Football Recruiting Thread

[MakeItRain]

I haven't dug into it yet but I know they have Jeremy Crabtree and he's the bees knees.

[wetwillie]

Welp, looks like the numbers* show we're currently bringing in the worst P5 recruiting class in the country.

(Next to last if we get to count BYU!)

*Worst average rating. Ranking is higher than a few schools currently, but many of those have close to half the commits/signees to go after more before late signing day*

If you are looking at Rivals it’s worthless.  247 composite is really the only service even trying anymore.  It has us at 56 which is currently better than 12 other P5’s.  We aren’t killing it by any means but we aren’t dead last.

I do like their "overall rankings" which calculate transfers as well, which should be more of a thing in the future with the amount of movement (and I believe transfer count towards that class number)

what's peoples thoughts on the on3 service? Seems like they are trying very hard to be new age and i'm not sure what to think of it.

https://twitter.com/ShannonTerry/status/1471118107397836801

They stole all the good rivals people and put Jeremy Crabtree in charge.

[Shooter Jones]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

[michigancat]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

that is pretty wild! I'm guessing we've won SOME battles with them over time though

[MakeItRain]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

It's terrible, for sure. I'm definitely not going to be the one to make excuses for them. Do they have the wrong people, not large enough of a recruitment staff, both? It may not be popular but any inspection of the recruitment results have to start with Braet, right?

[michigancat]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

It's terrible, for sure. I'm definitely not going to be the one to make excuses for them. Do they have the wrong people, not large enough of a recruitment staff, both? It may not be popular but any inspection of the recruitment results have to start with Braet, right?

Is it really on Braet? He seems more of a gatekeeper/first contact which seems to be going OK. I think it's pretty safe to say they are very good at evaluation overall, but the staff just can't seem to close very well. And TBH it doesn't make much sense. Sales is sales just like football is football

[wetwillie]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

that is pretty wild! I'm guessing we've won SOME battles with them over time though

Not a single head to head battle against ISU has been won by FH in his time here.

[Rage Against the McKee]

It probably doesn't help that he keeps getting blown out by ISU.

[michigancat]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

that is pretty wild! I'm guessing we've won SOME battles with them over time though

Not a single head to head battle against ISU has been won by FH in his time here.

Does RJ Garcia not count or were you joking?

[Shooter Jones]

It's terrible, for sure. I'm definitely not going to be the one to make excuses for them. Do they have the wrong people, not large enough of a recruitment staff, both? It may not be popular but any inspection of the recruitment results have to start with Braet, right?

Is it really on Braet? He seems more of a gatekeeper/first contact which seems to be going OK. I think it's pretty safe to say they are very good at evaluation overall, but the staff just can't seem to close very well. And TBH it doesn't make much sense. Sales is sales just like football is football

Completely agree. I like the evaluation. Invest more, utilize as many resources as possible, and bring in more staff. I think we start hanging onto these guys we're in on early.

If you invest and don't see improvement, you absolutely look at going a different direction with Braet.

[420seriouscat69]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

[Shooter Jones]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

[wetwillie]

People are getting angry about someone saying we’re last and validating it by saying we’re next to last or 2nd to last. My god. (12th out of 14 or 10th out of 12)

This staff can evaluate talent, that’s the only thing holding out hope for me. They can’t seal the deal on anything if another P5 program gets involved, though. 

And now we sit around and wait for us to snag a QB that can take us from 3 to 6 wins.

This is the most disturbing part of recruiting.  Cats easily have the worst recruiting staff in P5 and you had better be just an absolute monster at the X's and O's to overcome losing every head to head battle you ever get in.

Not to correct shooter again, but you highlighted it and then doubled down, but five of the 12 high school players signed today had multiple P5 offers. Klemm and Payne have ridiculous offer sheets. We beat Arkansas among about a dozen other P5 schools for Payne. We beat Nebraska for three recruits, Arizona State for two.

Again, the recruitment needs to be better, but y'all are going to unnecessary extremes to make that point.

I mean, if we're talking just offers, we lost 12 head-to-head offers to Iowa St.... Not one, not 2, but 12... And we did not get a single one. On players we both offered, they got 12 of them and we got 0. Think about that. That's absolutely insane.

that is pretty wild! I'm guessing we've won SOME battles with them over time though

Not a single head to head battle against ISU has been won by FH in his time here.

Does RJ Garcia not count or were you joking?

