The riot to reform police thread

[DQ12]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

Maybe so, but I think the threat of police showing up to the home invasion probably puts the invaders on a bit of a clock.

[catastrophe]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

[Spracne]

I guess we'll find out who the real libertarians are.

spracs isn't taking this well

I'm just brainstorming, here. Feel free to dole out some actual ideas instead of just platitudes.

[Trim]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

Coming full circle to why bad cops get away with criminal crap, prosecution won’t be a threat without cops having worked the case.

[star seed 7]

Make Police Great Again

Completely redo the police but stay within the limits of the contracts signed with the unions

Barney Fife the PD

The union contracts are a huge part of the problem

[CHONGS]

I guess we'll find out who the real libertarians are.

What's a true libertarian, for reference?

Read John Stuart Mill and then Murray Rothbard.

Chase that with Austrian School and Chicago School of economics.

[michigancat]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

Coming full circle to why bad cops get away with criminal crap, prosecution won’t be a threat without cops having worked the case.

yes, someone from the new criminal investigation unit could work the case. People without guns who are trained in solving crimes.

[CHONGS]

I guess we'll find out who the real libertarians are.

spracs isn't taking this well

I'm just brainstorming, here. Feel free to dole out some actual ideas instead of just platitudes.

That's like asking me which antibiotics you should take to cure your cancer.

[Spracne]

I guess we'll find out who the real libertarians are.

spracs isn't taking this well

I'm just brainstorming, here. Feel free to dole out some actual ideas instead of just platitudes.

That's like asking me which antibiotics you should take to cure your cancer.

Quickest way to kill the cancer is to kill the host, so let's abolish the police and hire the Pinkerton's. What do you say?

[CHONGS]

I said cure not kill.

[gatoveintisiete]

Is Michigancat this boards dumbest poster?  I think so.

[catastrophe]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

Well obviously my reason is going to be the fear of being apprehended by police after being seen by another human. Clock starts running at that point when there’s a force available to respond within a few minutes.

[Institutional Control]

https://twitter.com/dougsthename_sg/status/1269380228675072001?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[michigancat]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

Well obviously my reason is going to be the fear of being apprehended by police after being seen by another human. Clock starts running at that point when there’s a force available to respond within a few minutes.

there would still be the threat of prosecution, just not the threat of goons with guns showing up in a few minutes.

FWIW, around 13% of burglaries are currently solved (the perp getting murdered by the cop is included in this figure).



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/clearances

[Spracne]

https://twitter.com/dougsthename_sg/status/1269380228675072001?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems dumb, is them seeing a camera phone pointing at them considering informed?

I ignore tweets like this that don't contain a link to the allegedly outrageous law.

[DQ12]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

Well obviously my reason is going to be the fear of being apprehended by police after being seen by another human. Clock starts running at that point when there’s a force available to respond within a few minutes.

there would still be the threat of prosecution, just not the threat of goons with guns showing up in a few minutes.

FWIW, around 13% of burglaries are currently solved (the perp getting murdered by the cop is included in this figure).



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/clearances

That's a pretty significant threat, imo.

[michigancat]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

Well obviously my reason is going to be the fear of being apprehended by police after being seen by another human. Clock starts running at that point when there’s a force available to respond within a few minutes.

there would still be the threat of prosecution, just not the threat of goons with guns showing up in a few minutes.

FWIW, around 13% of burglaries are currently solved (the perp getting murdered by the cop is included in this figure).



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/clearances

That's a pretty significant threat, imo.

Yet it's clearly not very effective

[catastrophe]

https://twitter.com/dougsthename_sg/status/1269380228675072001?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems dumb, is them seeing a camera phone pointing at them considering informed?

I ignore tweets like this that don't contain a link to the allegedly outrageous law.

It included a link in the comments. And the ordinance specifically says you cannot be in violation if you are only recording police activity.

https://tucsonaz.onbaseonline.com/1801AgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/ORDINANCE%2011746.pdf?meetingId=1460&documentType=Agenda&itemId=57902&publishId=49115&isSection=false

[Spracne]

https://twitter.com/dougsthename_sg/status/1269380228675072001?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Seems dumb, is them seeing a camera phone pointing at them considering informed?

I ignore tweets like this that don't contain a link to the allegedly outrageous law.

