Frank's sarcasm has gotten way out of control....

[MakeItRain]

As for Frank I'm not sure he's capable of cleaning this up until he has some very serious consequences for his behavior. I don't think he will get fired from USC for performance, they are absolutely getting better. I'm afraid this situation, caused by his demeanor, is untenable. If he doesn't change quickly he will be an assistant for the '15-'16 season. This continual focus on his demeanor, that he has created, is unfortunate because he's a very good basketball coach.

On paper SoCar basketball is absolutely not getting better.  In fact, you could easily argue that they've regressed in Frank's second year.  I mean this team is as bad as or worse than any team in the 5 years before Frank arrived.  And the SEC is weaker than it was in those 5 years. 

13-14:  11-19 (4-13) - SEC RPI #7
12-13:  14-18 (4-14) - SEC #7
11-12:  10-21 (2-14) - SEC #3
10-11:  14-16 (5-11) - SEC #6
09-10:  15-16 (6-10) - SEC #4
08-09:  21-10 (10-6) - SEC #2
07-08:  14-18 (5-11) - SEC #5

On the recruiting front, Frank has done a decent job (2 4*,6 3*) , but in the 2 years before Frank arrived, Darrin Horn did a better job - with 3 4* and 4 3*.

Horn was the coach for 4 years before he got canned.  He won a Division Title and NIT in year 1.  He was fired after 3 straight subsequent losing seasons, combined 39-43 (13-35). 

If they apply the Darrin Horn standard of success to Frank, another losing season in 14-15 will cost Frank his job.   

I simply said they are better and they are. I watched this team play under Horn when their best player was a sophomore football player. Of course he's going to get fired if they don't improve next year, I don't think anyone is debating that, but they have much better players here than they did in 2012.

[michigancat]

yes they all swear, yes they all get on their guys. 

but come on, frank takes things to a different level.  screaming at a kid to "answer the rough ridin' question bad person" isn't the same as telling a kid that he's a pussy for not fighting through a screen.

It isn't?

There's an old adage you may be familiar with...  "it's not what you say, it's how you say it." 

 

Yeah, I'd agree with that. There's tons of factors at play. It's just interesting to me where these lines get drawn.

[pissclams]

As for Frank I'm not sure he's capable of cleaning this up until he has some very serious consequences for his behavior. I don't think he will get fired from USC for performance, they are absolutely getting better. I'm afraid this situation, caused by his demeanor, is untenable. If he doesn't change quickly he will be an assistant for the '15-'16 season. This continual focus on his demeanor, that he has created, is unfortunate because he's a very good basketball coach.

On paper SoCar basketball is absolutely not getting better.  In fact, you could easily argue that they've regressed in Frank's second year.  I mean this team is as bad as or worse than any team in the 5 years before Frank arrived.  And the SEC is weaker than it was in those 5 years. 

13-14:  11-19 (4-13) - SEC RPI #7
12-13:  14-18 (4-14) - SEC #7
11-12:  10-21 (2-14) - SEC #3
10-11:  14-16 (5-11) - SEC #6
09-10:  15-16 (6-10) - SEC #4
08-09:  21-10 (10-6) - SEC #2
07-08:  14-18 (5-11) - SEC #5

On the recruiting front, Frank has done a decent job (2 4*,6 3*) , but in the 2 years before Frank arrived, Darrin Horn did a better job - with 3 4* and 4 3*.

Horn was the coach for 4 years before he got canned.  He won a Division Title and NIT in year 1.  He was fired after 3 straight subsequent losing seasons, combined 39-43 (13-35). 

If they apply the Darrin Horn standard of success to Frank, another losing season in 14-15 will cost Frank his job.   

I simply said they are better and they are. I watched this team play under Horn when their best player was a sophomore football player. Of course he's going to get fired if they don't improve next year, I don't think anyone is debating that, but they have much better players here than they did in 2012.

MIR you made a definitive statement, "they are absolutely getting better" as if the issue couldn't be anything but true.  belvis posted measurable indices that say otherwise.  i don't think they're definitely better but maybe they are.  it's up for debate i guess.

