Author Topic: New To Investing Thread  (Read 337096 times)

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Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2775 on: December 10, 2020, 11:10:29 AM »
If I had hundreds of millions of dollars, I would probably buy some farmland in California and plant like an orchard (or buy one) but short of that being a landlord farmer is just not going to give you the same ROI as simply investing in much easier and less time intensive things like stocks.

Rental properties are great if you have the time and/or energy, but I have a friend that is doing it and he has been doing it for multiple years and has negative equity without subtracting the time because of having the property sit vacant, upgrades/repairs etc.  The same thing can happen in the market of course, but it doesn't take any time to set up a Total Stock Market or VOO (vanguard S&P 500 index ETF) and just set a monthly contribution and forget it.  That will compound just like your rental, without any of the other headaches.

There are definitely tax benefits to the rental, but you have to value your own time and I think a lot of people if they were honest would find that they are not making as much money given the amount of time spent as they think.
All property I buy is intended to have infinite ROI. Some does already, the rest will within a year or two. I have no other job, 1-2 hours per week for me, wife works part time, we live a nice middle class life as a family of 3 doing mostly what we want when we want. Hopefully in a few years I'll grow this to where she doesn't work at all and we travel around the world regularly. That's the goal anyway.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline catastrophe

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2776 on: December 10, 2020, 11:33:59 AM »
Who fixes up the fixer upper? Who does the tax paperwork? Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Who collects the monthly rent? Who finds the positive cash flowing properties?

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2777 on: December 10, 2020, 11:47:16 AM »
Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)
(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.

(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline catastrophe

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New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2778 on: December 10, 2020, 04:04:44 PM »
In all sincerity, this isn’t particularly helpful for someone with no prior experience. Your advice is to find a property that has a good ROI, buy it, rent it, collect the rent, and make all appropriate tax deductions to maximize the value. You have not provided any advice on how you actually do these things other than having a partner and hiring people that know how to do them (and using “a website” for rent collection).

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2779 on: December 10, 2020, 04:19:01 PM »
If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.


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Offline Kat Kid

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2780 on: December 10, 2020, 04:24:41 PM »
If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.


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buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.

Offline Fedor

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2781 on: December 10, 2020, 04:33:50 PM »
Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)
(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.

(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
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Offline catastrophe

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2782 on: December 10, 2020, 04:35:28 PM »
If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.


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buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.
That’s what I do! Except I mix in some VTI cause I like to pretend I’m diversifying.

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2783 on: December 10, 2020, 04:45:11 PM »
If you guys need in depth detailed instructions on buying SPY I can provide. TIA.


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buy VOO it is a lower cost and exactly the same.
Yeah, I’m using SPY as a placeholder here


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Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2784 on: December 10, 2020, 04:56:24 PM »
I am maxed out on 401k contributions and Roth IRA's. What else is there i could look at that is relatively stable and I don't have to look at thirty times a day?

take an extra vacation each year and splurge

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2785 on: December 10, 2020, 05:28:56 PM »
In all sincerity, this isn’t particularly helpful for someone with no prior experience. Your advice is to find a property that has a good ROI, buy it, rent it, collect the rent, and make all appropriate tax deductions to maximize the value. You have not provided any advice on how you actually do these things other than having a partner and hiring people that know how to do them (and using “a website” for rent collection).
I understand, but I wrote a book of a post just going quickly over the high points. I'll go a little deeper here. If you want me to expand further, I can. I can't stress enough I'm detailing one way, but there are so many ways to skin this cat. Don't forget to listen to podcasts, you'll learn a lot by hearing specific examples of what people do.

