goemaw.com
TITLETOWN - A Decade Long Celebration Of The Greatest Achievement In College Athletics History => Kansas State Football => Topic started by: steve dave on January 02, 2018, 09:12:20 AM
-
It really is far superior to all other conferences
-
In the number of football players arrested, sure.
-
Most games played/won in the south-east region of America. Also true.
-
Alabama is the ridiculous outlier, not the conference as a whole.
-
The ESPN of sports conferences
-
The top level of college football is getting more and more like the NFL, which is to say, boring. :frown:
-
The top level of college football is getting more and more like the NFL, which is to say, boring. :frown:
I thought the rose bowl was quite entertaining
-
Alabama is the ridiculous outlier, not the conference as a whole.
They have had 5 different teams win the natty in the last decade bruh
-
The top level of college football is getting more and more like the NFL, which is to say, boring. :frown:
I thought the rose bowl was quite entertaining
Yes, because it's like the opposite of the SEC/Saban football.
-
Alabama is the ridiculous outlier, not the conference as a whole.
They have had 5 different teams win the natty in the last decade bruh
1) That isn't true
2) They've had one team win it since 2010.
Sure they were the best conference from 2006-2011 or whatever. Now they are a normal conference + Alabama.
-
Alabama is the ridiculous outlier, not the conference as a whole.
Last time I checked Alabama, Florida, LSU , Auburn,
They have had 5 different teams win the natty in the last decade bruh
1) That isn't true
2) They've had one team win it since 2010.
Sure they were the best conference from 2006-2011 or whatever. Now they are a normal conference + Alabama.
Ok it's only 4 which is more than every other conference combined in the same time frame.
-
Alabama is like an NFL team that managed to trade for almost all the other teams' first round picks.
-
one of their crappiest teams whipped our ass this year. they are great. and they deserve another round of the SEC championship as the national championship.
-
Ok it's only 4 which is more than every other conference combined in the same time frame.
The last ten years isn't particularly relevant to how good the SEC is this year. The past 5 years, ACC has more championships than SEC. Only Bama has won it in the last 5. Georgia certainly could win it but OU looked just as good as they are.
The SEC is definitely the best conference over the last ten years but I haven't seen anybody other than Bama in that conference perform so much better than the teams in the B12, B10, or ACC in the last 5.
-
Chicat, best conference, who ya got?
-
every time I hear them chanting "S-E-C...S-E-C..." I go
(https://media.giphy.com/media/9t6xpYZ9npJmM/giphy.gif)
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
-
Chicat, best conference, who ya got?
The SEC but only because they are essentially the B12, B10, or ACC plus Bama. I just don't get glorifying the conference as whole as better than the rest when its a single team as an outlier that is causing it. Its not like Georgia just beat the crap out of OU.
-
you always hear about SEC speed but I think SEC depth is just a big of an advantage for them.
-
The tippy top of the SEC is very very good. But it's only slightly better than the tippy top of other conferences.
Teams 3-14 are about on par with other conferences.
-
having 14 teams and not having any of them be truly truly awful dogshit is also a difference the SEC has over the other P5s.
Kansas, Baylor, Oregon State, Illinois, and North Carolina are all worse than the SEC's worst team (Tennessee), who still managed to beat two halfway decent noncon opponents (georgia tech & southern miss)
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
The SEC has to punch up in all of it's bowl match ups.
SEC #1 v Big 12 #1
SEC #2 v AAC #1
SEC #3 v ACC #1
SEC #4 v highest ranked Independent
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
The SEC has to punch up in all of it's bowl match ups.
SEC #1 v Big 12 #1
SEC #2 v AAC #1
SEC #3 v ACC #1
SEC #4 v highest ranked Independent
Yea, those were the games they made up ground. As stated before the very top is very good. Now do the rest of the conference that sucked it up this bowl season.
-
If you look at the best coaches thread it's pretty clear the PAC 12 and BIG 10 are poised to dominate the rest of college football for the foreseeable future.
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
The SEC has to punch up in all of it's bowl match ups.
SEC #1 v Big 12 #1
SEC #2 v AAC #1
SEC #3 v ACC #1
SEC #4 v highest ranked Independent
whats that now? how is the runner up in a major conference swinging up on a p6 team?
-
the SEC is the best and deepest, and i will continue to make fun of their stupid southern asses at every chance i get.
also, chanting your conference at the end of a game you win has always seemed very, very, very weird to me.
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
The SEC has to punch up in all of it's bowl match ups.