He didn’t have a committable offer to Iowa State

[Cire]

Portal is the new juco

if you can be great at it, it's part of the game, so far kli and co have been pretty good.

[420seriouscat69]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

Here you go:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-recruiting-2021-Athletic-Director-U-college-football-recruiting-costs-2019-173874572/

[Shooter Jones]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

Here you go:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-recruiting-2021-Athletic-Director-U-college-football-recruiting-costs-2019-173874572/

(Dollars spent on recruiting at start of fiscal year out of 51 Power Five programs featured in article / Recruiting finish according to 247 Sports)

    2005: 46th / 35th
    2006: 3rd / 41st -- Prince
    2007: 3rd / 35th
    2008: 1st / 36th
    2009: 10th / 70th -- Snyder
    2010: Between 11th & 40th / 76th
    2011: Between 11th & 40th / 51st
    2012: Between 11th & 40th / 73rd
    2013: Between 11th & 40th / 64th
    2014: Between 11th & 40th / 49th
    2015: 48th / 54th
    2016: 48th / 72nd
    2017: 49th / 61st
    2018: 49th / 66th
    2019: Between 11th & 40th / 63rd -- Klieman
    2020: Between 11th & 40th / 52nd
    2021: Unknown / 56th
    2022: Unknown / 63rd

*2022 class remains in progress

[MakeItRain]

https://twitter.com/JoeLHall33/status/1471208762929074177

[Cire]

https://twitter.com/JoeLHall33/status/1471208762929074177

PWO


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Shooter Jones]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

Here you go:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-recruiting-2021-Athletic-Director-U-college-football-recruiting-costs-2019-173874572/

(Dollars spent on recruiting at start of fiscal year out of 51 Power Five programs featured in article / Recruiting finish according to 247 Sports)

    2005: 46th / 35th
    2006: 3rd / 41st -- Prince
    2007: 3rd / 35th
    2008: 1st / 36th
    2009: 10th / 70th -- Snyder
    2010: Between 11th & 40th / 76th
    2011: Between 11th & 40th / 51st
    2012: Between 11th & 40th / 73rd
    2013: Between 11th & 40th / 64th
    2014: Between 11th & 40th / 49th
    2015: 48th / 54th
    2016: 48th / 72nd
    2017: 49th / 61st
    2018: 49th / 66th
    2019: Between 11th & 40th / 63rd -- Klieman
    2020: Between 11th & 40th / 52nd
    2021: Unknown / 56th
    2022: Unknown / 63rd

*2022 class remains in progress

It just hit me. That article claims we were top 10 in spending 4 years in a row from 07-10, and spent the most money in the country on the 2008 class. Well, those are classes that went on to make a Cotton Bowl and Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Now I will forever claim we need to SPEND MORE MONEY.

[KCFDcat]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

Here you go:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-recruiting-2021-Athletic-Director-U-college-football-recruiting-costs-2019-173874572/

(Dollars spent on recruiting at start of fiscal year out of 51 Power Five programs featured in article / Recruiting finish according to 247 Sports)

    2005: 46th / 35th
    2006: 3rd / 41st -- Prince
    2007: 3rd / 35th
    2008: 1st / 36th
    2009: 10th / 70th -- Snyder
    2010: Between 11th & 40th / 76th
    2011: Between 11th & 40th / 51st
    2012: Between 11th & 40th / 73rd
    2013: Between 11th & 40th / 64th
    2014: Between 11th & 40th / 49th
    2015: 48th / 54th
    2016: 48th / 72nd
    2017: 49th / 61st
    2018: 49th / 66th
    2019: Between 11th & 40th / 63rd -- Klieman
    2020: Between 11th & 40th / 52nd
    2021: Unknown / 56th
    2022: Unknown / 63rd

*2022 class remains in progress

It just hit me. That article claims we were top 10 in spending 4 years in a row from 07-10, and spent the most money in the country on the 2008 class. Well, those are classes that went on to make a Cotton Bowl and Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Now I will forever claim we need to SPEND MORE MONEY.

Really glad the 1/4 billion dollars we spent on facilities has netted us *checks notes* bottom 5% of P5 in recruiting.

[MakeItRain]

We've invested at an all time high under Klieman. They literally had an article about it this year.So the investing part isn't the issue. I think he's going to kick ass in the transfer portal again, so i'm not worried about recruting and I always get a good laugh out of the people who do.

