Author Topic: Game of Thrones SHOW thread for people who are confused by the book thread  (Read 369691 times)

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Offline Mr Bread

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom.  Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline nicname

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Hey how about all that talking guys? I thought the talking was really well done in this episode.

OK, but seriously Dany kicked Jorah to the curb!

Huge mistake and character flaw on her part. He'll redeem himself. She better show humility when he does, or she's a lost cause.

How is that a character flaw on Dany's part? She just found out that her most trusted advisor was once a spy. If anything, her character flaw was not ending Jorah's throat.

She's supposed to be a queen. She's supposed to use reason and mercy, use a little empathy. Jorah may have started out as a spy for Varys, but he didn't know her at that point. He's done nothing but support her for the longest time and also swore fealty to her. Out of all Daenerys' advisors, Jorah is the most trustworthy despite being a former spy. That's the rub.

It's true that she did show some restraint by not killing him instantly as she'd done so many times, but that's only a slight improvement to her black/ white line of thought when it comes to most situations.

She showed a lot of restraint by not killing him. He probably caused the death of her child because Varys/Tywin probably sent that witch lady who "cursed" her child. And then almost caused her death with that poisoned wine.

Yeah, it's only hurting her in the end because it had Tywin's intended consequence of removing her adviser from her, but can you really blame her?

You've read the books (AFAIK), so you may actually know these things, but I feel like that is grasping. He was loyal to her, for the most part, before he got his pardon, and completely loyal after.

To put it succinctly, despite the wrongs he's done to her, he's done right by her more than anyone else has.
« Last Edit: June 03, 2014, 04:58:39 PM by nicname »
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Mr Bread

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No way Varys could have known that Khal Drogo would have been cut in a fight and have a festering wound. That his a huge stretch.

Varys and Illyrio specifically schemed to get Dany married to Drogo so they could use his massive army to put a Targ back on the Iron Throne.  They definitely did not want him killed.  This was all stated pretty clearly when Arya was down in the tunnels under the red keep in KL and overheard them in season one. 
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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom.  Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

I was trying to remember if they showed who was talking in s1. That scene is somewhat glossed over in the show I think (don't really remember)
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Offline mocat

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Arya saw Illyrio and Varys talking when she was hiding in that giant dragon skull. You can tell by the voices who they are.

Offline Benja

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 :sdeek:

Offline mocat

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Offline puniraptor

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Offline Mr Bread

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom.  Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

I was trying to remember if they showed who was talking in s1. That scene is somewhat glossed over in the show I think (don't really remember)



They were right on the screen for all to see.  Arya didn't know them, but we did/do. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Benja

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 :D

Offline Mr Bread

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It's things like that that make me not hate humanity.  Just wonderful.  Good for everybody. 
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Offline mocat

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i bet the cast has a game they all play called "try not to hump Pedro today" and also i bet nobody ever wins that game

Offline nicname

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i bet the cast has a game they all play called "try not to hump Pedro today" and also i bet nobody ever wins that game

Cargo shorts.
If there was a gif of nicname thwarting the attempted-flag-taker and then gesturing him to suck it, followed by motioning for all of Hilton Shelter to boo him louder, it'd be better than that auburn gif.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom. Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

And still that guy almost killed Dany with the wine.

Offline Mrs. Gooch

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No way Varys could have known that Khal Drogo would have been cut in a fight and have a festering wound. That his a huge stretch.

I'm not saying that Varys had anything to do with Drogo's death, I'm saying that maybe possibly what if Mirri Maz Duur just used that whole fetus' death in exchange for Drogo living as a cover for what she was already planning to do which was kill the fetus.

Or maybe Dany just blames Jorah for the death of her child even if it really is not connected to anyone in Westeros at all and so she really just wants him out of her sight and out of her city right now because she hates him right now and can't stand to look at his face, ok??

Offline joda

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The portrayal of Dany kicking Jorah to the curb comes out a little rough in the show. Especially 1 epi after the whole people change scene between them.

Offline Mr Bread

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom. Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

And still that guy almost killed Dany with the wine.

Manipulation, good grief Mrs. Gooch.  From the show wiki:

Quote
Daenerys tries to convince Drogo to invade so their son might claim the Iron Throne, but the Dothraki do not trust ships and water their horses cannot drink. Now that Viserys is dead, Drogo does not feel inclined to honor the bargain. A wineseller attempts to poison Daenerys to fulfill Robert's orders. She is rescued by Ser Jorah and Rakharo. Following the assassination attempt, Drogo reverses his decision and swears that he will lead his forces across the Narrow Sea and seize the Seven Kingdoms in blood and fire.

