"Obamacare"

[star seed 7]

Seriously though, 180k/year for an individual is a lot of money unless you're a rough ridin' idiot. (this is not a commentary on how much someone who earns that much should pay in taxes)

True, it's like what...  6 times the National average?

You only get to keep about half of that.

lol if you make that and somehow only keep half you seriously need to fire your accountant.

Well, duh.  But its funny coming from a lib. Pay your fair share and all that stuff.

I'm honestly not sure how it's possible to have an effective tax rate that high with that income even if you don't take advantage of any deductions.

a popular neocon talking point is that the middle class are taxed at a 50-70 percent rate.  it doesn't matter to them that this isn't true, they just repeat it over and over again.

[gatoveintisiete]

Yeah, i wasn't really talking about 180k, that would probably come out around 30-35%

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Seriously though, 180k/year for an individual is a lot of money unless you're a rough ridin' idiot. (this is not a commentary on how much someone who earns that much should pay in taxes)

True, it's like what...  6 times the National average?

You only get to keep about half of that.

lol if you make that and somehow only keep half you seriously need to fire your accountant.

Well, duh.  But its funny coming from a lib. Pay your fair share and all that stuff.

I'm honestly not sure how it's possible to have an effective tax rate that high with that income even if you don't take advantage of any deductions.

Now that the Scotus has deemed obamacare as a tax, we need to include healthcare premiums in tax rates.

[sys]

this thread never fails to disappoint.  and still no one has watched the video i linked.   

[michigancat]

Seriously though, 180k/year for an individual is a lot of money unless you're a rough ridin' idiot. (this is not a commentary on how much someone who earns that much should pay in taxes)

True, it's like what...  6 times the National average?

You only get to keep about half of that.

lol if you make that and somehow only keep half you seriously need to fire your accountant.

Well, duh.  But its funny coming from a lib. Pay your fair share and all that stuff.

I'm honestly not sure how it's possible to have an effective tax rate that high with that income even if you don't take advantage of any deductions.

Now that the Scotus has deemed obamacare as a tax, we need to include healthcare premiums in tax rates.

Ha, I still don't know how you could possibly get to 50%.

[michigancat]

this thread never fails to disappoint.  and still no one has watched the video i linked.   

I'm going to watch it. But, you know. Thirty minutes.

[Rage Against the McKee]

this thread never fails to disappoint.  and still no one has watched the video i linked.   

I watched it, sys. I thought it might have been overly simplified, but then again, the economy really is much simpler than most of us try to make it. It was a fun watch.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Seriously though, 180k/year for an individual is a lot of money unless you're a rough ridin' idiot. (this is not a commentary on how much someone who earns that much should pay in taxes)

True, it's like what...  6 times the National average?

You only get to keep about half of that.

lol if you make that and somehow only keep half you seriously need to fire your accountant.

Well, duh.  But its funny coming from a lib. Pay your fair share and all that stuff.

I'm honestly not sure how it's possible to have an effective tax rate that high with that income even if you don't take advantage of any deductions.

Now that the Scotus has deemed obamacare as a tax, we need to include healthcare premiums in tax rates.

Ha, I still don't know how you could possibly get to 50%.

It wouldn't be that high. It might be approaching 50% if you took no deductions, figured in FICA, added property tax, as well as state taxes and sales tax, though. Of course, the same can be said for the poor people who "pay nothing".

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Seriously though, 180k/year for an individual is a lot of money unless you're a rough ridin' idiot. (this is not a commentary on how much someone who earns that much should pay in taxes)

True, it's like what...  6 times the National average?

You only get to keep about half of that.

lol if you make that and somehow only keep half you seriously need to fire your accountant.

Well, duh.  But its funny coming from a lib. Pay your fair share and all that stuff.

I'm honestly not sure how it's possible to have an effective tax rate that high with that income even if you don't take advantage of any deductions.

It is more than possible. I'm not just talking about income tax, I said all taxes in one form or another. Totaling all state and federal income tax, FICA, property tax, and estimated sales tax, my effective tax rate (all taxes paid divided by all income) was about 37% last year. This does not include the additional "hidden" indirect taxes, like the ones that the evil corporations pass along to us in the form of higher prices, the new taxes that will likely be levied upon my current health benefits, etc.

Anyway this was a fun diversion, but back on topic, Obamacare is a complete disaster, amiright? Now the (evil) Aetna CEO is chiming in.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I don't know if one of you is talking about effective federal income tax rate and the other about holistic tax liability and your both too stupid to realize what the other is saying or what.

Its not hard to contemplate only taking home 50% of what you make if all your earnings are wages or SE income.
State Income Tax of 5-12%
FICA of 7.65% (double if SE)
Sales Tax of 7-8% of everything you buy (assume you spend 20% of take home that ~1.5% of earnings)
Property Tax (if you own a house and car worth 400k total that's another 8k in taxes so assume 2-3% earnings)
City Income tax (I think KCMO is 1%)

Right there you're at 17%+ and you haven't even included actual federal income tax or myriad other hidden taxes that you pay for (tolls, excise tax, govt fees, charges embedded in your utility bills, aforementioned insurance) .  If you live in a state with high income and property tax 50% tax obligation is not far fetched at all.

[michigancat]

I don't know if one of you is talking about effective federal income tax rate and the other about holistic tax liability and your both too stupid to realize what the other is saying or what.

Its not hard to contemplate only taking home 50% of what you make if all your earnings are wages or SE income.
State Income Tax of 5-12%
FICA of 7.65% (double if SE)
Sales Tax of 7-8% of everything you buy (assume you spend 20% of take home that ~1.5% of earnings)
Property Tax (if you own a house and car worth 400k total that's another 8k in taxes so assume 2-3% earnings)
City Income tax (I think KCMO is 1%)

Right there you're at 17%+ and you haven't even included actual federal income tax or myriad other hidden taxes that you pay for (tolls, excise tax, govt fees, charges embedded in your utility bills, aforementioned insurance) .  If you live in a state with high income and property tax 50% tax obligation is not far fetched at all.