Decide if you want multi-family or single family. I do multifamily, but let's stay single family. How do you find a good rental. First, decide where you want to buy. Let's assume you live in an affordable midwest city already and want to invest there. You can do any or all of these or do more than this, your choice. The more you do, the higher chance you'll find what you want. You're basically just marketing.
  • Tell everyone you know or meet that you want to buy a house/fixer/rental house
  • Join all the real estate investing facebook groups you can find and let people know what you want and where you want it
  • Go to a physical meet-up for real estate investors. Due to covid, many aren't meeting in person, but they will eventually
  • Talk to realtor about your buying criteria and let them find one. If they bring you exactly what you ask and you don't buy it, they probably disappear FWIW
  • Go to zillow/facebook marketplace/etc and scour the houses. You might do something like look for a house with 2 bedrooms with 1000+ sqft. That will likely have a place you can add a 3rd bedroom. Typically this will add value to that house relatively easy.

You got a lead on a house, now what? Well is it a good deal? HOW THE eff WOULD I KNOW, KITNfury?! Fair enough, let's dig into analyzing. Rehab costs will absolutely vary way too much for me to just tell you what it will cost. Depends on city, material costs, how good your finishes are, etc. So I will stick to something that is essentially rent ready. You'll need to know how much it will rent for. I usually check a couple places to get a good idea. Rentometer.com is a website that tries to give you market rent based on how many bedrooms. It's not perfect, but it's a data point. Then I check out zillow and look for rentals in that area for rent and look at the pics. Base your rent assumption around what you find. If yours is a little shittier than the comps, it will probably rent for a little less and visa versa is the opposite is true. Size of house, garage spaces, etc will matter too. A guideline, but definitely not a rule, is to divide the monthly rent by the purchase price. A lot of people want 1% or more. It's just a sniff test, nothing more.

Ok, so now you know a basic idea of how much income you can generate. You need to know expenses. With single family, you shouldn't have any utility costs, lawn mowing, etc so that makes it simpler. But you will have mortgage, taxes, and insurance plus basic maintenance and random capital expenditures. I created an easy to use spreadsheet for this. Let me know if you want it. It's fairly conservative, but IMO it's smart to be conservative. Decide what return on your money you want and see if this house will meet your criteria. I personally won't buy anything that doesn't at least have double digit ROI on my down payment (cash on cash return) and I'd like to get closer to 15% or more. This neglects equity gain, it's simple cash flow. The spreadsheet will show both, equity gain plus cashflow will show the IRR (internal rate of return). Basically entire amount your networth is growing.

Ok, so assuming it's a good deal. Buy it. If going through realtors, it's easy enough. If it's a house FSBO, you'll need to get a contract together. IIRC, I think some title companies provide them. Once you're under contract, you'll do all your due diligence and buy. Title company will handle most of it.

So you close and it's time to rent or rehab. If you need to rehab and have been on FB groups, looks for referrals for contractors. Get bids, get the work done.

At this point, decide if you want to self manage or have a property manager. PMs aren't cheap, but they can also be worth their weight in gold. I don't personally think managing one house would be too hard for many people, but that's a personal decision. I'll assume you're going to self manage. Time to rent. I personally have good luck just listing on Zillow. Depending on your area, you might have better luck on facebook or whatever. Talk to other investors to try to figure out which avenue to go, or do them all and you decide.

Yay, you got applications. Who to pick? I personally require their pre-tax income to be a minimum of 3x the rent. I don't allow someone with a previous evictions or felonies. Be aware of fair housing laws and state tenant landlord laws. They are pretty much common sense, but there are some things that are trickier. For instance, "familial status" is protected. So I never ask if they have kids or whatever because if I deny, they could claim it was due to that. That would be an innocent mistake that could bite you. I also call previous landlords, sometimes you don't get a hold of them. I basically ask one question: Would you rent to them again? I do background screening. I use mysmartmove.com. The applicant fills out and pays them and I get the results. It gives criminal, eviction, sex offender, and credit scores to me. Ask for paystubs for proof of income. Basically verify everything told you about themselves.