SEC #1 v Big 12 #1
SEC #2 v AAC #1
SEC #3 v ACC #1
SEC #4 v highest ranked Independent
Yea, I wasn't going to make the bowl point. Getting two into the playoff throws the matchups off. B10 and P12 had the opportunity to look good in bowls because their best teams weren't playing the best of other conferences. The B10 showed that it is probably just as good as the rest and the P12 showed that it is, in fact, hot garbage.
-
Well they were 1-5 in bowl play going into yesterday’s games. But their top two teams did help make them a respectable(?) 4-5. So yea, SEC rules.
The SEC has to punch up in all of it's bowl match ups.
SEC #1 v Big 12 #1
SEC #2 v AAC #1
SEC #3 v ACC #1
SEC #4 v highest ranked Independent
Yea, those were the games they made up ground. As stated before the very top is very good. Now do the rest of the conference that sucked it up this bowl season.
Im not going to go through that much work, but Mizzou was the #9 playing Texas who was #5.
-
Puts both pretty close to the middle of their conferences. I mean, if we're really going to parse out whether losing SEC teams were playing conference opponents 1-2 relative spots higher in their conferences, then maybe that just means there's not much of a gap in conference strength?
-
Did anybody catch that Auburn dude who looked like duck dynasty who threw in a huge lip before the 11 am game? The camera was on him as he loaded his mouth with a full horeshoe. His wife an infant sitting next to him.
He is a hero
-
Puts both pretty close to the middle of their conferences. I mean, if we're really going to parse out whether losing SEC teams were playing conference opponents 1-2 relative spots higher in their conferences, then maybe that just means there's not much of a gap in conference strength?
When you think about it, other than having both of the teams playing in the national championship game and playing every bowl matchup against a team who finished higher in its conference, and not having any true garbage teams at the bottom of the conference, the SEC is pretty much just like every other conference.
-
Between Saban and Meyer (and a few flash in the pan seasons for others) the SEC has consistently produced championship level teams, but I'm not buying into the "oh look we're playing for the National Title" talking point until the pool is broader than it has been.
Even if you go more extreme than the point I am making and assume the Big 12/SEC/ACC are relatively equal, there was already a 25% chance of an all-SEC championship just because of how the deck was stacked. Take into account the widely-held presumption that Alabama may have the greatest CFB coach of all time (which I won't dispute) and it was really probably closer to a 40% chance.
Before the playoffs, the SEC in recent history consistently had at least a 50% chance of winning it all (in large part thanks to votes cast). In the 4-team format (also based on selection) they have always had at least a 25% chance. Notice that their title percentage seems to have declined at that point.
-
Between Saban and Meyer (and a few flash in the pan seasons for others) the SEC has consistently produced championship level teams, but I'm not buying into the "oh look we're playing for the National Title" talking point until the pool is broader than it has been.
Even if you go more extreme than the point I am making and assume the Big 12/SEC/ACC are relatively equal, there was already a 25% chance of an all-SEC championship just because of how the deck was stacked. Take into account the widely-held presumption that Alabama may have the greatest CFB coach of all time (which I won't dispute) and it was really probably closer to a 40% chance.
Before the playoffs, the SEC in recent history consistently had at least a 50% chance of winning it all (in large part thanks to votes cast). In the 4-team format (also based on selection) they have always had at least a 25% chance. Notice that their title percentage seems to have declined at that point.
How do you rationalize away the fact that 20% of the Big 12 was FCS caliber? We've established that the top of the SEC is far superior to the top of any other conference with both playing in the NCG. How about the bottom? Well, the bottom 20% of the SEC (Arkansas, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt) went 4-8, 4-8, and 5-7 with wins against KSU, Georgia Tech, and Ole Miss. Any one of those teams would be double digit favorites over Kansas or Baylor.
I just don't understand how you can say that the Big 12 is relatively equal to the SEC when the SEC is clearly superior at the top and clearly superior at the bottom. I certainly don't see much difference between the middle of the conferences (Oklahoma State through Tech vs Auburn through Mizzou), so what am I missing? I get that it's trendy to crap on the SEC, but it's just as lame as the people who pound their chests over the SEC's greatness. The SEC isn't way ahead of the Big 12, but it's clearly better.
