys don't follow your own advice and punch someone for following you. It's barbaric and you'll be charged with assault for starting a fight.
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:sdeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDVPLFy91c
Man you should get out of there and follow through with your plan to move to Flor....well crap.
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:sdeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDVPLFy91c
Man you should get out of there and follow through with your plan to move to Flor....well crap.
Seattle?
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http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-man-charged-with-assault-not-murder-in-May-shooting-215777871.html
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I hope you guys don't follow your own advice and punch someone for following you. It's barbaric and you'll be charged with assault for starting a fight.
you're a dumbass.
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http://www.komonews.com/news/local/Seattle-man-charged-with-assault-not-murder-in-May-shooting-215777871.html
:sdeek:
https://twitter.com/TrimGoEMAW/status/343592038987599872
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lol
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:sdeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDVPLFy91c
christ
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I bet judges put instructions that don't at all relate to the case in the jury charge all time to lighten things up. Like, a case where some pedo murdered a child and everyone is all serious and then they see that he included an instruction in the packet for shop lifting a candy bar and they are all like "wha?" and then he runs in and sprays the foreperson with a seltzer bottle and they all laugh then convict the guy and sentence him to death.
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It's not like syg would be the only irrelevant detail in the instructions. (If it's really irrelevant. Don't really care.)
The killing of a human being is justifiable and lawful if necessarily done while resisting an attempt to murder or commit a felony upon George Zimmerman, or to commit a felony in any dwelling house in which George Zimmerman was at the time of the attempted killing
I'm more interested in the instigation exemption, which seems like it should have been relevant here (and the state's best shot at a conviction? :dunno:). Defense got all reference to it struck from the instructions tho. I'm not a lawyer, so it would be great if someone that is would comment on the line of thinking going on here:
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3596685 (http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/3596685)
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Perhaps, the judge hates the SYG law and hammered the instructions to the jury knowing that GZ would walk because of it. Sinister bitch, right there!
(This case is classic self-defense, btw.)
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:sdeek:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVDVPLFy91c
Wow.
Fitz owns an HD Handycam?
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_162-57594576-504083/darius-simmons-murder-jury-decides-john-henry-spooner-wis-man-was-sane-when-he-killed-teen-neighbor/
Why wasn't the final verdict in this case blown up? They couldn't flip this into a racial thing since the Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!) white old man got sentenced to life in jail? White people REVOLT!!!
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That could have been me 35 years from now
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:lol:
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http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue-163123990--abc-news-topstories.html
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Stud.
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how do we know that zimmerman didn't cause the crash though
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http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue-163123990--abc-news-topstories.html
LOL, I saw that on my facebook along w/ a "you KNOW the mainstream media won't share this".
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Boss.
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Hey, why did that car crash and roll over? (Maybe drugs?).
"Hey! What are you guys doing upside down on my street?!?!"
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Man, if Zimmerman wasn't there, that guy might have died. This is a squash now, right?
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how do we know that zimmerman didn't cause the crash though
Was the SUV black? He was probably following it too closely and brandished his piece in their rearview mirror.
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Tragedy and outrage aside, this is just an amazing development.
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Tragedy and outrage aside, this is just an amazing development.
yes
ZIMMERMAN A HERO
George Rescues Family
From Overturned SUV
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Man, if Zimmerman wasn't there, that guy might have died. This is a squash now, right?
:D
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Tragedy and outrage aside, this is just an amazing development.
yes
ZIMMERMAN A HERO
George Rescues Family
From Overturned SUV
party time for gun nuts
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Tragedy and outrage aside, this is just an amazing development.
yes
ZIMMERMAN A HERO
George Rescues Family
From Overturned SUV
party time for gun nuts
Just went outside of work and emptied a clip into the air. :excited:
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Sanford Police Department Capt. Jim McAuliffe told Fox News that Zimmerman, 29, was identified by a crash victim as the man who pulled him from the mangled vehicle.
“George [effing] Zimmerman pulled me out,” firefighters were told by the unidentified driver, according to McAuliffe.
:lol:
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:lol:
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:lol:
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http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue-163123990--abc-news-topstories.html
LOL, I saw that on my facebook along w/ a "you KNOW the mainstream media won't share this".
The MSM is covering the eff out of this
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http://gma.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-emerged-hiding-truck-crash-rescue-163123990--abc-news-topstories.html
LOL, I saw that on my facebook along w/ a "you KNOW the mainstream media won't share this".
The MSM is covering the eff out of this
They were covering the eff out of Zimmerman still when nothing was happening. They are excited as crap now that something actually happened.
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MSNBC just released the audio from GZ's 911 call.
Dispatcher: 9-1-1, what is your emergency?
GZ: Yeah, there's this SUV that just flipped over. [snip] It looks black.
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Between this and the royal baby, twitter is a wasteland of terrible jokes right now.
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Between this and the royal baby, twitter is a wasteland of terrible jokes right now.
this was good, but yeah, it's pretty bad out there: http://www.theonion.com/articles/royal-baby-born,33171/?utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_campaign=Default:2:Default
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ha ha, it's a whole series: http://www.theonion.com/section/royal-baby/
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Brad has already nailed it with a reference to the black car with its hood up, Zimmerman flying to London to deliver the baby, and finally this gem:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F13%2F07%2F23%2Fy8unamu9.jpg&hash=5a18600f47c531ff9f1d4c17107a6eb74657ca2d)
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Brad has already nailed it with a reference to the black car with its hood up, Zimmerman flying to London to deliver the baby, and finally this gem:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F13%2F07%2F23%2Fy8unamu9.jpg&hash=5a18600f47c531ff9f1d4c17107a6eb74657ca2d)
OMG
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I mean, good for GZ for helping, but crap. I'd be laying low for a while.
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I mean, good for GZ for helping, but crap. I'd be laying low for a while.
Heroes don't lay low. Heroes answer the call. The dude got out of his truck with a fire extinguisher, pulled the family of four to safety, and administered first aid.
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I mean, good for GZ for helping, but crap. I'd be laying low for a while.
Heroes don't lay low. Heroes answer the call. The dude got out of his truck with a fire extinguisher, pulled the family of four to safety, and administered first aid.
Keep this going. You're onto something.
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Tragedy and outrage aside, this is just an amazing development.
Zimmerman's tell-all book just got 100 pages longer
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Zimmerman wants everyone getting out of their vehicles.
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He took a life, he has to save one now. evens out
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He took a life, he has to save one now. evens out
He saved 4. He is +3.
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He took a life, he has to save one now. evens out
didn't he save like a whole vehicle full? click, click, boom.
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Zimmerman seems like a real stand up guy when he's not picking fights with women, kids, and cops.
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Zimmerman seems like a real stand up guy when he's not picking fights with women, kids, and cops.
Seems like an awesome individual, period.
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http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-wife-files-divorce/story?id=20171165
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Man, that sucks. Guy can't catch a break.
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Man, that sucks. Guy can't catch a break.
I opened this thread and saw Ell had commented and was like oh not this crap again. Then I saw this post and spit up the big chug of Busch Light I had just put in my mouth. :lol: :thumbs:
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Zimmerman seems like a real stand up guy when he's not picking fights with women, kids, and cops.
Seems like an awesome individual, period.
Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
Not surprising his only friend seemed to be his racist neighbor.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html
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Zimmerman seems like a real stand up guy when he's not picking fights with women, kids, and cops.
Seems like an awesome individual, period.
Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
Not surprising his only friend seemed to be his racist neighbor.
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/03/22/george-zimmerman-s-history-of-911-calls-a-complete-log.html
Well, now it makes sense why Zimmerman decided to chase down Martin. The last 45 people he called in all got away.
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What a piece of crap that guy Zimmerman is.
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I like how he actually dialed the emergency line of 911 when people were having parties he needed to break up.
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potholes!
POTHOLES EVERYWHERE!!
Maybe Currie can hire him to monitor tree activity around the Bill.
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19. Aug. 21, 2009 – 6:57 p.m.
Type: TEL
Subject: Conflict
Report: “Landlord is trying to take [Zimmerman’s] money for rent … and home in foreclosure”
Police! My landlord is trying to take the rent that I owe him!
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Dumb bitch. She lies in court and now she's leaving him? She's going to regret that after he writes his book. He's proven to be a real life hero more than once. Who would leave batman IRL? A dumbass, that's who!
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Zimmerman said her husband has been a new person since the jury’s verdict.
“In my opinion, he feels more invincible,” she said. “I just think he’s making some reckless decisions.”
He's now making some reckless decisions.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/zimmermans-wife-recounts-reasons-for-divorce-to-abc-i-have-a-selfish-husband/
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Somebody should call 911 and report his ass.
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O/U on how many times he kills her in self defense before the divorce? 1? More?
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O/U on how many times he kills her in self defense before the divorce? 1? More?
You can only kill somebody once, CNS. I could see him trying twice, though.
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O/U on how many times he kills her in self defense before the divorce? 1? More?
You can only kill somebody once, CNS. I could see him trying twice, though.
Interesting if true.
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Zimmerman said her husband has been a new person since the jury’s verdict.
“In my opinion, he feels more invincible,” she said. “I just think he’s making some reckless decisions.”
He's now making some reckless decisions.
http://www.mediaite.com/tv/zimmermans-wife-recounts-reasons-for-divorce-to-abc-i-have-a-selfish-husband/
Also probs cuz he got fat as ballz.
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Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
That's a lie, like many others spouted by the reckless media. The call was logged as "Suspicious Person," but details of the call reveal that GZ actually called because he was concerned about the child's well-being. http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html (http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html)
Compl advd s43 is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street // Compl concerned for well-being
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Also, pretty crumby to celebrate some dude's divorce, if you ask me. Is Batman married? Superman? Being a hero just puts too much strain on a relationship.
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Also, pretty crumby to celebrate some dude's divorce, if you ask me. Is Batman married? Superman? Being a hero just puts too much strain on a relationship.