Varys used the weak ass poison attempt to get Drogo back on board with the invasion.  He is very good at the Game. 
My prescience is fully engorged.  It throbs with righteous accuracy.  I am sated.

Offline Mr Bread

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No way Varys could have known that Khal Drogo would have been cut in a fight and have a festering wound. That his a huge stretch.

I'm not saying that Varys had anything to do with Drogo's death, I'm saying that maybe possibly what if Mirri Maz Duur just used that whole fetus' death in exchange for Drogo living as a cover for what she was already planning to do which was kill the fetus.

Or maybe Dany just blames Jorah for the death of her child even if it really is not connected to anyone in Westeros at all and so she really just wants him out of her sight and out of her city right now because she hates him right now and can't stand to look at his face, ok??

Mirri Maz Duur hated the rapey, conquering Dothrakis.  They destroyed her village and killed/raped her friends and family and beat and almost raped her and her reprieve was to be one of their slaves.  She did whatever she could to hurt them, pay them back.  Dany merely provided her with the opportunity.  She was not anyone's agent. 

Totally unrelated to Jorah or the Game.  The Dothrakis got Dany's son killed.  You eff with people sometimes you get mumped with. 
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Offline puniraptor

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Mirri Maz Duur hated the rapey, conquering Dothrakis.  They destroyed her village and killed/raped her friends and family and beat and almost raped her and her reprieve was to be one of their slaves.  She did whatever she could to hurt them, pay them back.  Dany merely provided her with the opportunity.  She was not anyone's agent. 

yeah, not sure why anyone doesn't think this is plenty of motive

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom.  Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

I was trying to remember if they showed who was talking in s1. That scene is somewhat glossed over in the show I think (don't really remember)



They were right on the screen for all to see.  Arya didn't know them, but we did/do.

I SAID I DIDN'T REMEMBER, DICKWAD
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Offline Mr Bread

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I was helping you. 
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Offline Asteriskhead

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Varys is pro-Targ in all respects.  He is not bros with Tywin.  Mirri Maz Duur was operating of her own accord.  Bad crap happens unrelated to the Game occassionally imo.  None of this is spoilers btw it's opinion.

Wasn't all of Jorah's info going through Varys?

Exactly.  He controlled what if any info got through and to whom. Also gives him the appearance of always having been on the side on anti-Targ, particularly for the late King Robert who despised them all. 

Plus maybe you're forgetting he is best bros with Illyrio.  Illyrio was Dany's benefactor and also the one who introduced Jora to her and arranged her wedding to Drogo.  All according to he and Varys' plans.  Total control.  Only LF rivals Varys in playing the Game imo. 

Illyrio visited KL to see Varys and scheme in season one iirc.

And still that guy almost killed Dany with the wine.

Manipulation, good grief Mrs. Gooch.  From the show wiki:

Quote
Daenerys tries to convince Drogo to invade so their son might claim the Iron Throne, but the Dothraki do not trust ships and water their horses cannot drink. Now that Viserys is dead, Drogo does not feel inclined to honor the bargain. A wineseller attempts to poison Daenerys to fulfill Robert's orders. She is rescued by Ser Jorah and Rakharo. Following the assassination attempt, Drogo reverses his decision and swears that he will lead his forces across the Narrow Sea and seize the Seven Kingdoms in blood and fire.

Varys used the weak ass poison attempt to get Drogo back on board with the invasion.  He is very good at the Game.

Good job today, Mr. Bread.

FWIW, neither Varys, Illyrio, Jorah or Rakharo are POV characters. For all we know, Jorah and/or Rakharo could have been given details about the assassination attempt.

Offline Mr Bread

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I think Jorah definitely knew.  He stepped in right after he gets the note from one of Varys' little birdies in the show. 

The book makes it seem more obvious that he was tipped off than the show imo.  He leaves to get his Illyrio letter and won't let Dany come with and then comes back out of nowhere and puts a stop to the wine. 

The show kind of makes it appear he might have gotten suspicious of the wine guy prior to stepping in because he's sort of watching from afar prior to stopping it.   

Still Varys is too good to just leave his investment in Dany hanging for fat drunk King Robert to crap on from across the sea.  Not to mention Varys is the one tasked with putting the hit out.  He would know everything about how it was communicated and to who.  More control.     
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Offline Mr Bread

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Important to note that Varys needed an obvious foiled attempt on Dany's life by King Robert and Co.  Public and seen by people Drogo trusted.  It wasn't just about protecting Dany, he needed Drogo insulted, enraged and ready to go to war with the West.     
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Offline TownieCat

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This Castle Black showdown has me pretty excited for 8pm! :woohoo: