Angel is absolutely...

[wabash909]

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)

Yeah, he goes through periods where he shows flashes of brilliance and then completely blows ass.  He's a freshman, he's wildly inconsistent, but as has been hashed out a 1000 times, Frank obviously thinks he gives us the best chance to win because he's the best we've got.

The bigger picture is a true freshman shouldn't be the best we've got.

[SkinnyBenny]

But ya Souhtwell was also hilariously awful last night.  Oh man.  There was one time in the first half when he (stole? ended up with a loose ball?) and fast-breaked it downcourt. kats65 saw this and as he was driving downcourt she goes, "WHAT'S YOUR PLAN, BUDDY???" and then he did some weird jump stop thing that near the elbow and just sorta did this weird-ass backwards pass/fumble thingy.  Timing was hilarious.

Until it happened again a second time right after that.  Same scenario, same kats65 quote, same hilarious/infuriating result (i.e. no points). 

Man. We suck.   

[Rage Against the McKee]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

[MakeItRain]

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

(But it's also kinda about Angel.)

Yeah, he goes through periods where he shows flashes of brilliance and then completely blows ass.  He's a freshman, he's wildly inconsistent, but as has been hashed out a 1000 times, Frank obviously thinks he gives us the best chance to win because he's the best we've got.

The bigger picture is a true freshman shouldn't be the best we've got.

In each of the last two seasons Frank has lost the two best guards he has ever had.  Not having another guard this year is bad but I can live with it.  The issue is the two CC transfers he brought in.  Not sure what the point of Watson was and Jones was going to be Russell 2.0 at best.  I've spent three years talking about the issues at guard but I can tolerate a bridge year if ar-t continues to get better.  We still need a guard, I'd love to land a mysguard CC transfer, and a real ball handling guard, not another damn tweener.

[Cire]

SS was awful.  like Dom against Wisconsin.

[Underdog Wildcat]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

[Rage Against the McKee]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

[nicname]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

Probably because our program isn't at the level where it can just go out and "get the guy it needs" every year.  We did go out and get Pullen, then Clemente, then Tay, then Will, then Angel if we are talking about 1ish type guards.  KSU is going to have rebuilding years.  We might as well get used to it. 

[CNS]

I think more was expected in Will's Frosh to Soph bounce than what we have received.  

[Underdog Wildcat]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.

[Rage Against the McKee]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.

Yeah, it was poor scouting on Russell.

[michigancat]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.

Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).

[kitten_mittons]

Mods, ban everyone in this thread that seems mad that Spradling (so.) and Rodriguez (fr.) aren't as good as Jake and Denis were as seniors.

[kougar24]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

[Cartierfor3]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.

[Rage Against the McKee]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Do you just not watch the games or something?

[kougar24]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.

Spradling? Southwell? Jamar (yes, great game last night, expect 5 shitty games coming up)? JO? Even Frank apparently doesn't think 'Tay has improved his stock at all.

[Underdog Wildcat]

When we are starting a freshman at point guard and a senior and junior at the posts, it makes sense to address the post first. Angel will be much better next season and Spradling will only be a junior. Complain when Frank doesn't recruit a guard in 2013.

I'm confused.  What does recruiting a PG in 2013 that have to do with not recruiting a high impact point guard in the last two classes?

Notice that the the top three teams in the Big XII all have upperclassmen at the point.  It's not a coincidence.

This isn't about Angel.  This is about recruiting failures and roster management having forced us into relying solely on a true freshman when we shouldn't be.

Frank has recruited Angel, Spradling, and Irving in the last three classes. Angel is going to be very good. Spradling and Irving are both solid role players.

Sprads and Tay are solid role players, we all know that, that's not being debated. A lot of us see potential in Angel and hope he can consistently get better throughout his career, but it's pretty clear he's not a primetime, lead guard yet.

The issue is, why don't we have that difference making lead guard on our roster this year? Hindsight is always 20/20 but a lot of us are lamenting the fact that our staff did not ID the need to have a dynamic, difference making guard either already in the system or ready to make an immediate impact for the 11/12 team.

Obviously, those types of players are highly coveted throughout the country and aren't just on any random street corner, but it's our staff's job to ID those kids early and convince hopefully 1 at least to come play ball for the KSU Cats.

Not saying there isn't hope for the future, because I believe there is, but it would have been ideal to establish more continuity for the program this year through better recruiting and roster management that took place in the past.

The staff probably thought they had that with Nick Russell. He ended up being a bust. That is why we are starting a freshman this year. I'm happy with what our guard situation will be next year, though.

Which goes directly to poor scouting on the staff's part.

You could also look at Devon Peterson. or Jeremy Jones, Or Omari Lawrence. I really hope they didn't foresse Sprads as a lead guard type, there were some murmurings about that.

Lack of foresight or poor scouting? It's really got to be 1 or of the other.

Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).

I'm thinking when it came right down to it last Spring, and our staff HAD to have known PG was a concern, we went out and got Jeremy Jones, a potentially decent role player as an instant offense type but not a full time high major PG by any means.

I guess I can see the point of saying we just had a lot of bad luck leading up to that situation, but once in it, not much effort was made to improve it.

[kso_FAN]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year.  

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Clemente got better. Pullen got better. Tay has gotten better. McGruder is better. JO is better. Jamar... is Jamar. Sprads has gotten better in some ways, but his shooting has regressed this year, no doubt.

I have no doubt that Angel, Gip, and Diaz can and will all get better too. And I think Sprads will have a solid JR bounce back season.

I certainly don't think there are many guys that have gotten worse or regressed.

[catzacker]

Sometimes you can have great scouting and foresight and just fail to get the players you want. They wanted Alec Burks over Nick Russell, so I'd say there was great scouting but a failure to close the deal. They were pretty involved with Kenny Boynton very early, but failed to close the deal. I already mentioned Rosario and Fontan who were fairly attainable and would have been huge.

The staff has shown to be pretty good at scouting HS players and transfers - it's landing the players that's the problem. (I will agree their late Juco signees have been uniformly awful, but late spring recruiting will probably not be a strong suit for KSU for a long time).

I agree that this staff's hs evals are good (probably even say really good), however the closing part is kind of a big deal.  the players we end(ed) up with because we couldn't close the deal are why we are in the position we're in.  coupled with awful juco recruiting.  

[Rage Against the McKee]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Yes.  Usually.

Spradling? Southwell? Jamar (yes, great game last night, expect 5 shitty games coming up)? JO? Even Frank apparently doesn't think 'Tay has improved his stock at all.

All of those players are much better than they were when they got here, not to mention you are trying to use current sophomores to say that our players don't improve.

[kougar24]

That's why I blamed frank.  We won't be any better next year either since we didn't land a guard this year. 

Fair enough, but you don't think any of our guards will get better? Blame Frank for Franking, but guys he keeps around tend to get better.

Do they?

Clemente got better. Pullen got better. Tay has gotten better. McGruder is better. JO is better. Jamar... is Jamar. Sprads has gotten better in some ways, but his shooting has regressed this year, no doubt.

I have no doubt that Angel, Gip, and Diaz can and will all get better too. And I think Sprads will have a solid JR bounce back season.

I certainly don't think there are many guys that have gotten worse or regressed.

Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

[kso_FAN]

Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.

[OregonSmock]

Spradling has regressed, beyond just shooting. If 'Tay has gotten better, we certainly aren't cashing in on that, are we? JO? GMAFB. Maybe "Jamar is Jamar" because Frank failed to improve him.

I think McGruder is the same, just has more of a role without Pullz.

Please, tell me how Sprads has regressed in other ways.

Tay is going through a Frankhouse phase. He was really pretty solid in Big 12 play until the last 4 games and somehow Southwell moved into his minutes. I think after this last game we'll go back to seeing more of Tay, but he's been a solid 20 minute player most of this season.

And I think its fair to say Jamar is Jamar. I think there is only so much that can be done with certain players and Frand loves what he brings.

Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

[kso_FAN]

Danny Manning would have had Jamar Samuels in the NBA by now.  Your coaches are terrible at developing big men. 

Well, he is the big man whisperer.