Also, pretty crumby (:D) to shoot unarmed teenagers, imo.
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Also, pretty crumby to celebrate some dude's divorce, if you ask me. Is Batman married? Superman? Being a hero just puts too much strain on a relationship.
1. Oh man!
2. no one is celebrating the divorce, we are concerned for how suspicious the wife looks when walking to get the mail in the evening.
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Also, pretty crumby to celebrate some dude's divorce, if you ask me. Is Batman married? Superman? Being a hero just puts too much strain on a relationship.
1. Oh man!
2. no one is celebrating the divorce, we are concerned for how suspicious the wife looks when walking to get the mail in the evening.
I've already called 911 on her ass, CNS, so don't bother. We don't want to tie the police up any more than necessary. They need to get here soon, though. These assholes always get away, but not tonight. I have my gun and will stick to her like glue until the cops show.
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If I was GZ, I would basically just blast away at any suspicious character entering my home just to be safe, given the fact that someone was robbed in Florida last night.
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Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
That's a lie, like many others spouted by the reckless media. The call was logged as "Suspicious Person," but details of the call reveal that GZ actually called because he was concerned about the child's well-being. http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html (http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html)
Compl advd s43 is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street // Compl concerned for well-being
racist
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Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
That's a lie, like many others spouted by the reckless media. The call was logged as "Suspicious Person," but details of the call reveal that GZ actually called because he was concerned about the child's well-being. http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html (http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html)
Compl advd s43 is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street // Compl concerned for well-being
There was never a white kid aged 7-9 walking or playing alone in that neighborhood? When I lived in a subdivision there were many 3rd and 4th graders playing alone, I don't ever remember the police intervening. I guess I should be grateful he called 911 instead of 1-8-7ing the kid.
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I admit I don't follow this case all that closely. Seems possible this divorce is a way of protecting assets if he gets sure in civil court.
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Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
That's a lie, like many others spouted by the reckless media. The call was logged as "Suspicious Person," but details of the call reveal that GZ actually called because he was concerned about the child's well-being. http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html (http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html)
Compl advd s43 is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street // Compl concerned for well-being
There was never a white kid aged 7-9 walking or playing alone in that neighborhood? When I lived in a subdivision there were many 3rd and 4th graders playing alone, I don't ever remember the police intervening. I guess I should be grateful he called 911 instead of 1-8-7ing the kid.
Yeah, best not to acknowledge the lie. Once you start down that road, you might have to wonder how many other lies you were fed by the race baiters. Nope - he was racist for calling about the welfare of a little black kid wandering around because he might not have done the same for a white kid! :lol:
I know he supposedly started his first business with a black "friend" of his, but that was probably just some racist ploy too. I bet he just wanted to claim it as a minority owned business. I bet he was always just thinking about he wanted to gun his friend down, you know, because he was black.
And then the black neighbor who took the stand in his defense, talking how nice GZ had always been to her. Probably just a patsy GZ set up as cover so he could go hunting for black kids.
What a racist. I bet his wife didn't want to be married to a racist either. Good for her.
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I admit I don't follow this case all that closely. Seems possible this divorce is a way of protecting assets if he gets sure in civil court.
Yeah, that our she may not want to live life with the fame that will come from continuing to be his wife and wants to get out while there is still half of something to take.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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I admit I don't follow this case all that closely. Seems possible this divorce is a way of protecting assets if he gets sure in civil court.
Yeah, that our she may not want to live life with the fame that will come from continuing to be his wife and wants to get out while there is still half of something to take.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
I prolly would have waited until just after GZ wins his multimillion dollar defamation case against MSNBC, and just before TM's parents file their civil suit to go after that money.
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geez
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html
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what in the
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I don't blame him. All those wackos down there want him dead. My parents have an extra room in the basement and their HOA has been looking for a neighborhood watchman. He'd love it in MHK.
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Shocker.
Paranoid gun nut gets involved in gun incident after shooting innocent bystander in street and having absolutely zero ramifications.
Would love to know if the house was his or not. Article doesn't say.
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Yea, the article gives absolutely no information so to come to any conclusions here is pretty stupid.
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Since being acquitted in the shooting death of Trayvon Martin, George Zimmerman has been pulled over twice for speeding.
:sdeek:
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Yea, the article gives absolutely no information so to come to any conclusions here is pretty stupid.
yeah, you would look like a complete dumbass if you said something like "I don't blame him" at this point.
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geez
http://www.clickorlando.com/news/george-zimmerman-taken-into-custody-after-incident-with-gun-police-say/-/1637132/21851424/-/tlxm3oz/-/index.html
How did the incident involve a gun?
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Yea, the article gives absolutely no information so to come to any conclusions here is pretty stupid.
yeah, you would look like a complete dumbass if you said something like "I don't blame him" at this point.
There's a lot of dumbasses out there, steve dave.
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The Associated Press ?@AP 2m
BREAKING: George Zimmerman's wife calls police, saying he threatened her and her dad with a gun, police say
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The Associated Press ?@AP 2m
BREAKING: George Zimmerman's wife calls police, saying he threatened her and her dad with a gun, police say
I don't blame him
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Have you guys seen that psycho he's married to? Wouldn't surprise me if she is/was physically and emotionally abusive.
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The Associated Press ?@AP 2m
BREAKING: George Zimmerman's wife calls police, saying he threatened her and her dad with a gun, police say
Family history of calling 911 too much.
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I don't either, SD. Dumb "B" had it coming!
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I know if OJ said he was going to stab me with a knife, I would call 911 too.
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O/U on how many times he kills her in self defense before the divorce? 1? More?
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O/U on how many times he kills her in self defense before the divorce? 1? More?
What if she kills him in self defense? She already has his threat documented and everyone knows he's packing heat . . .
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Not sure if it made it in the thread but was his history of calling 911 discussed? He seems very nosy, paranoid, hard to get along with, and oh yeah super racist. He called a suspicious person call on an 8 year old black kid.
That's a lie, like many others spouted by the reckless media. The call was logged as "Suspicious Person," but details of the call reveal that GZ actually called because he was concerned about the child's well-being. http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html (http://allergic2bull.blogspot.com/2013/07/busting-zimmerman-myth-seven-year-old.html)
Compl advd s43 is walking alone & is not supervised on busy street // Compl concerned for well-being
There was never a white kid aged 7-9 walking or playing alone in that neighborhood? When I lived in a subdivision there were many 3rd and 4th graders playing alone, I don't ever remember the police intervening. I guess I should be grateful he called 911 instead of 1-8-7ing the kid.
Yeah, best not to acknowledge the lie. Once you start down that road, you might have to wonder how many other lies you were fed by the race baiters. Nope - he was racist for calling about the welfare of a little black kid wandering around because he might not have done the same for a white kid! :lol:
I know he supposedly started his first business with a black "friend" of his, but that was probably just some racist ploy too. I bet he just wanted to claim it as a minority owned business. I bet he was always just thinking about he wanted to gun his friend down, you know, because he was black.
And then the black neighbor who took the stand in his defense, talking how nice GZ had always been to her. Probably just a patsy GZ set up as cover so he could go hunting for black kids.
What a racist. I bet his wife didn't want to be married to a racist either. Good for her.
Yes to all of this. Also I bet George and Shellie were into cuckholding.
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frame job 100% sure.
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Can they kill each other in self defense? How does that work in Florida. How many times will she have to let him hit her in the nose?
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Can they kill each other in self defense? How does that work in Florida. How many times will she have to let him hit her in the nose?
She just needs a reasonable fear that her life is in danger. So basically, she just needs to get a gun (legally, of course!) and head over to see George, then shoot him. She can then tell the cops that George said he would shoot her if she walked out that door just like he shot Trayvon and so she decided to just stand her ground.
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Can they kill each other in self defense? How does that work in Florida. How many times will she have to let him hit her in the nose?
She just needs a reasonable fear that her life is in danger. So basically, she just needs to get a gun (legally, of course!) and head over to see George, then shoot him. She can then tell the cops that George said he would shoot her if she walked out that door just like he shot Trayvon and so she decided to just stand her ground.
This doesn't sound right. I mean, in your scenario, she didn't even stalk him in her SUV
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Can they kill each other in self defense? How does that work in Florida. How many times will she have to let him hit her in the nose?
She just needs a reasonable fear that her life is in danger. So basically, she just needs to get a gun (legally, of course!) and head over to see George, then shoot him. She can then tell the cops that George said he would shoot her if she walked out that door just like he shot Trayvon and so she decided to just stand her ground.
This doesn't sound right. I mean, in your scenario, she didn't even stalk him in her SUV
George isn't unarmed, though. She doesn't have to get him to even punch her. The whole world knows he's packing and has already killed one unarmed teen.
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This makes sense.
:ohno:
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:lol:
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Yes to all of this. Also I bet George and Shellie were into cuckholding.
someone watched boardwalk empire last night.
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(CNN) -- No charges were filed against George Zimmerman after an alleged altercation with his estranged wife and her father, Lake Mary, Florida, Police Chief Steve Bracknell said Monday.
"Shellie Zimmerman has declined prosecution (after consulting with her attorney)," Bracknell said.
Oh man. She is def going to kill him. Needs him out of jail and available to "threaten" her and to receive bullets.
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Good grief, wrongfully accused and tried for murder, now a crazy estranged wife, the poor guy just can't catch a break!
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_tampa/lake-mary-police-are-now-calling-into-question-several-statements-shellie-zimmerman-made-to-911 (http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_tampa/lake-mary-police-are-now-calling-into-question-several-statements-shellie-zimmerman-made-to-911)
LAKE MARY, Fla - Lake Mary Police are now questioning the validity of several statements Shellie Zimmerman made when she told 911 dispatchers her estranged husband, George Zimmerman, threatened her and her father at gunpoint Monday afternoon.
"We did not find a gun, did not locate a weapon," said Zach Hudson, public information officer with the Lake Mary Police Department. "Nobody ever saw a gun. A gun is not part of this story."
