StL County Cops Shoot Teen

[420seriouscat69]

Welp...

Brad Essex?@BradEssex·20s
Al Sharpton is a racist and hate black people!

[Dugout DickStone]

Police are supposed to shoot to kill so the number of shots is irrelevant IMO.

Why he pulled a gun in the first place is the biggest question.

Really?  I thought they tried to knock a perp down sometimes.  I could be wrong though.

I could be mistaken.  I am remembering my DARE officer talking about it.  I'm pretty that when they are trained they shoot to kill when they shoot though.

cops are trained to shoot center mass.  It is the highest force on the continuum of force available to a LEO and has fairly strict standards.  Its important to remember the escalation of force isnt a chess match and force is employed to overcome a threat, not to equal it.

And the head is not center mass.

[EllRobersonisInnocent]

The knife guy sounds like "suicide by cop."  He wanted to get killed.  Totally different situation, and I hope it doesn't get wrapped into this.

Actually it sounds like "murder by cop".

[michigancat]

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

[SdK]

I'd think clubbing a guy would be more gratifying.

[SdK]

All the talk earlier about opportunists, someone should have used the UPS slogan in their responses.

[420seriouscat69]

Rubber bullet right to the face.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

[Rage Against the McKee]

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

[SdK]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

 

[K-S-U-Wildcats!]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

[SdK]

If all the officers are good for is verbal commands and killing people. I'd rather they weren't cops. I've been stabbed. It's not that bad. Sack up fellas.

[SdK]

http://www.thegatewaypundit.com/2014/08/breaking-report-po-darren-wilson-suffered-orbital-blowout-fracture-to-eye-socket-during-encounter-with-mike-brown/

Eye for eye, you think then?


P.S. he didn't get his socket blown out.

[The1BigWillie]

PROBLEM SOLVED!!!

http://gizmodo.com/ferguson-police-will-finally-get-the-one-device-they-re-1623312960/+laceydonohue

[michigancat]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

yeah no one said it was the same thing. I mean, the guy is just as dead as Brown and the guys that killed him were also cops, but everyone recognizes differences between the cases.

That being said, I think every time a cop kills a citizen (knife-wielding or otherwise) it deserves serious scrutiny.

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

I'm fine with rubber bullets or tasers, too, I was just curious about baton use, that's all.

[MakeItRain]

starkly and profoundly wtong at every level.

First I asked you about the lawyer directly and you diflected with a it does matter he is a pro quip no way black dudes would be self promoters.  When asked about you diflected with a racist remark about how white people all think blacks have elected leadership and group meetings.  Totally offensive response which promoted nothing but ignorance and was only subterfuge to duck the serious issues with exploiters like Jackson (who rightly so are being booed by the black comminity because these men see these events as fundraisers.)  Which leads to the final note that thesr situatuons can lead to alot of money via speaking fees, fundraising for foundations, future clients (wrong about sealed settlements) and a number of other avenues.

Dude, I answered every question you asked, you just didn't like the answer.

So do you disagree that there is a divide, and possibly a growing one, between black leaders (like A Jackson/Sharpton), and black communities?  That maybe their, the leader's, motives don't always coincide with the goals of the community they rush to represent?  Do you find any of the resentment of leaders like Jackson or Sharpton from the right to carry any weight or is it a total slander operation to discredit movements from disadvantaged communities which are agitating for more enfranchisement?

I don't even know what/who "black leaders" are, that's some crap that white people made up as a means to feel like we need spokespeople. Who are white leaders, hispanic leaders, asian leaders? Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton are individuals who make individual decisions to sometimes speak out or act about things that sometimes get the attention of mass media, sometimes not. We don't have meetings where they tell us what they are going to say and do. Any agreements, disagreements, games of backgammon, etc. are decisions of individuals, I cannot speak as any collective. I don't know any black people that give much thought to Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson, so I can't tell you about any divide in "black communities" (also a completely ambitious term, doesn't really mean anything, I'm black, very black, and I have no idea which black community I'm a member of). I know a lot of people made fun of Al Sharpton for being a snitch, but I mostly saw that on social media. I think the only person I had a conversation about it with was a white dude.


What the hell does this have to do with Benjamin Crump?

No, the "black community" did not boo Jesse Jackson, some people at that press conference booed Jesse Jackson. Why do you keep on insisting on putting us in groupings? In essence this entire conversation is you trying to put us in groups, when I tell you not to do it, you get mad and tell me that either I'm wrong or are ducking your hard hitting questions. I asked you several questions as it pertains to this that you didn't answer, who are the while leaders, hispanic leaders, asian leaders? What is a "black community?" Are you talking about the people of Ferguson, if so why are you asking me how they feel about people, I haven't taken a poll? If you are referring to the people of Ferguson why are you splitting out the black component?