[Ghost of Stan Parrish]

I don't see much evidence of USC getting better.  Frank started off 10-3 in his first nonconference season.  Since then, his record is utterly abysmal: 15-34 (.306).  And he lost to South Carolina Upstate in this year's noncon, which I would guess is accepted by the USC alums as something like us losing to UMKC.

His biggest win (by far) happened only six days ago, against #17 UK, but at this point that looks like it might be a TCU over KU situation rather than a trend.

[Belvis Noland]

I simply said they are better and they are. I watched this team play under Horn when their best player was a sophomore football player. Of course he's going to get fired if they don't improve next year, I don't think anyone is debating that, but they have much better players here than they did in 2012.

Admittedly, I don't watch SoCar bball.  And obvs, haven't run out advanced stats on Frank teams v. Horn teams.  but on paper, Frank's losers are every bit as bad as Horn's losers.

And, much of this thread is about whether Frank will get/deserves to get fired for his behavior/losing.  Plenty of debate on this issue.  You yourself said he won't get fired for performance.  The question is whether Frank is a good enough coach to miraculously turn that crap show around in a single season and flip that record around to be in the conversation of an NIT bid. 

[Panjandrum]

I simply said they are better and they are. I watched this team play under Horn when their best player was a sophomore football player. Of course he's going to get fired if they don't improve next year, I don't think anyone is debating that, but they have much better players here than they did in 2012.

Admittedly, I don't watch SoCar bball.  And obvs, haven't run out advanced stats on Frank teams v. Horn teams.  but on paper, Frank's losers are every bit as bad as Horn's losers.

And, much of this thread is about whether Frank will get/deserves to get fired for his behavior/losing.  Plenty of debate on this issue.  You yourself said he won't get fired for performance.  The question is whether Frank is a good enough coach to miraculously turn that crap show around in a single season and flip that record around to be in the conversation of an NIT bid.

It depends on what sliding scale you use to tolerate his "Frankness".  Does an NIT bid warrant the new AD putting up with the ranting and raving?  Or would it need to be an NCAA bid?  What level of sustained success does he need to have to keep his job year over year?

I think Frank puts himself in a tough situation with his style.  You obviously tolerate it if you win at the level he did here, but even then, it puts strain on the AD because he's acting as a firewall to old money tucks who want Frank to clean it up.  At what line of success does he cross from being an angry coach to an eccentric goofball?  And does that translate from job to job?

I agree with folks that if he misses the NIT next year, he's done.  But if he were more oscar like, and didn't rock the boat, he'd get four years instead of three because he's not causing problems other than losing.

[Rage Against the McKee]

If Chetkadorkus refuses to play in the NIT next year, will Frank lose his job?

[Belvis Noland]

I agree with folks that if he misses the NIT next year, he's done.  But if he were more oscar like, and didn't rock the boat, he'd get four years instead of three because he's not causing problems other than losing.

this.

[michigancat]

I mean he'd almost definitely still be our coach if he had oscar's demeanor.

[Trim]

[pissclams]

I mean he'd almost definitely still be our coach if he had oscar's demeanor.

speaking of sarcasm being out of control, you need to check yourself before you find yourself in timeout. 

[michigancat]

I mean he'd almost definitely still be our coach if he had oscar's demeanor.

speaking of sarcasm being out of control, you need to check yourself before you find yourself in timeout.

eff off, bad person.

[AbeFroman]

I mean he'd almost definitely still be our coach if he had oscar's demeanor.

oscar would have thrown Jamar under the bus so hard

[michigancat]

I mean he'd almost definitely still be our coach if he had oscar's demeanor.

oscar would have thrown Jamar under the bus so hard

Jamar would have played

[slimz]

However, King pointed out that Bill limits his vulgarity to practice.

This is absolutely not true. I and many other parents on here have the foul-mouthed 4-year-olds that are evidence of this. Thanks for the great example for our kids, Bill!

 

[massofcatfan]

Frank is "terrifying?"   

"ever been in his physical presence? I was ONCE and I didn't want to get any closer than 15 feet. he's TERRIFYING! he's THAT WIDE. he was a BOUNCER. he has a DEMONIC STARE. he is a TOTALLY TERRIFYING human being. I'll just tell you. wow. wooh (shudder)."   