Still, a gun was at the crux of the account Shellie Zimmerman provided to 911 dispatchers when calling for help. "He continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying, 'Step closer.' He is just threatening all of us," Shellie can be heard telling dispatchers.
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(CNN) -- No charges were filed against George Zimmerman after an alleged altercation with his estranged wife and her father, Lake Mary, Florida, Police Chief Steve Bracknell said Monday.
"Shellie Zimmerman has declined prosecution (after consulting with her attorney)," Bracknell said.
Oh man. She is def going to kill him. Needs him out of jail and available to "threaten" her and to receive bullets.
Yep. Why settle for half of his money when you can just buy a bullet?
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The question of the gun became confused later when police told reporters there was no gun involved, but George Zimmerman's attorney told CNN's Anderson Cooper 360 that he believed his client had a firearm on him.
"He acted appropriately. He never took the weapon out," said Mark O'Mara, who is also a CNN legal analyst. O'Mara said he never saw the gun.
This guy must be addicted to the rush of causing others pain:
Shellie Zimmerman also tells 911 that George Zimmerman punched her father in the nose, then smashed her iPad before getting in his truck.
"I don't know what he's capable of. I'm really, really scared," she says.
George Zimmerman came to the house with a friend of his and got into a heated discussion with Dean, O'Mara said.
During the altercation, Zimmerman smashed his wife's iPad.
Shellie Zimmerman called police as George Zimmerman sat in his truck with his friend.
On the 911 call, Shellie Zimmerman is breathing heavily when she tells a dispatcher that Zimmerman is still at the house.
"He's in his car and he continually has his hand on his gun, and he's saying, 'Step closer.' He's just threatening all of us with his firearm," she says.
Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
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Good grief, wrongfully accused and tried for murder, now a crazy estranged wife, the poor guy just can't catch a break!
http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_tampa/lake-mary-police-are-now-calling-into-question-several-statements-shellie-zimmerman-made-to-911 (http://www.abcactionnews.com/dpp/news/region_tampa/lake-mary-police-are-now-calling-into-question-several-statements-shellie-zimmerman-made-to-911)
LAKE MARY, Fla - Lake Mary Police are now questioning the validity of several statements Shellie Zimmerman made when she told 911 dispatchers her estranged husband, George Zimmerman, threatened her and her father at gunpoint Monday afternoon.
"We did not find a gun, did not locate a weapon," said Zach Hudson, public information officer with the Lake Mary Police Department. "Nobody ever saw a gun. A gun is not part of this story."
Still, a gun was at the crux of the account Shellie Zimmerman provided to 911 dispatchers when calling for help. "He continually has his hand on his gun and he keeps saying, 'Step closer.' He is just threatening all of us," Shellie can be heard telling dispatchers.
Even Zimmerman's own lawyer is a liar. This dude needs to get his story straight.
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Zimmerman was smart to bring a friend along. He would probably already be dead if he didn't have the witness with him.
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The bitch cried wolf, surprise surprise.
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This whole "I don't know what he is capable of..." stuff by the wife is crazy.
I mean, she knows perfectly well that he is capable of shooting innocent ppl, not bothering him, and doing simple things they have every right to do.
What is her angle here? :bang: only probs to george instead of herself.
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Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
:nono: Every duelist has a second.
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The bitch cried wolf, surprise surprise.
Is wolf what ppl cry right before shooting their threatening husband in self defense while standing their ground?
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Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
:nono: Every duelist has a second.
His wife needs a better second than her pops if this is going to be any kind of a gun battle.
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Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
:nono: Every duelist has a second.
His wife needs a better second than her pops if this is going to be any kind of a gun battle.
Part of the separation probs will include a new guy that knows all about this stuff.
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Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
:nono: Every duelist has a second.
His wife needs a better second than her pops if this is going to be any kind of a gun battle.
Part of the separation probs will include a new guy that knows all about this stuff.
She needs to hook up with Trayvon's dad.
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I think the most important revelation to come out of this story is that George finally won a fight. All those years of MMA training are finally paying off. :sport028:
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Brought a friend along. Starting a gang.
:nono: Every duelist has a second.
His wife needs a better second than her pops if this is going to be any kind of a gun battle.
Part of the separation probs will include a new guy that knows all about this stuff.
She needs to hook up with Trayvon's dad.
I'm certain she's thought about it
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I think the most important revelation to come out of this story is that George finally won a fight. All those years of MMA training are finally paying off. :sport028:
Can you imagine how hard he is strutting around that neighborhood now? I bet he just sneers at every old man and teenager he sees.
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I think the most important revelation to come out of this story is that George finally won a fight. All those years of MMA training are finally paying off. :sport028:
Can you imagine how hard he is strutting around that neighborhood now? I bet he just sneers at every old man and teenager he sees.
He probably just goes walking around, staring down any pedestrian he sees while patting his sidearm so they know he means business and will kick their ass and kill them if they even think about doing something about it.
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The dude is such a boss and no one can do anything about it. :gocho:
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Seriously, though, George needs to move to a state with strict gun laws so he doesn't get SYG'd by Shellie.
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If she SYG's him, will she be a hero or a villian? I guess it depends who you are.
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If she SYG's him, will she be a hero or a villian? I guess it depends who you are.
I would vote to convict her. Killing George isn't really the right thing to do. I'm just not sure that a jury of her peers would have enough evidence to convict her. It would be her word against a dead child killer's, and we already saw how that played out a few months ago.
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
Johnny, unless he has beat women and killed unarmed teenagers in which case it's a tie.
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
Johnny. George isn't a stud at all. He's a fat man who picks fights against teenagers and shoots them when things start going poorly.
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Best thing Mrs. GZ could do right now is fall down some stairs, check into a battered women's shelter, then legally purchase a gun.
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
Johnny, unless he has beat women and killed unarmed teenagers in which case it's a tie.
Don't forget the elderly man whose face George just reconstructed.
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
Johnny, unless he has beat women and killed unarmed teenagers in which case it's a tie.
Don't forget the elderly man whose face George just reconstructed.
That doesn't count, the wife said he may not have had a gun at the time.
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Is he still fat?
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Is he still fat?
How could he not be? It takes a lot of time to lose that kind of weight. Plus, he's not good at anything. He's going to be fat for life.
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Is he still fat?
Nope, stud city
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1434458%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Fzimmerman-1-0822.jpg&hash=e64642d5ac1373f28e3fb9208604e96d8e2e34ca)
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He still looks pretty fat to me. He is making pretty good progress, though.
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Bigger stud: George or Johnny?
Johnny, unless he has beat women and killed unarmed teenagers in which case it's a tie.
Don't forget the elderly man whose face George just reconstructed.
That doesn't count, the wife said he may not have had a gun at the time.
GZ's lawyer said he did have a gun.
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Is he still fat?
Nope, stud city
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1434458%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Fzimmerman-1-0822.jpg&hash=e64642d5ac1373f28e3fb9208604e96d8e2e34ca)
The guy next to him is so scared of GZ that he wears safety glasses when he is around.
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Attorney Mark O'Mara drops George Zimmerman
No one likes a loser(cause or person)
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an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, you guys. nobody should shoot this guy.
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an eye for an eye makes the whole world blind, you guys. nobody should shoot this guy.
I agree. That doesn't mean it's not going to happen, though. His wife is acting very suspicious. Drugs, maybe?
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hopped up on skittles i bet
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Is he still fat?
Nope, stud city
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fassets.nydailynews.com%2Fpolopoly_fs%2F1.1434458%21%2Fimg%2FhttpImage%2Fimage.jpg_gen%2Fderivatives%2Flandscape_635%2Fzimmerman-1-0822.jpg&hash=e64642d5ac1373f28e3fb9208604e96d8e2e34ca)
I just want to know why he is hanging out with Jason Sehorn. The best of the white CBs in the NFL, well I can't verify that but it feels right.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHRAg540Y0
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHRAg540Y0
He looks pretty damned fat there.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uXHRAg540Y0
He looks pretty damned fat there.
dashcams add about 140lbs tho
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http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2013/nov/5/eric-holder-we-might-still-charge-george-zimmerman/
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The Associated Press ?@AP 3m
BREAKING: Fla. officials say George Zimmerman is arrested after deputies respond to disturbance call at house.
:frown:
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poor guy can't get a break
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He can absolutely PI the hell out of women and very old men. what a boss
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He can absolutely PI the hell out of women and very old men. what a boss
and kids
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He can absolutely PI the hell out of women and very old men. what a boss
and kids
Them too. There is a pretty wide swath of people he will not hesitate to get physical with. Pretty much everyone except someone who his own size/age and gender.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F196rbtrffpvxjjpg%2Fku-xlarge.jpg&hash=8ddb042e35b2c06a0e22ecbe6a90079c29c075d6)
Sounds like our guy Zimm and his gf are expecting a child! 'grats!
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Good grief.
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Somebody needs to judge this guy.
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Somebody needs to judge this guy.
I'm judging the crap out of him fwiw.
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.gawkerassets.com%2Fimg%2F196rbtrffpvxjjpg%2Fku-xlarge.jpg&hash=8ddb042e35b2c06a0e22ecbe6a90079c29c075d6)
Sounds like our guy Zimm and his gf are expecting a child! 'grats!
Looks like someone is embracing No Shave November!!
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Somebody needs to judge this guy.
?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F11111%2F111116102%2F3401434-judge-dredd-movie-2012.jpg&hash=7c6e70cc00f6ae3e129ee92005c25c223aea6183)
(or Sly's version)
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Give this guy a break, for crying out loud!
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Somebody needs to judge this guy.
?
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fstatic.comicvine.com%2Fuploads%2Foriginal%2F11111%2F111116102%2F3401434-judge-dredd-movie-2012.jpg&hash=7c6e70cc00f6ae3e129ee92005c25c223aea6183)
(or Sly's version)
Sorry, that post was written in code.
http://goEMAW.com/forum/index.php?topic=14197.0
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Let's wait for a conviction before we condemn him, mmmkay?