Also I'm wrong about Crump asking about the Martin/Zimmerman civil settlement remain sealed? Okay buddy.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/2013-04-15/news/os-trayvon-hoa-settlement-crump-argument-20130415_1_sybrina-fulton-trayvon-martin-benjamin-crump
I'm sure the Orlando Sentinel's also wrong.

All of those reasons you listed that Crump has to gain for doing pro bono work could be transferred to every attorney ever.

more racism from MiR bug surprise.   I never put black people into groupings.  But its absurd to say that. Certain leaders in the black community havent generated an enormous amounty of gravity through their groups and activism.  I never asked you about what blacks thought.  I asked about your views on those centers of gravity and how they interact positively and negatively.  Your racism, based on facts you assume im sure, has attempted to deflect self evaluation through red herrings like "who are the white or hispanic leaders".  The questions were designed to ask questions of members here to further discourse to find personal views.


And the point about the sealed settlements was that silence isnt bad, not the status of one case.

I don't think you know what racism is, you should look it up. You said that you aren't grouping black people and then in the very next sentence once again used the term "black community." I will ask again, what is the black community and how do you get a community without placing black people into groups. I'm also certain you don't know what the term red herring means. Asking you who the white leaders, hispanic leaders, and asian leaders were used to back up my point that using the phrase black leaders and assigning them to anyone is ridiculous. The fact that their isn't "leaders" of those other groups is evidence that assigning black leaders is a ridiculous exercise. I'm willing to bet that literally everyone else reading this understands this point but you refuse to give in.

A black person is telling you that himself and every other black person he knows personally don't see these dudes as leaders and to stop placing us in a community as if we all think the same but you continue to argue with me. Of all of the and  moments you've had on this board, this one is the most unbelievable to me.

[Mr Bread]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

yeah no one said it was the same thing. I mean, the guy is just as dead as Brown and the guys that killed him were also cops, but everyone recognizes differences between the cases.

That being said, I think every time a cop kills a citizen (knife-wielding or otherwise) it deserves serious scrutiny.

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

I'm fine with rubber bullets or tasers, too, I was just curious about baton use, that's all.

If a crazy person with a knife wouldn't stop coming after me and I had a gun and I had a baton, I don't think I'd resort to the baton first.  I mean assuming I'm clearly telling the guy stop coming at me with that knife or I'm going to rough ridin' shoot you.  I would think like one shot in the leg would probably do the trick.  Never shot anyone though so cannot confirm. 

I mean why not just keep shooting at his legs until he drops if it gets that far?  Seems less likely to be lethal and just as effective at stopping. 

I know with those tasers if both probes don't stick then they don't do crap.  I wouldn't risk a stabbing on one of those.  Same with rubber bullets.  If they don't do the trick, you're not going to get the chance to swap in the real ones.  Wouldn't risk it personally.  The knife wielder needs to take some ownership of the situation too.  He doesn't have to keep chasing after me when I have my gun out.

Seems like I've got this situ all sorted. 

[kim carnes]

If anything this situation is worse than Michael brown.  These officers knew the threat was coming and had time to make a more informed decision.  They could have easily shot him in the legs.  In browns case, the cop was being attacked and was in the heat of the moment.

[michigancat]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

yeah no one said it was the same thing. I mean, the guy is just as dead as Brown and the guys that killed him were also cops, but everyone recognizes differences between the cases.

That being said, I think every time a cop kills a citizen (knife-wielding or otherwise) it deserves serious scrutiny.

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

I'm fine with rubber bullets or tasers, too, I was just curious about baton use, that's all.

If a crazy person with a knife wouldn't stop coming after me and I had a gun and I had a baton, I don't think I'd resort to the baton first.  I mean assuming I'm clearly telling the guy stop coming at me with that knife or I'm going to rough ridin' shoot you.  I would think like one shot in the leg would probably do the trick.  Never shot anyone though so cannot confirm. 

I mean why not just keep shooting at his legs until he drops if it gets that far?  Seems less likely to be lethal and just as effective at stopping. 

I know with those tasers if both probes don't stick then they don't do crap.  I wouldn't risk a stabbing on one of those.  Same with rubber bullets.  If they don't do the trick, you're not going to get the chance to swap in the real ones.  Wouldn't risk it personally.  The knife wielder needs to take some ownership of the situation too.  He doesn't have to keep chasing after me when I have my gun out.

Seems like I've got this situ all sorted.

Well I would think someone trained in baton use could pretty well beat the crap out of someone with a knife and not kill them.

Of course, it's possible I'm overestimating the ability of these cops.