Place the tenant you chose. Prior to moving them in, walk the property and do a move-in checklist. Notate everything that is beyond "normal wear and tear" and have both you and them sign it. If they move out and there's a giant stain in the carpet, they can't claim it was already there unless it's on that checklist. Don't be a scumbag, only charge them for what they did. I give a receipt for first month's rent and deposit because I only take certified income for that (cash or money order). We'd be off to a bad start if the check bounced and they have a legal signed lease. After that, I don't take anything except checks or online payment. If they mail a check and it's lost, cancel and send another. If they send money order or cash or whatever, probably gone forever and they won't have the money to pay twice.

Online payment, I use Cozy.co (not .com). If the tenant links their checking account, it's free for everyone to use.

Finding and placing a tenant is my least favorite thing to say the least. But I only self manage 11 doors and have good tenants (usually), so once I get one they aren't too much a problem.

So if you think that house value has raised in value due to your work, rent increase, or whatever then go to a bank and do a cash out refinance. Just make sure it still cashflows with the new higher mortgage before going this route. Oh, and you'll likely need to wait 6 months from purchase before doing this to allow it to "season".

Repeat this process. It will seem slow at first, but those little streams of income will become larger faster as you keep doing this. I imagine this seems like a crap ton of work, and it can be, but like all things it gets easier the more you do it. If you use a property manager, those streams will be smaller for longer, but then you're just finding deals and doing a quick rehab on them and waiting to refinance. I can almost guarantee the first time you BRRRR anything (single family or multifamily) you'll be hooked when you realize you have a free house/building that gives you infinite ROI (some positive cash each month with zero of your own money in it). Fun times ahead.

Obviously, buying a property in California will be hard to cashflow, but easier in Indianapolis. Lots of variables to consider depending on area.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2786 on: December 10, 2020, 05:32:22 PM »
Who fixes up the fixer upper? Contractors Who does the tax paperwork? Accountant Who fixes stuff when it breaks? Contractors Who collects the monthly rent? See below (A) Who finds the positive cash flowing properties? Not necessarily easy, but there are lots of different ways. See below. (B)
(A) I self manage some of my property, most though is under a property manager. She handles most of everything for those, but sometimes asks my partner and I what we want do for situation X. I use a free online rent collection website for collecting rent, gets deposited right into my account. I have a couple old school tenants that mail me rent, so I have to go to the PO box and mobile deposit those checks.

(B) This is still the trickiest part for me. I've found a deal on craigslist (mostly obsolete at this point in my area). I've found a deal though a realtor. I've found deals through my partner. I've found a deal, with my partner, from a guy we used to make some repairs. So there are so many avenues here, that it would be impossible to list all ways this can be found. If you want to BRRRR a property and want to buy in a city, go find a facebook page for real estate investors in that area. I promise there are people that wholesale there (another topic entirely, but basically they find fixers and sell the contract to people that want to rent or flip houses).
Are you FIRE?
I only recently heard that acronym, so not sure if there is any "program" or whatever for it, but that's basically where I am now. Not rich or anything, but I'm free of any boss or shackled to a desk. I replaced my W2 income and quit. So I'm time free. Not sure what I'll do going forward to help speed up my growth. Flipped a couple houses earlier this year, probably do some more of that to get capital to buy more rental property.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline steve dave

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2787 on: December 10, 2020, 05:49:07 PM »
I have friends with no kids that are FIRE. And they will ask me if I am and I lmao in their faces. my kids are of undetermined intelligence and drive. there is no safe amount. I'm just going to assume they are all going to Harvard on non-scholarship for 10 years.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2788 on: December 10, 2020, 05:55:49 PM »
I have friends with no kids that are FIRE. And they will ask me if I am and I lmao in their faces. my kids are of undetermined intelligence and drive. there is no safe amount. I'm just going to assume they are all going to Harvard on non-scholarship for 10 years.
I'm looking for a duplex right now. I'll put it on a 15 year note so it will be mostly paid off when the rugrat is 18. She can sell it or put a mortgage on it to pay for college. If that isn't enough, then better have scholarships or else be getting loans.