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The details according to the articles I have read are that he supposedly smashed a glass table with his shotgun and pointed it at his GF's face then called 911 when the cops first knocked on the door and claimed that the GF had gone crazy.
GF stated the above story to the cops. GZ said he didn't get the gun or do any of what she said and that she is crazy.
The GF needs to get one of those cams that you wear on your head at all times or something. I mean, the he said/she said thing has really worked out well for GZ in the past.
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She needs a Google Glass CNS.
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She needs a Google Glass CNS.
Nope. Needs a helmet cam. Seems like a helmet would benefit her in this relationship. Kinda a win/win. Record it all and not get as hurt next time the rage a holic gets raging.
Maybe with a riot face shield and bullet proof vest.
For reals, though, she would be smart to get a restraining order like yesterday.
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Bitches be after this guy. I think this girl was sent undercover by his ex-wife to take him down. poor bastard can't catch a break.
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He will shoot her eventually.
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
Just needs to wait for this "smashing the table with a shotgun and pointing it at her" nonesense to settle down, 60-90 days, then he can effectively murder her and say she was threatening him. SYG style.
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Let's wait for a conviction before we condemn him, mmmkay?
OK :lol:
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Bitches be after this guy. I think this girl was sent undercover by his ex-wife to take him down. poor bastard can't catch a break.
OK :lol:
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
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Bitches be after this guy. I think this girl was sent undercover by his ex-wife to take him down. poor bastard can't catch a break.
OK :lol:
:D
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi.imgur.com%2FdXBepYI.gif&hash=9ed27f7a0a62e6e0b3fb5d3cdcf136c5d3eec008)
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
He will be a hero to them until he murders someone on camera and there is not way to explain it away.
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
Yup. All those racists that love mexicans and hate african americans are getting outed. Kick their asses, ok cat!
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
Yup. All those racists that love mexicans and hate african americans are getting outed. Kick their asses, ok cat!
jfc fanning, keep up.
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
Yup. All those racists that love mexicans and hate african americans are getting outed. Kick their asses, ok cat!
They hate women and children, too.
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
Yup. All those racists that love mexicans and hate african americans are getting outed. Kick their asses, ok cat!
They hate women and children, too.
Agreed. Zimmerman is a total fat face and needs to be thrown in a ditch of lava.
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He said she was crazy and lying, OK_Cat. What don't you understand? She is a crazy woman who is pregnant. It is much more likely that she went into rage mode and shotgunned up the joint than it is GZ doing any of what she said.
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
Just needs to wait for this "smashing the table with a shotgun and pointing it at her" nonesense to settle down, 60-90 days, then he can effectively murder her and say she was threatening him. SYG style.
He was getting ready to shoot her. He called 911 and everything. Something must have happened to change his mind at the last second.
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
Just needs to wait for this "smashing the table with a shotgun and pointing it at her" nonesense to settle down, 60-90 days, then he can effectively murder her and say she was threatening him. SYG style.
He was getting ready to shoot her. He called 911 and everything. Something must have happened to change his mind at the last second.
It is probably too hard to break your own nose while still training a shot gun on a pregnant woman.
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
Just needs to wait for this "smashing the table with a shotgun and pointing it at her" nonesense to settle down, 60-90 days, then he can effectively murder her and say she was threatening him. SYG style.
He was getting ready to shoot her. He called 911 and everything. Something must have happened to change his mind at the last second.
It is probably too hard to break your own nose while still training a shot gun on a pregnant woman.
It's not hard at all, actually. Just stick the gun against your nose when you pull the trigger.
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You think you know someone, you know? Then the next thing you know, they're pointing a shotgun at you. So sad!
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You think you know someone, you know? Then the next thing you know, they're pointing a shotgun at you. So sad!
Maybe she wanted an abortion.
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how is this guy still allowed to own and threaten people with guns?
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He will shoot her eventually.
it's been an effective problem solving strategy so far, why not?
Just needs to wait for this "smashing the table with a shotgun and pointing it at her" nonesense to settle down, 60-90 days, then he can effectively murder her and say she was threatening him. SYG style.
He was getting ready to shoot her. He called 911 and everything. Something must have happened to change his mind at the last second.
It is probably too hard to break your own nose while still training a shot gun on a pregnant woman.
It's not hard at all, actually. Just stick the gun against your nose when you pull the trigger.
It was just a theory. GZ is probably still working though it in his head too.
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how is this guy still allowed to own and threaten people with guns?
America
-
"Hey! You point that shotgun at me 19, 20 more times, I'm outta here!" :lol:
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If they took his gun away, he would just knock up a girl who would buy one for him under his name.
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If they took his gun away, he would just knock up a girl who would buy one for him under his name.
He'd knock her teeth out if she said no.
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Sounds like he's already been firing a few shots with another girl pregnant and all. DUR DUR DUR DEE DURP...
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If the idiots down there could convict him he would not be able to legally possess guns.
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If the idiots down there could convict him he would not be able to legally possess guns.
Casey Anthony says hi!
-
A Florida judge on Tuesday set bail for George Zimmerman at $9,000 and ordered a number of conditions for his freedom -- including that he not possess weapons -- while he awaits trial on charges he pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend.
"I keep my gun in my boo purse"
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If they took his gun away, he would just knock up a girl who would buy one for him under his name.
straw sales are no joke
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i bet all the racists in this thread that defended him feel Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!). right?
Yup. All those racists that love mexicans and hate african americans are getting outed. Kick their asses, ok cat!
lolwut
-
How he has avoided getting killed yet is a little baffling to me.
-
Radio last night said he was also accused of trying to choke the GF a week earlier. Escalation. What is the next step up from pointing a gun in her face?
They said he is on an ankle monitor and banned from her house. I bet she has already forgiven him.
Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk 2
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Obviously she deserves to die, too.
-
Obviously she deserves to die, too.
'specially if she had been out Skittling. :Wha:
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A Florida judge on Tuesday set bail for George Zimmerman at $9,000 and ordered a number of conditions for his freedom -- including that he not possess weapons -- while he awaits trial on charges he pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend.
"I keep my gun in my boo purse"
lawyer types... is it common for judges to set conditions on bail like this? stud judge either way.
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Witlock just tweeted an article stating that GZ filmed his sexytime with the preg GF and that at one point GZ took still pics of said vid and would text them to the GFs young daughter.
Pretty shitty human being.
-
Witlock just tweeted an article stating that GZ filmed his sexytime with the preg GF and that at one point GZ took still pics of said vid and would text them to the GFs young daughter.
Pretty shitty human being.
liberal media
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Witlock just tweeted an article stating that GZ filmed his sexytime with the preg GF and that at one point GZ took still pics of said vid and would text them to the GFs young daughter.
Pretty shitty human being.
:sdeek:
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Witlock just tweeted an article stating that GZ filmed his sexytime with the preg GF and that at one point GZ took still pics of said vid and would text them to the GFs young daughter.
Pretty shitty human being.
what in the world :Lurk:
-
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/26/21627985-george-zimmerman-had-five-guns-when-arrested-police?lite
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A Florida judge on Tuesday set bail for George Zimmerman at $9,000 and ordered a number of conditions for his freedom -- including that he not possess weapons -- while he awaits trial on charges he pointed a shotgun at his girlfriend.
"I keep my gun in my boo purse"
lawyer types... is it common for judges to set conditions on bail like this? stud judge either way.
Yeah.
GZ's gonna get OJ'd here.
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A lot of you dumbasses jumped to conclusions.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527)
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A lot of you dumbasses jumped to conclusions.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527)
this is probably the last we'll hear from Mr. Zimmerman. Wrap this crap up, folks.
:ump:
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Oh man! She fell down the stairs and ran into a door.
-
A lot of you dumbasses jumped to conclusions.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527)
It's kind of funny how people who are actually good people in real life aren't constantly getting dragged into police stations.
-
A lot of you dumbasses jumped to conclusions.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527)
It's kind of funny how people who are actually good people in real life aren't constantly getting dragged into police stations.
Yeah. I've never once been arrested for domestic violence. I guess I've just been lucky because apparently innocent men get 911 called on them all of the time for no apparent reason.
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A lot of you dumbasses jumped to conclusions.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527 (http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zimmermans-girlfriend-drop-charges/story?id=21153527)
It's kind of funny how people who are actually good people in real life aren't constantly getting dragged into police stations.
Yeah. I've never once been arrested for domestic violence. I guess I've just been lucky because apparently innocent men get 911 called on them all of the time for no apparent reason.
I suppose if my girlfriend was batshit crazy I might get to spend more time in the slammer.
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Is my $200 donation to the Zimm defense fund tax deductible? TIA
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Is my $200 donation to the Zimm defense fund tax deductible? TIA
will look like chump change compared to what the NRA has already donated
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NOW maybe finallyhe can move into obscurity.
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She writes pretty well for a woman with a gun pointed at her head.
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Well, he either pointed a gun at her or she is crazy. If he is dating crazy people, I would have to think he has his own issues.
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I'd win if I was prosecuting this case, girlfriend flip or not. That's basically my 2003 big 12 championship story.
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Well, he either pointed a gun at her or she is crazy. If he is dating crazy people, I would have to think he has his own issues.
The crazy ones are always the best in bed tho. :sdeek:
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I don't think she's crazy. Women return to abusive relationships all the time and it's not like this is the first time George has been accused of domestic violence.
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I don't think she's crazy. Women return to abusive relationships all the time and it's not like this is the first time George has been accused of domestic violence.
Apologist.
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Man. I am such a good person and a model citizen. HOW do I keep ending up in police cars/court/jail cells??? I srsly cannot figure it out.
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:tongue:
Man. I am such a good person and a model citizen. HOW do I keep ending up in police cars/court/jail cells??? I srsly cannot figure it out.