-
updated to include bowl games
FBS noncon-only W-L-%:
1. b10 36-11 (.766)
2. sec 36-15 (.706)
3. b12 19-11 (.633)
4. acc 30-21 (.588)
5. p12 20-16 (.556)
p5+Notre Dame noncon-only W-L-%
1. b10 14-7 (.667)
2. b12 8-7 (.533)
3. sec 11-13 (.458)
4. p12 7-10 (.412)
5. acc 11-18 (.379)
-
b12 vs p5 breakdown
wins
oklahoma @ #3 ohio state
tcu @ #92 arkansas
oklahoma state @ #89 pittsburgh
texas tech vs #54 arizona state
kansas state vs #55 ucla
texas vs #45 missouri
tcu vs #20 stanford
oklahoma state vs #42 virginia tech
losses
texas vs #87 maryland
west virginia vs #42 virginia tech
iowa state vs #28 iowa
baylor vs #67 duke
kansas state @ #78 vanderbilt
texas @ #17 usc
oklahoma vs #2 georgia
-
OT: how did kansas get away with not playing a p5? i thought that was mandatory for b12 teams?
-
It's not
-
was it ever or did i make that up
-
http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/14321459/big-12-schools-required-schedule-game-power-5-team-notre-dame-fighting-irish-going-forward (http://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/14321459/big-12-schools-required-schedule-game-power-5-team-notre-dame-fighting-irish-going-forward)
:dunno:
-
their schedule was already set then
-
They have Rutgers on next year's schedule.
Boston College home and home in '19 and '20.
-
every time I hear them chanting "S-E-C...S-E-C..." I go
(https://media.giphy.com/media/9t6xpYZ9npJmM/giphy.gif)
Top-shelf posting right here fellas.
-
[lots of other words] The SEC isn't way ahead of the Big 12, but it's clearly better.
I don’t really have any issues with this statement. If I had to rank the P5 conferences I would not hesitate to put SEC at the top and Pac 12 at the bottom. Big 10, Big 12, and ACC are a bit tougher to clearly differentiate.
My main point is we have such little good data to asses relative strengths among conferences. You could argue the Big 12 defectors are the best measure we have relative to the Big 12, but even that has been all over the place.
In either case, if the question is whether a conference is overhyped, National title appearances are one of the worst benchmarks IMO.
-
[lots of other words] The SEC isn't way ahead of the Big 12, but it's clearly better.
I don’t really have any issues with this statement. If I had to rank the P5 conferences I would not hesitate to put SEC at the top and Pac 12 at the bottom. Big 10, Big 12, and ACC are a bit tougher to clearly differentiate.
My main point is we have such little good data to asses relative strengths among conferences. You could argue the Big 12 defectors are the best measure we have relative to the Big 12, but even that has been all over the place.
In either case, if the question is whether a conference is overhyped, National title appearances are one of the worst benchmarks IMO.
National title appearances? Maybe, but when you put it into context, it certainly paints a clearer picture.
In the past 12 seasons, the SEC has had 13 NCG appearances.
5 different SEC schools have played in the NCG in the past 10 seasons (including this season).
5 different SEC schools have won national titles in the past 20 seasons, and GA is playing to become the sixth.
The idea that the SEC is Bama and everyone else doesn't hold water. Obviously Bama is on another level, but even if you take away Alabama, no conference has won more hardware. It's a bad benchmark if it's a single team carrying the water, but that really isn't the case.
-
OT trivia:
MadCat’s cousin taught science and coached baseball in Bainbridge, GA for two years where Kirby Smart was in his class/team.
-
[lots of other words] The SEC isn't way ahead of the Big 12, but it's clearly better.
I don’t really have any issues with this statement. If I had to rank the P5 conferences I would not hesitate to put SEC at the top and Pac 12 at the bottom. Big 10, Big 12, and ACC are a bit tougher to clearly differentiate.
My main point is we have such little good data to asses relative strengths among conferences. You could argue the Big 12 defectors are the best measure we have relative to the Big 12, but even that has been all over the place.
In either case, if the question is whether a conference is overhyped, National title appearances are one of the worst benchmarks IMO.
National title appearances? Maybe, but when you put it into context, it certainly paints a clearer picture.
In the past 12 seasons, the SEC has had 13 NCG appearances.
5 different SEC schools have played in the NCG in the past 10 seasons (including this season).
5 different SEC schools have won national titles in the past 20 seasons, and GA is playing to become the sixth.
The idea that the SEC is Bama and everyone else doesn't hold water. Obviously Bama is on another level, but even if you take away Alabama, no conference has won more hardware. It's a bad benchmark if it's a single team carrying the water, but that really isn't the case.
I’m not saying the rest of the conference is garbage, just that it’s a normal conference. I think if you added Bama to the B12, ACC, or B10 then they would be considered the best conference.
To be fair, I’m arguing that you can take away their best team and they are still as good as any other conference. If the B12 lost OU, B10 lost OSU or ACC lost Clemson, they all become this year’s P12 which was terrible.