If she joins her old man in business, college won't be necessary. She could then live in one side and rent the other side.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline 8manpick

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2789 on: December 10, 2020, 05:57:44 PM »
Didn't we go through this whole thing like 70 pages ago in this thread?
:adios:

Offline catastrophe

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2790 on: December 10, 2020, 06:00:22 PM »
I plan to retire the day our oldest leaves for college. He’s got a 529 we may never tell him about so we can just draw from that whenever he begs for a handout.

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2791 on: December 10, 2020, 06:07:49 PM »
yeah, 529s a great answer but not applicable to gooch as far as I know. some states will let you deduct your contributions from your state taxes. NE's rules.

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2792 on: December 10, 2020, 07:03:56 PM »
Good job KITNfury, I think you are under selling your talent. Any dumbass with some extra cash can buy an index fund and win but not many people can do what you do IMO.  Have you had any cases of non payment due to Covid job loss and inability to pay.  I would think If this year didn’t break you as a landlord basically nothing can.
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Offline michigancat

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2793 on: December 10, 2020, 07:05:41 PM »
In all sincerity, this isn’t particularly helpful for someone with no prior experience. Your advice is to find a property that has a good ROI, buy it, rent it, collect the rent, and make all appropriate tax deductions to maximize the value. You have not provided any advice on how you actually do these things other than having a partner and hiring people that know how to do them (and using “a website” for rent collection).
I understand, but I wrote a book of a post just going quickly over the high points. I'll go a little deeper here. If you want me to expand further, I can. I can't stress enough I'm detailing one way, but there are so many ways to skin this cat. Don't forget to listen to podcasts, you'll learn a lot by hearing specific examples of what people do.

Decide if you want multi-family or single family. I do multifamily, but let's stay single family. How do you find a good rental. First, decide where you want to buy. Let's assume you live in an affordable midwest city already and want to invest there. You can do any or all of these or do more than this, your choice. The more you do, the higher chance you'll find what you want. You're basically just marketing.
  • Tell everyone you know or meet that you want to buy a house/fixer/rental house
  • Join all the real estate investing facebook groups you can find and let people know what you want and where you want it
  • Go to a physical meet-up for real estate investors. Due to covid, many aren't meeting in person, but they will eventually
  • Talk to realtor about your buying criteria and let them find one. If they bring you exactly what you ask and you don't buy it, they probably disappear FWIW
  • Go to zillow/facebook marketplace/etc and scour the houses. You might do something like look for a house with 2 bedrooms with 1000+ sqft. That will likely have a place you can add a 3rd bedroom. Typically this will add value to that house relatively easy.

You got a lead on a house, now what? Well is it a good deal? HOW THE eff WOULD I KNOW, KITNfury?! Fair enough, let's dig into analyzing. Rehab costs will absolutely vary way too much for me to just tell you what it will cost. Depends on city, material costs, how good your finishes are, etc. So I will stick to something that is essentially rent ready. You'll need to know how much it will rent for. I usually check a couple places to get a good idea. Rentometer.com is a website that tries to give you market rent based on how many bedrooms. It's not perfect, but it's a data point. Then I check out zillow and look for rentals in that area for rent and look at the pics. Base your rent assumption around what you find. If yours is a little shittier than the comps, it will probably rent for a little less and visa versa is the opposite is true. Size of house, garage spaces, etc will matter too. A guideline, but definitely not a rule, is to divide the monthly rent by the purchase price. A lot of people want 1% or more. It's just a sniff test, nothing more.

Ok, so now you know a basic idea of how much income you can generate. You need to know expenses. With single family, you shouldn't have any utility costs, lawn mowing, etc so that makes it simpler. But you will have mortgage, taxes, and insurance plus basic maintenance and random capital expenditures. I created an easy to use spreadsheet for this. Let me know if you want it. It's fairly conservative, but IMO it's smart to be conservative. Decide what return on your money you want and see if this house will meet your criteria. I personally won't buy anything that doesn't at least have double digit ROI on my down payment (cash on cash return) and I'd like to get closer to 15% or more. This neglects equity gain, it's simple cash flow. The spreadsheet will show both, equity gain plus cashflow will show the IRR (internal rate of return). Basically entire amount your networth is growing.