[Rage Against the McKee]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

yeah no one said it was the same thing. I mean, the guy is just as dead as Brown and the guys that killed him were also cops, but everyone recognizes differences between the cases.

That being said, I think every time a cop kills a citizen (knife-wielding or otherwise) it deserves serious scrutiny.

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

I'm fine with rubber bullets or tasers, too, I was just curious about baton use, that's all.

If a crazy person with a knife wouldn't stop coming after me and I had a gun and I had a baton, I don't think I'd resort to the baton first.  I mean assuming I'm clearly telling the guy stop coming at me with that knife or I'm going to rough ridin' shoot you.  I would think like one shot in the leg would probably do the trick.  Never shot anyone though so cannot confirm. 

I mean why not just keep shooting at his legs until he drops if it gets that far?  Seems less likely to be lethal and just as effective at stopping. 

I know with those tasers if both probes don't stick then they don't do crap.  I wouldn't risk a stabbing on one of those.  Same with rubber bullets.  If they don't do the trick, you're not going to get the chance to swap in the real ones.  Wouldn't risk it personally.  The knife wielder needs to take some ownership of the situation too.  He doesn't have to keep chasing after me when I have my gun out.

Seems like I've got this situ all sorted.

Well I would think someone trained in baton use could pretty well beat the crap out of someone with a knife and not kill them.

Of course, it's possible I'm overestimating the ability of these cops.

It depends on who is wielding the knife, really.

[Mr Bread]

I assume police are trained to use the baton on an unarmed person acting threateningly.  (Mike Brown?)

This is what happened with the knife guy, and what "suicide by cop" looks like:

When two officers stopped him, the suspect shouted, "Shoot me! Kill me now!" The suspect refused verbal commands to stop and approached the officers holding a knife in an "overhand grip," getting within three or four feet of them, police said. Both officers fired at the suspect, killing him.

Come on, this ain't the same thing as Ferguson.  I feel bad for those two cops who were put in that position to have to shoot someone.

yeah no one said it was the same thing. I mean, the guy is just as dead as Brown and the guys that killed him were also cops, but everyone recognizes differences between the cases.

That being said, I think every time a cop kills a citizen (knife-wielding or otherwise) it deserves serious scrutiny.

Do cops ever use batons for anything other than beating the crap out of black people other than the ground? 2 cops with batons should be able to take a knife wielding dude. And he was coming at them overhand, I've seen 12 Angry Men, he's not gonna do much damage. (IIRC)

I'm not all that comfortable asking police officers to risk their lives against somebody wielding a knife by using their batons. Why not just arm the cops with rubber bullets and tazers? They can carry lethal ammunition in their back pocket, but should have to physically load it into the gun to use it.

I'm fine with rubber bullets or tasers, too, I was just curious about baton use, that's all.

If a crazy person with a knife wouldn't stop coming after me and I had a gun and I had a baton, I don't think I'd resort to the baton first.  I mean assuming I'm clearly telling the guy stop coming at me with that knife or I'm going to rough ridin' shoot you.  I would think like one shot in the leg would probably do the trick.  Never shot anyone though so cannot confirm. 

I mean why not just keep shooting at his legs until he drops if it gets that far?  Seems less likely to be lethal and just as effective at stopping. 

I know with those tasers if both probes don't stick then they don't do crap.  I wouldn't risk a stabbing on one of those.  Same with rubber bullets.  If they don't do the trick, you're not going to get the chance to swap in the real ones.  Wouldn't risk it personally.  The knife wielder needs to take some ownership of the situation too.  He doesn't have to keep chasing after me when I have my gun out.

Seems like I've got this situ all sorted.

Well I would think someone trained in baton use could pretty well beat the crap out of someone with a knife and not kill them.

Of course, it's possible I'm overestimating the ability of these cops.

You really, really are. 

[gatoveintisiet]

America is just too polarized left and right, it's probably time for a divorce and separation, each majority way of thinking deserves its opportunity to govern themselves their way.  Is anyone on the right or the left opposed to something like this.

[michigancat]

America is just too polarized left and right, it's probably time for a divorce and separation, each majority way of thinking deserves its opportunity to govern themselves their way.  Is anyone on the right or the left opposed to something like this.

I don't think people are as extreme as the internet makes it seem.

[gatoveintisiet]

America is just too polarized left and right, it's probably time for a divorce and separation, each majority way of thinking deserves its opportunity to govern themselves their way.  Is anyone on the right or the left opposed to something like this.

I don't think people are as extreme as the internet makes it seem.

I do, me and half the country rarely agree with you, and you and half the country rarely agree with me.  So what is the point of driving each other nuts
with each others "bullshit".

[gatoveintisiet]

my side will keep k-state 'cuz you're side will outlaw football anyway ok.