It really is a bizarre deal, since a lot of people break the law every day and never get caught.
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:tongue:Man. I am such a good person and a model citizen. HOW do I keep ending up in police cars/court/jail cells??? I srsly cannot figure it out.
It really is a bizarre deal, since a lot of people break the law every day and never get caught.
Maybe George should try not calling 911 on himself.
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641 (http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641)
:love:
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641 (http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641)
:love:
He could probably add a zero or two to those bids if he would just put some bulletholes into his pieces of art before selling them.
-
http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641 (http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641)
:love:
Glad to see he found a better use for his hands than murdering kids and pummeling broads. :thumbs:
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641 (http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641)
:love:
He could probably add a zero or two to those bids if he would just put some bulletholes into his pieces of art before selling them.
My god! If he would paint it, actually take it to the range, and shoot it a few times with his Trayvon gun, he would sell those things like Playstation 4's.
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http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641 (http://gawker.com/george-zimmerman-is-selling-insanely-ironic-artwork-on-1484456641)
:love:
He could probably add a zero or two to those bids if he would just put some bulletholes into his pieces of art before selling them.
My god! If he would paint it, actually take it to the range, and shoot it a few times with his Trayvon gun, he would sell those things like Playstation 4's.
I would pay $500 for a Zimm piece with a few bullet holes in it.
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you have no shot ERII, even w/o bullet holes.
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-painting-ebay-20131217,0,1342850.story#axzz2nmAEDckv (http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-painting-ebay-20131217,0,1342850.story#axzz2nmAEDckv)
George Zimmerman made a painting; bidding on EBay nears $100,000
http://www.latimes.com/nation/nationnow/la-na-nn-george-zimmerman-painting-ebay-20131217,0,1342850.story#ixzz2nmAaYirS
If I was GZ, I would whip out a couple dozen rando art projects like yesterday and get rich right now.
Would also start a motivational speaking career and contact all the crazy groups in the nation. Capitalize now.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfRUVtBCQAAohj8.jpg)
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:emawkid:
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http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/30/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match/
Donating his cut to charity, though. Just an incredible human being.
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BfRUVtBCQAAohj8.jpg)
Very shrewd usage of the Oxford Comma by Hosie, there.
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Very shrewd usage of the Oxford Comma by Hosie, there.
Yes, stud.
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"Lined paper? BELLY LAUGH!! I'll write in whatever plane I want"
-Hosie
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Hosie is a gem
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http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/30/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match/
Donating his cut to charity, though. Just an incredible human being.
He should maybe think about donating it to the Martin family instead.
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http://youtu.be/4o_Pz-ZfyW4
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http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/30/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match/
Donating his cut to charity, though. Just an incredible human being.
He should maybe think about donating it to the Martin family instead.
As far as I can tell he saved them a bunch of money that would have been wasted on attorneys, fines, and underutilized college tuition.
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http://youtu.be/qYLIRlVxdqc
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Hosie. What a treat.
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http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/30/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match/
Donating his cut to charity, though. Just an incredible human being.
He should maybe think about donating it to the Martin family instead.
As far as I can tell he saved them a bunch of money that would have been wasted on attorneys, fines, and underutilized college tuition.
Is this the most racist statement on gE since bigwillies "obama is a dumb n-word" thread?
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http://www.tmz.com/2014/01/30/george-zimmerman-celebrity-boxing-match/
Donating his cut to charity, though. Just an incredible human being.
He should maybe think about donating it to the Martin family instead.
As far as I can tell he saved them a bunch of money that would have been wasted on attorneys, fines, and underutilized college tuition.
the eff is this crap
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Emo you got sum splainin' to do. :nono:
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Remind me to racist pos later if I forget
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also hosie is 38 :surprised:
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Man took you guys too long to bite that rig.
Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk
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Sorry, Hosie. He's fighting DMX.
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isn't DMX a 50 year old asthmatic? good choice by the gun guy.
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If gz kicks the absolute crap out of someone people will lose it
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isn't DMX a 50 year old asthmatic? good choice by the gun guy.
He was also filled the ancient rapper role on vh1's celebrity couples therapy a few seasons ago, taken currently by Ghostface Killa.
Hosie also seems to think he's on crack.
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isn't DMX a 50 year old asthmatic? good choice by the gun guy.
He was also filled the ancient rapper role on vh1's celebrity couples therapy a few seasons ago, taken currently by Ghostface Killa.
Hosie also seems to think he's on crack.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fi2.cdn.turner.com%2Fcnn%2Fdam%2Fassets%2F130821124258-dmx-mugshot-horizontal-gallery.jpg&hash=6d2c28d1e6946b5caaafeb6210f725392f81916f)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fblog.zap2it.com%2Fpop2it%2Fdmx-mug-shot-dui-tmz.jpg&hash=c8ba2522ed39a83c42f7d0a707a0b0e2d9f97aa4)
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He needs to get into training stat.
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And he's like 5 ft tall. GZ would smear my guy dmx :(
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By agreeing to and broadcasting a celebrity boxing match, people are furthering George Zimmerman's fame (or infamy). I kinda think it would be best to not indulge this person's desire for attention.
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By agreeing to and broadcasting a celebrity boxing match, people are furthering George Zimmerman's fame (or infamy). I kinda think it would be best to not indulge this person's desire for attention.
I don't think the fight will happen.
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By agreeing to and broadcasting a celebrity boxing match, people are furthering George Zimmerman's fame (or infamy). I kinda think it would be best to not indulge this person's desire for attention.
I don't think the fight will happen.
it won't and if it does it will be fixed, the promoter he is using has promoted staged celebrity boxing matches before. I'd hope dmx wouldn't take a payday to allow Zimmerman to make a mockery of Trayvon Martin.
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This is the promoter:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000662934477/4ecbd73981c37b749eb70ee3cb6156b3.jpeg)
https://twitter.com/hollywoodbox11
He won't be able to handle the backlash.
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looks like an upstart bounty hunter
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looks like a ufc fan
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Looks like a sad clown
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Only in America
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Only in America
didn't you tell me your mom sat next to DMX on a flight once?
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looks like the bastard love child of bo pelini and tonya harding
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(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fimg.tapatalk.com%2Fd%2F14%2F02%2F09%2Fegabenet.jpg&hash=1c3602d07d882ce91300437cfd58986854807307)
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The promoter adds, "Just looked at my son and daughter today wow I'm so lucky those people must be in so much pain ... all you people are right."
Unclear exactly what he meant by "those people" ... but probably a poor choice of words.
Read more: http://www.tmz.com/2014/02/08/george-zimmerman-fight-celebrity-boxing-cancelled-dmx/#ixzz2smwFWC16
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Trim should mail the mask to George and tell him to get to work.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321)
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Trim should mail the mask to George and tell him to get to work.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321)
Zimmerman blames the media and President Obama for the fact his life will not return to normal.
:shakesfist:
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maybe he should drop the PTSD and pick up an eating disorder.
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Trim should mail the mask to George and tell him to get to work.
http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321 (http://www.digitaljournal.com/news/crime/george-zimmerman-homeless-has-ptsd-and-still-receiving-threats/article/371321)
A mask.
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Looks like a sad clown
Creepy resemblance.
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Ffarm6.staticflickr.com%2F5508%2F10813628593_828326fc20_m.jpg&hash=d15fc7c05ead0101d32c96b17ade8600c2e0dda9)
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This is the promoter:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000662934477/4ecbd73981c37b749eb70ee3cb6156b3.jpeg)
https://twitter.com/hollywoodbox11
He won't be able to handle the backlash.
Kinda looks like he could be Dr. Z's bastard son, too.
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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/ (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/)
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http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/ (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/)
Kobe second most intelligent NBA'r ever?
-
http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/ (http://www.foxnews.com/sports/2014/03/28/kobe-bryant-takes-shots-for-comments-on-trayvon-martin/)
Kobe second most intelligent NBA'r ever?
is #1 larry bird or john stockton?
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I don't see anything wrong with what Kobe said. He's absolutely correct that Trayvon was wronged and the system didn't work.
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http://cjonline.com/news/2014-04-15/mother-trayvon-martin-speak-kansas-state
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into the lions den
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The event is free and open to the public. It is sponsored by the Student Governing Association and Alpha Phi Alpha, a historically black fraternity.
:facepalm:
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Regardless of what you think happened, this is a really cool thing that we got and if I were still I'm town I'd be in attendance.
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Get her a log in and let's host a Chat sesh
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http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/george-zimmerman-threatens-kill-driver-road-rage-incident-police-article-1.1937738
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www.stilldead.com/just.checked?=yephestillis (http://www.stilldead.com/just.checked?=yephestillis)
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Geez, George
http://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-arrested-aggravated-assault-charge-121216818.html?soc_src=mediacontentstory&soc_trk=fb
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good grief
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Prison is his only hope to stop beating women
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Rumblings that he's a huge cornhusker fan
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Why the eff does he have a girlfriend? Mind "bottling"
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Why the eff does he have a girlfriend? Mind "bottling"
its florida
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Now that Zimmerman has been publicly accused of beating three different women, are any of you who thought that he was justified in feeling that his life was in danger willing to say you were wrong about George?
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We would all be safer with Zimmerman behind bars. He will stand his ground to all of the women and children of this world that he can.
-
Now that Zimmerman has been publicly accused of beating three different women, are any of you who thought that he was justified in feeling that his life was in danger willing to say you were wrong about George?
Not too many of those on this thread.
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Now that Zimmerman has been publicly accused of beating three different women, are any of you who thought that he was justified in feeling that his life was in danger willing to say you were wrong about George?
Not too many of those on this thread.
There's enough
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Let's get to the bottom of this, MIR, and point these dumbasses out! :shakesfist:
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Now that Zimmerman has been publicly accused of beating three different women, are any of you who thought that he was justified in feeling that his life was in danger willing to say you were wrong about George?
Not too many of those on this thread.