Ok, so assuming it's a good deal. Buy it. If going through realtors, it's easy enough. If it's a house FSBO, you'll need to get a contract together. IIRC, I think some title companies provide them. Once you're under contract, you'll do all your due diligence and buy. Title company will handle most of it.

So you close and it's time to rent or rehab. If you need to rehab and have been on FB groups, looks for referrals for contractors. Get bids, get the work done.

At this point, decide if you want to self manage or have a property manager. PMs aren't cheap, but they can also be worth their weight in gold. I don't personally think managing one house would be too hard for many people, but that's a personal decision. I'll assume you're going to self manage. Time to rent. I personally have good luck just listing on Zillow. Depending on your area, you might have better luck on facebook or whatever. Talk to other investors to try to figure out which avenue to go, or do them all and you decide.

Yay, you got applications. Who to pick? I personally require their pre-tax income to be a minimum of 3x the rent. I don't allow someone with a previous evictions or felonies. Be aware of fair housing laws and state tenant landlord laws. They are pretty much common sense, but there are some things that are trickier. For instance, "familial status" is protected. So I never ask if they have kids or whatever because if I deny, they could claim it was due to that. That would be an innocent mistake that could bite you. I also call previous landlords, sometimes you don't get a hold of them. I basically ask one question: Would you rent to them again? I do background screening. I use mysmartmove.com. The applicant fills out and pays them and I get the results. It gives criminal, eviction, sex offender, and credit scores to me. Ask for paystubs for proof of income. Basically verify everything told you about themselves.

Place the tenant you chose. Prior to moving them in, walk the property and do a move-in checklist. Notate everything that is beyond "normal wear and tear" and have both you and them sign it. If they move out and there's a giant stain in the carpet, they can't claim it was already there unless it's on that checklist. Don't be a scumbag, only charge them for what they did. I give a receipt for first month's rent and deposit because I only take certified income for that (cash or money order). We'd be off to a bad start if the check bounced and they have a legal signed lease. After that, I don't take anything except checks or online payment. If they mail a check and it's lost, cancel and send another. If they send money order or cash or whatever, probably gone forever and they won't have the money to pay twice.

Online payment, I use Cozy.co (not .com). If the tenant links their checking account, it's free for everyone to use.

Finding and placing a tenant is my least favorite thing to say the least. But I only self manage 11 doors and have good tenants (usually), so once I get one they aren't too much a problem.

So if you think that house value has raised in value due to your work, rent increase, or whatever then go to a bank and do a cash out refinance. Just make sure it still cashflows with the new higher mortgage before going this route. Oh, and you'll likely need to wait 6 months from purchase before doing this to allow it to "season".

Repeat this process. It will seem slow at first, but those little streams of income will become larger faster as you keep doing this. I imagine this seems like a crap ton of work, and it can be, but like all things it gets easier the more you do it. If you use a property manager, those streams will be smaller for longer, but then you're just finding deals and doing a quick rehab on them and waiting to refinance. I can almost guarantee the first time you BRRRR anything (single family or multifamily) you'll be hooked when you realize you have a free house/building that gives you infinite ROI (some positive cash each month with zero of your own money in it). Fun times ahead.

Obviously, buying a property in California will be hard to cashflow, but easier in Indianapolis. Lots of variables to consider depending on area.
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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2794 on: December 10, 2020, 07:10:23 PM »
KITN, do you have a high tolerance for BS? Seems like running a real estate empire by yourself would involve a high tolerance for BS.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2795 on: December 10, 2020, 07:17:36 PM »
Good job KITNfury, I think you are under selling your talent. Any dumbass with some extra cash can buy an index fund and win but not many people can do what you do IMO.  Have you had any cases of non payment due to Covid job loss and inability to pay.  I would think If this year didn’t break you as a landlord basically nothing can.
Well thanks, but I think it's probably simpler than it reads in my long ass posts. There's a bit of drinking from a fire hose there. Index funds are easier though, no doubt. But they would have never got me out of a job after 4 years of investing in them.