Exactly. At 180k your effective federal tax rate is 22% assuming zero deductions, and 39% is still A LONG WAY from 50%. You would really have to try your damnedest to find another $20k of taxes to get to this made up 50% tax rate.

[michigancat]

basically, I think you can make your point without making crap up.

[Fake Sugar Dick (WARNING, NOT THE REAL SUGAR DICK!)]

I don't know if one of you is talking about effective federal income tax rate and the other about holistic tax liability and your both too stupid to realize what the other is saying or what.

Its not hard to contemplate only taking home 50% of what you make if all your earnings are wages or SE income.
State Income Tax of 5-12%
FICA of 7.65% (double if SE)
Sales Tax of 7-8% of everything you buy (assume you spend 20% of take home that ~1.5% of earnings)
Property Tax (if you own a house and car worth 400k total that's another 8k in taxes so assume 2-3% earnings)
City Income tax (I think KCMO is 1%)

Right there you're at 17%+ and you haven't even included actual federal income tax or myriad other hidden taxes that you pay for (tolls, excise tax, govt fees, charges embedded in your utility bills, aforementioned insurance) .  If you live in a state with high income and property tax 50% tax obligation is not far fetched at all.

Exactly. At 180k your effective federal tax rate is 22% assuming zero deductions, and 39% is still A LONG WAY from 50%. You would really have to try your damnedest to find another $20k of taxes to get to this made up 50% tax rate.

Well it would be 39%+, based on what I typed above.  If you lived in Cali it would be 48%+ (~9% effective rate).  At 180k youll need a eff load of deductions to drop a marginal rate and substantially alter your effective rate.  Also, AMT. So, you're wrong, per usual.

[sys]

I watched it, sys. I thought it might have been overly simplified, but then again, the economy really is much simpler than most of us try to make it. It was a fun watch.

thanks, that makes me really happy.

[michigancat]

I watched it, sys. I thought it might have been overly simplified, but then again, the economy really is much simpler than most of us try to make it. It was a fun watch.

thanks, that makes me really happy.

I watched it, too. It's crazy how you never hear anyone talk about long-term debt cycles that way.

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

Another of the Kos Kidz gets smacked in the face with reality... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/30/1242660/-Obamacare-will-double-my-monthly-premium# 

My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don't go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife's rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any rough ridin' penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

Some of the comments are priceless. A lot of "well, the insurance you had before was probably sub-standard" and "we've all got to do our share."

[gatoveintisiete]

 Young people and middle class folks are gonna be so pissed, it's probably why the sites are down until the shutdown threat on aca is gone.

[john "teach me how to" dougie]

Another of the Kos Kidz gets smacked in the face with reality... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/30/1242660/-Obamacare-will-double-my-monthly-premium# 

My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don't go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife's rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any rough ridin' penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

Some of the comments are priceless. A lot of "well, the insurance you had before was probably sub-standard" and "we've all got to do our share."

He won't have a choice whether or not  to pay the penalty, it will be withheld from his tax refund.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Another of the Kos Kidz gets smacked in the face with reality... http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/30/1242660/-Obamacare-will-double-my-monthly-premium# 

My wife and I just got our updates from Kaiser telling us what our 2014 rates will be. Her monthly has been $168 this year, mine $150. We have a high deductible. We are generally healthy people who don't go to the doctor often. I barely ever go. The insurance is in case of a major catastrophe.

Well, now, because of Obamacare, my wife's rate is gong to $302 per month and mine is jumping to $284.

I am canceling insurance for us and I am not paying any rough ridin' penalty. What the hell kind of reform is this?

Some of the comments are priceless. A lot of "well, the insurance you had before was probably sub-standard" and "we've all got to do our share."

He won't have a choice whether or not  to pay the penalty, it will be withheld from his tax refund.

He could always just file a false tax report and hope he doesn't get audited.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I think all anyone really needs to understand is that the Federal Gov't will collect more tax revenue than ever, and yet will fall short of paying it's bills this FY by around $800 to $900 billion dollars.

So we will be about $300 to $400 billion better than last year?

[8manpick]

I think all anyone really needs to understand is that the Federal Gov't will collect more tax revenue than ever, and yet will fall short of paying it's bills this FY by around $800 to $900 billion dollars.

Isn't this talking point at least in some part due to having a larger working force than ever before as a result of an ever growing population? Not saying that the $.8T deficit is good by any means, but I think the 'most revenue' talking point is somewhere between misleading and dishonest.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Revenue and spending should both increase annually. Revenue increases need to outpace spending increases until the deficit becomes more manageable.

I don't really think anybody in Washington cares about the deficit, though. If the republicans cared, they wouldn't have shut down the government over the last 2 weeks for no apparent reason.

[8manpick]

How is the discussion of having record revenue, and yet still having near record deficits, being dishonest??

I don't consider having a $300 to $400 billion dollar lower deficit than the previous year a paticularly positive talking point,

Seems like at least 300 to 400 billion off the record and making progress in the right direction

[OregonSmock]

If interest rates on your credit card were close to 0%, would you try to pay it off all at once, or would you just make minimum payments until the day you died?  In the case of the United States, we're not going to die any time soon.

[theKSU]

The impact of Obamacare on the economy is unknown and so far not trending towards the positive given the number of layoffs, cutbacks etc. etc. that are already being announced almost soully because of Obamacare.

Employers don't even have a mandate this year, so not sure why this is happening. Do you have sources?