It included a link in the comments. And the ordinance specifically says you cannot be in violation if you are only recording police activity.

https://tucsonaz.onbaseonline.com/1801AgendaOnline/Documents/ViewDocument/ORDINANCE%2011746.pdf?meetingId=1460&documentType=Agenda&itemId=57902&publishId=49115&isSection=false

Sounds like my strategy is sound.

[sys]

you can't record the police unless they're doing police activity?  wtf does that mean?

[DQ12]

so based off browsing Ben Shapiro's twitter this morning, it seems like the go-to conservative response to defunding the police is "what'll you do if someone is breaking into your home?" Like how often do cops prevent home invasions in progress?

I wonder what home invasions would look like in the absence of police or the threat of police. 

I imagine pretty similar assuming there is still a threat of prosecution.

I think you’d see more burglaries that turn into robberies, and also more that turn fatal since more homeowners will be scared and armed. Petty burglary would prob go away for that reason though.

I don't think so. Why wouldn't people just rob instead of burgle now?

Well obviously my reason is going to be the fear of being apprehended by police after being seen by another human. Clock starts running at that point when there’s a force available to respond within a few minutes.

there would still be the threat of prosecution, just not the threat of goons with guns showing up in a few minutes.

FWIW, around 13% of burglaries are currently solved (the perp getting murdered by the cop is included in this figure).



https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2017/crime-in-the-u.s.-2017/topic-pages/clearances

That's a pretty significant threat, imo.

Yet it's clearly not very effective

We don't know how effective it is because that threat has loomed since the existence of 911.  Maybe it's a pretty big deterrent and without it, there'd be a lot more burglaries.

[michigancat]

We don't know how effective it is because that threat has loomed since the existence of 911.  Maybe it's a pretty big deterrent and without it, there'd be a lot more burglaries.

true, but we DO know it's not effective for burglaries in progress, which is the scenario conservatives point to as why you shouldn't defund the police. I would guess most people considering burglary either realize the clearance rate is pretty low or are desperate enough to not worry about the cops. Impossible to say for sure but I can't imagine there's a ton of people with a pros and cons board when they decide whether or not to become a burglar.

not sure why you pointed to 9/11? the thread of armed goons has been present for way longer than that. (OK, I realized you meant calling 911 after re-reading, ha)

[DQ12]

We don't know how effective it is because that threat has loomed since the existence of 911.  Maybe it's a pretty big deterrent and without it, there'd be a lot more burglaries.

true, but we DO know it's not effective for burglaries in progress, which is the scenario conservatives point to as why you shouldn't defund the police. I would guess most people considering burglary either realize the clearance rate is pretty low or are desperate enough to not worry about the cops. Impossible to say for sure but I can't imagine there's a ton of people with a pros and cons board when they decide whether or not to become a burglar.

not sure why you pointed to 9/11? the thread of armed goons has been present for way longer than that. (OK, I realized you meant calling 911 after re-reading, ha)

haha

It depends on how you define "effective."  It's true that the vast majority of burglaries don't have the burglars get arrested/neutralized at the scene, but if there were zero threat of getting stopped at the scene (as opposed to a very small threat), I think that could potentially have some significant consequences.

Bottom line, if I'm in a scenario where I'm getting burgled, I'd hope for cops to come ASAP.

[Trim]

Criminals aren't necessarily afraid of getting caught in the act because the cops will kill/kick their ass, but rather because that makes it easier for cops and then the prosecutors to have an easy case and then the criminal suffers the consequence.  It's not much more of a fear than of the cops subsequently dealing with the crime and identifying and locating the criminal and a criminal case being filed and won.

It'll be fine if instead of ____ City PD doing that job, there's some other entity that can do the whole crime-fighting and investigating job, including going to the crime scenes even when still active and dangerous and having enough stuff on them for it to be relatively safe.

And then you could have a bunch of other things that aren't ___ City PD to do all the other things police do.  I'm sure some things would improve with that split, while there might be other things that would become less effective without the centralization.

But this is all really just political posturing.

If we're gonna do something big, break up the united states.

[catastrophe]

you can't record the police unless they're doing police activity?  wtf does that mean?

At the risk of responding to a sarcastic comment, the ordinance only regulates interfering with police activity and entering crime scenes. It only mentions recording police activity to make clear that is not being prohibited (unless you are also interfering with an investigation).