[Benja]

Has any other fanbase anger-cooked a rough ridin' pizza?

Pffftt 

[The Whale]

bad person should have answered the rough ridin' question.

bad person obviously didn't have his stats straight.

[Sandstone Outcropping]

bad person should have answered the rough ridin' question.

bad person obviously didn't have his stats straight.

What is LemonChex doing there??? 

[MakeItRain]

I don't see much evidence of USC getting better.  Frank started off 10-3 in his first nonconference season.  Since then, his record is utterly abysmal: 15-34 (.306).  And he lost to South Carolina Upstate in this year's noncon, which I would guess is accepted by the USC alums as something like us losing to UMKC.

His biggest win (by far) happened only six days ago, against #17 UK, but at this point that looks like it might be a TCU over KU situation rather than a trend.

I made it pretty clear I was referring to the level of players they are putting on the floor. I think to make a judgment, with any value, on their improvement you need to go beyond checking the record on espn.com.

[SdK]

I don't see much evidence of USC getting better.  Frank started off 10-3 in his first nonconference season.  Since then, his record is utterly abysmal: 15-34 (.306).  And he lost to South Carolina Upstate in this year's noncon, which I would guess is accepted by the USC alums as something like us losing to UMKC.

His biggest win (by far) happened only six days ago, against #17 UK, but at this point that looks like it might be a TCU over KU situation rather than a trend.

I made it pretty clear I was referring to the level of players they are putting on the floor. I think to make a judgment, with any value, on their improvement you need to go beyond checking the record on espn.com.

Sounds like you copy and pasted a KU fan's defense of the football team. 

[Co-ckhornleghorn]

I knew the good people of Go Emaw would be talking about Frank. I'm a big Frank supporter, but I think he crossed the line. If that happened in practice, it would be a bit much, but there wouldn't have been donors calling the AD. Basketball is supported heavily at USC when we're decent. The last time we went to the NCAA's we averaged over 17,000 a game for SEC games, so there are certainly plenty of people that support decent basketball. Even in this abysmal season, we've had several crowds over 14,000 and we're 4-13 in the conference. FYI, basketball is clearly the 2nd sport at USC, even though the baseball team has been highly successful. WBB is moving up very quickly, too, as we were 10th in the country in attendance this season. I think Frank will survive this episode, but it's time to see improvement in wins and temper next season. Good luck the rest of the season.

[Tobias]

it's time to see improvement in wins and temper next season

only one of these is a variable, and i too hope it gets better next season 

[gatoveintisiete]

I don't see much evidence of USC getting better.  Frank started off 10-3 in his first nonconference season.  Since then, his record is utterly abysmal: 15-34 (.306).  And he lost to South Carolina Upstate in this year's noncon, which I would guess is accepted by the USC alums as something like us losing to UMKC.

His biggest win (by far) happened only six days ago, against #17 UK, but at this point that looks like it might be a TCU over KU situation rather than a trend.

I made it pretty clear I was referring to the level of players they are putting on the floor. I think to make a judgment, with any value, on their improvement you need to go beyond checking the record on espn.com.

I think you let your passion for argueing push you into corners you can't defend.  You are a smart
guy who really knows his crap, but sometimes.........

Ps this is not about your current argument about Frank being any good.  Although he isn't.

[kim carnes]

I knew the good people of Go Emaw would be talking about Frank. I'm a big Frank supporter, but I think he crossed the line. If that happened in practice, it would be a bit much, but there wouldn't have been donors calling the AD. Basketball is supported heavily at USC when we're decent. The last time we went to the NCAA's we averaged over 17,000 a game for SEC games, so there are certainly plenty of people that support decent basketball. Even in this abysmal season, we've had several crowds over 14,000 and we're 4-13 in the conference. FYI, basketball is clearly the 2nd sport at USC, even though the baseball team has been highly successful. WBB is moving up very quickly, too, as we were 10th in the country in attendance this season. I think Frank will survive this episode, but it's time to see improvement in wins and temper next season. Good luck the rest of the season.

look at this dumbass