Keep in mind that I'm not as in tune for reasons of non payment for the property under management vs what I self manage. I know there was some that didn't pay, but not a significant amount. With the property I manage, I have one right now having a tough time. Hoping to get some assistance through a covid program Kansas has in place. Thankfully it's mostly it's been ok, though.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2796 on: December 10, 2020, 07:21:42 PM »
KITN, do you have a high tolerance for BS? Seems like running a real estate empire by yourself would involve a high tolerance for BS.
Haha I don't know. Didn't feel like I had high tolerance when I dealt with my old job's BS. But I also don't run everything by myself.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2797 on: December 10, 2020, 07:25:22 PM »
Or just take a baller vacation
Taking 3-6 months worth of baller vacations per year is my dream goal. Hopefully I'm fortunate enough to actually get there.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.

Online Justwin

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2798 on: December 10, 2020, 07:48:03 PM »

Math time!! To show plainly what I said above with nice round numbers. You buy a fixer for $50k. Being a fixer, you may or may not go to a traditional bank for it. Let's just assume you did, but IRL, just know there are other private lenders for this. Your down payment would be around 20% or $10k. You put $25k into it to get it all fixed up. Maybe you had that money or maybe it was lent. Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic. So all in, you and your lender have put $75k into it. But, now it's worth $100k. Banks will usually lend around 75% of the value of a property. What does this mean? You go to a new bank and refinance. They do the appraisal, and sure enough, it appraises for exactly $100k. So, they loan 75k on the property, which first goes to the previous lender to pay them out and what's left over goes to you which comes out to exactly your down payment. What are you left with? A free house that someone else will pay the mortgage for if you did it right. Take that money and do it again.

I have done that before with apartments too. So you're able to recycle your money over and over again. It just needs to positively cashflow so you don't lose the property to the bank. It's a longer process with apartments, but still do-able. The term you'll hear a lot is "value-add".

If I left anything out, please ask. I feel like most people stopped reading long before this sentence, so I'll stop here.

What is the rent on the rehabbed 100K property?

Offline KITNfury

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Re: New To Investing Thread
« Reply #2799 on: December 10, 2020, 08:13:04 PM »

Math time!! To show plainly what I said above with nice round numbers. You buy a fixer for $50k. Being a fixer, you may or may not go to a traditional bank for it. Let's just assume you did, but IRL, just know there are other private lenders for this. Your down payment would be around 20% or $10k. You put $25k into it to get it all fixed up. Maybe you had that money or maybe it was lent. Doesn't matter, let's stay on topic. So all in, you and your lender have put $75k into it. But, now it's worth $100k. Banks will usually lend around 75% of the value of a property. What does this mean? You go to a new bank and refinance. They do the appraisal, and sure enough, it appraises for exactly $100k. So, they loan 75k on the property, which first goes to the previous lender to pay them out and what's left over goes to you which comes out to exactly your down payment. What are you left with? A free house that someone else will pay the mortgage for if you did it right. Take that money and do it again.

I have done that before with apartments too. So you're able to recycle your money over and over again. It just needs to positively cashflow so you don't lose the property to the bank. It's a longer process with apartments, but still do-able. The term you'll hear a lot is "value-add".

If I left anything out, please ask. I feel like most people stopped reading long before this sentence, so I'll stop here.

What is the rent on the rehabbed 100K property?
You would want to know market rent on a rehabbed house in whatever area you're in so that you know it would support the mortgage/taxes/insurance. A fully rehabbed house shouldn't have too much maintenance for at least 3-5 years, so that helps, and after that time rent will probably be higher.

But let's say around $900-1000/mo.
I once blew clove smoke in a guy's face that cut in front of me in the line to KJ's.