There's enough
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fia.media-imdb.com%2Fimages%2FM%2FMV5BMzI1MjI5MDQyOV5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTcwNzE4Mjg3NA%40%40._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg&hash=18ca73bbdf83f79b8415b2a1bd2f45bc0a42f8e4)
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Now that Zimmerman has been publicly accused of beating three different women, are any of you who thought that he was justified in feeling that his life was in danger willing to say you were wrong about George?
Not too many of those on this thread.
to be fair to George, if you only fight with women I imagine you are scared to death of a fight with a teenage boy
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Seriously tho. What kind of daddy issues do you have to have to date Zimmerman?
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Seriously tho. What kind of daddy issues do you have to have to date Zimmerman?
I think his "celebrity" is working for him at this point
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Being an bad person and being afraid for your life don't seem mutually exclusive
-
(https://fbcdn-sphotos-d-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xfp1/v/t1.0-9/1549544_432433873582419_5596410940317122455_n.jpg?oh=19577a3ab98aa9c45316b53441293f4c&oe=558FB6AD&__gda__=1431632438_7262cb56b618e93992bba21e7c1e5bdf)
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http://www.kake.com/home/headlines/Police-George-Zimmerman-involved-in-shooting-in-Florida-303307541.html
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Look at the balls on George.
https://twitter.com/TherealGeorgeZ/status/636621742379769856
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jfc what a psycho
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lol
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Not real
-
damnit
-
It looks pretty real to me. George posts plenty of selfies on that account.
https://twitter.com/TherealGeorgeZ/status/636896627505131520
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It's real.
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It's real.
Thank you.
Wacky, I'll expect an apology from you by EOBD.
tia
-
D. Scott would be hella jelly of that jesus chain (and chest hair)
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I get a sick feeling that, from Zimm's perspective, killing Trayvon is the best thing he ever did.
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I get a sick feeling that, from Zimm's perspective, killing Trayvon is the best thing he ever did.
it absolutely was. look at how big of a loser he was prior to that. now look at how big of a loser he is now with tons of racist trash looking up to him.
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I get a sick feeling that, from Zimm's perspective, killing Trayvon is the best thing he ever did.
it absolutely was. look at how big of a loser he was prior to that. now look at how big of a loser he is now with tons of racist trash looking up to him.
he looks really happy
:barf:
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I get a sick feeling that, from Zimm's perspective, killing Trayvon is the best thing he ever did.
it absolutely was. look at how big of a loser he was prior to that. now look at how big of a loser he is now with tons of racist trash looking up to him.
he looks really happy
:barf:
did you guys see the video he was in where he was selling paintings at that florida gun shop smoking cigars at a picnic table in a swamp? He's livin' the dream.
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It's real.
Thank you.
Wacky, I'll expect an apology from you by EOBD.
tia
sorry. :frown:
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Thanks.
You avoided my Top 10 biggest jerks on goEMAW list this week. :)
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:Woohoo:
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eobd what kind of monster org uses that atrocious initialism?
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eobd what kind of monster org uses that atrocious initialism?
My boss puts that in almost every email.
"I need your TPS report by EOBD!"
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What does it even stand for?
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Dangerously close to EABOD
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What does it even stand for?
End Of Business Day
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i live in a COB world.
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i live in a COB world.
that's just corny
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i live in a COB world.
that's just corny
the world is not random
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Oh his latest rant was so much worse than those two tweets.
http://m.huffpost.com/us/entry/8052554?cps=gravity_5540_-1270685918277578277
Which do you like better him calling Obama a baboon or Trayvon Martin an idiot?
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I can't believe Zim is still vertical.
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/george-zimmerman-retweets-photo-of-trayvon-martins-body-posted-by-admirer/
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http://www.rawstory.com/2015/09/george-zimmerman-retweets-photo-of-trayvon-martins-body-posted-by-admirer/
I mean, that was the greatest thing that ever happened to him.
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Can someone just shoot this bitch already?
http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/twitter-finally-suspends-george-zimmerman-but-not-for-tweeting-trayvons-dead-body/
Also worth noting that revenge porn is illegal in Florida.
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He needs to die, now!
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:sdeek:
-
http://thescoopblog.dallasnews.com/2016/05/george-zimmerman-to-sell-gun-used-to-kill-trayvon-martin-help-fund-anti-clinton-effort.html/
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:sdeek:
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Why has no one killed him yet?
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GZ won't stop until he embarrasses every staunch defender of his
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Which is why EllRobersonIsInnocent stopped posting. Wow!
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The only thing they're embarrassed about is they can't afford to buy it
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:sdeek: :lol:
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He should consider getting a job
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He should consider getting a job
Who would hire him?
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He should consider getting a job
Who would hire him?
Chiefs front office
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He should consider getting a job
Who would hire him?
Chiefs front office
He's not good enough at football.
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He should consider getting a job
Who would hire him?
Chiefs front office
I'm sure they need security at the facility
He's not good enough at football.
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You know how I can tell someone is a huge dweeb? They use latin phrases in signing stuff
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Chiefs players shoot themselves, they don't need Zimmerman to do it for them #midwesternworketic
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all good points re: chiefs
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He needs to open a gun store, firing range(self defense range), and liquor store combo. Would make a killing.
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He needs to open a gun store, firing range(self defense range), and liquor store combo. Would make a killing.
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Don't forget the art gallery wing
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He needs to open a gun store, firing range(self defense range), and liquor store combo. Would make a killing.
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He should put a range together where you stalk your target and wait until it turns around to face you before you open fire.
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It's worth noting that George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today. He's an abhorrent piece of crap, but him murdering a kid still hasn't stopped our society from treating black men, and boys apparently, like dangerous big game animals.
You guys occasionally talk about white guilt, but if you really cared you'd feel a deep shame every single time this guy comes up. We live in a society where a man shot an unarmed kid smaller than that man and he got off on the defense that the kid looked threatening.
On a micro level even worse than this societal embarrassment is that people actually defend this and others still find this appropriate fodder for trolling. If that could have happened to Trayvon Martin, what black man should feel safe from being hunted in the street? I am a college educated, professional, with a wife and kids; but I'm about twice the size of Martin and about four shades darker. How many hunting points would I fetch if I decided to scare someone by taking a walk in the park?
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're way more likely to get shot by another black guy than a racist white guy. Statistically speaking.
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I don't have white guilt, because he's not white.
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It's worth noting that George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today. He's an abhorrent piece of crap, but him murdering a kid still hasn't stopped our society from treating black men, and boys apparently, like dangerous big game animals.
You guys occasionally talk about white guilt, but if you really cared you'd feel a deep shame every single time this guy comes up. We live in a society where a man shot an unarmed kid smaller than that man and he got off on the defense that the kid looked threatening.
On a micro level even worse than this societal embarrassment is that people actually defend this and others still find this appropriate fodder for trolling. If that could have happened to Trayvon Martin, what black man should feel safe from being hunted in the street? I am a college educated, professional, with a wife and kids; but I'm about twice the size of Martin and about four shades darker. How many hunting points would I fetch if I decided to scare someone by taking a walk in the park?
Point well taken, but I think anyone can condemn the actions and beliefs of racists without feeling any degree personal shame.
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I don't have white guilt, because he's not white.
what if i told you that he is white
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sorry bub, but i don't have to, and won't, answer to the actions of george zimmerman. there are ~200M non-hispanic whites in the us, if i were to feel deep shame every time one of them mumped up i would live a pretty depressing life.
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I looked this up. Seems like a lot of confusion between white-hispanic and/or peru. Whatever. Whitish, but whatever.
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I feel absolutely no shame as I had nothing to do with it.
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Does MIR have black shame for disallowing thousands of whites from making millions in professional sports?! :curse:
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MIAMI (AP) — Bidding in an online auction for the pistol former neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon Martin appeared to have been hijacked by fake accounts posting astronomically high bids.
At one point early Friday, the bidding surpassed $65 million with the leading bidder using the screen name "Racist McShootFace." The site later showed that account had been deleted.
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haha
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MIAMI (AP) — Bidding in an online auction for the pistol former neighborhood watch volunteer George Zimmerman used to kill Trayvon Martin appeared to have been hijacked by fake accounts posting astronomically high bids.
At one point early Friday, the bidding surpassed $65 million with the leading bidder using the screen name "Racist McShootFace." The site later showed that account had been deleted.
I just laughed. I hope that doesn't make me a racist.
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're way more likely to get shot by another black guy than a racist white guy. Statistically speaking.
It doesn't make me feel better because it isn't true in my case, nor was it for Trayvon Martin.
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It's worth noting that George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today. He's an abhorrent piece of crap, but him murdering a kid still hasn't stopped our society from treating black men, and boys apparently, like dangerous big game animals.
You guys occasionally talk about white guilt, but if you really cared you'd feel a deep shame every single time this guy comes up. We live in a society where a man shot an unarmed kid smaller than that man and he got off on the defense that the kid looked threatening.
On a micro level even worse than this societal embarrassment is that people actually defend this and others still find this appropriate fodder for trolling. If that could have happened to Trayvon Martin, what black man should feel safe from being hunted in the street? I am a college educated, professional, with a wife and kids; but I'm about twice the size of Martin and about four shades darker. How many hunting points would I fetch if I decided to scare someone by taking a walk in the park?
Point well taken, but I think anyone can condemn the actions and beliefs of racists without feeling any degree personal shame.
I'm not asking you to feel shame for George Zimmerman. I think that as a white man in America that you should feel a level of shame that "he looked scary" was a viable defense for murdering a black kid, and it happens a lot. White men created the atmosphere in which this narrative is allowed to exist and are the only ones that can prevent it.
I feel a shame that my people have contributed to the devaluation of black life to the point that people like _33 feel the need to bring up black on black crime as a rebuttal to a completely different conversation.
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What do you mean "my people."
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I recognize that what happened to Martin and the subsequent lack of justice that Zimmerman faced are shameful.
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I don't have white guilt, because he's not white.