You should have a new all time high every year or you're falling behind. Either way, I'd like to read the article if you could post it, please. Would be greatly appreciated.

Here you go:

https://247sports.com/college/kansas-state/Article/Kansas-State-football-recruiting-2021-Athletic-Director-U-college-football-recruiting-costs-2019-173874572/

(Dollars spent on recruiting at start of fiscal year out of 51 Power Five programs featured in article / Recruiting finish according to 247 Sports)

    2005: 46th / 35th
    2006: 3rd / 41st -- Prince
    2007: 3rd / 35th
    2008: 1st / 36th
    2009: 10th / 70th -- Snyder
    2010: Between 11th & 40th / 76th
    2011: Between 11th & 40th / 51st
    2012: Between 11th & 40th / 73rd
    2013: Between 11th & 40th / 64th
    2014: Between 11th & 40th / 49th
    2015: 48th / 54th
    2016: 48th / 72nd
    2017: 49th / 61st
    2018: 49th / 66th
    2019: Between 11th & 40th / 63rd -- Klieman
    2020: Between 11th & 40th / 52nd
    2021: Unknown / 56th
    2022: Unknown / 63rd

*2022 class remains in progress

It just hit me. That article claims we were top 10 in spending 4 years in a row from 07-10, and spent the most money in the country on the 2008 class. Well, those are classes that went on to make a Cotton Bowl and Fiesta Bowl appearance.

Now I will forever claim we need to SPEND MORE MONEY.

Context. Here are those class rankings
2007-  38
2008- 27
2009- 92
2010- 63
About that '08 class, there were 4 four star recruits, all of them were juco transfers. The current staff has done a very good job with transfers, I don't know that it's fair to hold the 2008 class up to something this staff can't do just because rivals rated juco players but they don't now score NCAA transfers. Those four players by the way were Daniel Thomas, Aubrey Quarles, Ulla Pomele, and Daniel Calvin. One stud, one solid contributor, one guy who played but didn't produce, and one who did nothing.

I'm guessing they didn't need to spend all that money to get Brandon Banks, DT, and Collin Klein.


More context, we spent a ton of money in that era because, if you recall, Prince did a ton of gray shirts so those first two classes had 33 and 34 signees. I wonder what the figure per signee was.

[catastrophe]

Serious question from a guy with low recruiting IQ. Who was the last guy we recruited as a HS stud and actually turned into a college stud?

[outofstate]

Recruiting takes some clout that this staff hasn't quite built up yet. Snyder 2.0 didn't go on visits and wouldn't allow coaches to recruit during the season. Plus you can be sure other teams used his age as a tool to recruit against the cats. That's why when CK took over depth and talent was an issue. This staff is still overcoming that. Winning certainly helps. Losing to ISU 3 out of 4 years does not.  Prince was a dumpster fire with burnt bridges and JUCO's.

CK's first class was a scramble to put together. There have been a lot of transfers from that class. Duke and Beebe are probably the gems of that first class. It's going to take time to build depth particularly at a program that would be considered a developmental program. It's rare for K-State to have a Deuce Vaughn that comes in and plays as freshmen, was even the case with Snyder. This staff has done a pretty good evaluation of some of the under the radar players (Vaughn, Felix to name a few, and I think Kanak's first big offer was KSU). QB wise I think is where a lot to be desired. Lewis and Howard not ready or capable of being a D1 QB. Who knows with Rubley.

As far as staff goes, Braet is the director of recruiting and according to the website there are 4 support staff that have recruiting in their title. Not sure if that is all or how that compares as not all schools list support staff but I have heard some of the larger programs have significantly more than that. Would be nice if K-State's budget were more in this area as well as for assistants in general. They have repeatedly said that if they can get players on campus they have the best chance of landing these guys. That is the facilities and the investments that have been made. Covid hurt that. And yes I know every school had that problem, but K-State doesn't have the brand that some of the schools we compete with for players do. Like it or not ISU has a better brand right now with Campbell being a hot name. And certainly head to head when we compete for players the record lately is on their favor. But even they have their issues as has been discussed on this board regarding transfers.

[outofstate]

https://twitter.com/JoeLHall33/status/1471648210510696448

[420seriouscat69]

Serious question from a guy with low recruiting IQ. Who was the last guy we recruited as a HS stud and actually turned into a college stud?

Probably Duke Shelley.