I feel absolutely no shame as I had nothing to do with it.
sorry bub, but i don't have to, and won't, answer to the actions of george zimmerman.
George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today
Okay, I'll own not being more clear about my point. The actions of George Zimmerman should not make anyone but George Zimmerman and the people who testified in the trial about Martin looking threatening, feel guilty.
The guilt should be that very few people who can make a difference are willing to do anything to change the narrative that makes it acceptable to murder people who look scary.
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It's worth noting that George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today. He's an abhorrent piece of crap, but him murdering a kid still hasn't stopped our society from treating black men, and boys apparently, like dangerous big game animals.
You guys occasionally talk about white guilt, but if you really cared you'd feel a deep shame every single time this guy comes up. We live in a society where a man shot an unarmed kid smaller than that man and he got off on the defense that the kid looked threatening.
On a micro level even worse than this societal embarrassment is that people actually defend this and others still find this appropriate fodder for trolling. If that could have happened to Trayvon Martin, what black man should feel safe from being hunted in the street? I am a college educated, professional, with a wife and kids; but I'm about twice the size of Martin and about four shades darker. How many hunting points would I fetch if I decided to scare someone by taking a walk in the park?
Point well taken, but I think anyone can condemn the actions and beliefs of racists without feeling any degree personal shame.
I'm not asking you to feel shame for George Zimmerman. I think that as a white man in America that you should feel a level of shame that "he looked scary" was a viable defense for murdering a black kid, and it happens a lot. White men created the atmosphere in which this narrative is allowed to exist and are the only ones that can prevent it.
I feel a shame that my people have contributed to the devaluation of black life to the point that people like _33 feel the need to bring up black on black crime as a rebuttal to a completely different conversation.
I thought Trayvon got killed because he was kicking Zimmerman's ass.
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He wasn't convicted because of lack of evidence, not because trayvon "looked scary"
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Does MIR have black shame for disallowing thousands of whites from making millions in professional sports?! :curse:
If you either don't want to or you're incapable of having an actual constructive conversation about this why even try? You say something like this and if I give it the response it deserves you're going to victimize yourself and complain about people calling you a racist or something similar.
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It's worth noting that George Zimmerman didn't create the construct that made George Zimmerman what he is today. He's an abhorrent piece of crap, but him murdering a kid still hasn't stopped our society from treating black men, and boys apparently, like dangerous big game animals.
You guys occasionally talk about white guilt, but if you really cared you'd feel a deep shame every single time this guy comes up. We live in a society where a man shot an unarmed kid smaller than that man and he got off on the defense that the kid looked threatening.
On a micro level even worse than this societal embarrassment is that people actually defend this and others still find this appropriate fodder for trolling. If that could have happened to Trayvon Martin, what black man should feel safe from being hunted in the street? I am a college educated, professional, with a wife and kids; but I'm about twice the size of Martin and about four shades darker. How many hunting points would I fetch if I decided to scare someone by taking a walk in the park?
Point well taken, but I think anyone can condemn the actions and beliefs of racists without feeling any degree personal shame.
I'm not asking you to feel shame for George Zimmerman. I think that as a white man in America that you should feel a level of shame that "he looked scary" was a viable defense for murdering a black kid, and it happens a lot. White men created the atmosphere in which this narrative is allowed to exist and are the only ones that can prevent it.
I feel a shame that my people have contributed to the devaluation of black life to the point that people like _33 feel the need to bring up black on black crime as a rebuttal to a completely different conversation.
I thought Trayvon got killed because he was kicking Zimmerman's ass.
He wasn't convicted because of lack of evidence, not because trayvon "looked scary"
The entire incident began because of how Martin looked and a part of the defense and testimony from a couple of the defense's witnesses centered on how Martin looked. I'm not interested in going over the trial again, these two things are not in dispute.
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Does MIR have black shame for disallowing thousands of whites from making millions in professional sports?! :curse:
If you either don't want to or you're incapable of having an actual constructive conversation about this why even try? You say something like this and if I give it the response it deserves you're going to victimize yourself and complain about people calling you a racist or something similar.
I was just trying to lighten things up, bud. With this being a Joke board and all.
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I know if I'm feeling hunted in the park I take a page out of "The Most Dangerous Game" and fashion a knife to a sapling. Works every time.
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I think shame is wrong all together, unless you are a person who makes judgements based on someone else looking scary(or whatevs) and react in an outrageous way. That said, humans are a very tribal animal and it is a very real thing to be wary of those that are different.
The ability to be a rational human, and overcome certain subconscious queues or triggers is something that a very large amt of ppl seem to have trouble with. Maybe that is what should be shameful?
Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk
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I've always been curious and since MIR has insinuated that Zimmerman was a whitey..
How does someone that is of mixed race come to the conclusion of what race they identify as or that others identify them as?
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Whatever the media decides how they want to portray it, that's how it's decided.
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Things like this become a narrative because people start opining and generalizing with way less information than the 6 or 12 whatever jurors that decided the guy was not guilty based on his actions under the law.
So if you think the wrong result was reached in any of these cases I think it has to be for one (or more) of three reasons: Is the law wrong? Did the jurors get the facts wrong? Or are one or more of the jurors just bad people?
I have no clue in this case, so I can't say it was the wrong result.
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people start opining and generalizing with way less information than the 6 or 12 whatever jurors that decided the guy was not guilty based on his actions under the law.
:lol:
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omg
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're way more likely to get shot by another black guy than a racist white guy. Statistically speaking.
It doesn't make me feel better because it isn't true in my case, nor was it for Trayvon Martin.
I'm just saying it's probably fine if you want to take a walk in the park, I doubt you get murdered.
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Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're way more likely to get shot by another black guy than a racist white guy. Statistically speaking.
It doesn't make me feel better because it isn't true in my case, nor was it for Trayvon Martin.
I'm just saying it's probably fine if you want to take a walk in the park, I doubt you get murdered.
Your privilege provides you that comfort.
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You live in Iowa, MIR. It doesn't get more comfortable than that.
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You live in Iowa, MIR. It doesn't get more comfortable than that.
You're lost, read this and then tell us why where I live affirms my point.
Well, if it makes you feel any better, you're way more likely to get shot by another black guy than a racist white guy. Statistically speaking.
It doesn't make me feel better because it isn't true in my case, nor was it for Trayvon Martin.
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Don't feed the trolls MIR.
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Ppl in Iowa are way more affirmed to run away from you than come after you, MIR. They're terrified of you, because naive Midwestern white folk are what they are. Judgemental fools, that watch too many movies. Probably the safest place for you in the U.S.A.
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its safe to be in a place where people are afraid of you? interesting, if true.
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I lived in Iowa for four years. In this case it's a yes.
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Also, very important for ppl to know that not every African American walks around feeling like it's 1960. Not everyone is filled with hate over white ppl, thinking you owe them something, for something their long lost ancestors did a long rough ridin' time ago.
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what if i told you that george zimmerman was afraid of trayvon martin?
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I would tell you that a random Hispanic-American who's rough ridin' crazy, found a way to kill someone and get away with it. Happens every day unfortunately, but somehow this is the racism hill that everyone wants to die on. What if I told you there's tons of cases of African Americans killing white ppl everyday, but the media can't find a way to spin it for the hearing impaired?!!$ :horrorsurprise:
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I would tell you that a random Hispanic-American who's rough ridin' crazy, found a way to kill someone and get away with it. Happens every day unfortunately, but somehow this is the racism hill that everyone wants to die on. What if I told you there's tons of cases of African Americans killing white ppl everyday, but the media can't find a way to spin it for the hearing impaired?!!$ :horrorsurprise:
Tons?
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I recently saw 4 African Americans curb stomp a white person at Martini corner and then take his wallet. Where's the outrage? None. Pretty common scene. I didn't scream racism tho, maybe that rough rider had it coming.
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'Clams, what if I told you ppl are terrified of Giants and just assume you're a bad person, instead of a tall teddy bear?
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I'm scared of 'clams fwiw. Mir too
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I'm scared of 'clams fwiw. Mir too
white privileged. Smdh
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You're probably scared of MIR because he's overly aggressive, not because he's black to be fair.
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I'm scared of 'clams fwiw. Mir too
'clams is just a giant horse head wearing teddy bear.
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You're probably scared of MIR because he's overly aggressive, not because he's black to be fair.
LOL, he's met me before, dumbass.
I'm not sure if your performance in this thread should make it easier or harder to accept the harmless idiot role you play and the excuse frequently given for the outrageous and reprehensible stuff you say.
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I would think it would make it easier
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120k!
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120k!
Nope
https://twitter.com/racistmcshotfaz/status/732964969675902976
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http://pix11.com/2016/08/04/george-zimmerman-punched-for-restaurant-brag-about-killing-trayvon-martin-police-say/
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Just came to post that. Lmbo @ gz
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
Weird post
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I hope you guys actually read the article before zapping to another lib^7 encounter. T's & P's to lib^7's down time. He's super hammered tonight. :bawl:
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I hope you guys actually read the article before zapping to another lib^7 encounter. T's & P's to lib^7's down time. He's super hammered tonight. :bawl:
Weirder post
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:lol:
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If I were a juror, I'd have a very hard time convicting the guy who punched George in the face.
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Zimmerman said he was trying to explain to the others at his table that he shot Martin in self-defense when “a large man” approached and asked, “You’re bragging about that?” before striking Zimmerman in the face with his fist.
“He said he’s going to kill me,” Zimmerman told the operator. “You need to send like three or four cops.”
"But then a few guys saw differently at this restaurant, during this time in our country"
Don't like the dude, but lib is automatic bait for lib agenda stories. Sigh.
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Zimmerman seems to be in the wrong place at the wrong time an awful lot. Terrible luck.
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Nobody is saying that, but at this point, he's a dead man walking, whether these stories are true or not.
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What agenda did that local news story have?
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What agenda did that local news story have?
Sounds like they storied some bar talk, with threats. But somehow that mother rough rider (gz) is acting up again by no named (credible) sources. eff that guy!
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Why did gz call the police, say someone is going to kill him and ask for 3 or 4 cops to be sent? Is it your belief that information is false?
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Do you think the police investigating is just made up?
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Why did gz call the police, say someone is going to kill him and ask for 3 or 4 cops to be sent? Is it your belief that information is false?
I have feeling he's a high target no matter what he says these days. Rather real or made up.
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In no doubt do I think gz isn't a POS, but I'm not going to believe every encounter he's seen since then as pure. If you do, you're naive.
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Obviously you're entitled to your opinion, wackycat08, but I just don't see an agenda or motive to "make up" this story.
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if you walk after killing someone, even in legit self-defense, the next 15 people to sock you in the face should get to walk too.
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I recently saw 4 African Americans curb stomp a white person at Martini corner and then take his wallet. Where's the outrage? None. Pretty common scene. I didn't scream racism tho, maybe that rough rider had it coming.
Why didn't you do anything? Seriously.
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
You think they would have wanted to split the money 5 ways instead of 4?
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
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I recently saw 4 African Americans curb stomp a white person at Martini corner and then take his wallet. Where's the outrage? None. Pretty common scene. I didn't scream racism tho, maybe that rough rider had it coming.
Why didn't you do anything? Seriously.
I was in a cab and I didn't feel like getting my ass kicked for no reason. Even the bouncer sat there and watched it. I wish I was superman, but I am not.
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
So now that you're (probably) not faced, can you explain what this post is referring to in relation to the link I posted?
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
So now that you're (probably) not faced, can you explain what this post is referring to in relation to the link I posted?
George zimmerman is mexican and Trayvon was black? :dunno:
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Oh. Ok
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I'm only about 7 minutes into the call but Zimmerman says the guy who punched him was white and that the white guy accused Zimm of being a "ni--er-lover." Zimm just can't catch a break w/anybody, I guess.
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/george-zimmerman-punched-face-trayvon-martin-bragging/
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-george-zimmerman-punched-face-20160804-story.html
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Oh man! I bet the cops laughed for a good minute or so after that, during the call.
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It sounds like this guy at the Diner decided to #standhisground
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George Zimmerman: too much trouble to fit in at swampside fine-dining establishment, Gators.
Zimmerman had been to the restaurant at least once before the incident, but Winters said Gators Riverside asked him not to come back after the debacle.
“Everywhere this guy goes he causes controversy,” Winters said. “You’d think he’d keep a low profile.”
People that are able to enjoy Gators without causing a scene:
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatorsriversidegrille.com%2Fuploads%2F3%2F8%2F9%2F4%2F3894832%2F3418377_orig.jpg&hash=46c1febffd2c941b903412270b7011769cc1952e)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatorsriversidegrille.com%2Fuploads%2F3%2F8%2F9%2F4%2F3894832%2F9387799_orig.jpg&hash=ddbc76f5c5a754a8e4b7f94fe9502b51bd9797bc)
(https://goemaw.com/forum/proxy.php?request=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gatorsriversidegrille.com%2Fuploads%2F3%2F8%2F9%2F4%2F3894832%2F802869_orig.jpg&hash=5e27d3f28893b9296a764d0fdf6d010af73c8b7d)
http://www.gatorsriversidegrille.com/photo-gallery.html
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
How do you pick which people you're going to start punching? Or do you just always go with the underdog?
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SDK is a man of the people. Runs into burning buildings, jumps in front of crossfire, etc.
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I'm only about 7 minutes into the call but Zimmerman says the guy who punched him was white and that the white guy accused Zimm of being a "ni--er-lover." Zimm just can't catch a break w/anybody, I guess.
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/george-zimmerman-punched-face-trayvon-martin-bragging/
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-george-zimmerman-punched-face-20160804-story.html
Made up
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
So now that you're (probably) not faced, can you explain what this post is referring to in relation to the link I posted?
George zimmerman is mexican and Trayvon was black? :dunno:
Gladys Zimmerman was born in Peru and has some black ancestry, through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather.
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I'm only about 7 minutes into the call but Zimmerman says the guy who punched him was white and that the white guy accused Zimm of being a "ni--er-lover." Zimm just can't catch a break w/anybody, I guess.
http://www.dailydot.com/layer8/george-zimmerman-punched-face-trayvon-martin-bragging/
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/breaking-news/os-george-zimmerman-punched-face-20160804-story.html
Made up
Yeah, case closed. Totally landed the other side of the story.
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
So now that you're (probably) not faced, can you explain what this post is referring to in relation to the link I posted?
George zimmerman is mexican and Trayvon was black? :dunno:
Gladys Zimmerman was born in Peru and has some black ancestry, through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather.
Media fabrication
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
How do you pick which people you're going to start punching? Or do you just always go with the underdog?
If it's four on one. I always at least attempt to make it a fair fight. Always have always will. Especially in a scene such as this.
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Take it to the pit and create a shitty Mexican vs blacks agenda down there, dorks.
So now that you're (probably) not faced, can you explain what this post is referring to in relation to the link I posted?
George zimmerman is mexican and Trayvon was black? :dunno:
Gladys Zimmerman was born in Peru and has some black ancestry, through her Afro-Peruvian maternal grandfather.
Media fabrication
So he's not white? Case closed.
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SDK is a man of the people. Runs into burning buildings, jumps in front of crossfire, etc.
No. But I have intervened a few times when one guy is getting held down while another guy is pummeling him. eff that crap and eff people who stand by and watch.
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What if I told you one of them had a gun? :surprised:
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"mexican" = "peruvian" = "not white"
-WackyCat
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What if I told you one of them had a gun? :surprised:
I'd knock him out first with whatever was handy.
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
How do you pick which people you're going to start punching? Or do you just always go with the underdog?
If it's four on one. I always at least attempt to make it a fair fight. Always have always will. Especially in a scene such as this.
What if the one guy was a suicide bomber and several young men were trying to apprehend him?
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I really hope this goes to trial so we can see the whole cast of Thursday Night Gators up on the stand.
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What if I told you one of them had a gun? :surprised:
Just shoot him.
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I can't stand onlookers. If something unjust is happening, do your best to rectify it. Had I witnessed such an encounter, I'd have joined the fray.
People can be such cowards.
How do you pick which people you're going to start punching? Or do you just always go with the underdog?
If it's four on one. I always at least attempt to make it a fair fight. Always have always will. Especially in a scene such as this.
What if the one guy was a suicide bomber and several young men were trying to apprehend him?
I'm not a moron. Actually quite observant. There are no absolutes.
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"mexican" = "peruvian" = "not white"
-WackyCat
whew, thank god
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What's your point, KK?
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I agree. every time I see a barfight, I lick my lips and think to myself "this looks like a fracas I should involve myself in."
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What's your point, KK?
"Mexican" as a catch all term for brown people is maybe not the best. For one thing, it isn't accurate, and for another it leaves the impression with your audience that distinctions between "other" groups of people are insignificant and unworthy of your care and attention.
"Mexican" means "person from Mexico." Like "Kansan" means "person from Kansas" or "American" means "person from somewhere in the Americas." Googling "George Zimmerman" and seeing that his mother is Peruvian and not Mexican is a small chore that prevents this kind of carelessness. It also prevents you from looking like a dumb bad person.
Just food for thought!
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So true
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I don't think the Peruvians want George around either.
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I don't think the Peruvians want George around either.
Peruvians I know have decided that since he is clearly more than 25% douchebag, it is clearly the white part that is the problem.
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Winters owns a restaurant in Florida???
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"American" means "person from somewhere in the Americas."
it usually means person from the united states of america. the only time i've heard anyone use american to mean person from the americas is in discussions with butthurt latin americans who never use american to mean person from the americas except in butthurt discussions over the meaning of the word american.
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Peruvians I know have decided that since he is clearly more than 25% douchebag, it is clearly the white part that is the problem.
why is it so hard for americans to distinguish between nationality and race? you're actually conflating the two in a discussion arising from how wacky was a dumbass to conflate the two. good god.
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"American" means "person from somewhere in the Americas."
it usually means person from the united states of america. the only time i've heard anyone use american to mean person from the americas is in discussions with butthurt latin americans who never use american to mean person from the americas except in butthurt discussions over the meaning of the word american.
I agree. Words often have multiple meanings!:
prescriptivist: "person from the Americas"
descriptivist: "person from USA"
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Words often have multiple meanings!
in this case, the meaning you didn't choose is meant about 95% of the time. among native english speakers it is meant about 99.9% of the time.
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Peruvians I know have decided that since he is clearly more than 25% douchebag, it is clearly the white part that is the problem.
why is it so hard for americans to distinguish between nationality and race? you're actually conflating the two in a discussion arising from how wacky was a dumbass to conflate the two. good god.
Come to think of it they do often leave out the option of Peruvian on most of those ethnicity questionnaires
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Come to think of it they do often leave out the option of Peruvian on most of those ethnicity questionnaires
it's some bullshit.
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Winters owns a restaurant in Florida???
Not that kind of Winters.
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I agree. every time I see a barfight, I lick my lips and think to myself "this looks like a fracas I should involve myself in."
Good gravy. I'm talking about out on the street. Not in a situation that will be resolved quickly. Smdh.
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All lives definitely matter equally, this happens to white dudes on the reg
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/hoodlums-911-call-chad-copley-charged-in-black-mans-murder-kouren-rodney-thomas-raleigh/
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Slobber hasn't posted since this shooting happened....
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Look at the balls on this piece of crap.
George Zimmerman Sues Trayvon Martin’s Family https://news.yahoo.com/george-zimmerman-sues-trayvon-martin-223023849.html?soc_src=hl-viewer&soc_trk=ma
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I don't have anything to say that won't get me arrested or on a watch list.
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Smdh
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https://twitter.com/newsguygreg/status/1230152632976588800?s=21
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